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Alex McFarland: Breaking Down Today’s Notable Church Attendance Increase · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:02
  Welcome to Worldview Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity. No topic, off limits. And now, here's your host, David Fiorazzo.
• 0:20
  Hey, friends, thank you so much for tuning in, watching, listening, and sharing the podcast. We are going to jump right in because I've got a special guest today, author, apologist, evangelist, and a friend of the podcast. We've had him on before. Love his ministry. It's Alex McFarland and the website, of course, alexmcfarland.com.
• 0:39
  He's got a new book out that we'll touch on a little later. It's 100 Bible Questions and Answers on Prophecy and the End Times. So, Alex, thank you so much for your time today connecting from South Carolina to the Midwest. Good to see you. Well, it's good to see you, David. I appreciate your ministry, and you are such a good Christian journalist to address topics from a biblical vantage point, and it's always an honor to be on with you.
• 1:08
  Well, the honor is mine because you're, I said before we got on the podcast, you're one of the remnant. You're one of the faithful ones. I wish there were more like you and more pastors in America that were truly preaching the whole counsel of God and the biblical worldview, Bible prophecy, and all engaging in politics. But we've got a lot of work to do. But let's jump into this today, Alex. There are some recent surveys that have come out.
• 1:37
  On the surface, there seem to be conflicting reports. You see good things, and then you go, wait, but what about this? So what are we talking about, friends? Well, Lifeway Research is citing a new study by the Hartford Institute. That's why I wanted to bring Alex on to talk about this. It's the Hartford Institute for Religion Research. And the first time church attendance increase—this is the first time—
• 2:02
  Let me say that over again. First time church attendance increased in decades. And I thought, okay, church attendance has gone up. We remember COVID, maybe it fell back. Then it came back. And then, of course, after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, church attendance seemed to almost skyrocket. Now maybe it's tapered off. But Alex, you seem to be optimistic about church.
• 2:26
  the church attendance increase this time because it hasn't been this high in decades. Just share your thoughts overall, and then we'll get into some of the numbers.
• 2:36
  Well, David, thank you for reporting on this. And, you know, to be sure, it is encouraging to see more and more people coming back to church. Easter, which was just a couple of months ago, church attendance was probably the highest Palm Sunday, Easter Sunday attendance in decades, actually. And among those that are seriously...
• 2:59
  pursuing a relationship with Jesus and interested in the Bible are young adult males. Now, this is really good. I was on a show, it might have been NPR, actually, with one of the leaders of Barnes and Noble bookstores, and this particular executive from Barnes and Noble said that
• 3:20
  Basically, their stores are selling Bibles as quickly as they can get them in. And if you look, I mean, there's all sorts of study Bibles and commentaries. And I mean, you know, it's funny, right alongside books about atheism and deconstructing the faith...
• 3:38
  There are shelves and shelves of Bibles. And, David, I do a lot of traveling. I was just in St. Louis, Missouri. I was in Oklahoma City. I was in Denver, Colorado, Atlanta, Georgia, Nashville, Tennessee, all within the last, really, couple of months. So very often I'll go in Barnes & Noble. And, yeah, I mean, it looks like late teens and 20-somethings that are at the Bible shelves. Yeah.
• 4:07
  looking at a copy of God's Word. That's wonderful. Interesting. But I do want to say this to the pastors and church leaders out there. The more conservative theologically a church is, the more likely they are to be growing. The more left-leaning, the more progressive, woke
• 4:27
  for lack of a better term, liberal, theologically liberal, the more likely they are to be in an attendance nosedive. There's that old saying, go woke, go broke. So if you want to really retain the seekers that are coming through the church doors on Sunday morning, give them the Word. They're looking for substance, and the more theologically conservative churches are the ones
• 4:57
  that's very interesting because it was growing there for a while the rainbow flags outside of certain churches
• 5:06
  I had to put churches in air quotes for those of you listening to the audio version of the podcast, because those aren't true churches if you're promoting something that the Bible considers sin. So, Alex, how much did—we're talking about this church attendance increase in 2026— how much did the assassination of Charlie Kirk and his influence on this younger generation play into these numbers? Because I know after his—
• 5:35
  Death in the memorial service, I think we saw numbers that I think surprised a lot of us. So give us your take on that.
• 5:43
  Well, you know, thank you for talking about that, as we are now about three months away from the one-year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's assassination. I think it played into it a lot. In early, early 25, there was a shooting. I believe there was one in Tennessee at Covenant Christian School. A transgender person shot and killed some students. Then there was a church shooting in...
• 6:11
  I believe it was St. Paul, Minnesota, and then disruption of a church service there in either Minneapolis or St. Paul. There were a number of shootings, and then the violence against opposing points of view seemed to coalesce into the death of Charlie Kirk. David, I've got to say this. Two and a half weeks before Charlie Kirk was killed, the last event happened.
• 6:38
  he did on U.S. soil before his event in Utah, the event at which he lost his life. The last non-TPUSA event he did on American soil was our conference, Conversations That Matter, two and a half weeks before he was shot. 3,000 people came from 17 states, mostly young people. Very exciting.
• 7:03
  Charlie Kirk and I did about a three-hour program. He spoke. He and I did Q&A together. The videos of that program later were tweeted, whatever is 19 million plus 22 million, so about 41 million views. And it was even President Trump tweeted several clips of Charlie and I together. Oh, my goodness. And here's the point.
• 7:33
  Charlie was very factual, and he said a lot of things that made people angry sometimes. But biblically, historically, scholarly, you know, from an academic perspective, he laid truth on the table. And what was the piercingly logical response from those that disagreed? Kill him.
• 7:59
  You know, Charlie Kirk's assassin did not refute his data, did not dismantle his line of reasoning. And this is so typical of totalitarian regimes and cults. You don't debate, you don't reason, you don't prove your point, you just kill people.
• 8:20
  the person with whom you disagree. And so young people, the light bulb is on. The LGBTQ trans mafia can shoot people and kill people, but they cannot win the debate on its own merit. I want to say this. Mental health research...
• 8:40
  science, not to mention a little thing called the Word of God stand against the LGBTQ trans worldview. Now, God loves people, anyone can be saved, but we've got to admit where we sin, we've got to turn from it, repent of it, and follow Jesus.
• 9:04
  Reality is not changed by killing those with whom you philosophically disagree. It's time that people turn to truth, and that's what young people are doing, and they realize that assassinating your ideological opponent is not the answer.
• 9:21
  I really appreciate everything you just shared there, and I want to get back to something and just ask you if what we're seeing might signal revival and want you to define that. But first, because you brought it up, I wasn't going to ask you about this, but this stuff is making news all the time. We're in a very different culture and climate environment here in America spiritually. Demonic forces are at work like never before. Just off of the press, a high school teacher...
• 9:51
  in Rhode Island, recently said Charlie Kirk was garbage, and he was honored by the school. And by the way, this kind of stuff is happening across the country where they're speaking. Still, they're not changing their rhetoric. It's a worldview problem. It's a problem with their heart, but they're not changing their rhetoric. Alex, they're brainwashing students.
• 10:13
  And it says, how can this is what you asked a question that you asked, how can anyone condone a high school teachers celebrating a public figures murder for merely debating and talking? So we're seeing too many of these now, Alex, we're seeing this assassination culture. There was even an attempt or there was plans for an attempt at the recent White House UFC conference.
• 10:39
  event, and that was foiled by the FBI and others. But Alex, we're talking about high schools and the environment there where Marxism and ABC culture, anything but Christ, is what they're being taught, which produces social justice activists and those who would be opposed and hostile toward the biblical worldview. Please comment on that briefly, and we'll get back to the numbers on the church increase, attendance increase.
• 11:04
  Yeah, well, you know, the very same social justice warriors that will cry out about free speech, you know, as if, you know, public nudity or gratuitous, you know, sex is protected speech, you know, inappropriate material for children.
• 11:25
  They'll cry all day long about their right to free speech, and yet they don't want Charlie Kirk to have had his First Amendment rights protected. And so for this teacher in Rhode Island, and I remember seeing that news report to...
• 11:42
  Tell students that he was garbage. See, here's one of the differences between right and left. And one thing fundamentally about the Democrats, they absolutely do not understand human nature. See, the Democrats believe that humans are inherently good, not sinful. But humans are expendable.
• 12:07
  If an unplanned pregnancy occurs, they murder the baby, abort the baby. Humans are expendable. If someone comes along with whom they disagree, whether it be Donald Trump or Charlie Kirk, assassinate them or try to assassinate them. Humans are expendable. Now, conservatives, i.e. Republicans, we believe that people are human beings made in God's image, but are inherently sinful.
• 12:34
  but valuable to God and redeemable. That's why a conservative will, you know, while we might philosophically disagree with the person on the other side of the aisle, in no way ever, never would we wish them ill or harm.
• 12:53
  And so the difference between right and left is so pronounced at this point. And it's very sad that Charlie Kirk and like, I mean, I've spoken for a number of TPUSA events myself. Charlie spoke for us. Charlie and I were together at the RNC convention in Milwaukee in the summer of 24, in the fall of 24,
• 13:16
  Charlie texted me two days before he died, and he said, your event in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina was great. Let's do it again next year. Of course, next year would never come. And so I would plead, even if someone is Marxist, atheist, Islamist,
• 13:37
  Look, let's talk. Let's reason. Because truth is defensible. And I would say, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of many conservatives and Christian conservative Republicans, woke leftists, while I disagree with you,
• 13:56
  I love you and I care about you as a human being. And anytime, anyplace, we will converse and we will reason. Because I disagree, I don't want to harm you, but I would like to try and persuade you of some facts that you might just not be aware of at this moment.
• 14:16
  I like what you said in that any human being is redeemable until they die, and then all bets are off. It's over. But there's always a chance, and sometimes the people that appear to be the furthest away from God with the most hardened hearts are the ones that really have those radical conversions.
• 14:36
  And we need to keep praying for those people if they're in your life or if you know of people like that. But, Alex, this is going by very, very fast. Let's get back to this idea of possible revival or pockets of revival. You said in this article, after years of an immoral, godless society—
• 14:54
  Americans are finally waking up to the absolute need for and relevance of the gospel. And so I think people are hearing, well, this really is good news. Tell us a little bit about that. And how do you determine whether there's signs of revival or not?
• 15:13
  Well, there's a pathway for true revival, a true spiritual awakening, not just a program or something well-publicized, but an actual life-changing, culture-changing move of God. And it involves, on the part of God's people, prayer.
• 15:30
  and repentance. That means turning from sin. And I'm talking about saved, born-again believers here, searching our heart and letting God's Holy Spirit shine the light of revelation into the areas of our life that we need to turn from. There's got to be repentance.
• 15:48
  You'll know there's a true move of God when there's an evangelistic urgency and a return to the authority of God's Word, but also unity within the body of Christ. We're very fragmented right now. David, I just read a stat earlier today about how less than half of pastors say that July 4th should be acknowledged by the church,
• 16:16
  the nation's 250th birthday, would like only about 40% say that they would ever, ever do the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag or sing the national anthem in a service. So well over 50% of current pastors say no, no patriotism in church. Wow. And...
• 16:39
  Let me just say this. For two centuries, the United States of America has been at the absolute forefront of the Great Commission.
• 16:49
  And of the roughly one and a half trillion dollars that will be spent this year on world missions, benevolence, everything from, yes, the gospel to infrastructure, fresh water, literacy, hospitals, relieving the human condition, Samaritan's Purse, Compassion International, Baptist men on mission, the one and a half trillion dollars
• 17:19
  will come out of America, and 85 to 87% of those givers are what you and I would call evangelical Christians. Now, it is not the woke left...
• 17:34
  giving a cup of cold water in Jesus' name. And so to all these pastors that they would not dare show patriotism or preach about being grateful for America, let me tell you, fellow minister, you need to remember...
• 17:50
  how your paycheck and all the perks and benefits get paid. And it's not by the woke left that you so want to placate. It's red, white, and blue, God-fearing Americans that are writing 85% of all the checks.
• 18:10
  Alex, speak a little bit more about this. This is important because I think some might say you guys have a problem with idolatry when it comes to the American flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag. No, that's not it. You're missing the point of us being thankful for the First Amendment to be in a country that was founded the way ours was to have the freedoms that we do to share the gospel. A lot of countries don't have the freedom, and you'll get killed for sharing the gospel. It's not a matter of idolatry. Speak a little bit more to that.
• 18:40
  Yeah, I mean, if you have a house and you live in it, you take care of it, don't you? We know our home is heaven, our ultimate destination, if you're a Christian, is to be with the Lord Jesus. And the fact that you would take care of your car, you would try to take care of your house—
• 18:58
  trying to take care of your body. It doesn't mean you're an idolater, it doesn't mean you're not living for heaven, it just means that as long as you're here on terresta firma, planet Earth, you're trying to be a good steward. And I've had many a pastor, I mean, really reprimand me, and they would very piously say, oh, I didn't get the memo. I thought I was supposed to make Christians, not make Americans.
• 19:24
  Let me just say this. I know home is our heaven, but where are we going to live till we get there here in America? And let me just say one more thing about affirming our nation and telling people to love and cherish and be grateful for America. Look, you can do evangelism anywhere. You could be chained to the cell of a communist, you know,
• 19:48
  Gulag, and you could look at your fellow inmate and say, hey, believe in Jesus. But to do missions, to launch mission initiatives, you need prosperity, you need stability, and you need liberty.
• 20:05
  And the reason that for two centuries plus, America has been at the absolute forefront of the Great Commission is because we've had liberty, prosperity, and stability. And so a pastor who plays it super safe and would not dare offend anybody...
• 20:24
  If you want what you've got, you better affirm what gave it to you. And it was not secularist socialism. It was a free market Judeo-Christian representative constitutional America that built your buildings and pays your salary. Yeah. Yeah.
• 20:44
  Brother, man, this is going by way too fast. I did want to get to 100 Bible questions and answers on Prophecy in the End Times. That's your latest book. Very important topics that you cover. But I did want to ask you, since we're kind of on this topic, what did you think about the phenomenal movie, there's my take on it, A Great Awakening?,
• 21:06
  And if pastors watch that and think we're worshiping the American flag, I think I just can't imagine with George Whitefield and and just share your thoughts on that briefly, please.
• 21:18
  Well, it was a great movie. And by the way, where I sit right now, we are two days away from one of our Revive U.S. events, and there is a National Historic Marker about five miles from where I sit, where George Whitfield would preach out in the open air. He was Presbyterian minister from Britain, and he is one of the people most responsible for the American Revolution.
• 21:46
  And he preached all up and down the East Coast. So did the Wesleys and later Francis Asbury and so many preachers and ministers. I was in Concord, Connecticut, and I went to the church of Jonathan Edwards where really from about 1748 to 1760,
• 22:08
  Edwards was used by God in the First Great Awakening, and I went literally to the church, sit on the spot where Jonathan Edwards preached sinners in the hands of an angry God, and it spread throughout Northampton, Massachusetts, and ultimately two-thirds of all of the colonists professed Christ, and I mean, we need that again. But our nation, this very nation,
• 22:34
  is a ripple effect of one of the greatest revivals since Pentecost.
• 22:40
  And most people don't realize that, but I think we need to help them be aware of, you know, America is not just this economic experiment. It really was a move of God. Amen. George Washington, the first words he said once inaugurated as our first president, he said, the sacred fire of liberty has been entrusted to the American people.
• 23:06
  Freedom is a sacred liberty, a gift from God. You know, the colonists wanted to make him king, and Washington pretty forcibly said, no, he would not be the king. He would be a president, our first president. But in the book, 100 Bible Questions and Answers on Prophecy in the End Times, we talk about how that near the end of time, just before the return of Christ, there would be a rise of immorality,
• 23:35
  There would be, the Reformers believed, a rise of Mohammedism, as they called it, Luther, Calvin, the Wesleys. There would be activity in the Middle East. And here we are now, 78 years from the rebirth of the nation of Israel, which I happen to believe is a super sign of the lateness of the hour. Yeah.
• 24:00
  Christ is coming, and David, you and I may very, very likely be alive when that trumpet sounds and the Lord Jesus returns. We've got to be getting close. I mean, I pray it's getting close. But yeah, there are signs. I mean, just the fact that Israel became a nation, there's so much Bible prophecy that can encourage us. But let's ask, really briefly, I want to just talk about your Explain Revive Us. That's relatively new to your ministry, isn't it?
• 24:32
  It really is. I mean, I've been on the road speaking for 30 years, but Revive US, we've done several of these. Thank you for showing that. We will come to any city. Over the years, we've organized 51 citywide events where we get churches together. We give you our event preparation manual that we've refined for many years, teach you how to have prayer teams and promotional teams and arrangements.
• 25:01
  we accept, gratefully accept support, and we need it, but we will come and we will make multiple trips to help you get organized, and a Revive U.S. event is designed to help Christians of all strata come together to lift up Jesus Christ and to see a move of God in America in our times. It can happen. It's already happening now.
• 25:30
  But any local group, maybe you're just one or two Christian friends, but you can link arms, and God will bless that, because the Revive U.S. events are all about lifting up Jesus and bringing souls to a relationship with Him.
• 25:49
  And I love that you cover everything. No topic off limits. That's one of our themes here at Worldview Matters. Apologetics, biblical worldview, and times. And I love the live Q&A. I think that's very, very beneficial. One more thing, Alex, about a minute and a half, and I saw something else on your website. I don't know how you keep up with everything you do, but Eric Metaxas will be speaking on August 8th. Tell us about that.
• 26:14
  Yeah, that's almost the one-year anniversary of Charlie Kirk's assassination. And our ongoing speaker series, Eric, he's a longtime friend, of course, prolific author, one of the great insightful voices of our times. Eric Metaxas will be here in person. Then in October, in our Conversations That Matter series, we've got two former Muslims talking about the differences between Islam and Christianity and how to reach Muslims for Christ.
• 26:44
  You know, what we're doing, David, in all of our events we've done over the years, and we've been very blessed to book every Christian thinker you've ever heard of, but we're just trying to raise the intellectual quotient of the American body of Christ. And it's a great honor to partner with people like Eric Metaxas to do that.
• 27:05
  Well, I really appreciate your ministry. I'm so thankful for your time that you can continue to come back on the podcast. I think it's such a blessing to our viewers and listeners. And wow, it's hard to believe all you do. And thanks so much, Alex. I appreciate you so very much. We'll keep in touch. Blessings to you, my friend. Thank you for having me on. And God bless America.
• 27:26
  Yeah, amen. Amen. 250, baby. All right, guys, share this one. And thank you so much for your prayers for the ministry. God bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter. We will see you next time.