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RTC58: Amy Fraser on balancing family and career when life doesn't go according to plan · The Curve

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Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money,
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their money for the future they want to have. We're all busy in the pursuit for financial
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confidence and increasing your wealth should be a simple one.
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This podcast is for women to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way.
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With short episodes, you'll have time to learn, digest and understand everything to do
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with the world of investing. So thank you for being here and for listening.
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Because together we really can raise the curve.
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Okay, so for those of you who don't know Amy, her full name is Amy Fraser.
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Are we referring as Amy Fraser?
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That is correct.
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She runs, well she was running a business called OK Real.
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Now is consulting for businesses, she's a coach, she's a writer,
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a very multi-talented human and we're very grateful to have you in studio.
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I would love to know beyond the job, beyond the kids.
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How would you describe yourself? Someone's like, who are you?
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Oh gosh, I feel like I would serve you.
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And I'm not answering it, but I'm like, what a stand for 10am.
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What is the meaning of happiness? What is the meaning of life?
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I guess it's like, you know, what is the essence of who you are?
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Like, how do you identify as a person?
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So esoteric, I love it.
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So I'm a woman, I am a mother, I am a business woman, I guess.
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At the core of what I do across all facets of my life,
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I would say I've always been interested in people in the way that we connect
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and what drives us and the relationships that form the foundation of that
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and that is a common thread through, I think, everything that I do.
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So does that answer the question?
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Yeah, that was a question.
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I think the thing is, because I know Amy threw actually an ex-boyfriend
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and I know that that's the kind of question you can answer.
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Like, I wouldn't probably throw that at Mimi interview kids.
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I don't know if I did very well, but it was great.
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Now, you wrote a really amazing blog post for us ages ago
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and I remember reading your answers and I'll say, oh, Amy,
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just so eloquent and really open and vulnerable and insightful
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and I just, if anyone hasn't read it, highly recommend.
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You can find it in the blog section on our website.
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But one of the things that you wrote that I wanted to ask you about
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was when you were younger, you said you were rich in love,
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but not so much in money.
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And I guess I'd love to know what your childhood was like
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and if you could just elaborate a bit on that
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and maybe how you think it's affected maybe what you do
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or your family life now.
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Yeah, great question.
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So I grew up in Auckland.
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I spent a little bit of time in Oakuni when I was little.
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My parents, my dad as a policeman,
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he has been since I was born before I was born.
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And my mum, she is a business owner as well.
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She does MBTI training, kind of similar to what I do.
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So Maya's Briggs, she runs kind of personality seminars
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and was an entrepreneur before anybody referred it to as being that.
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It was just kind of putting food on the table.
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But we didn't grow up with a lot of money.
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And when my parents separated when I was maybe sex or so,
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that became more pronounced, I guess,
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our financial situation as one way of putting it.
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You know, in saying that, we were also really privileged
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in the way that if I wanted to do speech and drama lessons,
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we did them.
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You know, my mum and my dad, they always made sure
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that we did the things that we needed to do that were important.
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But my brother remembers this really specific moment
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of our mother being really upset because she couldn't afford to pay a speeding fine.
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And he was like, I know at that moment that we had no money.
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And so all that money was a stretch.
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But I don't remember ever feeling like I lacked.
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My mother was always a great example of you can figure it out.
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And money doesn't actually matter that much.
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You don't have to have a lot of money to have a great life.
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You can start a business as a single mother with three kids at home
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and do your masters at the dining room table after they've gone to bed
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and kickstart something on your own and figure it out.
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However, I think along with that,
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we didn't have a lot of discussions about money at the dinner table.
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There wasn't an abundance of financial literacy.
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You know, a lot of people, I think,
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have awareness of investment and things like that we just didn't.
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I didn't even know what that would meant until yesterday.
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Yeah, like last week.
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I think so and me thus can relate to that lack of education,
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financial literacy.
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I mean, that was really lucky that her mum was an accountant
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so she was kind of exposed to that quite young.
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We talked about money a lot.
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Like it was very much the value.
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There was a whole conscious of the value of money.
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Like that costs money.
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That cost $30.
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And also like, okay, well, if you want that,
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you have to work for it.
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Kind of thing was like that.
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I don't remember me and my parents went wrong with me.
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But now it's like, now it gets a bit ridiculous.
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It's like ingrained in me of like,
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it's like that costs money because you know, like it's like,
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you can't sometimes get removed from that and just like,
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enjoy.
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But I honestly like wrecking my parents tried to have that with me.
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They tried with pocket money.
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They tried with all sorts of stuff.
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It's not like I was a spoiled kid but for some reason.
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I think maybe because my dad was trying to drill into me,
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I was just pushing it away, pushing it away, pushing it away, pushing it away.
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The stuff I did when I was younger,
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my relationship with my finances was like, so dire.
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Dad could not be proud of it.
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Because he's like, thank fuck.
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She is finally learning something.
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Getting affectionate.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And then I guess Amy, when you left home,
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did you go straight over to America?
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I went to Canada first.
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Cool.
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So I lived in Toronto for about six months.
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So out of uni, I went to ATI, I set a communications.
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I worked at Ogilvy for a year and then realized that
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with a communications degree in 2000 and aged myself here,
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2000 or something, 2008, you could either be an account executive
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at an advertising firm or a PR girl,
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neither of which were that appealing after working and advertising for a year.
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And so I really wanted to go to New York.
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I don't know why.
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I don't know if I'd seen a movie or...
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I think I was very into music at the time and very into the arts
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and it was appealing in that sense.
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Visas were a nightmare though.
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So I landed in Canada with a guitar.
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What a hark here.
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And so cute.
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What an idiot.
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It's a movie.
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It's like, you know what?
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I want to go to New York.
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I'm just going to go to Toronto without a guitar.
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Yeah, what a loser.
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And I'm into that on like nobody's doorstep.
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Didn't know a soul.
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I remember I saved up for my ticket and got on the plane.
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And then I worked three jobs to pay my rent.
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And I worked in retail during the day.
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And then I would go to my restaurant job in the evening.
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And then I started my bar shift at one or two.
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Wow.
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And I didn't do this every day.
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I didn't do this every day.
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I didn't do this every day.
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I'm not that noble.
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But it was quite a hardcore regime.
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And then the winter set in.
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And I was like, fuck this, I'm out.
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See you back.
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Yeah.
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I was like, I can't afford heat.
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Like there's no heating.
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I'm, yeah, I'm done.
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And also, and then so from there you went to New York.
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So you were like, it's cold here.
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I'm going to go somewhere kind of cold.
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Yeah.
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I started this jewelry brand with my ex-husband called Two Gypsies.
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And it ended up in vogue and all these things.
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Oh my gosh.
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And you're like, cracked it.
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I was like, wow, you know, I'm really killing it.
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Working as a nanny and a jewelry maker in the city.
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But I love that you're like her.
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So I'm like, jean, you and me, so impressed.
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I think that's amazing.
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But it was, do you know what the best part about that was?
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My introduction to, oh, I wouldn't really call it business.
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I mean, that's a bit grandiose.
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But I remember building the website and I built it in Dreamweaver.
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And now I'm really aging myself because I remember kind of like
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drawing the little like HTML boxes and learning a very rudimentary
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version of code.
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And I think that was my first introduction of like, okay,
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well, if you want to create something, if you want to do it,
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then figure out how to do it yourself.
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And so I did that for a while and then I got my green card.
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And I think the week that I was so desperate to work,
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like a real job.
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And I got a job the week that I got my green card.
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And I worked in a branding agency as a project manager.
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We did all of the things I loved about advertising.
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And none of the stuff I hated.
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So building a brand, building a voice, and it was great.
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And now the husband, the ex-husband that you're talking about,
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you can tell me if you don't want to go here.
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But you have two kids.
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One of which was with him.
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And it was probably a less than ideal entry into motherhood,
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if I can say that, in terms of...
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Definitely worse than ideal.
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I'm like, I don't want to be offended.
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Is that something you feel comfortable talking about?
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Yeah, definitely.
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And being completely honest about what happened at that time,
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I found out at five months pregnant that he had essentially
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a double life with multiple other women.
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And so that, and that was after we'd been married for about eight years.
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And that was five months into a planned pregnancy.
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And that was at the height of kind of my career.
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At the years prior, I had built this business which we'll get into.
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But it really was the catalyst of a huge new chapter for my life.
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And that was one of my first dragons to slay.
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I'm glad that you slayed it.
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Because, you know, it would be really terrifying having your first kid in general,
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you know, regardless of even if you've a really stable happy relationship.
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But then sort of to add on like a holy shit,
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I'm like, kind of doing this by myself now.
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And do you look at yourself back then and go,
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oh my gosh, I can't believe I came through that.
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I have a lot of compassion for that woman who I was.
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And I'm sure it sounds so weird to say,
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but you wouldn't change it, right?
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I wouldn't change it.
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And it's a very, I think at the time of things like that happening.
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It's really hard to stand back and say,
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well, what is this teaching me?
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And I think at the time I didn't have this very kind of noble outlook.
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I was really just operating almost on autopilot.
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And that week that I found out I had to present these big events in San Francisco.
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And then I had some in New York.
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And there was just so much going on.
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I mean, the one thing that I always offer people in terms, by way of advice,
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in situations like that is just hold on to the things that make you feel powerful.
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And for me, that was my work.
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And my career had granted me so much of my identity.
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And the community that I'd built was also,
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I had kind of built this community, okay, real thinking that I was building something for other people.
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And it was this really serendipitous episode of my life where I thought,
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holy shit, I actually built this for me.
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And to feel that reciprocity and the love and the energy that you pour into something
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and not having that immediate gratification,
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we went profitable for years.
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And then the return on investment, if you will,
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came in such a magical form that I didn't know that I would need.
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And it came in the form of woman standing behind me
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and acting as like an army for this transformation that I had,
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that what I was forced to undergo.
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As I went through this really hard time.
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It's funny, yeah, I was just thinking,
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oh, it's not even anywhere near what you went through.
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But I remember I very first curve event.
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And we had 30 people attend, like it was the first curve event.
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And I was really, really excited and I broke up with a boyfriend the night before
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and had to go and present.
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And I was like, to my sister, remember I said, I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it.
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And then I was like, you know what, I have to do it.
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Like I have to, I can't let all these people down.
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Let's just get some rest.
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Someone don't worry about you.
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I just don't want that one.
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I was hanging on by a thread, but I was like,
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oh, I have to just get through this evening.
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And then afterwards I was like, I'm so glad I didn't just bail or I didn't just give up.
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And it was more, I think, a function of, I can do that, I can get through this.
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You're telling your attention or your focus to something else.
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Almost like to distract you.
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Not saying don't deal with your emotions, not deal with it, but like,
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there's that moment.
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There's something about applying yourself.
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And reminding me, because I think at that moment you probably felt a deficit in value.
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Like I've broken up with my boyfriend, I've lost something.
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So what is something that exercises that feeling of abundance or that feeling of worth?
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And for you, that was, you are offering something of yourself to other people,
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which actually in turn, it empowers you and it reminds you of your strength.
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And so even if, yeah, in those moments where you really don't want to,
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I think like using your voice is really important, important when you've gone through a period of feeling voiceless,
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doing the things that remind you of who you are and surrounding yourself with people
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who reflect back a good version or an important,
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a valuable version of yourself is what pops you through.
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It's really hard to kind of put a blanket over this.
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And I would also just like to preface this entire conversation by saying that collectively
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we are three white woman in a room from a very privileged, speaking from a very privileged perspective.
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And so even, thank you for pointing that out.
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Or even my circumstance where, yeah, I was a single mother.
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So, okay, I guess I kind of like laps into a marginalized group for five minutes or whatever it is.
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You know, I'm not a woman of color.
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I didn't have a whole lot of disadvantages working against me in the first place.
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So even though I found myself in a position of strife,
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I had things going for me, I had a family to come back to.
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And I think that we talk about privilege by way of financial privilege,
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family is a huge form of privilege.
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We recently did an anonymous sort of survey.
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We did one that was for salaries.
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And then we recently did one parental.
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And it was people wanted to know what other companies offered when it came to leaving to have a baby.
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And you've obviously been self employed for 10 years.
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So it's quite a different situation for you.
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But I just love to talk about that relationship between taking time out for work.
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And what that looks like from a support perspective, like whether you're self employed or with an employer.
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In terms of maternity leave, I'd never envisioned having this like time where I just didn't work for a while.
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I always wanted to keep working with the acknowledgement that I had no idea of what parenthood would bring me.
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But I think what's interesting is that here it's very common, you know, to have a year's maternity leave.
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Generally speaking, a lot of people I know have that offered by their employer or six months or whatever that may be.
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I got an email from kind of a founder at a company saying something along the lines of like, how found it?
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You know, she took three weeks off.
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And after her maternity leave, which is, and she didn't even check her email once.
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And like, do you want to do an interview about that?
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Because that's such a huge achievement.
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It's a good thing that she only took, it was something like she took a whole three weeks off.
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I was like, that's, you know, if you reverse that and said if somebody took three weeks off after maternity leave, he'd be like, that's insane.
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And over there, it was something to be proud of.
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Like, she really took some time off herself.
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Oh my god.
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It was something in that realm.
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And I just remember thinking, well, it's so different, the expectation of work and what we expect of women and also what we expect of ourselves.
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But I like what you said about I wasn't planning to take a year off.
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It was the whole expectation of I didn't know what motherhood entailed.
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I might be absolutely sweet with it and want to come back to work really early.
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Or I might need a lot of time.
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You know, like, it's such an unknown place.
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I think a lot of them don't have the luxury totally to even say I'm going to take their mental six months or a whole year.
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I'm never going to work again.
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Well, especially if you're self-employed, that's three months, six months a year you're not earning.
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I mean, what's it been like for you with the dynamic in your relationship?
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Well, I think having a second child in some ways, even though that was so, you know, the introduction I had to motherhood,
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was so cooked.
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I was like, what's she going to say?
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Cook, something like that.
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But I kind of, as my little boy, as he, you know, I kind of got through that first year.
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And I kind of had one kid on lock.
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I was like, okay, you drop them off to candy, whatever, you get your shit done.
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You kind of, one child is manageable.
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And then the introduction of a second has been more difficult for me in a lot of ways because it has been such a logistical challenge that you were like,
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I don't know how people do it.
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I don't know either.
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And I just somehow make it work.
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Make it work.
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But there is a cost to that.
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I really hope that I don't sound like a victim of this tragedy.
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My children are the best thing that have ever happened to me.
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However, speaking about the realities of making it work is something that we need to do more of.
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And again, I am in a situation where I have a partner.
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There's another person in our family making money as single mothers.
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I mean, I don't know how single mothers do it.
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And as you said, what is the solution to the problem?
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I think it's not just support for mothers.
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It's actually support for families at large.
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Yeah.
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Giving, like, taking the stress off of mothers to have to do both things.
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Or honestly, I feel so naive with this because I don't even know what would help.
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Well, it's systemic.
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But there's a cult.
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It needs to be addressed culturally.
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And it also needs to be addressed as a responsibility to the people.
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And so it depends on how socialist your views are, how much taxpayer money should go into supporting families.
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And what is the cost to other economic facets that, you know, what will be sacrificed as a result of that?
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Or what is the value of having women supported in the workplace?
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I mean, you know, it really depends on who you are asked as to how to solve the problem.
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But there is a problem.
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And I think we're just starting to talk about the problem.
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And then you have a whole lot of dudes who are like, well, somebody's got to have the Kurds.
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And I think that this goes back to what I was saying in the interview that I did with you guys.
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Whereas this kind of, like, low-key patriarchal infusion that I believe New Zealand and, you know,
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I'd say Australia as well as kind of entrenched in, where we have made a lot of strides for women.
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However, at the dinner table and your uncle makes a joke.
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And then your boyfriend says something and you're like, it's just there.
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It's there. It's below the surface, but it is there.
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And that permeates how we exist.
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It permeates the expectations that you have when you enter a partnership with children.
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Ask any mother with kids how they do it.
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And there will be some, I guarantee, there will be some sort of like lined up doing more.
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But it's not seen that invisible load.
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And even my friends who do make more money than their partners, they are still expected to run the house.
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So what is interesting to me is that money doesn't actually solve the problem.
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So when you're saying, how do we solve it?
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It's a hugely cultural as well, hugely around gender roles.
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God, I know this really infuriates me, it's like.
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Well, it's because you've been in a relationship where you would have a huge hard day at work.
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In fact, probably all of us will have experienced this.
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And you come home and it's like almost expected that you're making dinner.
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And I've also just had a 10 hour day and I'm exhausted.
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And I don't want to order oberates.
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So like, can we figure out a middle ground here?
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And I found out myself turning into my mother at that point.
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Because that was kind of not saying that my dad didn't make dinner.
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He did, he made delicious dinners.
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But I think it was like, both my parents were working yet.
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It was me and my sister would always go up to my mom and be like, what are we having for dinner?
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And Sharon once she just lost it.
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She was like, I don't fucking know, she didn't swear.
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And I was like, even that, that we're asking mom what's for dinner.
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We're not asking mom and dad.
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You know what I'm saying?
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And I think there's a huge, there's also an internal conflict that comes with that.
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Because I also want to be the one making dinner for my kids.
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And this is where it gets complicated.
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Because I want to be the one making sure his school bag is my son's start school in a few weeks.
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And I want to be the one who's there.
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I want to be the one at the doctor's office making sure that I'm there.
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So there is biology at play here as well.
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So I want to acknowledge that.
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Because as a mother, you do have a reflex towards your children to prioritize them.
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But what is interesting is that culturally we are now working.
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We're in the workplace and we have come to acknowledge that we do exist outside of our worms.
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And so there's this constant conflict as somebody who loves their career and who loves their children.
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But again, it's hard because I want to be there for my kids.
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I want to be the one, not all the time.
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But I want to still be there for them.
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And we're almost our own worst enemy.
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We want to do everything.
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Yes, thank you.
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But the interesting thing is, even if you think about it from a business dynamic for Kenai, often I'll be like,
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oh, I want to come to that meeting.
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She's like, yeah, but we've got to divide and conquer.
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We've got to try and get locked down here.
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So I also imagine it's hard within a dynamic where it's like, on one side, you probably want to say,
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hey, can you step up and also want to be there for all of these things?
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But at the same time, it's like, if they're doing it, you're probably like,
22:34
okay, I'm going to get a couple of hours work done.
22:36
It's like, what is it that you need them to pick up slack and what is within your own dynamic?
22:40
What's helpful?
22:41
What have you found that would be of benefit to you?
22:46
So my partner works at a property development company in finance.
22:50
And those hours are very fixed and they're long.
22:53
And I think what has been helpful is being, because I think that as a woman,
22:58
we just assume everything is our responsibility.
23:01
And instead of having this generalized approach of like, well, you just need to help being really specific.
23:07
Like, can you do the Kendi drop off on days XYZ?
23:12
Being specific around the things that you need as opposed to having a generally expectation
23:17
but not voicing it because you're raging on the inside and then expecting them to know,
23:21
I think men respond well to very explicit direction.
23:25
And because we've seen our mothers just kind of pick things up and do everything,
23:30
we assume that role as well.
23:33
Whereas being really clear about the things that your partner can help with
23:40
has been helpful.
23:43
And I guess it all comes down to communication.
23:46
It's almost like a delegation.
23:48
It's like, it's all the sound really bad.
23:50
A contract?
23:51
It's almost like you're all ahead of everything because let's be honest.
23:54
You kind of are probably a little bit, but it's like you don't necessarily need to make that person feel like that.
23:59
But it's like, okay, if I look at this, there's a project management role.
24:02
You can be the manager of that and the manager of that.
24:05
What would help me?
24:06
You know, like, and you're right, it's like, is it Kendi pick up?
24:09
You cook dinner two nights a week, is it?
24:11
And then you can kind of plan and know the time that you're spending in certain areas of your life
24:16
and choose where you want to spend more energy and time when you get stuff taken off your plate.
24:21
If you're working and you're not with your kids and then if you're with the kids and you're not working,
24:24
I don't have kids, but I just feel like I will constantly feel like I'm letting the other job down.
24:32
But there's just only 24 hours in a day, so you literally have to divide up your time.
24:35
But I just feel like I will constantly be like, I'm not putting enough effort into either.
24:40
Mum's guilt, something like the number one thing that people talk about.
24:43
Yeah, it's huge because there's that conflict at play constantly.
24:48
I go through stages though.
24:50
I go through stages of, or you know, I have days where I'm really, really stoked that I'm working
24:57
and I'm producing something other than pasta.
25:01
Or, you know, and I'm quite like, this is actually,
25:05
but you produce a really good pasta.
25:07
Actually, don't, I'm a shit pasta maker.
25:10
There are a lot of things about motherhood that I love my kids more than anything in the world.
25:18
I'm good at caring for them, but I get really over like playing.
25:24
I'm great at reading books and doing that kind of thing and you don't want to be like,
25:28
writing around the living room.
25:29
No, absolutely not.
25:30
We do a lot of dance parties and that's great.
25:32
And in those moments, I feel, you know, when I'm looking after my kids and I know that they feel safe
25:36
and they're coming into a home that's warm and I'm bathing them.
25:40
And I love caring for my kids, but I know that for example, like taking right a swimming,
25:45
I'm like, then can you do that?
25:47
Or, you know, there are certain things that you can kind of, you can delegate to your partner,
25:52
you can delegate to yourself as well, you can know what you're good at as a parent.
25:55
Playing to your strengths, like in a business sense, but in a parenting sense.
25:58
But in a parenting sense.
25:59
But there is the guilt.
26:01
It's like us with the curve, you know, parents of the curve, but you take out the creative jobs.
26:07
So as our child, the curves.
26:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:10
But it's, yeah, you're trying to do both things well.
26:14
And I think that what you find as a mother is you're doing, you can't do everything well.
26:19
And so you do everything at kind of like, you do both things at like 60%
26:24
and then you have to make peace with that.
26:26
Can I ask you potentially a controversial question?
26:29
We did an episode with a lawyer and she gave us an explanation around the Property Relationships Act.
26:35
You either have essentially a prenup or by default the New Zealand law essentially means you split things with D15.
26:43
From a financial standpoint, when you look at kids relationship,
26:47
the balance or imbalance of work for parenting, how do you deal with money within that dynamic?
26:54
Well, you have to look at both paying the mortgage and raising children as something that you both reap the reward from.
27:03
And you both put into those things respectively throughout a relationship.
27:08
So do you mean, for example, making the pastor is something that's contributing to your kids being fed well to then be healthy, happy, etc.
27:17
Exactly. And say one partner takes less time or spends less time at work,
27:22
or them spending less time at work as a byproduct of them investing their time and energy in the children.
27:30
Both of the parents get to have return on investment from the kids.
27:35
You could say well then the division of property may be the one partner hasn't contributed as much financially to the property by way of money,
27:47
but they've invested in the family in a different way.
27:50
So it goes back to, and both of you enjoy the roof over your head,
27:54
but both of you enjoy fed safe, healthy children.
27:59
So you have to look at it as a return on investment that you both reap the rewards of,
28:05
whether that's a gain from when you sell the house,
28:09
but you also have the return on investment from the kids.
28:13
The kids are like little assets running around.
28:15
Yeah, they're like little assets.
28:16
So you've got to look at the family as an asset.
28:19
And it's not. It's not.
28:21
Woman's work, and I'll call it woman's work, because we all know what I mean by that, unfortunately.
28:27
But it is not valued in the same way, because it is invisible and because it is expected.
28:33
And also because those roles are paid really low.
28:36
If you're a nanny or you're a cleaner, or you're a cook, even like me.
28:40
Or you're a mother and you're not paid at all.
28:42
But there's no value on that.
28:44
But I also mean like what those jobs translate to financially isn't valued,
28:49
particularly highly in society either.
28:51
Like if you're a full-time nanny, it's not the same as what you would earn if you were a lawyer.
28:55
And it's so hard.
28:57
It's such hard work.
28:59
It's such hard work.
29:00
There's also the cost of when you stop working, it's the opportunity cost.
29:05
So it's not just you miss out on a paycheck for six months.
29:08
You miss out on especially, I think, if you are self-employed.
29:13
You know, jobs being offered to you or development in a company.
29:19
The new people that are coming in and taking those jobs.
29:23
There's that fear of being a relevant.
29:25
So that definitely drove me to go back to work sooner as well.
29:29
Absolutely.
29:30
I look at my mom and like it's been so hard for her to get a job after having kids.
29:36
And she's kind of just ended up in retail or sort of admin work.
29:39
And I just think she's so talented she's got so much to offer.
29:42
But unfortunately, like the younger people that have come through,
29:45
you know, it's just it's much more competitive and hard to build.
29:49
I mean, you know, stats around like how hard it is for women to get their salaries back
29:53
to where before they had kids.
29:54
I don't know what it is.
29:55
It takes about 10 years.
29:56
So your salary decreases from four to eight percent when you return to it.
29:59
I mean, this is not self-employed.
30:02
Okay, we start it, but it's self-employed.
30:06
So because you miss out on pay rises, because you're probably, you know,
30:09
because you're not visually there.
30:12
And then also you are probably going to go back part time or less hours.
30:18
And therefore your salary affects that.
30:19
So it takes you on average about 10 years to get back to your pre-pure and hood salary,
30:23
which is absolutely nuts.
30:25
I also thought that when I put my kid in kindie,
30:29
like the first time I was like, great.
30:31
Like those are my guaranteed eight hours a day, whatever, lol.
30:35
You know, they get it is like a petri dish.
30:38
So your kids then get sick and then you are constantly paying for kindie
30:45
and they're never there.
30:47
So I think that you need, unless you can afford a full-time nanny,
30:53
you absolutely need a one flexible guardian.
30:58
And if you don't have that one, I mean, I'm flexible
31:02
and I still lean on family support so much in terms of, you know,
31:08
grandparents, all of that.
31:10
So you really need, and with two kids it's like, you know,
31:15
if one of them's healthy then the other one will be sick.
31:18
So you constantly need somebody with a flexible position
31:21
or you need full-time help.
31:23
I want to be able to, I hope when I have kids I'm in a position where I can afford some kind of help
31:28
because I would love to be able to enjoy, enjoy time with them and look after them
31:34
while also being able to work.
31:36
I think that's something that I would love to have, like the balance that you're trying
31:41
and obviously doing, I know it's supposed to be so hard, but from the outside
31:45
it looks like you're doing very successfully.
31:48
That for me would be the dream to be able to be in a position where I can afford to do both.
31:54
Because you won't be leaving the curve before 5pm, please.
31:58
The kids sick, sorry.
32:00
But I love what you actually just said about being able to afford to do both.
32:05
Because you do need to be able to afford to go to work.
32:08
That's actually something that's glossed over a lot where yes,
32:13
you can look at two working parents as something that is a need,
32:18
like a financial need, but it also is a privilege in a way.
32:22
So you have to be able to afford day care.
32:24
Day care is expensive.
32:25
That's right, me.
32:26
I can't believe how much mesos like day care is.
32:29
And that's a dog.
32:30
Like I can't imagine children.
32:33
So in some way, you know, it is being able to, being able to work,
32:39
having two working parents is a privilege because you need to be able to afford that back up.
32:43
But I think this is also something that a lot of families will come up against in terms of wall.
32:48
It doesn't make financial sense for you to go back to work,
32:51
but then you have a mother who's desperate to invest in herself outside of her children.
32:56
And you can't put a price on that.
32:59
But I'm sure that is the start of mini an argument around,
33:04
well, we can't afford for you to go to work.
33:07
So therefore, you have to be at home with the kids.
33:11
I can't imagine how difficult that would be to have to look after your own children.
33:19
It's, you know, to be denied the opportunity to,
33:23
and your own growth and your own, yeah.
33:26
It's for some people all that they've ever wanted us to be able to set home with their kids full time.
33:31
And like that's also a privilege.
33:35
You know, it's just, I think, I mean, they have to go back to work.
33:38
And they don't want to.
33:39
Yeah.
33:40
Yeah.
33:41
It's, yeah, it's very complex a topic.
33:44
It's funny talking about my dog, which is pretty nice.
33:47
But I remember when she was little and she went to nursery three days away.
33:52
And I was like, from eight to two.
33:54
And I took her one day and shared a bit of a snotty nose.
33:56
Honestly, sounds like my child.
33:58
And they were like, we can't take her today.
34:00
And I instantly went to the panic mode.
34:02
And I was like, but I can't leave her at home.
34:04
And I have to go to work.
34:05
And it was like this realization of it's a fucking dog back, you know?
34:08
But I was like, this is what mothers must have to do every day.
34:11
And then I had to call my dad.
34:13
Can you come look after her?
34:14
Like, I have to go into the office juggling work and family.
34:17
Oh, yeah.
34:18
Yeah.
34:19
Women are super heroes.
34:20
Yeah.
34:21
Like, honestly, super heroes.
34:22
Go us.
34:23
Amy, thank you so much for coming in and talking about this.
34:26
And I think a lot of people listening will feel just like a sigh of relief
34:30
that there's someone that they can relate to and listen to and probably think about
34:34
maybe the situations they're in.
34:35
And if they want them to be different, how they can potentially approach that.
34:38
I know, I just hope I haven't put the fear of God in the area.
34:41
I feel like I've just marked everyone out.
34:43
Must sort my finances.
34:45
Must close my legs.
34:48
Condoms all over.
34:49
Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of Raising the Curve.
34:53
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34:57
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35:02
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35:05
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