Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / Let's Talk with Carl Lee - Celebrating a Coaching Legend: Nitro Girls Basketball Coach Lawrence Scott Swayne

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Let's Talk with Carl Lee - Celebrating a Coaching Legend: Nitro Girls Basketball Coach Lawrence Scott Swayne · WCHS Network Podcasts

0:01
Yeah, you gotta work. Yeah, you gotta work. Cry signs mine
0:13
gotta show everybody is my time? You gotta work? Cry sign another mind
0:19
whom saga die this day line, don't tell you gotta work. Let the
0:23
conversation begin. This is let's talk with your host, Carl Lee. Hello,
0:29
ladies and gentlemen, missus Crawley with let's talk. And we have a
0:34
special guest on today, someone who I've been trying to get on, you
0:39
know, and he's so busy coaching that it was hard, hard to get
0:45
the set up. And me and Hollis had talked about trying to get this
0:48
gentleman on just because of the information that he he If you sit and talk
0:58
with him, you can't, you can't. You can't fathom, like all
1:00
the information that he knows. But I want to give just a little piece
1:04
over the over the past decade as a head coach, this gentleman has won
1:12
seventy five of eighty games, that's including thirty six game winning streak five consecutive
1:22
years. His team's earned honors of county championships, and he led he even
1:30
led the track team, Yeah, okay, the track team to a championship
1:34
in this last past season. Yes, for the girls championship and we we
1:41
haven't we have in the studio. I'm honored to have coach Scott Swain in
1:46
the studio today. How you doing, sir Paul? Thank you for having
1:51
me. Hey man, I'm just and and I want this to be said
1:57
and no matter how and I hope that you can take this and not feel
2:01
uncomfortable. I am honored to have you on this show. Thank you.
2:07
I am honored to like have you sitting in this studio having an opportunity to
2:13
to create this this venue, this platform, to let people know what you're
2:21
still doing, Okay, And I think that I think that's that's important.
2:25
And and Hollis, I've always in the conversation about coaching has always been is
2:34
it the coach? Is it the players? Most cases, coaches have to
2:42
have the right players. But I'm gonna make the case in this situation,
2:51
the kids that coach Swayne touches, I think they I think they understand his
2:59
purpose. Yeah, and I'm curious to even hear him talk about his own
3:02
coaching style. But before we take that, I'm curious to see how does
3:09
a person, how does a coach coach multiple different schools, mostly in the
3:17
black community, for the benefit of the black community, and take these young
3:25
men and women and turn them into championships. That's a great question, then,
3:34
coach. So you're from Gary, West Virginia, mcdoll County, and
3:38
when did you first come to Charleston and kind of where did it start.
3:42
I came to Charleston in the early seventies to play football at Westernon State.
3:46
I was recruited by State to play quarterback at State. And I have a
3:50
lot of people in Panawa County that went to Western States from mcdell County,
3:53
Walter Wilkson, a bunch of people that I know that's connected. And I
3:58
was recruited by Bluefield State because it was only two schools that would take a
4:01
black quarterback at that time, Bluefield State and West Virginia State. So once
4:05
I came to Charleston on the recruiting trip doing May weekend, I never let
4:11
And again we're talking, we're talking black quarterback when when the concept of a
4:16
black quarterback isn't even possible. Yeah, it was. It was interesting.
4:23
I'm sure you were just still doing what you do best, just playing the
4:26
game, and if you could throw the ball, it was a quarterback.
4:30
If you can remember the plays and put everybody where you're supposed to be,
4:32
and you know, Cook controls at the quarterback. So did you did you
4:35
you play this state? You graduated from state? Yes, and then you
4:40
started your teaching career and coaching. When did the coaching start? Probably about
4:44
forty five years ago. Okay, all right, about forty five years ago.
4:48
I was coaching on the west side of the Bud League and Big Ed
4:51
Sweeney had a league on the west side, and I was coaching Taft.
4:56
It was an elementary school that he watched the manor oh the Tag. Then
5:00
I went to Wilson, then I went to Stonewall, then I went to
5:02
Capitol. So my whole teaching has been on the West side, the grandkids
5:06
to the grandmas. So by being in the community and teaching also about where
5:12
is your stuff, getting your seat, you know, all the things that
5:15
make you successful in life. And that's what coaching is. It's just teaching
5:18
things to make it successful in the game. But teaching in the school system
5:23
was the big one because it went that many black men teachers. I never
5:26
had a black teacher growing in like elementary, high school. Nothing. I
5:30
didn't have a black more teacher until college, so I wasn't black. It
5:32
was about eight when I first started. Teachers now the age teachers. So
5:36
it's like, but that's why in McDill County either went to coal mines or
5:41
you became a teacher. And I had aunts and uncles that were teachers Gary
5:46
District High School in mcdeill County, so I was I was gonna be a
5:48
teachering to coach ms Barry and coach Richardson whether two black individuals who coached and
6:00
Todd right that that I saw on a regular basis, and to check you
6:04
out what's going on? And and and and as they called him all pro,
6:10
he he would he would cuss me. I would make a I could
6:15
make a play. Coaches are saying good play, good play, And he
6:18
would walk by me and he'd look, he'd look around, make sure it
6:23
wasn't nobody close to me, and and he and he'd throw the end word
6:26
at you, you know, and he'd be like, don't you listen to
6:31
all that? That ain't that ain't that ain't great, that's a that's just
6:36
a regular old play. And I used to think like he was just hating
6:41
on me like, you know, that's even for hating was even a term.
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But I was like, why is he? And he he taught my
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mom and dad. So he came to my house, you know, and
6:54
came to my mom and dad and told them like this, your kid is
6:59
going to fool around and gonna let this school take his career right because he
7:03
think he all that. And he would tell me like, don't listen to
7:06
these coaches. Yeah, you ain't do nothing special. This is what you're
7:11
supposed to do. But see what we didn't have when I came here.
7:15
We still don't have. We don't have black men teachers. Like I can't
7:17
tell you how many black men teachers are in the county. I know Larry
7:21
Moore, big L Banks principal, but we don't have any black men teachers.
7:26
If they are out there, I don't know. It's only a few
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I know the schools that I've been to. So before we get get into
7:31
the details of your coaching history, I have to say this because in the
7:36
era that I came up, in the early mid nineties, it's a very
7:41
tromosuous era, particularly dealing with the cracker epidemic, and you know how it
7:45
was on the West Side did. And I know that a lot of young
7:47
men my age, they look to you. You was their father, uncle,
7:51
big brother, coach, teacher. You was the only one keeping them
7:56
in school, right, So dealing in that era, how was that for
8:00
you and kind of what the mindset you take on to deal with that.
8:03
I just looked at it like something that we had to win. We had
8:05
to win that part of it. Because when the crack at the West Side,
8:07
I lived on Central Avenue. I remember that there. So it was
8:11
jumping all off and I'm like, hey, you can still got to do
8:13
your homework. I don't care what's happening. You still gotta do what you
8:16
gotta do. You know, if your mom in jail and your dad got
8:20
shot, what's your point. We gotta keep going. We can't stop.
8:22
See, growing up in the sixties, you had the attitude that you couldn't
8:26
stop. You gotta keep going. And that's the attitude that we've I've had
8:30
growing up and even now, you got to keep pushing, stay still.
8:33
You can't gain, you can't get ahead like that. And again I'm with
8:37
you, Hollis, because I'm interested in having you just start talking and giving
8:43
some information. But again, I I'm trying to imagine you being this black
8:48
quarterback being good and the acceptance of it, because it was that couldn't have
8:58
been in anything that was accepted. And yet you're performing, you're doing everything
9:03
that you can do, and yet it's it's it's not it's not something that
9:09
should be happening. But see, you have to look at mcdoll County.
9:13
The history of mcdell County is working together. Whether or not you're a Bucarelli,
9:16
a Bukervinch. You had all these Italians, you had people from Czechoslovakia.
9:20
Everybody was living in one part, working in the mines, so it
9:24
didn't matter. So Plus my father worked for you as still, so he
9:28
knew. They just knew I was the quarterback. So I never thought it.
9:31
But just one coach gave He tried to make me quick, try to
9:35
run me away, but I didn't do it. Coach Wilkerson, that was
9:37
a coaching at Geary. He's Ronnie Wilkerson's dad, normous dad. He's a
9:41
legendary coach in mcdell County. He was the only black coach when we integrated.
9:46
We had no black coaches. Wow. Wow, So what was the
9:50
first coaching job and kind of how did you get started? Now you said
9:54
you got started with the billie ball, when did you get started with the
9:56
football, and kind of moving up to the ranks. Well, when Don
10:00
Clinton Dinning was the Prince with Joe Wilson, he needed a coach and he
10:03
needed a teacher because Carl Clark left Wilson and went to Stonewall. So I
10:07
took Carl's place at Wilson. So Clint Dinning hired me, and Danny Knapp
10:11
was the basketball coach and Bob Grimmitt was the football coach, and they and
10:15
Larry Mullins they needed assistant so I became an assistant coach because it's something to
10:18
do to stay with sports, to stay around sports. And one time I
10:22
thought I was good enough to go to the pros till we were playing Central
10:26
State and this dude named Meil Lunsford about six eight two ninety grabbed me and
10:31
I thought I was as solid as a rock, slipped me around, spun
10:35
me and drug me on the ground. I said, nah, I think
10:39
we all ca I know I had he was NFL paper. Yeah, we're
10:46
not going to do this, especially no body's blocking. Ton't take any consideration.
10:52
Who's blocking for you? So tell the tell the listeners like today when
11:03
you look at coaching, you look at the youth and how that how that
11:11
relationship is. Now, help me with what that is because I've been complaining
11:16
about it. Well people ain't listening to me. Well, they may not
11:18
listen to me, but I do know this relationship has changed because the parents
11:24
have become more involved, in a lot of times in a negative way.
11:26
Instead of trying to help the situation, A lot of parents cause confusion and
11:31
it hurts the situation. So it's more prevalent now. Social media makes people
11:37
more a word. Now people want to be on social media for whatever reason.
11:39
And it got to the point where you couldn't get kids work hard.
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See, if you're not gonna work hard, we're gonna have a problem.
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And if we're gonna have a problem, it's because you're not working hard.
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And I just wouldn't accept it. And it got to be more and more
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of that, and I found myself like, Okay, well let it go.
11:54
Then I got to think, and any who I'm not, that's not
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who I am. I'm not gonna let it go. So I'm gonna still
12:00
be the way it's supposed to be done, as far as the right way,
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you know, clean up around your locker, put your stuff away to
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give it for practice. You know, just just do this. And I
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think that goes to my point earlier because I think in the times that I
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was coming up in middle school during that age, our prayers wasn't necessarily around,
12:18
so you had to be the prayer. You had to step in.
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And I think a lot of my guys that I hung out with but not
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for yeah, but not for you. You know, Durrel's tacos all my
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guys, but not for you, they probably wouldn't have developed to the men
12:33
that they are today. One of the most successful stories out of the whole
12:35
thing is Drel Miller. The Reel's like a son to me. And I
12:39
kicked the team eighteen times. I know, I kicked him all. I
12:45
let him back. I'm gonna do better. Okay, let's keep working at
12:46
this now. He's a very successful person in the community. Yes, I
12:50
love the Reil. He's doing a great thing. He knows that. Seeing
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I think of it is once you develop a relationship with a player or a
12:56
student and they know that you care about him, then they will to do
13:00
that much for you, and you can almost trick them, and they're doing
13:01
more and and it takes, and it takes. It takes somebody to challenge,
13:05
like like Damon Booker, Like Damon Booker is a young man who I
13:13
know for a five that loves me, okay, and and we've had conversations
13:18
and he's and to this day he'll say everything about his relationship with me at
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State. It's got him to where he is today, you know. And
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and his thing was you know, and I'm after him like every day,
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like every day, I'm on him for something. You gotta work harder.
13:37
You gotta do that. Parents don't they don't want that, like and and
13:43
and and I don't understand. And I'm begging. I'm begging to to to
13:46
to the parent because I even I even responded to somebody who said a dad
13:52
that was talking about his kid on Facebook and and talking about talking to the
13:56
coach and all that, and I'm like, that's not the that's not I
14:00
gotta solve it. See what people don't understand is sports is different than everything
14:05
else. If you're in sports, so there's certain things that you have to
14:09
have done in that sport to be successful, and you want your parents to
14:11
help you. You want to be a part of your team. But a
14:15
lot of times nowadays parents are like bad news for some teams. And the
14:20
kids know that. The kids, well, say, I got the young
14:24
kids too, so I know how the world is changing. I'm not as
14:26
hard on them as I was with my other kids, but I should be
14:30
harder because it's hard on me. But the kids nowadays, you're talking about
14:33
football. That's hard work. That's just you can't just come in here bull
14:37
crapping around. You're gonna get hurt. You gonna get somebody else hurt,
14:41
You get yourself hurt, But you ain't gonna get my quarterback hurt because you
14:43
still I forgot about that. Say so you can't get you can't get two
14:48
for one. Get you if you don't want to work. But see the
14:50
thing about football that I really loved about football, Unless you've ever played it,
14:56
like in organized football, it's tough and you better be on your game.
15:00
The higher you go playing that, the more you better have games because
15:03
the game increases speed. You should know that, Will guess and I agree
15:07
one hundred percent. And I think the problem is what you measure of being
15:13
good, great, outstanding. I think it's isn't because you scored touchdowns,
15:18
isn't because you're the best guy on your team. To see, it's the
15:22
measure of everybody that you can see or don't see. More so the people
15:28
that you don't see but see. The record is not The record is important,
15:31
but it's not the most important thing. The most important thing is to
15:35
give them discipline, give them a direction, give them things they gotta do.
15:39
They're gonna be with us. And so even if you don't win games,
15:41
which we love to win, don't get me wrong, but at least
15:43
we've made something happen good. But it's not all it is, man.
15:46
And let me ask you so for people that know you talked about beginning your
15:50
coaching career Wilson that was a former middle school of junior high on the West
15:54
Side, and you coach from you know, in the eighties and nineties to
15:58
early two thousand and two thousands, and you've had sustainable success the whole time.
16:04
It's because of the kids. Man. The West Sides has some great
16:07
kids for a long but we know, okay, we know, we know
16:11
that, we know, we know that the West Side has some great talent.
16:17
But to manage that, To manage that talent, what you gotta do.
16:22
You gotta have high expectations. You got to set it high. And
16:25
if you're gonna be with me on this, you're gonna have to try to
16:27
meet that expectation. Because I'm a very personal coach. I coach everybody different.
16:32
You can't treat everybody the same. You hear people say treat everybody the
16:34
same as bullcrap, and see, I'm trying. I'm run one of the
16:41
best stores they ever heard. When Emma Smith was drafted and the other kid
16:45
was drafted and they were training camp and one kid was sleeping, Coach Jimmy
16:48
Johnson got rid of him and the parent came in and said, hey,
16:52
hey, uh, what would you do if Emma Smith was sleep? He
16:55
said, but he can go if that's what you want to do. So
17:03
again again, because what people don't realize, because we'll say that all the
17:07
West Side just had talented kids, but during the eighties and nineties and two
17:10
thousand, they had tremendous problems issues. We had issues on the West It
17:15
had tremendous issues. So you have to manage that. I took that personally
17:18
too, because I knew those kids, I knew those parents, I knew
17:22
those people. I don't know a lot of them now because we got different
17:25
people that's moved in. But at that time it was a stable community eighties,
17:29
nineties, two thousand. It's the same people. So now you don't
17:33
know them, you don't have that kind of connection with the parents. So
17:36
that's where it starts. And if you can't have a connection, you can't
17:37
do nothing. Man, is there really even a reason for mom or dad
17:42
to even step into the question into the mold because the kid comes home and
17:51
he's saying, Mom, Dad, I'm not starting right, Mom, Dad
17:56
want and now all of a sudden want to call coach and say, way,
18:00
what what's going on? Why my kid ain't I can't tell you this.
18:03
I've never had a parent ask me why their kid wasn't playing. All
18:06
the whole time I was on the West Side, not once did somebody say,
18:08
why come my kid ain't playing? They know that the reason they ain't
18:11
playing because they ain't good enough high expectations. But also you're a trusted member
18:17
of the community. I think that's different too, because I don't I don't
18:21
know, because like I said, not only did you coach teach, but
18:23
you lived in You lived in the hood. You lived right there in the
18:26
community and had success and they could see your successful. They're not leaving.
18:30
But see, people always said when you worried about you know, somebody got
18:33
shot down the street. I said, they weren't shooting me. They wouldn't
18:36
either, They wouldn't know. One time, some I broke the winder in
18:38
my house. Man, and I call some of the young sister that I
18:41
used to deal with, and I said, I need to find out who
18:44
did is because my daughter Mercedes was living with me on Sex broke the window
18:48
befin a half. Now. They brought the kid to me. They found
18:51
out who did it that quick and brought him to my door. And I
18:52
said, look, man, that's dangerous. You can't do that. That
18:55
was dumb, you know what you know? So just pay for my window
18:59
and they let him. Yeah, I'm telling you it was like that.
19:02
So let me ask you this because I know not only did you have success
19:04
in football, you had a basketball track and you pulled off kind of what
19:08
coaches are doing now with the women's coaches. Do you used to have the
19:12
old g's to come play to rough them up and get them better. Oh
19:18
yes, where did that come from? How did you think it? Because
19:19
you play against the best to get better. So school ain't there doing Christmas
19:23
that's when we did it. We adin't do it during the season, but
19:26
when Christmas high noon. Every day when the school's out, practice at twelve
19:30
o'clock, regardless if it's snow or not, twelve o'clock and you're don't show
19:34
up your best practice twelve o'clock high noon, that's what I call it.
19:37
There's always that. It's the discipline that they needed in sports, and I
19:42
gave it to them in sports, and hope it transferred into life. See,
19:45
that's that's what I said. The other day we talked coach. We
19:49
talked so much about discipline being the key element to everything, not just sports,
19:56
no, to everything. And you and and the thing about sports is
19:59
sports, which was that thing that you were supposed to get introduced into that
20:03
type of discipline, you know, being on time, doing everything that the
20:08
coach said, and and even knowing what he wanted you to do. But
20:12
see, don't you realize that society developed sports so we can have something for
20:15
people to do. And if you put it in a competition. If you're
20:19
a competitor, you want to win. So sports gives you that goal.
20:23
No one wants to be in sports and lose. Nobody likes to lose.
20:26
I don't give. I don't care what nobody's say. You know, just
20:30
win. Just's win. So if what you got to do to win is
20:33
be disciplined and not just on the field, like in the locker room.
20:37
If it was stuff in the locker room, it better be picked up because
20:40
if whoever it was it comes to my office, you gotta come get it.
20:42
So where were my helmet? Go? See, coach Swayne, it
20:48
has to be put away. Man, that's Whitey there. Coach. I
20:51
would not if you walked away from your helmet. Right if you left your
20:56
helmet sitting on the bench and you went and got water and I saw that
20:59
helmet, you take it. That's an issue that your helmet and I would
21:03
tell you don't ever see you got. And that's why I think that that's
21:08
why I could never coach. No guys. Now, see girls you tell
21:11
them stuff, they try to do it. They want to do well with
21:15
guys. They've seen things, they've seen TV. They emulate things. Girls
21:18
don't emulate too much and nothing. They just do what you tell them.
21:22
And if you got good girls that can play, you can win state championships.
21:26
I figure that out real quick. We got to know we got the
21:29
Nitro. And that's interesting because I think when we talk about the emergency of
21:33
women's professional college basketball, I think you're seeing just better ball. Yes,
21:37
you know, just from I'm not expert. It's it's just a better game
21:41
to watch. And yes, it's it's more defensive too. It's wide open,
21:45
easy buckets. It's hard down grit. It's Grit's what we do at
21:48
Nitrol. We bout there from the West Side. How do we lose that
21:52
in the guys? Because because I know in my last year is coaching and
21:57
what I said, no more, because you just everybody was just strictly about
22:03
them. We could be beating the team down. They get mad because they
22:04
ain't get enough carries, enough touchdown. I seen that's a selfish people.
22:10
I've experienced that such and such got more carriage. To me, he was
22:15
better than me, and I'm better than him. Whatever. Look, you
22:18
get your own team, you can do what you want. But that's what
22:22
I'm gonna do. See, I've never had a parent ask me, why
22:26
come my kid ain't playing? Now Pat at Nitro, now he's had parents
22:30
ask He talked about that. I coached Pat, Pat and Junior high him
22:34
and then Jr. J R. Kenny was probably the smartest guy ever coach
22:38
and he's one of the smartest coaches around. And I've been with Jr.
22:41
He was he was with me at Stonewall for like fifteen years, like twelve
22:45
County champ. I mean, it was ridiculous at Glenwood. I remember,
22:48
he's a hell of a guy. He's a health of coach. But the
22:51
coaching mentality that you want to do is do a teaching mentality, teaching moments
22:56
all the time. See, I'm a teacher. I come from teachers,
22:59
so teaching to me, I had fun teaching. I just got tired of
23:03
teaching forty years. You put your time, man, Yeah time. Oh
23:07
yeah in one part of town. Yeah, in one part of town.
23:10
And I'm telling he raised the whole community guys over there. Well, I'm
23:14
glad I was able to do it. Now somebody else got to step it
23:17
up. Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna switch this a little bit and not
23:22
saying we can't go back to any of those pieces. But one of the
23:25
interesting components that I found out I found some information out about that I thought
23:30
was really crazy. South Charleston High School gets a new coach, and so
23:38
he gets a staff and all of a sudden, his offensive side of the
23:45
ball, I guess offensive coordinator and all those coaches on that side, they
23:52
don't necessarily agree with what he wants to do how he wants to do.
23:59
And I'm trying, and I'm trying, because see I'm trying to figure out
24:03
this cold the coaches concept. Everybody I can't imagine anybody saying anything to but
24:11
Grant, I can't see anybody saying anything to Sonny random. You know what
24:17
I'm saying, Like these these coaches, I know those type of coaches as
24:22
head coaches, and so I'm like, you don't even know what to say
24:26
to him. But see it's different now. Everything is Branston's softing up.
24:30
Everything is softening up, even in athletics and coaching. It's softening up.
24:33
It's not no boom. Why wouldn't I come and talk to you. I
24:38
could come meet with you and so if you wanted to, But instead I'm
24:44
gonna get hollers because he's the office of coordinator and and that's wrong, man,
24:48
that's just wrong. You if that's who you are, you shouldn't be
24:52
in coaching, or you should be looking for your own head coaching job.
24:56
And then you gotta then you also have to be able to say that your
25:00
staff can come to you and say that you're wrong. Coaching is hard,
25:06
so anybody wants to do it. There ain't no money in it, you
25:08
know, it ain't no money. At one time I looked at winch this
25:11
state. I got people on the w club and the alumni, Hey come
25:17
down here and coaching state. Maybe I make more money coaching girls basketball.
25:21
And they was paying at that time. I'm like, come on, man,
25:22
because if you're gonna do it, you want to do it right.
25:25
And it's the time that you're paying me for not the job. Put a
25:27
lot of time, and you really and to your point, really, you
25:32
have to like coaching, or you have to like being around after you and
25:38
you have to love the idea of working with kids. Because if you're thinking
25:41
you're gonna make money here, especially in coaching at west Manyon State, myself,
25:47
I get it. It wasn't It wasn't for the money. You know,
25:49
it was for the kids that I was for the young men that I
25:52
was gonna touch and hopefully that I can make make them in a minute.
25:56
That's hard because they're not ready. They're not ready turned how they gonna be.
26:00
When you get them younger like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you can
26:03
put a bigger stamp. But once they get older, big habits. Yeah,
26:11
now now we know you gotta go. We approaching times. So but
26:14
so you got a list over there the people that I've coached, Yeah,
26:17
the best players that you. I ain't saying the best, say the best.
26:21
I'm just saying the people that I remember. Okay, got you got
26:23
you right there, right all right, So let's let's say that list.
26:26
Okay, we got Darryl Denson Kennedy, He won a Kennedy Award winner.
26:30
Dnson was the greatest runner back I ever coached. Yeah, Kennedy warred.
26:33
He played at WU four while this went to our our play hours. He
26:37
played at Stonewall. Okay. Stuart Mitchell who played baseball and philis quarterback uh
26:42
ex Stonewall. Roger Stewart who went to farm Ound. He made all stake.
26:48
Mark Moore played at Stonewall. Went to Tennessee, played in Atlanta Falcons.
26:52
Eric Smedley went to Indiana, played in the NFL. Buffalo Bill Buffalo
26:56
Bill Mack. Yeah, I took him up there on that on that visit.
27:00
He said, coach, I ain't coming up here, but we went
27:03
up here. You know, they put us in. Remember that. Like
27:06
Eric Smedley, John Jones JJ played for New York Jets. His son playing
27:11
for North Carolina now Jo running back tallis running back out. He was.
27:17
He was my quarterback and someone he was my quarterback. He's smart. I
27:19
give him, you know, he's the quarterback. Then you got Ricky Serry
27:23
went to the VU Ricky Yes. Then johsh Cookie Miller the basketball player,
27:29
the greatest athletes ever, one of the greatest. Well he's a great person
27:33
too, Yes, he is. That thing about Josh, I never called
27:34
him Cookie. I called him Josh. If I talk about Cookie, that's
27:37
his dadd is Cookie. Yeah, he's Josh. Pro basketball player over sin
27:41
and played in the Nebraska Kayseean Haley he won to Kennedy big time running back.
27:47
Yes, on the team. I had boy Tubby Robin Williams. They
27:52
called him. He's in the fift he's been officiating forty years. Tubby Solace
27:56
Nazario probably had the cook his feet. Silace Accelerat used to kill as read
28:00
he's gone. And plus he's a basketball player too. Duran work One,
28:03
who played quarterback, went to g UP and left Stonewall went to Saint Organs
28:08
into g UP. J. C. Morris Darry and Scott d. Man.
28:14
Yes, sir, get the Viking. Yes, Ohio State. Watch
28:18
do you know why he went to Ohio State? I tell people this.
28:21
They had the same colored Stonewall they do, they do. That's why the
28:26
man was a Harvard player. Yes he was, Yes, he was j
28:30
R. Kenny Wayne Casey. Wayne played basketball in the state. He's coaching
28:34
basketball now. He's like one of the leading scores of well in State.
28:38
Yeah, he took us to the Championshiplice Sanders in the Hall of Fame in
28:42
Jacksonville, Jacksonville State, Jacksonville. Bosi played that. Yes, some chance
28:48
knocks. Probably the hardest working vm My, vm My teren Rush, big
28:52
time Eastern Michigan kJ waterman if you know him, JJ Water, he's a
28:56
baller. Michael Kerrey wanted the respect the law is in years. My main
29:00
man I nicknamed him black Magic. That's him. That's Mike. Then you
29:07
had Kevin Lee for Western Peace, Mike Mason, Skip Mason's son, all
29:11
the Cunningham's very and Donald m State Hall of Famers. Yeah, all the
29:17
cunningham It's just so many. And if I left anybody else, it's by
29:19
accident. So Jose's names came to my head. I probably I probably coached
29:25
over maybe ten fifteen thousand west Side kids, you know, doing that frame
29:30
thirty years they come in huge, man, Well what happened? Was I
29:33
ended up coaching a grandson of one of my players I coached at Wilson.
29:37
Hell, wow, did you coach do? Yes? Yes, the NFL
29:41
player, that's right, Let me ask him the repents? Was that another
29:48
NFL guy? Let me ask this question because because I have said this and
29:52
they talk about this, you've heard me talk about this before. All of
29:56
those names playing NFL, playing NBA, all that kind of stuff. Why
30:04
does the state why do we not acknowledge those players? I don't care if
30:08
you've got a year in that's a year that somebody else didn't get, Like,
30:15
why do we not celebrate well because those athletes? I don't know if
30:19
it's cause to the athletes our name. But I do know I recognize we
30:23
are in West Virginia and sometimes if it's not real big news, there's no
30:27
news, but to us it's begun. So maybe need to get it in
30:30
And I died our black newspaper. Yeah, I think that's what. I
30:34
think. That's probably is a step because I think if it's not directly ready
30:37
to WVU, it's not really covered well. And get I get to hold
30:41
Marshall WVU sing because you know, they're the big schools and we cheer for
30:45
them. We cheer for Marshall, we cheer for WU and once you left
30:51
there, wherever you go. But then we always want to talk about,
30:56
you know, a particular person who went to the pros or this particular person
31:00
did this. But we got a host of people who got an opportunity to
31:06
play on Sunday, play in the NBA, and we don't run up.
31:08
We don't even want to bring him, like into a list. Can we
31:11
put a list out? Can we can we celebrate? Maybe that's our job.
31:15
Maybe we do that. You had a good list, that's just some
31:19
Now it's more you know, they're just sitting at the table in the one
31:22
eating breakfast. I said, write some names down and and and you coached
31:26
primarily junior high middle school coach six seven years at Capital the Capitol okay basketball.
31:33
Okay coach Cluck Staff okay, seven years a cap nice and you're currently
31:38
high school coach girls basketball, Night Trill coach with three of my ex players
31:44
and the Jones, Pat Jones and j R. King. We're having a
31:47
great time. And that tree is crazy. You see that tree. That
31:49
tree as wild. It's a great time down there, man, and we're
31:52
what they're doing is to change the conception of how nitri is. There.
31:56
Used to be a time Nightrill wouldn't look there from the West side in the
32:00
positive way. Now we've got west side down at nightro working with their kids.
32:05
They said, well, you know what them people started int that bad.
32:07
Some pretty decent people up there, and plus they know how to win.
32:10
Yeah, maybe you guys can can can reach reach down to the youth,
32:17
to the youth. Listen, what is that? What is what is
32:22
the status of that situation? Now? They still got to travel out of
32:25
county to play. Yeah, we got we're basically gonna be in Parkersburg.
32:31
That's crazy. It is how you play it. They don't make no sense.
32:37
And you should be a lawsuit. I don't know what the bylaws are.
32:42
Can you just set who you want in your own league and use county
32:45
funds and county facilities that everybody pays on the right, it's it's it's it's
32:50
political now right now, it's political souse everybody because everybody's trying to get in.
32:53
Ain't nobody won't nobody, won't nobody step up. There's not a politician
32:58
that's going to step up. And that because here's the thing, nobody in,
33:04
no no coach. Okay. So they voted in, they voted in
33:07
a new president who is dying the powers to be OKAYI which there is about
33:15
the local league? Yeah, just the local league, Like there's no power.
33:19
Like you don't have a power. You you're the president of your your
33:22
youth. Gonna keep me from that plan. Then a whole community, you
33:25
can make a whole community three community community gun Bar Charleston and South Charlestan.
33:30
You can make them not be able to play because you say they're not in
33:36
your league, and and and they're gonna use everybody's facility and and the board
33:42
of Education won't say nothing. Look, the politicians won't say nothing. It's
33:46
a situation that is really sad. But I know, and you know the
33:50
reason that those three communities excluded, and it's blatant. And I don't care
33:54
how you play it and how you say it. That ain't right. So
33:58
how it needs to be fixed. If I could be a part of trying
34:00
to find out what's going on, because that's not right, man, that's
34:04
just not right. That's wrong. Well, the gentleman, the gentleman who
34:07
is the president of the league, the league that we should be in is
34:10
night. I'm just saying he's in. I'm just saying he's in Nitra.
34:16
All right, Well, you might want to let me know who's your name.
34:20
I can do that. You can write it down piece of paper,
34:23
because I mean, that's just not right. It's it's just there's no And
34:29
what's what bothers me the most is that you you can see it, like
34:34
I mean, you can see what's happening. We come to we let's not
34:39
go down there. We'll be here all night talking about because we want to
34:44
celebrate you, coach. We appreciate you through your absolute legend in the game.
34:50
So many people to be great. Passing for in that tree that you
34:52
just named and many more is powerful. It's powerful. Good people to thank
34:58
you. But it does come just so you know it. To me when
35:02
people talk about who's who's Is it the coach, is it the players?
35:07
To me in this situation, it's too You're a common denominator too much.
35:12
Yes, And so you you have to be that. You have to be
35:16
that star that's traveling around touching these kids and the kids that people say are
35:22
hard to get to their life. Ain't got a chance you going deep into
35:25
that community and fixing it. But you know what all I do is tell
35:30
them I love thee man. It might be not to kind of love they
35:32
used to, but I still love you. But we're gonna do it this
35:38
way. Man, Thanks for having me on Fellows. Come back. Yeah,
35:44
you definitely got to come back. Some people with me, some of
35:47
my ex players with me. That'll work, all right, Ladies and gentlemen,
35:52
will take a quick break and we'll be right back. Follow us on
35:55
Facebook at Let's Talk, Curly, visit w c HS, now work dot
36:00
com slash Let's Talk for more. Sponsorship opportunities are available. Contact Carl Lee
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Radio dot com, or call free zero four three four two eight one three
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one. Ask Carl a question or comment on current to our previous episode.
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To visit Let's Talk Carl Lee on Facebook, Like, rate and subscribe from
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your podcast service to help more people find Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now,
36:30
all right, back to the conversation, Coach Swain had to leave,
36:32
and Hollis like, like, there was probably one man. You know,
36:38
I'm thinking to myself, like the whole his whole thing's still surrounded itself in
36:47
discipline. Yeah, it comes down to discipline, and he's gonna hold you
36:52
accountable. M h. And I think, I think, And again he
36:58
made the point about parents basically got no play in it. Yeah, it's
37:05
his discipline and you gotta trust that. I just don't know. I just
37:07
don't know if if we're ready for that. Well, I would push back
37:15
against that a little bit and say that it, uh, it came down
37:20
to love. I would say that it's it's love and discipline, you know
37:25
what I mean. Because he was at a time when a lot of our
37:30
youth they needed, uh, someone to talk to someone to hold him accountable.
37:36
But you had to show him love at the same time, because love
37:39
without discipline, it just don't work. And he's coached during some very very
37:45
very tromosuous times in the eighties and the nineties. So like I said,
37:50
Couch, I I think it would come down to, you know, love
37:52
and discipline. You know what I mean. Yeah, he did, he
37:54
did. He did claim the love on the on the on the back end.
38:00
But that's that. But that's that same mother father love and discipline together.
38:07
You know that's not but no, but but I say it's a father's
38:10
love and discipline because again, yes, I can give you that you're dealing
38:14
with a community, but some moms, some moms, single moms. I
38:20
think statistics don't bear that. Statistics don't bear that if we look at statistics.
38:24
But what I'm saying is that I think you when you're dealing with young
38:28
black men, particularly coming up in a harsh environment, you need someone like
38:34
a coach. Swain, like I said, he talked at how he walked
38:37
it. He lived in the community, he taught work, coach in the
38:40
community. He was a person of the community. And to my point last
38:44
week, he didn't try, you know, he didn't try to branch out
38:47
and do a thousand different things. His discipline, his teaching, his love
38:52
was in the context of athletics that could grab guys. Because I seen guys
38:57
who were great up until junior high, middle school, and then when they
39:00
left Coach Swayne, they just couldn't function as well because they didn't have that
39:04
guy with them. Because and and and and again. For me, I
39:08
think I was truly truly blessed because every level that I went to, I
39:14
had that coach. You know, but you also have those parents too,
39:20
Yes, yes, you had to. You had the best you had to
39:24
make that case I had. I had the parents who were not going to
39:29
interact with the coach. They weren't gonna say what you should have, what
39:32
should have happened, or he should be playing, or he shouldn't be.
39:37
And in addition to that, regardless of whatever the coach was going on,
39:40
they was going to hold you to the same standard, if not a higher
39:45
standard. Yes, so the standard home with you. And what I'm saying
39:49
with a lot of the kids that Coach Swain hadn't getting them some great parents
39:52
over there. Not to disparage everybody but some of those kids just didn't have
39:55
that standard at home for whatever reason, and he was able to put that
40:00
standard on them and lift them up and make it or in the cases that
40:04
the parents were of the standard, he maintained it. It didn't dip off,
40:07
right, you didn't like if you were at home, it's gonna be
40:09
exactly gonna say, or higher, higher, it could be, higher,
40:13
could be, And I think in the sports realm it is higher because again,
40:17
jumping off sides, not bringing your shoes, not having this, you
40:22
know, being late to that, everything that you do when you're there is
40:27
a potential situation that that that a coach can discipline you on. Yeah,
40:31
And I would just make the case that you know, and it's something like
40:34
I said, I'm I'm from the community. However I went to school outside
40:37
for a variety of reasons. And I feel like I never got that because
40:40
I always wanted that with coach Swain, but I was able to get that
40:45
through other coaches. But I think the beautiful thing about coach Swayin and coach
40:49
j R. Kinney, they were really other community, you know what I
40:52
mean. It was a it was a because I know you've talked about that
40:53
sort of the loss of community. When we look at sports and community,
40:58
we've lost it. It's gone, It's gone, you know what I mean?
41:00
And I think he was the last of an era. And I would
41:01
make the case, whoever is whoever charged with if you're ever hearing this,
41:07
coach Swain should be in the West Virginia Sports Hall of Fame. Oh,
41:12
whoever does that? Hollis, I should should have been there already, Hollis.
41:16
When I started going through and looking at at his his his bio,
41:20
when he sent me his bio, I was like, well, wait a
41:22
minute, is there anybody have that record? Has anybody been that successful in
41:31
producing Again part of part of the argument, we don't know all these athletes
41:37
that that that that went. We know them at we're we're not celebrating.
41:44
It's not a list that's out there. So he doesn't have Why he has
41:47
that list, he's touched all those guys. He ain't getting credit for those
41:52
guys because they're not getting credit. But you can't have that record. You
42:00
can't have that record because that's a better record than anybody. I'm gonna put
42:05
it up against any coach that's come out in the state of Western yeah.
42:07
I mean because when you look at those guys, when we talk about all
42:12
those NFL guys that he just named that's off the top of his head.
42:15
I mean we're talking about maybe ten fifteen guys he just named. It are
42:19
NFL guys that guys that played in college, guys that are Hall of famers
42:22
at their respective universities. I mean, he's common. He's a common denominator.
42:29
In addition, now, right when you look at his tree, he
42:31
has a two time state championship coaching Pat Jones, who he coached and now
42:37
and he's on assistant on that program. He's one of the greatest coaches in
42:42
our state's history. And he needs to be celebrated in the Hall of Fame.
42:45
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna prick this
42:49
little hole in this in this argument, just specifically, just because I think
42:54
I should. You can't look at him. You can't look at him as
43:04
a black man coaching on the West Side. You can't. You can't look
43:07
at him that way. No, he is a man, a great coach
43:17
that coaches men, women, young, old. He's coaching. He is
43:22
a great leader, period. So don't compare him to that coach, that
43:30
coach, that coach. But if because even if you try to do that
43:35
the wins and losses, he gonna win that one too, So he wins
43:39
the win losses, and he wins the whole argument about the effort. The
43:45
kid he's talking about, send him home, brought him back, Send him
43:50
home, brought him back, send him home. He's one of our and
43:52
the kid he's specifically talking about was one of our greatest community leaders right now,
43:57
come on, yeah, but I would argue, I see where you're
44:00
going with that, But I think that we have to acknowledge that, we
44:04
have to acknowledge that I don't think somebody else could have had the impact that
44:07
he had. And I'm not talking about just on the fielder, on the
44:10
court, on the track. I'm talking about in the community. I mean,
44:15
because when we talk about all the great athletes the NFL, the college,
44:19
the d one guys that he coached, it's a whole nother list of
44:22
those same guys who are doctors, who are lawyers, who are activists,
44:25
who are run companies right now that he touched and was able to instill those
44:30
values and lessons in. So that is the fact that him being a black
44:34
man in a black community during a time in which there were no black men
44:39
of status in the community, he deserves all the credit. Yeah, and
44:45
the recognition that he hasn't got Yeah. And you And to be honest,
44:52
I don't even know how you ignore it, Like I don't know, like
44:54
somebody, some media person has those stats. Yeah, And I think that
45:00
we and I think that maybe this is a good jump in our point because
45:02
I think that he needs to be in the Hall of Fame. Yes,
45:05
And it can't wait till fifty years from now or twenty years. It needs
45:09
to happen to media immediately. So maybe maybe there's something we take on.
45:15
Well, what coach I'm trying to ask the question, is there a better
45:20
record coach on that's coach all levels? Men? I don't know. I
45:24
mean, I'm sure in these pockets of communities throughout us, say, I
45:29
know, we got the guy the brother, a man who is a high
45:30
school, middle school coach down there for years, and so I'm sure there's
45:35
great coaches, But I don't know in our community. When you just named
45:38
off all those NFL guys that you coach, when you name off all the
45:42
records as you said, and the wins and losses and just the impact.
45:45
Man, he is what sports is. What about seventy five of eighty games?
45:52
Yeah, he's won seventy five. Let's just say the last seventy five
45:58
or the last eighty games. He's won seventy five of them. And that's
46:01
only for a little bit of a time period. We're not talking about that
46:06
the past decade. Yeah, And we're not talking about That's what I'm saying
46:07
ten years. We're not talking about the other thirty five years. No,
46:10
because if you start adding that up, then that's it goes crazy. And
46:14
house he got a thirty six thirty six game win street Yeah, yeah,
46:20
who has that? Yeah? And why do we not even know that?
46:23
But I think some people argue, he it's middle school. But again,
46:27
when you take that, when you take that in conjunction with the guys that
46:30
he's coaching, what those guys have gone on to do, it validates everything.
46:37
I don't care if it was you, you know what I'm saying,
46:42
because he's because because what you do is you follow that trail of that young
46:49
athlete from youth football to middle school football, to high school football, to
46:54
college football to the NFL, and and and who's the common nominator in that
47:00
piece, who's the guy who took and rooted something into that athlete to to
47:07
go that direction. And again that's the argument, because that's the undeniable argument
47:13
for Hall of Fame, for accolades, for awards named after it's what happens
47:17
to those guys once they come through that program and you see the results.
47:22
You see not only the wins, and we can argue whether that was a
47:23
validate or whether we're on account middle school records. But what you can't argue
47:28
is those guys that went on to be lawyers, doctor, community leaders,
47:31
NFL players in the NBA, pro basketball, baseball and all that. That's
47:37
what you can't argue. And and I'll ask this question because because this is
47:44
this is what I've always heard. You coach to make these kids better people.
47:50
Yeah, you know, not necessarily a pro athlete, Yeah, just
47:52
better people. What's he doing? Yeah? But make it. But when
47:59
we talk about Hall of Fame, you gotta have a metric that I can't
48:02
just say better people. He's got the metrics. He got he's got the
48:07
metrics and and and yeah, he's got both. He got all of it
48:13
he's is supposed to be. And if you call if they've called the West
48:16
Side the worst place, you know, it's a tough place to come out
48:20
of there. You know all those kind of stories that you hear about he's
48:25
he's dug in and pulled these kids out. Yeah, one hundred percent.
48:30
I mean, like I said, I can test them. I can.
48:34
I saw with my own two eyes. I mean, if it's one thing
48:37
that I mean, I would have loved to play for Coach Swain. There's
48:39
if there's just one thing I probably could have did over keeping everything else to
48:44
say, maybe spending a year, because I've seen it with my own two
48:47
eyes. I seen y'all go to their practice when they used to practice a
48:51
cable field, and I would just kind of watch how he, you know,
48:54
would relate to the guys, get on the guys. Was he a
48:57
screamer? Not necessarily a he talked his little ish, wasn't necessarily excreamer,
49:02
but he was just I'm telling you to me, when I saw him,
49:06
how I viewed it. It's like your dad. It's like your dad and
49:07
your uncle being out there. He gonna talk to you how you need to
49:10
be talked to you know you rough, he gonna talk to you rough,
49:14
but it's always that can pass your empathy of love attached to that, so
49:17
you know it's not just coming from a mean spirited place. See, I
49:21
think, I think, and when I was talking about like like Damon,
49:24
as hard as I was on Damon and as as challenging as he made it
49:31
in hindsight, now he looks at that and says, man, coach was
49:37
really trying to do his best to get me to be the best way or
49:40
I can be the best person I can be. It takes you some time
49:45
to to to understand that. You know, I couldn't understand why Sonny was
49:51
so hard on me. You look, you look back at it, and
49:54
you say, if I'd had anything less than that, I'd have been partying,
50:00
thinking, oh I'm great at Marshall. We ain't wining no games,
50:02
but you know, you hanging out and you're thinking, man, yeah,
50:06
I'm the man. And he's telling me you ain't you ain't even you ain't
50:09
stratch a certain and see, and I think that you know a guy like
50:14
coach Swayne offered all that, and then to our conversation last week when we
50:19
talked about what are those attributes of a coach. And the first thing I
50:21
said was teacher. Not only did he offer all that, but he's an
50:24
excellent teacher on top of that. So he's able to communicate in a fashion
50:30
that's understandable, that's relatable, and can pass the information along, you know.
50:36
And I just think that's the great skill of it all. Being able
50:38
to and again being able to manage the madness, being able to you know,
50:43
you know, be in a strategic mind athletically, and also be able
50:47
to communicate effectively to those individuals in these type of situations is just masterful and
50:53
and it's and I think it's important because the task that he has that he's
51:00
taken on and what he has done over forty plus years is he's taken the
51:06
community that everybody has talked about as a bad community, blah blah blah blah,
51:10
all that kind of stuff, and he's found these stones, these stars
51:15
that have been able to come out of there and become something. And how
51:22
do you like to me? That's you can't ignore that. And the thing
51:28
is he's taking that same philosophy, that same type of thinking, and now
51:34
he's at Nitro in the community that doesn't necessarily have those same problem that's vastly
51:37
different than the one he came from. And guess what, you got the
51:40
same level of success. You got two championships in the last four years and
51:45
probably the best women's basketball girls basketball program in the valley or in the state.
51:50
Again, is him. That's what I'm saying. And you cannot deny
51:57
it. And the thing he took it to capital and like I'm saying,
52:00
you can't deny that, and and and and well, we're beating this horse
52:05
up. But I think it's deserving. Yes, but I'm gonna make I'm
52:08
gonna make the plea that somebody has to make the consideration. Look at the
52:15
idea that the reasonings of who this man is and what he has done for
52:22
the athletes that he has touched, not just the student but the student athletes
52:28
that he has touched. And you cannot tell me that's as great as anybody
52:35
else's individual achievement deserving to go into a home. Until your point, when
52:39
we look at the holistic job of a coach, When we look at it
52:44
holistically, what is the the the intent of this position. Nobody probably is
52:51
feeled that in this community, maybe in this state, has fulfilled that better
52:53
than him, and and and we're getting to a place where that they're not
52:57
interested in that. We're getting to a place I think. I think the
53:00
coaches are, yes, I think I just don't think the culture is.
53:06
And I think the culture drives kind of what's important. Maybe maybe it is,
53:09
maybe I think the heart of coaches, but I think the coach is
53:13
just it's a little toxic right now when it comes athletic. But again,
53:15
you're talking about a coaching a coaching staff walking away from the head coach.
53:21
Because we've seen that before, right, No, I haven't the whole staff.
53:25
You've seen them like I think we Okay, so yes, I've seen
53:30
them before, seen that before. Yeah, you've seen that, you know
53:35
time at the time. But I just think, like I said, I
53:37
think the pressure of because when we look at even those as systems that you
53:40
mentioned, when you look at the pressure of kind of what they're going through
53:44
because a lot of the times the parents ain't talking to the head man.
53:46
They when I was assistant, I got all the parents crap, I got
53:52
it all. You get it all to the good, the bad, and
53:53
ugly because they feel like they could talk to you so it's it's pressure on
53:58
everybody. I just think the culture is bad because again, if I'm the
54:00
offensive coordinator, if I'm stifled by him, we disagree, d da da
54:04
da, I can't. There's just no time for me to, like you
54:07
said, pay my dues and then just move on. Right, So,
54:13
ladies and gentlemen, I'm gonna make the case that the individual that we had
54:19
coach swain On today, probably to me, in my view, it's probably
54:30
the most interesting to me just because of how humble he was, but how
54:35
certain he was and knowing of his success. And I think he manages that
54:43
well because you could be you know, there could be an arrogance to it,
54:46
but no, he's his is just a reality like he knows what it
54:51
is, he knows that it's there, and there's a certainty of wherever I'm
54:57
coaching, this is this this this is gonna follow me. Success is going
55:01
to follow me. These kids are going to become somebody because I'm here because
55:07
I'm not gonna let them fail. And I think I think what makes it
55:13
important is we're in a we're in a in a time now where we're coaching
55:22
is sometimes about yourself. Sometimes it's not you know, it's just about the
55:28
win. I think coach wants to win, but I think he he I
55:31
think he wants the overall development of the athlete that he touches. And I
55:36
just don't think, I don't think that we've had anybody remotely as close to
55:42
perfection for our young kids coming through the hell. You know. So all
55:50
right, we're gonna get out of here. We'll uh, we'll be back.
55:53
So we'll talk to you later we're out. The opinions expressed on this
55:58
program do not necessarily reflect the opinions of WVRC Media, it's management, employees,
56:04
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