Latest / Babes, how did you get here / Part 2 I PREFER South African Racism Over British 'Politeness'

Transcript

Part 2 I PREFER South African Racism Over British 'Politeness' · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  Then white side Africans, I said to her, no, I actually feel better around white
• 0:16
  side Africans than I tell you what, because with white side Africans, you know exactly
• 0:20
  where you stand.
• 0:21
  If they are racist, they'll tell you straight to your face.
• 0:23
  If they want to call you racial, so they'll call you it.
• 0:26
  I said, but you guys, I don't know where I stand and I think that's the danger.
• 0:29
  So I said to her, I actually prefer South African racism.
• 0:32
  What does it look like?
• 0:33
  It looks very, very, very, very bad, very dark.
• 0:37
  Children, friends, I had growing up.
• 0:39
  I think they turned out to be prostitutes, drug addicts, alcoholics.
• 0:43
  I try not to judge them, but I always think myself that could have been me.
• 0:46
  But I go so that they can see that I've made something out of myself and that that should
• 0:51
  be an encouragement for them, you know.
• 0:55
  I feel like sometimes the education just isn't there.
• 0:59
  So I'm in the salon and I look at the hairdressers and I think to myself, you know what?
• 1:05
  I can do this.
• 1:06
  Like I can be just as successful as them.
• 1:09
  I can, in actual fact, I feel like I could do better than that.
• 1:12
  Some people dream of living elsewhere.
• 1:15
  Other people actually pack up and do it.
• 1:17
  I am April Jackson, traveling the world, finding interesting people who have moved abroad.
• 1:22
  These social rules that you're explaining, did somebody guide you or did you just have to learn as you go?
• 1:30
  For example, when you're in the UK, so for example, not talking about religion.
• 1:34
  He helped me a lot.
• 1:36
  He said to me, please, whatever you do, do not say that again.
• 1:39
  Because in England, if someone is a Christian, they're like, I'm not saying they wouldn't say that to anyone at work,
• 1:44
  but they said it's not something you talk about at work.
• 1:47
  So I quickly have to learn that.
• 1:49
  So talking about your own belief, I'm not religious.
• 1:52
  So again, in my mind, you talking about your belief to me is not going to offend me because I listen.
• 1:59
  I learn maybe not necessarily learn about faith, but I learn more about you as a colleague, as a friend like whatever.
• 2:05
  I just want to understand how talking about your faith is going to offend someone.
• 2:10
  Because remember, you must also understand England stands as a Christian country,
• 2:13
  but majority of English people are actually not practicing Christianity.
• 2:17
  With in South Africa, we've actually been voted the most religious country on earth.
• 2:21
  Oh, really?
• 2:22
  Yes, I found this out in my research.
• 2:24
  While I was over there, I was like, right, why are these people so offended by me talking about God, Christianity, you know?
• 2:30
  And then I realized it's because they don't go to church and they don't practice.
• 2:33
  We have the most churches for a capital in the world, babe, in Jamaica.
• 2:36
  So maybe that's why I'm used to it, right?
• 2:38
  Yes, even if you're not religious.
• 2:40
  Yeah.
• 2:41
  And fun fact about my husband, he was an atheist when I met him.
• 2:43
  Oh, really?
• 2:44
  He's a Christian now.
• 2:45
  Okay.
• 2:46
  Not because I pushed him and then forced him and I'm not marrying you if you don't become a Christian.
• 2:51
  It was more about he saw Christ through me.
• 2:55
  All my dreams and goals that I've prayed about, I told him, you know, every city,
• 2:59
  and I said, you were part of those dreams, you were part of those goals.
• 3:02
  And I said, I prayed for a good husband and God gave me one.
• 3:05
  So all these things that I've spoken to him about, he said to me, well, I also want to experience that.
• 3:11
  We're dropping new episodes every single week.
• 3:15
  So make sure you subscribe.
• 3:16
  You don't want to miss this, babes.
• 3:18
  And leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to hear out of my next conversation?
• 3:22
  Your support really helps this community grow.
• 3:25
  And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap?
• 3:29
  Babes, send them the podcast.
• 3:31
  One day we went to church and he just went up to the bus without telling me.
• 3:36
  And he became a Christian.
• 3:38
  He said, I want to be one.
• 3:40
  And he's never looked back.
• 3:41
  It's been, I think, almost eight years now that he's been one.
• 3:44
  When you're in the UK, is it hard to find a church that resonates with you just because of these cultural differences?
• 3:51
  Yes, if you go to a very...
• 3:53
  So I'm Pentecostal.
• 3:54
  So there's like a lot of different, you know...
• 3:56
  My grandparents are Pentecostal.
• 3:57
  Yes, so it's more like you really worship God.
• 4:00
  You have a lot of respect for God.
• 4:01
  Where's what I feel like, Anglican?
• 4:03
  It's like more like everything is done by the book.
• 4:06
  Ways with Pentecostal people, we'd be in church for two and a half hours, three hours.
• 4:10
  And it'd be like, wow, the only two and a half hours a day,
• 4:13
  Ways within the churches in England, an hour and a half, max.
• 4:16
  I even once were a pastor, I have a timer before we went up to preach.
• 4:21
  And I said to Tom, I've never seen that.
• 4:23
  Back home, the pastor says to preach until the throats are dry.
• 4:27
  And they'll have a two litre jug of water next to them and they'll just preach.
• 4:31
  So there was a lot of cultural differences.
• 4:34
  I think we worship a lot more year.
• 4:37
  We take our faith very seriously, you know what I mean?
• 4:40
  So like small cultural differences in terms of Christianity.
• 4:45
  Also I feel like the churches in England are more like also very reserved.
• 4:50
  You know what I mean?
• 4:51
  Like people wouldn't like the ends of Africa.
• 4:53
  You'd see someone like pulling to the Holy Spirit.
• 4:56
  Or, you know, I'm not saying people don't do that here, but it's there.
• 5:00
  But it's very, very dramatic year.
• 5:02
  Like are we worship there?
• 5:05
  No?
• 5:06
  So my husband went to his first people of color funeral, like colored funeral,
• 5:11
  which was my sister's one.
• 5:12
  And he asked me, why are they running around the coffin?
• 5:16
  He didn't realize it was dancing.
• 5:18
  He just asked me, you know, why they're running around the coffin?
• 5:21
  He said something cultural, I think.
• 5:23
  I said, no, they are happy that she's going to heaven and running around her coffin.
• 5:28
  And we call it dancing around her coffin.
• 5:30
  It's like they're so happy they wish it was them.
• 5:33
  Okay.
• 5:34
  So that's like why they do it.
• 5:35
  It's not because they don't respect that person, you know what I mean?
• 5:38
  Yes.
• 5:39
  So there's a lot of cultural differences that I have to explain to my husband
• 5:42
  because the church is in England.
• 5:44
  It's very different to the churches in South Africa.
• 5:46
  But it sounds like the church is in England reflected British culture.
• 5:49
  Because I always say that for me, British culture is here.
• 5:52
  When you're happy, your energy is still here.
• 5:55
  When you're sad, your energy is still here.
• 5:57
  Whereas Jamaican culture, we're all over the place, babe.
• 6:00
  Like when we're angry, we're angry.
• 6:02
  Like you know, you feel us, you feel energy.
• 6:04
  And it sounds like it's quite simple.
• 6:06
  Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below.
• 6:11
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• 6:14
  Pick our next destinations, even recommend guests.
• 6:17
  I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
• 6:22
  I'm alone.
• 6:23
  I never knew when a British person was upset with me.
• 6:25
  I couldn't figure them out.
• 6:27
  I never knew.
• 6:28
  And I realized I'm never going to know.
• 6:30
  I'm never ever going to know because I'm married to one.
• 6:32
  And it was hard for me to figure everything about him out.
• 6:35
  And my immediate in-laws, my immediate, like, his immediate family.
• 6:39
  And I thought, if I can't really figure them out how they are.
• 6:43
  I don't have any hope in this country.
• 6:45
  So that's probably also one of the things that pushed me.
• 6:48
  I felt like I could never be myself.
• 6:50
  Because when a South African says something,
• 6:53
  it could come across as like, OK, that was a lot.
• 6:55
  But for us, it's not a lot.
• 6:56
  Like you said, when you're happy, you say it.
• 6:59
  Like when you're angry, you're angry.
• 7:01
  So for them, it was like, wow.
• 7:05
  It was almost like they think you are, I don't know.
• 7:09
  What's the word I'm looking for?
• 7:10
  It will come.
• 7:11
  Like common.
• 7:12
  To be too happy.
• 7:13
  To be too angry.
• 7:14
  It's like, no, I'm expressing myself.
• 7:17
  That's how I express myself.
• 7:18
  It's just a feeling.
• 7:19
  Yes.
• 7:20
  It's got nothing to do with being common.
• 7:21
  It's just how we are.
• 7:22
  But with my husband, he's so reserved.
• 7:24
  Again, you would...
• 7:25
  If someone updates my husband, you would never know.
• 7:28
  He would tell me when we get home.
• 7:30
  If you upset me, it's like my face will tell you,
• 7:32
  like, alright, I'm upset you.
• 7:34
  Did you ever feel that because you couldn't necessarily connect
• 7:40
  with your immediate family in the UK,
• 7:43
  that you were always going to be slightly outside?
• 7:47
  100%.
• 7:48
  Yeah, 100%.
• 7:50
  But I think a lot has happened between me and my inners.
• 7:54
  And I think we had to have a chat about everything.
• 7:56
  And I say to them, like, I've been...
• 7:59
  I've been leaning enough with you guys,
• 8:01
  because I'm always doing things the prettiest way.
• 8:03
  We're going to understand my side of the coin, you know what I mean?
• 8:07
  Yeah.
• 8:08
  And I say to them, this is what's an African culture is like.
• 8:10
  I don't expect you guys to understand it or accept it 100%.
• 8:13
  I expect you guys to come to the party now and then.
• 8:16
  So when I say this, it's not because I'm being rude.
• 8:18
  That's part of my culture.
• 8:19
  It's just like it's part of your culture to not respond to anything.
• 8:23
  It's my culture to respond.
• 8:25
  Do you know what I mean?
• 8:26
  So I'll give you an example for instance, my mother always uses her.
• 8:29
  I don't like confrontation.
• 8:30
  And I said, I appreciate that.
• 8:32
  But if you're just going to leave things,
• 8:34
  it bottles up and it makes you sick inside.
• 8:36
  That's how I was brought up.
• 8:38
  You talk about your feelings, you know?
• 8:40
  Yeah.
• 8:41
  Even though I don't come from the best circumstances,
• 8:44
  I still used to talk to them, my mom had actually heard my feelings.
• 8:46
  You shouldn't say that again to me.
• 8:48
  Where is it for them?
• 8:49
  It's like, right, they do talk about their feelings,
• 8:52
  but look at that enough now.
• 8:53
  Let's carry on now.
• 8:54
  You know what I mean?
• 8:55
  And I was, I could never, ever accept the life like that.
• 8:58
  Always keep talking, walking around on eggshells,
• 9:01
  like I could never, ever love like that for the rest of my life.
• 9:04
  How did it affect your marriage?
• 9:06
  It affected a lot.
• 9:07
  We had to go for marriage counseling.
• 9:09
  Yeah.
• 9:10
  Because I, the marriage counselor said to my husband,
• 9:13
  you two come from different worlds.
• 9:15
  You are very reserved and she's very out there.
• 9:17
  So you guys need to find a way.
• 9:19
  So she would give us homework.
• 9:20
  She would say, right, if your husband says something to you,
• 9:23
  try not to shout at him.
• 9:24
  Try and speak to him the way he speaks to you.
• 9:27
  And she said to him, if anything happens,
• 9:29
  if someone disrespects your wife in front of you,
• 9:32
  try not to just be British about it.
• 9:34
  Try and stand up for her, but more.
• 9:36
  Because the counselor said to him,
• 9:37
  she just wants you to stand up for it.
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  She already knows what it's like here.
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  She just wants you to.
• 9:42
  She wants to feel secure that, okay, I'll be standing up for me.
• 9:45
  Is there a circumstance that you're comfortable sharing
• 9:48
  where you didn't feel like you were being defended or supported?
• 9:51
  By my husband.
• 9:52
  Yes.
• 9:53
  But I think it's all, it's not to make him look bad on my innoes.
• 9:56
  Like I said, it's all about the cultural differences in all of that.
• 9:59
  It's not because they're bad people.
• 10:01
  But I think with my husband,
• 10:02
  when my mother-in-law and I had our differences in the beginning,
• 10:06
  we're cool now.
• 10:07
  She's my bestie.
• 10:08
  I love men.
• 10:09
  But in the beginning, we weren't friends.
• 10:12
  And I think with my husband, he didn't understand.
• 10:15
  She'd choose my size.
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  She'd choose his mom's size.
• 10:17
  Yes, hard.
• 10:18
  She'd make his mom happy.
• 10:19
  That's why we're at the Gulf of America.
• 10:21
  It's counseling.
• 10:22
  The counselor said to him,
• 10:23
  and I said to him from a Christian point of view,
• 10:26
  the Bible says, a man will leave his family.
• 10:29
  And him and his wife will become one.
• 10:31
  Okay.
• 10:32
  And the counselor said that to him, but not in a Christian way.
• 10:35
  But more like a layman's time.
• 10:37
  Yeah.
• 10:38
  And they said to him,
• 10:40
  he can't always choose your mom's size.
• 10:42
  If your wife is wrong, tell her that.
• 10:44
  But tell her when you get home.
• 10:45
  Yes.
• 10:46
  Don't say it in front of your mom.
• 10:47
  Don't give her...
• 10:48
  In a nation.
• 10:49
  Yeah.
• 10:50
  But at the end of the day,
• 10:51
  it wasn't actually my mother-in-law's fault.
• 10:53
  It was the fact that we've never been married before.
• 10:55
  We come from different cultures.
• 10:57
  Maybe if he married a bread,
• 10:58
  it would have been completely different.
• 11:00
  So he only did what he knew.
• 11:01
  And I only did what I knew.
• 11:03
  But I think counseling helped us a lot to understand
• 11:06
  each other's past and all of that, you know.
• 11:09
  Is it cultural here, like culturally accepted,
• 11:12
  to go to counseling from a Jamaica?
• 11:14
  No.
• 11:15
  No.
• 11:16
  Because I actually did sit against it.
• 11:18
  Okay.
• 11:19
  So Tom was actually the one that suggested it.
• 11:22
  Do you think we should go for counseling?
• 11:24
  Because we fight and we can't figure out why.
• 11:27
  And I said, I know why.
• 11:28
  I wanted to stand up for me more.
• 11:30
  And he thought I was wrong.
• 11:33
  I thought he was wrong.
• 11:34
  I said, why don't we let a professional tell us what's really going on?
• 11:39
  Yeah.
• 11:40
  Because I said to him, I don't want to tell me what I already know.
• 11:43
  And he told me what I already knew.
• 11:46
  But I think because my husband is such a reserved person,
• 11:49
  I think maybe he had to get from a professional.
• 11:51
  And maybe from an independent person?
• 11:53
  Yeah.
• 11:54
  I also had to get about my round doings.
• 11:57
  I can't always react in an aggressive way.
• 12:00
  I can't always feel like everyone wants to have a conversation about everything.
• 12:05
  Now I choose to walk away instead of like having that conversation.
• 12:09
  Because I don't think it's worth my time anymore.
• 12:13
  If I knew this person is already made up their mind,
• 12:15
  everything is one sided.
• 12:16
  Because I can tell if I meet someone.
• 12:18
  Yes.
• 12:19
  Everything is one sided.
• 12:20
  I wouldn't even.
• 12:21
  Yeah.
• 12:22
  But if it's someone that I deeply care about, I would do it.
• 12:24
  I think I've learned that so many people want to just be right.
• 12:29
  Right.
• 12:30
  And so if you and I have a discussion and we see things really different.
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:34
  And the aim for you is just to be right.
• 12:36
  I'm willing to let you have it.
• 12:38
  You know what I mean?
• 12:39
  Because I don't need you to agree with me.
• 12:41
  If we're friends and we're agreeing that it's about understanding perspectives
• 12:45
  and it's about understanding how you see things.
• 12:47
  Not necessarily to agree.
• 12:48
  My dad's favorite thing is agree to disagree.
• 12:50
  But just to learn more about the lens through which you're viewing things,
• 12:55
  then I'm more than happy to go through the motions.
• 12:58
  But if you're just like, I just need to be right, be right.
• 13:01
  You know what I mean?
• 13:02
  Because it doesn't make a difference to me.
• 13:04
  It doesn't define, it doesn't define me at all whether you're right or wrong.
• 13:08
  It defines, it actually tells me more about you because you're not willing to learn.
• 13:13
  You're not a teachable person.
• 13:15
  Whereas back in the day, back in the day April.
• 13:18
  Same.
• 13:19
  I just needed to be right.
• 13:20
  Yeah.
• 13:21
  And I also need you to agree that I'm right.
• 13:23
  It wasn't enough to know that I'm right.
• 13:25
  It was, I need you to agree that I'm right.
• 13:28
  And I think that that part has changed which, like you say, means that most times I'm not talking.
• 13:34
  Not because I can't, but just because it's not worth having the conversation.
• 13:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:39
  And it's funny because whenever people you meet couples and they're like,
• 13:42
  oh, we never argue, we never argue.
• 13:43
  And they think it's a good thing to me.
• 13:45
  It's a bad thing.
• 13:46
  It's a red flag to me.
• 13:47
  To me, it's a sign, like, if you ever hear me say that, I've checked out.
• 13:51
  Right?
• 13:52
  So I'm not, I'm not willing to explore the confrontation.
• 13:55
  And the reason I put it in air quotes is because for me, confrontation isn't bad.
• 13:58
  Whereas I know that a lot of people, they hear the word confrontation.
• 14:01
  And it means that it's automatically negative.
• 14:03
  But if I'm willing to kind of go through the argument with you,
• 14:06
  it's because I still see that there's hope in it.
• 14:09
  And it could be friendship.
• 14:10
  I made a couple like that in guns actually.
• 14:12
  They've been married for over 50 years.
• 14:14
  And they've never had an argument.
• 14:16
  Yeah.
• 14:17
  It turned out that the woman was actually a xenophobic racist at the end.
• 14:21
  So I said to Tom, it makes sense.
• 14:24
  It makes sense because she thinks she knows everything.
• 14:26
  And she thinks she's always right about everything.
• 14:28
  I've never argued with my husband.
• 14:29
  It's like, it would have been possible for me to be married for almost eight years.
• 14:33
  I never had an argument with my husband.
• 14:36
  He still annoys me.
• 14:38
  And you know what I mean?
• 14:39
  So I think that is more realistic.
• 14:42
  But to tell a young married couple we've never argued before,
• 14:45
  you're actually telling him that's the standard.
• 14:47
  Yes.
• 14:48
  And it is not the standard.
• 14:49
  We have to go through trials and tribulations,
• 14:51
  whether it was with him, this family.
• 14:53
  The same with my in-laws.
• 14:54
  I look back now and actually see things from their perspective.
• 14:57
  I see things from their cultural perspective.
• 14:59
  And I'm willing to let them have it.
• 15:01
  Right.
• 15:02
  Do you know what I mean?
• 15:03
  And then I think there are times when my in-laws look at what I'm saying.
• 15:07
  They're like, okay, I don't really understand.
• 15:09
  But I get it because it's a graphic and thing to say or to.
• 15:11
  Sure.
• 15:12
  Like I've taught my family that my nephews,
• 15:15
  my mother and my father know when they come to visit.
• 15:18
  They will call you.
• 15:19
  Everyone here will call you auntie local.
• 15:21
  It's not because you look old.
• 15:22
  It's just because you're old.
• 15:23
  Is that how they interpreted it?
• 15:25
  No, no, no.
• 15:26
  I just know some people look at it in that way.
• 15:28
  That is not culturally bound to that.
• 15:30
  Right.
• 15:31
  So I just, like Thomas also had to explain though.
• 15:34
  They'll call you uncle Stephen, auntie Mendy and all of that.
• 15:37
  If my children don't call an adult auntie or uncle,
• 15:40
  it's a problem.
• 15:41
  Yes.
• 15:42
  Because in my style, you speak.
• 15:44
  You and them are not the same size.
• 15:46
  And is that person gives you permission?
• 15:47
  Even then, I've had it.
• 15:48
  I've had it in England where they're like,
• 15:50
  oh, you don't need to.
• 15:51
  I said, yes, you do.
• 15:52
  You do what you want to do in your host.
• 15:54
  That's fine.
• 15:55
  But in my host, my children have to say auntie and uncle.
• 15:58
  But again, that's how I was raised.
• 16:00
  I genuinely thought that these people were my aunt and uncles by the way.
• 16:03
  Right.
• 16:04
  Because when you were growing up calling everybody auntie and uncle,
• 16:06
  I just thought that my...
• 16:07
  And you respect them.
• 16:08
  I thought my family was just that big.
• 16:09
  Yes.
• 16:10
  And you get older that you realize that it's a respect thing,
• 16:12
  not a blood thing.
• 16:13
  Yes. Yes. Yes.
• 16:14
  But the idea of like little people going around,
• 16:16
  even teachers in the UK when they're calling their teacher by the first name,
• 16:20
  I was appalled because you have to say miss so and so.
• 16:24
  You can't just say, Lucy, who's Lucy?
• 16:27
  But again, like you say, that is very, very cultural.
• 16:31
  And what's it like?
• 16:32
  But I also think those things seem small.
• 16:34
  I think to people who don't do it.
• 16:36
  But when you have that experience, it's not just about the title, right?
• 16:39
  Because you then see the remnants of lack of disrespect within the society.
• 16:44
  Yes.
• 16:45
  That become a bigger issue than just names, right?
• 16:47
  Yes.
• 16:48
  It becomes, I remember I was driving once to a meeting.
• 16:50
  And I saw an elderly man on the floor on the sidewalk.
• 16:54
  And I'm not gonna lie, I was late.
• 16:56
  So my first thought was, Lord God, I can't stop.
• 16:59
  And my second thought was April.
• 17:00
  You could never not stop, right?
• 17:02
  Sure.
• 17:03
  And so I pulled over and I went and checked on the man.
• 17:06
  The man had a blood coming from his eye socket.
• 17:09
  And he was elderly and had tripped on the pavement.
• 17:11
  I guarantee you that I was not the first person to drive on this particular road.
• 17:15
  It was a busy enough road that somebody else would have been there.
• 17:18
  I asked him to call the ambulance to wait with him.
• 17:21
  He was a very British old gentleman.
• 17:23
  He said, no, no, let's not waste the ambulance this time.
• 17:26
  I'm like, there is blood leaking from your face.
• 17:28
  The least we can do, I walk him to his house.
• 17:32
  We get home, get the ice pad, all those things.
• 17:34
  And I take his number.
• 17:36
  Because I live around the corner.
• 17:37
  I'm like, I'm gonna check on you later.
• 17:38
  And just make sure you're all good.
• 17:39
  I couldn't get through in the evening.
• 17:40
  I think, Lord, God, man did.
• 17:42
  I'm not thinking the worst of the worst dramatic thing.
• 17:44
  I'm like, why can't I get whole of this man?
• 17:46
  We look out for each other's people.
• 17:48
  Oh, my gosh.
• 17:49
  Because I'm a young age.
• 17:50
  Then you have to.
• 17:51
  I'm late.
• 17:52
  I know I'm late today.
• 17:53
  Why?
• 17:54
  I was 10 minutes late.
• 17:55
  The person wasn't dead or anything.
• 17:56
  But I saw someone waiting for public transport as I was coming to you.
• 18:00
  And I know he works at this supermarket.
• 18:04
  I know him because I grew up going to the supermarket.
• 18:06
  I know he's waiting for taxi to go to work.
• 18:08
  Yes.
• 18:09
  And he was standing there.
• 18:10
  It looks so defeated because no taxes were coming.
• 18:12
  It's like waiting for a bus.
• 18:13
  Right.
• 18:14
  But we'll use more taxis.
• 18:15
  Right.
• 18:16
  And I just reverse back.
• 18:17
  I said, frickin' hair.
• 18:18
  I'm going to be late for my interview.
• 18:20
  But I can't let him stand there.
• 18:22
  Yeah.
• 18:23
  Waiting for a taxi.
• 18:24
  So I reverse back and I asked him where he going.
• 18:26
  He said, you know what?
• 18:27
  I was actually going to town.
• 18:28
  But I was going to take a taxi to the station.
• 18:30
  And then from there, I was going to catch a train to Cape Town.
• 18:32
  Right.
• 18:33
  Into the city center.
• 18:34
  I said, get in.
• 18:35
  I'm going to stop anyway.
• 18:36
  No.
• 18:37
  So get in.
• 18:38
  And there was a lady and I said, where are you going?
• 18:39
  And she said, I'm going to retreat, which is on my way actually.
• 18:42
  Sure.
• 18:43
  And I dropped her where she had to be.
• 18:44
  And I thought to myself, like, because I know what it's like to not have a car.
• 18:48
  It's hard.
• 18:49
  You wait for taxi.
• 18:50
  Wait for a bus.
• 18:51
  You wait for a train.
• 18:52
  Sometimes public transport disappoints you.
• 18:54
  But I promise you now, someone else will have driven right past them.
• 18:57
  It's like, that's my business.
• 18:58
  I want to be in time for my interview.
• 19:00
  But I would rather be late for my interview and do the right thing.
• 19:03
  Yeah.
• 19:04
  So I get how you felt.
• 19:05
  I know it's like the same.
• 19:06
  No.
• 19:07
  But it just reminds me of that.
• 19:08
  It's like feeling.
• 19:09
  Yes, that feeling of, but I can't.
• 19:11
  I can't just leave him.
• 19:12
  And the craziest thing was he had broken his eye socket.
• 19:14
  Shame.
• 19:15
  He had broken his eye socket on the pavement.
• 19:18
  And I was just like reflecting.
• 19:21
  It was one of those moments of, can I really live in a country
• 19:24
  where an elderly man is left on the pavement with a broken eye socket.
• 19:28
  And everybody's just going to keep driving, right?
• 19:31
  Because don't get me wrong, my country has issues.
• 19:33
  However, it just wouldn't happen.
• 19:35
  The first time I heard of people dying in their homes and not being found
• 19:40
  for days and weeks was England.
• 19:43
  And it was shocking to me.
• 19:44
  It was honestly shocking because people are describing that they noticed flies.
• 19:48
  The neighbor noticed flies.
• 19:50
  And that's how they realized.
• 19:51
  And again, somebody is going to notice.
• 19:55
  Whether it's like you used to wave to the peoperman, you used to wave to the gardener.
• 19:59
  Like somebody is going to notice that you are no longer there.
• 20:02
  And this is what Tom and myself were talking about.
• 20:04
  They said, because Tom loves his country.
• 20:06
  He's very proud to be British.
• 20:07
  But he's also very proud to live in South Africa.
• 20:09
  And he said, from his point of view, what the world has done,
• 20:13
  they've painted the speech about South Africa and it's just bad.
• 20:16
  And he said, then that's all they focus on.
• 20:18
  They don't see what I've just done.
• 20:20
  They don't think a South African can do what I've just done.
• 20:23
  They don't think a Jamaican can do what you've done.
• 20:25
  So for them, it's like, well, if I'm Jamaican, if I'm a third world country,
• 20:29
  you must be all bad.
• 20:31
  We'll teach you real values here in England.
• 20:33
  And it's like, I actually admired my values more when I loved over there.
• 20:37
  And I don't think a lot of people actually understand what I'm trying to say when I say that.
• 20:41
  I realize I'm so grateful to be South African.
• 20:44
  I actually said to God one day, thank you for making me South African
• 20:47
  because of my values and the way I respect my elders.
• 20:50
  And it's just the way you look at life, really.
• 20:53
  So Tom said, the reason why people think you crazy, babe,
• 20:56
  is because they've only been told good things about England.
• 20:59
  He said, my country is not perfect.
• 21:01
  And then I'm willing to say that.
• 21:03
  And I think that's the difference between someone being open-minded like Tom.
• 21:07
  Still being proud to be British, but not ignoring the faults of his country.
• 21:12
  Same with me.
• 21:13
  But I bet you a British person knows about the crime, yeah.
• 21:16
  Very true.
• 21:17
  I bet you a American knows about the crime, yeah.
• 21:19
  But do you know about the gun violence in America and all these things?
• 21:22
  It's just how we are taught.
• 21:24
  And I think we are groomed as third world countries to look at first world countries
• 21:27
  and almost like you should be grateful to be there.
• 21:30
  You could have been in South Africa.
• 21:31
  You could have been in Jamaica.
• 21:32
  That's country took you in.
• 21:34
  I'm like, I actually trained young British in South Africa.
• 21:37
  You could have been in Jamaica.
• 21:38
  That's country took you in.
• 21:39
  I'm like, I actually trained young British hairdresses to be successful hairdresses.
• 21:44
  And I never talk about that.
• 21:46
  There's a lot of things that immigrants or experts actually contribute towards.
• 21:50
  The economy is never talked about.
• 21:52
  You just year for the rest of your life.
• 21:54
  You should be grateful to be a don't complain.
• 21:56
  Don't say it's racist.
• 21:57
  Don't say it's xenophobic.
• 21:58
  Don't say any of these things because you're not from here.
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  Do you know what I mean?
• 22:03
  100%.
• 22:04
  We took you in.
• 22:05
  We gave you a shot at life.
• 22:07
  Did you ever feel that being a hairdresser was down upon?
• 22:11
  100%.
• 22:12
  100%.
• 22:13
  And that's why I worked so hard to be self-employed.
• 22:16
  And I worked so hard.
• 22:17
  I'm an online prison showing people the magic that I create.
• 22:21
  Because I feel like it is magic because not a lot of people can do that.
• 22:24
  I can give you the same tools, April.
• 22:26
  And you wouldn't be able to do that.
• 22:28
  I tell you.
• 22:29
  I couldn't.
• 22:30
  You wouldn't even know what those chemicals mean.
• 22:31
  How do all this is?
• 22:32
  It's a struggle to get my hair in one.
• 22:34
  Yes.
• 22:35
  Yes.
• 22:36
  And I don't think people actually realize to even go up to a senior level.
• 22:40
  You have to go to college for three years.
• 22:42
  And there's a lot of theory involved.
• 22:43
  That's like having a degree.
• 22:45
  There's theory involved.
• 22:46
  There's a lot involved.
• 22:47
  It took me a long time to understand color.
• 22:49
  The things that people see me doing very fast and very quick.
• 22:52
  And I know my job now is because it took me 12 years to get there.
• 22:55
  But not because everything is an easy option.
• 22:57
  People think it's for dumb people.
• 22:59
  Oh, because you couldn't get into university.
• 23:01
  That's why I think I was born to do this.
• 23:04
  I think here, hairdressing is like my love letter to the world.
• 23:09
  It saved me from poverty.
• 23:11
  And I think people think they can't get out of poverty because of a trade.
• 23:15
  Right.
• 23:16
  Plomas make a lot of money.
• 23:17
  Yeah.
• 23:18
  In England, I was shocked at Hamas in charge.
• 23:19
  You answered Africa as well.
• 23:20
  I said to my dad, man, what am I doing with my life?
• 23:25
  Like bricklayers are raking in money and like you say, you know, people look down.
• 23:30
  But I tell people all the time, if your pipe is broken, you do not want a surgeon.
• 23:34
  Who are you going to call?
• 23:35
  When do you see a surgeon?
• 23:36
  Be honest.
• 23:37
  Yeah.
• 23:38
  When do you see a doctor?
• 23:39
  Yeah.
• 23:40
  When do you see a lawyer?
• 23:41
  Only when you're in trouble.
• 23:43
  But to make you feel good, you'll run to your beautician.
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:47
  You'll run to your hairdresser.
• 23:48
  We, all communities together, we make people feel good about themselves.
• 23:51
  So I will not be told that my job doesn't matter.
• 23:53
  I will not be told, oh, you're just a super hairdresser.
• 23:56
  I'm showing people that I can make good money from this because I've worked hard to get to this point.
• 24:02
  So it's not just about, that's actually the biggest challenge I felt like in my marriage in terms of respect for me.
• 24:08
  Okay.
• 24:09
  Is that people are thinking, oh, you're married to this?
• 24:11
  Um, academic, he speaks while he's got a posh accent.
• 24:14
  He comes from a middle class family, you know, he's had it all.
• 24:17
  And you know, it helps that he's white.
• 24:19
  So he takes all the boxes, academic white from the UK, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:24
  It takes his nicest gentleman.
• 24:26
  And then there's me, just a hairdresser, brown, from South Africa.
• 24:32
  Like all the takes that people don't really respect, you know.
• 24:35
  And then what a lot of people don't actually know is that I make a lot more money than him.
• 24:40
  In my, in my profession, but that's because I am now at the top of my getting.
• 24:46
  But people would never think that if they, if they looked at what he did,
• 24:51
  what he does for working the fact that he's an academic and I'm not right.
• 24:55
  You know, I mean, I'm self-employed, babes.
• 24:57
  I can, I can pick and choose my clients whenever I want.
• 25:00
  I'm here today because I could take the day off and not schedule clients for this day.
• 25:04
  If I worked for someone, I couldn't be here.
• 25:06
  How do I explain to my boss that I'm going to, I want to take off because I want to be in an interview.
• 25:12
  So the privileges that I have of being self-employed is far, far greater than someone thinking I'm an academic and I'm clever.
• 25:17
  I'm clever in other ways. I'm street smart.
• 25:19
  I'm, like I said, I'm self-employed.
• 25:22
  Not a lot of academic people actually get to be self-employed because you're working for someone for the rest of your life.
• 25:27
  What are the sacrifices that you have to make to be self-employed?
• 25:31
  You have to be able to be criticized and humiliated.
• 25:34
  It's part of the, it's part of the journey.
• 25:36
  It's part of the journey and you have to work really long hours,
• 25:39
  put a lot of money into education because you have to, remember if you self-employed,
• 25:43
  you have to be the best of the best.
• 25:46
  Why should they come to an independent agency if they can go to the fence, see big ones in the malls?
• 25:51
  I mean, you've seen it while you're here.
• 25:53
  They are some really, really nice ones where all the celebrities go.
• 25:55
  And funny enough, what people don't understand that a lot of those clients are now my clients.
• 26:00
  Because I also built an online presence where I take people through the journey of how I do it.
• 26:05
  I give them a lot of education.
• 26:07
  And that is where I actually feel like I'm winning with the education,
• 26:10
  because a lot of my new clients and old clients say,
• 26:13
  you give us so much information, so much knowledge, so much education
• 26:17
  that I've never felt from any of them.
• 26:19
  And I'm not down talking big salons.
• 26:21
  I'm talking about me personally and what they've said to me, right?
• 26:25
  So those are the sacrifices you have to be able to give more.
• 26:28
  Beyond top of your game, if there's a new color technique,
• 26:31
  I'm going to go and go and do the course breaks.
• 26:33
  Even if it takes you two weeks and I cost you 30 grand,
• 26:35
  you're going to make that 30 grand back,
• 26:37
  but you will never ever be able to tell the client no.
• 26:39
  Right.
• 26:40
  Do you know what I mean?
• 26:41
  I never want to say no.
• 26:42
  I do all-here types.
• 26:43
  I specialize in all-here types.
• 26:44
  Any nationality, whatever you are, you welcome to sit in my chair.
• 26:48
  So it's the sacrifices that I feel like that comes with being self-employed
• 26:52
  if you always have to be on top of your game.
• 26:54
  Right. Yeah.
• 26:55
  And when you went to England, do you feel that people had confidence
• 26:59
  that you could do all-here types?
• 27:01
  I didn't have confidence in me.
• 27:02
  I had to work extra hard.
• 27:03
  And I think that's why I'm so good at my job.
• 27:05
  Because England made me realize that people of color will always be second-guest.
• 27:10
  Like I would work in some of the best salons in England,
• 27:14
  and I'm very grateful for that.
• 27:15
  But the racism was very, very clear.
• 27:17
  The xenophobia was very, very clear.
• 27:19
  Like from clients or from companies?
• 27:21
  Yes, but not to your face.
• 27:22
  Like I said, the face subtle racism is very subtle xenophobia.
• 27:25
  Like the incompetence they thought you have as someone who's from
• 27:30
  South Africa or of color, they would say things similar.
• 27:34
  So have you done hairdressing in South Africa as well?
• 27:36
  How long have you been doing this for?
• 27:38
  Are you quite good with color?
• 27:40
  That's their way of, which colors did you go to?
• 27:42
  Right.
• 27:43
  I worked with a Canadian hairdresser in Guernsey.
• 27:46
  I never once heard the clients ask any of these questions.
• 27:49
  Right.
• 27:50
  But they would ask the South African and the brown person that.
• 27:52
  Right.
• 27:53
  So I could clear to learn, oh, oh, I have to work harder.
• 27:57
  Oh, crap, I can't be too relaxed.
• 27:59
  And so I just became better and better at my job.
• 28:01
  I'm like my highlights need to look better than everyone's highlights.
• 28:04
  Because people are already thinking I don't know how to do it.
• 28:07
  My cuts need to be perfect.
• 28:08
  And that's where my fiction, I'm from honest.
• 28:11
  I don't want to lie to your audience.
• 28:14
  I didn't become like this because I really wanted to in the beginning.
• 28:17
  I was just comfortable being a good hairdresser.
• 28:19
  But then to be like the best, it comes from that.
• 28:22
  It comes from having to prove.
• 28:24
  Having to prove myself to people in the UK that you can do this.
• 28:28
  And in these salons, are you having to find your own clients?
• 28:32
  Or do people come to the salon and then they go off to the hairdresser?
• 28:35
  So if you work for someone, it's like the clients are already there.
• 28:39
  Okay.
• 28:40
  You'll get new clients and they'll give it to you.
• 28:41
  You get commission in a basic.
• 28:42
  Right.
• 28:43
  Yeah.
• 28:44
  And then I realized I became so popular because I was overcompensating with my work.
• 28:48
  I could now go south employed.
• 28:49
  Okay.
• 28:50
  So you started out with the commission and then you were ready to branch out by yourself?
• 28:55
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  And so two days a week, I would probably work in a salon just for that safety net.
• 28:59
  Yes.
• 29:00
  And then for the rest of the week, I'd work for myself.
• 29:02
  Okay.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:04
  And it worked.
• 29:05
  I was popular at an online presence as well, which helped me a lot.
• 29:08
  You know.
• 29:09
  Is that how you started getting into social media?
• 29:11
  No.
• 29:12
  I've been on social media for a long time.
• 29:14
  But I think how my client actually grew, how my client told me,
• 29:17
  my followers grew a lot since I started talking about my experiences in the UK,
• 29:22
  why I moved back here and all of that.
• 29:24
  Yeah.
• 29:25
  When you make the move from Gernsey to Manchester?
• 29:27
  Yes.
• 29:28
  What is the catalyst for that move?
• 29:30
  So my husband, a lot of people don't know this, but Tom actually dropped out of university for me.
• 29:35
  Okay.
• 29:36
  So the year I left South Africa to move to Gernsey,
• 29:41
  was for us to start the race of our lives together and England wasn't part of that.
• 29:45
  Right.
• 29:46
  He couldn't be a husband and be studying in England because Gernsey was our only hope
• 29:51
  because we didn't really have a lot of money and my mother-in-law actually helped us a lot.
• 29:56
  So he had to drop out of university, go and work.
• 30:00
  Right.
• 30:01
  And then I actually didn't like it.
• 30:04
  Did you feel guilty?
• 30:05
  I felt very guilty because it's like a father that was throwing his feature away.
• 30:09
  And I told him, one day you'll go back, you'll go back.
• 30:14
  And then I think it just stopped there.
• 30:17
  And I think that's where the conflict started with his side of the family
• 30:21
  and maybe because it was like, right, my son is dropping out of university.
• 30:24
  For you?
• 30:25
  For someone that we don't really see as somebody.
• 30:29
  Do you know what I mean?
• 30:30
  Like what's the point?
• 30:31
  Couldn't you just leave in South Africa and then go to university and finally go from there?
• 30:35
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 30:36
  But I think we were dead to prove the world wrong.
• 30:39
  And Gernsey lost two years.
• 30:41
  We made sure we saved up a lot of money before we left for England.
• 30:44
  Okay.
• 30:45
  Because I felt very trapped in Gernsey because it's such a small island.
• 30:48
  And there's a lot of satellites in this world.
• 30:51
  Because I don't think people are used to people of Canada.
• 30:54
  So in Gernsey, it is so, so different, very expensive.
• 31:00
  But then we decided that 2019 was a 2019 or 2020.
• 31:05
  Was the year he was finally going to go to uni?
• 31:08
  In England.
• 31:09
  Yeah.
• 31:10
  Because we felt a little bit more settled, you know.
• 31:12
  Do you think that the weight that you were experiencing because he had dropped out was also making it difficult to kind of find your rhythm in Gernsey?
• 31:22
  Yes.
• 31:23
  Yes.
• 31:24
  And if I'm not looking back now, maybe I didn't give it a shot because of that way.
• 31:30
  Yeah.
• 31:31
  That's why I left because I like all this trauma.
• 31:33
  My husband dropping out of university.
• 31:35
  He may have to tell his childhood friends that I remember one of his childhood friends walk in and he was like,
• 31:41
  I graduated yesterday, you know, with my, I'm a journalist now.
• 31:45
  And I could just tell my mother no was defeated.
• 31:47
  I could just, like, it's like my poor son's works just a normal job for this girl.
• 31:53
  But if I was a mother, thinking back now because I've grown up a lot since then back then,
• 31:58
  I was like, how dare she feel like that.
• 32:01
  And now I look back and I think if I was a mother, I probably wouldn't want my son to drop out as well.
• 32:06
  But I think people didn't understand that we, we also did sit in making it work and proving people around.
• 32:12
  We were going to go today.
• 32:13
  He's got two university qualifications.
• 32:15
  You know what I mean?
• 32:16
  So he did go back in the end and he actually, we have proven people wrong.
• 32:21
  That what did sit against it.
• 32:23
  But I appreciate the circumstances didn't allow them to believe in us.
• 32:27
  I appreciate that now.
• 32:28
  And how early on are you in this relationship still when he drops out, like, how long have you been together?
• 32:34
  So at this point, it was when I just moved back.
• 32:37
  So two years in?
• 32:39
  So you finished one year, you need.
• 32:41
  Okay.
• 32:42
  And then into your second year, I...
• 32:44
  Come over.
• 32:45
  Okay.
• 32:46
  I don't think a lot of...
• 32:47
  So the relationship is still relatively new from the parents perspective.
• 32:51
  From the parents perspective.
• 32:52
  And I think that's why they were so dated against it and that's why they didn't get along in the beginning.
• 32:56
  And I don't want to be harsh by saying it was just because they were bad people.
• 33:01
  I don't think so.
• 33:02
  I think they gave him this shot at life, like a good future, a good life, a good childhood,
• 33:08
  and dropping out of university wasn't on the bingo call to him.
• 33:12
  You know what I mean?
• 33:13
  And I see that now.
• 33:15
  I see it now.
• 33:16
  But I do see the part also where they acknowledge that later on in life.
• 33:21
  Was there any part in the beginning that you second-guest your relationship?
• 33:26
  Yeah, I just thought to myself, I'm ruining this guy's life.
• 33:30
  Why am I here?
• 33:31
  No one likes me.
• 33:32
  They just see me as a girl who left university for her.
• 33:37
  Like why her?
• 33:38
  Why couldn't you just find someone here?
• 33:40
  Do you know what I mean?
• 33:41
  So yeah, like mentally it messed me up.
• 33:45
  And that's the, also, we're not antidepressants.
• 33:47
  Okay.
• 33:48
  It was a lot for me to handle.
• 33:50
  Yeah.
• 33:51
  The first year of being in Guernsey.
• 33:52
  Yeah.
• 33:53
  Being abroad, no family, no.
• 33:54
  I suddenly realized I didn't have any family, didn't have any.
• 33:57
  Because I remember this animosity with them dropping out in Los.
• 34:01
  It's a lot.
• 34:02
  I miss my family.
• 34:03
  I miss my friends.
• 34:04
  I miss my culture.
• 34:05
  I miss the sun.
• 34:06
  There's a lot that just went into it.
• 34:08
  And I think I just stopped wanting to get out of bed.
• 34:11
  Can you talk to me a little bit more about first, how is your self-awareness?
• 34:17
  Right?
• 34:18
  Because from personal experience, I've been on antidepressants before.
• 34:21
  And it took me a very long time to get to a stage where I was comfortable going to a psychiatrist,
• 34:29
  comfortable even acknowledging that there was something wrong.
• 34:32
  And I say wrong because my perception of that period is very different.
• 34:36
  But at the time, I felt that it was wrong.
• 34:39
  Right?
• 34:40
  I didn't have the same open-minded approach now in the sense that if you need her to go fix the knee.
• 34:46
  And in my mind, no, if you have a particular mental health issue, it's the same.
• 34:50
  It's just not a physical tour or whatever.
• 34:52
  But I'm just wondering for your personal journey, how was it acknowledging that you needed
• 34:58
  some sort of help?
• 35:00
  I mean, it started when I didn't want to wake up.
• 35:04
  Not wake up is not wake up.
• 35:06
  Like, I could be in a restaurant or at the beach or whatever.
• 35:09
  And all I would think about was going to bed.
• 35:12
  I just always felt tired and depressed and all of that.
• 35:15
  And then Tom was like, no, this is not you.
• 35:17
  This is not the girl I fell in love with.
• 35:18
  Let me take you to the doctor and hear what they say.
• 35:20
  Okay.
• 35:21
  And I went, I didn't fight against it.
• 35:22
  I went and it actually turned out that I've got thyroid.
• 35:25
  Okay.
• 35:26
  Underactive thyroid.
• 35:28
  And then he said, on top of it, you've got anxiety.
• 35:30
  Because he said, no matter what you say, you're going to trauma at the moment.
• 35:34
  And that's adding, adding to it.
• 35:36
  So they say, what is the underactive thyroid?
• 35:38
  How does that affect you?
• 35:40
  It just means you're tired all the time.
• 35:42
  All the time.
• 35:43
  That's why I always wanted to sleep.
• 35:44
  Because I would sit in a fancy restaurant having nice food.
• 35:46
  And I would just think, I can't wait to finish this food.
• 35:48
  That's when I go home and sleep.
• 35:49
  Right.
• 35:50
  And Tom said, that's weird.
• 35:52
  Because it never used to be me.
• 35:53
  I would make videos of everything.
• 35:55
  And I didn't want to do that.
• 35:57
  I was just like, right, let's go home now.
• 35:59
  Food was really nice.
• 36:00
  But can we go home?
• 36:01
  I want to sleep.
• 36:02
  Right.
• 36:03
  So, yeah, that's when I realized I had to sleep.
• 36:05
  And Tom said, that's weird.
• 36:07
  Because it never used to be me.
• 36:09
  I would make videos of everything.
• 36:11
  So that's when I realized I actually had anxiety.
• 36:14
  I couldn't sleep properly and stuff like that.
• 36:16
  Because of everything that was going.
• 36:17
  All the voices that was going around and all of that.
• 36:20
  I just knew I was very hated.
• 36:23
  Did you have any friends that you could kind of tie you down?
• 36:26
  Remember, this is my first year and you remember,
• 36:28
  it's hard to make friends in a foreign country.
• 36:30
  So the loneliness also creeped in and all of that.
• 36:34
  Did the antidepressants help?
• 36:37
  A little bit.
• 36:38
  A little bit.
• 36:39
  I mean, you know, when you tell yourself something is going to help,
• 36:42
  it will help.
• 36:43
  So it did help me get out of bed more.
• 36:45
  Suddenly, I didn't think of sleeping anymore and all of that.
• 36:48
  But then it's when we lived guns,
• 36:50
  and when it actually felt like I didn't need it anymore.
• 36:52
  Okay.
• 36:53
  Because I just felt like a lot has happened there.
• 36:55
  And then Manchester was like a new environment.
• 36:58
  Yes.
• 36:59
  And he was going to university now.
• 37:01
  My career was going well.
• 37:02
  But my social media presence was like, you know what I mean?
• 37:06
  I mean, on the rise and all of that.
• 37:08
  And then COVID happened.
• 37:09
  Okay.
• 37:10
  This was actually when COVID happened.
• 37:12
  And boom, I wasn't allowed to work.
• 37:17
  Then Tom was, Tom studied online, of course.
• 37:20
  And I wasn't allowed to work.
• 37:22
  And now I'm like the one thing that gave me purpose
• 37:24
  is not being taken away from me.
• 37:26
  And Tom actually worked in a pharmacy as a pharmacist assistant
• 37:30
  while he was at university.
• 37:32
  And what's strange is that because he was at university,
• 37:36
  he's money was like keeping us afloat.
• 37:39
  You know what I mean?
• 37:41
  He's a university student and I felt so defeated as well.
• 37:44
  Do you feel that you define yourself
• 37:47
  by how much money you're making?
• 37:49
  No, definitely not.
• 37:50
  Okay.
• 37:51
  My mental health is far more important now.
• 37:53
  You can take all of what I have away from me.
• 37:55
  Just leave me with good mental health.
• 37:57
  And I can work myself up again.
• 37:59
  Did you feel that during COVID?
• 38:01
  Do you think COVID was a different story?
• 38:03
  Because you weren't allowed out.
• 38:05
  I didn't have a job.
• 38:06
  There was no money coming in.
• 38:07
  So it wasn't just like you locked up in stuff.
• 38:10
  I didn't have financial freedom.
• 38:12
  You know what I mean?
• 38:13
  So there was only one salary coming in.
• 38:15
  And it's just like, oh, enough to pay the bills, food and all of that.
• 38:18
  But it was like, if I were, maybe we could have taken that trip
• 38:22
  to Italy for whatever the case may be.
• 38:24
  So now you don't have that freedom.
• 38:26
  And you know New Yorker, you must have something to look forward to.
• 38:28
  You must have a trip to look forward to what else it eats you up.
• 38:31
  Right.
• 38:32
  So we couldn't even book anything.
• 38:34
  So that's like, I know for people it was like, oh, that's first world problems.
• 38:37
  I'm like, no, it's not a problem because I'm still thinking about mental health.
• 38:40
  Yeah.
• 38:41
  People think because you don't have third world problems anymore.
• 38:44
  You're not allowed to have problems.
• 38:46
  Right.
• 38:47
  Do you know what I mean?
• 38:48
  It's like, how dare April talks about her iPhone 16 giving up problems.
• 38:51
  Like, yeah, I'm a content creator, so I need a good phone.
• 38:54
  Like, people don't really see into first world problems public.
• 38:57
  Because they so sit dead set about their third world problems.
• 39:00
  Yeah.
• 39:01
  It's like, we're not allowed to, to lash out or have problems, you know what I mean.
• 39:05
  So that for me was like a big, a big deal breaker, if I'm honest.
• 39:10
  How is life in Manchester different from Guernsey?
• 39:13
  In Manchester, it's far more diverse.
• 39:15
  Okay.
• 39:16
  Yes, there's still subtle racism.
• 39:18
  Yes, there's still xenophobia in there.
• 39:20
  But in general, I've had a, I can breathe again.
• 39:22
  Oh, there's somebody looks like me.
• 39:24
  Oh, there's somebody looks like me.
• 39:25
  Guernsey, I could count them on my one hand.
• 39:27
  Right.
• 39:28
  Because Guernsey is 90 something percent white.
• 39:30
  Okay.
• 39:31
  So it's like still in the demographic is 60,000 plus.
• 39:33
  Okay.
• 39:34
  So you can imagine like, I'm not saying people are not used to people of colour.
• 39:38
  But I think it's also the stairs you get sometimes or, you know, people thinking,
• 39:43
  Oh, it's just from Africa.
• 39:45
  It's like people are educated.
• 39:47
  So it limits the way of, like you said, people don't want to be educated.
• 39:51
  They feel that they feel more comfortable knowing that you are poor.
• 39:54
  But if you tell them, oh, maybe like you, you come from money or, oh, no, I'm actually fine.
• 39:58
  You know, before I left, you actually did love in the suburbs.
• 40:00
  No, we do have Wi-Fi.
• 40:01
  No, we do have this.
• 40:02
  It's like, no, it's like, right, I usually think I'm better than people from South Africa.
• 40:06
  But now you're telling me we have the same things.
• 40:08
  So it acts, you can see the frustration that they feel like they, like they feel like an idiot
• 40:14
  for thinking those things.
• 40:15
  Now you're the problem again because you come across as aggressors.
• 40:19
  Because you're trying to help them understand.
• 40:22
  We have everything.
• 40:23
  We also have, we also have an entertainment industry.
• 40:26
  We also have singers, dancers with all those things.
• 40:29
  You just don't know about it.
• 40:30
  Your views about Africa was at Africa.
• 40:32
  It's so limited based on a BBC documentary.
• 40:34
  Because I've seen those documentaries in this rubbish.
• 40:37
  They don't tell you the truth.
• 40:38
  Because I think they want you to be grateful to be British and be proud.
• 40:42
  And then, you know, you could have been from Africa, you know.
• 40:45
  So I think when you find it break that stereotype,
• 40:48
  and you actually tell them, you know, you can actually research this.
• 40:51
  It's really not that deep.
• 40:52
  Research it.
• 40:53
  And then it's like, you can feel the tension.
• 40:56
  Because you're threatening their position, right?
• 40:59
  Yes, you're not there yet.
• 41:00
  We're now the same.
• 41:01
  Yeah.
• 41:02
  And I think that's how South Africa is now in general.
• 41:06
  Like you see a lot of people that use the haves.
• 41:08
  And then the haves, not the haves, not on now with the haves.
• 41:11
  And so the haves is like, right, we feel threatened.
• 41:14
  So there's a genocide now against white celebrities.
• 41:16
  All these things are being said now because people are scared that
• 41:21
  after everything they've done to people of color in this world,
• 41:24
  we still, so we rise.
• 41:26
  And I think that's the threat, the real one.
• 41:29
  How has your history in South Africa with apartheid,
• 41:33
  how has that influenced life known?
• 41:36
  Because I was saying to my sister, it wasn't that long ago.
• 41:40
  30 odd years ago.
• 41:41
  I mean, it probably stopped just when I was born.
• 41:44
  So I have no part of it.
• 41:45
  I don't.
• 41:46
  Sure.
• 41:47
  I don't understand it.
• 41:48
  So just like you, I'm just as ignorant as you can't swim.
• 41:52
  Yeah, you can't eat there.
• 41:53
  I've never experienced any of those things.
• 41:55
  Again, also, I say to people, but now I feel like
• 42:00
  like skin privileges are still there in South Africa.
• 42:03
  Yes, people do sometimes look down on people of color,
• 42:06
  or black people in general.
• 42:08
  But I do think people also don't understand
• 42:10
  that apartheid was deeper than just black and white.
• 42:13
  Also, the light to your skin was.
• 42:15
  So it's like, I still see that.
• 42:17
  I'm happy to say that I've got light skin privileges
• 42:21
  in certain spaces.
• 42:23
  Yes.
• 42:24
  Do you know what I mean?
• 42:25
  So how did it affect me?
• 42:27
  Just in terms of, do you see any remnants of that in modern times?
• 42:32
  Yes, 100%.
• 42:34
  I think when people look at someone like me
• 42:38
  and for instance, they come to my house for the first time,
• 42:41
  they know that I'm self-employed and all these things.
• 42:44
  It's like they don't want to believe that I can do that.
• 42:48
  And then when my husband works in it, then it makes sense to them.
• 42:51
  Okay.
• 42:52
  It's like, oh, it makes sense that a colored person is there.
• 42:55
  Oh, because her husband is white and he's from the UK.
• 42:57
  Right.
• 42:58
  It's like they can't give you that reward that you actually did it as well.
• 43:04
  Yeah.
• 43:05
  That's the only downfall actually in South Africa.
• 43:08
  I find when I lived in England as much as there was racism
• 43:12
  and xenophobia and all of those things,
• 43:14
  the one thing that I actually miss about England
• 43:16
  is the fact that people don't put my achievements down on him
• 43:20
  who is with the year.
• 43:22
  And not everyone does it.
• 43:23
  I appreciate there are people that are very open-minded
• 43:25
  and they know I've worked hard because they've known me
• 43:27
  from a very young age.
• 43:29
  But the majority of people would just think,
• 43:31
  you are where you are because of your husband.
• 43:33
  I would have done these things even if it took me longer to get there.
• 43:36
  Luckily, we did it together as a team.
• 43:38
  So it's easier to do something together as a team, isn't it?
• 43:41
  So I just think like my success is always going to be bound
• 43:44
  down to bars, but as long as I live in South Africa.
• 43:46
  Okay.
• 43:47
  Within other countries, I think, I mean, I say other countries,
• 43:49
  I just mean first world countries.
• 43:51
  Because in third world countries, that's how people look at white people.
• 43:53
  We need to be honest.
• 43:55
  Do you know what I mean?
• 43:57
  That's my perception of a part that the legacy had left behind.
• 44:01
  Right.
• 44:02
  You said people still think people of color, they are where they are.
• 44:06
  Oh, oh, because you have a white husband.
• 44:08
  We have a white wife.
• 44:09
  Do you know what I mean?
• 44:10
  Yeah.
• 44:11
  Yeah.
• 44:12
  When you're in Manchester, you get through COVID.
• 44:15
  And you come out the other side, you start working again
• 44:18
  and you find your rhythm.
• 44:19
  At what point do you and your husband reconsider coming back to South Africa?
• 44:25
  We've spoken about it before COVID happened.
• 44:27
  Okay.
• 44:28
  We just didn't have the funds.
• 44:29
  Right.
• 44:30
  We didn't have the means to do it.
• 44:32
  And I mean, you said to me, you know what?
• 44:34
  One day it will happen.
• 44:35
  We can't say when one day is, but it will definitely happen.
• 44:38
  But we didn't realize it will happen, I think, five years after living there.
• 44:43
  Okay.
• 44:44
  You know, when you know, you know, there was never going to be a perfect time.
• 44:47
  And it was actually people think I was the one that pushed him into coming to Lavia.
• 44:51
  He was the one that pushed me even further to come here.
• 44:54
  Really?
• 44:55
  Yes, he is so badly, what did he come in Lavia?
• 44:57
  Because I think.
• 44:58
  Because he, first of all, he knew what that would mean to me.
• 45:04
  My mental health is his first priority, my happiness is his first priority.
• 45:07
  So he really pushed for it.
• 45:09
  We were a little bit more financially stable, you know.
• 45:12
  So that helped, you know, to make the decision.
• 45:15
  I actually wanted to move back in 2027.
• 45:18
  Okay.
• 45:19
  We left in the beginning of 2025.
• 45:23
  Yeah.
• 45:24
  So I still wanted to stay on.
• 45:26
  I think I was in denial about a lot of things.
• 45:30
  And I think, like back in the day, we were talking about it.
• 45:33
  But I always used to think, oh, people are going to think I'm a failure for moving back.
• 45:36
  Oh, shame poor her.
• 45:37
  She thought she was going to make it there, but now she's back.
• 45:39
  I used to think about all those things.
• 45:41
  What would people say?
• 45:42
  And then when I stopped caring about people's opinions, I realized,
• 45:45
  this is going to be good for me.
• 45:47
  I can inspire other people to move, but now I have the knowledge to help them, you know.
• 45:52
  And I think some people think I'm against loving in the UK.
• 45:55
  I'm against them doing it.
• 45:57
  I'm against them, you know, moving, moving to new countries or whatever the case may be.
• 46:02
  I'm not.
• 46:03
  I'm just saying don't move.
• 46:04
  Don't move and think it's going to be a bit of roses.
• 46:06
  Because no one, no one helped me to think like that, but I want to help others.
• 46:10
  That's why I make these videos about the good and the bad.
• 46:13
  So that people can decide, is the, maybe they've not given the weather situation a thought, a first thought.
• 46:19
  Are you a summer person or you win the person and Europe is not for you?
• 46:22
  These are the things that no one spoke to me about.
• 46:25
  So this is why I like to educate.
• 46:27
  Yeah.
• 46:28
  Yeah.
• 46:29
  Do you think you would consider living in another country?
• 46:32
  If I'm honest, no.
• 46:34
  It's not my ambition to live in a country because I don't think I need anything at the moment.
• 46:39
  I think my life is, if I'm honest, I'm very comfortable, financially stable.
• 46:44
  So I'm good with that.
• 46:46
  If it had to come that we had to move, it would only be for Tom's work and I would support him.
• 46:51
  But not because I so want to barely move.
• 46:54
  I can't think of anything that I need from another country like a job or a house or this or that.
• 47:02
  So I am very happy to be back.
• 47:05
  I don't take, because I don't think I've granted any more.
• 47:08
  I'm aware of the problems here.
• 47:10
  I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's perfect for me.
• 47:13
  And it's perfect for Tom.
• 47:15
  He understands each other and we understand that it can work here.
• 47:19
  What does he love?
• 47:20
  I know he's not here to speak for himself, but what does he love about South Africa?
• 47:23
  He loves the people more than anything.
• 47:25
  He can't believe that a lot of the people that don't have much here, they still find a way to smile.
• 47:30
  They'll beat you.
• 47:31
  They'll get out of their way to help you.
• 47:35
  Like I was saying earlier, that would have warmed his heart for me to reverse back and pick someone up.
• 47:39
  Because you know what it's like to not have a car.
• 47:43
  And this person is sending in a hot sun waiting for a taxi.
• 47:46
  So we call it Ubuntu in South Africa.
• 47:49
  It's just communities helping each other, being there for one another and not thinking.
• 47:54
  Because I've done something good, I'm going to get something nice out of it.
• 47:57
  You generally just want to help.
• 47:59
  In Manchester, were you able to find a sense of community?
• 48:03
  Not really. Yes, there was.
• 48:05
  But I feel like it was, I think people tell themselves a bit of stories, especially South Africans who move overseas.
• 48:11
  They find other South Africans.
• 48:13
  And that's not a way to love in my opinion.
• 48:16
  It's good to associate yourself with instances like you find other Jamaicans.
• 48:22
  But that's just for now.
• 48:24
  What long-term you can't do that forever.
• 48:26
  You can't just be around other South Africans ever, barbecue, fry, whatever.
• 48:30
  And I think that's your happiness.
• 48:32
  Are you really happy there?
• 48:34
  Or are you just being around other South Africans as it makes you feel more like you're in South Africa?
• 48:38
  Do you know what I mean?
• 48:40
  So in Manchester, I was happier than in Guernsey.
• 48:43
  But I wouldn't say I was as happy as I am, yeah.
• 48:46
  Right.
• 48:47
  And how did your marriage change when you moved back to South Africa?
• 48:52
  Yeah, I'm going to be better.
• 48:54
  Because now I'm back to my old self.
• 48:58
  If I say something, I don't have to be like,
• 49:00
  oh, I shouldn't have said that.
• 49:02
  You know, I mean, yes, obviously you must have respect for each other.
• 49:05
  But there's a lot of things that I'm still learning or what I can and cannot say in South Africa.
• 49:09
  And then I'm like, oh my, I can say that.
• 49:12
  No one's going to have an easy fit.
• 49:14
  No one's going to make me sound like I'm aggressive or like I'm crazy or anything like that.
• 49:18
  Do you think your relationship with your in-laws is also better?
• 49:21
  Much better.
• 49:22
  Much better.
• 49:23
  Because I think I can think a lot more clearly now.
• 49:25
  But I can also see things from their perspective from back in the day.
• 49:29
  I just think we handled it.
• 49:30
  We didn't handle it well.
• 49:31
  Right.
• 49:32
  I think everyone was just like all over the place here.
• 49:35
  And it's funny that you said about people thinking that you have gone backwards, right?
• 49:40
  Career progression, whatever.
• 49:41
  Because I think that's very common.
• 49:42
  I think most people see America, England, wherever, like the mecca, the BR.
• 49:48
  And the idea that you would even want to return, I think, surprises people.
• 49:52
  Because I tell people all the time, the goal is always to get back to Jamaica.
• 49:55
  And they seem surprised that you would want to go back.
• 49:59
  I just wonder when you did return, were there people that tried to question why you were back?
• 50:07
  Yeah.
• 50:08
  When I'm just in red and middle this day, even some of my clients, a lot of my social media followers don't understand it.
• 50:14
  Some family members don't understand it.
• 50:17
  When I say to them, the one thing I would say to everyone else, you will never get it unless you do it.
• 50:23
  If you are truly honest with yourself, I always say it's not about moving to a new country and then like,
• 50:29
  I hate it, I want to move back.
• 50:30
  It's not about that, it's about the experiences.
• 50:32
  And you telling yourself, is this what I want for the rest of my life?
• 50:35
  Because I think there are people that are genuinely happy in England that has moved from South Africa.
• 50:39
  But they say, well, I can't I be happy moving back.
• 50:42
  Right.
• 50:43
  Why do you accept the people that are happy in England that are from South Africa?
• 50:46
  But you cannot accept it if it's the other way around.
• 50:49
  Because of the way we were taught to look at Europe, at America, at first world countries in general.
• 50:55
  Because another thing that I feel like people don't hear about are the ones that return.
• 51:02
  Yes.
• 51:03
  And so I'm glad you opened the space to talk for me, to talk about this.
• 51:06
  Because you are in what, a similar position, more or less.
• 51:11
  Yeah, people judge you for wanting to move back to Jamaica.
• 51:13
  So I get it.
• 51:14
  The questions that people ask me are insane.
• 51:17
  Like, oh, my word, I would give nothing for safety.
• 51:20
  I would, I would do anything to earn pounds.
• 51:23
  And I'm like, when you earn pounds, you pay your bulls in pounds.
• 51:27
  And you don't have a lot of money left unless you work for yourself.
• 51:30
  And you earn a stupid amount of money or you are a financial freedom, your own properties or whatever the case may be.
• 51:36
  Then having pounds is good.
• 51:38
  And I always say that pounds are only valued in third world countries.
• 51:42
  People in the UK actually love third world.
• 51:44
  So what they pound doesn't make sense.
• 51:46
  They don't have a lot of money.
• 51:48
  They can't go to fancy restaurant, but they can come to fancy restaurants in Cape Town.
• 51:51
  They can go to nice restaurants in Jamaica.
• 51:54
  So don't think because British people come here with their pounds.
• 51:57
  They love like that then.
• 51:58
  Right.
• 51:59
  That's the goal I'm trying to, you know what I mean?
• 52:02
  I'm trying to put out there because people think they just reach all the time.
• 52:06
  Like, no, the pound to the land is quite strong.
• 52:09
  So, you know, they can live in camps being a nice flat for two weeks.
• 52:12
  But then they go back to their version of our rough areas.
• 52:17
  It's just for them also just to numb the pain.
• 52:20
  Yeah.
• 52:21
  Because they constantly have this bad weather, you know.
• 52:24
  And you're just loving to survive in the UK.
• 52:26
  Constantly loving to survive.
• 52:27
  I don't feel like now I'm loving to survive.
• 52:30
  I feel like I'm loving.
• 52:32
  You know what I mean?
• 52:33
  I feel like I'm loving.
• 52:34
  There are so many more people coming to South Africa as in foreigners coming for the holidays.
• 52:38
  As well.
• 52:39
  A lot of Americans.
• 52:41
  What do you, what does that make you feel as a South African?
• 52:44
  Are you proud that lots of people are coming?
• 52:46
  Are you frustrated that perhaps it's affecting cost of living?
• 52:49
  Like, what is your opinion as someone from Cape Town?
• 52:52
  I think for someone who's in business myself, I feel like people also need to understand
• 52:57
  when foreigners do come here, they do, they do provide for their economy.
• 53:02
  And I think people are uneducated about that.
• 53:05
  The cost of living is going to stay the same whether they come or not.
• 53:08
  Oh really?
• 53:09
  Because yes, it's going to stay the same.
• 53:11
  I don't think the cost of living will ever go down.
• 53:13
  Okay.
• 53:14
  Will ever go down.
• 53:15
  How can you tell me because someone is coming from England, the cost of living is going to go down.
• 53:19
  Because a lot of my guests in the Airbnb, a lot of them are South Africans.
• 53:25
  So, so how come I would say five out of ten of our guests a month is South African?
• 53:32
  And then the other five out of ten is maybe like from Brazil or some of them,
• 53:35
  or even from third world countries, like at the moment where I was in Bourbon lady there.
• 53:39
  Right.
• 53:40
  So, you can't tell me everything is about people coming from countries with strong currency.
• 53:44
  Sometimes the price is just the price.
• 53:46
  Right.
• 53:47
  It's no different to London and I've had this conversation with my husband the other day.
• 53:50
  When something is expensive in London, it's because the economy is working.
• 53:53
  If something is expensive in Cape Town, it's because it's the foreigners fault.
• 53:57
  It's because they're coming here and they're paying in pounds and stuff like that.
• 54:01
  But when I love in London, I can't physically cannot afford to live in London.
• 54:07
  Right.
• 54:08
  Like my husband for instance, when he was a university or even first year into a new job,
• 54:13
  no one moves to London because you know how expensive it is.
• 54:16
  Just like Cape Town is expensive compared to Joe Berk and Durban.
• 54:19
  Right.
• 54:20
  But people just blame it strictly on the foreigners.
• 54:23
  They blame it strictly on the foreigners.
• 54:25
  So, how come in New York is expensive if you don't blame it on the foreigners?
• 54:28
  How come you say it's because they've got a strong economy?
• 54:31
  So these are the things that people don't get educated about.
• 54:35
  Right.
• 54:36
  Cape Town's got a strong economy than the rest of South Africa and I think that's why things are...
• 54:40
  You need to pay.
• 54:41
  You don't see a lot of bottles in Cape Town but you don't see a lot of them.
• 54:43
  Go to Joe Berk and you'll see lots of bottles.
• 54:45
  Okay.
• 54:46
  You know what I mean?
• 54:47
  Service delivery.
• 54:48
  I have friends that I met in the UK from Durban.
• 54:50
  They're probably sometimes like Birmingham's council has gone bankrupt.
• 54:56
  In Durban sometimes says rubbish don't get collected.
• 54:58
  In Cape Town your rubbish gets collected every week.
• 55:01
  Whether you live in a town, shop or rough area.
• 55:03
  In the suburbs your rubbish gets collected.
• 55:05
  So things are working in Cape Town so things are expensive for economy to work like that.
• 55:09
  Because they constantly need to pay those people to fill the bottles to collect your rubbish.
• 55:14
  You know things like that.
• 55:15
  You know what I mean?
• 55:16
  So people don't understand the economics part of it.
• 55:18
  They only see the social media side of it.
• 55:21
  A foreigner saying, ooh, I went to Woolwoods.
• 55:24
  We can pay.
• 55:25
  It only cost me 50 pounds.
• 55:26
  It's cheap.
• 55:27
  Of course it's cheap for them.
• 55:28
  They could never do that in the UK.
• 55:29
  Right.
• 55:30
  Have you ever seen a British person say things are cheap in the UK?
• 55:33
  No.
• 55:34
  Because there's no education for South Africans that they're struggling.
• 55:36
  There's no education for them.
• 55:37
  I used to count every penny when I loved in the UK.
• 55:40
  Why?
• 55:41
  And then when I came to South Africa I was like, okay the power is a bit stronger to the run when I used to come on holiday.
• 55:46
  And I'm like, right, this is really really nice.
• 55:49
  But then it's back to reality after two weeks.
• 55:51
  Yeah.
• 55:52
  Yeah.
• 55:53
  Do you know what I mean?
• 55:54
  But it's also providing jobs for people like the coffee shop, the foreigners sit in or the locals.
• 56:00
  If they close that shop down they need to be able to pay their rent in the overhead.
• 56:04
  So there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes.
• 56:07
  I'm not saying some people don't take advantage.
• 56:09
  I'm not trying to down talk what people's feelings.
• 56:12
  I appreciate where people are coming from.
• 56:14
  But New York is expensive for the locals.
• 56:17
  That's why a lot of people move out of New York and they go to other parts of America because it's expensive.
• 56:22
  I know I've met lots of British people from London.
• 56:25
  They cannot afford to live in London.
• 56:27
  It's got nothing to do with foreigners because London is expensive.
• 56:30
  Because things work better.
• 56:32
  It's got a better economy as well.
• 56:34
  Do you know what I mean?
• 56:35
  So you think that it being expensive is a sign, is a positive sign?
• 56:39
  It's a positive and a negative.
• 56:41
  Obviously I don't want things to be expensive.
• 56:43
  Sure.
• 56:44
  But I also think people, everything is one sided.
• 56:46
  I'm talking about the other side now.
• 56:48
  The expensive part is bad.
• 56:49
  Right.
• 56:50
  I don't want it to be expensive.
• 56:51
  Of course I sometimes walk into the shops and I'm like,
• 56:53
  Did I just pay that much for what?
• 56:56
  A love of sourdough bread?
• 56:58
  Sure.
• 56:59
  Whatever the case may be.
• 57:00
  What's property like?
• 57:01
  In terms of because it's so sought after being caped on.
• 57:05
  So stunning and beautiful and you can have these beautiful properties looking over the ocean.
• 57:09
  Have you seen an increase in property prices because more foreigners want to buy a holiday home to Airbnb?
• 57:15
  That is the number one thing that I think the South African government should actually stop.
• 57:20
  It's to stop by letting foreigners buy property in our own country because I can't do that in the UK.
• 57:26
  But also even in Bali.
• 57:28
  You cannot be a foreigner on the land.
• 57:30
  You don't even need a visa to do it.
• 57:32
  You just need the money.
• 57:33
  Okay.
• 57:34
  Because I have a friend who's an immigration expert and she said if Tom wanted to,
• 57:38
  even if Tom didn't know you, if he wanted to buy a house, he could.
• 57:41
  And you could stay here for three months, go back there.
• 57:43
  You can, you can, you allow to stay for three months.
• 57:45
  Yes.
• 57:46
  So I pick up a visa as a British citizen.
• 57:48
  And it's like, okay, then everyone is going to do it.
• 57:51
  That is wrong.
• 57:52
  That I don't like.
• 57:53
  Because it leaves no room for like university graduates when they want to buy a house.
• 57:58
  It's going to be so expensive.
• 57:59
  Yeah.
• 58:00
  Do you know what I mean?
• 58:01
  Yeah.
• 58:02
  So yes, I think the fact that capes on is so beautiful and it's so, it's talked about.
• 58:05
  You know, we've won so many awards for most beautiful city in the world and all those things.
• 58:11
  But I think foreigners do it because the exchange rate is so great.
• 58:14
  Right.
• 58:15
  Do you know what I mean?
• 58:16
  What do you want people to know about capeton or South Africa that you don't think they already know?
• 58:21
  I want people to know that South African general is not a bad place.
• 58:26
  There are a few bad people that commit crime.
• 58:28
  There are a few bad people that give it a bad name.
• 58:31
  But I think it's, it's all media propaganda most of the time.
• 58:34
  Because if it was as bad as it was out there, like people say it was, I wouldn't be here.
• 58:41
  My British husband wouldn't be here.
• 58:43
  We wouldn't feel the love and the warmth.
• 58:45
  And I think that is something that you can only experience when you're here.
• 58:48
  So when you're sitting in the UK and you want to be, we see documentaries.
• 58:52
  It's like the first thing people would tell me when I told them I was from South Africa is that it's dangerous.
• 58:58
  It's like they know nothing else.
• 59:00
  They don't know about how beautiful it is.
• 59:02
  They don't know about the Ubuntu.
• 59:03
  They don't know about the food culture.
• 59:05
  Like the diversity.
• 59:07
  It's a shock that there's white people.
• 59:09
  You know things like that.
• 59:10
  Yeah, yeah.
• 59:11
  There's things like that.
• 59:12
  So I wish people always say to me a lot of my trolls that that's so anti- South Africa that has moved abroad.
• 59:19
  They'll always say, you know you're loving an offensive world.
• 59:21
  You always show the nice side of Cape Town.
• 59:23
  And I say, I find that funny because you never tell the BBC that they only show the bad side.
• 59:29
  When you watch a documentary about England and how posh it is and the royal family,
• 59:35
  all of that, you don't question it.
• 59:37
  But when a proud South African shows the nice side of South Africa, you question it.
• 59:40
  But also if that's your lived experience.
• 59:42
  Why are you supposed to?
• 59:43
  But I've lived both.
• 59:44
  I always say to people, I've lived the third world life.
• 59:47
  And I'm loving the first world middle class life.
• 59:49
  So for me, what do you want me to do?
• 59:51
  Do you want me to pretend that I'm still living in a country because I don't?
• 59:54
  Do you want me to pretend that I live in a rough area because I don't?
• 59:57
  If you go to nice restaurants, I do travel.
• 1:00:00
  So I have to show you guys that someone who looks like me can do all those things.
• 1:00:04
  Why is it a problem to you?
• 1:00:06
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:00:07
  It's because you know the first world country that you move to is showing you flames.
• 1:00:12
  You know that the cost of loving is just as high there.
• 1:00:15
  Right.
• 1:00:16
  And so for me, my message to anyone who's watching this, who's fearful of coming to South Africa,
• 1:00:22
  you just need to have common sense.
• 1:00:24
  If I ever heard things about Jamaica, but I would never,
• 1:00:27
  the first thing I would not tell you is that, oh my word, it's so dangerous.
• 1:00:30
  Oh my word, are you a rastafarian?
• 1:00:32
  Because I've learned, it's very hurtful to say that to someone,
• 1:00:36
  whether they are proud to be from a country or not,
• 1:00:38
  because people think you're saying they are like that.
• 1:00:40
  Right.
• 1:00:41
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:00:42
  Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  I mean, I meet a lot of British people in a lot of Germans.
• 1:00:45
  I don't call them, oh, so are you racist?
• 1:00:48
  Because I know back in the day, you're full far this is to colonize the whole world.
• 1:00:51
  Sorry about that.
• 1:00:52
  No problem.
• 1:00:53
  So I wouldn't say the negative things that I really know about,
• 1:00:57
  the UK, I really know about German, I wouldn't say that to them.
• 1:01:00
  Because I know it's not their fault.
• 1:01:01
  Right.
• 1:01:02
  But people, people define that I think only by the negative that they are.
• 1:01:06
  Because a lot of them don't have the positive experience.
• 1:01:11
  And there's no positivity about that I figure out there.
• 1:01:14
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:01:16
  Is there anything that you would have wanted to talk about that we didn't touch on?
• 1:01:20
  Yes, just one more thing before we wrap up.
• 1:01:27
  If you are a South African or anyone who comes from a disadvantaged background
• 1:01:32
  or you've moved overseas for a better life,
• 1:01:36
  any thinking of coming back, do you research, ask yourself,
• 1:01:39
  what is the cost of living of coming back?
• 1:01:41
  Don't do it.
• 1:01:42
  Don't run back because your mental health is taking the toll
• 1:01:45
  or you aren't happier whatever the case may be.
• 1:01:47
  Think about it.
• 1:01:48
  Ask yourself, do you want to love like that for the rest of your life?
• 1:01:51
  And if the answer is no, then come home.
• 1:01:54
  Don't care about people's opinions.
• 1:01:56
  I used to care, oh, people would think I'm a failure of that.
• 1:01:59
  But in any case, that's not the case.
• 1:02:02
  So come back if you want to, whether you're from Jamaica or Thailand
• 1:02:07
  or South Africa or Nigeria or Zimbabwe, go home.
• 1:02:10
  There's nothing wrong with where you come from.
• 1:02:12
  If you have financial freedom to go back home,
• 1:02:15
  I don't see why you need to continue to live in a country
• 1:02:18
  that you're not happy in.
• 1:02:20
  Just to show people that I can continue to do it.
• 1:02:23
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:24
  And if you are happy in those countries, then stay there.
• 1:02:27
  The system, the system, the system is for people that want to do it.
• 1:02:30
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:31
  Like, I'm an example that if you can dream it, you can probably love it.
• 1:02:36
  My last question.
• 1:02:38
  If your life was a postcard, what would the picture look like?
• 1:02:41
  Outside the township and outside the middle class side.
• 1:02:45
  And I would have the broken heart on that side and the heart on that side
• 1:02:50
  and be like, it's fine.
• 1:02:52
  That doesn't define you.
• 1:02:55
  Can I ask a quick question, actually, that I didn't think about?
• 1:02:58
  When you returned from the UK, did you feel that you related to your family
• 1:03:04
  and friends in the same way?
• 1:03:06
  No, I actually lost a lot of friends because I feel like we've...
• 1:03:10
  We've grown each other because my thinking is so much greater now.
• 1:03:14
  I'm far more ambitious.
• 1:03:16
  I want to do things, babe, so I don't have time to gossip about people.
• 1:03:19
  Like, I've got clients waiting on what emails to respond to.
• 1:03:22
  So we can't talk about moving forward.
• 1:03:25
  I don't know what we're going to do with each other.
• 1:03:27
  So I've actually lost a lot of friends because I'm way too ambitious now.
• 1:03:31
  Not because I think I'm better than them, but I think we can't connect...
• 1:03:35
  In the same ways.
• 1:03:37
  And do you think that there was any resentment on their part
• 1:03:41
  that you had had this experience and they hadn't?
• 1:03:44
  I wouldn't say a lot of them think that.
• 1:03:46
  I think a lot of them will tell me that they are proud of me,
• 1:03:49
  especially my childhood friends.
• 1:03:51
  I mean, I reconnected with a primary school friend,
• 1:03:53
  the other other that found me on social media,
• 1:03:55
  and she told me she's proud of me.
• 1:03:57
  So there are those who...
• 1:03:59
  9 out of 10 of them is proud of me.
• 1:04:01
  And then there's always that one that would hate, you know?
• 1:04:04
  So I don't concentrate on that.
• 1:04:06
  So no, I must say the perception from the South Africans
• 1:04:12
  who are watching me from a perception that has never traveled before.
• 1:04:15
  I think they are extremely proud of me.
• 1:04:17
  Because a lot of them are also so proud to be South African.
• 1:04:20
  It's like, wow, she's coming back to us.
• 1:04:22
  It mustn't be that bad.
• 1:04:23
  It can't be that bad, do you know what I mean?
• 1:04:26
  Do you think that your successes that you have been able to achieve
• 1:04:30
  have healed the little girl?
• 1:04:33
  Yes.
• 1:04:34
  I just wish I could give her the biggest fat hug on the planet and tell her
• 1:04:39
  everything is going to be okay.
• 1:04:42
  Everything is going to be okay.
• 1:04:44
  You know?
• 1:04:45
  She just didn't have the education that she has now.
• 1:04:47
  And so that's why it took her longer to get here.
• 1:04:50
  And that's why I didn't go to college when I was 18.
• 1:04:52
  I went when I was 22, 23.
• 1:04:54
  So this is why it took so long because you have to face all this adversity
• 1:04:59
  that's in your way, you know?
• 1:05:02
  Because remember, it's the whole world, talking to an African's point of view now.
• 1:05:07
  It did sit against people of color.
• 1:05:09
  So you have to get out of all this hurdles first, you know what I mean?
• 1:05:13
  I mean, my first rental was sharing a room with someone.
• 1:05:17
  Really?
• 1:05:18
  Yes.
• 1:05:19
  That was just to get out and the introduction to first world life and stuff like that.
• 1:05:25
  So it takes time and don't give up.
• 1:05:28
  Don't give up like if you give up, think how far you've come.
• 1:05:33
  And if you give up, all that hard work goes down the drain.
• 1:05:37
  But if you continue, you almost there.
• 1:05:39
  Just tell yourself, I'm almost there, I'm almost there.
• 1:05:41
  I'm still, I think a lot of people are shocked when I say this.
• 1:05:43
  I'm not anywhere close to where I want to be.
• 1:05:45
  I still feel like I've not achieved anything in life.
• 1:05:49
  I guess if your dreams don't scare you, not dreaming big enough.
• 1:05:52
  What is the dream?
• 1:05:53
  To have maybe two, three salons.
• 1:05:55
  Okay.
• 1:05:56
  To own a few properties.
• 1:05:57
  You know, to have financial freedom to a point where I can maybe try at the age of 45 or something like that.
• 1:06:03
  Those are the dreams, you know.
• 1:06:05
  At the moment, I still feel like I'm grinding.
• 1:06:08
  I'm working really, really hard.
• 1:06:09
  We've got a guest.
• 1:06:10
  We need to go clean the Airbnb.
• 1:06:11
  You know, I'm fully booked for the day like frickin' heck, have I eaten.
• 1:06:15
  You know, so I'm still there.
• 1:06:17
  I'm still there.
• 1:06:18
  I'm grateful to be busy.
• 1:06:19
  Like in terms of being self-employed, I couldn't have asked for like a better start to be self-employed in South Africa.
• 1:06:27
  Because I was actually quite scared that I wasn't going to be busy.
• 1:06:29
  But to my surprise, I'm very busy.
• 1:06:32
  So the dream is to have my own salon.
• 1:06:36
  I have stopped working for me.
• 1:06:38
  Then I can have a bit more freedom.
• 1:06:40
  Those are the long-term goals.
• 1:06:42
  But it takes time.
• 1:06:43
  There's nothing to get there.
• 1:06:44
  So people probably think, ooh, she's made it.
• 1:06:47
  I don't think I have.
• 1:06:49
  I don't think I have.
• 1:06:50
  Do you think that not feeling that you've made it obviously gives you the drive right to continue going?
• 1:06:55
  But do you think that you have been able to also balance being present and proud?
• 1:07:00
  Yes.
• 1:07:01
  I am proud of myself.
• 1:07:02
  I am present.
• 1:07:03
  But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to dream about that.
• 1:07:06
  I don't want people to take the wrong message.
• 1:07:08
  I don't want people to think that I'm ungrateful for what I have.
• 1:07:11
  I love and I am very, very proud.
• 1:07:14
  It's extremely privy to life.
• 1:07:16
  Sometimes I don't even look at how much something costs.
• 1:07:18
  And then when I get home, I'm like, frickin' heck.
• 1:07:20
  You don't even...
• 1:07:21
  Like I had to ask someone the other day, how much is this?
• 1:07:23
  Because how much does that cost?
• 1:07:25
  Not because I'm in a privileged situation that I don't have to count every penny.
• 1:07:29
  But do you know what I mean?
• 1:07:31
  So I'm in a privileged position, but I want to be even more privileged than that.
• 1:07:34
  There's nothing wrong with dreaming.
• 1:07:36
  It's nothing wrong with dreaming.
• 1:07:38
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:07:39
  Do you think that South African culture celebrates the dreaming?
• 1:07:43
  Because I feel that England doesn't.
• 1:07:45
  I think that in England wanting to be the best is almost naughty.
• 1:07:50
  Like, why do you want to be the best?
• 1:07:52
  And I just wondered, what is the energy in South Africa?
• 1:07:54
  Are you encouraged to...
• 1:07:56
  Yes, I think people are proud of people of colour in general.
• 1:07:59
  Okay.
• 1:08:00
  That has drained so big.
• 1:08:01
  And I think a lot of people have told me this.
• 1:08:03
  I get a lot of DMs from primary school friends, church people and all of that.
• 1:08:07
  I just think the difference between South African and England is that when you are a person of colour in England, it's like...
• 1:08:14
  I think they hate to see confident people of colour in England.
• 1:08:19
  How dare you ask more confident in the white British girls or the white British men or whatever.
• 1:08:23
  So I think people don't celebrate you.
• 1:08:25
  They just think, you know, it's okay.
• 1:08:28
  It's a sad story.
• 1:08:29
  We all have a sad story.
• 1:08:30
  But my story is not sad.
• 1:08:31
  My story is a success story.
• 1:08:33
  I don't want people to feel sorry for me based on how I grew up versus where I am now.
• 1:08:37
  I want people to take from it, but they want to take from it to help them achieve their goals.
• 1:08:42
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:08:44
  Don't be scared to get into an interracial relationship.
• 1:08:46
  Don't be scared to move abroad.
• 1:08:48
  I've done things that none of my forefathers could ever dream about.
• 1:08:52
  Do you know what I mean?
• 1:08:53
  I mean, 30 odd years ago it would have been illegal for me to be married to my husband.
• 1:08:57
  How crazy.
• 1:08:58
  Do you know how crazy that is?
• 1:08:59
  So for you to still be in that mindset, why people are the enemy?
• 1:09:02
  Why people?
• 1:09:03
  That could be your future husband.
• 1:09:04
  That person could treat you like a princess.
• 1:09:07
  How was your mom with your relationship?
• 1:09:09
  Very, very, very chilled.
• 1:09:11
  Okay.
• 1:09:12
  Not once did she mention his race, but my mom says that type of person.
• 1:09:15
  I don't think because you grew up doing a party automatic and it would be anti-wine.
• 1:09:19
  Right.
• 1:09:20
  I think that's a myth.
• 1:09:21
  I think there are people that are like that, but some people are just like right.
• 1:09:24
  I grew up doing a party, but my mentality is that not all white people are bad.
• 1:09:28
  That's my mentality.
• 1:09:29
  The ones that are bad will address them.
• 1:09:32
  Yes?
• 1:09:33
  But the ones that aren't bad, they're not, they're cool.
• 1:09:35
  You know?
• 1:09:36
  No, I don't have any issues with my husband.
• 1:09:38
  In actual fact, I don't know of someone who's less racist than my husband.
• 1:09:42
  But people would probably make an example, put me in a room and him.
• 1:09:46
  And if you ask someone who's more racist, I'll probably say him because he's white.
• 1:09:51
  Right.
• 1:09:52
  Where's what I feel like?
• 1:09:53
  A lot of people of color also racist, but he's never spoken about those people of color can't be racist.
• 1:09:58
  Right.
• 1:09:59
  Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  Cool.
• 1:10:01
  Well, thank you very much for sharing.
• 1:10:02
  Thank you for having me and to your viewers for watching.
• 1:10:05
  Thank you.
• 1:10:06
  Thank you.
• 1:10:07
  Cool.