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Girls Who Game, A.I., & Empathy: Rethinking EdTech with Dr. Nekia Becerra · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to edtech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top edtech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Hey, welcome to the
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Integrate This EdTech podcast. I'm David Berner,
0:31
joined by co -host Jeremy Micla. And today we
0:34
have with us Dr. Nikia Visera. And Nikia is education
0:38
strategist and skilling program manager at Dell
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and public school educator and advocate. And
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so we're super happy to have you join us for
0:46
the podcast. Welcome. Awesome. Thank you so much
0:50
for having me today. Yeah. And if you could kind
0:53
of just start us off like, we know you're at
0:56
Dell now. But you've had many experiences prior
0:59
to that. And so can you kind of walk us through
1:01
your journey from the beginning? Absolutely.
1:06
So I always start with I am the child of educators.
1:10
Both my mother and father have careers in the
1:12
education space. And so from a very young age,
1:15
I knew I wanted to be a teacher. And so I started
1:18
my journey in the classroom as a fourth grade
1:21
math teacher. absolutely loved it. And I worked
1:25
through the district being a campus administrator.
1:29
My favorite job in the district was being a technology
1:31
design coach, where we train teachers how to
1:34
implement technology in their classrooms in a
1:36
purposeful way. And then from there, I worked
1:39
in the academics department helping to lead all
1:42
of the different divisions alongside the chief
1:44
academic officer. And currently at Dell, I am
1:47
an education strategist. I've also had Other
1:50
hats at Dell such as the global skilling program
1:53
education strategist Where I manage the programs
1:56
that were inside of the k -12 space at public
1:59
school districts And other school systems and
2:02
school communities around the united states and
2:05
canada Okay, and you've had uh, you know some
2:09
time in the classroom as well. Can you talk a
2:11
little bit about um, how that kind of shaped
2:14
how you view things now and your approach to
2:18
more the corporate ed tech side compared to the
2:22
classroom, basically asking how do you apply
2:25
those things that you learn in the classroom
2:27
to what you do now? Absolutely. So a long time
2:31
ago, I had a mentor say that in any experience
2:33
or job that you have, you need to take some of
2:36
those skills and you have to move forward with
2:38
them. So I have carried the skills I learned
2:41
as a classroom teacher from way back when to
2:44
all the way to today. And the experience I will
2:48
say is the classroom is a student -centered space.
2:52
So everything we do as educators should be grounded
2:55
in what is best for our learners. And so as a
2:58
classroom teacher, it wasn't just a Ms. Nakia
3:02
show. It was what am I responsible for these
3:05
students to learn and how do I engage them and
3:08
include their voice in that learning experience?
3:11
So I would say currently I work with a lot of
3:14
different school district leaders and educators
3:16
that are still in the classroom in front of students
3:19
every day. And the number one thing I ask is
3:21
what do you want for your students? What is the
3:24
outcome? We want them to be successful. open
3:26
them to opportunities. And so we make sure that
3:30
any decision that is made for what goes on in
3:33
the space is focused directly towards our, our
3:36
youngest learners. Did you feel like, um, as
3:40
you were going through the different positions
3:42
that, that you've had, like, what did that path
3:46
look like for someone who hasn't really ever
3:48
considered a path like that? Um, there's this
3:51
Ted talk I talk about all the time. It's called
3:53
squiggly careers. And it just talks about going
3:58
from one place to another. What are those transferable
4:00
skills? And the number one thing you need to
4:03
be is flexible, adaptable, and recognizing that
4:07
being a lifelong learner, it's something that
4:11
you have to practice and live by. It's incredibly
4:14
important to be open to learning new ideas, listening
4:18
to what other people say. I recognize very early
4:22
on, I am not the expert in the room. And the
4:25
smartest person in the room is the room. And
4:28
so I think for educators who are trying to navigate
4:31
what it looks like to go from the classroom and
4:33
into this corporate education ed tech space,
4:36
they need to be thinking creatively and outside
4:39
of the box. Like, what does it take? for me as
4:43
a teacher, right? I have to lesson plan. I have
4:46
to communicate with parents. I have to communicate
4:48
with the community members and stakeholders.
4:51
All of those things go from the classroom and
4:53
into the corporate space, but you're just talking
4:55
to different people. the output product or the
4:58
outcome product is for a different audience.
5:00
And so all of those skills you have in the classroom
5:03
as a campus administrator, as a superintendent,
5:07
all of that is transferable into the corporate
5:09
workspace. I would say be confident, own what
5:13
you know and who you are, and then just be open
5:16
and willing to learn new things, take the initiative,
5:19
meet with other people and really just step outside
5:21
of your comfort zone. OK, and I want to we want
5:26
to get to know you a little bit more professionally
5:29
and as well personally, too. But so we're going
5:31
to kind of go into a little brief lightning around
5:33
here. And what first question is, what was the
5:38
subject that you were most passionate about teaching
5:40
when you were in the classroom? That's a great
5:43
question. Science. So I was the math teacher,
5:47
but I did have the opportunity to teach science
5:50
to the kiddos at times. And so just showing them
5:54
how the world works and all of those little intricate
5:56
pieces, super fun. The kids loved it. Hands -on
5:59
learning can happen so easily in a science classroom.
6:05
All right. How about this? Minecraft or another
6:08
game? What's your go -to when it's on your own
6:11
time? Yes. So this is a very hard question because
6:15
I am a gamer. So I'm going to say the game right
6:17
now is Tamagotchi Life. I got it for my niece
6:21
for her birthday. And so I have just been taking
6:23
care of my own little community and all of the
6:26
characters in my Tamagotchi world are people
6:29
in my family. And so I love when folks come over
6:32
and I get to show them what their little avatar
6:34
looks like. With all the different experiences
6:39
that you have and what you're doing and working
6:42
on currently in your role with Dell, what's one
6:45
word that you think would describe what's missing
6:48
from most conversations about the future of education?
6:53
Yeah, this is a very important question. This
6:57
week I talked to a bunch of educators in a school
6:59
district. And it would be like the humanity component,
7:03
the humanistic component when we think about
7:06
technology, because we're talking about all of
7:09
the tools and all of the way that technology
7:10
is changing rapidly. But at the end of the day,
7:13
we need critical thinkers, people who can reason,
7:16
people who can communicate effectively with others.
7:18
And so I think we always need to center that
7:21
conversation around what does this mean for our
7:24
learners? What does this mean for the human contributor
7:26
to be an operator? and architect of the tool
7:31
versus the tool, teaching to the tool being the
7:34
most important component. How does the human
7:36
integrate into all of that? So when you're not
7:41
focused on education and you're not gaming, I
7:44
hear you're also quite the artist. What kind
7:48
of styles do you dabble in and what's your favorite
7:50
medium? So I am a collector of hobbies, and I
7:56
recently have been very into embroidery. It's
7:58
the hobby I've had the longest. But this week,
8:02
I am very much so into learning how to crochet.
8:05
And I've been taking classes at the local library,
8:07
and I just run across the street to my neighbor's
8:09
house and sit on the porch. So I spend a lot
8:12
of time doing my embroidery, watercolor, diamond
8:16
art, you name it. I always look at things and
8:18
I'm like, I can make that. All right, and in
8:24
Utah and Austin, right? I did. And then are you
8:29
still in Austin currently? I am. I'm still in
8:33
Austin, Texas. I absolutely love it here. I don't
8:36
know if I can move away. What's the best food
8:40
spot here? Now this is a very hard question.
8:45
because there are a lot of really, really good
8:47
foods and like what category are we looking at?
8:51
But for right now, I will say Diaz de Diaz, 10
8:55
out of 10. It is a taco restaurant and the tacos
8:59
are so good. It's the closest thing I've had
9:02
to like Mexico City in America. Diaz de Diaz,
9:05
hands down, delicious. I have to remember that
9:09
one. How about David and I are going to have
9:12
a conference tomorrow and you're going to be
9:14
our keynote speaker. So as you're walking out
9:17
onto that stage to get the crowd all fired up,
9:20
what's going to be that walk -up song that's
9:22
going to play? And be careful about this because
9:26
David puts together a Spotify playlist with all
9:29
of our guest's answers. So. This is. Be one of
9:35
my favorite questions as a former athlete. Um,
9:38
it today is bring them out by TI. It's my hype
9:42
song. Um, absolutely love it. And the second
9:46
option I would say could be Dolly Parton's nine
9:50
to five. Two very different things that that's
9:58
a that's a hard question because as the teacher
10:01
was Dolly Parton every day speaking its TI So
10:05
they'll they'll both get added but just saying
10:08
yeah, it'll be the second. That's the only the
10:10
second TI song that's on there. So Okay, nice.
10:13
What's the first one? It's a new it's the new
10:18
one. I can't remember it off top. Oh, let them
10:20
know So, Niki, I'm kind of getting us a little
10:28
bit back on track here after we digress for a
10:31
little while, right? I was reading and you wrote
10:34
in a piece in Ed Week, where they quoted you
10:38
here or you quoted the quote attributed to you
10:41
here, talking about some ideas about education
10:48
and technology and learning. And you say it's
10:51
not about the technology until it's about the
10:53
idea of blurring the lines between living and
10:56
learning. What do you mean by that? Yeah, that
11:01
sounds so poetic. I'm glad that that was off
11:04
the top of my head. But really, that just means
11:07
in a classroom, there should be mirrors and windows.
11:11
The student should see themselves represented
11:14
in those learning experiences, and then they
11:17
should hear things that are outside of their
11:19
day -to -day lives so that they're exposed to
11:22
things that they might not have experienced.
11:24
on their own with their families so that they
11:27
know those different opportunities exist, right?
11:29
And so as educators, I truly believe we are prepping
11:33
students to be whatever they want to be. And
11:36
in the age of technology, we really can open
11:39
those four doors of the classroom. We really
11:42
can bring in experts to talk to our students.
11:45
If a kid decides that they want to know what
11:47
it looks like at the Great Wall of China, they
11:49
are able to go and see what that looks like through
11:52
the power of technology. And so for me, it's
11:55
just ensuring that students can see themselves
11:59
reflected in those experiences and see others
12:02
reflected in their learning experiences. So like,
12:06
I think that's a really good metaphor here, the
12:08
windows and the mirrors that you can, you could
12:11
picture yourself in whatever role that you would
12:13
like to be, but yet at the same time, the window
12:16
is open so that empathy lens can perhaps come
12:19
in and you can start to learn a little bit more
12:22
about the experiences of others through that
12:25
as well. And I think just part of that, if that
12:29
comes back on the teacher, how can a teacher
12:33
kind of establish a culture in their classroom
12:36
so that the windows and the mirrors are both
12:38
available to their students? Absolutely. Empathy
12:42
is huge, right? We can talk about educational
12:45
technology all day long, but at first the number
12:48
one job of a school district side of their student
12:52
outcomes and achievements is to keep the kids
12:55
safe, right? And so then you have to be met both
12:58
physically, mentally and emotionally. I like
13:00
to say I taught pre -K for just a little bit.
13:04
It has special place in my heart, but it wasn't
13:05
the place for me. And a huge thing about pre
13:09
-K is learning through play and using their imagination.
13:14
And Maxine Green has done work about the importance
13:17
of having an imagination because it's the foundation
13:20
to being empathetic. It's the foundation to having
13:23
the ability to think what it's like to live in
13:26
somebody else's shoes. And so I would say in
13:29
a classroom, you develop basically a family.
13:33
As a teacher, I worried about my students before
13:36
I worried about the content. How was your weekend?
13:39
do you need a hug, handshake, or high five, right?
13:42
And the littles, they all need a hug every single
13:45
day. And I love it. I'll give you the extra hug
13:46
that you need. But it's really just modeling
13:50
to your students that you truly care about their
13:52
overall well -being. And then you're teaching
13:55
those skills to your students to care about the
13:57
well -being of their peers. And so if one of
14:00
our friends is hurt, We're all hurting and what
14:03
are we going to do to lift our friend up? As
14:05
a former athlete, I am like, we are a team and
14:08
I live by that mindset. I used all of the coaching
14:11
analogies in my classroom, but it really is just
14:14
building that safe community for the kiddos to
14:17
be vulnerable, express their needs and then support
14:20
each other. And do you think, is there a, is
14:24
there a role for Ed technology or Ed tech somewhere
14:27
in there or is it, you still need those relationships
14:31
first? before you can use that technology, or
14:35
maybe even in a way, can EdTech be part of that
14:39
social -emotional learning process for students
14:41
as well? Or is it there for the younger teachers,
14:46
maybe just to focus on that personal relationship
14:49
too? Yeah, I think there's a possibility, right?
14:53
You know, we're seeing education technologies
14:55
change every single day, but it is very much
14:58
so a humanistic component. of education experience.
15:02
I need to teach a student how to collaborate
15:04
with their peer, how to communicate effectively,
15:07
how to respectfully disagree, right? I don't
15:11
think that you can get those skills in a true,
15:14
genuine, and authentic way through the technology
15:17
as you would speaking to an actual human. And
15:21
so I really do think that there are some things
15:24
that we just need to do human to human. And then
15:27
we have to have that critical conversation of,
15:30
is this something I want to enhance with technology?
15:35
It's not something that technology can replace
15:38
the relational skill building between human and
15:40
human. Nikia, I want to talk a little bit about
15:46
what some of that looks like in practice, especially
15:49
with one program that you worked on and with
15:53
is Girls Who Game. And so can you talk a little
15:57
bit about, first of all, for those who don't
15:59
know what that is, that initiative, could you
16:03
just explain that and then what that kind of
16:06
looks like, being involved with that? Absolutely.
16:11
So. Microsoft and Intel and Dell Technologies,
16:15
we founded this program together. But as education
16:18
strategists, we recognize the need for increasing
16:22
the pipeline of women in STEM. So in Girls Who
16:25
Game, we use Minecraft for education to teach
16:28
skills such as collaboration, communication,
16:32
leadership, self -identity. knowing who you are
16:35
and owning it and being able to effectively communicate
16:37
that to others. And so we're teaching the soft
16:40
skills, those critical skills, the creativity
16:42
through an engaging platform. So we provide girls
16:46
with real -world challenges. They have to build
16:49
out their solution in Minecraft for education
16:52
and then communicate their solution to judges
16:56
around the world. volunteers who watch all of
16:59
their submissions, provide them with feedback,
17:01
and then the girls then can get ranked first,
17:04
second or third, depending on the model that
17:06
you're in. We also recognize that these are skills
17:10
that are valuable for anyone. And so we have
17:13
the same program online, you know, publicly available
17:17
with our partnership with Discovery Education.
17:20
And so you can go online and all of this is open
17:22
source curriculum that teachers can access at
17:25
no cost to use. in their classroom with students,
17:28
but it is another engaging way to teach those
17:31
human relational skills. I am hearing from a
17:36
lot of educators that kids don't know how to
17:39
talk to each other. Kids don't know how to work
17:41
together. And so we have to be very mindful of
17:44
what experiences we're creating in the classroom
17:47
so that students can learn those skills to prepare
17:50
them for the workforce. At the end of the day,
17:53
we want them to be successful post -secondary,
17:57
valuable, contributing members of society. And
18:00
so we need to make sure that we are having that
18:02
whole wraparound approach, the academic component,
18:05
the integration of education technology for purposeful
18:09
consumption. versus passive consumption, and
18:12
then all of those other pieces that trickle into
18:14
that education experience. As educators, we just
18:18
got to tie it all together, which is not as easy
18:21
as it sounds. Yeah, and I like the idea. I've
18:26
seen some of the different Minecraft projects
18:28
that have been done before. I can't remember
18:32
everything about it, but one of the really cool
18:34
ones that I saw was that Students Headbuilt was
18:37
like a Recycling like recycling water system
18:41
or something like that where it was like a it
18:43
was basically like a whole community and there
18:44
was like this thing that Recycled water and it
18:46
provided all these different things throughout
18:48
this minecraft space, right? Yeah, it was shown
18:52
to us by Microsoft or by the minecraft and education
18:58
people so So that's pretty cool. It's incredible
19:02
what they're thinking of and using the emerging
19:05
technologies to create their solutions. Like
19:08
we have a semester long program for these students
19:11
and there's the third level of the program. There's
19:15
multiple levels but that third level is the e
19:17
-sports level where they are solving those problems
19:20
in real time. Many 10 -minute challenges and
19:24
then a series of challenges where everybody's
19:26
watching them. create these solutions. And the
19:29
ideas are so incredible that I'm like, the future
19:32
is so bright, right? One of the challenging that
19:35
you're referencing is the way that we as human
19:38
beings are consuming things on our planet. In
19:41
the future, it's going to take three planets
19:44
worth of resources to sustain life currently
19:47
as we know it. So how are we going to solve for
19:49
that problem? And when they're thinking about
19:51
our water consumption, how can we use water in
19:54
a more conservative way so that we do have this
19:57
resource and it can last longer than our current
20:00
usage of these resources? So it's an incredible
20:04
program. Yeah, and it's cool that like offer
20:08
those opportunities for students to think like
20:10
outside of their space a bit with within. I mean,
20:13
they get to play around in that Minecraft world,
20:15
but really think about real world problems and
20:19
solutions to those problems and I'm curious and
20:21
I'm kind of putting you on the spot a little
20:22
bit but is there anything that you remember like
20:26
specific project that some students did that
20:29
you can remember that was really interesting
20:32
or like you were kind of blown away by? Yeah
20:35
so an example that I like to tell folks about
20:38
is the use of AI cameras and so the community
20:44
had a trash problem and the students were able
20:48
to use AI cameras to see the amount of trash
20:52
that was left on the ground, the different types
20:54
of trash to determine what type of receptacle
20:57
to put in that space. And so they determined
21:01
that if you have spaces for people to put their
21:03
recycling, their compost or just their overall
21:06
trash into the right containers, there would
21:10
be less trash on the ground. And so they were
21:12
using data and analytics to look at what types
21:15
of trash was on the ground to determine the best
21:18
thing to use. And then the other piece is the
21:20
communication piece of educating folks about
21:23
the different types of receptacles that are there,
21:26
how to use them and how it takes better care
21:28
of our community. Yeah, that's cool. And as you
21:32
kind of witnessed some of that take place, what
21:35
what are the things that you've noticed about
21:38
students that shift in them over the course of
21:41
taking on something like that or going through
21:43
that process. Like when you actually look at
21:45
the kids themselves, what have you seen that
21:47
like the skills they picked up on or the ways
21:49
that it changes? Yeah, the number one thing you
21:53
see is confidence. These are young children who
21:56
are able to articulate what they have done. They
22:00
are able to say, hey, I need you to not interrupt
22:03
because I want to hear this other person's idea,
22:05
right? just to in a respectful way. They are
22:09
engaged. Teachers are talking about how the students
22:12
are coming to school more consistently and regularly
22:15
so that they can participate in these types of
22:18
extracurricular learning opportunities. And so
22:21
I think that if we can expose students to these
22:25
STEM careers, to folks in the STEM space, we
22:28
have a mentorship component with the gallery
22:31
where folks in the industry talk about themselves,
22:33
what they do and their journey to getting there
22:35
we can continue to expose these girls to those
22:39
jobs and sometimes you see a shift at the beginning
22:42
of this is what I want to be when I grow up at
22:44
the beginning of the program to this is what
22:46
I want to be by the end of the program because
22:48
they've learned about different jobs and know
22:51
what it takes to get there and now I can see
22:53
myself doing this type of job. So it's the visibility,
22:57
it's the confidence, it's their ability to communicate
22:59
and to lead each other into a successful solution.
23:06
One of the things that I listening to you talk
23:09
here kind of popped into my head connected some
23:13
dots here like you seem to be talking through
23:16
very much and when you gave those examples, especially
23:19
some design thinking processes here. where, you
23:22
know, even when you about the AI camera with
23:26
the recycling and, you know, identifying there's
23:29
a problem here and then, you know, talking and
23:32
discussing and thinking about different solutions
23:35
to that problem. And the same thing with Minecraft
23:38
or with other gaming platforms that, you know,
23:41
you're working through these real scenarios.
23:43
You're learning to collaborate with others. You're
23:46
developing potential solutions. You're testing
23:48
those out. You're finding out what works, what
23:50
doesn't work. You're going back to the drawing
23:52
board and you're reiterating it again and again
23:55
until you're ready to unleash something. I know
23:59
it's intentional, but why is that design thinking
24:03
process so important to what you're trying to
24:07
do? Because we need to teach students to fail
24:11
fast. We need to let them know that it's okay
24:15
to have these big ideas and to try it and then
24:18
it doesn't work. It's not the end of the world.
24:20
It's not the end of the world. You can have this
24:22
big idea and it might not work. Well, let's go
24:25
back to the drawing board and let's fix it. Let's
24:26
determine where it's not working. And so I encourage
24:30
folks to allow students to have that good struggle,
24:34
right? You need to be able to think critically
24:37
and over time. it's so important through this
24:40
process to learn how all of these different pieces
24:43
work together, right? That effective struggle.
24:47
And so I just say that it's so intentional because
24:51
they need to learn to fail fast. And that when
24:53
you have an idea and it doesn't work out, think
24:55
of your next best idea and keep it moving. Right.
25:01
And I'm picturing now a teacher in a classroom
25:04
here that might struggle with some of these ideas
25:08
and being able to apply them. One, because to
25:12
them, it appears that it's taking more time.
25:15
And then the time is taking away from other standards
25:19
that they need to make sure that they meet. It's
25:23
rather ambiguous I guess maybe might be a good
25:27
word that they don't have a clear idea of the
25:31
direction that every student is going to go every
25:33
minute of every hour of their teaching and and
25:36
I think at the same time you know they also don't
25:40
want to be looked upon as failing and if their
25:43
students are you know measuring up and their
25:45
ideas aren't working does that then reflect back
25:48
on the teacher You know, is that something you
25:51
think that many teachers struggle with and what
25:53
can they do to maybe get past that so they can
25:58
set up an environment in their in their classrooms
26:00
where kids are allowed to fail fast? Absolutely.
26:05
That's an excellent question. And so for me,
26:08
that's when I think of competency -based learning
26:10
and project -based learning, where students have
26:12
the opportunity to demonstrate their understanding
26:15
in multiple ways. In that question, I also hear
26:18
the importance of differentiation. Those teachers
26:21
are the second best expert to that child. You
26:24
know, I truly believe that in most scenarios,
26:27
your parent, they know their children best. And
26:30
then your teacher is responsible for the differentiation
26:32
component, which is very difficult having a classroom
26:35
full of students and all of these kids learn
26:37
in different ways and are at different levels
26:39
and how do you navigate that right and so that's
26:42
sometimes where we can think of how can technology
26:46
enhance this experience in the classroom what
26:49
can i do as an educator to figure out which tools
26:51
can help me to be more efficient and then maybe
26:54
i change the model of the way that i provide
26:56
instruction in my classroom am i doing a station
27:00
or am I doing whole teach? Is whole teach effective
27:04
when I know that the kids are in so many different
27:06
places? And then how do I look at the additional
27:08
resources available to me in my school community
27:11
to possibly bring in some of those resources
27:14
to enhance the learning? And so this is where
27:17
this is a very broad response because every classroom
27:23
is different. Every school community is different.
27:26
And so this is the time where now as a teacher,
27:29
I gotta do the design thinking process for my
27:32
learning experience with students and modeling
27:35
out loud. So today I did this lesson, guys, I
27:40
expected it to go like this. And that just didn't
27:42
go the way I wanted to because of how the children
27:45
demonstrated their learning with their exit ticket
27:48
that day, right? And so tomorrow we're gonna
27:50
try it again, but we're gonna do some things
27:52
differently. And so. I also think teachers are
27:56
very hard on themselves and they have to remember
27:58
to give themselves grace. You are doing one of
28:01
the hardest jobs on the planet and you are responsible
28:05
for so many things and they have to remember
28:08
to give themselves grace, to take care of themselves
28:11
first, to be the best educator they could be
28:13
in the classroom. Yeah. And I think that's a
28:16
great point to make. I love how you said that,
28:18
that we need to start giving ourselves a little
28:20
bit more of that grace as we do it. Do you think
28:23
is there is there a place for AI for a teacher
28:25
to be able to do some of that work to bring some
28:28
Efficiency to what they do it and make it feel
28:31
a little less stressful at times To be able to
28:34
help them differentiate and to provide those
28:36
learning experiences that they want for their
28:38
students Absolutely. So, you know, I this is
28:42
an example of we as humans are the prompt engineers
28:46
for the tool And so it is as simple as saying
28:49
saying the problem You know, hello, this is the
28:54
problem that I want to address in my classroom.
28:57
These are some of the things I've tried. What
28:59
would you suggest I do? Maybe create an outcome
29:02
of the most simplest approach to the most difficult
29:05
approach to implement to solve this issue, right?
29:08
Using a tool as a thought partner to help you
29:12
create systems for improving the learning for
29:15
the students in your classroom, I think is one
29:18
way. There are a plethora of AI adaptive learning
29:23
technology tools available to students and teachers.
29:26
And so you have to determine if your school district,
29:30
what's their policy around the use of AI, the
29:33
implementation of AI in the classroom. Got to
29:36
start there. And then based off of what they
29:38
allow and don't allow, you look at those tools
29:40
and then prompt the tool. These are the resources
29:43
I have available to me. Am I using them to their
29:46
fullest potential? based off of the needs of
29:49
these students in my classroom. And then just
29:51
kind of ideate until you find what's going to
29:53
be the thing that works best for you. And it's
29:57
not gonna be the same for all teachers. It's
29:59
not a one size fits all approach. It is this
30:02
is what is working best for my classroom, my
30:05
needs and my students. And I will share what
30:08
I did so that you can create the system that's
30:10
most effective for you in your space. The tools
30:13
change every single day. And so I always say
30:17
start small, get that cupcake, not the wedding
30:20
cake. Okay. Start small, identify a couple of
30:23
things that can help you and then go from there.
30:28
And I want to talk a little bit too about like
30:30
your, your creative life outside of work, but
30:34
also the fact that it's still next to your work
30:36
because you have like, obviously there's a lot
30:39
of cognitive things that go into these, like
30:41
even just thinking about the girls who game or
30:44
You know, those projects that get worked on,
30:47
there's obviously a cognitive piece to that,
30:49
but then there's a lot of creativity that goes
30:50
into that. So I just want to start by asking
30:53
for you personally, why is creativity such an
30:56
important component to learning? Absolutely.
31:01
You know, there's that saying, you know, well,
31:04
we're going to do this because this is how it's
31:06
always been done. And to me, that's a type of
31:09
response that lacks creativity, because what
31:12
if that system could be better? And so that's
31:15
when the power of creativity and critical thinking
31:18
comes in. I like to go into spaces and situations
31:22
of learning. Yes, I have my own knowledge base,
31:25
but I also like to go into the space and say,
31:28
what's missing? What am I missing? that could
31:31
make this better. And so if I just think about
31:35
what I know, am I really thinking of the best
31:38
possible outcome? I personally don't think so.
31:42
And so the importance of being creative is you
31:45
can think of any solution, any outcome that could
31:49
be. And, you know, with design thinking, it's
31:52
like throw the spaghetti at the wall. Just throw
31:55
it all out there. and then try to see what works
31:58
and what doesn't. But if you're not thinking
32:01
creatively, you're not, you know, putting all
32:04
of the ideas and possibilities out there that
32:06
could be. You know, I never go into a space where
32:09
we're trying to figure out a problem and shut
32:11
any ideas down. everything is on the table at
32:14
the beginning until we figure out what the best
32:16
outcome is. And so I would rather have a person
32:19
who shoots past the stars than a person who stops
32:23
at the moon. Right. You know, I need somebody
32:25
who is going to share ideas that are going to
32:29
broaden our potential versus just staying in,
32:33
you know, the safety of a box. Yeah, and I like
32:38
that analogy of like when you. talking about
32:40
like throwing everything at the wall. And so
32:43
to me, I was kind of thinking about as you were
32:44
talking about that, because the that to me is
32:47
almost like the artist process. Right. Like you're
32:50
you're throwing all these ideas out. And then
32:52
is it is it safe to say or would you agree with
32:55
this kind of my assessment of it? Like you do
32:58
that to get those creative thoughts out there
33:01
as an artist, but then as the educator component,
33:03
it's almost like now we're going to like think
33:06
about. how this is structured and like move things
33:09
around and then try to think about what pieces
33:12
actually fit together. Would you agree with that?
33:14
Or how would you describe that, Mary? I absolutely
33:18
would agree with that. Because even saying throwing
33:20
spaghetti at the wall, that can be very overwhelming
33:23
for people, right? This is way too much information.
33:27
And then the process of organizing it into those
33:31
bite sized pieces will be will be helpful in
33:35
determining well, like, Okay, these are some
33:38
options. All of these are similar. Can we create
33:41
a solution out of this? These are some similar
33:43
ideas. Can I create a solution out of this, right?
33:46
And so it is a part of throwing all of the things
33:49
out there and then doing that deep dive into
33:52
the things that we come up with to determine
33:54
if it's going to be effective or if it's not
33:57
going to be effective. What are the pros? What
33:59
are the cons? Why would I like the solution over
34:02
another? Am I forgetting people in this part
34:05
of the process, right? That might have input
34:07
or this might impact. And so I definitely think
34:10
the next step after you throw that spaghetti
34:13
is to break it down into those bite sized pieces
34:16
to figure out what will work and what won't work
34:19
and how you can move forward together. Do you
34:22
think like? Is would you consider that the best
34:27
approach as an educator? Because I know and you
34:30
kind of alluded to this a little bit, I think
34:31
that. You know, when, when some of that stuff
34:34
feels overwhelming, it's kind of easier to stay
34:37
more towards the rigid or like the familiar.
34:40
So do you feel like, um, one of our best assets
34:43
as an educator is to allow more of those opportunities
34:48
for just like. Just trying things out, throwing
34:52
stuff at the wall, just because that, and you
34:56
talked about this a little bit earlier too, but
34:57
just, it sets maybe a better environment for
35:00
students to learn in because. you allow them
35:03
those opportunities to fail at that? Yes, absolutely.
35:08
I have lived like this because I went into the
35:13
workforce as a teacher and I had a principal
35:15
who allowed me to try anything. and I wasn't
35:20
confined to just the scope and sequence, I could
35:23
really differentiate that experience for my students
35:26
based off of their needs. And so a part of that
35:29
is having leaders that trust you as an expert
35:32
and give you the autonomy to design experiences
35:35
for the students in your classroom. And so the
35:38
same way we want students to fail fast, we need
35:41
to give that same opportunity to the educators
35:43
in the classroom to meet the needs of their students.
35:46
The data will tell us if it worked or if it didn't.
35:49
And then we, what do we do? We circle back, we
35:51
reteach, we figure out a better way to do it.
35:54
And so again, I'm going back to giving teachers
35:56
grace. We give grace to a lot of people, but
35:59
you also have to give grace to yourself. And
36:02
if it didn't work, it didn't work. But I trust
36:04
them to figure out how to do right by the students.
36:09
So, and I want to connect this a little bit to.
36:11
you as well, because just thinking about something
36:14
that you've done, like something you've created
36:16
or made, is there was there one that you could
36:20
tell us about that was like something like that,
36:23
where it was like, I don't really know where
36:25
this is going. But eventually, like you got to
36:28
a spot where you felt like, well, I'm kind of
36:31
surprised that what became of this that I created,
36:35
because that's not where it started. And you
36:37
knew that like at the beginning. You had no idea.
36:40
Is there anything like that you could share with
36:42
us? Absolutely. So when I was in the classroom,
36:47
a lot of folks thought I was crazy because I
36:51
was like, I learned this approach in college
36:54
and it's a blended learning approach and I am
36:59
not going to do whole teach. I'm just not going
37:02
to do it because you have kiddos who are going
37:04
to sit there and do what you're saying and the
37:07
kiddos who don't know what's going on can hide
37:09
in the group. So the teachers thought I was crazy
37:12
for saying I'm going to have five different stations
37:18
every single day and I'm going to put my students
37:22
in groups and they're going to rotate through
37:24
these activities daily to learn the same things
37:28
you're teaching. And so I had technology. I got
37:32
people within our community to donate technology
37:35
into the classroom so the students could do game
37:38
-based learning. We had hands -on activities
37:41
where the students could use manipulatives. There
37:44
was always a station with me as the teacher,
37:47
and the students were able to have that whole
37:50
teach instruction in a small group setting. So
37:53
I could see in real time if my little friend
37:56
Nakia is struggling, I'm going to pause and redirect
38:00
her or coach her so that way she can stay within
38:03
the group. And those were flexible groupings.
38:05
You know, you were in your group based off of
38:07
the level of support that you needed at that
38:09
time, but you might not need that same level
38:11
of support in the next experience of activity.
38:14
And so I would say at first it was really, really
38:18
hard to think of, OK, I need I need five different
38:22
things for these kids to do all the time. And
38:25
it seemed like a lot. And it was a lot. But once
38:28
I got into the rhythm and the routine and taught
38:31
the students how to work with each other, ask
38:33
three before you ask me because I'm working in
38:36
a small group, it was just incredible. It became
38:40
a machine where they came in. You know, we did
38:42
our warm up, our classroom community circle where
38:45
we connected, and then we went into the learning.
38:48
And it was just a more effective approach for
38:50
that group of students that I worked with. And
38:52
so I think that you have to be okay with your
38:55
ability to try new things and accept that it
38:59
may or may not work. But again, I had a wonderful
39:02
principle that allowed me to try new things.
39:08
Yeah, Niki, you you come from a quite extensive
39:11
background of different experiences all through
39:14
the scope of education. I mean, PhD, you've been
39:19
in the classroom, you've been in district leadership,
39:23
you now work in a corporate environment, which
39:27
allows you, I think, to view education from a
39:30
little bit broader perspective. And when you
39:32
take that broad view of education today, what
39:36
excites you about the direction and the potential
39:39
for technology and education? Absolutely. That's
39:44
a really good question. The thing that excites
39:47
me the most is we are solving for a problem that
39:51
we technically don't know what will be in the
39:54
future with the onset of all of these new and
39:56
emerging technologies. And I am so excited that
39:59
as educators, we can no longer just focus on
40:03
the skills. of this is how you do a math problem.
40:07
This is how you, you know, solve this equation.
40:10
It has to be a broader approach of integrating
40:14
those soft skills into the classroom because
40:16
we're preparing kiddos for jobs that don't exist.
40:20
If you would have told me five, 10 years ago
40:23
that prompt engineering was a career, I would
40:27
have been like, I have no idea what that is.
40:29
Right? And so there is so much opportunity. and
40:34
experience or opportunities for teachers to provide
40:37
experience to students that will prepare them
40:40
for their future. We already see in the workforce
40:43
folks getting jobs in industries that they don't
40:46
have a college degree in, that they don't have
40:48
certifications in, but it's their ability to
40:51
have those soft skills and to have the productive
40:54
struggle of learning something new and thinking
40:57
differently about solving problems in those spaces
40:59
that is helping them to be successful. And so
41:02
we have to think critically and differently about
41:05
what those learning experiences are gonna look
41:07
like in the classroom to prepare students for
41:10
the future of jobs that don't exist as things
41:12
continue to rapidly change. And I think one of
41:16
the key things to that too is really we need,
41:20
and I think you hit on it with the soft skill
41:22
part of it is. We're preparing these kids for
41:25
jobs in the future that they don't know what
41:28
they're going to be. We don't know what they're
41:30
going to be, but we have to make them adaptable.
41:32
We have to make them want to at the same time
41:36
be curious enough to ask and to approach a situation
41:39
and say, what can I do about this? And what skills
41:43
do I need to retrain myself with in order to
41:47
continue to be productive in that way? Absolutely.
41:52
That's a question. Teachers, but what I'm going
41:55
to add to that is I spoke with a group of teachers
41:58
this week and a teacher point blank asked, what
42:02
do I even need to teach my students? I have a
42:07
curriculum. I know I was a software engineer.
42:10
I'm teaching computer science. I know how to
42:12
provide that information to them. Does that,
42:14
is that even necessary as things change in the
42:18
landscape of technology? I simply told her, you
42:23
are 100 % needed in this space. What you teach
42:27
might change, but at the end of the day, if somebody
42:30
is using a coding AI to develop an app, they
42:33
have to be able to look at that code, know what
42:36
it is, and to know if that was done effectively.
42:39
They still have to know the skills. I think about
42:41
when I was in math, and I'm taking algebra, and
42:45
they make you do everything on paper and in your
42:48
math notebook, and then after you've learned
42:51
how to do it, they're like, okay, go to get your
42:53
calculator. You're gonna punch this, this, and
42:55
this in. Boom, you have the answer, right? And
42:58
I remember thinking like, this is such a waste
42:59
of time. Just teach me how to do it on the calculator.
43:02
finish my homework way faster. But it's the importance
43:05
of knowing the what and the why and the how behind
43:08
things that educators are still responsible for
43:11
teaching to our students. And then those skills
43:14
are what they're going to transfer into those
43:16
jobs that don't exist because they still need
43:18
to be an expert and understand how these types
43:21
of things may or may not work as we move forward.
43:24
So, Nikia, we want to finish up here with a this
43:27
or that. So it's one of these situations where
43:30
you can only choose one or the other um so we're
43:33
gonna give you a series here and um kind of rapid
43:37
fire so okay better music scene austin or nashville
43:42
austin okay make art or teach art make art mountains
43:53
or beach beach definitely Podcast or music while
44:01
making art? Music while making art. Road trip
44:08
or flight? Ooh, flight. Okay, and then first
44:17
to leave the party or the last? Definitely the
44:21
first. I'm always surprised at how many of our
44:26
guests say they're the first to lead. But, you
44:29
know. Yes. My husband and I have our agreed upon
44:32
time. Perfect. You kind of need to establish
44:36
some ground rules like that, I think. Well, Nikia,
44:41
it's been such a pleasure to have you on. Before
44:43
we do let you go, we want to give you an opportunity
44:46
to shout out anything that you've got going on,
44:48
any events, anything you'd like to plug, any
44:51
socials or contact stuff here. And we'll be sure
44:55
to link it all into the show notes as well. Yeah,
44:59
absolutely. I love learning new things. And so
45:02
I'm always happy to connect with educators that
45:05
are still in practice. And so you can connect
45:08
with me on LinkedIn and they'll provide you with
45:10
my socials. The other thing that I will say is
45:13
I am an education strategist and I support the
45:15
Tex -Arcana region. So you can find me at conferences,
45:19
shows, supporting the school districts within
45:21
Texas, New Mexico, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. So
45:26
super excited to be out on the road meeting people
45:29
and happy to help in any way that I can. Thanks
45:33
for listening to Integrate This. Want to take
45:36
your learning further? Head over to our YouTube
45:38
channel for quick tutorials, deep dives, and
45:41
more edtech tips you can use right away. Don't
45:45
forget to subscribe and catch new podcast episodes
45:48
every Thursday on Apple, Spotify, or wherever
45:52
you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep
45:55
exploring, keep innovating, and keep integrating
45:58
this.