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IFH 767: Why Most Screenplays Don't Sell with Brooks Elms · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Huscle Podcast, Episode number seven
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: sixty seven. There's only one plot. Things are not what
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: they seem.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Anonymous broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of the film biz.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise
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  Speaker 2: of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film
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  Speaker 2: into a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before
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  Speaker 2: who prey upon them. The odds are stacked again the
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  Speaker 2: the Film Entrepreneur method will set you up for success.
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  Speaker 2: The book is available in paperback, ebook, and of course audiobook.
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  Speaker 2: If you want to order it, just head over to
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  Speaker 2: www Dot filmbiz book dot com. That's film Bizbook dot com. Well, guys,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: today we have returning champion Brooke Elms Brooks, a script consultant,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: a coach, and a screenwriter in his own right. And
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Brooks and I have a fascinating conversation on why screenplays fail.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: How can screenwriters tap into the flow, that mystical flow
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  Speaker 2: that a lot of the great screenwriters that I've had
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: on the show have talked about, How do you tap
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: into the muse and get inspiration for your writing? And
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: so so much more. I mean, honestly, guys, this is
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  Speaker 2: a fascinating conversation. So without any further ado, please enjoy
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: my conversation with Brooke Elms. I like to welcome back
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: to the show, returning check being Brooke Elms, Heyden Brook.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Good to see you. That interaction reminds
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: me of my favorite interviewer back in the day was
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Charlie Rose. You ever watched Charlie Rose back?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, back before before before the thing.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, before before the thing, and he was great and
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  Speaker 3: you always go and I'm happy to welcome back to
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  Speaker 3: this table. So and so it kind of snapped the.
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  Speaker 2: Returning champions, I would say returning champions. So, but thanks
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  Speaker 2: for coming back on the show man. Last time we
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: were on the show, it was a great success that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Trob really loved what you had to say. And it's
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: been a while since you've been back. So I was like,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you know what, time, let's let's bring them back and
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  Speaker 2: let's talk some shop and see if we can help
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  Speaker 2: some more some more screenwriters and filmmakers out there. So
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  Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna come in hot with the first question, sir,
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  Speaker 2: I like it. Why do most feel? Why did most
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  Speaker 2: screenplays fail?
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  Speaker 3: Oh? I love that question, and yeah, really good question
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  Speaker 3: and loaded in a different way. I would first of
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: all invite you not to think about it binary fail success,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: because what ends up happening when we think about it
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: in binary ways it's kind of freaked out, like success
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  Speaker 3: sounds too big and failure sounds too small. So to me,
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  Speaker 3: it's just process. And the reason why it's not further
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: along is generally people underestimate how long it takes to
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: do trial and error to get it at a point
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  Speaker 3: where it's like blowing people away emotional.
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  Speaker 2: That's where it is exactly because a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: are like, oh I made I wrote the script, that
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  Speaker 2: can sell it. That's a failure, Like it depends on
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  Speaker 2: what you look at if your barometer for success is
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  Speaker 2: a sale, which, don't get me wrong, it is one
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  Speaker 2: of the things we're doing this for. It's like if
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  Speaker 2: you if a tree falls and no one's there to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: hear it kind of vibe. But also like, if I
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  Speaker 2: did the script, how much better am I as a writer?
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  Speaker 2: How much have I gotten to be a better writer?
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  Speaker 2: How do I understand character better? Did I learn how
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: to write dialogue better? These are successes that you have
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: to think about I'll go further. So for sure, development
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  Speaker 2: in my craft that's one part. Uh, just realization of
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: who I am as a human being. That the personal thing,
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  Speaker 2: it's really significant. I mean, like you can just write
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: a journal and memoir and it's fine. But if you
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: understand story sort of structure and process, when you really
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: get into like a theme and a and an arc
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: from vice to virtue, you really surprise yourself about who
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: am I at a deep level. So just the personal
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: growth aspect of it, off the charts valuable. So certainly
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: sharpening your skills, personal growth aspect of it. And even
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: on the business side, script selle wonderful, but new relationships,
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  Speaker 2: Oh we can't do this script because of whatever. But
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  Speaker 2: like here's these other things, right, that's really good. And
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: then just you know, writing samples, it's like, oh, I
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: didn't realize you could write that sort of thing. So
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  Speaker 2: there's all sorts of ben If you're in it for
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  Speaker 2: the long term, there's there's all sorts of benefits. And
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  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times screenwriters fail in general
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  Speaker 2: is because they are always as they're always focused on
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  Speaker 2: the destination and they're not focused on that journey and
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  Speaker 2: writing a script is a journey. Selling the script is
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  Speaker 2: a destination. And if you if you've put all of
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  Speaker 2: your hope and all of your happiness in the sale
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  Speaker 2: or in the destination, you're gonna be miserable in.
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  Speaker 3: This business, Amen, Brotherler, That's exactly it. It's it's it's
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  Speaker 3: that wonderful game where it's interest because everybody kind of
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  Speaker 3: knows that, Yeah, I know, I know, it's it's not
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  Speaker 3: the destination, it's the journey. But like most people most
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: of the time are focused on the destination. And when
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: we can recognize how we do that in our own
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  Speaker 3: process inadvertently or whatever, and just really go oh no, no, no,
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  Speaker 3: just right now in the moment enjoying this for the
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: sake of enjoying it, it really is a game changer.
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  Speaker 3: And then the parox is those milestones come much faster
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  Speaker 3: because it's it's like that time warp thing. It's like
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  Speaker 3: you're working on something like, oh shit, where the time goes?
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's like, oh, because you're in it, you're
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  Speaker 3: in that flow state, and you can we can be
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: in that flow state in the draft after draft process
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  Speaker 3: of writing a screenplay. And here's another way to think
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: about the flip side. There's one of these writers that
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I worked with, you know, good talented writer. He's doing
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: some great you can see he's like, Okay, now I'm done.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: I'm done with this thing. And you can see eagerness
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: to be done, which always almost always means we're really
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: probably not quite there. They're probably more juice to squeeze
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: when we're just like in a place of I loved
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  Speaker 3: writing this draft. I'm ready for feedback, I'm ready for anything.
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  Speaker 3: And then it's like, oh that you know it's done.
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  Speaker 3: You don't mean the energy is different.
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  Speaker 2: And how about the concept of the meuse is something
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  Speaker 2: that so many screenwriters and writers in general, but screenwriters
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  Speaker 2: think about is like I need to wait for the
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Mews to show up. You know, I'm just gonna watch
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Netflix until the Mews shows up. Uh, And that kind
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  Speaker 2: of attitude towards this muse is inspiration from my point
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  Speaker 2: of view and from people I've spoken to at the
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  Speaker 2: highest levels of the business. It's they say, show up
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  Speaker 2: every day and you let the meuse know where you're
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: gonna because if you don't tell the Mews where you're
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: gonna be, she don't know where to go. Brother, you
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  Speaker 2: don't know where to go, So you show up at
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: eight o'clock in the morning to ten o'clock. That's your
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  Speaker 2: writing time. Hey, mewse, I'm gonna be here between eight
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  Speaker 2: and ten, not at three o'clock when I'm in the
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: shower or out at lunch. Eight to ten, that's when
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  Speaker 2: if you're going to show up, please show up there?
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  Speaker 2: Is that what you is that you're feeling as well?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, and yeah, it's a really beautiful question because if
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  Speaker 3: it's this game of how we're playing this game with ourselves, right,
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  Speaker 3: if you genuinely are in the flow, you might need
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: to not show up in that window, right, But most times,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: when you carve out that space and ask the Mews
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  Speaker 3: to meet you there, it is a much better way
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  Speaker 3: of doing it. Because even if you're feeling resistance or
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: fear this or that or the other, when you show up,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: the Mews meets you. I mean, even if you show
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: up to be like I don't want to be here,
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  Speaker 3: I'm scared, blah blah blah, I suck, and then all
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: of a sudden the fassip's going and then all of
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: sudden good ideas come right, that's generally better.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me ask you though, And I love asking
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  Speaker 2: writers this. There are times when I've been writing where,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: especially in my books, when I I'm on a flow
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: state and then I stop and I look, I go,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: who the hell wrote that? This? Is good stuff? Like
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you can't you literally can't recognize the like did I
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: write this? There's that moment And I think every creative
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and a painter as well, and artists and stuff, but
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: generally writers, because it's such a solitary you know, experience
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  Speaker 2: that it happens. And when I've asked that question, there's
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: some big guys they go, I go, does that happen
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: to Like? Yeah, not as often as I like, because
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: it's it's almost like you're being you know, to get
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: woo woo on you. You're channeling something. It's coming through you.
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  Speaker 2: There's some sort of there's some sort of energy going
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: through you. And I always love using the story of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Spielberg where he would he used to say, those ideas
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: float in the ether, and when the idea is time
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: is to come out, it looks for a host to
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: come through. And if I ignore that idea, it's happened
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: to he goes, It's happened to me so many times
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I can't tell you. We'll be right back after a
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: It will go if like, okay, you're it's gonna stay
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: with you for Stephen for seven days. If you don't
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: start acting on it, it's gonna go over to James Cameron.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: And if James Cameron doesn't do anything, because he's an
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: avatar land, he's gonna go over to Chris Nolan and
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: then then it'll just keep jumping to see how this
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: idea is best going to be expressed at this time
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: when it's supposed to come out. So He's like, so
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: when I fold, when I saw the idea of dinosaurs
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: in a park, I jumped on it before anybody else
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: had a chance to do it, because that's an idea
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: that once it was brought into the world, there was
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: no stopping it, and someone was going to grab onto
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that t rex and ride it. And there was probably
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a handful of people in Hollywood who could have done
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna say, in one hand maybe who could
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: have done what Steven did with Jurassic But that is
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: one of those things. So I do believe that as well.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: When the idea is ready that's why we had like
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: asteroid movies, remember Armageddon and Deep Impact, and they all
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: just started showing up like before then nothing zombies. All
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, there's a decade without zombies and then boom,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: can't freaking get rid of them.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: They're everywhere.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Literally no bun dead, but things like that. So what
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: are your thoughts on it?
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I love that, And it's really actually really interesting and
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: subtle because the nature of creativity at that level, and
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: everybody I've worked with that's higher level had there's almost
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: a float to them. They just come in and there's
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: just this spaciousness about the way they are, and not
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: necessarily we were crazy, but just this is openness and
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: lightness to them. Yeah, but it was fascinating to me
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: about the way even you phrased it. You were like,
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: there's that opportunity to be openness and if you don't
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: dump on it, you lose it. So to me, that
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: was an interesting part the way you phrase it, because
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: but like I so I would invite people to say, yes,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: there's an openness, Yes you can sort of just connect
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: to something that's out there, bigger and mysterious and beyond
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: us and don't worry about the window closing. There's an
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: abundance of opportunity, it's going to come back. Just get
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: into the habit of the joy of being open to
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: that stuff and then writing from that place, because you
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: know the nuts and bolts of writing. You know, it
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: helps to have, you know, boxes and stacks in the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: system or whatever. But like, you want to get both.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: You want to have a way to be able to
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: construct a story that's going to have a design element
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: to it that's functional in an engineering sense. And as
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: you sort of build those sandboxes, you have an openness
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: to something bigger than you. So these sand castles almost
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: emerge in the sandboxes feeling like you didn't even write them.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: So it's both those things, I think.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And there was this story I heard about this poet
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and I forgot her name, but it's such a brilliant story.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: She said that she was out in the field and
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: she saw the poem coming. She literally saw it coming
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: towards her, and she had nothing to write down on,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: so she literally was running towards her house as the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: poem was in the ether, she said, and she's like,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna lose it. I'm gonna lose it. She ran in,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: grabbed the pen and paper, and she was so on
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the tail end of it. She started writing the poem backwards,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: so she like literally grabbed the end of the poem
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and drug it back into her and she wrote it
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: backwards first, and then she read just to get it
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: in before she lost it. And I was like, oh
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: my god, isn't that amazing because the visuals, the visuals.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: As a filmmaker, you're just going, oh, you could see it.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: And she literally wrote it backwards and first because it
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: was already out the door. It's kind of like grabbed
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: it by the tail and breat it back in. It
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: was all, it's amazing.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: Well you had me in that anecdote, but it's like
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: she was in a field. I was like, ooh, that
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: sounds good. So yeah, it reminds me of you know,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Paul McCartney woke up one morning one of the greatest
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: songs you know, and was like, who did this song?
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I kind of hummut to people and they're like, yeah,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he was talking about. And it's like, oh, okay,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I guess it's me. And and that's just it. If
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: we tune in, it's almost like you know, like the
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: law of attraction. People talk about it as sort of receiving.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: If I'm receiving mode, you're just kind of like, Okay,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: I'm ready for really good things to come to me.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: It's just it's a different way of a feeling.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I think it, and I think for people listening, you know,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: they might sound a bit woo woo, but I but
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the reason I I I know different is one of
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: my own experience. But also you and I are very
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: unique in the sense that we have worked with and
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: or spoken to people at the highest levels of our business.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: And when you ask these questions, I mean I ask
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: these questions on air and off and the stories that
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I hear, I'm like, oh, if this Oscar winner is
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: looking at it this way, and it's not just the
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: one dude, it's probably like five or ten of these
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: really legendary people that I've spoken to, who are they
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: understand this at a level like a Spielberg like, they
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: understand at a different level. Then there's something there because
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: they're obviously able to do it, And then the key
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: is to be able to learn how to do it
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: again and again, because sometimes it happens once and you
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: never hear from them again. It's there's sometimes that idea
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: comes in and it blows up and it's a one
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: hit wonder. It happens in music all the time. It
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: happens books, it happens in movies, it happens in scripts
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: where they just come in and they're like they never
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: got off the ground again after that, Like it was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: downhill from that point. But the masters understand how to
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: tap into that again and again, almost at will, almost
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: at will.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think what happens. I love this topic
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: is because what were two thoughts there? The first one
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: is this idea of woo woo, which is kind of like,
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: you know, well that's crazy, but like it is crazy.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: But why is it crazy and it's crazy is because
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: we sort of in the sort of traditional education system
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: that we're in. They were kind of telling us what
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: to do, what does spend our tension on? And you
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: have to do this grade. It was all sorts of
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: distraction of stuff that was out of touch with our
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: bodies and what we really felt like. For me, I
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: loved recess, I loved art class, I loved gym, and
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: everything else was like yeah, there you go, yeah, everything else.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I was good at school but I just it drove
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: me crazy because I wasn't fascinating.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: They were prepared. They were preparing you for a factory job.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: That's what school was designed to do. It was prepare
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: you to That's why there's a bell every hour. So
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: they mean they were preparing you to go to a factory.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It's industrially aged system.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: That's right. Dylan said that. Twenty years of schooling and
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: they put you on the day shift, right. So yeah,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: so we were trained to be out of touch with
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: those bigger ideas and impulses. So when you come across
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: somebody that's speaking to that esoteric or stuff that it
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: feels weird or strange or but it's just because you're
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: out of the habit of it. But when you surround
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: yourself with people that are just sort of aware or
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: connected in that way, it becomes as normal as anything else.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: It's just access to sort of more intuitive ideas. It's
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: not that sort of mystifying, right, there's a mystery quality
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: to it, but it's really just a matter of connecting
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: dots in more subtle, more powerful ways. That's the one part.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: The second part about is can you you know for
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: those one hit wonders what's the difference between somebody who
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: had a musician who had a one hit wonder in
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: eighty six, or like you two or Madonna that hit
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: in several different decades. And my theory is it's they
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like this one impulse, one song. They had
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: awareness of how they showed up to the party. So
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, when you were in middle school
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: and you had a circle of friends, and then you
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: were in high school and you had a circle of friends,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: and then in your early twenties you had a circle
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: of friends. If you were able to show up as
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: you and make good friendships in those different circles, you
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: can take that as a transferable skill for you as
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: an independent filmmaker or screenwriter. The key is go beneath it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that, oh it was my one friendship with
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: you know, Jimmy, whatever, it went beneath that. You had
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: a way of showing up. That was a puzzle piece
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: for what Jimmy was looking for, and you guys became
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: really good buddies and then a romantic realizing. It's same thing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: It's like it's stories or any sort of art. There's
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: the artist and the audience, and they're puzzle pieces for
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: each other. And if you know the impulse from what
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: you come from as like as like a like you're
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: most fascinated by in life as a puzzle piece, you
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: can then find your complimentary puzzle piece to snug to
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: fit snugly in that as things changed. You know who's
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: my favorite current guy is Jon Favreau. Right, starts out
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: as a working actor, right, then create Rights Swingers phenomenal,
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Like if he stopped there, he'd be like a lot
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: of amazing, right, and then he's like, well, no, no, no,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I actually want to direct something myself, and then I
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: want to do studio movies, and then I want to
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: do Marvel movies. And then he creates Mandalorian. He's probably
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: the best of you know, better than a lot of
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: the Lucas Star Wars stuff. So like, how do you
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: do it? He did it this exact way, totally conscious
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: and sustainable. He knew how he showed up to the party.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: He knew him as a himself as a puzzle piece,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: the soul, like in a deep level his soul. And
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: then he was like, oh I can fit this new
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: puzzle in this way. Here's how I fit here's how
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I don't fit. And I actually known people that I
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: know if he's been on your show.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I've known people that work with him. He's just what
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: they've said is he's really good about focusing on what
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: does matter and not caring about the stuff that doesn't.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: And that to me is like an awareness of who
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: am I as a puzzle piece, and that's how you
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: can keep reinventing yourself on every new level and every
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: new time.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting. And John's a really interesting guy, because
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: you're right, I mean, you know, you and I are
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: of an age to remember him from Swingers and Rudy
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: if you were, if you go back then acting in
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Rudy and these kind of films, and then him trying
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to make his bones in directing when he made a
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: movie called Made where he was the director of that,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and then they gave him Elf, and Elf had no
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: reason at all to be successful there. Will Ferrell was
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: a guy at Center at Live and it was ridiculous concept.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: That Will that Will's first Uh.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: That was Will? Oh, yeah, that was his first I
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: think that was either his first starring role or his
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: first movie. I don't know, but it was bit. They
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: did not want Will, Like the studio did not want
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: willis all documentary on Netflix about it. They did not
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: want Will. They're like, who the hell is gonna go
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: see a movie with Will Ferrell in it? This is
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a ridiculous. How that movie got made is a miracle.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: And then how John got it was even more of
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a miracle. But he turns it into a hit, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: then then he's able to start building his career off
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of Elf. But then he did a little Iron Man thing,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: launched the entire Marvel universe, and then he jumped ato
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Star Wars and kind of, you know, basically it's been
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: dragging along Star Wars ever since. Uh you know, he's
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a creative four he's a creative for look Man. Him
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and Dave, Dave Filonio, they basically created a force of
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Star Wars right now. I don't Yeah, it's it's.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: That if not them, who I mean?
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, who else is it? Who else?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Who else are we talking about in that world? But
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: it's really interesting how someone like that can do that,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And you look at someone like Tarantino who's been able
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: to create art at some of the highest levels in
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: three different decades by not focusing on the decade he's
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: on because his film's life on anything that he's he's
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: such on his own path. The thing is really interesting
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: about him, and he's a once in a generation talent.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Love him or hate him, you can't of respect the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: man as an artist and what he does when the
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: idea comes to him. This is the thing that's so
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: brilliant about him. There is nobody else on the planet
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: who can make it like they're just no. There's nobody
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: else who's making any Glorious Basterds. There's nobody who's making
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Jangle and Chain. There's nobody's making Once upon the Time
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: in Hollywood. It's just so quintessential Quentin that you nobody
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: could make those movies. There's just little could somebody else make.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Aliens could not take anything away from the genius that
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: James Cameron brought to it, or Ridley Scott or any
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: of these guys. But you like, oh, you know what,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: maybe a Spielberg Aliens would have been interesting, or maybe
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: a Scorsese, you know, a Scorsese Jaws would have been interesting,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: or like that. But you can't say like, oh, yeah,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: let's give you know, Chris Nolan Inglorious Bastards. It's gonna
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: be interesting. I'll give you that. But it's not in
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Glorious Bastards anymore.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know, no, that's right. No. He he definitely
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: had a deep sense of his puzzle piece and was
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: able to kind of plug it in for the audience.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: And actually, I think his two stories about him that
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: I think will be really instructive for people listening to
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: this one was when he was an actor in acting
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: in acting classes, he was writing down stuff. He was
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: like the in mid eighties and they didn't have like VCRs,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: even at that point where he didn't have one, but
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: he was running out like you saw some show, some film,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: and he wanted to do like the acting. He wanted
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: a little lug act that see right, right, So he
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: writes it out and then he gives it to his
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: acting partner and and the and the guy's looking at
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: it and going, dude, this isn't in the movie because
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: what what I thought it was? Oh man, I had
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: so in my head. I'm seen it so many times
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: I thought it was a movie, because no, this is
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: better than movies. In the movie, what the and so
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: he was like, Oh, maybe I'm really good at this.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's part of my sort of puzzle piece that
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I have to offer, right, Like I can go so
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: deeply into this thing that I can start sort of
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: building from where they where they started and taking it
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: off to that Also to that point, he I think
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: his superpower has to do with curation. So he starts
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: off as a as a you know, a guy working
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: in a movie in a movie store, move around movie busts,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: recommending movies. Oh you like this one, you probably like
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: this one, just steeped in it. But like you know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: if you look at the music in Reservoir Dogs, it's
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: like such a distinct, obscure set of songs that are
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: that really go down easy the place. So to me,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: he was a curator of a of pop culture and
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: he just even though he speaks, it's like explosively passionate.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: And so I think he just was so good at going, oh,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I'm like a million times interested in X, whether it
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: was a song or this or that, and he would
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: just kind of curate it together, learn enough of the rules,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: and then do his own thing. Like I was. I
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: don't know if you ever you know, that sequence in
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: uh pulp fiction when when she overdoses and and they
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: got the whole syringe and then she well, that was
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: taken like verbatim from from an obscure UH Taxi Driver
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: documentary called American Boy. I think from like the early seventies.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Do you know that story American Boy? Isn't it the
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: one that Scorsese so in.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: It was a short Yeah, I think it was a
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: short documentary. But it was the actor from Taxi Driver
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: that sold Travis Bickle the guns, Stephen Prince, I think
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: his name is. You know, I'm just off the top
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: of my head, so don't take it, but like, I'm
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: pretty sure it was. It was. It was a short
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: documentary that Scorsese basically directed that was basically about this
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: guy about about the actor from Taxi Driver basically telling
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: this story and he tells the story of this overdose
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: beat by beat by beat, which is as far as
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: I can know, pretty much beat by bb beat what
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: happens in pulp fiction. To the point where I saw
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: pulp fiction first. I ran across that Scarsese documentary later
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, it seems like
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: he ripped it off. But like you know, I've never
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: heard any sort of plagiars and things, and like, to me,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: that sort of indicates how where's greatness comes from. He
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: you know, who knows how many people saw that obscure documentary,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: but he did. It made a really beat, big impact
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: on his soul, and he kind of took it and
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: then and then made it his own in a whole
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: other movie that was But the connection there, I felt
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: like it was really very direct.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: But his genius is being able to have an encycloped
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: mine on cinema and music and be able to connect
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: the pieces in a way that nobody else on the
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: planet can. There's just nobody else on the planet that
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: can connect pieces like he does in his films. I mean,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: you watch Once upon a Time in Hollywood and you
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: just sit there going, you know, and the revisionist the
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: revisionist history that he does, and in Django and Glorious
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and in Hollywood, you just going and in what world
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: do you kill Hitler like the way they do and
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the like that's brilliant? In what way does the mass
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and family not do what they were supposed to do?
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: It's it's pretty remarkable, you know, as a screenwriter looking
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: at at his work, and then you go down to
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: someone like Nolan and you're like, there's nobody else that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: can make inception, just no, just nobody. Those are so
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: specific to the artist and to the writer and to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: the filmmaker that there's no way that James Cameron can't
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: make inception. He can make something, but it won't be
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: inception the way it's it was conceived. The same thing, though,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I'd argue that it'd be difficult for somebody to make Avatar.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you see, Cameron's superpower is is is really
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: interesting because it's a little more subtle than tarantino superpower
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: is Like now he's just like like wildly passionate about
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: some of some some sort of obscure things, but he's
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: smart enough about it. He connects the dots. He's just
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: so singular in that way. Moving along line, Nolan is
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: a little more traditional, but he definitely has a very
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: Here's what it is, Alex, Here's how people listening to
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: this can actually figure it out for themselves. We are
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: all world class experts on our favorite stuff, right, and
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: if you sort of review our favorite stuff, like in
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: the book that I that I that I wrote, I
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: kind of try to systematize this for anybody that looks
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: at it. You list your favorite films, you list your
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: favorite TV shows, You start looking at the connective tissue
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: of it. You sort of get more mindful about what
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: you're a world class expert on just based on other
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: movies that are out there. And then once you know
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: your voice and what's most compelling about your voice and
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: the analysis on your favorite stuff that really matters, separated
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: from the stuff that doesn't matter, you get to be
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: You get to be able to you're coming from a place,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: a creative sort of nexus where you can then express
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: your idea from that place, and that makes you singular.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: So Tarantino does it with curating stuff for music and
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: movies and all sorts of things, right, and then it
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: was out Nolan, there's his style is a little more
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: but like you just get this sense, like you can
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: see how deeply and how layered now aware he is
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: about what he cares about. Right, That's what a director
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: is doing. It's just sort of taking them through a
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: personal growth experience, shot by shot by shot with Cameron.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: What's so interesting is this style is kind of average ish.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: But Avatar Titanic. I mean, he's made some of the
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: most I think he's the box office champ of all time,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: right and he's so how is he doing it? I
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: think he just has. It's anything that's popular is the
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: same but different, And I think Cameron has a really
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: deep sense of what awakens his own soul in terms
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: of the same but different. In my in my opinion,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: his stuff is a little too similar to other stuff.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: But you know, the global box officees it differently. I mean,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: they love this stuff.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But the thing is with Cameron is that he taps
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: into primal ideas. He taps into really primal ideas. Aliens
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: is not about aliens. It's about a mother protecting her
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: young on both sides, the alien queen and Sigourney Weaver.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: That's what that movie is about. It's about It's not
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: about aliens. And that's where a lot of the filmmakers
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: who followed didn't get with Aliens. Like they made some
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: interesting alien movies, but what do we talk about when
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: we talk about Aliens Aliens one, Aliens two, and then
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: visually what Fincher did with Aliens three, and then the
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: studio took it away from it, and that that whole conversation.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: But it's really like, after Alien, which is arguable one
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: of the greatest sci fi films ever created, how do
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: you follow that with one of the greatest sci fi
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: action films ever created? From a Nope, from a guy
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: who just did a Terminator and then you look a Terminator,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: the primal ideas in Terminator, Titanic, Abyss, even True Lies,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: which is the probably most fun like having a good
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: time kind of project. But look at it an Avatar
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: and people always bust balls about Avatar, like, oh, it's
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: fern Gully meets Dances with Wolves, and I'm like, and
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: he tapped into some primal stuff. But what he also
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: does is on the writing side. By the way, I
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: don't know if you've written read any of his scripts lately,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: but how's his page craft. It's impeccable. It's impeccable. You
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: read Aliens is a masterclass on description, on economy of words.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: There's a sea of white and and he's so eloquent.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: It's like reading a Shane blackscript and you're just like, oh,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I've never read description like this before, Like are you
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: are you kidding?
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Me like, like.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I went back and read lethal Weapon and
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Luncus good night and uh, and you're just sitting there
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: going the way he did description, the way he writes
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: description is unlike anyone else. And then you look at
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: someone like Sorkin, the dialogue is something insane. It's insane.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's insane, the cadence, the artistic dialogue.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Here's what they're doing. You're getting. Thing is that there
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: when you see somebody that's writing at those higher levels,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: it's that they are open to something bigger and it flows.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: It's almost like they're not doing what other because other
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: people are kind of doing like oh I was in school,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I was supposed to do the Helmark blah blah blah blah.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: But then you see somebody that has like a masterful voice,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: and then it feels like you're connecting to another human being.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: It feels different. It almost feels like they're not screamwriting.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: They're there and then and what it is is they're
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: open to something that's so deep and intuitive and and
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: it just feels different in a very human but almost
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: universal way.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: It's really strange, imagine, right, And yeah, exactly, you look
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: at gatim Oldt Toro. You look at you know, you
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: look at these kind of writers that you're just sitting
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: there going, I mean, no one's making pans labyrinths other
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: than to get them a little toro like that's just
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: it's not happening. So but there their voices are so
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: connected to them, to their work, and you're absolutely right
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: everyone we're talking about And I said this to I
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: said a thousand times in the show, and I'll say
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: it again. The thing that sets you apart from everybody
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: else in the pact is you being authentic to yourself.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Your own juice, that thing that Brooks juice, the Alex juice,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: whatever the juice is that makes you who you are,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: is what sets you apart in the marketplace, in the world.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: And that's what people connect to. And that's honestly one
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: of the reasons people always ask me, why do you
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: think that you know, you start podcasting when there was
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of podcasts in filmmaking space seven years but
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: seven years ago, by the way, in July, seven years
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I've been doing this thing. And they go, why has
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: your show and shows done well over the last seven
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: years and a lot of other shows haven't continued, And like,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: why do people find your show popular? I'm like, they
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: want to listen, and I go because I am who
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I am. I am authentic, I'm asking authentic questions. I
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: am not a journalist. I am the essence of me
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: comes through my show, comes through the work, it comes
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: through the marketing, comes through my websites. It all is
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: authentically me. I do it without trying or thinking about it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Because when I first started podcasting, and I use podcasts
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: as an example, but when I first started interviewing people,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to freaking interview anybody. I've never
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: interviewed anybody in my life. I'm a freaking filmmaker. Like
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting there talking to somebody. I'm like, I don't
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask you questions I would like to ask you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And that was that was the because that was true.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: So even to this day, I talked talking to you,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I'm asking you questions. I'm just I'm just having a
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: conversation with you.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Man. I know what, let me add Let me add
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: something significant to this, because I think it's a really
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: great topic and and it'll bring your greatness to the
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: surface an even better way. Because think about this in theory,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: you could be one hundred percent authentic to you and
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: be pretty antisocial hermit on a mountain one hundred percent authentic.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: But like, the difference between what you're doing, my friend,
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and everybody we've talked about in terms of a thought leader,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: either entertainment or in this case, you know, is that you,
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: my friend, have absolutely a connection to your own authenticity,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: but a real burning desire to serve. Like if you
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: and I started going off the rails and having a
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: part of a conversation that you didn't really feel with
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: serving your audience, you'd be like, up up, up, up here.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: You're not haffing around with that.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: But that's subconscious. But that's a subconscious thing in the
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: back of my head.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But here's the thing, my friend, Maybe if you
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: allow it to be a little more conscious, you might
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: have increased your ability to be more sort of reinventing
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: if you want to go to different places or sustain it.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Because it's the dance. It's not just you being a
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: great dance partner. You are. It's that you. That's one
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: part of you, and you are really connected to somebody else.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: So it's you serving your audience like nobody else does.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: So it's those both those things. It's not just the
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: authentic thing, because that would be the hermit on the mountain.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: You are, it could be the hermit on the most extreme.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: You are authentic, and you genuinely care to serve. And
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: the way you've served people with such a wonderful, powerful
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: suite of different programs and tips and services is amazing,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: and that comes from real generosity and service. You see
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying to me, it's both. It's it's it's like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: here's the thing, like with Tarantino or any of these guys,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: that part of when they're yes, they want to express themselves,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: but they are dancing with somebody else. They are serving,
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: maybe like their own inner child in the audience or
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: something at a very sole level. But it's us talking
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: to something else as an advocate. So it's that connection
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: between the two points. It's not just me and my
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: own subject experience, you know what I'm saying.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: The difference, no, absolutely, and I agree with you. I
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: think any any of these masters that we're talking about,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: on the screenwriting side, or on the filmmaking side, or
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the or the both, is that they are truly thinking
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: about the audience. They're thinking about their own stuff, but
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: they're doing it both at the same time, because there
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: are filmmakers who literally just want to do their own
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: thing and can't care less about the audience, and we've
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: all seen those movies. And then we have the other one.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, I only care about the audience because I
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: want to make money, so I'm gonna put out some crap,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and then the audience feels it, yes.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, and then you have to do right that you
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: got it right. So there's if everybody else, I'm just
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: thinking about me, which might be authentic, but it's just
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: so like, look at my belly buttons, right. The other
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: one is I'm chasing the market, which I'm chasing the market.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I'm a hack. If you say this, I'll do this.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: I don't care, right, And then the real arts, which
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: to me, Chris Nolan's Dark Knight was the most magnificent,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: sort of modern example of all the things that felt
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: amazingly personal and intimate and as big of a spectacle
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: and the mar you know, gc movie, but like to me,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: it was like it was it was really I feel
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: chills even talking about it, because I felt like it
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: was a rare time that something was as broadly popular
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: as it could be and also intimate and personal. I mean,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: to me, that's that I'll get.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I'll throw another one at you. Thor Ragnarok.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: I mean it was.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: They gave basically an independent filmmaker, you know, one hundred
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: million dollars to go off and make or one hundred
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: and fifty million dollars and made some of the most
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: ridiculous insanity of a of a Thor movie ever. Because
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the first two Thor movies were fine, you know, the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: first one was okay, second one kind of was like
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: one of the considered one of the worst of all
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: the Marvel films. So they like they're like, hey, you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: let's give it to this insane this insane guy. And
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: they did. And what did they do? Now? Thor went
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: from a like a background character and the Avengers we'll
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: be right back after a word from our sponsor and
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: now back to the show, to now being one of
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: the most popular characters up there with Iron Man and
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: the other one is purely because he's so funny. Now
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that changed his case. He's a completely different character. It
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: was because of this this filmmaker, this writer who infused it.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: And now Love and Thunder is coming out, and I
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: just can't wait to see what's going on.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: They took it and they made a personal I mean,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: it's what Todd Phillips did with Joker, right, Oh, he
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: took He took basically, you know, sort of a taxi
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: driver at a edition in a sense, and then put
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: it in the DC universe and it was a billion
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: dollars box office, Like what that one? It's about the
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: psychopath and I was going to kill people? I thought
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: for sure. It was like, oh, I mean there was
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: you know, there was a shooting in a movie theater
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: where the guy dresses Joker. I thought, oh my man,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: this is going to be terrible. But he, I think
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: was able to hear and the screenwriter were able to
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: be really empathetic to that part of us that does
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: get feel like a victim and then finds a way
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: to stand up for ourselves, but does it in a
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: way that's you know, kind of dark, right, So like
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: we have that but very very dark in that sense
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: when we in our own life most of us aren't
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: that dark, but we relate to it because it's an
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: expression of that feels like us. So the intimacy in Joker,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I think was palpable and that plus is totally broad
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: colored Marvel movie or not DC movie, but yeah, DC
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: comes together to make it again. That's the thing. It's
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: that it's that really beautiful balance of sort of popular
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: and personal together.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: But on top of that, then there's the artistry of
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Joaquin Phoenix's performance. That that is the thing that drives
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: that project. Without Joaquin doing what he does and what
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: is he doing, he's being authentic in the way that
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: he approaches that thing. And this is a really interesting
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: conversation because I've had conversations with actors recently. I've had
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: a bunch of great conversations with some really big, you know, actors,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and we talk about like Meryl Streep and how they
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and how she's able to basically encompass anybody. She does
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like this every year. It's an Oscar nomination. Every it's
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: like an automatic Meryl. Meryl does something, she gets an
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Oscar nods. She's not like twenty nine Oscar nods. I
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: think the things. I'm like, that's the point. Someone like
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Tom Hanks sometime, like Tom Hanks can engulf a character
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: in a way that other actors can't. Daniel day Lewis Denzel,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: these characters, these actors who just get in there and
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: you're just like, they're they're not them anymore. They're channeling
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: the character almost, But how are they doing that? So
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about it. I'm bringing this up in an
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: artistic idea for writers and for filmmakers listening. How are
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: they able to encompass the characters? So what are they
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: doing differently than the fifteen million other actors working or
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: trying to work aren't doing? And why are they doing
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: it at that level? So what is Nolan Tarantino, Shane
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Black circt what are they doing different that the rest
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: of us aren't doing? What is that key? What are
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they tapping into that we can't and you can't tell
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: me that like, oh they're special, No, we all have
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: the ability to tap into this. Because Tarantino was bumping
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: his head against against the glass window trying to get
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: into the party for a decade before he finally got
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Reservoir made. He was in his early thirties when he
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: got that made, so he was trying and trying. No
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: one would even give him the light of day, just
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: would not. So he was able to figure it out.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And there's also perseverance and all that, and that's another conversation.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: But what is it about?
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: Then?
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: This is about these directors who can continuously can tap
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: into something and take their Scorsese, Marty of his generation
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: and Spielberg of his generation. They're still knocking it out
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: of the park at this age they're like seventies and like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's insane.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: So what do you say, I feel exactly? And to
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: talk about like the impact or somebody comes in, they
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: just haven't. So it's interesting because we've been actually touching
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: on this the whole time. It's I would say it's
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: two main aspects. One is they've got like a soul
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: deep awareness of what they are as a puzzle piece
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: and what they're not right. Knowing what you're not is
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: actually sometimes even more important than what you are right.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, I'm my puzzle piece. Is this
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: shape or whatever it is right? And they feel there's
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: a there's a deep sort of acceptance of that for
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: what it is. It's good, bad, it's whatever. There's a
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: neutral sort of or even slightly positive love for their thing,
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: their distinctness, their unique view as a human being. There's
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: that part of it. And then there's an other part
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: we talked about about process that when somebody walks in
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: and they have the IT factor, they are basically in
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: the moment, motionally differentiated to a significant degree about outcome.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: They are here, they are present there in the moment,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: and those two factors, awareness of authenticity, being in the moment,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: and then maybe even what I've saying before about sort
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: of awareness of where the audience is. So maybe it's
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: those three factors, awareness of me, awareness of you, and
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: then being in the moment. And it sounds really simple,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: but that is to my understanding, that is the IT factor.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: And actors can do it. Musicians can do it. Filmmakers
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: can do it with their sort of movies and when
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: they're in the room and they're if you can get
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: those three things, meet the person that you're with where
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: they are, fully being you from your soul expression, and
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: being in the moment. When you do it, there's just
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: a there's an openness in the spaceiist that happens. That's
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: when that sort of stuff kind of flows through. You
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: just have a deep experience. It's like what Joseph Campbell
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: talked about about an experience of being alive. When I'm
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: fully me, and I'm beholding you, being fully you, and
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: we're in the moment fully those three things when you
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: can sort of be in the habit. And so somebody
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: like Meryl Street, she's just in the habit of getting
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: to that place of being fully open and paying full attention.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: And that's it. And that's the one thing that separates
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: her from all these other actors is they're just in
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: their head as opposed to their soul. And it sounds simple,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: but you have to practice getting into your soul. And
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: as writers, we want to practice over and over again
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: dropping down writing from the soul. And if you're a director, on.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: This instinct, in instinct, something that comes from us, something
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: closed doors, the gut. It's writing from the gut as
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: opposed to writing from the head. Because the head is craft.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: And you've got to learn craft, because if you don't
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: know how to play a guitar, you're never gonna be
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: able to play guitar, no matter how talented you might be,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: give or take, give or take. You know, there's the
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: mozarts of the world, of course, but there is craft.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: So you do need to work at it. But we're
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: talking about now we understand craft. We understand. Now we're
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: at a different level because you and I both know
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: really good writers in this town. Yeah that aren't as
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: successful as they should be, that are that are really
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: good at what they do. I've read scripts that I'm going,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: how has this not been made? And I'm and I
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: just like, what is wrong? So it's not about that
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: that's good craft, But there's that something else that puts
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: you over the top. And that's what this whole conversation
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: has been. A route is about connecting to that thing
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: that allows you to stand apart after you've understood craft,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: under your stand the perseverance and the mental and all
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: the all the stuff that you got to go through
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: to make this thing happen, and the journey that the
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: destination all of that. But what we're talking about is
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: that authentic thing that makes you stand out. And when
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: you were saying I see you and you see me
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: and we're both authentic. To go back to James Cameron,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: what did he do an avatar? I see you? That concept,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: the ice you concept is so old. Yeah, it's so.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: It's the force, man, It's the force, the force. Look
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: what's Lucas did with the force? The forces? An idea
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: that had been around for millennia.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: That's Chi.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: It's chi, it's key, it's the life force. It's but
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: he's like, but we're gonna do some cool stuff with it.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: And then and then the Lightsabers. What are lightsabers? What
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: are Jedi Knights? They're samurais, you know, on a code.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: This is all They just touched on primal ideas, things
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: that we all new and just spun it to a
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: way that we're like, oh, okay, fights in space, we're
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: just World War two literally World War two edited fight.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: Uh f.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: They literally edited World War two footage in a sizzle
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: reel and matched it cut for cut with with the
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: with the tie fighters and stuff like that. Wow, it's
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: what they did. So that's what that's what they were
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: trying to do. And and again with someone like Lucas,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: he was so authentic with what what he was trying
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: to do with Star Wars, to bring myth back, to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: give the meats of potatoes of what we needed and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: and and wrap it in this beautiful package.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I love it, man, I love it. One
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: of the thoughts I want to add to this is
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: and I really like that sort of articulation of me
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: you in the moment those three things. Really, if you
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: can fill those three boxes, I think he sparked, you've
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: been the force flows through you.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Right, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: There's not so the writer that we know or an
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: actor that we know that's super talented. That's some that
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be getting the opportunities that they want.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: I think one thing that's different these days that was
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: different than you know when you and I came up
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: in like the nineties or eighties, is it really was
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: before a gatekeeper sort of situation in Hollywood where it
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: was like you had to kind of know somebody they
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: would because there were too many people that were interested
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: in writing stuff and most of the people weren't up
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: to that level of of you know, I think of
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: it in terms of prowess and proximity. Right. Prowess can
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: you write at that level where you're tapping into that
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: soul deep hit factor? Right? And then proximity do you
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: know somebody that can actually do something with your work? Right?
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: And so you're talking about some people that have the prowess,
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: but whatever reason, they're not in proximity to the people
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: that are actually doing the things. And back in the day,
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: you need a representation, you needed this to that. But
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: these days, guys, there's this thing called social media, and
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: that just obliterated the gates. The gates are not there.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: Hollywood is on social media and social media. I invite
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: everybody listening to this to think about social media as
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: basically an open cocktail party, Hollywood. Not everybody's at the
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: cocktail party. But I'm telling you, if they're not at
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: the cocktail party themselves, and the cocktail party is Twitter
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: or LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever. If they're not themselves,
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: their assistant or their second assistant is, and almost nobody's
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: talking to them. So you have probably one degree, if
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: not two degrees away from everybody you want to be
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: doing business with. If you have If you don't have
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: the prowess, then it's a move conversation anyway. If you
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: first have the prowess, you will have the proximity. You
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: just bring the superpower that we're talking about, awareness of me,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: awareness of you, awareness of the moment. Bring that into
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: your social media interactions. Tell you stand out. You are
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: not like the weirdo that's going buy my script, buy
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: my script. By my script, you are just connecting to
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: them in a soulful way about whatever they're posting about
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: because they have interest in that, and you just let
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: the conversation, let the relationship, long term relationship, just build organically.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: It doesn't take too many, too many of those exchanges
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: for them to go, who is this Alice guy? He
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: looks really interesting. I mean they know you, but like,
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: but like somebody is that's the newer writer. If you
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: show up with that it factor in social media, you
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: stand out. They're gonna who is this person? They click
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: over your profile, and if your profile is optimized to
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: have that IT factor that you're just feeling whatever your
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: superpower is in that profile, they go, that person's interesting.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: What's going on? Then they start asking you what are
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: you writing? And then you pitch to the difference.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've seen so many comedians who've built a
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: career off of just telling jokes on Twitter. Oh yeah,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: they just they tag a few people, couple hashtags, put
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: it out there. People just start following them because they're
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: just follow funny. And then all of a sudden you're like,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: what are they doing? And like how are they doing?
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: It's oh, I got a show. It's a different world.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: And I think so many of us I was. I
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: was such a victim of this for such a long time. Man,
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I was acting like it was the nineties. I was
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: acting like it was you know, and I was treating
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: my career and treating what I was doing very much
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: like I was still stuck in the nineties until I finally,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: you know, it took me a couple decades to figure
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: it out. I mean, I'm not joking about it, like literally,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I mean when twenty fifteen showed up and I was
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: at a pretty low point in my life, not the lowest.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I wrote a book about my lowest, but the but
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: it was really I wasn't in a great place. And
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, let me let me
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: start giving back and let me start let me open
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: up this business, and I'm going to do a podcast.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: And that's when that's when I launched indie film Hustle.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: And from that moment on, I was like, oh, okay,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: this is how the game is played. Now the rules
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: have changed. I'm starting to catch up. And now it's like, okay,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: now I got to be ahead of the game on
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: all these things, and I'm starting because I'm kind of
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: about the street level, and I'm interviewing and talking to
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: people constantly about what's the newest thing. If it's NFTs
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and raising money with NFTs, or is it blockchain? Is
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: that how we're going to distribute or are we you
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: knoww s VOD is over or not, t vot is
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: dead and avod is where the money is, and these
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: kind of things and Netflix not buying anymore, and you know,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Sundance doesn't have the same pull that it used to,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: and all of these kind of conversations where so many
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: filmmakers and so many screenwriters are stuck in the time
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: that they were growing up or think that they want
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to be in because the nineties, dude, spect the spect
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: market in the nineties, in the eighties and three million,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: four million dollars. Do you know the story of Shane
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Black's story of how he sold No No, how he
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: sold Last Action Hero.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I'm sure I've heard it. I mean, he's you know, his.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Story was this, Yeah, he's the poster chop for From
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: what I heard was his manager said, Shane, what do
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: you have? What's your next script? He's like, I got
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: this idea. He goes come over and tell me the idea.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: He's like, okay, great, he goes write it down on
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: this napkin. So he wrote it down on a napkin.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: And then that manager called every studio head in town.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: This is the craziness that we were in the world
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: at that time, every studio head in town and said,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I got Shane Black's next next script idea. If you
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: want it, you need to come down to my office
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: and read it. Wow, no assistant you So all of
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: the CEOs walked into the office and read a cocktail napkin,
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: and three days later we had a four million dollar bid.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: It was a bidding warfare, and then we all know
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: how Last Action Hero ended.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: But yeah, but yeah, that was Yeah, that was the death.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: I think that was the death of that. I think
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: after I think after that, I think they're like, you know,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: we're good. It's it. There's still million dollar sales every
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: once in a while in the spec mark and no question,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: but it's nothing like it wasn't it. I mean Joe
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Astra House Jesus.
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that was. It was nuts. It was it was,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: it was, it was. It was a good time, you know,
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: you all. I was sore, but here's I want. Something
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: I want to point out with you, my friend, is
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: that you took this intense passion that you had for
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: independent filmmaking and for helping others write. You're on authenticity
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: because you're no joke. You deeply care about this thing,
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: risking all these things. You really are the real deal.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: And you were like, look, I've learned a few things
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: over over the years. I'd like to have conversations around
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: that to be in service with your people. That's how
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: you did it, dude. That's how your puzzle piece went
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: from what it was in the nineties for what it
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: was it is now. You just said, here's my puzzle piece,
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: here's whe iuthent authentically am, here's a way that my
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: puzzle piece fits with what people needed. And you just
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: poured that fuel because you have that enthusiasm, and that's
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: why you're so successful. You've made that connuestion. And my friend, anything,
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: if you know whatever you want to do as a
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: filmmaker or screenwriter and you can, I invite you to
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: reflect on the exact way that you did it, because
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: if you did that, you have your trans All these
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: skills are transferable. That's what we're talking about that sustainability,
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Like that the mojo that you used to go from
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: you know, sort of talented indie filmmaker to like one
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: of the biggest podcasts in this sector. That you can
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: take that same mojo and put it into screenplay, film,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: whatever you want. That next level is there for you.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: You just have to slow down and figure out how
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: to connect those dots. You see what I'm saying.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: That's a that's a conversation we can have off air, sir.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: Because here's the thing that that's my favorite thing to do.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: And you know you were talking about audience, right, and
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: here here's how I can tell you. I have somebody
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: in my program right now, three million followers online, right,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: three million followers. He's only been at it for like
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: a year or two. Really funny comic, but he just
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: he was in like this comedy class or whatever. He's like,
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: you know what I can do? That character starts doing.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: The character puts these thirty second clips on boom boom,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: you know, up, fail, fail, fail, and then gets good
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: at it and then start dialing in viral, viral, viral boom.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Now he's got you know, audition to sign it. Lives
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: blowing up all all over right, it comes to me
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: and I show him how to take that third It's
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: the same thing I'm telling you, dude. I go, Okay,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: here's your superpower for thirty seconds, your world class. Here's
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: how you take that same superpower and put it into
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: a thirty page sitcom. And I'm telling you, dude, easiest pie,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: because that's what I do all day long. I try
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: to move myself forward, and I try to help other
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: people move forward with them, and I'm that doc connector
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: so so I could if I was to work with you,
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: I very specifically go, here's how I think you you
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: you cracked. That's a hard knot, dude. It's just like
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: you're saying, a lot of people are doing podcasts and
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: they're all falling away. How are you? How are you
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: outpacing this thing? And we would get very specific about that,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: and I'd say, here's your sort of very nuanced, specific superpower,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: and here's exactly how you apply it in your screenwriting, directing,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: whatever you want. Those dots connect. I promise you it's.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Really interesting too, because I mean I always figured that
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons why you know I've had a
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: popular show is because I'm I'm just relentless. I just
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: put out so much content that I'll just work. I'll
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: outwork you, I'll outwork anybody and no one. And yet
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: I outwore companies and I'm doing it a lot by myself,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: like companies with full staffs, and I'm still out working
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: them because that's who I am. As I mean, look,
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: I got fifty how many hustles can you see in
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: the screen at the same time my hat, my shirt
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: and the giant letters in the back. I mean, it's
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: a three giant words hustle. I mean, I live the brand, sir,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: I live the brand. There's no question. We'll be right
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: back after a word from our sponsor and now back
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: to the show. But it's really but it's it's really interesting.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: It's not more just to kind of just stroke my ego,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: but it's using it as an example of what because
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: you're You're absolutely right. There are tons of people trying
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: to break into the filmmaking and screenwriting space, and I've
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: been able to do it twice with indie film Muscle
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: and with Bulletproof Screenwriting both at the By the way,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this or not. Bulletproof
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: screenwriting is as big, if not bigger than indie film
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Hustle as a podcast. Wow. I just I've been realizing
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: that it's and I'm not saying that the boast, but
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: it's just fascinating to me. I'm like, how is this happening?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: So it's always interesting when when things like that happen
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: in your life, it's just like, Okay, let me. I mean,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I'm so busy doing it, I don't take time to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: think about why you do how it's doing it, so
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: that things same thing could be turned into when you're writing,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: if you're getting success, why am I getting success? And
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: if I can figure out that formula, then I can
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: kind of help it along and put fire gasoline on
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: the fire.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: That's it. I a thousand percent guarantee you. Jon Favreau
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: knows how to do it instinctive. I don't know if
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: he can speak to it, if it's that conscious for him.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: He probably can because he's so smart and so aware.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: But that's how he went from you know, reinvention, reinvention, reinvention, reinvention.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: He has that authenticity in him. He knows the types
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: of puzzle pieces that oh, here's where I fit in,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Here's where I fit in. Here's where I fit in.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: So you're like three X hustle aspect of your superpower.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: There's a way of doing that with maybe if you're
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: writing a new screenplay, drilling down on theme like the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: with the typical again I'm just pulling hisself in my head.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: But like the typical uh screenwriter might think of theme
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: one time, you as part of your superpower, will be
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: like I'm gonna hammer, I'm gonna think of theme three times,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: five times. With Tarantino, he curates ten times more than
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: the rest of us. That's how he's differentiating. And so
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: you have your own way of the exact way that
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: you've differentiated as a podcast. I promise you that's transferable
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: to you in whatever new format you want, screenwriting, directing, whatever.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: And it's a matter of just slow And what happens, dude,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: is it's it's slowing down, opening up, getting to that
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: spacious thing and going from the deep. Because when we
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: slow down and we just ask ourselves a question, we're
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: open to that, it flows through us and it tells
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: us it'll go Alex this, not that or Alex. You
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: know what I mean.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: If you can quiet the mind enough to hear when
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: it comes through because we're so busy sometimes. That's why
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: I'm such a big proponent of meditation. I meditate every
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: day and it helps the creative process a lot, and
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: I get the best ideas I get. If I have
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: a problem, I ask it in my meditation, and generally
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: ideas just fly it to me because you quiet yourself
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: all the noise down enough to allow that to come in.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: So as writers, you know, I ask a lot of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: these big screenwriters and do you meditate, and they're like absolutely,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Like I just it's a part of the process to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: kind of just quiet down the mind to allow that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: to come in. This is the thing that writers and
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: creatives don't understand. If you can allow yourself to receive this,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: this thing, this thing and the ether whatever you want
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: to call it, foo foo or not, I don't give
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: a crap. When an Oscar winner, multiple Oscar winners, they'll
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: be the same thing. I'm listening, So regardless if you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: believe or not, but if you can be quiet about
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: quite enough to accept it, to open yourself up to it,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: to relieve your ego, to relieve your mind and get
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: it out of the way to you instinctively allow it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: to come through you. That's when magic starts to happen.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: And these great artists that we're talking about in this
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: conversation have the ability to not do it just once,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: but again and again and again. And you can see
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: in a filmography you look at if you look closely
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: at a filmography, especially filmog scripts are different because once
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: they get made into a movie, a lot of different
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: things happen. But if a writer director, you can see
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: where they skewed off most of the time. Arguably Cameron
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: is probably the only one that does not have that.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: His filmography pretty much is rock solid. There's just it
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: just there's nothing that you're like, oh, he bombed that one.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Never is that it hasn't happened yet. Maybe in the
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: next five avatars. I don't know, doubt it, but but
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: generally speaking, you can see where things go, oh, oh
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: there was a misstep there, what happened there? And when
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: you investigate, there's something happening in their lives. They might
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: have gotten too full of themselves, the egos, situations like that.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting because I've been a student of
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: the business for close to thirty years. I've read building
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: biographies and really studied what these filmmakers do and you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: can just see you could see like, oh there, oh
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: boom oh boom oh, boom oh boom oh, and you know,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: and for Tarantino was death Proof. He that was that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: was the thing that scared to live in a hell
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: out of him. And it was really interesting because he's
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: talked about this publicly so many times. He was terrified
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: of death Proof, like because it was the first time
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: you ever bombed, first time, he was not well received,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: first time that people didn't love it. I do like
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: death Proof, but there's there's issues about it. It's definitely
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: not of the highest of his work. But there was
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: something that happened in that transition that wasn't authentic to
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: him anymore. Something happened. I don't know what it was,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: but it didn't sing. It didn't sing like the rest
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: of them. Something happened. So what did he do? Right away?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: He's like, kill Bill, I'm going right back to where
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I know, kill Bill. And then he came out with
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: it with this amazing, you know, amazing opus that was
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: kill Bill, and then A Glorious Bastards and so on.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure ifkil Bill was before after I but
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: the next movie.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: Was he went. So the way the way I would
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: say is he went found a way to receive that
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: he wasn't receiving impulses with that as yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: that's it. And so and let me wind it back
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: up because a lot of sometimes people will hear meditation
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: even if they're sort of down with it whatever, but
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: they're like sitting on a cushion whatever. So like, you know,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Phil Jackson was really big, you know, he was the
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: balls in the Lakers. He was really big into that.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: But you can imagine a lot of people that are
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: new to like because this is ridiculous. So what he
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: would do is just like, okay, we're going to meditate
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: as a team. If you're not into meditating, just rest,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: you know, no judgment either way. So like anybody who's
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: hearing this that's kind of new to that thing, it's like,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a little weird. Just it's cool.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: There's you know, there's not a right way to do it.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: It's really just settling yourself down and being sort of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: open to the bigger thing. You could actually do it
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: going on a walk, you could do it, journaling, you
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: could do whatever. I'm like, way into personal growth. And
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: I don't tradition and only meditate that I do sometimes,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: but like for the most part, I just want to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: get myself into like a grounded state of tapping into
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: something better, you know. And I do it in the morning,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: and I do it at night most of the time,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: not not all the time. But like so I would
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: invite people to think about it, and here's the thing.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: And so sometimes I'll like my my morning richual will
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: be journaling and then I'll be like, nah, f that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do like some tai chi and I'm like, yeah,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: that kids stupid, but it'll change. And like, so I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: invite you guys to come up if look, if you
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: if meditation works for you, and you can do that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: and clockwork amazing, But I would encourage you guys just
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: to find your own way into that open space and
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: that's going to make the difference. And then one other
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: thing quickly, The other thing that if you get a
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: good coach or consultant, what they will do is they
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: will help you get into that deep, grounded space because
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: it feels really vulnerable and people are afraid of it.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: So if you get to a really you work with
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: somebody who's really good, and somebody who's really good will
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: put you in touch with your superpower and then just duck.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: Like when I'm doing my best word as it was
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: a coach, I'm just like, go, dude, go keep going.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: It's great. You know, like I'm really good at getting
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: out of the way to recognize it because it's not
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: about me. It's being in service to their greatness so
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: that they and their audience can have this beautiful union.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: So I'm in the moment helping them sort of have
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: this thing. And when we're getting coached, you know, if
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: it's a great coach, if you feel like amazing, like
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: so powerful, and then from there you just write at
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: a much higher level because the stuff is flowing through you.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: So a start with your version of whatever meditation is
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: or whatever, and then b get support from anybody in
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: your life that can get you into that state of awesomeness.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: One last last thing, and then you know it was
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: to me like when I look at you know, Ben
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Affleck and Matt Damon and how they you know, really created.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: You know, they are having some success in Hollywood when
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: they when they at least what I've heard about, I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: don't know them person, but what I've heard about them
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: making goodwill hunting, I really admired how they seemed to
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: just shower each other with love. They really loved each other, man, No,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: you're awesome. They seem to really build each other up.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: Because I had really strong relationships with friends, but in
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: my mind, we didn't seem to be going as far
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: as those guys seem to go in terms of really
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: celebrating each other. And there's something in that quality. So
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: for them, that sort of celebration was able to you know,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: and then they got support from my Castle Rock or whatever.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: But like, but so whatever your version of getting celebrated
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: and supported by amazing people. It could be a coach,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: it could be friends, who could be whatever. Get your
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: version of it, because it's from that place that you're
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: going to create at a much higher level.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question, Bruce Man. I mean, this conversation
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: went into a direction that I wasn't expecting, which I
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: love so much. We basically talked about the authenticity of
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: being a screenwriter. We'll be right back after a word
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and now back to the show and
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: authenticity being an artist, how to channel, how to get
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: things into you, how to be able to tap into
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: the ether all these amazing things that aren't really talked
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: about very often in this space. You know, we could
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: talk about character development and structure all day, but this
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: is something really interesting, and I'm so glad that we
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: had this conversation, and hopefully it's the beginning place for
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: people listening to start figuring out, is this that, what's
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: the missing thing? You know? One guy I wanted to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: bring up before we before we stop or finish is
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Taylor Sheridan. Now, Taylor Sheridan arguably is one of the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: best writers in Hollywood right now. He's arguably the busiest
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: Holly writer in Hollywood. There's just he's got eleven shows
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: in production. I think it's I think he's got between
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, god, there's like at least six that I
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: know of off the top of my head. But then
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: I saw a video on Paramount Plus that showed like
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: three or four other ones he's developing that are like,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a new one coming out with Sylvester
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: Stallone as a gangster, and then there's nineteen thirty two,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: another prequel to the two Yellowstone and Mayor's a Kingstown
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: and there's like the six sixty six, the four six
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: is the ranch spin off. Like, this's just so much.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: But I was watching an interview with him this weekend.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: He was I think on CBS this morning, and he
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: talked about just bumping his head for years in Hollywood,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: and he was he's such a matter of fact guy.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: He's just like, he's a cowboy. He is a cowboy.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: That's him. He's straight up cowboy. He's like, I make
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: movies to support my horse Habit is exactly that's so.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: So he has been bumping. He was bumping around Hollywood
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: for almost two decades, just just right, just acting. And
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: he'd always got parts here and there, and he got
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: a couple of shows and things. Good looking dude, good actor.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: No reason why he shouldn't have made it as a lead.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: He could have easily been a leading man. I could
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: see him as a leading guy. But he's like, I
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: never made it past you know, eleven on the fucking
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: cas Like he goes like, and he goes, I've never
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: seen in town anybody batter their head against the wall
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: for twenty years and then make it. And I was like, wow,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: that's really interesting. He goes the town tells you what
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: you are supposed to be doing. And I was like,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: that just hit me like a ton of bricks, man,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: because I was just like, Wow, that's pretty pretty deep
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: of a comment to say. But then you start thinking
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: about it, and there isn't a story that twenty years
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: somebody was beating and beating in eating the help to
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: be an actor and then they became Tom Cruise like that,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't you know they were writing for twenty years and
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: then they became Quentin Tarantino like that. He was I've
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: seen it at eight years, I've seen it at ten years,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: seen it at twelve years, but I haven't seen it
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: at twenty years. He goes, and that's something really specific.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: So it's an idea that I was like, hmmm. The
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: town tells you what you're supposed to be doing. So
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: if you're going in a direction and after eight or
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: ten years it's not working out, maybe this is not
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: the specific path to me. I want to be screening
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: it for film feature features, feature features like maybe TV's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: where you need to be. Yeah, maybe you wanted to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: be a filmmaker. Maybe you need to be something.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: I love it. To me, that's that puzzle piece it's
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: like I'm puzzle. Please I think I fit here? Right?
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: Or do I want I want I want to fit here.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: I want to fit here?
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And then you got to try it and
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: then but he is the one thing I mean this
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: is it's a it's a really good thing. It's the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: key is to when we're trying to find where we
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: fit as a puzzle piece, to come from that deeper place, right,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: because because sometimes you'll see people going, oh, I didn't
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: fit here, and then I'll try horror, and then I'll
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: try comedy, and then I'll try whatever. And that's kind
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: of a lot of frenetic energy, but it's not as deep.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: So what you want to do is go no, no, deeper.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: Who And to me, it's like who am I here
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: to serve? And I think what he did was like
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: holme in a second. I can connect to the audience
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: in a different way if I if I write, you
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: know that I've that I've been able to do so
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: far as as an actor, I can do some serious stuff.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: With an actor, I can go even deeper. So that's
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: to me, is what you're looking for is who can
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: I serve in a deep way that feels authentic for me,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: authentic for them to me. That's that's where that magic is.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And it was so funny because he's like someone told him,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: I think he wrote something down somewhere or something I
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: don't know, and a friend of his like, hey, maybe
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: you should write. Try writing. So that weekend he went
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: home and wrote the pilot for Mayor of Kingstown, which
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: I'm watching. I'm watching, by the way, it's a fantastic show.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: And he and he literally said to himself after he
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: wrote the pilot, which took him a week, that's how
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: much built up craft and energy he had built up
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: but had never executed in that space that he was
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: able to create a pilot. By the way, I don't
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: know if you've seen the pilot for American.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: No, No, it's good.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: It's one of the best pilots I've ever seen. It's
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: really it's up there with it's up there with the
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: Breaking Bad Pilot. It's up there with the Mad Ment
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Pallet in my opinion, because you watch it and it
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: did what a job of a pilot is supposed to do.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: It introduces characters and hooks you for the series, and
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: there's something that happens in that pilot that you're just going, well,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: I have to watch the entire show now because it
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: was so beautifully crafted. And then just the concept of
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: the of what the characters are doing was something I'd
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: never even never been seen before. So it's such an
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: original idea. That was another thing. But he said, Man,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: I wish I would have started doing this fifteen years ago.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: He literally stopped and said that, because I wish I
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: would have been doing this fifteen years ago. I've been
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: bumping my head as an actor all these years, and
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: what I really was meant to do is write. Yeah,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: and then now he's a writer and director, and then
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: he did It's Carrio and you know, of Hell and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: high Water and from Helena.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: The Keys. So one more thought about this is really interesting.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: There's this personal growth guy named Gay Hendrix, and he
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: talks about he talks about like these four zones. Right.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: One is like the zone of like, you know, you
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: hate it, it's like you're miserable, and then one is
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: like okay, you can kind of you know, you can
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: put up with it, but once whatever. The third is
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: the excellence zone, and then the fourth is a genius zone. Right,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: And I think what we're talking about with Tyler, Sheridan
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: and Tarantino by the way, as an actor, you know,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: you know somebody, Yeah, not not strong, right, and then
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: and then through that, but he was trying, he was
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: going out there, he was whatever, so he didn't stop there.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: He was like a hold on a second. And then,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: like I said, with that, the instant one guy said, oh,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: is a writer, You're amazing, and that was like, oh, yeah,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: that's actually where my genius on is. And with Sheridan
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: he was, you know, maybe excellent or or whatever as
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: an actor, but as a writer, that was really his genius.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: So like and we know what, we're in our genius zone.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: When you get that time warp thing, things just flow,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: they just happen. It's just it feels effortless. It's easy.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: Other people are like, oh my god, you're amazing at this,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 3: you know, But we want to be careful because the
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: excellent zone is tricky because we're competent. We're actually getting
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: stuff done, but it's not really while we're on the planet.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: And that could be those those golden handcuffs. Maybe we're
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: good at some other sector or even we're good in
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: the film business, but we're not really connecting soul to soul.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: We're kind of getting it done, but like that deeper level.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: So I would if I everybody listening to this just
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: think about your different The book that's a pretty good
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: one is The Genia Zone by Gayhandrix or The Big
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: Leap by Gayandra, But it's totally applicable to you and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: your place in the business. Are you working from your
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: real genius zone? And when you are people you find
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: your kindred spirits and they find you.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful, it's it's you're absolutely right. Listen, man brook
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Where can people find out more about you and the
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: amazing work you're doing.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: Sir so go to Twitter Brooks elms b r O
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: O K s E l m s at Twitter And
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: if you like me a little bit, just want to
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: hear the stuff, that's fine. If you want to get
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: on my email list, you can click the link on
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: my Twitter profile and that brings you into you know,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: all sorts offferliays. Get on my emails and like there's
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: some free guides about dealing with fear and feedback and
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: all sorts of good stuff. And on my email list
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: you get exclusive free content, like we did a free
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: group coaching call today. Which is really fun. So yeah,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: and then I actually just came out with a new book.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: You can get that through the same link. And the
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: book is like a nine step process of how I
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: intend to systematize like that it's factor. I mean, I
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: call it your superpower and like where you start to
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: kind of define that. So it's like a system. But
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: the idea is to go really sol deep on your
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: system so that it's repeatable and sustainable but really clear
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: steps forward. So and writers have been having a really
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: good time with it.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: So Brooks, man, it's been a absolute of pleasure. Man,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: you got to come back on the show. We always
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: have great conversations. This has been, uh, this has been
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: one for the books, my friend. So I appreciate you,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: my friend. Thank you again for coming on the back.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: Thank you brother. I'm really happy to be here.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Brooks so much for coming on
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: the show and dropping his knowledge bombs on the Tribe today.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Brooks. If you want to get
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: over to the show notes app anyfilm also dot com
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: forward Slash seven sixty seven. If you have it already,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: to you soon.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 1:20:08
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• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: dot com.