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Pope Leo XIV challenges Europe's approach to Ukraine war · THE DAILY BRIEF

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  Speaker 1: Pope Leo has called for courage in negotiation and compromise
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: to help bring an end to war in Europe. The
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  Speaker 1: apparent reference to Russia's invasion of Ukraine came during a
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  Speaker 1: visit to the French city of Metz, where the first
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  Speaker 1: American pope met religious leaders and President Emmanuel Macron at
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  Speaker 1: the close of a four-day trip to France.
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  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, this is your Pope Speaking. The head
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  Speaker 2: of the Catholic Church began the final leg of his
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  Speaker 2: French sojourn by joining the pilots in the cockpit during
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  Speaker 2: his flight to the city of Metz. After arriving in Metz,
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  Speaker 2: Pope Leo met representatives of different religions at the Human
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  Speaker 2: Rights Forecourt, where he urged them to preach messages of
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  Speaker 2: peace and unity. Later, at Metz's Robert Schuman Institute, Pope
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  Speaker 2: Leo joined French President Emmanuel Macron on stage, Addressing a
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  Speaker 2: packed house, the two leaders discussed Europe's role in responding
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  Speaker 2: to global conflicts.
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  Speaker 3: Here in Metz, we are pleased to welcome you, Holy Father,
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  Speaker 3: to listen to you and to learn from you. For
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  Speaker 3: here beats the thousand-year-old heart of Europe. A Europe that
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  Speaker 3: must rediscover the courage of its founders. Yes, courage, in
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  Speaker 3: order to become the power for peace, independence and democracy
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  Speaker 3: that it is meant to be. courage not to give
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  Speaker 3: in to the jewel, to hatred of others or to
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  Speaker 3: the return of divisive nationalisms.
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  Speaker 4: Today, unfortunately, war has re-emerged, even in Europe, where a
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  Speaker 4: new and senseless slaughter is claiming countless civilian victims every day.
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  Speaker 4: We must engage in patient dialogue, show courage in negotiation
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  Speaker 4: and be prepared to sacrifice certain positions for the greater
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  Speaker 4: good of peace.
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  Speaker 2: France's anti-immigration far-right is hoping to win next year's presidential
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  Speaker 2: election and succeed Macron, a centrist. The French president, meanwhile,
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  Speaker 2: will be keen to capitalise on the goodwill generated by
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  Speaker 2: Pope Leo's visit, as he shores up support for his
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  Speaker 2: own Renaissance party, which has long positioned itself as a
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  Speaker 2: moderate alternative. After celebrating Mass at the Cathedral of St Stephen,
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  Speaker 2: Pope Leo heads to the airport for the journey back
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  Speaker 2: to the Vatican. During his four-day visit in France, he
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  Speaker 2: spoke candidly on topics including the Church's history of sexual abuse,
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  Speaker 2: Russia's war against Ukraine and Europe's deepening political divisions, showing
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  Speaker 2: his readiness to address difficult issues head on.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get more now from our Europe correspondent, Christine Mundois,
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  Speaker 1: who is in Metz. Christine, the Pope in his address
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  Speaker 1: never named Ukraine, but he said negotiators for warring parties
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  Speaker 1: must be, quote, willing to give up some positions for peace.
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  Speaker 1: How do you read that?
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  Speaker 5: That's right, Terry. He didn't mention Ukraine or Russia for
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  Speaker 5: that matter. But given that this was a speech billed
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  Speaker 5: about peace in Europe, that it's taking place in a city, Met,
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  Speaker 5: that is, that has had its fair share of war,
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  Speaker 5: wars between France and Germany. And given the fact that
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  Speaker 5: you have this war raging in Ukraine now approaching its
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  Speaker 5: fifth year, One can imagine that Pope Leo was making
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  Speaker 5: reference to this particular war and there being a need
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  Speaker 5: for more compromise. Now, if you take the Pope's words literally,
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  Speaker 5: giving up certain positions, is the Pope saying that Ukraine
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  Speaker 5: must give up some territorial positions to the Russians? Is
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  Speaker 5: he saying that Ukraine must give up? certain ambitions, leaning
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  Speaker 5: more to the West, integrating in the European Union, integrating
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  Speaker 5: within the NATO military alliance, all of which the Russians
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  Speaker 5: are opposed to. These words will come very, very hard
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  Speaker 5: at people here in Europe as well who have spent
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  Speaker 5: the last four years, close to five years, putting Ukraine
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  Speaker 5: in a position to be able to defeat the Russians
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  Speaker 5: in this war. Not easy words. The Pope did not
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  Speaker 5: use those exact words. But is that what this Pope
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  Speaker 5: is saying in a world where there is increased military
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  Speaker 5: emphasis and he feels that there is less emphasis on dialogue, diplomacy, and,
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  Speaker 5: of course... That requires compromise.
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  Speaker 1: Well, as you're suggesting, the notion of giving up positions, well,
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  Speaker 1: that's a loaded phrase in the context of Russia's war
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  Speaker 1: against Ukraine, for sure. How can we expect European leaders,
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  Speaker 1: for the reasons you just explained, how can we expect
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  Speaker 1: them to react to that?
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  Speaker 5: Well, Terry, I think it's fair to say that that's
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  Speaker 5: a very unpopular position. And we just have to take
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  Speaker 5: a step back and look at what's happened over the
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  Speaker 5: last few years. The billions that have been donated by
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  Speaker 5: European countries to help Ukraine in this fight. The economic
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  Speaker 5: pain that European countries have taken on in sanctioning the
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  Speaker 5: Russians for this invasion. You are in Germany, Terry, where
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  Speaker 5: energy costs have gone up, putting a lot of people
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  Speaker 5: out of business, changing the economic landscape. even having a
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  Speaker 5: serious impact on the country's economic growth, and not just Germany,
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  Speaker 5: across the European Union, all because of this war that
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  Speaker 5: Russia has started in Ukraine. All of that has gone
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  Speaker 5: in there. To now turn around, make an about-face and say, well,
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  Speaker 5: what do the Russians want? Let's hand it over anyway.
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  Speaker 5: You'll find very few people willing to actually do that.
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  Speaker 5: The Europeans see this as their fight as well. This
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  Speaker 5: isn't just about the Ukrainians. Really, the Ukrainians are seeing as...
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  Speaker 5: being on the front lines for the rest of the
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  Speaker 5: European Union. The military sort of held convention here is
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  Speaker 5: that the Russians have ambitions beyond Ukraine itself and that
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  Speaker 5: certain NATO countries will soon be under attack. There are
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  Speaker 5: forecasts here of in a period of about five years
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  Speaker 5: that the Russians will be in a position to attack,
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  Speaker 5: that everything that the Russians are doing now is positioning
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  Speaker 5: themselves to then go and attack Europe. So it is
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  Speaker 5: a hard sell. to people who feel that this Russian
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  Speaker 5: threat is growing, also in a time where you have
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  Speaker 5: all sorts of hybrid attacks happening, drones and European airspace
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  Speaker 5: and NATO airspace, etc. So this is a very difficult
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  Speaker 5: time to say to people, you need to be making
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  Speaker 5: the kinds of concessions that they perceive would give the Russians...
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  Speaker 5: some kind of an advantage to actually further encroach. And
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  Speaker 5: also just the previous experience that people have had here,
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  Speaker 5: there was Ukraine and also many times where the Russians
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  Speaker 5: indicated that they would not be doing what they eventually
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  Speaker 5: turn out to go and do. So there's really not
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  Speaker 5: much trust right now. And it would be asking a
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  Speaker 5: lot from leaders in Europe to take this message off,
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  Speaker 5: be more conciliatory, make more compromises.
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  Speaker 1: Particularly on sovereignty, on territorial sovereignty. Christine, Leo came out
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  Speaker 1: not just against war, but against rising military, European military spending.
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  Speaker 1: He said it's an illusion that rearmament is the answer.
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  Speaker 1: Is this a shift in tone or substance from the Vatican,
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  Speaker 1: or is it really just a continuation of its longstanding position?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, he actually caveated that by saying he
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  Speaker 5: wasn't promoting naive pacifism, but I think what... What this
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  Speaker 5: pontiff was saying here, this religious leader, was to say
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  Speaker 5: that he sees too much of an emphasis on military
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  Speaker 5: strength and might, and that is now taking the place
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  Speaker 5: of people's willingness to pursue peace in other ways, dialogue, diplomacy,
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  Speaker 5: sitting down and talking to one another, that for him,
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  Speaker 5: this emphasis of where everything is going into military might,
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  Speaker 5: and it comes at a time, Terry, where you would
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  Speaker 5: know that European countries, via the NATO alliance, have committed
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  Speaker 5: to spending 5% of their GDP... This is huge sums
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  Speaker 5: of money on military spend. And I think this Pope
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  Speaker 5: looks at that and says, well, we will continue to caution.
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  Speaker 5: It's not new from the Vatican. His predecessor, Francis, would
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  Speaker 5: have said the same thing, that we should continue to
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  Speaker 5: pursue peace via other avenues. Relying solely on military might
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  Speaker 5: and strength will actually weaken the appetite for people to
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  Speaker 5: be able to sit and talk to one another. And
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  Speaker 5: that is what the Pope was trying to communicate there.
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  Speaker 1: Christine, thank you very much. That was our correspondent, Christine
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  Speaker 1: Munois in Metz.