Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Wildlife Officer vs. Cop Killers: The Heroic Showdown That Saved Lives Behind the Badge

Transcript

Wildlife Officer vs. Cop Killers: The Heroic Showdown That Saved Lives Behind the Badge · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:10
Dennis Collins: Good to see you again.
0:11
A warm welcome back to The Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
0:16
We tell real stories about real cops.
0:19
We expose the fake news about police and we always give you the real truth.
0:25
This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading
0:29
voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.
0:34
For more information about how you can get involved, it's citizens behind the Badge org.
0:41
Hi, I'm your host.
0:42
I'm Dennis Collins.
0:43
I'm a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge and a
0:46
Law Enforcement Father, please say hello to my colleagues today.
0:51
None other than Craig Floyd and Bill Erfurth.
0:56
Biller Erfurth is a retired Miami-Dade lieutenant, 26 years of decorated
1:01
service, and a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.
1:06
Our fearless leader is Craig Floyd.
1:08
Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.
1:13
You may know Craig as the founding CEO Emeritus of the National Law Enforcement Memorial and the Police
1:19
Museum in Washington D.C. I hope you guys are ready for an amazing story.
1:25
We have, as always, a very special guest today, sheriff Mike Neal.
1:33
Mike is a highly decorated law enforcement officer with a long history of public service
1:38
before being elected Sheriff of Monroe County, Arkansas in 2012.
1:42
Mike served four years in the US Navy, two years as a naval reservist.
1:46
He spent 11 years as a firefighter.
1:48
How about that?
1:49
Retiring at the rank of Captain Neal began his law enforcement career
1:53
in 1992, working in the Howard County Sheriff's Department Jail.
1:59
However.
1:59
Let's go to May 20th, 2010.
2:03
In the blink of an eye, Wildlife Officer, Mike Neal's routine patrol with the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission
2:10
transformed into a heart stopping confrontation that would test every ounce of his training and his courage.
2:17
Neal unexpectedly found himself face to face with two cop killers in a Walmart parking lot.
2:25
He made a split second high risk decision.
2:28
That most wildlife officers never have to make in their whole career,
2:31
that would forever his life and the lives of those around him.
2:36
This is a true story of how a small town wildlife officer became a national
2:41
hero and why his story continues to inspire and amaze us to this day.
2:46
His brave actions earned him behind.
2:49
In law enforcement, three medals of the 2011 International Officer
2:53
of the Year, and the Congressional Medal of Valor from President Obama.
2:58
But it's the story behind the medals, the raw bravery, the quick
3:02
thinking, and the kind of heroism that Hollywood dreams are made up.
3:08
Sheriff Mike Neal, thank for you for your many years of service as the law enforcement officer.
3:13
Thank you for being a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.
3:18
You are truly a hero behind the badge.
3:21
It's our pleasure to have you with us today to tell your amazing story.
3:25
Bill, Craig and I have been talking for the longest time about asking you to join this podcast.
3:31
So thank you.
3:33
Thank you for taking the time to join us.
3:35
I guarantee you, Mike, we have more questions than time will allow today, but I'd like to start it
3:41
off by asking our fearless leader, Craig, to ask the first question.
3:47
Craig Floyd: You, Dennis and Mike.
3:48
Let me say, what an honor, it's to have you on our podcast.
3:52
as Dennis said, heroes Behind the Badge is the name of the show, and,
3:57
if there ever is to be a hero, behind the badge, it's, Mike Neal, in.
4:04
I think it was October of 2010, the National Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial Fund made you
4:11
our officer of the month, and I had the, privilege of meeting you,
4:16
a year later at our annual officer of the month, luncheon that we did.
4:22
And, I learned your story.
4:26
you are, the epitome really when it comes to law enforcement.
4:30
I think of certain hallmarks I think of.
4:33
Dedication, I think of courage.
4:36
I think of selflessness.
4:38
I think of men and women who are more concerned about the safety and welfare of others than themselves.
4:45
And I think the story we're about to tell, really, exemplifies, what law enforcement is all about.
4:52
And that's why I was so proud to, make your story.
4:57
Have your truck that was involved.
4:59
our viewers will get to know that story in a moment, and, really make that story a permanent part
5:04
of the National Law Enforcement Museum when we opened in 2018.
5:09
And I know Bill, my colleague here, went on to make you a movie star.
5:14
he did a, tremendous documentary that, told your story.
5:18
Bill any, opening, remarks here for, our good friend Mike?
5:23
Bill Erfurth: So good to see you again, Mike.
5:25
And just, as Craig had just said, we did the Heroes Behind the Badge Documentary, and we did that a number of years ago.
5:33
That Mike's story is featured in it.
5:36
It's an amazing story.
5:38
It's something that everyone should see and know about.
5:41
And I just wanna tell you something about my friend Mike.
5:45
Mike's story is truly.
5:49
Some crazy ass ballsy shit, just to put it bluntly.
5:54
It's a story that everybody needs to hear.
5:59
So Craig, take it away.
6:02
Craig Floyd: Mike, take us back.
6:04
May 20th, 2010, approximately 11:36 AM there's a traffic stop in West Memphis, Arkansas.
6:16
two police officers came on the scene.
6:19
this is really what started the whole story in motion, and it's a tragic story with, a lot of heartache.
6:28
But, a lot of courage too and a lot of inspiration.
6:32
So talk about the traffic Stop that Got, set all this in motion, please.
6:39
Mike Neal: Yeah.
6:39
it was, they used to call those the routine traffic stops.
6:44
in today's time there's nothing routine in anything that we do, and it never should be.
6:50
If you're an officer, it should never be a routine, but.
6:53
Back in the day, it was a routine.
6:55
Traffic stop.
6:55
Wasn't much to it, just a dirty old white van.
6:59
the tags didn't match up.
7:02
Officers pulled it over.
7:03
They were a drug interdiction team, and old game warden terms.
7:07
They were out there kicking over rocks, looking for snakes, basically.
7:11
And, they, kicked a rock over and they found some bad snakes.
7:14
Is.
7:16
It
7:16
Craig Floyd: was Officer Bill Evans, I believe, who was the first officer on the scene.
7:22
and then he called for backup.
7:25
and, so actually he never came along.
7:27
Mike Neal: He never called.
7:28
There was no traffic, in between the two of them.
7:31
So that goes back to the leadership, and leadership on branding powders.
7:38
His part, he was a sergeant on duty and Bill had been out and he was
7:43
running traffic and, it was, it was Brandon's part to go check on his, kids.
7:50
that he's watching over and there wasn't any traffic in between the two of 'em.
7:56
He just pulls up on the traffic stop, starts to learn the information and.
8:02
at the point in the videos, he starts to take control of the situation and things start going south.
8:10
Craig Floyd: I remember the story.
8:11
the driver of the car, a guy named Jerry Kain, and his son was with him, Joe Kain, 16 years old.
8:20
And these were members of the Sovereign Citizen movement.
8:23
I. Now, for our viewers that may not know, sovereign citizens,
8:28
do not have any respect for the government, or their powers.
8:33
he, for instance, did not have a driver's license.
8:35
He didn't think, sovereign citizens, should be required to have a driver's license.
8:41
He did not register his vehicle.
8:45
And he had a brick of marijuana in the car and two outstanding warrants for his arrest.
8:51
bill Evans discovers all of this and, gets Jerry Cain out of the car.
8:57
and I suppose he is attempting to make an arrest, is he not?
9:00
Mike Neal: Yes, sir. I thought he was doing his investigation and, I, teach a class on this and this incident and
9:08
how important it is, to watch body language, body movements and things.
9:14
The whole time when he gets the suspect out of the vehicle.
9:19
I don't ever use his name 'cause I don't believe in publishing their names, but he, they're not worthy of it.
9:25
But when Bill gets him outta the car, I. He takes control of the TUR traffic stop the movements that he does.
9:34
He doesn't wanna be on camera.
9:35
He knows he is on camera, and he walks around to the back of the vehicle and, gets outta camera frame
9:41
and, tries to get the officer outta camera, frame the entire traffic stop.
9:45
So he.
9:47
He, tries to take control and in some ways he does at that point.
9:52
And it's important for officers to realize what's going on when
9:55
you're talking to suspects and, their body movement language.
9:59
'cause a lot of times they're gonna tell you what they're gonna do before they do it.
10:02
And their movements, honestly, and this is a prime example, he gives him, as soon as he steps
10:07
outta the van, he gives him that thousand yard sta sizing him up.
10:11
he's looking at him, can I take this guy or is it, do I need to move on?
10:16
FBI statistics show that, that they do this to us.
10:19
But I guess he felt like he could, he makes his first mistake when he gets out of the van.
10:27
You watch the video closely, the door closes behind him.
10:30
He stares Bill Evans down, sizing him up, and then he immediately turns to go back to the van.
10:37
And what does that tell you?
10:37
As an officer, it should tell you something's in that van he wants or wants to protect, honestly.
10:44
and then the door shut, he realizes I can't get back in the van without a commotion.
10:49
So let me play along for a second.
10:51
And then they, move to the back of the van.
10:53
Craig Floyd: So they have a, a scuffle.
10:56
obviously, the, father, starts to resist, and engages him in some, hand-to-hand combat.
11:04
and they end up rolling down the, bank into a ditch.
11:07
And at that very moment, and we have some video to show this.
11:11
The sun gets out of the car.
11:12
The 16-year-old with an AK 47, what happens?
11:16
Let's run that video and show it.
11:20
Mike Neal: Brandon died right here.
11:28
Bill actually died, 16-year-old kid, and that ditch right there
11:38
Craig Floyd: and they calmly drive off.
11:41
After shooting and killing two police officers.
11:46
it was brutal.
11:47
I think after everything was done there, there was something like, How many shots?
11:53
I think they shot both of the officers, more than a dozen times.
11:57
Brandon Powder, I'm looking at the numbers here.
12:00
Shot 14 times.
12:02
14 times.
12:04
Thomas Evans or, bill Evans, I'm sorry.
12:07
eight times shot and killed.
12:10
and they left them, lying on the roadway there in the ditch.
12:14
and then they drove off.
12:16
and then.
12:17
In a freakish coincidence, Brandon Powder's father, who is the chief of police, of the West Memphis,
12:27
Arkansas Police Department at the time, happens to drive, To the scene.
12:33
he was on his way on a vacation with his wife who had just
12:37
gotten out of the hospital after suffering, I think a heart attack.
12:41
and they were on their way to a vacation when they stumbled upon the scene,
12:45
and have no idea that it's his son that had just been brutally murdered.
12:50
And I think Bill Evans was, he a nephew?
12:52
I, think there was a relationship there as well.
12:54
Is that true?
12:55
Cousin of that?
12:58
Yeah.
12:58
So at any rate, now you've got the father, the chief of police driving upon
13:03
the scene and, and he sees his son lying there dead in, the, on the roadway.
13:10
we have video of what it was like for Chief Powder to, to come upon that scene
13:16
and, how he was affected by that moment in his life that he'll never forget.
13:21
Let's run that video.
13:25
Bobby Paudert: I saw that Brandon lying on his back,
13:30
had been shot several times and he was facing up, and I walked up to him and I stood over him looking down at him,
13:40
and
13:44
my entire life just drained outta my body.
13:46
At that point, I would just.
13:48
It was the worst day of my life.
13:50
I was looking down at my son that had just been shot,
13:56
and I was standing there trying to decide what I needed to do and what
14:00
I needed to do as a police chief and what I needed to do as a father.
14:04
Bill Erfurth: cra Crazy.
14:06
Crazy moment there.
14:07
And, I understand that, that the chief did everything he could to keep his wife at bay and in the vehicle because
14:14
he definitely did not want his wife to see her son in that condition.
14:20
And, and so it all unfolds and plays out from there, Mike.
14:26
Now the manhunt begins, the bolo is out.
14:30
Everyone's looking for this vehicle.
14:32
Where are you and how did you find out?
14:37
Mike Neal: So I'm just out on regular patrol as a game warden.
14:43
I'd been outta the truck for a few minutes.
14:46
as a game warden you don't see very many game wardens 'cause
14:50
they're, spread out and they have to cover a lot of territory.
14:52
But I covered seven counties and I had communications with all seven counties.
14:58
So when I got back in the truck, all those radios were talking.
15:03
I was like, what is going on?
15:05
I had no idea what was going on.
15:07
And that's when I started learning the events that had happened, that
15:10
there was two officers down, most critical incidents that you debrief.
15:16
The main component in that is the breakdown of communication.
15:19
And this was no different.
15:22
they started putting out the information that it was a stolen white church van, with a MS 13 gang in it.
15:29
armed with AK 40 sevens and it was a head on the drug interdiction team.
15:33
And that's, what I responded to.
15:35
That's the call that I knew that I was going to, and I remember driving
15:42
and I pulled over on the side of the road and started preparing myself.
15:45
I grabbed an old vest, put it on, I grabbed my rifle out the
15:48
rack, hung it around my neck, put it in my lap, just slung it.
15:54
And I started driving.
15:57
I was pretty good ways from West Memphis at that point.
16:01
I told a little bit of a white lie.
16:02
I called my sergeant and I said, Hey, I know what's going on in West Memphis.
16:07
He was in West Memphis.
16:09
I told him, I said, I know what's going on there.
16:11
I'm pretty close.
16:12
Can I come help?
16:13
And I was game warden close.
16:15
I was over an hour away, but, nobody had to know that at the time.
16:19
And he said, yeah, get over here as quick as you can.
16:21
And that gave me the green light.
16:23
And I, lit a torch to the truck and drove as fast as the truck
16:27
would drive all the way to West Memphis to get in a gunfight.
16:30
Craig Floyd: But at, that point, Mike, did you know that, they had
16:34
spotted the vehicle in this parking lot of the Walmart or No, sir.
16:37
Or were you just hoping to find it yourself?
16:40
Mike Neal: No, we, we had no idea where they went.
16:43
And in the time of events here, from the time of the murders to the time that I get involved is about 90 minutes.
16:50
We're about an hour and a half.
16:51
So all the way over, I'm thinking, what if, how are we gonna do this?
16:56
How are we gonna handle it?
16:58
How are we gonna find these guys and hunt 'em down?
17:00
and then you got somebody on your other shoulder saying they're already gone.
17:04
They're not there, just a normal day.
17:07
That kind of thing.
17:08
And it was nowhere near a normal day.
17:11
it wasn't until I got into town actually was about to run outta gas.
17:17
I pulled over at the Horizon, shell gas station there in West Memphis, was getting fuel.
17:23
didn't realize even where I'd stopped.
17:26
but God has a way of, getting your attention and this was one of those moments.
17:30
Where it was time for me to focus and, 'cause I, if you know me, I'm a DD blonde haired, just all over the place.
17:38
And this was one of those heated moments that I needed to focus.
17:43
And as I was fueling my truck, I looked up and I could see the crime scene where Bill and Brandon were.
17:49
And it was, man, it was like, even, man, 15 years later, it's still like a kick in the gut.
17:57
it was a hard punch, but it.
17:59
What I needed at the moment to get focused.
18:03
I sure as heck didn't realize what I was about to incur.
18:08
I was in town a total of 15 minutes before I was in a gun fight and had no idea that was even coming.
18:15
Bill Erfurth: So here you are, you're, driving around like everybody is.
18:19
Everyone's looking for this vehicle.
18:22
You're in this heightened sense of awareness and the adrenaline's pumping.
18:27
You come into the Walmart parking lot, let's play that clip.
18:31
When I started into the
18:32
Mike Neal: parking lot and the gunfire started, I immediately
18:36
transitioning the rifle up into the windshield and started towards them.
18:42
The bullet started coming through the windshield.
18:44
They shot this pillar out completely.
18:47
Some of the rounds were coming over my head.
18:50
My headrest had a bullet hole in it.
18:53
I had laid across the console.
18:56
And was returning fire pretty much from the passenger seat.
19:00
And in the picture you can see the bullet holes stair stepping
19:04
coming across to the point he found where I was inside the truck.
19:08
And that's where he concentrated his fire at that point.
19:11
And I was doing the same thing to him.
19:13
Luckily I was able to get to him before he got to me.
19:18
Bill Erfurth: Talk about that.
19:19
So here you are, you see what's going on.
19:23
They're actually engaged in a gunfight with some sheriff's deputies, I believe.
19:28
you see what's going on, you decide I'm just gonna crank this fricking truck up and get it going
19:35
as fast as I can through this parking lot, and I'm just gonna.
19:39
Crash the shit out.
19:41
These guys, you know what, what's going on?
19:44
You got the rifle up.
19:46
You're ready to fire as you're approaching them thinking that you're gonna ram their vehicle.
19:53
You're firing through your windshield as they're firing at you.
19:58
It's just wildness.
19:59
Talk about it.
20:00
Mike Neal: Yeah, it was, it was a showdown, that's for sure.
20:04
I've always had that reputation that I'll use whatever means I have to, win the fight.
20:09
I'm not gonna play fair if I don't have to.
20:11
And I will hit you with my truck.
20:13
I've hit many since then with my truck.
20:15
it is a tool and I will use it as such.
20:18
And I teach my deputies the same thing.
20:20
We can replace the truck or we can't replace you.
20:23
game and fish taught us in the academy to shoot through our vehicles.
20:27
so that's what we did.
20:28
We knew, it was pretty cutting edge training back then, to fire through your windshield.
20:36
it's, being done now, but it's still not as popular.
20:40
but I knew it would work.
20:41
And as I was approaching them, I could see them firing on officers in front of me.
20:47
And I knew at that point that it was time to stop the killing.
20:51
'cause in my mind they'd killed two this morning and they'd killed two more right in front of me.
20:55
And I was, here to stop.
20:57
So as I'm approaching, he's standing out of the van and that's when I transitioned.
21:01
I pulled my rifle up, so I'm real redneck in this.
21:04
I got a left hand on the steering wheel and I got my rifle in my right hand and I'm charging in the battle and he turns.
21:11
And if you look at the video close, you can see him turn around and look at me.
21:14
And then he gets back in the van and starts backing up.
21:17
And I thought, I'm gonna hit you as hard as I can.
21:19
You're not getting outta here.
21:21
And I don't think they expected that they weren't expecting somebody to crash into him.
21:26
I played football my entire life.
21:27
I was a linebacker, so I took the fight to him.
21:30
I, I was a head hunter in football and I head hunter in this.
21:34
So at the last second, I remember them turning that van sideways.
21:41
I thought, oh, I got you now, I thought I'm gonna hit you and you're gonna roll over and blow up.
21:48
'cause that's what Michael Bay taught us.
21:49
Some bad boys, you hit somebody hard, they roll over and blow up.
21:52
So I was fully expecting it and it did not roll over.
21:56
And it didn't blow up.
21:57
They were immediately on the guns.
21:58
As soon as I hit the driver, pivots any seat.
22:01
Turns around.
22:02
what I know now is a, Taurus judge.
22:05
Back then, I was looking down the angry eye of an RPG as far as I
22:09
was concerned, and that's where I fired my first two rounds.
22:13
first two rounds, struck him here and here in the head with a, 2, 2 3.
22:19
So I knew, that gunfight was over.
22:22
And a gunfight, you're looking for three things, electricity, plumbing, and structure.
22:26
You knock out the electricity, the fight's over.
22:28
I knew that fight was finished, but I didn't know how many were in the van.
22:32
I immediately started taking gunfire.
22:35
This is after we've crashed into one another.
22:37
We're seven feet from one another.
22:39
He's shooting an ak.
22:40
I'm shooting a 2, 2 3, and the rounds start coming in the glass and shrapnels hitting me in the face.
22:46
I dove over in the passenger side and that's when I hit my head
22:49
on my laptop, split my forehead open, and give me a concussion.
22:53
And I was taking shrapnel down my left hand or left side.
22:57
My hands, my hip, and all I could remember thinking is Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot faster.
23:04
And that's when I started returning fire and I think I wound up hitting him 22 times.
23:11
I was shooting, green tip, so it was going through my windshield, through the seat, through him hitting the door
23:17
and going through the door and hitting the concrete post on the other side.
23:20
So it was like little needles shooting through him.
23:23
that's why I talk about the plumbing.
23:25
if you can't shoot the electricity, you go for structure and plumbing,
23:28
but the plumbing, it takes a while to turn off electricity.
23:31
So he was able to continue fighting, and I remember thinking, why are you still shooting at me?
23:37
You, should not be shooting at me.
23:40
And that's when the sixth sound of my weapon going dry.
23:45
It clicks, I'm laying on top of it.
23:49
I'm still being shot at, I'm still taking incoming rounds, being hit with crap.
23:56
in those kind of situations, if you don't train for em's, not gonna happen.
23:59
You'll either rise to your level of training or you're gonna fall to your level of training.
24:03
At that point, I fell to my level of training and I was not able to reload my rifle.
24:08
honestly, looking back and studying things, it was probably a good thing.
24:12
my guardian angel was taking care of me, so that's when I decided it was time to evacuate Dodge.
24:18
And I threw it in reverse and held the truck to the floor and to my surprise, it was still running.
24:24
I went to backing away from the scene and did some free landscaping from Walmart.
24:28
I didn't even charge 'em.
24:29
Cleaned out all their bushes with my truck and some woman backed out and hit me.
24:33
I don't know what her deal was, but, that's my story.
24:36
I'll stick to that one.
24:37
She wasn't even in the car.
24:38
I backed into her, but, and that's when you see me exit the truck
24:41
and go behind the truck and take cover and try to do some self aid.
24:46
Bill Erfurth: So let's talk a little bit.
24:47
Lemme add some, let's talk a little bit more about the truck.
24:49
So the truck's a big pickup truck.
24:51
It's your law enforcement police vehicle pickup truck.
24:54
You got a ramming bar on the front of the truck.
24:58
We're gonna talk about this.
24:59
Craig's gonna bring it up because, that's one of the beautiful
25:03
centerpieces at the National Law Enforcement Museum is your truck.
25:07
And, it's incredible because you look at this.
25:10
And as you had said, the, bullets are stairs stepping through the windshield
25:16
and, your windshield, it's just plastered full of gl of bullet holes.
25:21
So, you're in this pickup truck, you got the ramming bar on there.
25:25
The truck, the, truck's damaged in the front, but you exploded into this van of theirs.
25:31
How fast were you going?
25:33
state police estimates about 55 miles an hour.
25:37
and, you didn't, you crashed out, the adrenaline probably took over the, yeah.
25:42
Besides the seatbelt.
25:43
Never felt saving you from that.
25:44
Mike Neal: I didn't even have a seatbelt on.
25:46
The airbag didn't deploy.
25:47
I didn't have a seatbelt.
25:48
That's what knocked be into the center section of the truck.
25:52
Honestly.
25:52
Wow.
25:52
It was the end because I broke the steering wheel with my body.
25:56
Went to the kind of the radio and air conditioner control system.
26:00
I was in that part.
26:01
And that's where I started firing from.
26:02
So I wasn't actually sitting in my seat when they started firing into the truck.
26:07
'cause that's what they were shooting at, was the, cockpit where I should have been.
26:13
Craig Floyd: Did you have a vest on Mike?
26:14
Mike Neal: No sir. it not one that was stopped.
26:17
7.62, but 39.
26:19
So I had a soft body armor.
26:21
Craig Floyd: I was wondering about the impact on the steering wheel if you broke it.
26:24
I'm just thinking that the trauma to your body must have been, tremendous
26:28
and if you had a vest on it, it would help save your life in that situation.
26:32
Mike Neal: It would've helped.
26:33
Yeah.
26:33
I was sore for a while and messed up my elbow, my left hand from holding on, but I still have problems with it.
26:40
15 years.
26:42
Craig Floyd: Mike.
26:43
Hey, Bill.
26:43
Yeah, Bill, I, found out that, I did a little research and,
26:48
Mike fired approximately 30 rounds into their vehicle.
26:54
and, the father was shot 18 times.
26:58
18 times.
26:59
He hit him.
27:00
The sun was, shot eight times.
27:03
So this is a pretty good shot.
27:05
he gets off 30 rounds and, and basically almost all of 'em hit their targets and, those two end up, dying eventually.
27:14
But, those stats are just amazing.
27:16
And then how many, I think there was at least, Close to 20 gunshots,
27:21
in your vehicle, Mike, that, mainly through the windshield, right?
27:25
Yes, sir.
27:25
Mike Neal: Yep.
27:26
Straight through the windshield, through the back, through the
27:27
seats, everywhere I should have been, had bullet holes in it.
27:30
Craig Floyd: Unbelievable.
27:31
God was looking out for you that day, my friend.
27:33
Absolutely.
27:34
Bill Erfurth: Yeah.
27:34
Crazy.
27:35
Crazy.
27:36
Craig and I are on the same page here, because that was exactly what I was
27:40
gonna talk about, how many rounds that were filed, fired, and quite frankly.
27:46
We'll talk about this a little bit more, but everybody's gotta see this, truck of yours, it's and it's on full display.
27:54
It's, one of the highlights at the National Law Enforcement Museum in Washington, dc So I
27:59
want to talk to you now more about the warrior mindset, right?
28:05
Cop to cop, people that have been in the military, people that have
28:08
been in these critical high risk situations in law enforcement.
28:15
there's something to be said about nothing is more exhilarating than the hunting of another human.
28:24
And the reason that I say that is when I was working and I was in the warrants
28:30
bureau, in the fugitive section on the wall, there was a quote, a famous quote.
28:37
It was actually from Ernest Hemingway, and I'll, read the whole thing eventually here.
28:43
But it was something, and we, would look at it and it was like, nothing
28:48
is more exhilarating and dangerous than the hunting of another man.
28:54
And it was one of those things that was on the wall that always reminded me like a sports team.
29:03
Like a football team and they all go out and they touch that sign or that, that
29:08
motto for from their college or the, or a hockey team that does the same thing.
29:13
And it, and it reminds you of your mission, let's say.
29:19
So let's talk about that whole heightened sense of awareness.
29:24
You say you put the vest on, I'm probably sure you're sitting up, and, the adrenaline's pumping and
29:32
you're sensory overload, and you're looking around and everything because you know that it's about to happen.
29:40
That shit's gonna hit the fan, right?
29:44
Let's, talk about that.
29:45
Let's talk about that whole thing about how there's nothing more dangerous or exhilarating than the hunting of
29:53
another person, an armed, and let's qu, let's qualify that and say the hunting of a criminal rabid animal.
30:06
Mike Neal: it's unbelievable experience.
30:08
The, adrenaline, like you say is, will make your body do things that
30:12
you couldn't imagine and absorb things that you couldn't imagine.
30:16
And this was no different.
30:18
just like the impact.
30:19
I never, I don't even remember the impact, honestly.
30:24
I never remember being scared.
30:26
I remember at one point in that gun fight.
30:29
I couldn't hear anything.
30:30
I, never heard my rifle go off.
30:33
I never heard theirs, but I could hear the cracking of the
30:37
truck, the truck coming apart and the bullets coming through.
30:42
I can still hear those sitting in my chair, and I can hear my buffer spring
30:47
inside that, that rifle going, Ching, And knowing that he's on the other end.
30:54
Putting rounds same way into my truck.
30:57
It was, it's an unbelievable feeling.
31:00
thank God I was able to live through it.
31:03
but yeah, the, adrenaline that lasts for a while, but when it stops, you're down.
31:09
You better be ready 'cause you're gonna be taking a nap.
31:13
I've been on multiple calls like that where we've hunted people and you're right.
31:18
hunting another person is, unbelievable.
31:24
'cause they possibly have the skills that you do and you, don't know what you're up against.
31:31
Bill Erfurth: that, that adrenaline dump after the situation is, Crazy.
31:38
if, no one's ever experienced it, and then it's very few people that
31:41
experienced that except maybe first responders and, military type people.
31:47
And it's just something that I thought we should talk about because it's certainly a different mindset and
31:53
you have that mindset because just because you're in the military or law
31:57
enforcement doesn't necessarily mean that you can rise to that occasion.
32:01
And you rose to that occasion in a number of ways, and I know Craig
32:05
is gonna talk about that because this wasn't your first rodeo.
32:09
And then you also do some training that we're gonna talk about.
32:12
But I wanna read this quote to you because I think it's an amazing quote, but this is
32:17
from, this is what I referenced earlier that we have on the wall.
32:22
It was something that as soon as you walked out the door, you looked at this.
32:25
Because when we were chasing fugitives.
32:29
You are hunting people, essentially.
32:31
And so Ernest Hemingway says there is no hunting, like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed
32:40
men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.
32:47
It's pretty heavy duty.
32:49
Mike Neal: I don't hunt, I don't, fish.
32:52
I don't either.
32:53
No, I.
32:56
what's the thrill of putting a salt lick out and luring a deer to it and shooting it?
33:01
Bill Erfurth: that's not shooting back at you.
33:02
It's not gonna kill you's, not evil, mean, the hunting of man.
33:05
There is nothing, that can compare to that.
33:09
Mike Neal: I've never heard that quote, but that makes a tremendous amount of sense in my life.
33:15
So I love it.
33:15
Looked by that.
33:17
Craig Floyd: How does a fish and wildlife officer, which you were at
33:20
the time of the shootout, not fish or not hunt, that's wasn't game.
33:25
Morden strange, wasn't great.
33:27
Mike Neal: I wasn't a greatest game morden out there.
33:30
they'd say, what kind of fish is that, Neal?
33:32
I'm like, oh, it's a dead fish.
33:34
I don't know, so I had a lot to learn.
33:38
Craig Floyd: Mike, this is interesting because, one of the stats that I, cite quite often be showing that most law
33:45
enforcement officers will go their entire career without ever firing their weapon in the line of duty.
33:52
and there was a survey once, not too long ago that said 73% of the
33:57
officers surveyed had never fired their weapon in the line of duty.
34:02
Probably never would.
34:04
you're different, you're a different breed.
34:07
and you certainly have that warrior mentality that when push comes to shove and, force is necessary and
34:15
heroes need to step forward, you seem to be the one to do that.
34:19
And you told me you've been involved in six shooting incidents in your career.
34:25
the one we just described being one of them, obviously, but.
34:29
Tell me about the other five.
34:31
I can't imagine any officer being involved in six shooting incidents.
34:36
Mike Neal: Yeah, that's, I'm that magnet kind of a guy.
34:39
But this is a, something I like to tell officers is if you're not hunting evil, evil will hunt you.
34:46
So you always have to be looking and hunting evil because it's
34:49
gonna catch you on the day that you're not hunting evil.
34:53
And that's where officers get in trouble.
34:55
That's where they get H hurt.
34:57
And I've quoted this even in the, documentary is, it's not a matter of if this is gonna happen,
35:02
it's when, especially in today's times and those, stats are gonna
35:05
change, I feel 70%, never get into a gun fight or any of that.
35:10
I feel like those are, probably changing as we speak because the violence in this world today is unlike it's ever been.
35:20
so viewers listen up.
35:21
It's not a matter if it's when you're gonna get into this and you better be ready for it and
35:25
hunt that evil, but like you said, I've been in six incidences where gunfires occur, or death.
35:33
LA latest one was in August with the US Marshals, where they were ambushed and shot to pieces.
35:40
With a 300, a guy was shooting an automatic 300 blackout at us.
35:46
even if sheriff.
35:47
I still get shot at for some reason.
35:49
So it's it's that mentality of when it's going down, when the fight is there, I wanna be there.
35:57
I wanna be a part of that.
36:00
I know what I'm doing.
36:01
I don't know if you know what you're doing or not and move over and let me in there.
36:04
I'll take care of it.
36:05
It's that kind of mentality that gets guys like me in, trouble, puts us in firefights.
36:12
So I.
36:15
Bill Erfurth: I think that's, that simply makes you a leader, right?
36:18
You're a leader.
36:19
And that's why I started this off saying, this is truly some ballsy shit that we're gonna talk about here.
36:27
And it takes somebody like you and that mentality to be a winner and to survive.
36:34
Mike Neal: You.
36:34
You think about her, we've done some quotes her stated, for every 100 men.
36:40
80 of 'em shouldn't even be there.
36:42
10 or nothing.
36:42
But targets, nine are warriors, but one of them is the ultimate warrior and he'll bring you the rest of them back.
36:50
And that's what you have to be today or anytime in law enforcement to be honest with you.
36:55
Wanna be that, guy, you have to be that warrior.
36:59
You have to have that mentality or you're not gonna go home to your family.
37:02
And if you don't have that mentality every day when you
37:05
wake up and go to work, that not today, I'm not dying today.
37:09
This is not my day.
37:10
I'm going home to my kids, then you're probably in trouble.
37:14
So you better get the mentality and, get the training and keep your butt in gear.
37:20
So Mike, you
37:21
Bill Erfurth: you mentioned to Craig, you mentioned to all of us about, about training and about that mentality.
37:29
It's not if it's gonna happen when, but when it's gonna happen.
37:34
And we got a clip of that.
37:35
It's a good clip.
37:36
Let's play that.
37:37
Everybody should hear it.
37:38
Mike Neal: And I, say it's, kinda like being a prisoner that day.
37:42
It's always gonna be with me for the rest of my life.
37:47
I tell other officers, in training, I say, it's not a matter of if
37:53
it's gonna happen to you, it's when it's gonna happen to you.
37:58
And if you're not thinking that way, you might wanna start.
38:02
If you don't wanna start, you might wanna reevaluate your job because.
38:07
Look at me.
38:08
I'm a game warden.
38:09
Look what I got in.
38:12
it's not.
38:20
Craig Floyd: when you were talking there, Mike, I, couldn't help but remember a story.
38:24
I, was, at a restaurant with my wife and, the waiter was a young guy and
38:29
we, got to chatting about what his, plans for the future were, et cetera.
38:34
And he said to me he had, originally applied to become a police officer at his local police department.
38:41
and he was, in the academy.
38:45
then, a young officer on the first day on, on the job was shot and killed in a, neighboring, county.
38:54
And what he said to himself?
38:56
I don't think I wanna be a cop anymore.
38:59
and good for him and I, applauded him for coming to that realization.
39:03
Mike Neal: Good for him.
39:04
Craig Floyd: But I think it's, something that maybe some people
39:07
don't think about when they apply to become a police officer that.
39:13
you gotta be prepared for those, moments where courage takes over and leaders step forward and heroes become heroes.
39:21
And I think, anybody thinking about a police career needs to be thinking in those terms.
39:27
But knowing that most officers, the vast majority are gonna go their entire careers, probably
39:33
never fire their weapon, probably never get into a gunfight.
39:36
The, likes of what we described here today.
39:39
You gotta be prepared for that moment and and hopefully people
39:43
understand that when they take on the job, as you've explained.
39:46
one thing that.
39:48
Go back to was the traffic stop.
39:51
obviously we have years that we've looked at that traffic stop seen the video, we know what happened, but what,
39:58
in your mind, could have been done differently by those officers that might have, changed things for the better?
40:06
it's hard to imagine a guy's got an AK 47 and he's willing to, lose his own life, to take yours.
40:13
how do you deal with that situation?
40:15
Mike Neal: I don't think they could have stopped it, per se.
40:19
maybe a little bit more officer, security minded.
40:23
They got a, maybe a little complacent.
40:26
I'm not gonna say they were, they didn't take the, boys a threat honestly.
40:33
and going back to training, you never turn your back on gunfire, first of all.
40:40
So if you watch the videos.
40:43
The boy comes out and the first person he shoots is Bill Evans.
40:47
And Brandon's standing there and Brandon reacts to the fight.
40:51
And then the fire gunfire starts, and then Brandon goes back to old
40:55
school training, get gain, cover, return fire, those kind of things.
41:00
And I teach law enforcement now on the range.
41:04
You don't have time.
41:05
There's sometimes you get caught and you don't have time to get covered.
41:08
And the best cover down range is what lead.
41:10
If you're putting accurate shot placement on them, they're not shooting back accurate at you, I promise you.
41:17
So when the gunfire starts, you immediately turn to the gunfire, return fire, those kind of things.
41:23
Those kind of training and mindset and having that tool in that tool belt when these things happen are, so important.
41:30
Never turn your back on gunfire, there was a second there where the boys weapon malfunctions.
41:38
He has to stop.
41:39
And you think about his mindset, you wanna talk about mindset.
41:41
That boy was very dangerous.
41:44
He's 16 years old.
41:45
He's, attacking two armed law enforcement officers that are trained.
41:49
And he didn't have any hesitation in him.
41:51
He stopped, clears a weapon in the middle of a gunfight.
41:55
I've seen officers cross the us it couldn't get it done at training, much less in a gunfight.
42:00
He stops, clears a weapon, and then starts shooting again.
42:03
But in those two or three seconds.
42:06
if we'd had that appropriate training, I think Brandon could have ended it.
42:10
I think he could have broke leather and had a couple of shots on target.
42:15
And, this day would've probably changed dramatically.
42:19
Honestly.
42:21
Bill Erfurth: what's really interesting about what you said and how policing and the world has basically evolved.
42:28
As I remember, I was a, new sergeant and one of the guys on my squad had, Punched and knocked out a 14 or
42:38
15-year-old teenage boy that attacked him, and everybody was like, woo, buddy.
42:44
Oh my God.
42:45
You just put your hands on a teenager, you knocked some kid out.
42:50
And at the time, that was a really big deal, putting your hands on a kid.
42:58
Fast forward to today.
43:01
Kids are shooting each other in schools.
43:04
Yeah.
43:04
Crazy ass shit.
43:06
And kids oftentimes now are, and from that point forward when that happened,
43:13
when he punched him and knocked him out, kids are more volatile out of control.
43:17
They don't even think of the repercussions and, can clearly be dangerous.
43:25
And the public has gotten to accept that now, where before it was almost a little bit taboo.
43:32
You're
43:32
Mike Neal: exactly
43:33
Bill Erfurth: right.
43:36
Craig Floyd: maybe to, come to a, bit of a closing here, but I wanted to
43:40
make sure we acknowledge two people that we didn't talk about earlier.
43:43
and that was Sheriff Dick Busby and, his Chief enforcement Officer, chief Deputy Wa Ren.
43:50
those were the two officers that spotted the, van in the Walmart.
43:54
Parking lot, got involved in the initial shootout there and were critically injured, both of them.
44:01
and it was really Mike Neal ramming his vehicle in into the assailants that, saved their lives.
44:08
they very likely would've been shot and killed, if, those, bad guys had their way.
44:14
Mike just, wanted to acknowledge, your heroic efforts there to save their
44:19
lives, but also, The sacrifice that Dick Busby and wa Ren made in this incident.
44:26
Mike, you and I, got together at that officer of the month luncheon in 2011.
44:31
And we honored you for what you had done in this incident we described here today.
44:37
but one thing you said to me that day, yeah, you knew we
44:39
were building this national law enforcement museum at the time.
44:43
it was still seven years, in the making.
44:46
but you and I didn't know that.
44:48
All you knew was that you wanted your story, your truck that was used in that, critical shoot out with these, evil.
44:57
Men and, 16-year-old son, in that museum, to basically make a statement that, this is what officers sometimes
45:07
have to deal with, and that the public sometimes doesn't fully appreciate the
45:11
level of, selflessness the, sacrifices that officers are, forced to make.
45:18
I talked about it at the intro.
45:19
I said, Any, good officer, and there are about 800,000 of them in this country, must be willing
45:28
to put their lives on the line for the safety and welfare of others.
45:32
In other words, you've gotta care more about the people you're trying to protect than you care about yourself.
45:37
And I think that's what your story, that's what that truck and that museum is all about.
45:43
that truck is on permanent display and your story is on permanent display in the National Law Enforcement Museum.
45:50
I don't know if you knew this, but, the exhibit installers, the
45:53
people that created all those exhibits for us and, took all the.
45:59
equipment and, artifacts that are on display.
46:02
They said putting your truck on the platform that it now sits on, was
46:07
the toughest part of building the National Law Enforcement Museum.
46:12
we, did it.
46:13
Welcome to my life.
46:13
Bill Erfurth: Yeah.
46:14
And
46:14
Craig Floyd: was it easy?
46:16
Bill Erfurth: And more so than the helicopter that hangs in.
46:18
There's great,
46:19
Craig Floyd: more so than the helicopter hanging from the rafters.
46:21
But, you, went through a lot of machinations to get us that
46:25
truck and, make sure that we could, just put it on way.
46:28
Were they gonna crush it?
46:28
Tell story.
46:29
Yeah.
46:30
Mike Neal: They were gonna crush the truck.
46:31
So yes.
46:32
Glad they
46:33
Bill Erfurth: so much better use of it.
46:34
Crazy.
46:35
so wait, let's, we, can't forget, we can't forget to talk about Mike at the White House.
46:43
No.
46:45
Craig Floyd: Congressional medal.
46:46
That's the Valour winner.
46:49
Mike Neal: Yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun.
46:51
I was, a old game warden say, and I was a fish outta pond, that's for sure.
46:55
They, they called us over redneck to come to DC and I showed up in Class A or it was an honor guard uniform.
47:04
I was on the honor guard.
47:05
I looked like the country pimp had showed up to the white
47:11
man.
47:11
I was so nervous being there.
47:13
I was waiting in the wings and they were, telling the story to call me up and it's all on YouTube video.
47:19
You can watch it.
47:20
they called me up and as I'm walking up here, I thought, man, I'm gonna give the vice president a coin.
47:26
So I start digging in my pocket.
47:28
don't do that when you're walking up to the president.
47:30
First of all, that's not a good idea.
47:31
You can get shot.
47:32
But, I pull outta coin and I, I hand him the coin.
47:37
surprised.
47:37
We talk for a second.
47:40
I turned around and faced the crowd and Joe reaches over to grab the medals and I thought I should go to parade rest.
47:48
So I go to parade rest and I throw my arms behind me about the time he's reaching over me to put the medal
47:54
on him, and I force Gump the vice president on national television.
47:59
I hit him right in a junk and he said, oh, in my ear.
48:02
And I thought, oh my God,
48:06
Yeah, that's, that's the way Mike Neal's life is just gotta fly by the seat of your pants here.
48:11
But.
48:12
Bill Erfurth: we got some great pictures that, that we see you there getting them pre Presidential
48:19
Medal of Valor and we've got some great pictures that, actually it was you, Craig and I altogether, yeah.
48:26
At, the dedication of the National Law Enforcement Museum standing up above that truck.
48:32
So those are some, great memories.
48:35
Dennis Collins: Good memory.
48:36
Billy and Craig and and Mike, I have to step in at this point.
48:40
We could go on Mike for the rest of this day and for several other days.
48:45
Every time I hear your story repeated, it brings back the same feeling I had when I saw it for the first time.
48:53
And it is amazing.
48:56
I. A lot of the things you said today.
48:59
I hope our listeners, our viewers, were listening carefully to what you said.
49:03
I think the key phrase of the day has to do with mindset.
49:09
Has to do with mindset.
49:10
It's not, if it's gonna happen, it's when it's gonna happen.
49:14
That's not only a lesson for law enforcement.
49:16
That's a lesson for life to be prepared and, You know what I kept thinking as you were talking?
49:23
Thank God you weren't, eliminated.
49:26
Your job wasn't eliminated by defund or defame the police or whatever.
49:30
This BS is going on.
49:32
You were on duty.
49:33
Thank God that day.
49:34
Just think about that.
49:35
If you, Mike Neal hadn't been on duty that day, who knows what would've happened?
49:40
And that's no slight or no inference to any law enforcement, but you saw what needed to be done.
49:46
You did it and you finished the situation.
49:50
You completed your assignment.
49:51
Little did you know when you started that day, that would be part of your assignment.
49:56
I doubt that is inspiring.
49:59
That is motivating.
50:01
I hope other law enforcement officers will listen to your story.
50:05
Again, it's been out there, but again, and never forget it because it is a real lesson.
50:12
We need law enforcement officers in on patrol out in the streets, taking care of business even though
50:19
they don't even know sometimes what the business is gonna be.
50:22
They're ready for it.
50:25
you are truly a hero behind the badge.
50:28
What a great story.
50:30
Thank you for sharing it with our listeners and viewers.
50:34
this has been an interview with Sheriff Mike Neal.
50:37
He wasn't always a sheriff.
50:39
He recounted today what happened to him, what, 15 years ago, right?
50:44
A fateful day occurred.
50:46
If you haven't heard the whole edition of this podcast, wind it Back, rewind it and listen to it.
50:52
You will not believe this story.
50:54
You will not.
50:56
So this podcast, by the way, is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading voice of
51:03
the American people to support the men and women of law enforcement.
51:09
if you would like more information to join the.
51:12
Hundreds of thousands of your fellow Americans who are
51:15
supporting and getting involved with supporting law enforcement.
51:20
It's citizens behind the badge.org.
51:24
That's Citizens Behind the Badge DO org.
51:26
Please join us in our efforts to highlight heroes.
51:31
Like Mike Neal, so that we never forget.
51:34
We'll be back soon with a lot more stories.
51:37
We've got a lot of real stories about real cops coming up.
51:40
We promise to always tell you the truth about law enforcement, and
51:45
we promise to blow up the fake news promulgated by the media.
51:50
Thanks again for watching.
51:51
Thanks for listening.
51:52
It's Dennis Collins.
51:53
Craig, Floyd and Bill Erfurth will be back next time with another great, heroic story.