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The Surprising History of Steelers vs Jets · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Hannon and I have a co-host with me.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: His name is Uh Steve Wirt.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: What's up, Steve?
0:12
SPEAKER_07: Oh, not much.
0:13
SPEAKER_07: I'm ready to hear all these clips that you have assembled for us.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: And and we've got a clip-heavy show and we've got a timely show because football season's here.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Yay, football season.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: Woo!
0:29
SPEAKER_07: You know, we've just been dying, you know, without anything to entertain us for nine, eight months.
0:36
SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
0:36
SPEAKER_07: When was the zoo roll over?
0:37
SPEAKER_07: February?
0:38
SPEAKER_07: So six or seven months?
0:39
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: It's been a hot minute.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: And this football season, the Steors open up in sunny New Jersey against the New York Jets.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: So this episode, we are going to talk about the surprising history of Steors and Jets.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: So Steve, the Jets.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Like them, hate them, or indifferent?
1:19
SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
1:20
SPEAKER_07: I've never I've never hated them.
1:22
SPEAKER_07: They've never had anything that I could remember ever hating them about.
1:25
SPEAKER_07: I just they're like one of those teams that the Steelers always seem to beat.
1:30
SPEAKER_07: Now I know that they've lost a couple in recent history, but it just seems like anytime the Steelers need a win, if they play the Jets or the Colts, we're getting it.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: It's it's never been a huge rivalry.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Um I I was always mostly indifferent to the Jets.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, I always thought they were a kind of a loser franchise who couldn't get out of their own way.
1:53
SPEAKER_07: So they're they're kind of the Pit Panthers of the L ranks.
1:58
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, so I was I was mostly indifferent, but I have hated, hated them ever since the infamous Monday night football game of October 21st, 2019.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: So I gotta I gotta do a little story here.
2:14
SPEAKER_07: Well, this is odd.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:16
SPEAKER_07: So do tell us more, Tim.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that week I was locked in a really critical battle with my brother in our fantasy football league where I really needed to win.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: And going into the Monday night game between the Patriots and the Jets, I have a pretty big lead, and the only player my brother has left is the New England defense.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: And I did the math before the game.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: All I needed to win the week was for one of these two things to happen.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: Number one, the Jets score points.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Any points, a field goal, whatever.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: Just safety.
2:51
SPEAKER_07: Safety.
2:52
SPEAKER_07: Fair cat kits.
2:54
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: But even, Steve, even in the absence of points by the Jets, I could still win the week as long as the Jets committed fewer than five turnovers.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: So that's all I needed from this sorry, miserable excuse for a franchise.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Score once or get shut out, but only commit four turnovers in the process.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: Not a big ask, right?
3:16
SPEAKER_07: I get the feeling I get the feeling it was a big ask.
3:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
3:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Sure enough, the Jets get shut out, and Sam Darnold commits five turnovers by turnovers by himself.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: I've never, I can honestly say this, I've never been more infuriated watching a sporting event in my entire life.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: And there's multiple times where it's like I'm thinking, okay, you know, it's 33-0 New England.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the Jets will just get a garbage touchdown here only to watch Darnold throw another interception in the end zone.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: And and ESPN that night, they had the um New York sideline mic'd up.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: And Darnold is telling uh Jets coach Adam Gase that he's seeing ghosts out there.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: You remember that?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And I'm screaming at my TV, well then stop throwing the football to the freaking ghosts.
4:03
SPEAKER_07: Maybe, maybe he like uh disassociated.
4:06
SPEAKER_07: He couldn't tell reality from he's like, ooh, maybe that's a real player.
4:11
SPEAKER_07: Maybe he thought he was thrown to uh who was the famous Jets receiver back in the 70s that Namath used to throw to Don Maynard or somebody.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: I think the I think the Jets should disassociate themselves from the National Football League.
4:24
SPEAKER_07: They should go to like the Canadian Football League?
4:27
SPEAKER_07: Where else are they gonna go?
4:28
SPEAKER_02: They they add nothing of value to football as far as I'm concerned.
4:33
SPEAKER_07: So I will not have you impugned the the Jets, I don't know, whatever they have.
4:39
SPEAKER_07: Uh uh I mean Woody Johnson, I told you how Woody Johnson made his money, right?
4:46
SPEAKER_07: And one of the I know one of the podcasts, right?
4:49
SPEAKER_02: How how I can't remember.
4:51
SPEAKER_07: Well, you ever heard of a little company called Johnson and Johnson?
4:55
SPEAKER_07: That's right, yeah.
4:56
SPEAKER_07: He's one of the Johnsons, literally.
4:59
SPEAKER_07: I mean, I don't mean that in a suggestive way either.
5:02
SPEAKER_07: Um every time you put a band-aid on, you have now paid Aaron Rodgers whatever money they still owe him.
5:12
SPEAKER_07: Or Keevan, who else is like, why do the Jets always draft like Pitt Panthers?
5:17
SPEAKER_07: Have you ever noticed that?
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're gonna talk about that.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about that.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because there is some Pittsburgh connections for sure.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: I I I will say I feel sorry for their fans.
5:26
SPEAKER_07: Um, it isn't Mike Greenberg a fan.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, Mike Greenberg and and all their other fans too.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: I I just I can't imagine being a fan of that team.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: In fact, here's actually a good take from uh the folks at Saturday Night Live.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Black Philadelphia Sunday.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: We've got a big game coming up between the Philadelphia Eagles who lead the NFC East and the New York Jets, who were cursed by Warlock a thousand years ago, and they can never experience joy.
5:57
SPEAKER_07: So, yeah, that's that's a nice Kurt Mennefee impersonation by uh Kel or Keenan or whatever.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Keenan Thompson, yeah.
6:05
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, let's let's talk about Steel Wars and Jets.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Let's at least start off with some fun facts about Steel Wars versus Jets.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh we'll start with the all-time series.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: And Steve, I'll let you and the listeners take a guess here.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Because you said the Steelers, you know, mostly won.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: So here, the Steelers and Jets have played each other 28 times.
6:25
SPEAKER_07: It's gotta be like the Jets have only won like maybe five or seven at best.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: I so you're saying the Steelers have won how many of the 28?
6:36
SPEAKER_07: Like like 21.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: The Pittsburgh Steelers lead the series 21 to 7.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Ding ding ding.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: You are right on the money.
6:46
SPEAKER_08: Woo-hoo!
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Wow, you you win the big prize, which is my adulation.
6:52
SPEAKER_07: Well, you know, that that's what I've been angling for all these years, and I finally got it.
6:56
SPEAKER_07: All right, I'm out.
6:57
SPEAKER_07: I retired from podcasting.
7:00
SPEAKER_07: Five years it took me.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh, some more fun facts.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: The Jets never won a game at the River Stadium, although they have won twice at Heinz slash Aquisher.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Jets and Steelers once played a preseason game in Seattle back in 1972.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: That was before Seattle had a team.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of like a test the market kind of thing.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: And 44,000 people.
7:27
SPEAKER_07: Look at what you're missing here, Seattle.
7:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, look at what you're missing, Seattle fans.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, they got 44,000 people, so that helped solidify Seattle as a future NFL market.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the longest field goal in the history of Heinz Field slash Aquisher is kicked by Chris Boswell against the Jets in 2022.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: That was a 59-yarder.
7:47
SPEAKER_07: Wait a minute.
7:48
SPEAKER_07: There aren't there aren't any 60 yarders?
7:50
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's right.
7:51
SPEAKER_07: I think 50 yards.
7:52
SPEAKER_07: Remember, there weren't any 50 yarders for the longest time.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: But uh between Boswell, I think Ben Solves has a couple 50 yarders, too.
8:01
SPEAKER_07: That's because they put that giant jumbotron in the end.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: It did help.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: It did help, yeah.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh Jerome Bettis of the Steelers and Curtis Martin of the Jets, who are both Hall of Fame running backs, actually each threw touchdown passes against the other players' team.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember that.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Martin threw a touchdown pass against the Steelers in 2001, and Bettis threw one against the Jets in 2004.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: And speaking speaking of Martin, he is one of several Hall of Fame players who played for the Jets who has local ties.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: The others are Darrell Reevas, Jason Taylor, Ty Law, and Joe Namath.
8:42
SPEAKER_07: That's unreal, huh?
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:44
SPEAKER_07: I didn't realize Ty Law ended up with the Jets.
8:46
SPEAKER_07: That must have been at the end of his career.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it was well, it was after the Patriots, I know that.
8:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_07: Darrell Reeves and Curtis Martin are more people I think of with the Jets.
8:57
SPEAKER_07: Other Joe Namath, of course.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Jason Taylor too wasn't.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you think of him as more of a dolphin.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then lastly, this upcoming game this year in 2025 features the first instance in NFL history where the opening day starting quarterbacks will be facing the team that they were opening day quarterbacks for the year before.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: So Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback for the Steelers.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: He was the opening day starter for the Jets in 2024.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Justin Fields is a starter for the Jets, and he was the opening day starter for the Steelers in 2024.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: All right, so let's talk about the history of Steelers Jets, and we'll start with the first ever game between these two teams.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: It happens right after the AFL NFL merger on November 8th, 1970.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: It's also the first ever sellout at Three Rivers Stadium.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Really?
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
9:54
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
9:55
SPEAKER_07: I think that that that has to be they've had sell-outs ever since.
10:01
SPEAKER_07: Except for the do they they don't count the replacement player games, right, where they didn't sell out.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think they sold those games out.
10:09
SPEAKER_07: But they don't really ever count those.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know that they've had sell-outs ever since, because remember, this is 1970s, so they're still not great.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, but the reason this game's a sellout, Steve, is because a lot of people want to watch this guy, Joe Namath, who at the time was a pretty big celebrity, and and of course, you know, as we mentioned, had local ties.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: And and remember, like this is peak, I don't know, like baby boomer.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, anyone who is countercultural like Broadway Joe was was a big deal.
10:43
SPEAKER_07: Well, he had long hair, and apparently Abe Simpson's wife just couldn't control herself.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he challenges authority figures and people just swoon at the very you know sight of him.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Including Homer Simpson's mother, I guess.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:58
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, that's right.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh but in all seriousness, the reason that this was the first sell it primarily was because people wanted to see Namath.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: And um someone in that game even hangs up a huge We Love You Joe banner from the upper deck of Three River Stadium.
11:17
SPEAKER_07: Did you did you ever see the Joe Namath commercial where he's wearing uh nylons?
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Pantyhose, yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_07: That's he was very ahead of his time.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: He was.
11:30
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: He was.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh unfortunately that day, Steve, Namath has a wrist injury, so he's not playing in this game.
11:38
SPEAKER_07: Oh.
11:39
SPEAKER_07: Was he wearing his big fur coat on the sidelines?
11:42
SPEAKER_07: It was November.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: He may have been.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: So Joe Namath isn't playing.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Neither is rookie Terry Bradshaw.
11:49
SPEAKER_07: Oh goodness, who are the quarters?
11:51
SPEAKER_07: This is gonna, what is it, the Terry Hanratty show?
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: This the sell-out crowd at the river stadium gets to see Terry Hanratdy besting Jets quarterback Al Woodall.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: 21-17 Steelers win.
12:07
SPEAKER_07: And not the B smirch the Woodall family, but I have no idea who Al Woodall is.
12:11
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, me either.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't think Jets fans probably would either.
12:15
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so that's the first game.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Three years later, the Steelers are scheduled to play the Jets at Shay Stadium, but the game has moved to Three Rivers because the Mets are playing in the World Series.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: So now will Pittsburgh fans get to see Joe Namath this time?
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Nope, he's hurt again.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: And so is Al Woodall.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: So this time it's the legendary Bill Demery playing quarterback for the Jets.
12:43
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
12:44
SPEAKER_07: This is a deep dive in the Jets quarterback history.
12:47
SPEAKER_07: It is.
12:48
SPEAKER_07: It is.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh Terry Bradshaw does start this one for the Steel Wars, but he gets benched for Han Raddy in the second half.
12:55
SPEAKER_07: I get benched for a Terry Hanratdy.
12:57
SPEAKER_07: Out.
12:57
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is 1973.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: So we're still not quite in prime three.
13:02
SPEAKER_07: This is this is post-immaculate reception, even.
13:05
SPEAKER_07: It is, yeah.
13:06
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers win again 26-14.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: Joe Namath never does play a game in Pittsburgh, although the Steel Wars do play him in New York in 1975 in a game in which they intercept him four times.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: And after that game in New York, Steel Wars defensive lineman Dwight White says in reference to Namath's enormous salary, quote, I've never been on the field with anything so expensive in my entire life.
13:33
SPEAKER_07: You know, a lot of people consider Joe Namath somewhat overrated.
13:36
SPEAKER_07: Like I've always heard that about him being in the Hall of Fame.
13:38
SPEAKER_07: Like he's one of the weakest Hall of Famers out there.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: This is it's funny that everybody thinks that now because when we were younger and it was like the like that 80s, 90s era where again you had a lot of the baby boomer era influence.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: Joe Namath was considered the you know one of the greatest quarterbacks ever.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: In fact, when the NFL did their 75th anniversary team, he made it.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they I think they only picked four quarterbacks and he was one of them, which is kind of a joke if you look back on it.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: It's all because, Steve, he won Super Bowl three.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: It was that one game, and it was a big deal.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to take that away from him.
14:21
SPEAKER_07: It's just not that he won it, it's the way he played.
14:24
SPEAKER_07: Like like we've mentioned a few, like I have a few things he did that were like you would never see Johnny Unitis guaranteeing a win.
14:32
SPEAKER_07: Like that would be very anti-baby, like anti-grightest generation, I should say, not baby boomer, like guaranteeing a win is very baby boomer, like I guarantee we're gonna win, and then going out and doing it, and then the pantyhose commercial, the big fur coat, the long hair.
14:51
SPEAKER_07: That's all things that like the generation before would never do.
14:54
SPEAKER_07: The stow like they're very stoic, whereas like baby boomers were more like in touch with their feelings, I I guess.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: And and and that generation loved those types of athletes, you know.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: Muhammad Ali was one of those guys.
15:08
SPEAKER_07: Like he would talk trash while he's like beating the crap out of somebody.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: So that's who they love.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: They love the outspoken, you know.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: You you always said, Steve, what was that quote you always say about baby boomers and their parents?
15:20
SPEAKER_07: Any any anything to piss off their parents, they love.
15:23
SPEAKER_07: Right.
15:24
SPEAKER_07: Just like a, you know, just like the Abe Simpson, you know, and his I can't remember his wife's name on the show, but that that's kind of the same dynamic.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: That was the joke, yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: And and so I think that I think now that that that that's history has evened out Joe Namus legacy a lot better now.
15:44
SPEAKER_07: Hey, I mean, how many people have wanted to kiss Susie Colbert, though?
15:47
SPEAKER_07: I mean, you know it didn't inspire a blog called Kissing Susie Colbert, which I don't know if it's still around anymore.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: No, it's not, but I used to love that blog.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I you know it's funny too.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: Like today, I don't want to get off on too much of a tangent, but today athletes that are outspoken, they're not really people don't like that as much.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: You know?
16:11
SPEAKER_07: I think it's kind of the run like they always say like every other generate like our gener like our generation probably we're and I guess we're both Gen X-ish, kind of.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: We're both Gen Xers, yes.
16:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, we're later Gen Xers, but we but we always we probably relate more with our grandparents than our parents.
16:33
SPEAKER_07: And it is weird, and then I think I found that with my kids they related more with my grand than me, you know.
16:41
SPEAKER_07: So I I it's just a weird thing in life, and I don't not sure why it works that way, but it seems to.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: It does, you're right.
16:50
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Alright, so the Steelers Jets series continues to remain, you know, I would say mostly one-sided throughout the 70s and even into the 80s.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: In fact, the the Jets don't beat the Steelers at all until 1988, which is their tenth try.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: So the first nine games, the Steelers win all of them.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: The Jets do give the Steelers some spirited games during that stretch.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: After one such game in 1978, where the Jets, who are expected to get blown out, actually, you know, make it a game for most of the contest.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: Reporters ask Steelers linebacker Jack Lambert, you know, hey, why did you guys have such a tough time putting this team away?
17:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, they were huge underdogs, you should have blown them out.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: To which Lambert replies, quote, we won 28-17, we're 5-0, what the hell do you want?
17:40
SPEAKER_07: I want a 50 to nothing lamb pasting.
17:44
SPEAKER_07: This isn't college, you know.
17:46
SPEAKER_07: This is they aren't playing like you know, CCAC down, you know, or they're playing a for real pro team, so yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, Jack Lambert agrees.
17:55
SPEAKER_07: I uh you know, these guys get paid too.
17:59
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean the Jets may be incompetent, but they're not that incompetent.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're right.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: It's the NFL, and that's something that everybody has to remember, even even like when Mike Tomlin goes and loses to the to the two and ten team, which happens too often.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's the NFL teams are NFL teams, and uh it's not like college.
18:19
SPEAKER_07: I think sometimes people take like that high school or college mentality.
18:22
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, sometimes in college and high school, there's just gross mismal mismatched talent disparities.
18:29
SPEAKER_07: Right.
18:30
SPEAKER_07: And that doesn't happen that much in the NFL because you know, even the worst NFL franchise is gonna pick good enough players to be competitive once in a while.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh a really significant game occurs in 1983.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers and Jets are playing in what will be the final ever NFL game to be played in New York City because the Jets and Giants have both played their own games in New Jersey ever since.
18:58
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_07: I uh we've talked about this game.
19:00
SPEAKER_07: Is this the Terry Bradshaw's last game?
19:02
SPEAKER_02: It is, yeah.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: It's that's the other reason it's significant, and the the bigger reason is significant because, like you said, it's Terry Bradshaw's last touchdown pass, too.
19:10
SPEAKER_07: Calvin Sweeney.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and we and we did we did talk about this one, like you said, um, in an episode where we chronicled like the final ever games of a bunch of Pittsburgh sports legends.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: We'll link that on our website.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: And and just for some background, you know, Bradshaw had had elbow surgery earlier that year, which ends up sidelining him for the first 14 games of the season.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: But here we are in week 15 against the Jets.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: Bradshaw comes back, and in the second quarter, he leads the Steelers down the field, which sets up this play.
19:45
SPEAKER_04: Steelers with a single setback in Harris.
19:49
SPEAKER_04: Bradshaw.
19:51
SPEAKER_04: dropping back.
19:52
SPEAKER_04: Here comes the rush.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: Fires down right near the goal line.
19:55
SPEAKER_04: It is pulled in by Calvin Sweeney for the touchdown.
19:59
SPEAKER_06: So far, it's like old times the Brad Shaw magic back, and the Steelers are leading 14 to nothing.
20:08
SPEAKER_07: That was it.
20:09
SPEAKER_07: He didn't, I don't think he played the rest of the game, right?
20:11
SPEAKER_02: That was his last ever play.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he re-indures his elbow on that play.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: You can't even tell on the replay.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: He he kind of is shaking his arm a little bit walking off the field, but he's not you know crumpled in a heap like he got you know badly injured.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: And I even watched um uh Ahmad Rashad or whoever the NBC guy was, like interviewed him after the game, and he said, you know, he had some soreness, and you know, we'll we'll evaluate, we'll see what it looks like for next week.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh so they weren't even talking about you know that this was gonna like he was done, but he was done.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: He never sets foot on a NFL field again, and it's it's a really sad end to his amazing career, and then it gets ugly after that because Bradshaw accuses Chuck Noel of rushing him back too early, and there's a lot of animosity between Bradshaw and the Steelers really for like decades to come, right, Steve?
21:02
SPEAKER_07: Uh yeah, until they they brought him back at um what Heinz field for like a Terry Bradshaw day, and he did come back to his credit, but even now it still seems to be there's like this weird like animosity, like he doesn't like Pittsburgh very much.
21:18
SPEAKER_07: So that's Terry for you.
21:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, what are you gonna do?
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: So that that was controversial between Bradshaw and the Steelers, but let's get into some controversies between the Steelers and the Jets.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: And we'll start with a game in 1989.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers are playing at the Meadowlands against the Jets, and this happens.
21:41
SPEAKER_05: There's Werner in motion as Ryan pumps one and has Toon wide open.
21:47
SPEAKER_05: Toon hit hard but has it at the 45 yard line.
21:51
SPEAKER_05: Thomas Everett delivered a blow, but Toon held on to the football, but he is still down on the turf.
21:58
SPEAKER_07: That was things that will
22:00
SPEAKER_02: get you fined for a hundred Alex Yeah yeah the this is Steeler Safety Thomas Everett just destroys jets all pro wide receiver Al Toon and and Toon's pretty seriously concussed but kind of like Steve referenced that's not the controversy because you have to remember back then that was legal yeah yeah it was legal and and in fact Steve it was like celebrated remember like every like you know NFL commercial or NFL films like hardest hits of the year you know that kind of stuff he got he got crushed there and I mean but that's what you're supposed to do to try and separate the man from the ball and you can't do that anymore you almost have to play like more like basketball where you're just going for the ball yeah yeah and and and so that so and to give you an idea what a different time 1989 NFL was after that game a lot of Steelers players credit Everett for knocking out the Jets best player and uh Dalton Hall the Steelers cornerback says quote he knocked Toon all the way back to first grade he was screaming and crying for his mama wow so like you said that would not go over today but back then that was just the norm.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: So again that was not the controversy the controversy actually comes after the hit because Steelers linebacker Greg Lloyd runs over as Toon's lying unconscious on the turf and he drops to the ground and he starts counting him out WWE style.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: That's right yeah oh I forgot about that um and that that yeah that angers a lot of people in New York oh boo hoo I I I mean that was very nice but it was a little tasteless I mean the hit the hit is a hit again it was legal now it's football no one no one was upset at Thomas Everett if from a jet's perspective but him coming over and like counting out the guy like and this is a concussion I mean he could be and you didn't know right he was he was down he was like unconscious and you don't know how seriously he's hurt like imagine if somebody would have you know uh came over and counted out you know Ryan K's ear or somebody that got like seriously hurt so um but for his part for his part Lloyd says quote I was elated I saw his eyes going and he was out so Greg Lloyd's loving it different time a different time Tim a very different time but but again people were still upset about it but but hang on Steve Greg Lloyd's not done because later in the first quarter this he can cuss his Jets quarterback Pat Ryan on this play.
24:42
SPEAKER_06: Oh my Ryan gets out of time he's gonna take a pretty good lick right here it's rather late very late hit.
24:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and uh I don't know whether that was called or not.
25:01
SPEAKER_06: yeah that um that's illegal in pretty much every era even even the 70s I don't think you could have done that yeah I he took he literally like the guy like maybe maybe with slow motion but I don't think it was but Lloyd literally took like five steps he ran five yards and then hit it wasn't like now where it's like the guy's in the air he can't stop in midair like it's so funny how like things go from one extreme to the other like obviously that's a cheap shot and you don't you don't want that.
25:36
SPEAKER_07: But now they've gone the other way where guys are just literally sacking the quarterback and they're like oh you gotta you know cradle him to the ground you can't drive him into the ground like it's a tackle get over it or you can't tackle somebody from behind and drag them down now or it's just dumb.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: If there's one thing I've learned about humanity in general and definitely uh this applies to football Steve we do not do nuance well it's more fun to and people get riled up if you just overreact everything.
26:11
SPEAKER_07: Yeah and that was like I think even in the 70s that would have drawn a flag because like I I know it it's kind of slow motion but at the same time like Greg Lloyd isn't even in the picture when he starts running.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: It's it's yeah the Jets are upset they say it's a cheap shot I think Steve and I would agree looking at that replay.
26:30
SPEAKER_07: But you know I did he get yeah I bet he got fined for that I can't imagine he didn't get fined for that.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Well but regardless without their starting quarterback and best receiver the Jets lose the game 13 to nothing.
26:43
SPEAKER_07: So oh wow I can't see why yeah yeah so that was a controversy in 1989.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: Let's fast forward to the 2000 season where the one and three Steelers are taking on the undefeated Jets in New Jersey.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: I I like how you can like keep making making a point to say they're in New Jersey that's where they play so so yeah one and three Steelers undefeated Jets that seems like a mismatch and it is for the Jets Steelers roll to a dominant 22-3 victory behind a huge game by Jerome Bettis but the controversy in that game is what happens between Jet safety Victor Green and Steelers receiver Heinz Ward.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: So in the third quarter of that game Green breaks up a pass to Ward and then gets up and starts talking trash to him saying like hey you can't come over the middle on me I'll knock your head off blah blah blah well Heinz Ward wasn't exactly the type to back down from a fight.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: So he makes it his mission to just go straight after Green on every running play after that.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: And remember like we said drone bettis had a huge game.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah uh they have a few kind of like after the whistle scrums at one point Green reportedly like tries to plead with Ward.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: He's like hey let's put all this aside and be pros.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: But Ward keeps going after him anyway.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Green then pleads with Plexico Burris to tell Ward to stop it.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: To which Plex says quote I'm not telling him nothing offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbright says quote by the end of the game Green was running away from Heinz on every play I never saw anything like it wow and and Bill Cower says Victor Green became so exasperated with Heinz Ward that he forgot about trying to tackle Jerome Bettis so that the game ends but that's not the end of it.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Green complains to his wife Esther and Esther Green charges after Heinz Ward after the game yelling at him oh my gosh like saying hey you're trying to ruin my husband's career to which Ward calmly replies quote ma'am we were just playing football nice wow I didn't realize I've heard that story before I didn't realize his wife got involved in that yeah so his wife got involved I mean it was it's Victor Green really regretted you know trying to pop and talk trash on Heinz Warren he he thinks he learned his lesson maybe there just a little bit just a little bit all right let's talk about a controversial game that happens in 2003 uh that year neither team is very good they're both five and eight when they meet in the aforementioned state of New Jersey late in the season.
29:33
SPEAKER_02: You know this you just changed your name to the New Jersey Jets they could they could have like a smokestack for a logo and play the Soprano song whenever they come out of the there you go uh so yeah they're playing in New Jersey and because it's the northeast and because it's winter there happens to be a snowstorm for the first part of that game so the field's covered in snow and the Jets win by the thrilling score of six to nothing.
30:03
SPEAKER_07: I remember this game it was horrible.
30:05
SPEAKER_07: It was horrible Tommy Maddox was god-awful if I remember correctly yeah well the the the the Tommy Maddox a lot of people question the Steelers game plan of having him attempt 38 passes in the snow sounds like sounds like a good plan yeah I just remember like you couldn't do anything because it was just like really bad conditions.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: It it was and you know uh the Jets conversely you know they just fed it the ball to Curtis Martin he has a career high 228 yards total yards from scrimmage so he he was a real star in that game and after the game Steelers owner Dan Rooney is furious not because his team lost six to nothing but because of how the Jets handled the weather conditions and if you watch a replay of that game you'll notice something interesting it's basically stopped snowing at the end of the first half yet there are literally like inches of snow piled up for the entire game and it's because they didn't have the proper protocols in place to clear it uh Rooney says quote they didn't have anybody there to do the job they only had one plow it was really bad one plow that's Dan Rooney he says there's no reason why they shouldn't have been able to clear the field at halftime whenever the teams were in the locker room he also notes that in Pittsburgh they have all this equipment they'll hire extra people he cites the playoff game against Cleveland the previous year where it snowed for the entire game yet there was very little actual snow on the field because they kept clearing it they had enough plows and enough people the NFL does launch an investigation after Rooney's comments I don't know where that went probably you know in the foul cabinet slash trash can where a lot of other NFL investigations have gone it's there with the spy gate tapes.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Right exactly uh the the chief executive of the New Jersey Sports and Expedition Authority a guy named George Zofinger I hope it was veto I was really hoping his name would be like hey hey what are you talking about?
32:11
SPEAKER_07: Forget about it the check didn't clear this month do you want me to make Mr.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: Rooney disappear well George George Vito's offinger gives gives like the laziest response ever when question about this.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: He says quote he lost the game he shouldn't go crying about the snow which like come on I mean he wasn't crying about the snow he wasn't saying that the snow lost the game he was upset because you didn't clear it I I I that that's one of my huge pet peeves is when people do that like they deflect instead of respond to like okay why don't you defend you know the actual accusation that they were trying to help the Jets win okay and if that meant leaving six inches of snow on the field then so be it.
33:02
SPEAKER_07: Maybe if you have any more questions about it we got you know veto out back to you know hang you in a meat cooler for a while but I mean explain why you only had one plow explain why you weren't prepared you know I think I I think there's a line from Goodfellas that does describes this very well it's after um Tommy is is hit when he thinks he's gonna be a made man and they tell you know um I can't remember Robert De Niro and you know Ray Leota's character and Ray Leota's character said it was a uh real real grease ball thing it was among the Italians so uh maybe that was it that that was quote Henry Hill not me so yeah yeah maybe maybe that's the explanation I totally I totally think the mob just had money bet on the game and they're like yeah we're we're letting the Jets win six to nothing.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that I don't know that the snow necessarily you know what I mean it wasn't like the Steelers were I I know that like we said Tommy Maddox inexplicably passed the ball a lot in that game but you know it wasn't like the the Steelers it wasn't like the uh 75 AFC championship kind of thing where the Raiders said oh our our game is outside receivers and the Steelers game is Franco and Rocky up the middle like it wasn't that much of a a mismatch I think they just literally were incompetent and and for him to say like oh he's crying because he lost it's like no answer the like answer for why you weren't prepared.
34:32
SPEAKER_07: You sound very Al Davis like right now.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: Well that but that's just that's such a lazy I I just hate that kind of answer.
34:38
SPEAKER_07: It's like it's lazy you're deflecting answer the question of you know what actually happened but whatever I that's the New Jersey sports and expedition authority like like George said forget about it forget about it that would have been a better answer.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: All right another controversy erupts in a 2014 game between the Steelers and Jets uh the Steelers come into this game red hot ben Rothelsberger had thrown 12 touchdown passes in the previous two weeks so remember Steve we did we did the uh top ten Ben Rothesburger games and the number one game that you picked was the back to back six touchdown weeks against the Colts and the Ravens.
35:19
SPEAKER_07: So what happened that was unbelievable.
35:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah so what happened in the in the third week well he threw seven touchdowns that time well he should have because the Jets coming into this game are one and eight you just can't keep up that pace and this is the head case Steelers the days of our Steelers as a urinating tree on the internet so you know they definitely mailed this one in and lost.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah the Steelers lose 20 to 13 typical again Mike Tomlin squads losing to garbage teams but um the the controversy happens at the end of this game so jets quarterback and future steelers quarterback Michael Vick is taking a knee to seal the victory when Steelers safety Mike Mitchell attempts to leap over the line of scrimmage to jar the ball ball jar the ball loose.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay that's ridiculous and and that really angers uh Nick Mangold who's the Jets all pro center and he uh body slams Mitchell to the ground and a a big skirmish ensues and it after they break it up in the final whistle sounds CBS cameras catch Jets coach Rex Ryan yelling bleep you at someone on the Steelers sidelines.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Whether that's Mike Mitchell or Tomlin that's tough to tell I'm gonna have to agree with Rex Ryan on this one.
36:40
SPEAKER_07: That's you know it's just stupid.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah I I mean Nick Mangold says that play was quote dirty and uncalled for Ryan says it was Bush league.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: Mike Tomlin says it was quote not professional and we don't want to play football like that.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: So even Tomlin kind of says you know that's that's we don't we don't want to do that.
37:03
SPEAKER_07: Mitchell for his part says he could care less what the Jets think because Mike Mitchell well as well he should as we all should the Jets with the new the new jersey jets I think yeah yeah yeah I mean that that's that's a little weak.
37:22
SPEAKER_07: I mean the the victory formation play is it's almost like an intentional walk in baseball you know yeah it's just people well at least baseball stopped remember they used to make them throw like four times right yeah if if you would have had if if people would have done this on a regular basis a football probably would have done the same thing.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: You just like you take the automatic knee rather than actually running a play.
37:46
SPEAKER_07: Because you could get guys hurt you could you know I mean it's just and I think nowadays most guys like they just like if you notice like the uh the both teams just kind of stand up like they don't really hit each other.
37:56
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
37:57
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
37:58
SPEAKER_07: So what speaking of that remember um that guy that when Greg Sciano didn't he coach Tampa remember they were trying to do that on the kneel down plays?
38:08
SPEAKER_07: Oh that's right yeah yeah if he brought that from Rutgers I think and they got in trouble for that too because they were doing that too yeah I totally forgot about that.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: You're you're right good memory I totally forgot about that.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: And I think that was before this so Mitchell probably should have known better.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah all right so um that was some controversies let's talk about we'll call this next section like player movement.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: So so we had each team swap quarterbacks this past offseason like we said with Justin Fields going to the Jets and Aaron Rothers coming to Pittsburgh.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: But these two ball clubs actually have a long history of significant players changing sides and we'll start with probably the most famous case of that here.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: No news is perhaps good news for the Steelers and the Neil O'Donnell sweepstakes the Jets have made a better financial offer but the chance of getting back to the Super Bowl is obviously weighing heavily on O'Donnell's mind as of 11 o'clock tonight both offers are on his table but our sources tell us Neil simply can't make up his mind.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: I think Neil had his mind made up yeah Neil Neil Neil does make up his mind essentially and uh picks the Jets and the money uh and and it's a great signing by the Jets because the following season with Neil under center the Jets win uh hang on let me just check my notes here.
39:27
SPEAKER_07: Three games one game oh one game nice one game was that with Rich Cotite still I think he was a very not good coach.
39:37
SPEAKER_07: Yeah but one game after you signed this huge free agent quarterback might go and then I think even the year after with Parcells they only won like they I think they did almost win like six or seven games but remember didn't he start like Henry Burris or somebody weird at quarterback and yeah they did a lot of warriors they all the next year they almost made the playoffs because that was the game where they the last game of the season they played in Detroit and that was Neil going along I can't hear I can't hear right and I think I think if the Jets won they were in the playoffs and Detroit needed to win for them to make the playoffs.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: So they did get better after Parcells and and Neil Neil wasn't like a total well I would say he's a bust given the fact that they signed him to be you know like a Super Bowl quarterback but he wasn't as bad as that first year and then he was a decent backup for Tennessee later uh I think if he stays with the Steelers though he probably has way more success.
40:28
SPEAKER_07: Bob Pi Annie is really young in this clip for podcast people that can't see.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah well I mean this was what 1996 I guess yeah so it's almost 30 years now uh about a decade later it's another big time Steeler released for New York Hall of Fame guard Alan Fanica Oh that was yeah I never thought much of this I never thought that was that much of a loss I like Alan Fanica and he was a great player but it was like this is the end of his career and he he really didn't do much.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah to me it was one of those rare situations where I always thought neither side was wrong.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Like Fanica thought you know he had done a lot for the Steelers he helped them win a Super Bowl he deserved to be well compensated.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers thought Fanica was 32 years old and just wasn't worth another huge you know four four or five year contract.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: So again I don't fault either side in that one and Fannica to your point he only does last two years in New York he does make the Pro Bowl both seasons but I mean he only he only lasts two years.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: I think he made decent money too I'm sure he did yeah yeah and that's again why he left uh he he does end up finishing his career where most stealers seem to finish their careers with the Arizona Cardinals well it is a retirement country so yeah yeah yeah so fast forward another decade and we have a third big Steelers to death's defection and it's this guy Le'Veon Bell I'm going out today I'm going out today I ain't gonna drop today make the money drop today and I'm out like I'm gonna rock today I ain't gonna drop the day I'm gonna make him stop today and make the money compensate Le'Veon Bell is going to make the money compensate compensate for him holding out the entire 2018 season and betting that he would get a huge payday somewhere else.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Enter the Jets I don't did they pay I don't remember how much they I didn't think they paid him that much they paid him a decent amount but definitely not I think it was less than what the Steelers at least in guaranteed money.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: I think it was yeah what the Steelers had actually what he had turned down with the Steelers and he only lasts about a season and a half in New York.
42:45
SPEAKER_07: And he doesn't do I don't think his stats are even all that great yeah no another dynamite signing by the Jets um to I I to his credit Le'Veon Bell later regrets leaving Pittsburgh he says he was acting quote petty so I mean full credit to him for admitting to making a mistake yeah what a he would what a big uh he just what a waste of talent it just we were talking about 2016 championship game and other podcasts against you know the Patriots he he like oh my groin I maybe he was hurt maybe he wasn't 100% but go out there and maybe even at 50% you're better than you know what we had you know it's just it's just so frustrating with him.
43:35
SPEAKER_02: There's there's some players in especially in the NFL I think in every sport but there's some players who are immensely talented uh but just aren't gonna win you championships and he was one of those guys.
43:48
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
43:48
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
43:50
SPEAKER_07: And that was the problem with the killer bee era.
43:54
SPEAKER_07: They just didn't have I don't I can't ever put my finger on it, but there's like an it factor I don't know if it's just I I don't know.
44:03
SPEAKER_07: Like the nineties Steelers didn't have whatever that it I think they had some of it, but maybe it's just because they were just never had that quarterback or yeah.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well spe speaking of it factor guys, um we we just talked about all guys that left Pittsburgh to go to New York.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Do we have any guys that left New York to come to Pittsburgh?
44:28
SPEAKER_07: Hey, you're not gonna you're not gonna cover chemo von Allhofen, who went to the Jets in 2006?
44:33
SPEAKER_02: No.
44:34
SPEAKER_07: Oh, darn.
44:35
SPEAKER_07: Okay, well, that happened.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: I forgot about that actually.
44:39
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: But uh good good on chemo.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: He was a good player, I wouldn't say he was as significant as well.
44:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it was at the end of his career.
44:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: And and there were a few guys that the the other way around that left New York to come to Pittsburgh, but I would say none were more impactful than this guy.
44:59
SPEAKER_03: On third down.
45:03
SPEAKER_03: James Fairdown.
45:11
SPEAKER_07: Probably the best free agent signing in Steeler history.
45:15
SPEAKER_07: Outside of Jerome Bettis.
45:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean Jerome Bettis was a trade.
45:19
SPEAKER_07: Uh oh, so yeah, this is the best.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think that's hard to argue.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, and in the history on James Farrier, he he was a really good inside linebacker at Virginia.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: And so the Jets actually draft him eighth overall in the 1997 draft.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: He was a top 10 draft.
45:37
SPEAKER_07: He was considered a bust in New York.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: And he was this great inside linebacker at Virginia.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: He he doesn't do too well in New York because the Jets promptly move him to outside linebacker.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: And Farrier isn't that good at outside linebacker, so the Jets let him walk when his contract expires, and the Stewart's pick him up, and he goes on to win two Super Bowls with Pittsburgh.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: He's in the Stewart's Hall of Honor.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: He's widely considered, as Steve said, the best free agent signing in Stewart's history.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: So thanks, Jeff.
46:06
SPEAKER_07: He's he's an it guy.
46:07
SPEAKER_07: He that's like another one of those it I don't know what it is about him, but like you showed the interception of Palmer.
46:14
SPEAKER_07: Remember the sack on Peyton Manning at the end of that game?
46:19
SPEAKER_07: That was him.
46:19
SPEAKER_07: That was him.
46:20
SPEAKER_07: Like he I don't know what it is, like he him and chemo was kind of another little bit of not as much.
46:27
SPEAKER_07: Aaron Smith, another it guy.
46:30
SPEAKER_07: I don't I don't know what it is.
46:31
SPEAKER_07: It's not like Troy Palmo or Ben or Bennis or Fanica, like the superstars, but these guys are it guys.
46:39
SPEAKER_07: They're just they're the glue that holds your team together.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Ike Taylor was one of those guys, uh, Keasel, Casey Hampton, um yeah, Lawrence Timmins.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of guys like that that helped win.
46:51
SPEAKER_07: I would say even Lavon Kirkland, even though they didn't win, like Cornell Lake, you know, another guy, Willie Williams.
46:58
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally agree.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: And and you're right, going back to your original point, that that killer be era, you didn't just didn't have enough of those guys.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: All right, so let's wrap up this episode with the two biggest games in Steelers Jets history.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: Both of them are postseason games.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: The first is the 2004 AFC divisional playoffs.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: We've talked about this game before.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers are 15-1 that year.
47:22
SPEAKER_02: They have a rookie quarterback named Ben Rothesberger.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: They have secured home field advantage throughout the entire playoffs.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: The Jets are a wild card team.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh they had shocked the Chargers in overtime in San Diego the week before.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: And they're also led by quarterback Chad Pennington, who many people thought was going to be a Steeler.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you remember that, Steve.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: In the 2000 draft, the Steelers actually have a chance to select Pennington out of Marshall, but they passed on him for the aforementioned Plexico Burris.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh most people thought this game would be pretty easy Steeler victory.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: In fact, they were a nine-point favorite.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: But the Steelers struggle.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Rothwisberger throws a costly pick six in the second half.
48:03
SPEAKER_02: And with two minutes left, the Jets have a chance to kick the go-head field goal, but kicker Doug Bryan hits the crossbar.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: So now the Steelers only need like, I don't know, 20 or 30 yards to kick their own game-winning field goal, but Ben throws another interception, and now Doug Bryan has a second chance to win the game, and this time it's at the buzzer.
48:27
SPEAKER_03: He missed it.
48:33
SPEAKER_03: Let's play some other things.
48:38
SPEAKER_07: 43-yard field goal.
48:40
SPEAKER_07: Back, see, I loved when Heinzfield was impossible to kick a field goal.
48:43
SPEAKER_07: It was such a home field that, you know, I don't understand it.
48:49
SPEAKER_07: How much money is that really making them?
48:51
SPEAKER_07: Like what?
48:52
SPEAKER_07: Maybe a million dollars?
48:54
SPEAKER_07: Maybe.
48:54
SPEAKER_07: What's the operating budget of the Steelers?
48:57
SPEAKER_07: It's got to be over a billion dollars.
48:59
SPEAKER_07: You're talking like not even a percent.
49:02
SPEAKER_07: Uh, don't get me started.
49:03
SPEAKER_02: Steve Steve, this is the NFL.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna by by the time this episode airs, that we're gonna be at like an 18-game schedule.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: Like they are.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna go to an 18-game schedule, which is kind of totally dilute everything.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna get more guys hurt.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: For what?
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, like, when is enough money enough money?
49:24
SPEAKER_07: And the answer is But it does and the product suffers.
49:27
SPEAKER_07: That's the problem, is the product suffers.
49:29
SPEAKER_07: But 18 games, your people are barely watching the games at the end of the year as it is.
49:34
SPEAKER_07: This is gonna be like like who watches any pirates baseball in September this year?
49:40
SPEAKER_07: Who is going to watch any of that crap?
49:43
SPEAKER_07: Probably me, but beyond that, you know what I mean?
49:46
SPEAKER_07: It's just meaningless baseball.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: And guys will get hurt, but well, but people will tune in and people will bet, and people will play fantasy, and it'll it just the machine will keep rolling.
49:58
SPEAKER_07: Like the the they'll But even fantasy football, Tim, you guys you play your championship the week before because it's so bad.
50:05
SPEAKER_07: Like don't most leagues finish up week like whatever two weeks or week because everybody nobody plays the last week.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: It it doesn't they're they'll they'll still do it because it it just it's more money.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: Like the they'll the one of the things that I read this offseason is you know, they they've talked about the NFL, I think, is the only league well, baseball maybe, but the NFL doesn't have a draft lottery, right?
50:30
SPEAKER_02: If you finish in with the worst record, you get the number one pick.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: And there was talk of them implementing a draft lottery just because, not because of like fairness or they're worried about teams tanking, just because they could make it a revenue streaming event.
50:46
SPEAKER_07: So imagine, imagine if in the Oh, so now so now you have like who's gonna be the worst teams next year?
50:53
SPEAKER_07: Tennessee, New York, both New York teams, probably.
50:58
SPEAKER_07: And so they all go into a room and it's like you know, Mark Davis, Woody Johnson, the ghost of Woody Johnson, and in one of the Mai's.
51:08
SPEAKER_07: And the biggest says and Hassle are all in a room, like trying to draw lottery balls or something.
51:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
51:17
SPEAKER_07: With with Goodell.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: So imagine, Steve, it's like February 26th.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, the Super Bowl's the Super Bowl's been over for weeks.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: There's no NFL, there's free agency hasn't started yet.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Oh, but you can put this event on TV and have it be sponsored and even maybe move it to different cities like the direction.
51:37
SPEAKER_02: And then people people can bet on it.
51:39
SPEAKER_02: People can bet on it.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: So so God, they are gonna do this.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: You have to think you have to think the NFL, it doesn't matter how much money they make.
51:48
SPEAKER_02: You have to always be making more.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: So the answer, the the like I said, the answer to the when is enough money, enough money, the answer is never.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: And so for Heinz Field, the the answer, you know, like you said, the open end, that was a that was a real nice advantage.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't matter.
52:03
SPEAKER_02: When you put more seats in, you can make more money.
52:05
SPEAKER_02: That's all that matters.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, back to the 2004 playoffs.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: That game does go into overtime after Doug Bryan misses two field goals.
52:14
SPEAKER_02: Jeff Reed uh does not miss in overtime.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: He kicks a 33-yarder.
52:19
SPEAKER_07: The Stewart went in and I think it was in the open end too, wasn't it?
52:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was the that was the funny thing.
52:24
SPEAKER_02: Doug Bryan missed both those field goals in the closed end.
52:27
SPEAKER_02: Jeff Reed made the field goal in the open end.
52:29
SPEAKER_02: But I don't I don't know that I think just having the wind, right?
52:33
SPEAKER_07: It wasn't so much well, the grass was terrible.
52:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the turf was bad, yeah.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Jeff Reed famously later gets cut because uh, amongst other things, he bashes the field.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: So uh so that was 2004.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh these two teams meet again in the postseason, uh, and again it's at Heinz Field.
52:56
SPEAKER_02: It's six years later, this time I remember the AFC championship.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, once again, no one expected the Jets to be here, but led by Mark Buckfumble Sanchez.
53:07
SPEAKER_07: Hey, that's a shame.
53:10
SPEAKER_07: That's a shame that that guy is known for that.
53:13
SPEAKER_07: He wasn't that bad of a quarterback.
53:14
SPEAKER_07: He beat him.
53:15
SPEAKER_07: No, he wasn't.
53:16
SPEAKER_07: He beat Penn State handily in the Rose Bowl, so I will always respect him for that.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and they had actually been in the AFC Championship game the year before.
53:25
SPEAKER_07: Uh this was the Rex Ryer, Rex Ryan, Darrell Revis, really good defense years.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep, it was.
53:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they they had beaten the Patriots in the divisional round.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's more than the Stewards could ever say.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: That Stewart never could knock the Patriots out of the playoffs.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: So they come to Pittsburgh with the chance of playing in the Super Bowl for the first time in like a hundred years.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, as Steve said, the Jets are coached by Rex Ryan.
53:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Rex Ryan had actually lost the AFC Championship game at Heinz Field two years earlier as the defensive coordinator of the Ravens.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: So he's looking to avenge that defeat.
54:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the Steelers are having a weird season in 2010.
54:03
SPEAKER_02: I won't go into that in detail because I really think it needs its own episode.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: Like that season, people forget how nuts that was.
54:10
SPEAKER_02: That was the year Ben got suspended.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh a bunch of other weird things happened that year.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: But needless to say, they have the opportunity to go to their third Super Bowl in six seasons, and in the first half, it's all Stewards.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: They put together some long, kind of like defense-killing drives, they take a 17 to nothing lead, and then right before halftime, this happens.
54:31
SPEAKER_03: Well, what the Jets have really got to do here, Jim, is they gotta find a way to get out of this first half without giving up more.
54:38
SPEAKER_03: Did not give more.
54:39
SPEAKER_03: Third and 17.
54:42
SPEAKER_03: Hit when he throws it.
54:43
SPEAKER_03: Ball is out.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: That is William Gay picking it up.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: Gay is in for a touchdown.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: Sanchez is still down.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: He was hit by Ike Taylor.
54:55
SPEAKER_02: To listen to Phil Sims.
55:00
SPEAKER_07: Phil Sims was still doing the games back then.
55:03
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh yeah, he was until Tony and Roman, that wasn't until I want to say maybe six, seven years ago.
55:10
SPEAKER_02: It was pretty recent.
55:11
SPEAKER_07: Phil I don't think Phil Sims is even on the pregame or postgame anymore.
55:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
55:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that was that was nuts because the Jets had their ball, like their own 25 there.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: They they they there was like a minute left.
55:24
SPEAKER_02: I get what they were trying to do.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: They were trying to like, okay, if we can just get a few more halftime, it won't be as bad.
55:30
SPEAKER_02: 17 to 3 is a little better than 17 to nothing.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: But then they they you know, Sanchez gets hit, he fumbles, William Gay, who's always Johnny on the spot, runs it into the end zone, and at that point it really looks like, man, this is just gonna be a blowout, which is so rare for like the Steelers in a big game to just you know crush somebody.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: But of course, never that easy.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: In the second half, the Jets start to mount a comeback.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: One guy we didn't mention in the section we talked about earlier where we talked about guy swapping teams was Santonio Holmes.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
56:01
SPEAKER_07: He's on the Jets, isn't it?
56:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he he you know, and Santonio Holmes, of course, the the Super Bowl hero for the Steelers, but yeah, in this game he's playing for the Jets.
56:11
SPEAKER_02: He has a huge 45-yard touchdown in the second half to get the Jets back into it.
56:17
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers, meanwhile, keep making mistakes.
56:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh Ben throws a bad pick.
56:21
SPEAKER_02: The center snaps the ball too high for a safety.
56:24
SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, the Jets are only down by five in the game's final minutes.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: So here's the situation.
56:31
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers have the ball at the two-minute warning.
56:34
SPEAKER_02: It's third and six, and the Jets are out of timeouts.
56:36
SPEAKER_02: So again, the Steelers have a five-point lead, but it's third and six.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh a first down ends the game because the Jets are out of timeouts.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: If you run the ball, you eat up 40 seconds of the clock, but the Jets get the ball back with, you know, about a minute 20 or so left.
56:51
SPEAKER_07: Plenty of time, yeah, plenty of time.
56:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, plenty of time, but no timeouts, and the Steelers have a good defense.
56:56
SPEAKER_02: If you pass for the first down and it's incomplete, now the Jets get the ball back with a full two minutes.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: So what do you call here if you're the Steelers?
57:04
SPEAKER_02: Let's find out.
57:11
SPEAKER_03: And they are looking for now.
57:15
SPEAKER_03: Throws it a catch.
57:18
SPEAKER_03: The catch to Clanshot.
57:22
SPEAKER_03: He had the big one last week, the lone gainer to set up the winner.
57:26
SPEAKER_03: This time picks up the first down.
57:30
SPEAKER_07: I totally forgot about it.
57:31
SPEAKER_07: I I totally forgot about that game.
57:34
SPEAKER_07: But like that wasn't if you have a veteran quarterback that can be careful with the football, that's not a bad play call to him.
57:40
SPEAKER_07: Because like there were two jets closing in on him.
57:43
SPEAKER_07: Now Ben is ballsy enough to throw that.
57:46
SPEAKER_07: Like most quarterbacks probably just take a sack there.
57:49
SPEAKER_07: And you still burn, like you said, like 30, 40 seconds off the clock.
57:55
SPEAKER_07: So as long as that pass isn't incomplete, you're okay.
58:00
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think or you fumble or throw an interception, you know, but he found Brown.
58:06
SPEAKER_07: But that was his forte, like they said, like Tim Philson said, once he gets out of the pocket, he likes that back.
58:11
SPEAKER_07: And he that's what Ben made a Hall of Fair Hall of Fame career on was plays like that.
58:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think Tomlin one thing about Tomlin in his career, he he will usually gamble in those situations.
58:25
SPEAKER_02: And I I think he's smart doing it because honestly, like giving the the ball back to the other team, it's just so gut-wrenching because by that point your defense is a little gassed.
58:36
SPEAKER_07: Like well, I I think too, like with the way the rules are, you're just leaving it up to whatever whim the NFL feels like.
58:44
SPEAKER_07: Because it's gonna come down to a Hail Mary or a weird play on fourth down, and the you know, the NFL be like, oh, well, you see, we changed the rules and it's blah blah.
58:54
SPEAKER_07: You know, it's like just win it at the two-minute warning.
58:57
SPEAKER_07: And if you don't, then you have to play it out.
59:00
SPEAKER_07: But as long as Ben just doesn't throw an incompletion or an interception or fumble, you're fine.
59:08
SPEAKER_07: You just take the sack.
59:09
SPEAKER_07: You know, let's say Brown just fall down and take a sack, and like you said, you've accomplished the same thing as running the ball.
59:16
SPEAKER_07: Like losing those five or ten yards really isn't that big of a deal.
59:19
SPEAKER_07: They were in a part of the field, it really didn't matter.
59:21
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
59:22
SPEAKER_02: So you have to have a lot of trust in your quarterback too.
59:25
SPEAKER_02: But they they there were other times the um the playoff game against Kansas City six or seven years later ended the same way where they uh they had the same situation and they they gambled and went for a first down instead of giving Kansas City the ball back, and they won that game too.
59:40
SPEAKER_02: So I I even if it fails, I think it's the the right call.
59:45
SPEAKER_07: Because the rules, it's because the way the rules are.
59:47
SPEAKER_07: They they favor the offense.
59:49
SPEAKER_07: They want that ending.
59:50
SPEAKER_07: They want that TV ending with you know, here's the guy kicking a field goal or during a touchdown, and Patrick Mahomes now can do more state farm commercials.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: And at that point in the game, the offense is gonna have more energy than the defense.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_07: And if you get into a rhythm, yeah, and the offense knows where it's going, and the defense doesn't, you know.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_02: So that game, if if the Steelers just do a safe running play there, that game is a gut-wrenching, you know, last-minute drive by the Jets where they pro I I bet what happens is they get down because Steelers are probably playing back, they would have got down to like the 20 and then would have had Well, they would have had shots at the end zone, yeah, because it was five points.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: And so then you're you're like holding your breath for like however many plays they they try to get into the end zone, and maybe the Steelers still hold them off, or maybe they don't.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: Like that's the hard thing.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_02: So uh anyway, didn't have to worry about it.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_02: Steelers end up taking knees, go to the Super Bowl.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh Antonio Brown's the one that made that catch.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_02: And at the time, he was a little known, you know, like fourth string receiver because uh he that was his rookie year.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: He wasn't really in the lineup that much, but uh that was kind of a harbinger of things to come and making big plays like that.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_02: Rex Ryan slamming his headset down to the turn to the ground after that play is another memorable interest.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_07: Because they kind of had him like they didn't have a they didn't play bad defense on the play.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_07: Ben just made a play.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean Yeah, they did.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_02: They played they played really good defense.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like they were like had everybody up the line expecting a run.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, they got good pressure on him, he had to scramble.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh they almost had him, they almost had that play, and and so yeah, Rex, Rex, poor Rex.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_02: I always thought he was actually a pretty good coach.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_07: The guy the his players always played hard for him, and he was pretty good on defense.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_07: He just never had a like a really over-the-top quarterback.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_07: And like, I think it's unfair.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_07: Like Mark Sanchez wasn't as bad as people remember, or maybe he was.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_07: I don't know.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_07: I just thought he got led that stupid butt fumble, and everybody that's all anybody remembers.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think the problem for Sanchez and and Rex Ryan, it's the same problem for uh Aaron Rodgers and everybody else.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_02: It's you played for the Jets.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: They're a garbage franchise who, like I said, adds nothing of value to the National Football League.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: So that's where we'll end things.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_02: Thanks everybody so much for listening.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you can catch us on Facebook.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we have a nice little community there where we do a lot of reminiscing, not just about these episodes, but about a lot of other Pittsburgh sports memories.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: So join us there.
1:02:31
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1:02:33
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1:02:35
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1:02:37
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1:02:40
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