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The stories behind the deadliest year for people in ICE custody · This Week On ICE

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  [music]
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  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to This Week On ICE for October 21st, 2026.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Matthew Kendrick.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Kelly Kimball.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're joined by Jeremy Young,
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  SPEAKER_00: a senior producer with Fault Lines,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is an Al Jazeera project that takes audiences beyond the headlines to examine
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  SPEAKER_00: the United States' role in the world.
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  SPEAKER_00: Last week,
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  SPEAKER_00: Fault Lines released its latest documentary called Dying in Detention,
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  SPEAKER_00: which investigates the rising death toll in immigration detention centers
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  SPEAKER_00: across the country in the wake of President Trump's crackdown.
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  SPEAKER_00: Today, we'll discuss the systemic failures behind the growing number of deaths
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  SPEAKER_00: in ICE custody, as well as some of the stories at the heart of the documentary.
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  SPEAKER_00: Among them is the story of Ismael Ayala Uribe,
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  SPEAKER_00: an undocumented immigrant who died of an infection that went septic while detained
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  SPEAKER_00: in the Adelanto ICE Processing Center in Southern California this year.
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  SPEAKER_00: His death is part of a disturbing broader trend.
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  SPEAKER_00: By many estimates,
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  SPEAKER_00: 2026 is on track to become the deadliest year on record for people in ICE custody.
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  SPEAKER_00: Jeremy, welcome to the show.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
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  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: Your documentary opens and closes with the story of 39-year-old Ismael Ayala Uribe.
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  SPEAKER_00: Both his family and medical experts that you interviewed maintain
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  SPEAKER_00: that he would still be alive today had he received the medical attention at the time
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  SPEAKER_00: that it was most needed.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what does his death tell you about ICE and GeoGroup's goals and
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  SPEAKER_00: the methods they use to achieve them?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that question.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think we've learned a lot from the traumatic death of Ismael.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the things that rises to the top is that people
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  SPEAKER_01: who need medical care and are asking
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  SPEAKER_01: for medical care are not receiving medical care.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty well documented in his case.
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  SPEAKER_01: His mom was speaking to him on the phone two or three times a day and his requests
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  SPEAKER_01: for medical care were documented and they were ignored.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the truth is,
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  SPEAKER_01: I believe that all of the deaths that we've seen
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  SPEAKER_01: in ICE custody are preventable deaths.
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  SPEAKER_01: The idea that this concludes with someone expiring from being in
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  SPEAKER_01: an immigration detention facility,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's just not a rational outcome for this situation.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think his story really reflects some of the significant institutional problems
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  SPEAKER_01: that people are facing inside these facilities.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_02: You know,
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  SPEAKER_02: I was doing a little research and the antibiotic medication
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  SPEAKER_02: that it seems like he would have needed if this infection that killed him was caught
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  SPEAKER_02: in an earlier time, it costs less than 10 cents per pill in most places.
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  SPEAKER_02: You make the point in the documentary that GeoGroup makes money
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  SPEAKER_02: by not providing food, not providing services.
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  SPEAKER_02: The lower their costs, the more that they profit off of these government contracts.
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  SPEAKER_02: How can they justify not giving someone a 10 cent pill?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the problems are even more significant than that in the sense
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  SPEAKER_01: that they're not paying the bills,
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  SPEAKER_01: they're not paying outside providers for services,
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  SPEAKER_01: and these outside providers are no longer willing to provide these services
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  SPEAKER_01: for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why we heard time and time again,
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  SPEAKER_01: even Ismail's situation mirrors the same thing,
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  SPEAKER_01: that if you are able to see some sort of a nurse or some sort of person
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  SPEAKER_01: who has some sort of medical training,
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  SPEAKER_01: You're not really given many options besides Tylenol and we'll check on you twice
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  SPEAKER_01: a day,
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  SPEAKER_01: which it turned out in Ismail's case,
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  SPEAKER_01: they never checked on him at all, much less twice a day.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the conditions inside these facilities are really,
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  SPEAKER_01: really bare and really tough for people to navigate.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like not having access to sort of really inexpensive,
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  SPEAKER_01: basic life-saving medicines is definitely frustrating and is definitely high on
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  SPEAKER_01: that list.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I just think there's so many other things that are problematic for these people
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  SPEAKER_01: to be able to just survive.
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  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about surviving.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: This documentary notes the specific conditions in Adelanto that led to the death
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  SPEAKER_00: of Ayala Uribe,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you also note the much larger systemic failings and shortcomings that lead
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  SPEAKER_00: to such terrible conditions in facilities like Adelanto.
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  SPEAKER_00: So one of the main things that you point out is that
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  SPEAKER_00: the Trump administration dissolved DHS's Office of
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  SPEAKER_00: the Immigration Detention Ombudsman in May.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious,
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  SPEAKER_00: California had this authority to scrutinize the conditions in Adelanto,
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  SPEAKER_00: and that was abundantly clear with your interview with Rob Bonta.
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  SPEAKER_00: Can similarly independent investigations in lieu of this ombudsman office take place
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  SPEAKER_00: in other places?
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  SPEAKER_00: Can Texas look into Camp East Montana?
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  SPEAKER_00: Can New Jersey look into Delaney Hall in the same way that California was able to do?
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious about If we're still able to look into the systemic failings
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  SPEAKER_00: if there is no ombudsman office.
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  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple of different points to explain here.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the Ombudsman office would handle complaints from detainees and aim to address them.
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  SPEAKER_01: That was the whole purpose of that office.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that there was a place to receive complaints and a way to address them.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's gone.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there's no way for people to get services through that means.
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  SPEAKER_01: The special access that the state of California has granted
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  SPEAKER_01: the Attorney General's office came through a law that was passed in
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  SPEAKER_01: the California legislature.
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  SPEAKER_01: So Texas legislature ain't passing that law.
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  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you that without taking a fine look at it because a lot of
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  SPEAKER_01: the legislatures across the country are extremely far right wing
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  SPEAKER_01: and not representative of the political stripes of the population.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I do not think they would be granting their state law enforcement entity
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  SPEAKER_01: the opportunity to do the inspections.
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  SPEAKER_01: So what California has is unique access.
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  SPEAKER_01: One of the challenges One of the changes that's happening now is that GeoGroup sold
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  SPEAKER_01: the Atalanto complex at the end of October to us.
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  SPEAKER_01: We bought it for $950 million.
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  SPEAKER_01: And one of the interesting aspects of that is that in one of the earnings calls,
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  SPEAKER_01: one of the senior executives stated that if the property is sold to
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  SPEAKER_01: the federal government,
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  SPEAKER_01: there could be more protection against litigation because it's a federal property at
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  SPEAKER_01: that point instead of a privately owned property in the state of California.
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  SPEAKER_02: And just to be clear,
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  SPEAKER_02: to us you mean the public interest of the United States and not like Al Jazeera.
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  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to make that very clear.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not the three of us.
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  SPEAKER_01: I meant the United States of America purchased the facility for almost a billion dollars.
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  SPEAKER_00: So just so everyone is clear,
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  SPEAKER_00: and if people have not followed our podcast up to this point,
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  SPEAKER_00: Adelanto was at one point owned by GeoGroup from 2011 up until it was sold.
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  SPEAKER_00: In October of this year for $950 million back to the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_00: government,
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  SPEAKER_00: what have local advocates,
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  SPEAKER_00: activists,
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  SPEAKER_00: watchdogs,
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  SPEAKER_00: how are they bracing for this change of ownership from GeoGroup to the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_00: government?
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, for the documentary,
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  SPEAKER_01: we spent a lot of time with activists from the Inland Coalition
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  SPEAKER_01: for Immigrant Justice,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is a group that's been part of a campaign to try and shut down Atalanto.
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  SPEAKER_01: And they've had some interesting techniques.
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  SPEAKER_01: They've proposed things like special taxes.
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  SPEAKER_01: They've tried to use local government in a way that could be constructive.
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  SPEAKER_01: But they've been fighting against this place for a long time,
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  SPEAKER_01: for what it stands for, for what it's done to families.
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  SPEAKER_01: And this is just another sort of block in the wall.
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  SPEAKER_01: I think they sort of expect these kinds of tactics.
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  SPEAKER_01: They've been in this fight for a long time.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think the work that they are doing to provide direct support to people
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  SPEAKER_01: who need it and communications with family, which is really difficult to do.
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  SPEAKER_01: Remember, Atalanto is You know, three hour drive from Los Angeles.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's very far away.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I personally and I've worked on previous investigations
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  SPEAKER_01: into other facilities around the country for other projects for fault lines.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think these facilities are intentionally placed beyond the reach
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  SPEAKER_01: of family members, attorneys, journalists, oversight.
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  SPEAKER_01: They make them hard to get to.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that has a real impact on people.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_02: Not to mention how much money is spent on transportation and transit,
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  SPEAKER_02: which doesn't make any sense.
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  SPEAKER_01: And also, again, coming back to being able to be near family members.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is something that we know from the U.S. criminal justice system that has an impact.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so it's something that's been studied for a long time for people
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  SPEAKER_01: in immigration detention facilities to not be able to see family members.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a death blow for these families.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's really tragic.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the most,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think,
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  SPEAKER_01: interesting aspects of the reporting on the documentary was spending
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  SPEAKER_01: a day outside Atalanto in the 100-degree heat as families were visiting.
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  SPEAKER_01: And sort of,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: my role as a producer is to walk around the parking lot I speak Spanish,
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  SPEAKER_01: so I introduce myself to people and say,
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  SPEAKER_01: hey, we're filming this documentary, you know, would you like to talk to us?
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  SPEAKER_01: And most people,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's not a great time for them to do an interview with someone they've never met
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  SPEAKER_01: before.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I met these two sisters who were in visiting their brother
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  SPEAKER_01: who had just been detained about a week earlier,
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  SPEAKER_01: and they were young,
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  SPEAKER_01: they were in their 20s,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I tried to see if they would do the interview,
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  SPEAKER_01: and they said, you know, I think we're okay for today, thank you so much.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so they drove off, and I'm sort of walking back to where our camera was set up.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I see their car do a U-turn and they turn around and they come back.
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  SPEAKER_01: I said, are you guys coming back to do the interview?
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  SPEAKER_01: And they said, yeah, yeah, we are.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so they got out of the car.
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  SPEAKER_01: We filmed this interview.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was really interesting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Their brother,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: they were so upset that their brother had been put into like handcuffs
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  SPEAKER_01: and leg cuffs.
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  SPEAKER_01: They said, my brother's not a criminal.
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  SPEAKER_01: Why are they treating him like this?
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  SPEAKER_01: This is unbelievable.
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  SPEAKER_01: They really didn't expect this.
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  SPEAKER_01: And at the very end,
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  SPEAKER_01: I asked one of the sisters, I said, hey,
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  SPEAKER_01: I got to ask you, you know, why did you decide to come back and do the interview?
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  SPEAKER_01: And she said, there's just not enough people who are speaking up right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it would be important.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, like it was just such an amazing moment because it's true.
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  SPEAKER_01: And to see her in real time kind of change her mind and want to speak out
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  SPEAKER_01: about her brother, I thought was really powerful.
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  SPEAKER_02: I had a question about that exact sort of situation you're describing when you're in
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: the parking lot of Adelanto.
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  SPEAKER_02: And you interview this woman who just blew my mind.
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  SPEAKER_02: She was a Trump voter.
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  SPEAKER_02: She had a Trump tattoo.
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  SPEAKER_02: And her husband had been detained in Adelanto.
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  SPEAKER_02: She was weeping about the conditions he was facing there.
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  SPEAKER_02: I was curious if you'd give me more insight about what she said,
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  SPEAKER_02: how she was feeling,
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  SPEAKER_02: how someone like her deals with this absolutely shattering event that
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: in some way she played a tiny role in bringing around.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sure, and to help paint a picture for your listeners,
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  SPEAKER_01: Sarah Frakes,
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  SPEAKER_01: this was at the very end of the day,
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  SPEAKER_01: actually,
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  SPEAKER_01: she came out,
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  SPEAKER_01: and Sarah is,
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  SPEAKER_01: she's white,
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  SPEAKER_01: she's got all kinds of tattoos, she's got kind of like a grill in her teeth.
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  SPEAKER_01: She looks like a character.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I approached her and I said, would you be open to talking to us?
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  SPEAKER_01: And she said, yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: Her husband is from Georgia.
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  SPEAKER_01: And has been having rectal bleeding.
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  SPEAKER_01: And she's been trying to get medical care.
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  SPEAKER_01: And basically, she said that ICE won't pay for the care that he needs.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, she told us that she voted for Trump and that she had a Trump tattoo.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, you've got to show us that if you have that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And she unzipped her boot.
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  SPEAKER_01: And she had a 45 tattooed on her ankle.
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  SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, I voted for this.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is what she said.
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  SPEAKER_01: I voted for this, but I didn't vote for this.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's sort of like I knew exactly And that was that this experience,
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  SPEAKER_01: this crackdown has impacted her personally in a way
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  SPEAKER_01: where she absolutely not only doesn't support Trump,
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  SPEAKER_01: she doesn't want to vote anymore.
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  SPEAKER_01: She is just so alienated from the political system.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting note.
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  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what's going to happen in two weeks' time with the midterms.
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  SPEAKER_01: We don't know how this issue is going to impact voters because it's complex
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  SPEAKER_01: and there's lots of issues at play.
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  SPEAKER_01: But it was an interesting note to think about as those midterms are coming up
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  SPEAKER_01: that voters like Sarah absolutely are turned off.
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  SPEAKER_01: And there are people who are turned off by what's happened in this space particularly.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: On the bit about the midterm elections,
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  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it's already almost here and some people,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's already early voting for many places all over the country.
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  SPEAKER_00: Recent polling has indicated that corruption is a major concern for voters,
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  SPEAKER_00: no matter their political affiliation.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so with the possibility of Democrats flipping control of the House,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: potentially the Senate,
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  SPEAKER_00: government accountability is likely to be a major issue of concern and
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: of discussion.
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  SPEAKER_00: How is ICE's crackdown contributing to concerns about government corruption?
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  SPEAKER_00: How is government corruption a major factor, a major force in ICE and immigration enforcement?
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  SPEAKER_00: And what have you uncovered about the ways in which it may be fueling corruption
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  SPEAKER_00: within the government?
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  SPEAKER_01: It's a really good question.
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  SPEAKER_01: And sadly,
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of the corruption that we see is publicly facing,
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  SPEAKER_01: in plain sight, political corruption.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: for our story,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: thank you to the Project on Government Oversight,
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  SPEAKER_01: which unearthed the fact that Congressman Jim Jordan had received, well,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's actually a group aligned with the congressman,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: had received $250,000 from the GEO Group.
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  SPEAKER_01: Nobody would have known about this if the project on government oversight hadn't flagged it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we noticed that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So when we interviewed Congressman Jordan,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: when we were down on Capitol Hill for a day attending a hearing on Delaney Hall,
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  SPEAKER_01: we were able to catch up with him in the hallway and ask him about that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And he is the official in the House of Representatives who is responsible for oversight of ICE.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when Natasha Del Toro,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: our correspondent,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: pointed out that this group aligned with him received $250,000,
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  SPEAKER_01: she said, couldn't you see how that could be a conflict of interest?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, no, and just kind of laughed it off.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so that's very telling to me.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think to answer part of your question,
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  SPEAKER_01: what's happening that's visible to us,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: that corruption is troubling and problematic and having a big influence
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: on everything that's happening.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Additional corruption investigations that may or may not be going on,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a lot of confidence into the legitimacy and the quality
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: of those investigations right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be surprised if there's lots of corruption that's going on
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  SPEAKER_01: that we're not aware of in this space.
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  SPEAKER_01: Huge contracts, huge, huge contracts.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're talking about just this summer,
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  SPEAKER_01: $70 billion was allotted on top of what had previously been laid out.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of money there for the taking.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly would be interested in looking into it more.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: getting back to the larger question of how people will vote as a result
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: of this crackdown and how has it impacted people.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's I think one thing that's interesting is that because it's
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  SPEAKER_01: so widespread, right,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: because almost every community has lost someone to this immigration crackdown,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's really seeped into the national consciousness in a way that like, Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_01: there's people who look away or people who live in an informational bubble
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  SPEAKER_01: that don't follow it or know about it.
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  SPEAKER_01: But then again, it's been kind of everywhere.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's why you saw a very significant shift this year away from Kristi Noem
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: to Mark Wayne Mullen.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: That whole strategy was based on the lack of popularity that
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  SPEAKER_01: the crackdown was having coming out of Minnesota and some
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: of these other higher profile killings that took place.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why they continue to detain people at higher rates,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: actually, under Mark Wayne Mullen.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it didn't have the visibility because it doesn't have the political popularity.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's my read of the situation.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I absolutely think we don't know what's going to happen with regards to
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: the midterms, but we'll be watching.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be really interesting.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's our read as well, as we've been covering the Mullen era.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just on the corruption theme continuing.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: We mentioned the $950 million sale of Adelanto.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: You also mentioned in the doc that the acting head of ICE is a former GeoGroup senior executive.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about a group affiliated with Jim Jordan receiving this major bribe.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is comical.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is comically corrupt, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you get the billion dollars,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: you get to keep the government contract to operate the facility,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: now with minus the cost of whatever they were paying to maintain
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: the facility tax-free.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not asking your legal opinions.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you're a lawyer.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: But, like,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a method of legal accountability for this level of just what seems
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: to me extremely blatant corruption?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're small wins.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: one of the things that we reported on was the hunger strike at Atalanto
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: and this lawsuit that the detainees filed along with some of the advocacy groups.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they were really buoyed when a judge,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: ruled with them and ordered that they have to be provided fresh water and they have
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: to,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: there's a series of goals that need to be met now,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know, enforcing that, whether it gets appealed, how it's going to play out.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: but I think there's kind of small victories that are taking place at times
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: which can feel unsatisfactory against such an unrelenting tide.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And to answer the first part of your question, Yeah,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: like think about the idea that they remove the requirement to report deaths
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: that take place within 30 days of leaving ICE custody,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: that they no longer, I mean,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's such a blatant red flag that's in the public domain for everyone to see,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: like, whoa, why wouldn't you want to do that?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that seems like a really good idea that we should report that within 30 days,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: a very reasonable amount of time.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: They've done away with that requirement.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's very in your face, I would say.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: speaking about Delaney Hall and Adelanto and these hunger strikes,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: some of the detainees you interviewed,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: in fact,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: one specifically said his experience was,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: quote, physical and psychological torture, end quote.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And other people showed contusions from being what they said was being beaten.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Many showed severe signs of psychological distress.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I remember one detainee's daughter saying she had never seen her father in that state of mind.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: What did your subjects tell you about The specifics of why
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: and how they were being abused while in detention.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I should say that we're incredibly grateful to have people within
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: the facility speak with us on the record on camera for our story
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: because it puts them at risk without a doubt.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they themselves told us that Taking part in the hunger strike resulted
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: in them being put into solitary confinement,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: that they were beaten by guards so that the guards could make an example of people
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: who were refusing to eat the food that the facility was providing.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the dirtiness, the lack of access to clean drinking water.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just recently detainees at Atalanto showed this contaminated water on camera
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: that had these worm-like creatures inside of them.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like just the overall lack of cleanliness.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: We had some of the detainees tell us they do the cleaning themselves
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: because there's no one at the facility who cleans the facility.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think that general living conditions are just so good.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think you brought up something else that's really interesting,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: which is mental health impact that this is having.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm sure your listeners know this,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: but the overwhelming majority of these people have no criminal convictions.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: What incarceration is having on their mental health is so severe.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought we included this moment in the documentary,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: but just to share it with you,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: where one of the fathers,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: because most of the people we talked to were men for this project,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: said that his kids who are 9 and 11,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: he tells his kids that he's never going to give up.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's not going to give up his asylum claim.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's not going to give up.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because he doesn't want them to see their father as a quitter.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: He wants them to see their father as someone who always fought to be together as a family.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, wow, it was just really profound.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it just makes you think about the impact that this Crackdown is having
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: on families is really severe.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it is kind of, you know, because a lot, so much is dark and so much is negative.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: when you see these sprouts of inspiration,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: of humanity, of perseverance, it kind of, I think, lifts you up a little bit.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's worth sharing.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: there are so,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: there's any number of ICE detention facilities that you could have focused on.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Any number of, unfortunately, any number of ICE-related deaths that you could have focused on.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious why you targeted Adelanto for this documentary and
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: then why you targeted Ismael Ayala Uribe and his family
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: to really carry this documentary forward.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Adelanto has been a problematic institution for a long time.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: It has a problematic history.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: At one point,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: there were less than 10 detainees at the facility because of ongoing litigation
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: and penalties.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until Trump came back into the office that
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: the population expanded back to almost 2,000 people.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you could imagine, like...
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge facility.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then also the fact that there were four deaths within a six-month period
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: of time, like that is shocking.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is really shocking.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: one of the things too to remember about the families of loved ones The loved ones
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: who have lost someone in these detention centers, one,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're not always able to speak out because of their situation
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: if they aren't documented.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've also seen ICE,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: like we've seen repercussions for people speaking out
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: where people have been targeted and detained and deported for that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a risk for family members to speak out.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Fortunately,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: in Ismael's case, both Lucia and her brother Jose spoke for us for the documentary.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're both documented,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: so I think they felt a little bit more comfortable in putting their voice out there.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of these families are really hurt, are really scared.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't expect for their loved one to die in this facility.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: They knew it was a nightmare.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: They knew the situation that they were navigating was terrible,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: but they didn't expect their loved one to die.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of the family members,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think, have been really deeply hurt and it's hard for them to speak out.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think ultimately being able to speak with both Lucia and with Jose
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: and having two family members willing to contribute to the documentary
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: to us just made a real difference.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they were just so thoughtful in really opening themselves up to really speak
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: about what happened.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's still very recently.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was just the one-year anniversary on September 22nd of Ismail's passing.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still a really recent pain, and
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: they're still really struggling.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: really grateful that they were willing to speak up and talk about their experiences
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: with us in such a profound and meaningful way,
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: because I think that's kind of what people need to take away from our All
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: of these people who died in ICE detention facilities have loved ones who care
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: about them,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: have loved ones who loved them,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: relied on them, need them, and they're missing them now.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's just a good reminder for your listeners to have.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: And listeners,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: please do go to Al Jazeera's website and look up Fault Lines and you'll be able
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: to watch this film.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's very impactful.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be hooked from the first minute.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Stunning visuals as well.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Anywhere else people can find you and Natasha's work, Jeremy, that we can send them to?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: So all of the Fault Lines stories that we produce are posted to YouTube.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And Natasha and I and the rest of the team,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: we won an Emmy Award for our story that we did last year called Crackdown,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Deported Under Trump.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that was about two families who had to deal with detention and deportation
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: in spite of the fact that they were following all of the rules that we asked them
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: to follow.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a different story that they can check out to see some
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: of our previous coverage of ICE as well.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's it for us this week.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: As always, be safe, look out for your neighbors, and we'll see you next time.
• 24:49
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