Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #70 - Franc Sunseri

Transcript

#70 - Franc Sunseri · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to bring you guys today's episode, with none other than Mr Frank, real name Francesco, son Sari, the brother of our boy, michelino, joins the podcast.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It was a great conversation.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Frank has an incredible story to tell.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: For starters, he's the founder of Run Slut yes, you heard that correct Run Slot which is the viral apparel company that you guys have probably seen t-shirts of folks wearing all over the sub-Ultra and Ultra Trail community lately.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really cool brand, great hats, great apparel, great t-shirts.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Guys, we'll link them in the show notes so you can check them out.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Frank's story is incredible.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: He's a big member of the trail running community, he's a great dude, he's very inspiring and he has an incredible story to tell, one that a lot of folks can probably understand and empathize with.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Frank has had a long battle with addiction and he has battled his way back to be in a place that is extremely healthy and where he's at right now.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So it was amazing for him to come on the podcast and let me help tell his story, and I hope you all are inspired that from where he's been at and where he is now is just an amazing story and, like I said, it's an inspiring one.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: It's an incredible one.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: For those with little ears floating around, there is some foul language.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: We do shoot the shit for a while.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, definitely don't get too perturbed by some of the language we use.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Guys, enjoy this one.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: We are live, people, earth.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Listen up.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to be partnering with Ultimate Direction in 2025 as the official hydration solutions partner for the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Lots of fun things coming down the pike for this year.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Ultimate Direction is going to be unveiling a brand new race and ultra vest that's going to be dropping in the next couple of podcasts.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Lots of fun things coming down the pike for this year.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Ultimate Direction is going to be unveiling a brand new race and ultra vest that's going to be dropping in the next couple months.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So excited to bring that to you guys.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: If you are in the market right now for apparel, for a belt, for a new pack, anything hydration solutions related, flasks, you name it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: They've got it.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: They've got you covered.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: If you hop on to ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod, that's one word steep S, t, e, e, p stuff, s, t, u, f, f pod.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: If you hop on to ultimate directioncom and use that code, that's going to get you 25% off your car, especially that we're starting to wind our way a little bit more closer to spring.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: You guys are going to be start start to together your race calendars and, yeah, ultimate direction is going to have you guys covered.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So, whatever you need, they've got you outfitted from head almost a toe.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: They don't do shoes yet.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: So guys, enjoy yourself, have a great rest of your week.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, and check out ultimate direction.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Franks and Sari.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the steep stuff podcast.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: How are you, my friend?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Doing well.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: James, how are you?
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm excited to be across the table from you, man.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: This is the first face-to-face pod I've done in like a month, so we just moved, as I said, on the podcast a few times and, as I told you, there's boxes all around us.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: It's coming along, it's getting there, dude.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So it's good to just be in front of someone and, like, have an organic conversation oh, absolutely, and it's also good to get you out in colorado.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Dude how you liking it.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: You know what it's absolutely freezing right now um I mean, coming from southern california, I have.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: It takes me, I don't know, up until may to acclimate to winter, and then it's summer.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: So, uh, here I am freezing.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here in the springs it's what 27 degrees and over in pueblo it's about eight.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: So it's been fun.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: But no, it's good Working out here at a local spot and figured, yeah, stop in, come, say hi, finally get face to face.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Springs, bro.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been talking for a while.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like we started chatting.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I met you a long time ago.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I introduced myself, I think it was at Broken Arrow years ago, yeah, back when I first met Michelino.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: And then, um, yeah, it's good to be started chatting, like through the whole michelino situation.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say well, because I'm trying, I'm trying to recall that, but that might have, that might have been back in the.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: That might have been in the in the drinking, drinking days, and I might, yeah we'll get to that not a great, yeah, yeah so yeah, man.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: So how's your day going?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: It's going well, that's going well.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Man just out of work, um, you know, trying to relax, and uh, have you got to explore at all since you've been out here?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: This trip I haven't.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Um, fortunately, last, last time I was out here, I actually got to do the incline.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Um, uh ran, you know, did the incline to p?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Uh, to the top of uh pikes, uh, and came back down, um planned the entire trip around doing that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: You know I hadn't had a job walk and I made sure I had a full day to go do that, but this trip, unfortunately not.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: It's all work.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: This is pretty much the enjoyment that I'm getting out of this trip.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh man, you still training a bunch.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Are you still running a?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: bunch.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I have been training, not a lot of running.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I've been rehabbing from an Achilles injury since, oh man, probably since last January, but really starting to take it seriously here since November.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You since Sari Brothers, and your Achilles.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's funny.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I was actually talking to Mike about that and said you know, we have to have a bone to pick with my parents because the genetics we got for our Achilles is not great.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: But no, it's been good.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I've been getting back and doing a lot more strength training, really focusing on rehabbing it, because I had a horrendous amount of ankle rolls that really put a lot of stress on that Achilles itself.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, now we're just back in the rehab game and slowly getting back to running.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Nice man.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Well, it's good to hear so obviously there was a million reasons to sit down and have a conversation with you.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I've been talking for a while, but one of the things I do want to talk about is your brand run.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Do you call it run slut?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Or do you call it run salt lake?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, this is actually kind of funny.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So, um, it's run slut.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and the reason for that is man, this was probably a mammoth trail fest.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I think it was the inaugural year.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Um, garrett corcoran, um, wild boy, yeah, absolutely wild.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was he forgot a shirt to run in or what, but like he was wearing this like canary yellow shirt and across the front of it it said run slut, and I was like that is fantastic.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I was like, dude, that that is great, he's just a slut for running.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Like that's amazing.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Now, as we all know, it's run Salt Lake, utah.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I completely missed the comma and you know we're sitting at the brewery after the race and I was like, dude, let me make you a shirt, let me make you a shirt.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: He's like yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: He was like one of my buddies is going to do it, and you know I'm going to make it.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: But again, completely missed the comma.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So these shirts just had Runslut blazed all across it and you know the direction that I took.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: It was slightly different than what Garrett had intended, but there is still that you know.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: There's a reason why the comma is so hard to see.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah no, so that's been fun.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we decided, after talking to Garrett about it, just decided to actually make it a thing Trade market, start an actual business and start selling stuff, man.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So here we are.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Dude, I love it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I've seen I mean obviously I've seen Corcoran in it.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I've seen I think Grandpa Arnett's a big fan Like there's plenty, plenty of guys out there and gals in Salt Lake area that like really love it.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, dude I I think it was.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: There's another character I follow that I raced.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It's cirque.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Alto's name is escaping me.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: He was wrapping his shirt the other day.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I was like wow this is really cool.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: This is taking off, man, that's awesome.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's, you know there's.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, uh, yeah, yeah, grant, grant, barnett and freaking um that's another wild boy, dude, oh, my boy, all those boys.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: But you know what?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I think that having that brand those are the dudes, that kind of embody what it is, because I think that, at the end of the day, the reason it was started was because when I look at all the running brands out there, everything is so focused on just it's very PC.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And we just said you know, what?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Let's just get a little crazy with it.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, why not?
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: You know it's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's no need to, you know, sometimes be a little irreverent with something and you know it's all in good fun, you know, at the end of the day, um, something that was actually super surprising to me was I thought my demographic would be like 18 years 18 years old to 30 years old and it's been mostly females, which was I really.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I was.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I did not see that coming at all.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Super cool yeah, all right you welcome it, dude.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I love it, dude.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: I was super stoked and you know I was talking to talking to one of my friends and she said she said, hey, you know what you know, ladies, maybe they just want to own it.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: You know I was like, hey, hell, yeah, let's go.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go here for it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I think it was lara hamilton that reps it all the time.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I gave her.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I gave her.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: So back when we before uh, before we started selling stuff, I was just making freaking tank tops and t-shirts and everything.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I would just hand them out to people who wanted them.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: And, uh, she was one of them.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I was at a mammoth trail fest as well.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: She's like let me get one of those.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: And we had one.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: That's funny has built something pretty awesome, and so, in how quickly it has grown, I mean, heck what this year now they're doing the inaugural, what the 200.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: That's pretty cool.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Pretty cool, I mean, I think it's you know, you know waiting on some permitting and stuff like that.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, it's really cool, he's, he's, he's fantastic.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: And I think the really put the runner first and in doing that, you know they've attracted, you know, you know golden trail series and all this right.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: So you know in in, instead of trying to, you know, make this, you know's doing an amazing job with it yeah, and you've raced a few distances the last few years, right?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: yeah, so I I did the um at mammoth.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I did the 50k on the inaugural year.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: That was the only race I did that year, uh, and then the triple crown.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, um, which that was fun it was.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: It was actually kind of crazy.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: The triple crown ended up ended up doing third overall.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Nice dude, uh, mostly because cam smith wasn't racing it and chad hall, uh, ended up pulling out of the 50k and I ended up.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I ended up podium by 30 seconds over the three days and I was like, oh man, I was remembering back to one of the ascents of Dragon's Back and just absolutely dragging ass and being like I'm done, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: And then at some point, like you know, I could have lost those 30 seconds.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, anyway, it's a cool race.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Raced the Triple Crown, not going to do it this year, thought about doing the 200.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: But, being that, the recovery from the achilles have been kind of slow, it's, it's.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm just gonna be a little bit smarter this time rather than you know, go with my you know, impulsive self and not just 200 mile race 200 miles is so far, it's so far.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, considering what happened at cruel jewel back in may, like I really shouldn't be running anything more than a 50k right now.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: But you know hey dude, we'll keep you.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: We'll keep you in sub ultra man and like for the audience that doesn't know this like you're a stud athlete in your own right, man.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've had great finishes of broken arrow, obviously, and you took the dub at touchers a few years back, which michelino, I know, was very boisterous about putting that on social media and like it was all over aerovite, but it was a big fucking deal, dude it was, uh, wow, um, that race was insane.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: First of all, um, absolutely gorgeous.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I to anybody who has not run tushers, uh, or in that area, uh, in fish lake, uh, you have to go.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely, absolutely gorgeous, um, but yeah, no, that race was, um, that's probably the best race that I've ever run.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I mean, you know, you know, getting getting first place in it.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I I went into it with that goal.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: My brother said that I was absolutely nuts and I and I was, I had no business coaching now for it on that one, yeah, he was well he, funny enough, he actually, um, he actually fired me um six months prior, yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, mclean fired me, and January before, uh, before Tushers, because you know there would be times when he'd put a recovery run on.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And you know, just me being mean, you know, I'm like, you know I'll move it or whatever, and he's just like, look, if you're not going to listen to me, you know, whatever.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, I had enough of the stuff that he put into the training.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I just kind of duplicated it, you know, but you know, increased the volume and I was like this is going to be fine, went into the race with the goal of winning, ran a very, very good race, met some awesome people and and yeah, I mean I think the only reason I got first was because Jimmy Elam wasn't running it that year.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I think he has the course record still.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he beat Schlarb that year.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: It was like back during COVID, it was like Schlarb and some other I forget some other big name guy.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that's a great course, you know, and I remember running it.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I think I ran it in just under 14 hours, right, and I remember seeing his time and I'm like no, how do you do?
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Like how?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: But Jimmy's a freak, he is man, he is.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to like.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's take.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Let's track this from the beginning.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Like I know your formative years, you played a lot of football.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Did you run cross country too, or no?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: no, I did not.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: So I you know, funny enough, I actually started, uh, I started running cause my cousin started running very early on in life and then I stopped, um, and I started playing football, you know, and I think the reason for that was really like, you know, there's neighborhood, you know, neighborhood, kids playing and uh, you know, the running was just, you know, it was like it was just, you know, we always running around and I never really thought of it as you know, kind of a sport and my brother actually played his freshman year and I was was I a junior that year?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: It was rough for him, you know, naturally, him being a freshman and my little brother and I think it was his first year playing football.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So he got, he got beaten down to the point where he decided to join the cross country team team Um and uh, and the rest is history.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: For that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Really, I mean, it was the best move that he could have ever made.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I, you know, I, I played football through high school, Um and what position did you?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Play.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I played center and middle linebacker.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I could see middle linebacker.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I played center dude Very, very, very small center.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, you know, in pop Warner I grew up playing center and it was always because nobody else, you know wanted to play line, wanted to play the position, and I was just like I just want to play and you know, in, you know I got to hit people every play, you know I got fun you know and, and you know that translated really well with playing middle linebacker and um, yeah, and I was quick, so you know it was.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, there was.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you played some big boys and it hurt a little bit, but yeah do you guys run four, run 4-3, 4-4?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: .
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I was a safety.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: They would walk me up to a middle linebacker and I'd play that set when we ran a 4-4, but usually it was a strong safety.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it really depends.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: It changed every year so we had a little bit of fluidity with the coaches at incline high, but sometimes we would actually run a 5 front and actually run a five, uh, five front and actually run nose guard and that's, and I would drop down and end up playing nose guard when we would do that, Um, but uh, typically three, four.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'd be terrified to get tackled by you.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: That's that.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, it was, uh, it was, uh, it was.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: It was a great sport to get your aggression out, man.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: It was either that, or you know, boxing or something like that.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: In, in in football, was it?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: But um yeah, no, I'm not a big dude, it was just fast just really really fast and just kind of mean I can see that all right, I get it, I get it.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Do you so?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I know from your story you've had some battles with concussions in high school football.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so that was one part of it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I think that you playing playing center, playing middle linebacker, you're going head up with people every single play, um, and you know there was a few, you know it was.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: It was back, as you know, back in the day.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: When you know, when we grew up playing Pop Warner, we were doing hitting drills.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: You know, for you love the hitting drills and, um, it takes a toll on you, though I mean when you're, you know, going head up and smashing your head every single from eight years old until you're 18, I mean, um, there's bound to be a little bit of damage.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, I had a had a few concussions, I think.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, there was one game, uh, one game that I had.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I had a concussion in the first quarter.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I don't remember any of it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Um, ended up recording 20 solo tackles.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: That, jesus Christ.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Insane dude Insane, yeah, like I just literally I don't remember any of it and um, uh yeah, never played that well that, ever, ever again, but uh, yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: So I definitely dealt with those concussions and I think that, um, you know that, mixed with the, you know, as I'm sure we'll get into the, you know the drug use, you know, really took a toll on the memory and I think that you know, recovering from that is, I mean that's, years in the making, man, I mean my memory.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: It'll probably come up in this podcast where you know I'll just lose my train of thought.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: You know it's and you know I know I mean cte, we'll see, yeah I mean, it's a real thing, man it like no, it is dude, I was just googling.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Do you know who luke keekley is?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: yes I was literally just googling something about luke keekley the other day and like I don't know if you saw, like when he retired from the panthers, like the concussion that dude got, but like he was like drooling seeing stars getting carted off the field and then I think it was the next day or within the next week he like retired and I was just like god damn dude, like it's like I can't imagine how much he probably cut his life short, like playing, playing the game of ball, and it's like the risk reward and it's like such a fun game, you know.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: But right what happens for it, but what happens to you when you're 50 years old and you can't string?
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a sentence.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: You're drooling, yeah, you get dementia and it's or Parkinson's.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know it's a tricky situation, man, because I don't think you're going to be able to you know, regardless of all the rule changes and everything that they make.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you take that out.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: That's the game, dude.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: It's the way the game story long, because we we talk a little bit about high school, high school football.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Um, dude, one of the stories and you can you don't have to talk about this is totally open to you.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: But one of the stories you had talked about was like defending michelino in a fight.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: When you got in your write up, talk about that which time, dude, I swear that boy, um, yeah, so, um, we were taught from a young age to always protect each other, protect our family.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: You know, um and my little brother he's two years younger than me, so we were always in school with you know, because we'd go to charter schools and things like that, so we'd always kind of be around each other in a lot more than, uh, a normal set of siblings where you know you'd have, you know, one set of middle school and then you know two years, whatever, anyway, I think, it.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: The first time was in the.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I was in the fourth grade, I think.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: We were out playing in the snow and you know, just as you know, just kids being kids.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: But there was this one kid.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: He's a bully.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: His name is Mike Weasel and it's totally fitting name but Mike Weasel, and it's totally fitting name, but, um, mike Weasel and his parents, uh, his parents were lawyers, it's just, it's perfect.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: But, um, they're all playing in the snow, doing snowball fights and everything, but Mike.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, mike Weasel grabbed Michelino and started whitewashing and putting his, pushing his face in the snow, and it was clear that Mike was in distress and didn't want to have anything to do with it.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: So I ran over there, um, and and threw Mike Weasel off of my brother and ended up, you know, proceeded to kick him repeatedly in the back, uh, to the point where, uh, he had to.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: An ambulance came to the school, um, picked up Mike Weasel, uh, apparently something had happened to his kidneys where he was peeing blood.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I got brought to the principal's office, their parents threatened to sue us and I don't even know how Mike got into it.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, mike Michelino could have said something and provoked the entire thing, but at the end of the day, he's my little brother and I think that it goes all the way to present day.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: It's family.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: dude, you've got gotta defend family, yeah you know, I mean, you know what's going on with him and um, you know the, the, the, the teton, uh, fkt, um dispute and suit um we can talk about sage canady later, if you want yeah, oh, sage oh gosh I don't know, I don't know, I don't know if he's worth the breath, but yeah, so, seeing like all those people coming after him, you know, ever since we were young, he was always protecting him, always protecting him, and that went through high school.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: There were multiple times there were parties where, you know, someone was picking on him and getting in a fight with this person because of Michelino.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: But you know, it was because of him, it was just because, you know, he gets himself in a situation.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I'm his older brother and you know, period, end of story.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: That's my job.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, come hell or high water, that's what we were taught.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, for better or worse.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And you know, like I said, you know, and that's kind of what, that's what bothered me the most about this whole thing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Um, with know, and it's mostly internet trolls, I get that, but you know, seeing the amount of vitriol and and and just general hate come his way, for you know what could really just be labeled, at best, a misunderstanding.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Right, you know and like and you know, I think that I think they're, they're, they're taking it all in stride and you know they're, they're, they're, but for me, seeing that stuff absolutely boils my blood.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: And he's cool as a cucumber right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So, like Michelino is like whatever, it's fine, it's all going to work itself out.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like no, fuck all these people, dude, and you know what.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like people and again I won't spend too much time on it, but people like Sage know has has a presence in the running community for a long time Now.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Granted, you know I don't think he's done much of anything um over over the last few years, but you know he's.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: He he's has a bunch of people who follow him and listen to what he has to say, and he's going on websites and insinuating that people that run FKTs, like McLean, are taking it.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: You know, taking PEDs and you're like because you're trying to avoid drug testing.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And you're like that was, that was, that was the case you made, and you're like yo dude, like, first of all, you know there's not enough money to do that.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: You know better, dude like come on and you know, and then, and I guess, look, you know, when people fall one of them, but it, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: It's sad to see because, like you know, I came into this community and I, you know, I would say that in, you know, in my recovery, you know, accepting me with open arms, right, you know, and, and I think that you know, I think I put a little bit too much stock in that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, kind of seeing what, what has happened with michelino is just a little bit disheartening.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Um, people were very quick to turn.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah and like some hateful things said on the internet, dude, I I mean, I listen, I argued with my fair share.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Trolls like oh yeah in those comments I was talking some shit.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I was like yo dude, anytime, anyplace, anywhere.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Like how could you say that to someone you don't even know?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Like it's just crazy.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Well, you, know, you know, and of the day, look it's.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You can get on there and you could comment back.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: You know, but you're just going to get yourself riled up, it's not going to do anything.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: So you know I, I did take a step back from the whole thing and you know like we'll talk about it here and he doesn't even well.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is, and I told him this I was like dude, like you're, you're kind of famous now like for better or for worse, like you know what I said to him, because he said this we were talking not too long ago and he said, um, it was right after the free trail thing.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Like I said to him, I was like, dude, like this story is crazy enough, you should try and get on rogan.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: And the reason I said that was because cam uh, what's his name?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Who's um rogan's good friend?
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Cam, something?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: oh, cam haynes.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, followed it, followed him.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like fuck dude, like you gotta talk to this guy and see if you can get on.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Like see if he can get you an introduction or something, because, like michelino's story is just crazy enough from a government perspective.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: 100.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: And like there's just so much like misuse at the top.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Um, like you're you're trying to put a runner like you're trying to like it's.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: It's just a crazy thing that like that sounds like something like rogan would listen to and like, but talk to him I don't know putting this out in the universe, but 100 I, you know, I told him the same thing.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I said hey look, man, you know, like you gotta, you know, at the end of the day, if, if you really look at this story, you know it's insane what they're doing.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And again, like you said, the money that you're spending to try to make an example of somebody who you're making the example of the wrong person.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know man.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: It's crazy, right.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely nuts and you know, and I think that it's going to settle itself.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: You know, everything happens for a reason and, as you said, the story is crazy and it's just going to make for an even better story.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Because I'll maintain this and I don't care what anybody says about it.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: He has the FKT and the thing is, if he goes for it again and breaks the record again, it's like now what?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Now what?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I just can't say anything.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And I think that's where he's at with it.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And you know what that and you know what.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: That's a great mental.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: You know that's a great approach.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: The whole time it seems like he's been in a very like positive mental space.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, 100%, no for sure.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to you and talk a little bit about drug use and recovery, yeah, and your situation.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: With that, I'm going to leave the door open for you to talk.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Very inspiring and I think a lot of people can draw inspiration from it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Um, I was actually kind of thinking about this before I came in and I was wondering where, where to start with all of this.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And, you know, being that this is a, you know, a running focused podcast, I think that you know it would be important to to highlight the fact that, you know, running did have an a huge, huge, huge, uh, uh impact in and, and you know, it was such a big tool for me in recovery, um, but I started running before I got sober, um, and for me, uh, I so, leading into it, um, the first trail run that I ever did was a Moab half marathon, absolutely fell in love with it and from then on, I mean, I, just I, I would, you know, signed up for race after race after race, and it was just being in the mountains and finding something that you know I could connect with.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: All the while Was still drinking heavily, still smoking, and I was still on antidepressants, which ended up being the big, big issue for me, just, you know, a tricky, tricky topic.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: But I think that you know, in my situation, the way everything happened was I've, I've, uh, I struggled with accepting the fact that I couldn't control myself.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I told myself over and over and over that this time it's going to be different.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: All the while, there's a little voice inside your head that knows you're fucking lying and it's not.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Until you actually let that voice come through and call you on your bullshit.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: And I let that little voice that would rationalize and make excuses, I let that voice win for decades.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Um, I first started using heavily when I was 18.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, you know, drink smoke pot, all that shit before, you know, early in high school, um, but it was like 18 when I got into uh, uh pharmaceuticals, um, to the point where, um, I would be stealing uh pharmaceuticals from my girlfriend's mom, um, and which.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: You know that that whole habit of uh of getting pills and needing them and all that uh led to selling them and uh, to try to support that habit, and it all kind of spiraled, really spiraled out of control.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: And the only thing that really pulled me out initially was when I had my daughter I was still using up until the point she was born and I remember sitting there in the hospital and the moment I got to sit and look at her in the bassinet and that moment that everybody talks about it's you know it's cliche at this point, but that switch that flips.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: There's this intense feeling of love and and just just needing to protect this little thing with everything I had.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: And that's when I stopped using hard drugs.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: The sinister thing about that is that, even though I wasn't using the opiates and the benzos and everything that also absolutely demolished my memory you still had alcohol, you still had marijuana and I still had an addiction problem.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't fixing anything, I was just substituting.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: So the drinking got heavier, I was throwing myself into work a lot and I was neglecting my family.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: And you know, my 20s just went away.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: They evaporated, I can tell you, like you know, from 22 till 28,.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I remember some of the times that happened, but I can't tell you anything super meaningful that happened.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: And when I was 28, I told myself I was getting fat.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I was like 195 pounds.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I think at that point, heaviest, I was getting fat.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I was like 195 pounds.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I think at that point, um, heaviest I've ever been.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And uh, I said, you know what Everyone always says it's hard to lose weight when you turn 30.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna start running.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna start running.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: My brother runs, I'm gonna start running.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: So it just started off as me running at four miles here, you know, and just and just kind of started getting more and more fit.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: But you know, again, there was still the drinking, there was still the smoking, and so the weight was was, you know, taking a lot, of, a lot of time to come off and the whole thing.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the backdrop of all of this, which, again, it's kind of a tricky subject with antidepressants, because I know for a lot of people they help and everything like that, but for me it was quite the opposite.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: So all during these times I was on and off antidepressants.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: My early 20s was this one or that one, and you know.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, I think I need to go and solve it again.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: So I'd go to the doctor, right, and I'd ask him, for you know meds and a little did I know, um, and I come to find out that I had bipolar uh, bipolar two disorder, and if you take antidepressants without a mood stabilizer it'll make you go manic or hypomanic, and that's what ended up happening to me.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And it was about two years, two solid years of me being hypomanic, just cycling in and out, in and out, in and out.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Can you explain what exactly that means to be?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: a hypomanic yeah, so I can explain manic and then I'll explain a hypomanic yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So, um, I can explain manic and then I will uh, and then I'll explain the hypomania.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: So mania is, uh, so bipolar one disorder.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, typically, when you have, if anybody has a relative or know somebody who has relative who, um, has bipolar one, you'll, you'll know they, they, they typically will go absolutely out of their minds, right Like to the point where you know their profits, just delusions of grandeur, right, times 10.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Like it's absolutely nuts, it's just, it's completely.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: It's basically the best way to describe it is think about a bunch of firecrackers going off in your brain and those, each one of those firecrackers is a thought and an impulse and a this and a that, and it's like that constantly manias, like times 10, where hypomania is just a little bit less than that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: So with bipolar two disorder, what happens is you get really, really elevated and you just kind of sit there but what it?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: What?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: It kind of comes off as is someone who's just really excited and, you know, happy, you know talking a lot, all of that, a lot of energy, but still somewhat controllable, and then what happens is you end up crashing and those crashes last, you know, anywhere from.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: You know four days to seven days, it really depends.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: But the way that everybody saw me was like, oh, he's just really happy, he's not depressed, the antidepressants are working.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yet every weekend, after you tie one on Friday night, saturday morning you wake up and you're sleeping that off and you're depressed until the next Wednesday.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: And that would just keep repeating, and repeating, and repeating.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And the biggest, uh, the side effect of the mania that was the most detrimental was, uh, the impulsivity.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Um, so in those two years I um started a piercing business, a body piercing business.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: I trained as a body piercer back when I was 18 at Lucky 7 Tattoo in Kings Beach, California, and decided, hey, I'm going to do that again.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: It's only been 12 years, you know, 14 years, I can do this right.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And everybody around me thought it was a great idea, like, oh, you know, just being an entrepreneur, you know.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Then I cut my hair into a mohawk, I dyed it red, then I dyed it gray and then I dyed it purple in the matter of two months.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, wow, yeah, so.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: So those are the types of things that I was doing right and like, and again.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: You know, people look and again, look I.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: You know I I can be a, you know I'm pretty eccentric person, I could be a little bit flamboyant.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So like the thing is is that people would kind of look at it and go, oh, you know, it's just frank.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: But the thing is it was frank times 10, and it wasn't until I absolutely crashed and hit the wall, um with that, uh, and ended up having a, having a, having a mental breakdown.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: It was quite literally when, sitting in a corner rocking back and forth, that was me, oh my God, just crying because I didn't know what to do anymore.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I just didn't know how to.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: I came to a point where it's like, dude, I was sleeping three hours a night.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Those weren't three consistent hours, they were broken hours, right.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: So it's like you sleep for 30 minutes, you're up for an hour, you know, and it's like that every night, and you wake up at five in the morning, bam, ready to go, and all the way up until the nighttime you fall asleep and then you wake up and wake up, and so it's just this vicious cycle.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: And this whole time you're functioning at work.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Sort of Okay, sort of Um I was getting my work done.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Um, I ended up having to take actually took a leave of absence from work.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Um, when I initially got sober, it took a took about a month off.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough to be able to do that Um, but you know it, it you know it did impact work.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: You know it did in in.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I am very lucky that my life didn't absolutely implode because you know there's there's countless stories that are like mine, where people do not end up on the other side of it.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: You know like they end up homeless, or just you know what have dead right, um, you know, but I was fortunate enough to have the family that I do, uh, have the job that I do, and um was able to get me through that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: And you know, here we are three.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: You know, three and a half years later and, you know, still working on it actively.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: You know, um, I'm not going to sit here and say that, you know, every day is this huge struggle not to drink or anything like that, because, you know, once I figured out the whole, you know, bipolar issue and got off those antidepressants, um, those impulsive thoughts, you know they, they went away.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I started sleeping again.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Um, I didn't have this incredible urge to drink and, uh, you know, by no means am I fixed because if I go back to drinking, I'm going to continue to drink, right, like I can't, I can't, I can't do it anymore.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I always say is there's a song, uh, by Blake Blake Shelton?
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's when I drink.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: It says when I have one, I have 13, every single time, man, so, um, yeah, that I would say that that's probably the reader's digest version of it.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Um, but, uh, yeah, hypomania was the?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, was the was the big thing that I didn't, didn't, uh, didn't find out.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Until you know, until I was three months sober and going to my, going to my doctor and uh, you know, I was sober about 30 days and, uh, I started not sleeping again and I started getting scared.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: So I asked my doctor.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I was like, hey, what's going on, dude?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Like he's like, oh well, you know, you're only 30 days clean, you know, and sometimes this happens and I'm like, no, I'm like this feels eerily similar to before Um, so I just took matters in my own hands, titrated off the meds, um, it was a little rough, like the last two weeks, but, like I said, the sleep started recovering and slowly but surely, you know, the episodes were, you know, you know, spaced out because I would still have, um, you know, I would still have hypomanic episodes and they would, you know, last anywhere from a week and you know to, to two weeks.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And you know, uh, it's not up until recently, till that I could tell when I'm actually in one Um, it's usually after the fact.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that was probably, like that was a little impulsive, like I probably shouldn't have done that, you know, or I shouldn't have said that, um, but uh, you know, tying this all back into running.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: You know running is the thing, that kind of you know running and physical activity.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to just lump it all into running, but running and physical activity is really what keeps me in a mental state where I don't have to take medication anymore, because the alternative is to take antidepressants and a mood stabilizer.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: And frankly, I wasn't willing to make that compromise, so still putting in work every day.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, man, there's a lot to unpack from this.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I I know I have a question about like titrating off of benzodiazepines and stuff like that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Like dude, I've heard that is a horrible process um, okay, so the benzos, so I would.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: So I was actually.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I've never been prescribed benzos, um, I never took them for my mental health, um, but I did abuse them, um, and I didn't find out until later on in life.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Um, I would take a, I would take a methadone, uh, and two Klonopin, so um an opiate and two, uh, two benzos, um, multiple times a day, um, that was that was like the cocktail of choice, if you will.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't find out till later that that was an absolutely deadly combination and then also, getting off benzos immediately can kill you.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I did both of those things.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Cause like you're a durable dude man.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I, I the fact that the fact that I didn't die in my twenties is an absolute miracle, and and so now we're going to take advantage of it, because there's a reason we're here.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, if, uh, if only my Achilles was as durable.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, dude, uh, it's, uh, it's been, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's been.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Interesting, like I said just.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: But looking back at the whole, like the, the methadone and the Klonopin thing it was like I should have been dead multiple times multiple times.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: So crazy.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to transition this into running a little bit, but I still have so many questions like um, so what has been the process like of like completely, like, how hard is it for you to be able to like completely, be like no, I cannot have a drink.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what is that like?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: interestingly enough, um, it it hasn't been, it hasn't been that difficult and and I hate saying that, um, because I, you know, I remember going through early recovery and when you go to group and everything like that, and you'd see guys in there, you know guys in their fifties, sixties who you know.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, like, hey, you know two weeks clean.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: You know, and I'm sitting there, I'm like yo, I can't, I can't, I can't be 50 years old and and, and, and, and, be like and be that, be that guy, you know.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: But hearing them every single time coming into the meeting saying how hard it was for them to drive by the liquor store, and I never had those feelings, it felt kind of guilty.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like man, I'm like the, I'm like the shittiest alcoholic here, Like you know what I mean Like I don't have, like I don't have these urges, and I, you know, and I asked them, I was like what is this, you know?
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And they're like oh no, sometimes that's you know, sometimes that's good.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Some people you just turn it off, yeah.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And I am fortunate in that I can do that.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Um, I will say that in the beginning it was difficult with social situations.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I wasn't in a place to do that, Um, you know now, I, you know, I, I, you know, I don't keep alcohol in my house, for, you know, for for reasons, you know, because you know I have kids and all that, and I just don't need it there.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Um, but whenever I go to someone's house and they have booze, it doesn't bother me.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I can go to a bar and hang out with people, and in the beginning it wasn't like that, Um, and you know, again, I think that, as I say that you still don't take your foot off the gas when it comes to the the, you know the understanding that if you do slip up because you can't let that little voice you know that I'm talking about the one, that's the one that tries to rationalize you can't let them, let him come back in.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: You just can't, because then you're, then you're right back to square one and you know, again, seeing those dudes that were 50, 60 years old and that was their life.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Nope, nope, not doing it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: So it's been a lot, it's been easy, it formerly had addictions is it's this all or nothing mentality in some ways, and I'm curious with you because it can be like like, for instance, like you've had, like, some success at the racing scene dude and like having not really run like you know, not having a massive background of running like cross country or at the collegial level or anything like that.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Like you go and win toshers right, like what is that?
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: What does racing bring out in you?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of curious about that.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: No, there is a, you know, look, I think that I think that this sport does bring out, um, bring out those types of people, Um, and for me, uh, and for anybody who's dealt with recovery or you, interesting things happen in their lives that get you to that mental state.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Is that you find a new relationship with pain.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I think is the biggest thing Is.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: For me, there were so many things that hurt so bad that, just like this physical thing, it's not the same anymore.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: You know, like the way that your legs feel like that's going to make you stop.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: It's not, You're not going to stop, and I think that there is an all or nothing component to it.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Interesting that you know.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: You just like with the drinking, you know, if I have one, I'll have 13.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Well, if I'm going to go out and race, I'm going to go out and fucking race.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: You know, and I have one, I'll have 13.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Well, if I'm going to go out and race, I'm gonna go out and fucking race, you know, and it doesn't mean like, well, that's a look I could, I would describe myself as a middle of the pack dude.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Right, I have no business winning touchers, you know I'll, I'll be honest with you, um, but I think, having that, that mentality of fuck it, let's go Like we're just gonna, we're just gonna, we're just gonna burn it to the ground and you do that, um, but you don't have to ask of it, it's just there, you know it's.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: It's almost like it's second nature.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: This is what we do, and if we fuck up and then then then that's what happens, um.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you take that approach, uh, to training um, to life Um.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the whole cliche of you know, oh, I'm training for life, Um, now, every day, every day, you zero to 60, you know, and so, yeah, it's same thing with drinking.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So why not?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: You know, put that into something more positive, right?
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: You know, uh, instead of you know, instead of me, instead of me using, or whatever, you know, we can start a business, you know.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: So, run slut.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: And here we are here we are.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean so so, yeah, it's, it's it definitely.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: The past shapes our future.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Right, it's just a matter of are we going to mold it or, you know, just let just let let the universe, you know, do its thing.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: You know, just let just let let the universe, you know, do its thing.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, I think that that all or nothing mentality, it's.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: That's why this sport brings so many misfits, um, like myself, um, and why they're so accepting of those misfits, right?
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting sport, man.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: It's the greatest sport on earth, In my opinion.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I would, I would football is great.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I would agree, man.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I really do think that you know, even even being somebody that grew up playing football and still love, I still love football.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: You know, still love the Steelers, you know um will to the day I die, but you know running has given me way more than football has.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: It's a weird thing, Like I was thinking about this actually earlier was one of the reasons why I love the sport so much.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: And like in football, right, two teams play for the championship.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: In running, like, let's say, let's talk about worlds, or we can talk about world's qualifiers, right, like any person can compete for that championship.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And in any person having the right day, that train the right way and happens to be a little bit faster, like if it's your day, it's your day, and like you have everybody's got an equal shot more or less, right, fitness matters, obviously, and then it's a little bit of a tough guy contest, but like other other than that, like, yeah, it's, it's.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: It's an interesting sport where, like, everybody can line up and see what happens on any given day oh yeah, I mean, just look at just this past, uh, past weekend with black canyons.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: You had seth, come in there.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, like you know he's, he's.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I think he's still in north face, right yeah, yeah, yeah you know he comes in there, absolutely crushes.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: That I mean and and then that was eli was right behind, took eli to the woodshed and eli was heavily favored as as the guy dude, you know he was one of the best of the best in the world at this point.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: But like you, said I mean you have, and you have probably 10 other guys that are lining up with them that could have done that exact same thing if it was just their day and it's, it's.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: It's crazy to think that watching 100k and following that live stream is going to be exciting, but it, it, it is.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, granted, you know we're kind of kind of nerds about it, but I mean, yeah, I mean it's fun.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Right, it's still fun man, it's crazy how many people like dude, like I, gotta be honest, like I tailored, tailored my whole workout around it, like I went, did you know, did my workout on the incline came right home I was parked in front of the computer for the rest of the day like cheering on, cheering on the front pack.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: You know it's crazy.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: And especially for like somebody like seth, I really gotta say admire, because like seth had been very hot and cold last year and like finally put it together and like what he was fully capable of was like damn, that dude's world class so, yeah, good for him.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Dude, like, yeah, you know it's, it's.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's funny too, because that was it seth came from.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, I think he's a chattanooga.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's man yeah, chattanooga, and he's.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think he was a triathlete or something like that yeah, so yeah and just to like I don't know, I give kudos to anybody that can beat eli, because eli in my I hold eli to such a high standard.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Oh he's a stud dude, he's one of the best in the world?
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely no.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: When I saw that, I was like yeah, damn, it's crazy.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: And then, like I think the complete unknown guy came in second.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: It was the second or third, I can't remember if it was second or no, because joe mcconaughey got third, so it was second.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Some like totally like blue collar dude that nobody had ever heard of, showed up in second place like random baller.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I was like I see, that's the thing I love about the sport is like when these absolutely so my, this is my bold prediction because, like we have, broken arrow is going to be bananas this year because we'll have, you know, three, two qualifying races there plus golden trail series race and then soon api will be the up-down for the world's qualifier.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: One of those races, I think Broken Arrow and Broken Arrow in its entirety, is going to be won, probably by a pro, but I could very well see something like Soonapie.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Because of the nature of the up-down, especially two loops, more than likely you'll see David Sinclair or Christian Allen win it.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: But I could totally see just some unknown track stud just come out and just win that race or at least get on the podium and make a name for himself to get on the world stage.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: It'll be cool to see.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fun to follow.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I would love to see a complete unknown completely get in there.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Again, I think the sport is growing, but it's at that point where you still get to see those sorts of things.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I guess it would be what equivalent of some sort of like a cinderella story, right?
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know uh, no, it is cool, but you know, broken arrow though, man, I'm telling I'm holy shit dude, I am oh big excited is for that this year it's gonna be a big party.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and you guys, I mean you're from king's beach, so like it's like right down the street man right down.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that race I mean that that was actually my broken arrow was my first ultra.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Um was the first 50 K I ever did.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Uh, and, funny enough, and before I got sober too, cause I was baked out of my mind on that race, dude, no, no, you don't understand.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine being high as fuck like running around that Um yeah, I, I don't think I remember the first lap, Um, but yeah, a lot of edibles um ran that race.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Uh was last race that I ever uh ran intoxicated, Um, but uh, being that it was my first ultra.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: That's like I.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Those guys do something special.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Now I should say us, we do something.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I am technically, I technically work for them now, Um, so we are putting on something special.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Brendan, um, Steve, um, Jeff, uh, those guys, Ethan, I mean, wow.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: The thing with broken arrow is that, like I had mentioned before, they have these huge races that they're going to be putting on.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Um, I can tell you that the, the ethos remains the same from when it started, is that you know, whether you're first or last, everybody's a rockstar.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: That is a hundred percent.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Every single one of those people that that works for that for broken arrow, or volunteers for broken arrow.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: That's what it's about.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: So I think every year I get so excited for it because it is a huge party.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: You know, see all the friends, family and they're.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: They're a race that when they put it on like it's, they mean it.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: You know they, they really, really cherish every single runner.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Um, and I wanted to be a huge, I wanted to be part of it, Like I was getting my first ultra right.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I was like I, you know.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: So I volunteered.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Every year after that, um, the year that I did the triple crown, um, I volunteered, uh.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: So I went and volunteered wednesday, thursday, ran the race, um, and then you know, uh, you know, I took the nights off, but I love that, love, love that race, man, love that race.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: It's such a, such a beautiful thing, man.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I, I can't.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like, as an athlete in the sport, you can't not do it at least once.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Like I've already been out there.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I plan to go back, either this year or in a future year, depending on where my schedule can fit it.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I mean, I just can't believe this year they got two, two world qualifier races.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: You know it's and a goal, and you know I feel like and kudos to brandon finally getting the flowers that he's due because they finally got a Golden Trail Series race.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it should have always been.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Listen, you know it's a fast race, it's a fast.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I mean the course isn't super technical, it's very fast, but it's got like it's got some serious vertical to it, like it's very much like worthy of being a Gold Trail Series race.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So I'm happy that he finally was able to pull it out.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, and you know, look there, there are some, there are some sections of it that are that are fairly technical.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, granted, it's, it's only like little sections here and there.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, for me, broken arrow, that that kicked my butt is the uh, when you're coming down, uh, when you're coming down off the top and coming through siberia and then down into into shirley, that fire road is like running on concrete.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so fast it's, it's just fast, just pounding, pounding downhill, and then you got to do it again on the 50k um and that second lap.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I've seen a few people where it their legs blow up.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, dude most of the people in first in, like in the front pack in the first group.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Like generally fade on the front after the first lap and yeah oh yeah, and that downhill.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: It is unforgiving, it is unfair, but a beautiful, absolutely beautiful race, beautiful race yeah, yeah, that's super exciting.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: What so you're?
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: You're not racing this year.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Are you a broken arrow?
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: no, no, I've been.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: So I've been working at the last few years, yeah what's it like to work for them?
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: How's that?
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're amazing, I know.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Again, I just loved again Jeff, Steve, the guys in Jason those are the guys I probably work with directly, but everybody they're so welcoming and again it's like what they preach is what they're about.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Every single one of those people are, are, are genuine.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Um, but no, I, one of these days I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll, take a break from working it and and run it again.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Um, I think this year my mom is planning on running the 11 K.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: I love it, dude, I love it.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if Michelino's going to come back and do it, but I know my mom's planning on doing.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: He signed up for the 46K.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I've got to ask him.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, he did.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, here's the deal.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: He's a passion champion, right, and it's a world's qualifier he's got to come.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: He's got to come.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's homecoming.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: He's kind of got to win it and I know he's already said I'm going to put words in his mouth from the last podcast we did.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: But he did say he's finally got to beat David Sinclair.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: So you know, man, if he's going to talk that shit.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: Here we go Absolutely, and you know look if there.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: If there's, I love to see that again.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I remember it was I think it was two years ago when David won Broken Arrow.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: He beat Mike and Mike's legs blew up on that downhill.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: David is holy shit good.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, holy shit good is a great way to put it.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: He's a freak man, yeah.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Absolute freak athlete.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: So much to the point where, like, yeah, he's got potential to be, like he might be the in the world, like it's that crazy, like how good he is.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I don't know it's going to be interesting Cause he'll probably have his pick and then the vertical is going to be sick Dude.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Think about it.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Like this too.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: I've been talking about this for a while.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I know it's not official yet, but like also did the ascent.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: So I wonder if you're gonna get remy in a vk this year in the ascent matchup and it's a joe, remy, patrick kip and diego.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have el huzzine if they'll come, because, like, they're all gonna be doing the golden trailer series race and it's a sunday race.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: So it's like you're gonna get and that's a friday and you know the vk is on friday.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So it's like why not race that?
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: So you might have like a pike's peak ascent rematch from like 2023 on your hand.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: It could be the most competitive race on american soil.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: It's very possible that would be.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: That would be awesome.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm hoping that's why you put it in the universe though yeah, oh, dude, I'm calling for it like a broken air, like brandon madigan, if you're listening to this, like you need to get out remy, get out, hold remy's agent and like get him to sign up for that.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: This happened, brandon.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that would be sick.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Um, and it'll push, like you know, like think about that, like if it'll push the front pack, especially if you got patrick in there and you've got remy in there, like you're gonna have obviously joe gray who's gonna be competing for the win, you'll have plenty of guys up front.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: So it's just gonna push the times faster and you're gonna get get to see, like you know, kind of a prelude, you know, on a larger end, to what world is going to be like.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: With the exception of Alex Rickard I don't know if anybody's even heard of him.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Dude, alex Rickard was like the last, probably one of the last few people to beat Joe and he beat him in a world's qualifier, should say he beat him at Soonapy and he's an I think he's a North Face athlete.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: He lives in Squamish, nobody like very under the label kind of guy I'm trying to get on the podcast right now, but like fucking killer dude.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's going to be and like there's all these like random, like ballers that'll be coming out.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: So it's going to be wild.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: It seems like every year there's a new one that pops up.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: You, what makes the sport so exciting?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: And the growth right now, you know, and again there's going to be those growing pains, as we've seen, you know, with UTMB and all this stuff.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: But man, it's exciting, like it's really exciting.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: And just to see, like you know, right now you got to think, man, all these people that are setting these records and and just there's some kid in middle school right now watching all of this growth and they're going to be the next one dude, and that's that is awesome.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is awesome the professional initiation of the sport is kind of crazy too, because, like now, it's getting to the point where, like people can make full-time livings like be a full-time athlete, which is cool, like, and it's going to be.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think next we'll we'll eventually be in the space which I think we're already at, where course records are just going to go down every year like it's going to continue to to be that way, because there's so much you know like people can dedicate, you know, 40 hours a week to a training block which people could formally not do, right?
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: you know there's so much time.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I mean when you, when you have, when you have all those resources to be able to dedicate to your craft.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: We are about to see something crazy in this sport.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean look, I look with, look with.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Uh, look what david did, yeah, at leadville, right, I mean oh yeah, dude, holy shit crazy yeah nobody takes down a matt carpenter record like that's nuts, you know, and and it's gonna get faster.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's awesome, david you know, and I gotta say I respect david a lot, like he's calling a shot now, like a little bit more, like dude, he's fucking coming from western states, whether he massively implodes or he pulls it off.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Like I'm here for with my popcorn, like I want to follow along, like it's it's good.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: You know, and I don't know, I just like people that like put their shit out there and just like see what happens you know, and he's a love him or hate him kind of guy.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know he really is.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: You know there's a lot of you know there's there's a lot of divisiveness because you know David and then some other coaches out there that you know trade barbs online.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, look, you say put up or shut up.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he did.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: So I mean, look, he can talk the shit when he's walking it, man.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: His training has been insane dude so like I you know I'm a big Wamsley fan, I really love Jim and you know I'm a big wamsley fan, I really love jim.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: And like I just want to see jim continue to like be successful in the sport.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: But like damn, like western states could be like bananas next year, like especially like there's a lot of talk with killian running kiante.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Like if killian wins that and goes to western states as well, like with seth, with all these guys, and then dude michelino might be in the mix I know he's running canyons, so like the 100k he could be in there too.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Like it's gonna be fucking crazy with all these people out there yeah, yeah, the men's race is gonna be wild yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be, it's going to be something to watch, I mean, and week after broken arrow, we're going to be up in tahoe, so we'll be there absolutely and one.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: If michelino's running, I mean, look that you Canyon, so he's got to show up for that.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: But we'll crew, we'll crew If, if he, if he decides to run there you go, man.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's going to be interesting too, cause, like, wait, how would that?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if that would change the calculus, for I got, we got to ask him if that would change the calculus for broken arrow versus Western.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know how that works, I don't know, yeah, you know, I look, knowing, knowing him, knowing him, I mean I'm not gonna look he could do and do his own thing, but I would say that he would probably still just run broken arrow and just skip.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's a little more fun.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I there's.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I have no incentive to ever run 100 miles.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: A lot of people do, but I don't think he does either that's the thing is.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: he's just kind of like why he's like I'm?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know he's still fast yeah.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, dude.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: This, this is what drives me crazy.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: It's like you know, I I meet so many people in the sport that are like oh, longer is better, like, longer is more fun, and I'm like is it like?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I just love to like completely empty, like if I could empty myself in a 10 K and like Like, for instance, like a Cirque series race, have you run one?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: yet yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Dude there's so much fun.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: There's super fun.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: And just so competitive.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, michelino whooped my ass at Grand Targhee.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: It was so much fun and like it was like I would do.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: It's all I'm going to make my season next year is more Cirque series races, because it's like it's a beautiful backdrop getting up a mountain and down, oh yeah, um.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: And it's so fast and you get to like literally learn how to race because, like, if you make one mistake, you're not winning.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: If you make one, two mistakes, you're out of the top 10.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: You can't fuck up.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a hundred percent.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: I raised Tarhe.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, it was the only Cirque series race that I ever did.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Um, it was me and raised a raised tar.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: He and I took a.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Um, you're going down the fire road.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: At one point you're supposed to turn off yeah and I did it.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: I just kept running straight down and I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think I've been seeing any flags and I look up and I see all these people that I had passed previously, taking a turn, and I'm like well, there goes that but oh my gosh, no, but julian puts on he awesome event.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: It's just because I mean you're passionate about something, man.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I mean he, you can really see it when, what he does, yeah, but yeah, I agree those fast things, but to say that running longer is, there's so much different.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so much different sport.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: You get.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I mean you get, you get.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: So you, you get so much, and I guess from from my perspective, is that you get so much, something so much different out of a 100 miler as you do like a 50k or like a half marathon, right, uh, it's a, it's a way, different experience.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, like those longer distances, I mean they're spiritual dude I mean like there becomes.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: There come points where it's just like I don't know if I can do this, I'm gonna die um, you know, I, I mean, like you know, shit for me, a cruel jewel doing that, doing that 100 miler miler man, I mean I, I think my legs blew up, um, like officially, just were totally torched by like mile 30.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, it was.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: It was just real vision quest.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: The rest of it A hundred percent?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, Absolutely no.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: I remember seeing Michelino.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: So Mike, Mike came out and crewed me, Him and my friend Sarah, and I remember seeing him.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I was running down the road.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: I was eight miles into the race and my calf started cramping up and I was like he's like how you feeling.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I'm like I'm cramping.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: He's like already, I'm like I know, I know, dude, and it didn't get any better.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: And then my buddy Corey.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: He ended up rolling his ankle.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: And he dropped at like 25.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: And then, when I'm cory, walter waltering, yeah, oh shit yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Me and cory got uh, me and cory got sober together, dude, oh no shit yeah he's somebody I gotta get on the podcast.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: He's a.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: He's a he's a, he's a good buddy man.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, no, absolutely, cory is, uh, he's great dude man, a great dude.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm very, very happy to know him.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, when he he got hurt, uh, he rolled his ankle at mile, like something was 25, I think I found out at like mile 30 and mike's like, um, you know, at this point I think I was in like fourth place.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: He's like you're doing good, dude.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: He's like cory.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: You know cory, you know cory just dropped.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: You know you're in this position.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I was like he dropped.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I was like fuck.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: I was like well, this sucks, you know.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: So my legs hurt and now my, my buddies I can't chase my buddy like this, this, this, yeah.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: And then the rest of the night was rough.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Uh, I remember forgetting dude, there was one point, um, it was at mile 30.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: I was out of it.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I was out of it.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: They handed me my headlamp.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: They gave me, you know, packed up my vest and everything, at the aid station, ready to go.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: At some point I took my headlamp out of my bag and just set it on the car, inexplicably, just put it on the car and left.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: God, there wasn't another crew stop until it was going to be dark.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: So I got to the next aid station and the sun's going down and she's the lady was like she's like hey, you know, headlamp check.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh yeah, no headlamp.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: I was like crap.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: But in my head, dude, I was like all right, that's it, I don't have my headlamp.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I got to quit.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Now, dude, lady's like hold on one second.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: I got an extra.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like no, you don't.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my God she comes out with the headlamp, she's like just make sure you get it back to so-and-so.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like fuck.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: So I kept running and then, and, and, and then in the wheels just fell off, cause that's when you um, you started.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: There's a lot more descent and I could not go downhill.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: I could not run.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: I was using my poles to base.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I look like a paraplegic Shit, like just like or like we're not like, or just like not paraplegic.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: That's the wrong as a was it cerebral palsy?
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Cerebral palsy.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it was it was.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I was using the poles to keep myself from falling downhill because my legs would just lock up Jesus.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: And then at one point I was like, okay, if I walk sideways or something, I can maybe loosen my legs.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: And then both my legs cramped and I fell into a bush.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Um and uh dude, hold the thought for one second.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: I got to pee, so bad.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, back to cruel jewel.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Sorry about that.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Um so yeah, dude, so you're walking down, you're coming down with poles and you're not good, you're falling in the bushes.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Not good, yeah, no, just falling all over the place.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: And you know, there was one point.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: It was actually kind of funny.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: There's a few moments like this.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: But I was walking down and I remember reading something I can't remember which snake it was out there, but there was a certain snake that had a tendency to hide, like under ledges of rocks.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: And I remember coming up to a bunch of ledges of rocks and I was like this is my moment where I can get bit by a snake and I have an excuse to quit this damn race.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: And that never happened and you know it's a copperhead was that it might have been yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I and like legit was hope.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: I was like I'm like if I just get bit by a snake right now, I'll be, I can quit.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: You know, because in my head, man, I, I, I, I mean, I remember telling, telling Sarah.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: She said is there anything you want me to tell you?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: You know, um, like if you're in the shit, like is there anything you want me to tell you?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: I said, if I want to quit, just give me my phone and make me call my kids and let me tell them that I quit, because I knew that I was not going to make that fucking phone call.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: And um, I remember coming to the checkpoint at mile 50, when you have to do this little, you know, just a little out and back, and then then you're going, going all the way back to the start.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: And, uh, I told my brother, I looked at him, I said I can't do this.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: And he said you just looked at me and he's like I know, and he's like get going.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm like you know, and I walked out of there and I just start crying dude, I, I, I, I, I.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: There was multiple times during that race.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: It was because it was just it the entire time.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: It was just painful, it was just painful.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Were you a lot of pacer at all, or yeah, yeah, I was.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I got a pacer at mile 50.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: He took me to 76.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Mike was supposed to pace me.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: He bailed.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: He's bailed on literally every pacing duty he's ever had for me.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: He was supposed to, he was supposed to crew me at Tushers and he's like oh dude, I can't my Achilles hurts, I'm on my way, dude.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: I'm on my way.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, uh, I got a pacer, um, and that that was helpful through the night.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Just to you know, just keep me going Cause again, dude, there there was really there was not a lot of running.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: There was some flat running, there's some uphill running, but downhill just couldn't do it.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: The legs just were not there.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: And you know to to this day I'm not a hundred percent sure exactly why it happened.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, consensus is kind of the, you know, between me, and you know my, my, my, my other coach.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: Shout out to Bree.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: I think I went out a little bit too hard, I think it was a little too hot.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: The humidity kicked my ass.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: Georgia.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: Right, it's Georgia yeah.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, but again, absolutely horrible, miserable, that I am so grateful for, and it was, uh, it was it, was it changed it?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: It, it changed me in a way that I think, you know again, it's cliche, you know people always say, you know, like, oh, you know, you find yourself for all this shit.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: But I think that for me, um, because it hurts so bad, like now, you know, I just got the side of my head tattooed and it didn't even hurt.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Let me see.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: You can't see it now.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: I cut all my hair off, but I don't have a mohawk anymore.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I had the whole side of the head tattooed.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Holy shit dude.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, dude, like legitimately, like the pain that I experienced during that, it changed, like it rewired what other things feel like you know and um, and just knowing that you can do it and have the perseverance to just suck it up.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: And and my brother said, he said he's like look, everybody gets one goggins effort, that's it he's like next time I'm pulling your ass, I'm like no dude.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Next time I'm dropping like i'm'm not doing that One Goggins effort.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: You have one Goggins effort, one, just you know, absolutely bone on bone grinding, freaking effort, and that's what that was, man.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: So one day I do plan on going back to cruel jewel and actually running that race proper and not like a total dipshit.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: So that's that's, that's the plan.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: But, yes, much different experience running that than going all out on a 50K and still having your entire day to relax and socialize and have a normal life.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: Whereas the 100 miler, can you know, unless you're David, you know you're looking at 24, you're looking at a full day.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah Right, it's a long day out, dude.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Long day out, man, Dude.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: What are your, what are your goals in the sport Like?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: What do you want to do next?
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: You know that's a good question.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I think that, um, you know that, that it really had to, um, shuffle that a little bit with the uh, you know, cause I could easily go and and rush right back into it.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, but I, you know, I think that taking the time and slowly building back up, um, I think, for me, you know, I wouldn't say that there's any super, super lofty goals with running.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I just want to continue to be involved with the community and still, you know, for me, it's always really been about, you know, pushing myself.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: At the same time, there's that competitive side that's always going to be there, you know.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: So, even if I'm racing for 25th place and you know me and this dude are in the last sprint to get to the finish line, I'm still going to give it my everything, you know, because that's why I'm there.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: It's not to beat him, you know, it's just that, you know it's it's the finish as strong as I can.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: So, you know, there's a lot of races that I want to run, you know, just like everybody else, you know.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: You, just, western, there's hard rock, you know all these ones.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: Um, but just gonna be patient with it, you know, and let it happen.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: Cause you know, I, I think that putting way too much pressure on the whole thing, you know, being that I've.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: You know, I came into the sport when I was, you know, 28, 30, you know, didn't really have a running background, and so there's there's, there's that right, I'm not fooling myself, I'm just here to have fun, meet awesome people, watch the sport grow, you know, and be able to participate it, you know, with you know, things like broken arrow, right, um, cause that's.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: You know, one thing that I love just as much as running is watching these runners and cheering them on and seeing those middle of the Packers, back of the Packers.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: That you know, you being there as like a course Marshall right, makes their day, changes, changes their day.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Right.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: Cause, like you have, that, you can have that effect.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: You could be quiet, you could sit there and just be like, oh, take your turn, or you can walk up to him.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: How's your day going?
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: You know, do you need any nutrition?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: You know, crack a few jokes, whatever, because that's why they're there, that's why we're all here.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: There's a reason why, you know, the money's been coming into the sport.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: It's because of people like that.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: So for me, like seeing those people continue to.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: You know, keep the sport what it should be.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Uh, keep us grounded.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's cool to watch and being a part of that in any way that I can.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: Um, that, I think that would be my longterm goal.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Dude, I love it, I.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: What's the goal with run slot?
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Are you going to grow this thing?
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: You know what man?
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I think so it's funny run sweat, uh, because of the name.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: So anybody that was wondering if shadow banning is real it's real, oh for sure, a hundred percent.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: So the, the, the amount that the, the content gets throttled is pretty crazy.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: Advertising is a nightmare, especially on Google they do not like the word slut, no shit.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: They don't like it man.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: I've appealed it.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: I've explained it.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: You know, at the end of the day I'm not looking at, I'm not here to.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: You know, make a career out of Runslut.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: It's been fun, you know, don't get me wrong, it's cost me a lot more money than it's made me, but I'm having fun doing it.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: And again, I think that you know, starting the brand with what it is and how irreverent, and just look, it's fun, it's fun.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: You get to learn a ton, it's fun and you get to be it's part of the community dude like I love how much like it's and people love it.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Dude, like it's people, people are interested and that's what.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: That's cool, dude.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: Fuck google and all their shit it is what it is.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: I, you know, and I think that you know, just just just having it out there and being able to do it, and and, like I said, there are people there's the big fans right that love it.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Look, that's that's why we're doing it.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: You know, again, it's not going to be a, it's not going to be like your next outdoor equipment company.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: I can almost assure you of that.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: But but it's, it's, it's a, it's a lifestyle man.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's a lifestyle I love.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: It's a lifestyle, I love it, it's fun and yeah, listen, like I said, the people love it, man.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: So you know what I'm glad.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: I want to see you grow and you know what?
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing, I'm glad.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you did it.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you started it yeah, runslutco, go buy your hats and t-shirts.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: The raccoon is my favorite.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: I'd still.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: I love the record what is the record?
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: I probably trash run fast man.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Is that what it is?
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: yeah, dude, I love it oh, these are good, I do they're.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: No, it's again, dude, it's just fun.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I there's not, you know, not going to take it too seriously, um, and you know, not going to expect this thing to be like you know, or you know, dealing with you know, uh, we're gonna have to buy our own warehouse and a factory and all.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Nah, man, it's just, it's just fun right now, and if it grows, you know, great, yeah, absolutely we'll be here for it.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: But you know it's, it's right now, it's just a passion project, and and that's that's how I'm taking it dude, I love it.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: Let's get into some questions now.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Very curious, I mean.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I could probably guess the answer to this, but I'm very curious to see who inspires you man.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: so yeah, this is gonna, this is gonna surprise maybe nobody, um, and it's actually kind of funny because I've uh, at first I struggled with this a little bit, um, but it is my little brother, uh.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say kids too, but uh, no, no, no, no, yeah, look look.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I, the mic, the kids are.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: A whole different thing is is inspires me in is my brother a hundred percent.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: The way he holds himself, the way he, you know he approaches his uh, you know his training, um, shit, just, you know public interface.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: I, I have a lot to learn from him.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Um, dude, my kids, I mean look, I, I, I, I, I can't even begin to tell you, man, I mean they're the only reason why I'm still here, um, best thing that's ever happened to me.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, and inspiration.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: I mean I think that that's, that's, that's, it's it.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, inspiration, I mean I think that that's, that's, that's, it's, it's so much more, it's so much more than that.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: With them, I mean they uh, everything that I do is it's, it's, it's, it's for them.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: And uh, man, yeah, being a parent is sweet.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I mean we could, we could go into another two hours of talking about that alone.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, I would say inspiration, though, my, my brother, for sure he's.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: He continues to, uh, to inspire me every day.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, shit, dude, you're getting sued by the federal government and you're still just chilling, talking you know about, you know, just going to get a in that court case.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: But here's Michelino.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: That's funny, dude.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: What's your walkout song, like what's what's the song that's playing in your head when you're walking out for a race or whatever?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: What's the what's the song that gets you pumped up?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Ooh time for war.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: By LL Cool J.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard that song.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: That's a banger dude.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna put that on after this time for war, all right all right, all right, so we're gonna get into the funny questions.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: Now let's do it all right.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: What's, what's your take on the aliens, bro?
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: Do you believe in aliens?
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: look, I'll put it this way I believe that there's something else out there other than us.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: I, I do, I it's got to.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: It's got to, I think, but I don't know if what we're seeing is aliens.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Man, no, I don't think so.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's, I think it's a mix, I think it's I don't know.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's some government black projects.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: I think there's a good probability that probably um, and then I think it's like something that's been here for a long time.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: It's like interdimensional see, wouldn't that be a trip, yeah I think it's like.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: It's like I don't know man, it's very interesting.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: You see a lot of the like I, I'm on the up and up with this shit.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: I'm like obsessed with the ufo stuff.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: I want to know, dude, and I feel like we're getting really close to like getting some disclosure, whatever that looks like, um, but I hope so.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, would see, you know, with everything that we've learned about quantum computing, everything, that whole interdimensional thing, I'm just saying, man, like that might be something to that.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude the quantum computing blew my like for them to come out and be like yo, like we computed this, but we wouldn't have been able to compute this if it didn't come from other universes like yo.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: That means that there's a multiverse and it's like whoa, we could be having the same conversation in a in a neighboring universe, right?
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: that's fucking mind-blowing, dude, right right, yeah, like in a neighboring universe, I'm the podcast host and you're like, I'm just like so many different possibilities I'm the one with a better beard at that point, you know like I mean.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Look, we've seen.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean look, we've seen Spider-Man, they've already shown us.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: We've seen Terminator.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do we have going on right now?
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: We've got AI.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, look, if this is a simulation, we're missing all the signs.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, for sure, we're missing all the signs and they're just like pay attention.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Do you believe it's a simulation?
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, this is deep.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, look, I think that there are some times when you deal with people that, like when you talk about dealing with, like an NPC, where, like I'm convinced I'm like that person, like that, there's no way A little out there.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, or just like not there, it's just yeah.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: And it's like it happens and then just like some certain coincidences, then, just like some certain coincidences, it I'm not gonna say I believe it, but I'm just gonna say that it's possible.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Thought about it, yeah, yeah, it's definitely possible.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: And I mean, who knows, man, what's your take on bigfoot?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, I, okay, I want bigfoot to be real.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: So bad, I want, I do want bigfoot to be real.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I just don't think.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: I, I just, I just, I just don't.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: I just feel like we would have found it.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: I feel I feel like too man have found him by now.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like too man Right, I'm just really disappointed.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's disappointing because every year that goes by that we don't find him, the likelihood of us finding him alive is not great.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: If he's out there, dude, just show up somewhere, wave your hand.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I get why you don't want to be found, but come on.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: It's like dude yeah, just be a homie.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: Dude on.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: You know it's like dude?
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just be a homie dude, come on.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: It's like, let us believers out, dude.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: There's a guy who was I think was darren thomas, that was telling me like he used to work um up on pike's peak and like some dude dresses up in a gorilla suit and like runs across the road like once a year in front of a car just to like keep, just to keep the lore going.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, no, but that's good.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: That's good, that's good.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: That needs it's probably Darren.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, I wouldn't be surprised it's probably Darren.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny dude.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Of all people that I've asked on the podcast about Bigfoot, he might have been the most interested in the topic Really Like he like really wanted to talk about it, you know what's funny it's so funny with Darren is that I've run into him.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: The last time I ran into him was outside of Mammoth.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: It was just like I've run into him multiple times in the most random freaking places.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like dude, darren, what's up?
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: He's like oh, dude, what's up.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what are you doing here?
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: He's like oh, I'm working out here going for a run after work.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: He's an interesting guy listening to this and I can link them in the show notes.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we get some darren, some sub stack followers.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he wants that, but like his writing is phenomenal.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: Like he just did a great one on black canyon talking about his race.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: But like, dude, he did one on his like his history with pike's peak marathon and ascent was awesome, um, and he's funny like the way he like was he was talking trash about the euros but I was like, oh, this is fucking funny, dude he is, he's low-key, just he's super funny and you know what's funny.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: So I think he talked about this when he was on the pod.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: But he does, um uh, dog paint paints dogs yeah, reno, reno dog paintings on uh on instagram.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if he's still doing it but he did.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: He just posted another one, did he nice?
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: yes, I, I actually have.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: I have a.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: I have a uh painting that darren did he painted your dog.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh, my god yeah, whitney, um he I remember he posted it because it was during covid and he was like trying to make extra cash or something like that, and I think you know he was recovering from um the foot injury that he had.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: So he started painting and I was like dude hell yeah, so like dude how much.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: I can't remember how much it was.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: It didn't really matter at that.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: I was like fuck it, just sends it in the middle.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: It's awesome still hanging on my wall in my office, dude I'm going to get one.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: I'm going to see if he'll do one for the dogs I can get one done.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to have him, commission one for the podcast room Like that would be sweet right.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: Both dogs, yeah, yeah, both dogs.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he could like add you in like a podcast throne.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, safe hole, the safe hole commission.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what a good dude.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Um, what were you talking about, bigfoot?
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: oh, bigfoot all right.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: Last one I'm very curious on on ai dude like what's, what's the take on ai?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: um, I will say this, that chat gbt really helps me put stuff together, uh, for work.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: Um, aside from that man, uh, you know, at first I was kind of like, yeah, you know, this might be something we should be concerned about, and I know it's early.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: But you know, when you give it a simple prompt to do an illustration of a picture which don't get me wrong it's absolutely amazing that it can do it.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: There's some things that it's still is absolutely terrible with, and I don't know how that correlates with world domination, but I think there are a few decades off, so like but I mean again, spider-man, terminator.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: It's been written.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: SkyNet, dude SkyNet.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: It probably will happen.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: I mean I hope it's like SkyNet goes live.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I hope the Terminator really is like Arnold.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: That would be kind of fun.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be fun.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: And then, if you had a question of whether we're in a simulation or not, perfect, nailed it.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it, or like someone like, like John Cena, like someone like a, like a, like a scary large man yes, out of out of like Hollywood or something.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I picked John Cena're sticking with wrestlers.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: We could go with the rock too.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, the rock would be sick dude did you can't believe.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Cena said he was natty.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: I know there's no fucking way, dude.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I mean you look at like and you know good for him yeah, if he is good for him, good for him great physique for being natural.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what the?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: fuck.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll end it on that, dude.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you, it was an honor privilege man.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on to tell your story thanks for having me, man.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, brother what'd you guys think?
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a fun episode.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Uh, lots of good stories there, uh about having to protect michelino, uh in the formative years and just an amazing story of dealing with a dick and addiction and being able to battle back.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: Um, and you know, just getting to have a conversation uh with Frank and help him tell his story uh to the world is not an easy thing.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: So, you know, not an easy thing for him to be able to tell that story.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Uh, I'm sure there's a lot of emotions that get behind that.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: So I really want to applaud Frank for coming on and being open and having that discussion and talking about his background and stuff like that.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just an incredible guy, really interesting character, and I wish him the absolute best of luck in his journey.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: I know we'll be, we'll probably be hanging out a bunch at some point in time, so definitely wish him the best of luck.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, exciting for uh trail running as well, um, as he grows in the space, uh, both with run slot and uh with his own personal running projects.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: So, guys, before you get going, hop on instagram, let's get frank and run slot some followers.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: Uh, first off, give frank a follow.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: You can have.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: You can find him at frank.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: That's f-r-a-n-c.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: Dot sun seri, s-u-n-s-a-n-c.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Dot Sonseri, s-u-n-s-e-r-i Give him a follow on Instagram and you can also find Run Slut and you're going to be able to locate them at runslutco.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: It's interesting Shadow banning actually is a real thing because when I typed in even Run Slut, even though I follow them and they follow me, it's actually kind of hard to find them, which is kind of bizarre.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: So, with that said type in run, that's dot R U N, dot S L U T, dot C?
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: O and you can find them.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, guys, give them some support, especially for those Salt Lake City fans.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Run dot S L U T.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: You can draw the parallels there, but between Salt Lake City and, yeah, I think you guys got that one.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Ha ha ha.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, thanks so much for tuning in.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: I have an amazing episode coming out on Friday with Denali Strable, the multiple time podium finisher on Mount Marathon, as well as podium finisher at the RUT 28k this past year.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Denali is an amazing human.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: I saved this episode for Friday because I am so excited for the audience to hear this one.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Denali is cool people and just it's a great episode.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: It's something I was really excited to record and super stoked for the world to hear that one.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: So guys have a great rest of your week.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: This is a big week of three episodes, so I appreciate you guys tuning in and following along.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thank you.