Latest / What's Your Problem? / Sam Bankman-Fried Wants to Save the World

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Sam Bankman-Fried Wants to Save the World · What's Your Problem?

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. One of the most interesting people in the crypto
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: world right now is Sam Bankman Freed. He's thirty years old,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: founded the crypto exchange FDx a few years back, and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: today he is worth around twenty billion dollars according to Forbes.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And yet he still lives with roommates and drives a
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Toyota Corolla. And maybe the most interesting thing about Sam,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it's actually not that into crypto. He didn't get into
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: it because he thinks bitcoin is going to replace the dollar,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: or that we're on the brink of some revolution in
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the very meaning of money. He got into crypto so
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: that he could make as much money as possible and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: then give almost all of it away. So when Sam
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: thinks about really big problems, he doesn't necessarily think about
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: how much the price of bitcoin is falling, or that
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a big stable coin fell apart a few weeks ago.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: He thinks about things like how to save humanity from extinction.
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  Speaker 1: How many people will live if we play our cards
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  Speaker 1: right as a world like in the ninetieth percentile outcome,
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  Speaker 1: How many people will live in the future dancers trillions,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: probably maybe hundreds of hundreds of trillions. I'm Jacob Goldstein
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and this is what's your problem? The show where entrepreneurs
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and engineers talk about how they're going to change the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: world once they solve a few problems. My guest today
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: is Sam Bankman Free, and his problem is this, how
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: do you save the world. Before we get to the interview,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I just want to take a minute here and set
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: up this one big idea. This really useful intellectual framework
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that drives almost everything Sam does. It's called expected value.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I try to use it a lot because I think
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it sort of is the default correct way in some
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: senses to calculate something like if you're just trying to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: do a generic calculation, I think it's usually the right
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: thing to use. You could understand expected value by understanding
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: how Sam decided to start his company, the crypto Exchange FTX.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: He was working as a trader making millions of dollars,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and when he thought about starting FTX, he knew there
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: was a really good chance it might fail. It might
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: ultimately be worth zero. But on the other hand, if
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: it succeeded, it could be worth tens of billions of dollars.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So here is a slightly oversimplified version of how you
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: would use expected value in this case, say, Sam thought
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  Speaker 1: there was only a one percent chance that his exchange
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: would be really successful, but that if it were really successful,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: it would make him twenty billion dollars. The expected value
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  Speaker 1: of starting the exchange is the probability of it being
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: successful one percent times the value if that success happens
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  Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars, which comes out to two hundred million
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: dollars a lot. So in twenty nineteen, Sam started FTX,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and Sam told me there is a really important lesson
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: here about expected value. One of the sort of takeaways
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: that often ends up coming from really thinking hard and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: critically about expected values is that you should go for
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  Speaker 1: it way more than is generally understood. Go big. You
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: should really go really big, even if you probably will
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: fail and wind up with zero. That's absolutely right. And
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the intuitions for why that's the case,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: for why I think going big is often the right
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  Speaker 1: thing to do well if you think about it, like
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you know, you've got obviously a number of options available
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  Speaker 1: to you. Somewhere on the far right hand side of
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  Speaker 1: distributions is like the best possible thing, meaning the really
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: good outcomes. That's right, the best possible thing you could
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  Speaker 1: imagine happening, and the best possible thing is probably really good.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it's probably orders of magnitude bigger than whatever
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  Speaker 1: you're sort of expecting to do. Right, it's not a
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: little better, it's wildly better. It's almost unimaginably better, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: And if you're thinking about, well, if I found a company,
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  Speaker 1: how is it going to go? You know, you're probably
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: thinking this might be a million dollar company, right, but
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  Speaker 1: the right hand distribution, the right hand tail of that
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  Speaker 1: is going to be a billion dollar company, and that's
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  Speaker 1: a thousand times bigger. And so in order for it
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  Speaker 1: to be justified to choose that decision, if you really
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  Speaker 1: do care linearly about money, if you really do think
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  Speaker 1: that getting that marginal dollars worth a lot, you know,
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  Speaker 1: even once you already have a lot of money, then
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  Speaker 1: it should lead you to think that that, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the best outcomes might be outcomes that have a ninety
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  Speaker 1: nine percent chance of failure. Right, Because of ninety nine
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  Speaker 1: percent chance of failure and a one percent chance of
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  Speaker 1: that billion is still that's ten million, and that's a lot.
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  Speaker 1: And so any kind that like there is some non zero,
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  Speaker 1: non negligible chance of a really really good outcome are
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  Speaker 1: times when you're gonna be incentivized more than seems natural,
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  Speaker 1: probably to choose extreme outcomes. I feel like that maps
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  Speaker 1: in different ways both to your work you do for
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: money and your altruism, which obviously are tied up, right,
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  Speaker 1: They both seem like very much rooted in those extreme outcomes.
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  Speaker 1: In the case of your work, it's an extremely large
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  Speaker 1: amount of money in a short amount of time, and
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  Speaker 1: in the case of the altruism, it's profoundly bad outcomes
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  Speaker 1: like everybody dying. Right, Like, both of those are sort
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: of the same. In the kind of expected value universe,
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  Speaker 1: there are things we should probably think more about than
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  Speaker 1: seems intuitive if we're not using expected value, that's exactly right.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And you know, when you think, as you said the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: altruism perspective, right, how many people will live if we
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  Speaker 1: play our cards right as a world, like in the
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  Speaker 1: ninetieth percentile outcome, how many people will live in the future.
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  Speaker 1: The answer is trillions, probably maybe hundreds of trillions, rights
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  Speaker 1: if thousands of times more than the number of people
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: who have ever lived. And so that's just that's a
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: huge factor, right, Anything that we do that actually has
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: impact on the whole future of the world is massively important.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of a ridiculous way to think at some level, right,
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  Speaker 1: it just gets so big then, like you're just some
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: guy with a lot of money at some level, right,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: talking about like trillions of people in the whole future
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: of humanity. Like it gets weird, Right, it does get
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: really weird. You should really stress us these and think like, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: do I really believe this? Like, do I really actually
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  Speaker 1: think that there's compelling evidence that like, you know, these
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  Speaker 1: numbers that I'm looking at are as big as I'm
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: claiming they are, or am I kind of bullshitting myself
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: on this? Like, you know, you should absolutely have some
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: humility around that, But it's not totally implausible. And there
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: are examples of people people who we've heard of were
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: very famous, and people who no one has ever heard of,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: who have had massive, massive impact on the world, who
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: have had that massive multiplier, And so it's not totally implausible.
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  Speaker 1: And so you know, I think that like, while we
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  Speaker 1: should absolutely have you know, a healthy dose of humility
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  Speaker 1: towards extreme outcomes, you know, we should also acknowledge that
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  Speaker 1: they can be real and that often the highest expected
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  Speaker 1: value things are in fact pushing directly towards them. Well,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and in fact you did hit the extreme right tale
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of the distribution in work right, you did just get
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: implausibly rich in a ridiculously short period of time. So
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: at least on that one it worked. That's right, and
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  Speaker 1: I think it's that's certainly it's been a big update
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  Speaker 1: towards me in the direction of life. This stuff is plausible.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. So the fact that you got so rich
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  Speaker 1: so fast in crypto does it make Does it push
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: your altruism toward like Welsh? Shit? If I could make
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars in three years, everybody on Earth could
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: in fact die from a pandemic or from some out
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of control AI and I should spend some of the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: money to try and reduce the probabilities of that. I mean,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: is it like that? Yeah, it absolutely does. I think
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: it absolutely does make me think, you know what, like
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  Speaker 1: these you know, really extreme outcomes are probably plausible, and
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  Speaker 1: they're probably plausible enough that I should be taking them
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  Speaker 1: really seriously, you know, And that has pretty profound implications
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  Speaker 1: I think for what we should be doing. We'll get
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to those profound implications and to exactly where Sam is
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: giving his money away in just a minute. That's the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: end of the ads. Now we're going back to the show.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Sam told me he's given away about two hundred million
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  Speaker 1: dollars so far, which obviously is a lot, but it
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: is also somewhere around one percent of what he plans
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  Speaker 1: to give away eventually. His giving has been broad anti poverty,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: animal welfare, healthcare, but he has started to focus on
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: a few areas. One of the biggest is pandemic preparedness.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: That is a category that fits right into that expected
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  Speaker 1: value framework. You know, a low probability but super deadly
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  Speaker 1: pandemic is worth spending a lot to prevent. Another place
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: where he's been giving is politics. Sam was one of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the biggest donors to President Biden's twenty twenty campaign. More recently,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: he donated over ten million dollars to support a candidate
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in a Democratic primary for a congressional seat in Oregon,
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  Speaker 1: largely because that candidate wanted to focus on pandemic preparedness.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: The primary was held just last week and Sam's candidate
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  Speaker 1: lost by a lot. I think that there are a
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  Speaker 1: lot of takeaways from it, and yeah, I think that
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  Speaker 1: might do it again. I would do it a bit
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  Speaker 1: differently than last time. But you know, fundamentally, I think
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  Speaker 1: it was a well fought race. I think that you know,
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  Speaker 1: he had a real show. Um. And you know, going
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  Speaker 1: back to the discussion of expected values, right, like, if
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  Speaker 1: you're donating blacal races such that you think your candidates
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  Speaker 1: are in ninety nine percent to weigh, you're almost certainly
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  Speaker 1: doing something right because that person doesn't need your money exactly.
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  Speaker 1: You should be donating such that you think that you
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: have a pretty substantial chance of losing. And you know,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I first stand by that. Do you expect you'll give
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of money in the twenty twenty four election cycle?
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  Speaker 1: I would guess so. I don't know for sure. It's
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: going to depend on who's running, but you know I
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: would guess so, well, let's say Donald Trump runs for president.
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  Speaker 1: Would that cause you to probably give a lot of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: money to the person who's running against him? That's that's
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a pretty decent guess. And and you know, I think
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that I'm going to be looking a lot less at
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: like political party, um from that perspective, and a lot
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: more about you know, uh same governance Like that is
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you know, at it's for the thing that I think
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I care the most governing governance. I think the United
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: States has both a big opportunity and big responsibility to
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the world to shepherd the West in a powerful but
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: responsible manner, and that everything that we do there has massive,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: massive ripple effects on what the future looks like. You've
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: talked before about being surprised at how little money is
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in politics. It is quite small, the amount of money
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that is donated relative to how much money the government spends. Right,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: does that lead you to want to donate a lot?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But does it follow from that that, like, you'll probably
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: donate a lot of money? It follows that I might
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: in the end. That's basically what I think. I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: that like, there are in some ways, there's you know,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: in some ways surprisingly little money in politics, and given
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: sort of the scope of its impact, noe, that doesn't
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean they're good things to do donating politics, Like
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it might be that, sure, but like, how are you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: actually going to do anything useful? You know? Maybe that's
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: how it turns out, but but maybe not, you know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not necessarily the case that more money
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: can have a meaningful effect on the outcome, That's right,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the case, but it certainly gestures a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: little bit in that direction. I mean, I imagine you
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: have some probability distribution in your mind of how much
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: money you might give in the next election cycle, Like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: give me some number. I would guess north of one
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: hundred million, um, And you know, as for how much
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: north of that, I don't know. You know, it really
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: does depend on what happens, Like it's really dependent on
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: exactly who's running where for why, like like these these
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: are are a super contingent thing. But um, but yeah,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I think that gives maybe some sense of what the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: what the sort of like scale might be here more
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: than one hundred million, sort of spread across many races, organizations,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: but towards the twenty twenty four election. So if that's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: a floor, what's the ceiling? Like a billion? Might you
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: give a billion? Yeah? I think that's a decent life
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: thing to look at as a as is sort of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: like I mean, I would hate to say like hard
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: ceiling its whom those was going to happen between now
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and then, but as like at least sort of a
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: soft ceiling, I would say, yeah, okay, So so the
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: ballpark is like one hundred million ish to a billion
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: ish with again a lot of caveats on this, and
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a world which told end up being
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: close to zero if they're you know, things just work
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: out such that there isn't Is there much I'm excited about?
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Like that seems like a very low probability to me,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: based on what I know about you in the world. Yeah,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: it's pretty I think it's I think it's very low
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: that it's actually gonna end up being zero. That does
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: seem pretty unlikely. Yeah, a billion seems way more likely
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: than zero to me. I think it's quaitely right. So
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I think the most anybody gave last time, if I
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: have the right numbers, is two hundred and fifteen million.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: That's for the twenty twenty cycle, the last presidential cycle.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It seems like you'll probably give more than that. Based
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: only on what you've told me, I think it is
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: eminently possible that I I think that that would not
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: surprise me. I've heard you say that you know, at
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: some points over the next few years, you hope to
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: find opportunities where you can spend give away like a
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: billion dollars really quickly. What are some of the places
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you think that might happen. I mean, the election, the
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four election is clearly one. What are a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: few others? I think pandemic prevntion is potentially one of them.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I think you look at like how much would it
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: cost to you know, really definitely prevent the next pandemic
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: or you can never definitely prevent it, but to have
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know, a really good shot at it. I think
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you're probably talking tens of billion dollars, which is crazy
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that that governments aren't spending that money, right, that's right,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: that really should be government spending it. And part of
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: this might be working with governments that because it's not
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that much like if truly if they could reduce the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: risk of a pandemic by half, say for thirty billion
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: dollars a year, like, do you actually think that is
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that true? Or fifty billion? I think I think something
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: like that's probably true. I think something that's like not
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: too far off from that order of magnitude, and that
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: probably you know, by the time you're talking about you know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: many tens of million billions of dollars um. You know,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: if that's something that you're probably going need to have
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: government stepping in on. But you know, I would be
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: happy to throw in a fair bit to help facilitate that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: So I should actually I should have asked this earlier.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: But to what extent are your political donations a pandemic
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: prevention strategy? So I think most of them have been
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: so far, and you know, going forward, like there may
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: become other policy, you know, things like AI policy that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: that that that you end up being really important. And
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: so it's not to say that like pandemics are the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: only things that are ever going to matter to me policywise,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: but that has been the big one so far, and
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: it's the idea there, like tens of billions of dollars
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: a year to significantly reduce the risk of another pandemic
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: is not that much for the government, but it's more
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: than you have, right, so you need a lever You
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: can't you can't actually spend all of your money and
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: meaningfully reduce the chances of another pandemic. And so if
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: you can use political donations to elect candidates who want
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to spend money to prevent a pandemic, that works, that's right.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So you're giving lots of money to political candidates, you're
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: also doing a lot of work to um shape regulation
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of crypto in the US, tell me about the overlap
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: between those two things. So most of the giving has
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: not been done with crypto in mind. And I have
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: been doing a ton of policy engagement on that, but
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that's mostly going to DC and talking with policymakers. I mean,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: here's the narrow version of the question. Is part of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: what you want from your political donations some particular outcome
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: in crypto regulation? That is not a big part of it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I wanted to talk more about crypto with Sam, but
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: our time was running short. I do promise to talk
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: more about crypto on the show before too long, and
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Sam did have time for a quick lightning round. We'll
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: have that lightning round in a minute. Okay, let's get
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: back to the show. We're gonna close with the lightning round.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Let me just let's just do a lightning round. A
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: few quick questions and you can answer them fast. What's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the least rational thing you do? Least rational thing? I
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: know I spend way too much time like aimlessly browsing Facebook. Fee.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Is it true you still sleep on a bean bag chair?
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And if so, why I did last night? I do
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: do many nights. Um, It's uh, I find it. I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, it's what I'm used to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: is honestly just part of the answer there. It's like,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: it's what feels natural for me. If everything goes well,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: what problem will you be trying to solve in five years?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I would say, the details of how to of what
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to prioritize for pandemic prevention funding with you know institutes
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: that have been set up and are you know online
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: it a ton of capital into it, and you know
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: really great teams who are are devoting themselves to building
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: it out. So the dream is you'll be like deep
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in the weeds figuring out how to prevent a pandemic.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Um I've seen in other interviews you're doing lots of
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: different things during the interview. I couldn't actually tell if
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: you were doing other things during this interview, But were
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you and if so, what were you doing? As playing
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: game of Storybook for all? I say the name of
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the game again, Storybook Brawl. How did you say it?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I took second place out of eight, could have been worse,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and I apologize I do have to haul off. Okay,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: last one, what's one piece of advice you'd give to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: somebody trying to solve a hard problem. One piece of
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: advice I would say, I just keep going, Just keep going,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: stuff by stuff, you know, try and solve it, but
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: by bit, and you know, eventually, hopefully you'll get there.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Sam bankman Fried is the founder and CEO of FTX.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Today's show was produced by Edith Russlo, edited by Robert Smith,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and engineered by Amanda K. Wong. You can reach us
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: at problem at Pushkin dot fm, or you can find
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Jacob Goldstein. I'm Jacob Goldstein and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I'll be back next week with another episode of What's
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Your Problem