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Trump's Legal Eras Tour · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm the ex, formerly known as Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Tommy Guitart.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump is still crushing the field
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: in a pair of Iowa and South Carolina polls that
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: officially qualify multiple candidates for the first debate. The DeSantis
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: campaign has finally landed on a let Ron be Ron strategy.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I feel like we said that. Someone was going to
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: say it.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I said it on the podcast
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: or somewhere else in life, but we've definitely been saying it.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's campaign builds an unconventional operation to take on
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the Republican nominee. And later, New York Congressman Dan Goldman
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: stops by to chat with Tommy about prosecuting Donald Trump.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and the latest House Republican antics around Hunter Biden and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: If you send a direct message on Twitter, is it
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: a DMX? I just think that's important to think about.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Did you see that Microsoft and Meta have the trademark
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: for X?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So X literally not going to give it to you?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: But it's so meta. Can we talk about some news?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But first, no third indictment just yet. Although by the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: time you hear it, who knows? Who knows by the
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: time you hear this?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Let's go, Jack.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Though Judge Aileen Cannon did set a trial date for
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Trump's second indictment, the Republican frontrunner is scheduled to stand
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: trial on May 20th, 2024 for stealing highly classified documents
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: from the White House. Trump's volume of deranged truths has
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: also picked up considerably over the last 48 hours. So
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: maybe something's coming there. He's now sharing posts that accuse
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the government he led of staging the January 6th attack
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: on the Capitol. He also made a threat on an
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Iowa radio show last week that if he's convicted and imprisoned,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: his fans might do something even worse.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: Is it something that concerns you of, you know, of
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: the people making sure that they don't go out of
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: their right mind if something like that happens? Because I
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: know what I'm thinking of could happen if that, for example,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: they do Say Jack Smith says, OK, I'm going to
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: put Donald Trump in jail.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: I think it's a very dangerous thing to even talk
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: about because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: And I mean maybe, you know, maybe 100, 150. I've
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: never seen anything like it. Much more passion than they
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: had in 2020 and much more passion than they had
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: in 2016. I think it would be very dangerous.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Where does the 100 and 150 come from? I just noticed.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that count from?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I like the question is, are you concerned? Are you concerned? Yeah,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: he's really concerned. You can tell. So his message here,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Trump's message here is that the insurrection was a false
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: flag operation that could also happen again if he's held
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: accountable for breaking the law. You guys think we'll hear
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: that defense from his lawyers in court?
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's worth noting that this conspiracy
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: theory that January 6th was a false flag operation, that
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: sort of an FBI plant led everyone to charge the
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Capitol has been around for a while. And a guy
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: named Ray Epps, who was a former member of the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Oath Keepers militia, had to sell his house and move
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: because he was getting threats from other crazy right-wing people
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: who suggested he was some sort of FBI plant. He
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: is absolutely not. There's no evidence to prove prove any
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: of this, but Trump and Steve Bannon, all these guys
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: have latched onto it to push this false flag narrative.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And it's very scary.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Two thoughts.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: One, if you, you can not call it, you can't
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: call this a strategy of any kind, but if it is,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: it is not a legal one. It is just a
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: thrashing PR campaign, uh, to, to, to make, uh, to
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: sort of excite the base and keep Republicans in the fold.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: But what's striking about it to me is, you know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: One thing we've noticed over the years about all these
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: different attorneys who've been involved in sundry Trump investigations is
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: they become so radicalized in favor of prosecution. You see
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: it out of the people that came out of Mueller.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: You see it out of all these different investigations. And
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I just think you're working on this case. There have
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: been death threats against prosecutors. You're working day and night
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: looking at this brazen and ridiculous illegal activity.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: By the former president of the United States. Is it
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: all worth it?
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Should I fight again tomorrow? And then you turn on
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: the television and he's learned nothing. He's doing it even more.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And you just get a subway and you call it
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: a day. Yeah. Get some, get some food. Get a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: tuna footlong.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Look, I just don't think it necessarily helps his case
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to argue that the violent attack was a secret FBI
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: operation or but also threatened that his supporters may do
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: it again if he's convicted. It was an FBI plant,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: but also they might do it again. And this whole,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: it's like he's had so many different, this is where
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: he's going to have some issues when this indictment comes down.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: He's had so many different explanations for January 6th. Like let's,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: on June 22nd of this last year, he said January
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: 6th was not a simple protest. It was not a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: simple protest. It represented the greatest movement in the history
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of our country to make America great again. I had
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: forgotten that he said that.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Well, it's very similar to the conversation he has with
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Brett Baier. You know, he goes on.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: He basically does like improv excuses and lies and justifications.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: But every single one would require a different fact.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Pardon.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Every single one is something a prosecutor can ask him
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: at a trial. So every day he goes out and
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: makes whatever defense attorney is still answering the phones. Life's difficult,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: more difficult every single day. And even, you know, he's
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: getting on the phone with like Stefanik and McCarthy trying
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: to strategize how the House investigations can help him run interference.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: None of that is going to make his legal arguments
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: any stronger. None of that has anything to do with
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: the actual threat he faces from the justice system.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's very scary and it's clearly a threat.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But I think the good news is it's like some
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: of the hardcore MAGA types have been out there saying
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to the other supporters, do not go to these protests.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Do not back him. Do not get violent. Because he
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: hung us all out to dry on January 6th and
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: didn't pardon those people.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And sure enough, there was a pretty small, relatively small
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: crowd outside the courthouse when he was indicted for the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: second time.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It only takes one person. For sure.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: At the height of his powers while in the White
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: House in a violent cause that was explicitly about keeping
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: him in power, not protecting him in front of a courthouse,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: not stopping him even long before he could ever become president.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: What was mustered? It was a violent... attempt.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: To overthrow the government. It hurt a lot of people.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: It caused a lot of damage. But he's got chaos
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: and mayhem support. There's no revolution.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: What do you guys make of the May 2024 trial
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: date for the classified documents indictment?
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: So here's why I think Trump was truthing so angrily.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I think he just figured out what his next year
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: is like.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: And it is.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: It's a rough calendar.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: It's October 2nd, New York civil fraud trial. January 15th,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: 2nd E. Jean Carroll civil defamation trial.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Also the day of the Iowa caucuses.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Also the day of the... Don't forget. It's a big one.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: March 25th, Manhattan hush money trial.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: May 20th, the classified documents trial out of Florida.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: And we still got two indictments left.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: We got Jack Smith in D.C. We got the Georgia case.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: So he's got his... He's heading out on his... Trump's
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: legal heiress tour. You know he's got like a wedding
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: or two also, right?
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Everyone's got a couple weddings. Yeah, everyone's got that. He's
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: got to fit in with this thing. I mean, this
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: is a terrible year.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Well, he's probably going to DJ a few weddings at
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Mar-a-Lago himself.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Right, he's booked. I mean, he's booked to Disney.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I know he's a DJ now.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Look, forget that he was president. Forget everything else. This
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: is a man about to face six independent trials.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking this the other day. It's
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: so annoying. Forget about, yeah, presidents, politicians. Has anyone faced
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: this many trials?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Six trials?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: For separate crimes.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: For separate crimes, yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: For separate crimes in a year?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Like, I assume there's been like.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: We gotta call, this is like, it's getting up, it's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a record.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know how many of the Enron people,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: but like, this is wild.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: So, Jack Smith wanted December of 2023. Trump's lawyers wanted never.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I guess, technically, they said they wanted to postpone indefinitely,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: but certainly after November 2024. Cannon landed in May. But
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of course, it could still be postponed from May 20th.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: It seems very likely it will be postponed. And due to,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: it says, routine pretrial motions, right?
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: The amount of, so according to the New York Times,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the amount of discovery evidence that Trump's lawyers have to
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: go through will include more than a million pages of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: unclassified material, nine months of surveillance camera footage, and 1,500
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: pages of classified documents. They better get to work. It's
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: going to take a minute.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: They better get to work. I wouldn't say that to
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: the last minute.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: That's a lot, yeah.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of, I think, rightful concern
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: that the fact that it landed in Cannon's courtroom was
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: nerve wracking for people that assumed she would do everything
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: she can to help Trump. We don't know yet if
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: what's going to actually unfold, like what she could do.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: She still has a lot of power. You know, she
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: set this date. Maybe it's a date set so that
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: she can postpone it again.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: But when you see these three other cases and the
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: fact that there are two more coming down the pike,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: you start to see that he's going to.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Need a lot more help. The other piece of it is.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: You look at like the primary schedule and We don't
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: know when the Jack Smith or the Georgia cases could land,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: but it does seem like what we're heading towards is
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: a period of time in which while Trump is running
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: for the nomination, he has the microphone. He gets to
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: describe it to voters. He gets to talk over his opponents.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: He gets to continue to define January 6th and his
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: various legal troubles to his adoring fans. But then all
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, perhaps after he has put himself on
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: a path to be the nominee, then the trials begin.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: And then Trump no longer, the one, you know, Trump's
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: approval rating never dropped faster or harder than during the
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: insurrection because he could not overcome the video, the visuals
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: that were coming out of what took place. And now
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden he can talk all he wants.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: but trials look like trials and they have a rhythm
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: all their own.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Look, it's very possible that Republicans nominate someone who will
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: be a convicted felon by the time November of 2024
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: comes around.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: It could happen between him getting enough delegates in the convention. Like,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: it could happen in those months.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And in that scenario, it's possible, if they were a
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: sane party, that Republicans could try to wrest the nomination
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: from him at the convention. But who are we kidding? Look,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: they're moving forward. And this is only, like, it is
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: interesting that the March date for the, I keep forgetting
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: about the Stormy Daniels one. So that trial could take
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a couple weeks and could get a guilty verdict there
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: by April or May.
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: In May.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: If, if Cannon doesn't move it, you know, that's like two, three,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: four week trial.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I think like they said, like six weeks is probably
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the minimum for that trial. So it's pre-convention, which means
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: it doesn't mean the party has time to remove him
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: as the nominees. You're not officially nominated until I think
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: July 18th is the final day of the Republican convention.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It won't happen.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: We are not that lucky. This is just, not forget
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: about that. Just to see the fight. How fun would
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the fight be?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: It would be a great fight.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: But like, I think what I'm taking away from seeing
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: all these different trials unfolding is, I.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Don't know how lucky we have to be. That's the first.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: The other part of it, too, is once you add
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: you add the Jack Smith case, you add the Georgia case.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And even if the trial, one of them slips, we're
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: still staring at a spring, summer and fall where potentially
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: the dominant issue in front of voters is the most
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: unsavory and unpopular position Trump has ever taken. which is
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: I don't really support democracy. It'll become central to the campaign.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Those images side by side, Trump on trial for insurrection
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: and Biden campaigning, I don't know, on a road, with
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: a road and a shovel.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: It's pretty good. Some candidates do Medicare Advantage plan rollouts
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: or foreign policy speeches. Donnie's doing indictments and perp walks.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Those are his message events.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: You think there'll be a step and repeat behind him
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: outside the courtroom?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Well, which court? You know what I mean? Because they're
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: all going to want their own branding.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: One is, well, I was going to say, any swing
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: state court? Yeah, I guess the Georgia, he could spend
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: time campaigning.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow. Really make sure it's got two birds. Commit
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a Wisconsin crime, Eckstein, you idiot.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Also, Trump's got a new lawyer said he wants Trump
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: wants cameras in the courtroom. It could just be something
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to say because he knows that they probably won't allow
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: cameras in the courtroom. And then they'll say, oh, Trump
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: wanted it. He wanted people to see what was going
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: on there. How great would that be?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: They just watched that great new show, Jury Diddy.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Cameras in the courtroom for this try would be amazing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, please. How do you do in the classified documents?
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: It's all confusing.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: That's why it's got to be really tough.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: That one's tough.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So most of Trump's primary opponents still refuse to entertain
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the idea that he may have broken the law by
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: attempting a coup. And some are even pretending that January
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: 6th wasn't really an insurrection. Here's Tim Scott, Mike Pence,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and Ron DeSantis.
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: I hold.
• 13:05
  Speaker 8: the folks who broke into the Capitol with ill will
• 13:08
  Speaker 8: in their hearts, destroying property, responsible for their actions. I
• 13:12
  Speaker 8: don't hold the former president who didn't show up at
• 13:15
  Speaker 8: the Capitol and started my life as responsible.
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: While his words were reckless, based on what I know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal. President Trump
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: was wrong on that day and he's still wrong in
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: asserting that I had the right to overturn the election.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: But what his intentions were, and as you know, criminal
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: charges have everything to do with intent, what the president's
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: state of mind was. And I don't honestly know what
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: his intention was that day.
• 13:43
  Speaker 9: It was not an insurrection. These are people that were
• 13:46
  Speaker 9: there to attend a rally and then they were there
• 13:48
  Speaker 9: to protest. Now, it devolved and it devolved into a riot.
• 13:53
  Speaker 9: But the idea that this was a plan to somehow
• 13:56
  Speaker 9: over to overthrow the government of the United States is
• 13:59
  Speaker 9: not true. And it's something that the media had spun up.
• 14:02
  Speaker 9: If somebody is honestly doing an insurrection against the U.S. government,
• 14:07
  Speaker 9: then prove that that's the case. And I'll be happy
• 14:09
  Speaker 9: to accept it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Well, they've proved it many times. That's why they're all
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: in fucking jail.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: That is wild.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: The most galling part of that is Mike Pence saying
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: he didn't know what Trump's intentions were. Yeah, you did, dude.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: You talked to him. You're one of the very few
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: people who got to talk to him.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: His intentions were that he tried to kill you.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you just don't have the guts to share
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: what you learned.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Well, also remember, for some reason, this made me think
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of the Kevin McCarthy phone call. Remember, McCarthy calls Trump
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the attack, and he's like, they're
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: trying to kill me. And then Donald Trump's like, well, Kevin...
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I guess they're angrier about the results of the election
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: than you are, huh? And then he's like, they're fucking
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: trying to kill me. They all knew what the intention was.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And also the Jack Smith case is not about just
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: January 6th of the day. It's about the sprawling effort
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: to overturn the election. But what we just heard there
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: to me is a story. It's like compounding political cowardice, right?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Like McConnell wouldn't impeach. You just talked about the Kevin
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: McCarthy phone call. Right after that, he said that Trump
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: bears responsibility, that Congress should censure him. And then he
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: went crawling back down to Mar-a-Lago to kiss the ring
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: when he realized he needed Trump to get the votes
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: to be speaker. So now here we are in a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: 2015 style conundrum where none of Trump's opponents will actually
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: attack him for leading an insurrection because they all are
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: trying to like win some sliver of his voters by
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: taking oblique shots or running to the right of him
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: on policy. And it's failing miserably.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: How about hopeful, optimistic candidate Tim Scott setting the bar at, well,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: he didn't come try to kill me personally at the Capitol,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: so I do not hold him responsible. Anyone who doesn't
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: try to murder me.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: It's okay.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I would like to say, in defense of Senator Tim Scott.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: We have the Tim Scott spin zone over here.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: It's Timmy time. You guys, buckle your seatbelts because we're
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: on a rocket ship.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: But the.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Check out those Iowa polls.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: We'll get to it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: We're going to get to that. But feel the G-forces.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Feel the G-forces. But he does say as responsible.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Now, here's the sad part of the question.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: That means he's responsible.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: They clearly think this is the only way they can
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: win the Republican nomination, those three, if they genuinely think
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: they can win the Republican nomination, which I presume they
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: still do, because they're spending all this time on the race.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Are they right?
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: No.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Iowa poll. Because I think that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: tells the story. There's a new Iowa poll out. I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: don't know the numbers in front of me, but I
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: assume John does in the intro to this segment.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure. We got Trump 46, Ron DeSantis 16,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Tim Scott 11, Vivek Ramaswamy 6, and Nikki Haley 5.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: So this is the Tim Scott rocket ship. He's in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: double digits in Iowa. That's two digits. We've doubled in digits, baby.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: But it seems clear to me that all of the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: support that's going to Tim Scott and others is coming
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: from Ron DeSantis. No one is chipping away Trump here.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: He's still doing great. So no, it's not working. They're
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: fighting each other just like 2015. It's definitely not working
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But when you look at the polls of how Republican
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: voters feel about January 6th, 32% of Republican voters approve
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: of what happened on January 6th. So that's fortunately low.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: That's a lot.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: That's unfortunately low. Well, I'm going to get to something worse.
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: Okay, good.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Only 14% of Republicans describe Trump as very responsible for
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: January 6th compared to 45% of all voters. This was
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: a Politico poll. from earlier this year. They did a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: bunch of polls around the anniversary and then they haven't
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: done any since on January 6th. I'm sure we'll get
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: more soon. In total, only 31% of Republican voters said
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Trump was very or somewhat responsible for January 6th, even
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: though 59% of all voters assigned that level of responsibility
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to Trump. Q poll from December, only 9% of Republicans
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: think Trump's attempt to overturn the election was a crime.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: 81% say it wasn't criminal.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: And it's worth noting too that- since the numbers have
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: slowly shifted, and it depends on how you ask the question,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: but roughly two-thirds of Republicans believe that the election wasn't
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: legitimately decided at this point.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: They sort of have bought.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Into this, and it's sort of part of the hallmark
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: of this era, which is when someone like Ron DeSantis
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: is asked that question, is he saying what he believes
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: that the base of the party also believes, or is
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: he doing a shibboleth and signaling to them that he's
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: not going to give into the mainstream narrative because he
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: understands that we're all in this fight together to protect,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: you know, to protect Trump or whatever it may be,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: because none.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Of us can really, we can't tell these.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Is there a difference?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: There isn't a difference. There isn't a difference in practice,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: but I do think it's like, it's right. Cause he's
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: not saying, this is what I believe. He's saying, look
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: at how I fight.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: I just think it's all a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like No
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: one believes the thing I won't make an argument for. Well,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: of course not. Now, am I saying that I would
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: make this the thrust of my campaign if I were
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: running against Trump? Absolutely not. I'd probably answer honestly and
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: as briefly as I could. And then to the extent
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: this is part of my argument, it would be to
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: me about electability. Like, look, most of the country blames
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: this guy for the insurrection. That's the last image they
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: saw of him as president. That's why he can't win.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I would do. But yeah, I mean, I
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: get the challenges.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Totally could do that. That would have been a great answer.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: When no one's fighting, no one's making the case. Not
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: that I want him to give that answer. No one's
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: softening the ground. It's rock solid.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: It's another collective action issue, too, because all these Republican
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: politicians in private would probably say, this is what the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: base thinks. Look at these poll numbers, right? Where do
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you think Republican voters take their cues from? They take
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: their cues from the leaders of the party and from
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the people that the idiots that they see on TV
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: who are also lying about this shit. So if that's
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: all they ever hear, of course, these polls are going
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to be.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: They can also look at Chris Christie, who has been
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: out there trying to make the argument.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And what's what's happened? Trump's numbers hasn't moved. His numbers
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: haven't moved.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: The only thing that's happened is more and more Republicans,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: when asked the question, say that he's an unpalatable candidate,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the only person they couldn't vote for.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's risen in the polls a little bit too.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's not Tim Scott, but he's doing okay.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: He's only a couple points behind Tim Scott. Well, so
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: as Tommy pointed out, whatever the other candidates are doing,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be working. We heard the Iowa
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: poll from Fox. There is also a South Carolina poll
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: that they released. That's Trump 48, Haley 14, DeSantis 13,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Scott 10, Mike Pence, four. Notice I didn't mention Mike
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Pence in the Iowa poll because he was under Nikki
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy at six and five. So these
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: results from these two polls officially qualify Trump, DeSantis, Haley, Ramaswamy, Scott,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and Chris Christie for the first debate a month from now.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence and Doug Burgum insist they'll qualify, but they
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: haven't yet. Pence hasn't yet because he doesn't have the
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: donors yet, though he does have the polls. And Burgum
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: has the donors, but he doesn't yet have the polls.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: It's weird that you need the donors and the polls.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you just need the polls? I don't know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. I guess because polls are like,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: it's hard to trust polls and like donors are like
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: real actual people.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I guess it's the sign of some sort of enthusiasm.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I think the incentive structure has really clearly has fucked up.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Because Doug Burgum is just buying donors at $ 20 a pop.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 20:58
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: What do you guys make of these polls? So 30
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: point lead in Iowa with six months to go. What
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: do you think, Tommy?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I want to tell you my favorite part
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of this poll is that, we'll talk about the debate later,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: but Fox slipped in a question about what you think
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: it means for a presidential candidate to skip the debate.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: 59% said it shows a candidate's weakness rather than strength, 27%.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: That's just hilarious that Fox is like, we're hosting the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: first debate. Don't you think it's weak if you skip it?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Also, though, how cowardly to phrase the question like that
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: instead of saying, What do you think about Trump skipping
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the debate?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Right, which probably would have gotten a totally different answer.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Right, because they wouldn't have got it that way.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Right, would have flipped it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think both these polls show Trump is
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: in very firm lead and that Ron DeSantis is hemorrhaging support.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: And I think there's room for other people to have
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: these little mini boomlets. But it's humiliating for Mike Pence,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: like you said. Four in 10 voters in the Iowa
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: poll said they couldn't support him at all, ever. I mean,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: that is just devastating.
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: He's done.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Trump gets... The education divide was per usual in the
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Republican Party and in the electorate the starkest in both
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: these polls. Trump in Iowa gets 57 percent of those
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: without a college degree, only 33 percent of voters with.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And the challenge for all these other candidates is within
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the Republican electorate, it's just an electorate that is more
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: non-college educated than it is college educated. And that is
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: especially true in a state like Iowa. It is especially
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: true in South Carolina. It's not as true in New Hampshire,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: which is why that's probably of the three states Trump's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: worst state currently, even though he's still kicking ass. Trump's
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: other best groups, voters under age 35, it's interesting that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: young people are one of his best groups, very conservative
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: voters and voters who rarely attend religious services, though in
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: South Carolina... white evangelicals are one of his strongest groups.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So it's one of those things where across all categories, religious,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not religious, old.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Young, he's just winning.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Well, on the young front, it's a self-selecting group of people.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: The kind of young people that are Republicans in the
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: state of Iowa are going to be a pretty conservative bunch.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: But it actually more points to the other problem a
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: lot of these candidates have, which is at least in 2016,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: there was a lane for going after more conservative and
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: evangelical voters. But this poll found that across Iowa and
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: South Carolina, The evangelical numbers track the main polling.
• 23:11
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: The biggest issue that people care about, though, in the
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Iowa one was defeating Joe Biden and not on issues,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: which again makes you wonder, hey, Ron DeSantis, why are
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: you running to the right of Trump on all these
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: random issues instead of going after his electability?
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: You moron.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Well, this is why it's like that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: The only sin that has turned Republicans against Trump over
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: the years has been the sin of him not being electable,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: the sin of him losing.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And The fact that.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: They're not saying that these indictments are a sign that
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: he can't win, that no one's making that argument, even
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: DeSantis after his reboot will get to it, but he's
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: not even making that argument.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: They are advancing Trump's message, right? By saying that, like,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: even though they're trying to say, well, I'm just focused
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: on the weaponization of the Justice Department and the two-tiered system.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: That's Trump's message. That's Trump's central message about his indictments.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Here's where you're going to get excited, Lovett. Tim Scott,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: most opportunity to grow in Iowa. Only 12% say they'd
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: never back him, which is the lowest of the major candidates.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: 90% are open to him. And he is drawing from
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: a wide range of demographics. So he's drawing from moderates
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: and from very conservative.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Everybody loves Tim Scott. Tim Scott loves everyone.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Everyone except for like the 80s, 90% who's back in
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the day.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: They don't dislike Tim Scott. They just have two great options.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: They've got two great options. I think a quarter of
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: them said they didn't know enough about him to make
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: a decision.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: To think about the privilege of being an Iowa Republican
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: where you can choose between people as great as Trump
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: and Scott, right? With DeSantis as your third choice, how
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: cool is that?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: How cool is that?
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: It's like there's like a Chili's, a Cheesecake Factory, and
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: an Olive Garden right there at the side of the road.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: We were talking about this earlier before we started recording,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: but it is interesting to me that in South Carolina,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: DeSantis has slipped to third, but it's not because Scott's
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: in second, it's because Haley's in second. My guess is
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that she was a very popular governor there, and people
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: know their governors a little bit better than they know
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: their senators, but that's my only guess.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: She also launched her campaign first, she did a bunch
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: more events there, so who knows.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: So Trump aides said to the Washington Post over the weekend,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: it's unlikely he's going to change his mind about skipping
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the first debate. despite pleas from his favorite Fox hosts,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and not just privately, they're doing it on the air, apparently.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: It's so pathetic.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I know, in addition to those polling questions that Tommy mentioned.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think are the political dynamics of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a debate without Trump that it seems like we are
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: careening towards?
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Don't you imagine that he'll just hold his own big
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: event and counter-program it and try to steal all of
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: their thunder? He's threatening that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I think they've threatened that, and they said, like, maybe
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: he might sit down with Tucker for Tucker's show to counter-program.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, not a show on X. X, yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Well, the point Trump made is, why would I do
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the debate? I'll just increase the ratings.
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And then Fox is playing into that argument by being like,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: please come do the debate. We need the ratings.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And then he's smart enough to know that he'll just
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: watch a bunch of B-team candidates attack each other instead
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: of him and look like the B-team.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: And like, and Ramaswamy and Chris Christie have been out
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: there being like, Trump's afraid to debate us.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: If he's such a strong... Oh, Ramaswamy's been saying that too.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Ramaswamy said it as well. No, Ramaswamy said it
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: in the best way. He said, he said, um, It
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: looks like Trump might be afraid.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I sure hope not. Doesn't seem like him. Something like that.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: He could be a surprise, like, quote unquote, star of
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the debate without Trump on the stage because that guy
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't have much to lose and he's just sort of
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: swinging for the fences. I'm interested to see, like, how
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: much time Christie spends going after Trump. Does Christie also
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: try to light up DeSantis? Does anyone else try to
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: light up DeSantis if Trump's not there because he's still
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: number two and you might as well go after him? Like,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: what happens?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I think Christie not only goes after Trump, but calls
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: out everyone else for not having the courage to go
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: after Trump, which we'll see how that goes.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: And then what happens? And then do they... do they
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: just like pivot or do they, do they defend someone, defend,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: defend Trump? And that's so embarrassing.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I don't, well, like if it weren't for, if you put,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: if you, if Ramaswamy wasn't on the stage, you would think,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: all right, this debate is Chris crispy, Chris Christie, Chris crispy,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Chris crispy versus everybody else. And he's going to make
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: that case against them. But with Ramaswamy, there is sort
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: of like a chaos agent. And then you have to
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: think DeSantis, Haley, Scott, someone up there is going to
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: come with a plan that is ready for what to
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: do when Chris Christie does that kind of a broadside
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: against the whole field and take it. But I don't
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: know if it can be, it can't just be defend Trump.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: So you have to think Ron DeSantis, Ron DeSantis has
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: to do a version in front of the debate audience
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: of the argument for basically, you know, get things done,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Trump without the chaos. He has to kind of make
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: that case. And that's the The question is how hard
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: he does it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I think you just go with like the Ronald Reagan
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: 11th commandment. Thou shalt not attack other Republicans bullshit that
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: everyone's used to and coming together for unity and being
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden.
• 27:43
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I could see Tim Scott and Doug Burgum doing that too.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of fighting up here, but I think
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: we're fighting too much and we need to look forward.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I can't see Doug Burgum doing much of anything. Honestly,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: if he was right here, I wouldn't.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: He is here.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: He's been here. Sitting quietly.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's dropping off our gift cards.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: We should actually, honestly, we should bankrupt Doug Burgum. We
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: should all take the $ 20 and donate the dollar. Why
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: are we doing that?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know. So DeSantis slipping to third place
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: for the first time in that South Carolina poll. is
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: just one of the many shitty headlines for his campaign lately.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Lots of stories about shake-ups and reboots over the weekend
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: that have all the campaign classics. We got a donor
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: telling Politico it's time to let Ron be Ron. We
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: got a new media strategy that they're calling DeSantis is everywhere.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It's a threat.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: We got the campaign.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: It's like something you have to clean up.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: The campaign blowing through cash on private planes and fancy hotels.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: We got infighting between the campaign and the super PAC.
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: Meanwhile.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: The campaign briefly retweeted another bizarre video over the weekend
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: that ends with a neo-Nazi symbol superimposed on a Florida flag.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: And the candidate spent the weekend threatening to sue Bud
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Light for sending a beer to a trans person. And
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: he tried to explain a line in his state's new
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: education curriculum that reads this. Quote, instruction includes how slaves
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: develop skills which, in some instances, could be applied for
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: their personal benefit. Here's DeSantis' response to that curriculum, followed
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: by a fiery denunciation from Vice President Kamala Harris.
• 29:29
  Speaker 9: These are the most robust standards in African American history,
• 29:33
  Speaker 9: probably anywhere in the country. I think that they're probably
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: gonna show some of the folks that eventually parlayed being
• 29:42
  Speaker 9: a blacksmith into doing things later in life.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: How is it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: That anyone could suggest that in the midst of these atrocities,
• 29:55
  Speaker 8: that there was any.
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: Benefit to being subjected to this level of dehumanization.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: So it seems like the DeSantis reboot is off to
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: a strong start, huh? Of all of these DeSantis imploding
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: stories and details, of which there were many to comb through,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: which do you guys think are most politically consequential and
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: which are just fun to mock?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do think we, like, this... comment he
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: made about slavery is one of the dumbest, most offensive,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: like straight out of the lost cause revisionist history narrative
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: things that I've ever heard a politician do. I know
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: obviously it was his board of education, but they did
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: it because of his stupid stop woke act. And it's
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: just worth saying that even the examples that the Florida
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: department of education held up as, uh, uh, individuals who
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: benefited from slavery, many of them were never enslaved. One
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of them was a poet and a writer. Uh, not
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of slaves were taught how to read and
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: write during slavery. So it's just like, it's outrageous on
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: its face. It's frankly why critical race theory gets taught
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: in the first place. So I do think it's just
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: worth putting a stamp on what Kamala Harris said there
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: and like explaining how outrageous this is.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I also want to say about that too. There's a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: lot of, uh, pro DeSantis pundits on, uh, on X, uh,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: arguing about how this was out of context. And they're like,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: look at the whole curriculum. Look at it. And it's like, yes.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: The entire curriculum does explicitly call for kids to learn
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: about the many horrors of slavery. But still, why do
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: you include that line? Why does anyone need to be
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: taught that, oh, there were some skills that were useful
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: later on? Why else would you teach that if not
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: for to like.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It's apology. It's to apologize for slavery.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: There were some silver linings. There were some silver linings.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: It's also bullshit. Again, his example is a blacksmith. People
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: across Africa knew how to... forge iron and other metals
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: before slavery. You know the famous bronze statues that the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: British looted and took to their museums? Those were created
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: in the 16th century.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: It also doesn't matter if you picked up a fucking
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: skill while you were being raped and tortured and dehumanized.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It's wrong. It's offensive. It's outrageous.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Listen, I just want to add my two cents to this,
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: which I also believe that slavery was morally reprehensible and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: indefensible completely.
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: Here we are.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: And as Will Hurd, who's almost at 1% in some
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: of these polls, Just made the point simply, which is no,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: slavery was not a jobs program run, which I thought
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: was pretty good.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie also attacked him for it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's incredible.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: But I do think that like, this is part of
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: like DeSantis thought that this anti-woke thing was his ticket
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: to being like the Republican standard bearer, the person that
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: could replace Trump, his way into the hearts of like
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: the kind of rabid base.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Of the party.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: But he keeps getting dragged into these ridiculous and embarrassing
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: and extremist controversies that make him seem unelectable and undermines
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: his main argument, his main thrust for why he could
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: beat Trump.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he made his bed here.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like this another crazy sort of Doomer edgelord video
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that had the Nazi symbol at the end. Like all
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of this shit, the curriculum, the New York Times had
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: a little story, a little detail that the A homophobic
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: slash homoerotic ad was actually made by a DeSantis staffer.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Made in house.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, made in house. All these things, I think, deeply
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: hurt him in a general election, should he ever get there.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Just too online.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: And of course, in your too online, too bubbly right-wing campaign,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: of course, your young video staffers are the most online
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: of them all, making this absolutely incomprehensible and hateful fucking gibberish.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: That you're spreading on the Internet because it because it
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: makes you and a few other Reddit trolls fucking laugh.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And like this narrative generally that his campaign is a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: mess and out of control. It's just a massive distraction
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and it's infecting everything they do. And as Dan said,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the media wants a blood sacrifice. They want like the
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: campaign manager fired. It doesn't like look like Ron is
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: ready to do that. But his whole argument was like, hey, guys,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Trump, but I'm competent. You know, I can execute.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: No chaos, no baggage.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: You can't run your own campaign. And the profligate spending,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were having some donor retreat. They held
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: it at something called the Stein Erickson Lodge in Deer Valley.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: We're recording this on Monday, July 24th. The cheapest room
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: available tonight is $ 540. When we held a retreat like
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: this in 2007, it was in fucking Des Moines.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Is Deer Valley not one of the 99 counties in Iowa?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: That looks nice. Are there caucus goers that hang out
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: in Deer Valley?
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Like, what are you doing out there?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, also the fact that his fundraising, while, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: it was decent, was heavily, heavily dependent on very, very
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: wealthy donors.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Maxed out donors.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Who now can't give again. And now they're blowing through
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: all of that money on private planes because the candidate
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and his wife prefer traveling on private planes. and fancy hotels.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: But then later in the story, you find out in
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the New York Times that the candidate and his wife
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: were also very surprised that they had spent that much money.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet. I bet they were. How do they
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: think they got to Deer Valley? Yeah. Hey, this Southwest
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: flight is nice.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess we got the A ticket. We go right.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: To the runway. That's neat.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Is that A group plus?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. I will have a hot compress. Thank you.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: And then you mentioned this too. I mean, he has
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: like a super PAC with what, like 120 something million
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: dollars that they're sitting on, but they can't even coordinate.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Like our campaign finance system is so broken and terrible.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: You're not allowed to coordinate with a super PAC if
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: you're a federal campaign, but everyone does it through like
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: unofficial statements and memos and shit. And the DeSantis campaign
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: put out a memo attacking the super PAC for not
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: spending more money in New Hampshire.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I believe. Not putting any ads on the air up
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: in New Hampshire yet.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And then it came out that the campaign manager freelanced
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: and did that without telling the rest of the staff. Like,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: everything is leaking.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Not only did they not listen to the campaign memo,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the Super PAC did not get the memo, did not
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: get the hint from the memo that said, we will
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: not cede New Hampshire, which was a hint to them
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to go up on New Hampshire. They said, fuck you,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: we're not going to do it. Ron DeSantis did an
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: interview with Fox where they asked him about his positive ads.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And he's like, you know what? I don't control the
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: super PAC, but pretty soon they should be lighting up
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the air with some real positive ads about me. They
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: have not done that.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I imagine they're going to be lighting up the airways
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: pretty soon with a lot of good stuff about me,
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: and that's going to give us a great lift. Since then,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: the super PAC has not aired a positive ad.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Or gone up in New Hampshire.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: It's very like, can you tell the super PAC that
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: I'm mad at them? And the super is like, well,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: we know you're mad at us, but we don't care
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: because we're going to do what we think is right.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, well, well, can you just tell them
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: that we heard that and we don't accept it? And
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: we really appreciate some positive ads.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: It's just one more great quote from the campaign manager
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: in a memo that we have to talk about. All
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: DeSantis needs to drive news and win this primary is
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: a mic and a crowd. We need to hear Ron
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: DeSantis more. Meanwhile, every one of those wackity videos. Give
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: him a mic in a crowd.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: The best answer, Ron DeSantis, you never hear his voice.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: As part of one of these various reboot stories, I
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: thought this statement from the spokesperson was revealing. The media
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: and D.C. elites have already picked their candidates, Joe Biden
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: and Donald Trump. Ron DeSantis has never been the favorite
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: or the darling of the establishment, and he has won
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: because of it every time.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: He's literally, most of his fundraising is because the richest
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: part of the Republican establishment pitched in.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: And it just goes to like, who do you think
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: you're talking to?
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Who is going to buy into that argument?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: You know the DC media elites love Donald Trump.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: What person that pays attention at all to any of
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: this is like, ugh, I'm sick of these establishment candidates.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Like Donald Trump. Andrew Romero, I think is the spokesman.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: It's like 12 different versions of the same Baghdad Bob quote.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: It's just absolute nonsense. But it's just like, okay, you
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: can do any reboot you want. What is your argument?
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: What argument are you changing? You've been out there for
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: a long time. Okay, what more do you want?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to do a whole other section on
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: DeSantis today, but he's given us no choice.
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: No.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: The reboot, shake-up, embarrassing stories, they just keep coming. We'll
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: try to hold off on DeSantis for a while. We'll see.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Will we?
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. Maybe he won't make news.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: The voters are.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Biden campaign is feeling confident, and they're building
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a somewhat unconventional operation to take on the Republican nominee.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: The Washington Post did a deep dive on what they're
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: calling the hidden Biden campaign, which is a move to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: outsource a lot of their operation to the DNC, state parties,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: state organizations, outside groups. Politico reports that the Biden campaign
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: is also feeling hopeful about flipping North Carolina for the
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: first time since Obama did in 2008. And Axios notes
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: that the Republican arguments against Biden on crime, immigration and
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: inflation are starting to crumble, even as the president's approval
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: ratings are still stuck in the low 40s. Let's start
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: with the Post story. The operation that it describes is
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: very different from the campaigns we worked on. What do
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: you make of the strategy?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it seems to me to be entirely driven
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: by fundraising. We talked about this when Biden's fundraising numbers
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: came out. But in 2014, the Supreme Court ruled that
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: they changed campaign finance law that struck down limits on
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: the aggregate amount a person could donate to federal candidates
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: and to political party committees. So before that ruling, your
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: donation to candidates' parties and political committees was capped at $ 123, 000.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Now there's no limit. So if you can work through
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: the DNC and other state and party organizations, you can
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: go to big donors and say, hey, can you cut
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: us a $ 900, 000 check and raise a lot of money
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: pretty fast that way, as opposed to raising $ 3, 300 for
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: the primary, $ 3, 300 for the general, which is what you
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: can get directly into Biden's presidential campaign itself. So it
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: seems like that's why they're doing this. I think there's
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: an obvious upside there. The risk is, that sounds very
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: challenging to coordinate, to me.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd need a, I mean, look, an incumbent of
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: either party running for re-election is always basically going to
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: control the DNC or the RNC, but the coordination has
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: always been a bit of a challenge. Trump did this, though,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: in 2016 and 2020 with the RNC. The RNC basically
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: ran the whole campaign. Most of the staffers were there.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Most of the field operation was run out of the RNC.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I remember in 2012, even though we still had a
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: big operation in Chicago, the DNC was still, for all
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: intents and purposes, working for the Obama campaign. So this
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: is just like. now the DNC is basically under the
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Biden operation doing everything, polling, research, message testing. It's basically
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: not separate. It's like part of the campaign. And legally,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: all you need to do is to make sure whatever
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: you're doing benefits Democrats and not just Biden. So anything
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that DNC does just has to throw in Democrats too,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: just for legal purposes.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: And you've seen that, like this is a, this is
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: sort of, you've seen ads like this and this has
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: been a part of campaigns for a while because even
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: before the limits were raised, you could still donate more
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: to the DNC than you could to an individual campaign.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: And so a lot of times you'll see an ad
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: and it will say, thanks to Joe Biden and the Democrats,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: we're investing in infrastructure. And that's an ad that can
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: be paid for at a DNC. So it seems like
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: it's an extension of that and just trying to turn
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: a bug into a feature. Because one other piece of
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: this that could be good for the long term is
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: instead of a campaign being stood up and then taken
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: down every four years, instead you could be building the
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: infrastructure at the DNC, which could be used in future
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: presidential campaigns and other campaigns.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good argument for it. I mean, Look,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: historically speaking, the DNC has been at times very effective
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and at times very ineffective. And I think that's kind
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: of the challenge is, you know, when you start a campaign,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: you build it from scratch. You bring in all the
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: leadership and all the staff and the culture. And sometimes
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: it's harder to change the culture of a place that
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: already exists. So that'll be that and coordinating with these
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: state campaigns. Like if every state party was like Wisconsin,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: we would win 50 states, but it's not. Yeah, the
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: other piece of this too is.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, these were people with long relationships
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: with the broader Democratic Party. In 2008, Barack Obama is
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: running an insurgent campaign building his own organization, which is
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: a different thing. And so, yes, this works very well
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: in a re-election bid for an incumbent Democratic president, but
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: it'd be harder in future elections.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and the only other thing we haven't mentioned
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: is for an incumbent, the most important strategic decisions on
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: a campaign still happen within the White House. So even
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: though in 2012, we had a large sprawling organization in
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Chicago and all over the country, like David Plouffe and
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Pfeiffer and everyone else were still in the White House
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and Legally there, you can work on the campaign in
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: your free time. And also there are many functions which
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: just aren't technically, you know, one or the other. And
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: so most of the high-level strategic campaign decisions were still
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: made in the White House consulting the campaign in Chicago.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: The concept of free time in a White House job
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: is very funny. Also, federal campaigns, you get better rates
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: on TV ads than like Super PACs do, for example.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And that's actually a big advantage down the stretch when
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it's a really crowded ad market. So we'll see how
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: they handle that.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think of the argument that North
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Carolina could be the Arizona or Georgia of this cycle?
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: You mean a place that keeps me up at night?
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I'm in. I'm in on it.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I'd like to have one more state keeping me up
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: at night. That just increases our odds.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I know. I'm saying.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: Biden roughly halved the margin in 2020 in North Carolina.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: One fact about North Carolina, they added about between 2016
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: and 2020, they added about $ 2 million. new potential voters,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: both young people aging into the voting pool and people
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: moving in from out of state.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: That has continued.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: And so every year, North Carolina starts to look a
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: little bit more like, say, Virginia. Meanwhile, we are in
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: a race to find states where we can win as
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: things get harder and harder in some of the states
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: we've talked about, like Ohio and other places like that.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Obama won North Carolina in 2008. Biden lost
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: by 1.4% in 2020. I'm very much in favor of
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: playing offense there. I mean, Roy Cooper is a popular governor.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: He can't run again, but he's a known quantity, and
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: he can run around the state and make the case.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: North Carolina passed a 12-week abortion ban, which I suspect
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: is very unpopular, and they might run a bona fide
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: crazy person named Mark Robinson for governor. He's currently the
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: lieutenant governor, and that might help. You're right, Lovett, there's
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: been a lot of growth, population growth in urban and
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: suburban areas that are favorable to Democrats. I did see
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: some weird numbers recently. voter registration that were not good
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Republicans have done better than Democrats and voter registration in
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: North Carolina since 2020 so that ours have gained 6,000
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: voters while Democrats lost more than 175,000. I don't know
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: what happened there.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I don't either but it There is a trend with
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of these southern states in voting registration where
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Democrats lose voters who are like, you know Republicans are
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: in every way but their party registration and they finally
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: switch over right yeah it's like the realignment there but
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: i should look into that the interesting thing about 20
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: and biden doing better in 20 than 16 is trump
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: had a much better electorate in north carolina in 20
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: than he did in 16 there was higher a higher
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: percentage of republicans turned out there was higher white turnout
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: and higher rural turnout and he still did worse than
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: he did in 16 against clinton and that was mostly
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: because of these democratic gains in urban and suburban counties
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: uh which is where all the hope was always based
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: in North Carolina, that the urban and suburban areas, the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: research triangle and everything, which is the population growth there,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: would end up doing what happened in Georgia for Democrats.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: The Mark Robinson thing is also what I think Democrats
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: are hoping for as the nominee, just because he is,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned the 12-week abortion ban. He's for
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a total abortion ban completely, and he's opposed to same-sex marriage.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: He's a kook.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: So he's a, yeah, he's a legitimate kook. And so
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: these are all reasons why it could flip. The reason
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: North Carolina is so tough and has been so tough
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: It is the second largest rural population in the United States,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: right behind Texas.
• 45:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: And it's also really expensive. I did not realize it
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: was the fourth most expensive state in terms of ad
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: spend for Joe Biden at the end of the 2020 campaign. Yeah.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: $ 47 million.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: It is expensive. And then in those rural counties, right,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: like Democrats are going to continue to get crushed. But
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: if we get crushed less... then it's a huge deal.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And Joe Biden in 20, a lot of the places
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: that he won, he just, he, he did less bad
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: than Hillary Clinton did in some of these Trumpier rural counties. And,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: you know, we had Anderson Clayton on who's the young
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: chair of the democratic party in North Carolina. And this
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: is why part of her strategy is just like visiting
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: every single rural county, trying to find every Democrat there
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: and registering them to vote.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: But at this point in the campaign, you're going to
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: tell reporters that you're going to compete 100% everywhere. But
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: if we were giving the Biden team truth serum, I
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: bet they'd admit that down the stretch, maybe you peel
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: back some spending from Florida, which seems a little tougher
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: unless they get one of those ballot initiatives on. They're
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: trying to get legalized marijuana and reverse the six week
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: abortion ban. That would, I think, change the political calculus
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: in Florida. But absent that, Florida is a tough state.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you'd want to... I'd rather compete in North
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Carolina than Florida.
• 46:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: By a lot. Let's listen to what Florida's been telling us.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: They don't like us anymore.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Why do you think Biden's approval is still stuck in
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: the low 40s, even though crime's down, border crossing's down,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: inflation's falling? Come on, isn't it morning in America? What's
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Let's just hope polling's a lagging indicator.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's possible. Also, people might... People are probably still
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: not feeling the economic recovery from inflation just yet, I
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: would say, too.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the data is slowly trickling in. I mean, the
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: hopeful answer is lagging indicator. There's all this good economic news.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: It'll take some time to seep in. The worrisome answer
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: would be they have concerns about his age. For example,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: that's probably the thing you hear about the most from
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: people in casual conversations.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: And that's not falling.
• 47:32
  Speaker 10: No.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: No, that number is not falling. No, it's steady.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: It's rising steadily. The other piece of it too is, look,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: inflation coming down, very important. Inflation coming down doesn't suddenly
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: make everything more affordable. And it doesn't make things go
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: back to how they felt in terms of how far
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: your income could go six months or a year ago.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: It stops the pain. It stops the change.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And I also think just on approval ratings, like polarization
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: now means just, it's hard to see a president getting
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: consistently above mid 40s these days, even if you were
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: party supports you because the other party does not in
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: any way, not as much as they, as they used to,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: used to find like, you know, 10, 15, 20% of
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: people in the other party who supported the president of
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: the opposite party. And it's just not happening.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: It is, you know, like, and, and the idea that like,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: it's so polarized that basically Biden and Trump's approval rating
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: both just hovered around 40.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's so, uh, yeah.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, dispiriting.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: But look, the fact that I do think the fact
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: that crime is falling aboard, like all these all these
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Republican tropes that they trotted out in the midterm that
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: have for the, for the last couple of years. Like,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's worth the Biden people like telling a
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: good story about this stuff, you know, that like the
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: crime is down that all that, you know, just because it, it, it,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: whether it changes minds or not, like it's certainly neutralizes
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: an argument that you've heard all over Fox.
• 48:56
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Like whether you see it in the approval rating of Biden,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: that is a step removed from whether the arguments themselves
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: are salient. And if the issues are not as powerful, uh,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: then those arguments won't work as well.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: And you want to start setting the mood music, right?
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: And you want to like, if you're the Biden campaign,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: the Democrats, you start telling a story that sort of
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: makes people feel a little bit better, or at least
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: tries to. All right, before we go to break, two
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• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the biggest bro among us.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I'm the biggest bro of the three of us, for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Check out the Bros for Rogue collection at cricket.com slash store. Also,
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• 50:09
  Speaker 1: And subscribe to Crooked's subscription community, Friends of the Pod,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: for ad-free episodes at crooked.com slash friends. When we come back,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Tommy talks to Congressman Dan Goldman.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Dan Goldman is a member of Congress. from New York
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: and was the lead counsel during Donald Trump's first impeachment.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Congressman.
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: Thanks so much for having me, Tommy.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Now, you're currently in a car, a little behind the
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: music here. Where are you driving to?
• 50:44
  Speaker 7: I am driving around the district right now. Nice.
• 50:49
  Speaker 10: New York City, had a meeting with some 9-11 victims
• 50:54
  Speaker 10: in Midtown and on my way to Sunset Park for
• 50:58
  Speaker 10: a community event.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Look at you, working every minute of the day, even
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: in the car. So all of us news junkies out here,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: we're kind of waiting to see if and when Special
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: Counsel Jack Smith will announce an indictment of President Trump
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: for trying to steal the 2020 election. Folks might remember that.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: The January 6th committee in Congress spent a year and
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: a half digging into this question and recommended specific criminal
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: charges to the Department of Justice. You worked on Trump's
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: first impeachment. You were also an assistant U.S. attorney for
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: many years. What kind of evidence do you think Jack
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Smith could have that the January 6th committee was unable
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: to surface?
• 51:35
  Speaker 7: That's a great question. And I think there will be
• 51:37
  Speaker 7: a lot of new evidence.
• 51:39
  Speaker 10: As you will recall, there were several witnesses who refused
• 51:44
  Speaker 10: to show up and testify before Congress. And they will
• 51:50
  Speaker 10: not be able to do that this time. And I
• 51:52
  Speaker 10: think There are a lot of rumblings about whether or
• 51:55
  Speaker 10: not someone like Mark Meadows, who did refuse to testify,
• 52:00
  Speaker 10: is now cooperating with the Department of Justice at a minimum.
• 52:03
  Speaker 10: We know that he has testified. And so people like
• 52:06
  Speaker 10: that who were very close to Donald Trump will not
• 52:10
  Speaker 10: be able to evade testifying as they were as part
• 52:15
  Speaker 10: of the January 6th committee. The other thing that we
• 52:18
  Speaker 10: know they've been able to get are records with attorneys.
• 52:25
  Speaker 10: The number of witnesses or the January 6th community, I
• 52:30
  Speaker 10: should say, ran into roadblocks as it relates to attorney-client
• 52:33
  Speaker 10: privilege and didn't have the time to litigate that. But
• 52:37
  Speaker 10: the Department of Justice has a stronger position on and
• 52:42
  Speaker 10: a better ability to get information when they pierce the
• 52:48
  Speaker 10: attorney-client privilege because of the crime fraud exception. So I
• 52:51
  Speaker 10: would expect to see a fair amount more evidence out
• 52:55
  Speaker 10: of Jack Smith's investigation than we saw in the January
• 52:58
  Speaker 10: 6th committee.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: That's amazing that we could learn even more, even though
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: we've learned a lot so far.
• 53:03
  Speaker 7: And not only that, we could learn more from people
• 53:06
  Speaker 7: closer to Donald Trump.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Right, right. People who understand his frame of mind, things
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: he was thinking and saying at the time in meetings, etc.
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: Exactly.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Talking about these cases is obviously complicated for President Biden,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: for the White House, for the campaign, because they don't
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: want to make it seem like this is Joe Biden
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: going after his political opponent. But members of Congress, other
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: people in Democratic Party are allowed to say whatever they want. Obviously,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: there's First Amendment still. What do you think is the
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: best way for Democrats to communicate about these cases with
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: the understanding that there is a presumption of innocence in
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: this country?
• 53:40
  Speaker 7: Yeah, look, I think Democrats....
• 53:44
  Speaker 10: Have been and will continue to be focused on buttressing
• 53:48
  Speaker 10: our democratic institutions and the rule of law. And we've
• 53:52
  Speaker 10: talked a lot over the last several years about Donald
• 53:56
  Speaker 10: Trump's attacks on our democracy. And this forthcoming indictment may
• 54:01
  Speaker 10: be the pièce de résistance of that because of an
• 54:05
  Speaker 10: effort to overthrow and overturn an election. But it is
• 54:11
  Speaker 10: important for the court system to play, let the case
• 54:15
  Speaker 10: play out. That is where the case should play out.
• 54:20
  Speaker 10: Donald Trump is presumed innocent. He has a number of
• 54:24
  Speaker 10: rights to confront witnesses, to a trial by jury, to
• 54:30
  Speaker 10: see the evidence against him and to be able to
• 54:32
  Speaker 10: respond to that evidence. And there is a tried and
• 54:36
  Speaker 10: true process that occurs in a courtroom that allows our
• 54:40
  Speaker 10: system of justice to play out.
• 54:42
  Speaker 7: And that is where it should play out.
• 54:44
  Speaker 10: It should not play out on a political campaign and
• 54:49
  Speaker 10: it should not play out in the halls of Congress.
• 54:52
  Speaker 10: And so that's really at least what I've been focusing
• 54:54
  Speaker 10: on is let's let the system play out. Let's focus
• 54:58
  Speaker 10: on what the allegations are and what the proof is.
• 55:01
  Speaker 10: But the court of law is where this belongs, not
• 55:04
  Speaker 10: the court of public opinion or Congress.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if only he would exercise his right to remain silent.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, but the challenge remains that we're looking at
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: trials that will likely start after most of the Republican
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: nominating contests have already happened, potentially after the Republican convention
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: officially dominates him, if Trump is able to delay the
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: classified documents trial. I mean, how do you work with
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: that as sort of the framework here where Yes, you're
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: right that the courts are the proper place to adjudicate this,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: but voters might not have all the information they need
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: to make a political decision before they have to vote.
• 55:40
  Speaker 10: Yeah, that's the quandary is that there are political implications
• 55:45
  Speaker 10: and ramifications to this. But just like Jack Smith as
• 55:49
  Speaker 10: the independent special counsel, takes an oath not to consider
• 55:55
  Speaker 10: the political consequences or the political leanings of any case
• 55:59
  Speaker 10: that he's involved in. He also is not worried about
• 56:03
  Speaker 10: the electoral process. And it is frustrating, I think, for
• 56:08
  Speaker 10: a lot of Americans who would like to see this
• 56:12
  Speaker 10: process play out quicker, that it just takes time. And
• 56:19
  Speaker 10: there's a reason why it takes time. But it is
• 56:23
  Speaker 10: frustrating and it may be very inconveniently timed for the
• 56:29
  Speaker 10: political process. And we're going to have to figure our
• 56:32
  Speaker 10: way around that.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: So speaking of sort of solely political actors, Kevin McCarthy,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: according to Politico, is apparently supporting an effort or has
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: promised Donald Trump to support an effort to expunge Trump's
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: impeachments as part of some deal he cut for not
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: coming out and endorsing Donald Trump in the Republican primary.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: McCarthy has since denied that there's some secret deal cooked
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: up about these expungements. Have you heard anything about this?
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Do you think this vote will actually happen, and would
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it go well for Donald Trump?
• 57:03
  Speaker 7: I have heard about this.
• 57:05
  Speaker 10: Marjorie Taylor Greene introduced one of them, and Elise Stefanik
• 57:08
  Speaker 10: from New York introduced another one. I appreciate the fact
• 57:14
  Speaker 10: that the Republicans recognize that the mark of impeachment is
• 57:18
  Speaker 10: is the political equivalent to a criminal record, which can
• 57:22
  Speaker 10: be expunged. Unfortunately for them, there's no such thing in Congress.
• 57:28
  Speaker 10: And they can do whatever they want, but it is
• 57:31
  Speaker 10: a pure messaging exercise. There is no such thing as
• 57:36
  Speaker 10: expunging an impeachment. And it would only just be a
• 57:42
  Speaker 10: political talking point. He still would be twice impeached, regardless
• 57:47
  Speaker 10: of whether or not it is expunged. But the broader
• 57:50
  Speaker 10: political point, which you just raised, which I think is
• 57:53
  Speaker 10: a good one, is it will put a lot of
• 57:55
  Speaker 10: Republicans in a very bad position if they bring this
• 57:58
  Speaker 10: to the floor. There are, as you well know, 18
• 58:02
  Speaker 10: Republicans in Biden districts, and that is not going to
• 58:07
  Speaker 10: be helpful for them to have to support. And obviously,
• 58:12
  Speaker 10: if they do not support it, they will bear the
• 58:14
  Speaker 10: wrath of Donald Trump. So I'm very interested to see
• 58:18
  Speaker 10: whether they bring it. I think it would be politically
• 58:22
  Speaker 10: stupid for them to do so. But that hasn't stopped
• 58:26
  Speaker 10: a lot of what they've done thus far.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think much of Kevin McCarthy as
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: a leader or a person, but I do respect the
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: fact that he negotiated a deal with Donald Trump where
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: he gives him something that doesn't exist. That is, you know,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: that's good. Good negotiating. It's pretty impressive. Changing gears here.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: So Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is unfortunately getting a lot
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: of media attention lately by taking money from Republicans and
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: then using it to pretend to run for the Democratic
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: nomination for president. Last week, he appeared before the select
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government, a committee
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: on which you were lucky enough to be a member. Congrats.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: So the fact that RFK Jr. believes and spreads all
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: these dangerous conspiracy theories has come up a lot. It's
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: well known. I think less discussed, much to my frustration,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: is the fact that he seems to be literally a
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: pathological liar. He lies about everything all the time. You
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: saw this firsthand. How do you prepare for a hearing
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: with someone like that? And why do you think Republicans
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: wanted him there in the first place?
• 59:26
  Speaker 10: Well, the irony, of course, is he was ostensibly there
• 59:30
  Speaker 10: because he wrote a tweet in early 2021, January 2021,
• 59:37
  Speaker 10: where he said that Hank Aaron died because of the
• 59:42
  Speaker 10: vaccine when he had died from a heart attack. And
• 59:45
  Speaker 10: there was, of course, no evidence at all that he
• 59:47
  Speaker 10: died from the vaccine. And it was potentially very dangerous
• 59:51
  Speaker 10: to tell many Americans that they can die from the vaccine.
• 59:55
  Speaker 10: So the White House, someone in the White House sent
• 59:58
  Speaker 10: an email to Twitter effectively saying, hey, can you take
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 10: a look at this and begin the process of taking
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 10: it down under your terms and policies?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 7: Twitter did not take the tweet down.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 10: So this was ostensibly a hearing on censorship, and he
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 10: was brought in to talk about that, except he wasn't censored.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 10: So the irony of that is says all you need
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 10: you need to know. So they essentially gave him a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 10: platform to spew his lies, to spew his conspiracy theories
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 10: with an with an idea of, of course, impugning Joe Biden,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 10: which is pretty much all they've tried to do with
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 10: these investigations. I think my view of it is that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 10: he doesn't have any credibility whatsoever. I thought it was
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 10: shameful that they gave him the platform of a congressional
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 10: hearing to spew his misinformation and to some extent his venom.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 10: You have a First Amendment right, but you do not
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 10: have a First Amendment right to testify before Congress, nor
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 10: is Congress required to give you that platform. And so
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 10: I led a letter with Judy Chu, the president of KPAC,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 10: the Asian Pacific Islander, caucus and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who's
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 10: also on the weaponization subcommittee, to Speaker McCarthy and Chairman
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 10: Jim Jordan to rescind the invitation. 102 people signed it
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 10: in the span of about a day or two. And
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 10: it just reflected, I think, the broad belief that this
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 10: person does not warrant the platform of a congressional hearing.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 10: And I think that we saw a little bit of
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 10: why that was last week.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure did. Speaking of things we all wish
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: we hadn't seen, Marjorie Taylor Greene made some news last
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: week by holding up sexually explicit images of Hunter Biden
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: at this oversight committee hearing. Hunter Biden has been very
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: open about his struggles with addiction, including on this show.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: He recently pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor tax charges. It
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: still is not at all clear to me, however, What
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the connection Republicans are trying to draw between Hunter Biden,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: his business dealings and Joe Biden, besides the fact that
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: they're related and this vague suggestion that Joe Biden somehow
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: profited from whatever work Hunter Biden was doing. Can you
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: help us understand, not steeped in these hearings, what evidence
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: has or has not been presented of such a connection,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: whether money exchanged hands, how you could hide that money
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: from us, the public, when Joe Biden releases his tax
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: returns every year? What am I missing here?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 10: You're not missing anything. And it's a very short answer
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 10: because there is none. There is nothing that connects Joe
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 10: Biden to any of Hunter Biden's business dealings. And what
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 10: ends up happening is that the oversight committee chairman, James Comer,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 10: and others start talking about the Bidens, plural. And they
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 10: start lumping Joe Biden in to their investigation, even though
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 10: he's not on a single bank record.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 7: There's not a single wire transfer.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 10: There's not a single document that says that he was
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 10: involved or benefited from any of it. And as I
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 10: pointed out at our hearing last week, there's actually evidence
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 10: to show that he was not involved and then clearly
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 10: unfamiliar with the Chinese company CEFC, which Hunter Biden allegedly
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 10: got money from. And he had no idea who they were,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 10: what they were doing, and was clearly not involved at
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 10: all in Hunter's business dealings. And yet, They continue to
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 10: impugn the president falsely by alluding to evidence that does
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 10: not exist.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, is there just nothing we can do
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: about it? I mean, basically, the oversight committee is going
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: to hold these hearings. They're going to make specious allegations.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: And the best we can do is hope that members
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: of Congress like yourself correct the facts in real time
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: and that it gets covered.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 10: Yeah, look, this is the political process that we're dealing
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 10: with right now. I mean, when you see Marjorie Taylor Greene,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 10: the clown herself, by completely gratuitously and unnecessarily showing revenge
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 10: porn during a congressional hearing, you learn everything you need
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 10: to know about this Republican Party. I don't care what
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 10: she was talking about. There is never a reason why
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 10: you need to do that. And it was designed... only
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 10: to humiliate and embarrass Hunter Biden, who, as we all know,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 10: is a private citizen. He has never worked for the government.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 10: He does not work for the government in direct contradiction
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 10: to the former president's children.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 7: And the notion that.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 10: That would be fair game for an official proceeding in
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 10: Congress is despicable. But that's what we're dealing with. And ultimately,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 10: you know, you well know there is a political process.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 10: I would say, that the ultimate accountability is at the
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 10: ballot box. And that if people do object to the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 10: Republicans going forward with this kind of misinformation, personal attacks,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 10: and completely unnecessary and wasteful time and energy spent on
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 10: investigations that have no connection to any official proceeding or
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 10: any official purpose, then we should vote out Republicans. And
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 10: if we can't vote out Chairman Comer because he's in
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 10: a very safe red district or Marjorie Taylor Greene, we
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 10: can vote out the rest of them and take over
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 10: the majority. And then we won't have to deal with
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 10: this absolute buffoonery that we're seeing.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: Final question. Speaking of buffoonery, what do you think about
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: the suggestion that Democrats should bring posters of hardcore pornography
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: to every hearing to kind of steal her thunder and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: make it less newsworthy. Is that something you're on board with?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 7: I know you're joking.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: I made that up. Matt Gaetz would probably do it,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 10: Yeah, look, one of the things we are really trying
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 10: to do is, and I'm focused very much on this
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 10: since I'm on a couple of the investigative committees, is
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 10: we're trying to bring a sober analysis of facts and truth.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 10: And that we're really emphasizing that we want to be
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 10: the people that and the party that Americans can rely
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 10: on to understand what is really going on. And I'm
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 10: not going to sit here and defend Hunter Biden's tax issues.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 10: And he, to his credit, has accepted responsibility for them.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 10: And if there is a crime that anyone has committed,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 10: I believe they should be charged, Democrat or Republican. But
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 10: when there isn't evidence to support allegations, and yet they
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 10: continue to go on and talk about these allegations that
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 10: have no basis in fact, that is unacceptable. And we
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 10: will consistently point that out. And we will point out
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 10: that they are wasting their time with these investigations that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 10: are going nowhere, rather than focusing on on legislation that
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 10: can help the American people. And that is the critical difference,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 10: I think, between Democrats and Republicans.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I suspect that even most Republicans who saw that
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: hearing were confused and ashamed of the people they elected
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: to go to Washington to represent them. But Congressman, thank
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: you so much for doing the show. Good luck at
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: your community meeting next. And thanks for talking to us.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 7: Thanks so much, Tommy.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: Great to be with you. Thanks to Dan Goldman for
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: joining us today. We'll talk to you guys soon. Hopefully
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: whenever we get an indictment. Pod Save America is a
• 1:08:03
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• 1:08:07
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• 1:08:12
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• 1:08:15
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