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How Learning to Soothe His Newborn Daughter Shaped Peter Varberg's Coaching · I Don't Know You

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Matt and welcome to my recorded conversations for I Don't Know You.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: My search in learning from leaders about their stories and applying their lessons
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: to my own journey as I seek to better understand myself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoy what you hear or have a guest you'd like me to ask on, You just have to, uh...
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is Propagation Central over here.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I just clipped a piece of one of my wife's old plants to see if I can get it to root.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's my sister's little aquarium.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm watching.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's on a trip.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of fish is that?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're the little low-bio-load fish.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it's called.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were born in there?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: You buy them like that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: But basically like that's an ecosystem.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's no filter.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: The plants clean the water.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So all you do is feed the fish.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So because of how small of a tank that is.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You need some small fish.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like the bio load would be too high.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So like for example, these are ones that I'm going to plant in my tank.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see these roots developing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And since it's technically an air plant.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like the leaves are out of the tank.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: It can draw up a lot more nutrients than water plants.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get into this?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is like, I got nerdy about ecosystems.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Starting with what's called natural pools or swim ponds.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Basically instead of chlorine.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: You have a swimming area and then you have a planted zone.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it filters the water and you can drink the water.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's that clean.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got really into those because they feel like you're creating like a mountain spring.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But you can swim in.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you can swim in it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And plants and water features and stuff.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I really like that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then...
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can't build one of those.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: The tank you saw me working on is like, here's my mini version.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole point is that it's using a lot of the same principles to make it
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: an ecosystem that cleans itself.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: But was that something you just discovered on the internet one day?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I like jumping around.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a YouTube learner.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So my algorithm is not...
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: My wife does not appreciate my algorithm.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not Mr.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Beast videos.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's stuff that teaches you things.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she likes funny things.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I'm like, I want to learn how things work.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to me,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: on a grander note,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: because I've been on this nerdy vein for a really long time,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I like the concept of how if you think about All the agricultural metaphors and
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: the garden and all these things and taking the void and waste and bringing life
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: and being fruitful and multiplying.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of this richness to like humans have a creative design
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: where they can take something and make more out of it or in
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: the way we run businesses and design buildings or Plant gardens or farming
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: that destroys the land and all of that.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's these choices.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's crazy that a lot of my life, the spiritual conversation felt like, are you sinning?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are you not sinning?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you reading your Bible?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it seemed like these spiritual choices versus now I see how it weaves into all the things.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even how I designed my house, how I would Run a business, how I would plant a garden.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's ways where you can just like, even like your health, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can follow your circadian rhythm.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can feed it right.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can turn your body into a machine that's processing good food and creating energy.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can like get little sleep.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: You wake up and jolt it with sugar and caffeine.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you get this rush and then you crash and then you sugar caffeine.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you do this like thing where it's like,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have these inputs that work, but they're not sustainable.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's another way of doing life.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I found it in almost everything imaginable,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's a business, how you design your house.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you can choose to do it in a way that kind of flourishes and sustains.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can like,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: how do I squeeze the most possible out of this and not care what the cost is or
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: the consequence?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really fascinating to me when you like can see that playing out.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious how that ties into, I like, I just saw this little sign on your desk.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Showing up takes effort.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Showing up is enough.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Work from value, not for value.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a piece of kind of all of that or is that different?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: it's like I think people have different personalities
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: and people have different families of origin.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was a missionary kid,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: pastor's kid with a very intelligent and high standard family
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like you can't get anything wrong.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so not anything that they did poorly about raising me,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: but it's like the environment I grew up in in my developmental years taught me
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: to be very responsible and And so high senses of obligation and duty.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So in my work environment on my desk,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: it's really easy,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: especially working from home, pretty much running a business, mostly self-employed.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have leadership and support, but I'm not showing up or clocking in.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: You create this almost like a taskmaster side of yourself,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: and you have all the freedom in the world, which is almost...
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's been many years I wished I could clock out and I was just showing up as an employee.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's more speaking to that battle that I face at work where like
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: when you don't have a defined goal or limit, then what is the limit?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can just keep putting more into your business and your work and thinking I'm not enough.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious how that translates into the ecosystem of the bio...
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you look at it, if you took the idea of an ecosystem and how everything...
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's all about balance.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have a series of organisms and the layout and all those things to allow life to flourish.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you applied that same concept to our...
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Internal world or our psychological or emotional world, it's similar, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can push hard towards a goal and push myself really,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: really hard and that will get me far in life.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I can use fear tactics on myself internally.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's all sorts of ways that you can motivate yourself
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: that really long-term run you dry or long-term cause you to Be overwhelmed,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: disappointed, stressed, anxious.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think similarly,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: there's a level of kindness to yourself in a way that like,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: it's almost like if you just, I want this goal no matter what the cost.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you see this a lot with the highest performers in the world.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's almost like an obsession about being the best.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you see almost like a, again,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's not a judgment statement for these people,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: but It's very common to see the highest level having a really poor track record
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: in other facets
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: of life,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: like their marriage, family, or
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: they're really wealthy, but this area is just.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just this concept that if you're all in to be number one out
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: of eight billion, you have to sacrifice all the rest.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so just being an adult, emotionally healthy, And the most anxious, depressed generation.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to think
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: about that kind of
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: stuff.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And be like, okay, I need to make an income.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I need to grow my business.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: At what cost?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's the limit?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: What are my needs?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Versus like, again,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: if you're working in an entrepreneurial or a sales type world,
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: you can get obsessed about the constant,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: not even like competing to be the highest level.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Producer in your company or in your field, but just against yourself.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like if you're not hitting,
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: because in a business environment, you can double in a year, which is cool.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you double in a year and you expect the next year you decrease,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: you almost feel like, what am I?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can almost...
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Set these standards,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: and you're not playing based on what your family needs, your financial needs are.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're playing a game to find your identity and worth as, look, I'm the best.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that, again, the Bible's really clear, that's a source of water, but it's not living water.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: You might quench the thirst momentarily, but you'll be thirsty again very quickly.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've never really thought of like applying that fascination with ecosystems
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: or again, there's a whole realm of my hobbies or interests around that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's really important in even how I approach coaching where like a lot
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: of,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: this is not necessarily,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I intentionally am doing this,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: but I feel a lot of people that pursue support in businesses Especially being
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: in coaching as long as I have,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to work with,
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: like we have different tiers of coaching and I tend to work with people
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: that are kind of like already succeeding and they've kind of moved their way up
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: and now they're onto a bigger problem.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've gotten what I needed before and I have it,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm no longer motivated and my family's suffering and My health is suffering.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because of the journey to get to
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: that success.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a sacrifice with everything.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: But again, like a lot of times, those are conversations I have with clients.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, can we maintain a business at this level without the hours that you were used to?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how do we have a balanced ecosystem?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or like the big one is reactionary versus...
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So again it's like some people they can have a really successful business
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: but they feel like they have to grab on to everything
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: and every opportunity is urgent and an emergency if I don't have this opportunity,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: when's the next one?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Versus again some of it's how you run the business, some of it is just your minds.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Of recognizing that people need what I offer.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I will have other people that will need to work with me in the future.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Versus thinking there's kind of that scarcity in abundance.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: It almost sounds like there's some version of therapy that's happening.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: How would you distinguish therapy from... Because you're doing business coaching.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: But how would you distinguish the two?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it seems like there's a blurry line.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Very much.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: At large, it's a lot less regulated than other industries.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But coaching, the people that do work on it, ICF is the International Coaching Federation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when I went through that training,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: it actually differentiated therapy, coaching, all these different things.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's a mentor?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it put definitions.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to get the...
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: The definitions, exact.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be worthwhile to look up with AI now.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can type in and say ICF definition.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or I don't know if it's ICF that put that together, but I learned it in the training.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: The gist of what I can explain is therapy in general will be a lot more reflective.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're sort of looking back,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: asking questions about when did this start,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: processing and kind of gaining freedom of From something that usually family
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: of origin,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: developmental years,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: you learn some way of processing the world or some sort of defense mechanism
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: that worked in this season.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's causing havoc on your life now.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of learn why it was helpful and you unlearn it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of back reflection and digging kind of deep into the source of where that came from.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching is very forward, like action item, do these steps.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: What problems are we solving?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Setting goals, things like that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So again, in general, that's a very simple way to look at the difference.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you can talk about emotions and emotional intelligence and emotional health
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: from different facets, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone might be overly anxious.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: A coach is not going to ask them about their childhood life and when that started.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's therapist's job.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I stay out of that for good reasons.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can point people in the right direction.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can share my personal experience with therapy and encourage them because it's getting more...
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's way different in the last decade.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: But for a while it was like there was a stigma against therapy.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big therapy fan.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as a coach it's almost like I can...
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Help you deal with your anxiety by setting up some processes and systems
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: and taking action to move forward versus finding out what's the root
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: and how do I overcome that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's helpful.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned growing up in a missionary family overseas,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: like all of the things that apply to an upbringing like that.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: But then also talking about this,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't want to put words in your mouth,
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: but like Growing up in a pretty rigid structure of there were certain expectations
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: that had to be met in certain ways.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: How did that kind of shape you?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're doing coaching now, but you've done a lot of different things leading up to that.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you've been doing this for a long time.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: So how did that upbringing kind of inform some of the choices that were made right
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: after that upbringing, I guess?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one of the funny choices, I didn't really think of college as an optional thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, finish high school, you go to college.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know it took longer than four years.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, you graduate in four years, this is the norm.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is how school works.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't until I got towards the end of my college career,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: it's not a right or wrong,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: but I started meeting people that were transfer students,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: people that had different journeys than mine.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, you can take a year off.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: In my mind, I thought, When you graduate middle school, go to high school.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's also an American thing, I think, in general.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people will take a year off between high school and college and stuff, too.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's a lot of things working at it at once.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about specifically the Philippines,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Southeast Asia,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of stereotypes around Asian school systems and strictness.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was also in...
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: The early years of elementary in a Catholic private school.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like when I came in from recess, if I was stinky, I might get in trouble.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: They would smell, they would check your fingernail length.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Get a slap on the hand.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: like there were a lot of things international
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: that like now modern sound like child abuse.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It did not feel like that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're in trouble,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: you squat in the back of the room and then they put textbooks on your hands
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: and you sit there.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good workout.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: During class.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Great workout.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: But again, there's these high standards, very heavy memorization, test taking.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think of doing a lot of test prep,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: and even in elementary school,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: we would have multiple hundred question tests for each subject.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd have a whole exam week as a third grader, and you'd have these big tests.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of this pressure,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: expectation,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: get a good grade,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: you think about being blonde hair,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: blue eyed in a country with how rare it was in the Philippines.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're just noticed.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So my self-consciousness was off the charts because everywhere I went,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I felt because I was literally being watched.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so just being aware of instead of just being free to be myself
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: and do what I felt like doing,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: there was this constant You
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: were like the kid with social media now
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: before social media.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or like someone that had a following.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so like that were some of the less obvious challenges.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you take pastor, missionary kid.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like everywhere I went, people knew my dad because there's this six foot three white guy.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Knows everybody in our city in Tacloban and speaks fluent.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I, what I is the language there, but my dad knows like five languages.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be in circumstances where people would,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: he would make a reservation on the phone and then he'd show up and
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: then people would just like,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: it took him three or four different tries to figure out,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: this is the Paul Varberg that I spoke to on the phone.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're also like, Paul Varberg, that's a weird name.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, the Varberg, that was a giveaway.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: so those are some of the things that the scholastic pressure,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: the being stared at everywhere I went,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: the everyone knowing my father and in turn assuming who I was.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then understanding that there's an element that my parents' reputation is
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: at stake based on my actions.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have parents that are known and specifically Christian world.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of pressure.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, pastor's kids can definitely relate with that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's like, you feel like you have to be a standard.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're already, like you're born into a fishbowl.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some kind of prying eyes that are always like, oh, is he going to mess up?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And even if that's not actually what they're thinking, then you perceive that on some level.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been interesting as all of my siblings,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: there's three of us,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: have gotten therapy over the years and then there's some development.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, you too.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't alone in this.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I was weird.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, yeah,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: the environment in which we grew up in triggered these responses and these kind
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: of defense mechanisms or ways of seeing the world or stories that we told ourselves.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that's so fascinating to me about that type of upbringing,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: though,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: is that for better or for worse,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: there are some really big assets that you now have because of an upbringing like
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm projecting a little bit on there, so correct me if I'm wrong.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Annunciation is great.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking to English, non-native English speakers.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: People make fun of me now because sometimes I speak very clearly and pronounce all
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: of my words because...
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: You grew up speaking to people that don't speak English and you have to.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like the movies where you yell louder and you say the word slower,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: but you have to pronounce.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when you're learning Spanish and you listen to a native speaker full speed
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: and you're like, I know those words, but I can't figure it out.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, there's the The relatability, and just the general interest.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember the podcast,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: but they talked about some people,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: and I think a lot of our culture nowadays,
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: especially politically in America, is very drawn to bonding.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you are like me, we're the same, we bond, we form a relationship this way.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other type is bridging,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: where you're very different from me,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to bridge that gap and form a relationship.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so as an MK or growing up overseas or third culture kid is another one of those labels.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't have any choice but to bridge.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone is so different from you.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you either bridge or you have no friends.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so and then when you come to America, like you're different here, too.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You look the same, but it wasn't till the culture shock is probably pretty crazy, too.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not so bad in the Philippines.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I never had to be fluent.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So many Filipinos speak English.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Philippines loves American culture.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: So growing up in the household I did,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: going to an international school for middle school,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: high school, it's not like speaking a full different language in Thailand.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: all that to say,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: when I came here,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was maybe almost done with college when I finally met people that
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: the first thing they didn't They learned about me was not that I was from
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: the Philippines.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So like when you're,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: if you just think about most schools in America,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: every year there's a new kid, teachers introduce.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so like the first thing anyone learns about me is you're from the Philippines.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then there's that natural, like, he's weird.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Who's this?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so like when I was here, you don't feel at home or you don't feel the same.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a lot of culture shock coming here?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: From like growing up in the Philippines?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd be here every fifth year.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So four years there, one year here.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So like when I was two, you don't really notice that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: When I was second grade, it's like you form relationships with anyone.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sixth grade was really tough.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: It overlapped with like puberty and like all of these things.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Super fun.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a hot mess.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, everybody's got to go through that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think Dr. Dobson talked about the inferiority complex.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in the midst of that then where it was like,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: you just think you're ugly and you hate yourself and you like all these things
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: where you're just wrestling.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then my junior year,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: it was like,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been going to an international school long enough that like,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: that wasn't so weird.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: There was some bridging that was happening there.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then for college,
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: like the summer after my junior,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: between junior and senior year,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did an internship in the summer and went door to door.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very familiar with suburban America by that point.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of like the crash course,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: where by the time I came for college,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had spent more time around everyday Americans than most of my peers.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I got that in a two month stint.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: During that internship.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, well,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it was a month and a half the first round,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: but I did that for eight different summers.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So like thousands of different homes over that period.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about a crucible of customer
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: service and sales.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Emotional intelligence, problem solving.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are some of the strengths of the program I was in was at an early age,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: you don't get a parent to fix your issues.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get a manager.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: You are out on your own and things go wrong.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to figure out... How old were you?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did that from 17 through 25.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a developmental stage in and of itself.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this is before going to Point Loma?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Through Point Loma.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Through Point Loma.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I was able to go to Point Loma.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you paid your way through college.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then...
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I got some decent scholarships.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if my parents were Nazarene missionaries, it would be easy.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, mom and dad.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you want to just switch maybe?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you switch?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was something where like the Cal Grant and some of that stuff,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: we were so far below the poverty line, American wise.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: My parents had like invested with their inheritance to have homes for their retirement.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So according to the government, oh, you have a house you don't live in.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're wealthy.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so like some of the financial aid compared to some
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: of my peers was not what it could have been.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there was an element of being like fiscally responsible and
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: then like getting punished for it basically.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: it's like you think about because it's an investment property if you own
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: a home you don't live in.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like when the whole reason you're doing that is to pay off the mortgage
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: because you technically can't afford the mortgage if renters aren't in it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Different situation.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you go to Point Loma.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Had anybody gone there in your family before?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: My brother.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So he's two years older.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: We'd done a little Southern California private Christian school tour.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at a lot of them.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mine was like, I only applied there.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my mind, I was like, well, it's pretty.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: My brother's there.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have...
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: My dad did this fun thing.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think this was really awesome that he did it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: But when we were kids,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: middle school probably,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: he went around Tacloba in our city and he brought us into the offices
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: of these successful people he knew,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: business owners, in different industries of work.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he basically,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: similar to how we would have a podcast, he sat us down as kids that were very...
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Disinterested and would ask these questions with us to try
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: to understand what did this person study?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: What caused them to get into this field?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so like he kind of held our hand and was almost like he studied journalism in college too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was almost like bringing us along to like, hey,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want my boys to learn how to make a decision about college,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: which was very intentional for him.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: But what was funny,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of joke about what I walked away with is
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: that nobody ends up doing what they studied.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I'm going to study what's interesting.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I studied graphic design because I was doing video editing and Photoshop
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: and all that stuff.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, that's really fun.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I found out you can double major, I was like two for the price of one.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, sign
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: me up.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And And then I added film.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the grade school
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: had prepped you for like the double major.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then part of it was like some people are like,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Point Loma, every college is different, but like there is a maximum credit.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Ours was like 17 units per semester that you can take for normal tuition.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you go above that, you pay extra.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can go below that and pay the same.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, every semester, the mission was like, I have to fill these 17 credits.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm paying for 17.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to take...
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I have peers that were like, I have an easy semester, 12 units.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Eight units, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like...
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: What a ripoff.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're paying all this money and you're only getting eight.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I got 17.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So for me,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like collecting and I'm like,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: oh, I'm going to take martial arts elective PE class because it's one unit.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, yeah, so I didn't technically finish with the double.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: There was like one class that was like three units and the cost of a semester
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: to be able to write major versus minor was not worth it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Minor for film or minor for graphic design?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Film kind of outcompeted.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I started with graphic design.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if I understood that I could study film
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: when I started.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my freshman year learning about that major.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: In one of the, like, you have the sheets of paper.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait, I can study this?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember just thinking like, no way.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Where has this been all my life?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let me study that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't even sound like school.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So anyways, yeah, my brother was there.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the funny thing, well, bad circumstances.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: But he was two years older, so he was there his sophomore year.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: He transferred in.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so his junior year would have been my freshman year.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then that summer, he got in a really bad car accident.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he had to take a year off to recover.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started as a freshman where I looked a lot like him.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And people would stare at me funny in the cafeteria because they were confused.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Phil was gone.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was in the Philippines, you know, for a year with my parents.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now there was this new kid that looks like Phil.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd have all these weird interactions with people that would like,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: do you have a brother?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, my freshman year, although I'd planned to...
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I had that kind of leap
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: of independence.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: You planned to reinvent yourself and instead you were sort of a doppelganger.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was helpful to have more connections.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Being in the biggest school I've ever been at.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, 2500 undergrad is tiny in the college world,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: but for an MK with a graduating class of 75.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a lot more than my homeschool class.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: There were only 20 people in our homeschool class.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: But same thing with Biola.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was a far cry.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was bigger than Buen Loma.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like 2,600 underground.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably bigger now.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're limited by the ocean.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot add anymore.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: When you're on the cliffs overlooking
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: the Pacific.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Biola, you can kind of explain.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Disneyland's right there.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we're encroaching on there.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know how they feel about their real estate.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you get into film...
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: You said you got into it earlier.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were doing it and then you went to Point Loma.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I had these really lonely summers growing up because I went to school on
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: a different island in Manila, the capital.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I lived on late day in Toclova.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would live in a dorm.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I had 16 brothers.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I lived on campus.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was just around extrovert's paradise.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you'd have four breaks.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I went home four times a year, like between each quarter.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then the summer breaks,
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be home and the Philippines schedule,
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: because of just the climate there, the summer is different.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't have middle school, so my peers went to college at 16.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I would come home to where I went to elementary school,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: where a lot of my peers were on different schedules and we'd grown apart.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was basically like,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting around our house and maybe doing some stuff with our parents on
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: the weekends.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: But the summers were rough in terms of like having community.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I discovered things like Flash animation,
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like up in there all day building cartoons.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or when I discovered Adobe Premiere, I took the family.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you...
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Online videos were just starting.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube was not big.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I remember finding videos on all sorts of different platforms,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: but I think my dad had the software,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: and we had footage from our little outings,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: and so I was trying to make family vacation videos.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that was somewhere sophomore, junior year.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so by senior and high school, people knew that I knew what I was doing.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: You were the guy.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Video in chapel that would announce the next banquet or the next event.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was somehow involved either filming or editing.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't really recognize graduating, but I'm like, oh, I can do more of that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was all in one.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it was like my brother was exceptionally good at drawing.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: He can copy photos.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always had the story that I suck at art.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't draw.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: My handwriting's terrible.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't really pursue art at all.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I found out graphic design, flash animation, and I figured I could do...
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was a creative outlet that looked decent.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where drawing or painting looked like garbage.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that for me was a very exciting,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: almost creative awakening to be able to like, oh, just because...
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Creativity is associated with drawing and art in school doesn't mean I'm not creative.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just could not create or didn't have the skills in that media.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And when I found a media that I could do efficiently or decently, I really enjoyed it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: I got hooked.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there at Point Loma,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: You started doing film classes,
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: getting into film,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: like I'm assuming you were watching a bunch of movies before Point Loma
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: and getting kind of excited about like, oh, this is the process that they did.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's how they shot this scene in Lord of the Rings or whatever.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: So before Point Loma, movie tickets in the Philippines are $2 a pop, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And because it's so hot, the mall is the place to go.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: The Philippines got some of the biggest malls in the world.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have a giant box of air conditioning and you just live in this air conditioned wonderland.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So basically anytime we did anything fun,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: especially since I lived in the dorms,
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: it's not like my parents could drive me interesting places.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just got a ride to the mall.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: So like the weekend activity of choice all through high school,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: let's go to the mall, grab food, walk around, go to the movies.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that was very affordable.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I watched most movies that came out.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you just kind of have a list of like, oh, this is coming out.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: We love the trailers because it was like, these are the ones we're going to watch.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when Apple released trailers and you could just watch it on your computer.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, what's the next movie?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had a very high appreciation for watching at an earlier age.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then once I got into college,
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: right when I started my first film class would have been 2010, 2011.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which was right when, sorry, yeah, that would have been 2010, no, 2011, 2012.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Which was like literally when the Canon 5D Mark II used to create cinematic video in
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: a handheld DSLR.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: That exploded.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exploded.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, that was like, I was the only intro to film student.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there were a couple others, but I borrowed another student's 5D Mark II.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just had it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone else had these mini DV tape
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: cameras that you had to put all this ugly,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: harsh light just to get a picture.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I won all the awards on my freshman, it was like film of the year.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, we've never had a freshman.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And really, was the movie exceptional?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it looked great.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was a student film.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was just really interested in figuring out how to get it to look like a movie.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically when you have a bunch of videos,
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: all of them look like student films,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: and one looks kind of close to a movie, that one wins.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was all into,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: from that point on,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: YouTube tutorials, tech,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: every latest camera, and I kind of became, you know, Like shoulder rigs, dollies.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I built pretty much everything at one point in college.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend that knew how to weld.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: We built a gym.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I bought the PVC pipes.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I bought the skateboard wheels.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: We made the dolly.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: All the things for as cheap as possible.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: I figured out how to do it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of like put together all these random shoulder rig parts
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: from cheap little rigs and made like an actual thing.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was there like a North Star as far as like a movie that you were like,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: if I could make that movie, I'm like over the moon about it.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I loved Inception.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was a movie that came out in that period of time.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy how old that movie is now.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the thinking behind it was some of my favorite.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just like, oh,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I watched a movie and for the next week,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm processing and having revelations about it.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I really enjoyed that about that film.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Artistically, though, I'm trying to think.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was more like seeing what people were doing with Next to Nothing that got me excited.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it was less of a Hollywood movie and more of what people were releasing On
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: the gorilla DSLR budget stuff.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was like...
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, like peers.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like viewing them as peers more and being like,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: oh, like I could do this because I built all this stuff.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember there was like some surf film that someone had a 70 in
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: an underwater housing and you'd see like the mist and the shallow depth
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: of field.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like so pretty.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, So you were a Vimeo guy.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Vimeo, any way I could consume content.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's like, I mean, shallow depth of field was the thing.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, if things were out of focus in the background.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's all, now it's all wide open.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Which is,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love Lawrence of Arabia because everything's like so crisp and sharp
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: and large format.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting that our iPhones will...
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Computer blur the back.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's just like what is in right now.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the software is built that way to make it accessible and easy for us.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: that's like one of the reasons that I like doing this format because it's like
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: so non-invasive and so easy.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of just forget that that's there.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can actually like focus on a great conversation.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: The quality lacks a little bit because it's like,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, you're not, you're not, Recording on a Rode mic.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be nice to have one of those 3D RED camera rigs.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: When the Hobbit came out too, I was like, oh, look at those.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nine Komodos on top of it or whatever.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was into all of that stuff.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember when I was working at RED,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: this was like, I think as the Hobbit trilogy, which is not my favorite trilogy.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was nice that they came out.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was fun that it
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: was Lord of the Rings.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And his choice to shoot in, I think, 48 frames instead of...
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I watched it in that format.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a different...
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was messing with my mind in a very different way.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then they shot two cameras at the same time.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was the 3D rigs.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was like,
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when those rigs were being built because he was working with Red
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: to build those.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was just like, What are you doing, man?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you changing the game in this way?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I appreciated about what they did in The Hobbit is that they were intentional.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Movies at the time, 3D was the buzzword to get you to watch the film.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't really have intention.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: 3D technically used right is like shallow depth of the field.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're drawing attention to something.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Peter Jackson was actually like,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: he had artists that would hand draw scenes in two different colors and then put
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: on lenses and you would see on paper a 3D image.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: So like they had even the like scene planning and all of that for
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: that medium versus like, let's use a 3D camera and randomly pick what's 3D.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like The way that I feel about like you're obviously going
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: to have sharp opinions about like the Christopher Nolans,
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: the Peter Jacksons,
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: the Lucas, the Lucases, like those are the guys that are like pushing.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're very technical storytellers.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, I mean,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of what Peter Jackson was doing with the Lord
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: the Rings was like very revolutionary for the time.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: But in the same way that like George Lucas,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: like, yeah, you can love or hate
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first three episodes of Star Wars.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: The one, two, and three, not four, five, and six.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: But no one can deny the fact that because of those movies,
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: we have some of the CG tech that we've been using for decades.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: In the same way that Like there's a lot of Nolan haters out there and some
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: of them are justified I think in some level because of the way that he tells stories
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: but like his technical prowess is like
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: and his I can't say his DP's name it's like Hoyt than something other but like
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: the way that they use the camera and just even the medium of IMAX
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: in general like Oppenheimer was Not a movie that you would shoot in IMAX.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a character driven story.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like big explosions.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's normally what IMAX is for.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, now they're using it in this different way.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think like you're obviously, you're going to have like hot and cold.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's no like middle ground for any of those guys, I think.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes courage.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like I, that 48 frame, that was the only movie that ever did it.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Rightly so.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't catch.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, hey, props to you for giving it a shot.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta try it.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have a new appreciation.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like necessity is a mother invention.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And people that try to invent something new and bring about change,
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have a lot to owe to them.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: But there is something amazing about how simple it is to tell a good story.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: And how...
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not simple.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they follow the same rules.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a character arc.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's almost like, what's a story that's proven itself?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or a side character from a famous movie?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no real pain or conflict in this character.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: But, like, we're trying to ride the coattails.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're just talking about how stories are being made now.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, unfortunately...
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we're in the season of repeats
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: and remakes of old films
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: and this was
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: a book and this is a sequel.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: The Odyssey is an old film.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of renditions of that story.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a book and it was an old film.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a poem before anything else but at least there were some big swings taken in
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: that but only because of the track record that he has.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of along the same lines, I'm curious to get your thoughts on, like, leadership.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've kind of bounced all over the place.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: But, like,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: what would you say the difference between,
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: like, managing someone's performances versus, like, actually leading them?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think about,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: like, directors, and I think that's, like, a nice parallel to even business leaders.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Good director.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think...
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: The simplest little ditty or saying that I like is you manage things and you lead people.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're running a business,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of metrics,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: numbers, things you have to manage that are very important.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: But to actually lead the person is a different skill set.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of content out there that's hating against managers or
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: the boss versus the leader.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And leader has kind of taken this whole entity,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: like, I'm in the trenches with you, and I've earned your respect.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good stuff.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't live on that alone.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: You actually have to be able to manage things well
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: and understand what almost like dials and metrics can actually get
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: the desired outcome you're looking for.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of leading people, I guess...
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: The question, I got the management leadership piece, or managing.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a second layer?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think I missed.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, just like how do you,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: like is there a difference between managing someone's performance
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: and actually leading them?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like is there a difference between a performance of an employee or
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: a team member versus like leading them in the direction?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think what comes to mind first is like one of the most common,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: it's not necessarily common,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: but like a bigger epiphany that I have when I'm actually working directly
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: with leaders is recognizing how to listen and ask the right kind of questions
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: to find out what is this person that I'm leading want?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are their goals?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so especially when you're,
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: I coach a lot of leaders in sales where it's like heavy metrics and expectations
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: and you've got to hit certain numbers.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can lead, like you said, manage their performance and you as a leader have goals.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: You as a company have goals.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you make it about those, you lose sight of your people.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you lead people,
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: You recognize that, oh,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: this person,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: there's something they want out of life in their current season,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: whether they're married, unmarried, kids, no kids.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: There are hopes and dreams that they have.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: There are drivers that are motivating them,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: things that they desire,
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: and also pains they want to avoid, things they want to escape.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can listen and understand and get to know their story, then usually...
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, almost every time.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm pushing them in that direction,
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: it leads the triangle, I guess.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to get the business this way, and they want to go that way.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: It intersects.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: They diverge, I think is the word I was looking for.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Their goal and the business goal pretty much always diverge.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hardly ever have someone that...
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once you understand the core of what motivates them,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: what's important to them,
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: what they're seeking for, does it conflict with what the business needs?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, it's good to find that out and it's good to point them in a different direction.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go that way, please.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the difference between managing performance
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: and leading people is really finding out what's important to them
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: and what do they need.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I align that with where we're going as a team?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, leading implies typically it's team.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am leading and there's a group.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a high intelligence too and some really strong leaders
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: where they can find an assorted group of people that are very diverse
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: with unique hopes and dreams for life.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they can find a way to get them unified under like vision.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where everyone's goal,
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's similar like God has the grandest story and the greatest vision
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: and his kingdom building is such a big
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: epic that we get invited to participate in
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: that it has space for every unique person's hopes and dreams versus like,
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: oh, I get saved and I need to build the kingdom.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: That means I need to go evangelize and I need to study the Bible and I need
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: to be some kind of pastor or teacher and work professionally
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: in some faith-based organization.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that for many years.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: God's plan is so much bigger that he needs people in all facets.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the facets that you are stepping into now is fatherhood.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I am curious,
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: kind of as a father,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: what are you learning about leadership that no client could teach you?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have this really fascinating thing that I've been meditating on for past weeks.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which is basically,
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: and if you ever get on an AI rabbit trail and you start asking questions
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: about assisted naps, that was one of the key words that I liked.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like,
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: children are born,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: their brain's not developed yet,
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: it's not fully developed until they're 25,
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: but one of the key things is you lack the capacity to self-soothe.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of fascinated me,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like,
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is an organism that if it gets triggered into fight or flight,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: which again,
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: at a newborn capacity,
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hungry,
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: like recognizing that the child lacks the ability to understand
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: that it could be fed later.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like hunger equals I'm starving.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so the panic,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: the crying,
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: like it makes all the sense in the world when you realize this brain has not learned
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: That there's hope or peace or soothe or calm or food coming.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just in the moment, full maxed out, fight or flight, I'm dying.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I learned that like, oh,
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: they gain their ability to calm from the parent,
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think the most real example of that is our daughter sometimes is clearly tired.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Thinking like, why can't I just set her down and sleep?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: But she lacks the capacity to calm herself.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so the assisted nap thing,
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: if she's skin to skin or at least body to body and she can pick up on my breathing,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: she can smell me,
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: she can read all these senses that we don't think we have where we can pick up
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: on someone's emotional state.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's basically reading that.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: And recognizing, oh, I'm safe.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can relax.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can sleep.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so this kind of idea where like knowing that changes the whole dynamic from like
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: when she just won't stop crying and you're like.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: You signed the paper in the hospital, okay, that you wouldn't shake them.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you're almost like fighting,
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: like not literally,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: but you feel like you're like, I'm trying to get you to go to bed.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: No!
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you're recognizing like, oh, this thing is incapable.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's incompetent and unable to do this on its own.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think incompetence is kind of a bad word,
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: but when you recognize someone's ability realistically,
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think what it should lead when you have a healthy understanding is compassion.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have compassion for my child.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is in fight or flight.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is panicked.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: It thinks it's dying or not going to have another meal.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to treat it with compassion.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to love on it.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's going to help my daughter sleep.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's magic when you get that and you apply it.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so much fun to figure out how to soothe her.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when it applies to leadership,
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have many clients,
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm thinking of one specifically that sometimes struggle with,
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: like when people,
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm very much the same way, so I'm super relatable, but things go wrong.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you're almost like, why couldn't you get this right?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so easy for the leader, because they're so enormously competent.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're almost like unconsciously competent.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: They have no idea...
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a normal,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: it's like when you drive and you don't even think about all the steps
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: that you're taking.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Leaders are so good at their roles because they've been in so long that that's their experience.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's an assumption you're making.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Duh.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like the things that they're helping their team do for them feel natural, comfortable, easy.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't recognize that this new person I've just hired does not have
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: the same experience as I do.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: For them, this is the first time they've ever done this thing.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're completely incompetent.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: They have no idea what they're doing.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And their whole experience is riddled with failure.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: So again, similarly, recognizing that like, oh, this person on my team does not know the answer.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: They want to do the right thing.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: I need to add value and train and teach rather than correct.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's a very different experience when I'm obsessed with like,
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Correcting and do it my way and you have to get this right and there's no grace
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: for failure versus like this person is trying their best.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have the tools,
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: the knowledge or the skills to execute at my capacity and they won't have that level
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: for years because I've been doing this for years.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I kind of reverse engineer what I know
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: into a kind of palatable Assisted mapping.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, format.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Where they can actually process, comprehend, and apply.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: That is like totally, I was so curious to see how you answered that.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like such a myopic thing that is happening in life in a very real,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: tangible, painful way.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool to see how you've taken that.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not without its challenges.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Assisted napping means holding her longer and then trying to put her down.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: My poor bicep got stuck like this one day and I was like...
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just do the left arm so that you... Well, it was the left arm.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: You start working out some other muscles.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: What is something that's like unfinished that you desire like you know
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: that you'll do it at some point but it's like not the right season or something
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: that you like really want to get done and then I'm curious like
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: if you were coaching yourself like how would you how would you coach yourself
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: through that?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm asking for a friend.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the unfinished thing,
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have one podcast episode recorded of a podcast I'm launching that I think
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: the whole process of having our child, it was a priority decision.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: the theme is more of getting behind why people work.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot culturally...
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Social media that almost feels like people work as the enemy.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to work hard, save, so I don't have to work.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to get these properties and Airbnbs and get passive income.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: I won't have to work.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to work so incredibly hard for so long so that I can not work, but
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: you work anyway.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a pattern of goals,
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: especially working in coaching,
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: where I'm like, everyone is fighting so hard to stop work.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Work is of the devil.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the opposite in the Bible,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: and we're the only faith system that believes in a God that worked.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Most other faith systems, the gods were above work.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's ingrained, and work is good, and it's technically oxygen.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of our design.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: We were created and we were commanded, work and keep the garden.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: So work is integrated to our well-being, our emotional health, and our sanity.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're living a life trying to eliminate something that is needed
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: for existence, it's bad news.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to have a podcast talking to people that are very
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: emotional
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: about their work,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: about like there is something greater than paying my bills and meeting a need.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of based, a lot of the inspiration is the book Every Good Endeavor by Tim Keller.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of that has inspired me very much.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, man,
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to just have real practical stories of people in normal jobs,
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: not necessarily pastoral roles, but also that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: But like my parents and grandparents on both sides were missionaries.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: So my sort of Secular versus sacred workplace.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do I be a pastor or missionary or work?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: Make money in a secular job.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big battle for me.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like growing out of that.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of on pause and what I would coach myself for someone.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's funny about it is I had a call with one of my coaches when I was launching this.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't even planned, like, gotten all my ideas on paper yet.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: And his immediate question was like, when are you recording the first episode?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh,
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's like, when are you recording the first episode?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Who can you record?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well,
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have this client that I really, he's like, okay, when are you going to do it?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to do it?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I found a date,
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I text the client,
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had the date booked by the end of that call,
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: and I recorded it, and I have the recording.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it did not finish the job.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think...
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: So again, that's a good coaching style.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing against that.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're asking how would I coach someone, that is a process, and it's effective.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the other thing I want to take into account in answering that question is
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: that there's a capacity and priorities.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you broke down your life of what is important to me now
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: and how much percentage-wise of my capacity,
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: and you're not going to be scientific with this, are these things taking?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is this important enough to get this amount of my capacity?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if there is no capacity left at the end of the day,
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: then it's a healthy decision to put that on pause.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the culture I think we live in is like,
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: pursue your dreams.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: You must be scared.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not doing what you hope and dream you're doing right now,
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: you're just scared and you need to take a leap of faith.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that is the best coaching.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think As you grow,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: like for me,
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: with my podcast,
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: my attitude is like there's a big shift in my life,
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: my expenses,
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: my time,
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: that like until I get my business running to where that is set and at capacity,
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: over capacity, I'm not stressing about do I have enough business?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do I have the time to execute on the business that I have?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Once I'm there, then I'm going to open up capacity to add.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for a lot of business people,
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: they have these hopes and dreams and they want to start them all this year
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: and do it all at once.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then they all kind of collide, compete for priorities and it kind of falls apart.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Versus thinking like, oh, we sometimes underestimate what's possible in five years.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're almost like my first year, I'm trying to knock this thing out.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: And hit this goal.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to create capacity because the way our skills work too is that's going
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: to become less effort.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not only because I built the systems and the habits, but I'm going to be better at that thing.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's going to take less from me.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to have more of that percentage of my capacity to add a new priority.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you haven't even defined your priorities and you don't really have
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: a context for what's my actual capacity
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: right now, It's really hard to coach someone to do something they're not doing
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: because you're almost like you can push and push all you want.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: You might lead them to burnout.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: They might crash and burn.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just kind of like helping them define how important is that
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes we have a good idea and we don't wrestle with the reality
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: that this is not more important than this other thing that's taking my time.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we have emotional pain or discomfort thinking I'm failing or I'm not meeting
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: the mark because I'm not executing on every cool idea I have.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: But in reality,
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: it's like that's a beautiful thing God's given you inspiration to do in due time.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the door opens where like if you had started that the year you had
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: the idea,
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: it would have been a completely different thing than the person you were
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: when you actually started it.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a fan of just go all in.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: Steamrolling through everything.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not pursuing your dreams right now, you're failing.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: Again, with the frame that you called out, showing up takes effort, showing up isn't enough.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's my world.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: I come from that.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've had to unlearn and understand the importance of balance, priority, and capacity.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I would say that you are crushing it in that department when it comes
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: to prioritizing correctly,
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: like a new family member, I should say, and making time for that.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even just your generosity with giving me this much time to have this conversation.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: I always close out the episodes from, so my previous guest asked a question of my future guest.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the question that they asked you is, how is God showing up in your life right now?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's a long journey over the past few months where like I just got married a year
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: and a half ago.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so from single provide for myself to married provide for a spouse,
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: there was a whole journey of pressure, burden.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then eight months into that, we got pregnant.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like now we have a baby.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I've kind of been in this journey of like
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have enough.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't enough.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: Intellectually,
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_01: hearing testimonies and faith stories,
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know God's going to provide,
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: and you are supposed to cast that on Him and trust that He will do it.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to know now,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: this is December,
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: January of this year,
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: and now we're in August, I wanted to know it's going to be okay when I get there.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: No matter how hard I tried,
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like whether God was intentionally keeping it from me or not,
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was not capable.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: I lacked the means in and of myself,
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: in my own strength, to meet the need I thought I needed to meet.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in a way, it also felt like God was doing the whole Gideon thing.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: If that worked out, that you were all excited about, you'd
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: think it was you.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so he kind of like, again...
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he does this intentionally to make my life hard.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: But whether it was him or me,
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: everything I tried to do for months seemed like I was hitting walls.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed so easy and things I'd done before.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always in this state of need.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now that our baby came and she's here,
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: it's like God has done what I knew I was supposed to believe then.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so again,
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: it's just kind of coming to fruition where like I had this intense urgency and panic
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: that I have to provide now and know what it's going to be like then.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: And all these things happened,
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: unrelated,
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: company changing,
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: different structures and things like that and all this
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like all this change.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: And God's showing me now that like he's got it.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times if I just have the reminder that if I fast forwarded
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: a year,
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: this is going to be a hard season,
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm going to be all right,
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: most of the things that I worry about and stress about would not be that big of
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: a deal.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are you reading my journal?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: I hope I learn this now.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's like, It's not like all my hopes and dreams have happened.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like sometimes people will be like,
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I felt like I needed to tithe and I finally gave and then three.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's not that yet.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, we're okay.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in despair.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in need.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all right.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I would like to be more than all right.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to have abundance.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to have certain freedoms that I've had in my past when I was in different situations.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's like, what is that really worth?
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: And would I treat that abundance with wisdom?
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: Would I just waste that money on stuff I don't need?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: I resonate with that on so many levels, man.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's uncanny how,
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know plenty of people go through that season,
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: but I mean,
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: even just the specific phrasing that you're using in different ways,
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yep, I'm right there with you, man.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a wild, full season
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that always,
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to my painter friend and he has this painting of this rowboat
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: and he like,
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: thinks about it in this way where it's like you're rowing
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: the boat backwards like you're facing backwards but you're rowing it forwards
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: and like if you're doing a good job you can always see what's behind you
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: and like I think about that at least in my career like there's all these little dots
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: that I didn't know how they were going to connect and then of course
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: through God's sovereignty and his plan like they all connect in very random ways
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: that I could never Imagine them connecting.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so much of my time,
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: to your point,
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: is like reminding myself that like,
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: see, look at his faithfulness and the ways that these dots connected.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't know what the future is going to be.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're rowing this boat forward,
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: but you're looking backward and you want to figure out how to like look forward.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: But there's no way to do that.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very infuriating.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's part of the Fruits of the Spirit and cultivating those
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: and watering those and creating that ecosystem where there's balance and allowing
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: for the patience to grow, which is not something that I have a lot of.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I resonate with that answer.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I also heard the like scripture that says your word is a lamp unto my feet.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: In the context of what lamps were at the time that was written and
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: that you'd only see This far ahead.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't have flashlights.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or headlights.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so like a lamp to my feet is like, I can take my next step.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally to my feet.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so good.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a question for our next guest?
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to put you on the spot.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're good.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, I like this one.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is one thing that makes your heart say yes or makes you come alive.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that phrasing but I think in general it's important for people
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: to know what are the triggers or the things that suck energy and those that add to
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we don't define clearly what are the genuine things that make us come alive.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's my question.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's one thing that makes their heart go yes?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because it'll get them off topic of probably what they were talking about.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You might hear some interesting hobby.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: You might learn about some random quirk or interest they have that they love.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious what your answer is for that.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I think the simple one based on our conversation is like life nature.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So like...
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at the ocean, being outside.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: The older I get,
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: the more I realize that if there's something living within my space,
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: it has a direct impact on my mood.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm in a space that's...
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Concrete.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there isn't life.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a big fan of the brutalist movement in architecture.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.