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Third Time's The Charm? · Pursuit of Sassiness

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, It's I Do Part two and I am
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: one of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler, and today I
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: am so weak and excited because normally I'm talking with
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I'm talking. We usually talk to like celebrities on the show.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: This celebrity is actually none other than my sister, Robin Gutterman.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: And she's not really a celebrity, but she's a celebrity
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to us.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Hi, Robbie, Hi, Jenny. So happy to be here.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I am thrilled to have you. And like most people,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: you guys, though, she has gone into Robin's rather unique story.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So firstly, a little bit about I guess just us.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So you guys may think that Robin is the older one,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: just based on looks, but I'm actually fourteen months older
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: than my sister. Yes, and she's always been perfect, beautiful,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: little blonde. Not sure one of you, It is so true.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And uh, but Robin and I are as we've gotten older.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I mean we had our fights right over the years,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you did. There's a time actually with your second husband,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: who we can remain nameless, but where we didn't speak
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: for like over a year, right.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we did and get along during that relationship
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I think you aren't happy with that relationship at all,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: and it was a tough one for you to watch.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it was.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't really matter when it comes to sisters.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: You know, we're Robin and I are very very close.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: So we're going to get into all things Robin's love life.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: So Robbie, let's just like, you know, this show is
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: about love the second time around. And in our family,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of times there's a second time around, there's
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the third time around, there's the fourth time around. Our
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: parents have been married and divorced. I don't know you
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: want to count. I mean I think seven six or
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: seven come between them? Yes, yes for mom, Yes, well
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: now add me in and now yes yes.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: And you're the only one who's been on the first Yeah.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: But you know what, I host the show because I'm
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: also kind of on my part two in the sense
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that we were separated for a year and a half
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and things definitely changed after that. But for once, you'll
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: be happy to hear Robin, it's not about me, all right,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So let's just like, you know, talk a little bit
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: about let's go one marriage at a time. So Robin
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: has been married, Oh you tell everybody.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I've actually been married three times.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Married three times, divorced three times. So but we'll get
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: you know, let's start with your first marriage. Tell us
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit about how you met your first husband,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: what that was like, what you think happened there, how
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: that ended in.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: My first husband I met in college in Austin and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: we were best friends. Our personalities were very similar. We
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: just we were kind of the partiers and we had
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: a little group of partiers and we were just friends.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: But I started to like him, and I was actually
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: dating someone at the time, and I started to like him,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: and I moved to New York after college, and he
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: moved back to Miami, and we remained friends, and he
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: started coming for business to New York and we ended
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: up going out one night and that was it. We
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: were dating long distance for a year. I think it
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: was a little over a year, and then he basically said,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: either you need to move to Miami or you know,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: this is over, because he didn't want to continue with
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the long distance. All right, why not? I was living
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: in New York City at the time, waiting tables, had
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: just finished getting my graduate degree, and so I moved
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and you know it, he was my best friend, the
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: person that I laugh with. I don't know if I
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: ever felt a crazy in love spark. I felt a
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: you'd be the best father. You have a phenomenal family,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and we were best friends. And he was Jewish. I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: mean he kind of checked all the boxes, right, he
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: was good looking, tall.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: We all loved him.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I mean yeah, everyone loved him.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Everyone our family loved him.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he's just good people. Like, there's nothing
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that I can really say in a negative way about
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: who he is as a person.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that when you were
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: walking down the aisle, did you know it was wrong?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Like I think about how Mamma always says that when
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: she was walking down the aisle with Dad, she knew
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: it was wrong, and Grandma had no problem telling her
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: she was making a mistake.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I think I got emotional before I walked down the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: aisle because my friend was actually getting together with a
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: guy I used to date on the day of my wedding,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and I had like a little tinge left of feeling
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: for him. So I was walking down the aisle and
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: that was the thing I was thinking about, you know, like,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: f you you're sitting here dating someone I dated I don't.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know with our family what
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I thought I was supposed to feel or have. I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: just thought that he was going to be just a
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: great man to be with, you know, he was just
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: going to be He was smart, ambitious, you know, had
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: a business degree. I mean, he checked he checked the boxes,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and he was friends and that's just I just thought
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: that it was going to be him.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So you guys were married. How many years was it.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I think it was seven when you had Jake and Danielle.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: And what do you think happened?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Well, we ended up there was a period of time where,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: you know most men, he was the bread winner for
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a minute, and he had a business with his parents,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: and they shut down his business in Miami, and so
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I think he fell into quite a bit of a depression.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: It was the only thing that he had really known.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: They were in the toy business, and so I think
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: it was really really difficult for him after that. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: at the same time, I had decided I wanted to
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: get a second master's degree, so I was looking at
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: doing that, and then I got an opportunity in Boca.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: We were living in Weston at the time. I got
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: an opportunity in Boca to run a treatment center, and
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: so my salary went.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Up because she would just just tell the people. So
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Robin is a therapist, yes, and was specializing in the
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: time in drug and alcohol.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, an addiction addiction. So I had gotten an opportunity
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to run a treatment center, a big treatment center in Boca,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: and so my career was kind of going up up,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and he could not find the right job for him
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: at all, and he was very depressed. He was kind
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: of became a stay at home dad. He was the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: one taking the kids to school and picking them up,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: and he was basically in his underwear every day on
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: a laptop, trying to create business in the same field.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't working out, and my life was crazy.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I was driving an hour back and forth from Boca
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to Weston every single day, leaving early in the morning,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: getting home late. And I don't think that helped our
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: marriage at all. There was no nurturing going on in
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the marriage. It was really just about the kids and
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: work at that point in time. And then, if I'd
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: be brutally honest about it all, I ended up meeting
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: someone while I was working at the rehab and ended
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: up having an affair and he found out about it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: When you look back on that, do you word do
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: you think it without if you hadn't had an affair,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: do you think you guys would still be married?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: You know, it's funny people ask me that all the time.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, when I talked to the kids,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: they say, absolutely not. We wouldn't have. But there was nothing.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: He is an awesome person, you know, as a whole person.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: He's a good person. I don't always think he was
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: the best parent, but he is. He was a good husband,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: and he was a good friend. And I can't say
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: anything negative. I just think I was never really in
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: love with him, and I found someone that I became
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: head over heels with and unfortunately he found out about it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: We tried to make it, and he also, right, you
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: guys tried and he didn't want it to end. I
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: remember him saying to me back then. I think I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: said to him at one point his name is, well, okay,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: we're not going to say his name. Actually, like you
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: gotta you should you should go. This is not because
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I knew that you were. You had checked out the marriage, right, I.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Had definitely checked out. I would probably say, talking about addiction.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I came into this almost obsessive addicted state with the
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: person that I was seeing at the time, and it
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: was a lot. It was a lot things that happened.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: We tried to go to couples counseling, and you know,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of course, the contingency was I could never talk to
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: this guy again, see him again, whatever it was. And
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I knew why I was doing couples counseling. I was
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: not going to stop. I had no doubt in my mind.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I thought maybe I could go to counseling and the
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: counseling would put my head back in the right direction. Right,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: your family, your kids, all the things that people talk
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: to me about on a daily basis, right, their priorities,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: their work, their family, you know, their home, all of
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: those things. And people don't get divorced for that reason
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: most of the time. In my profession and now I
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: work as a marriage therapist, which is the most hilarious,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: but at this point that's what I hear about. People
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: don't want to get divorced because they don't want to
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: mess up the kids and their of what would happen
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: to them. I didn't have any of that fear of
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: what was going to happen to my kids. I knew
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I was a great mom, but I figured give it
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: a shot, maybe something in me would change with the counseling.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: But I know, all these years, all these years later,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: you've said to me, and it always sticks with me.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: You always say, like, how well, you don't really get
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: jealous of me, and I don't get jealous of you.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: There's one thing I'm jealous of you for Jeff Fessler.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Jeff Fessler, not Jeff Besler per se, my marriage. Correct,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: because you have said to me right like like that.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: You I guess at the time when we came from
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: so much divorce, even when when I was separated, I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't I just thought that's how the world worked. I
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: wasn't really that worried about my kids. Yeah, I was
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: worried about them, of course, It's natural to be. And
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: then when I saw how sad they were, Like they
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: would go with Jeff away for a weekend or he
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: would take them and they would come back distraught. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think, well, actually when we would leave, when
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: we would we would I would leave Dad. I was
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: we had that sad. But the thing is I didn't
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: foresee it to me. Divorce is just that's what people do,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: you know. Then all of a sudden, I was like,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: wait a second, yeah, and I was sick. The kid
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: thing was brutal.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Your kids were older, though, yeah, right, my kids were
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: three and four years old. I don't even think the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: only conversation, the only thing they remember, which Jake likes
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to tell me my twenty seven year old that the
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: only thing he remembers about us living together was the
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: day that we sat them down and told them we
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: were getting divorced. Now my son, my son doesn't remember
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: what he did yesterday, but but okay, yeah, that's what
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: he says.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I remember telling my kids that day. I remember all
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: of that. I remember Rachel saying to me, what about
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: all our traditions? What about what about going to Rachel?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I know, and I'm sick even saying it out loud.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I want to throw up. But I guess I would
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: just talking about it because weighing it now, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and knowing that you feel that way, and you didn't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: realize you were going to feel that way maybe at
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the time, just like I don't think I realized how
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: hard it was going to be watching my kids deal
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: with it but anyway, But would you do it differently?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't do it differently. But just as you
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: had started saying the moments that we're like at Thanksgiving, right,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: because no one in our family is divorced except for me.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And it's weird because I always thought to think of
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I always think everyone's divorced, but.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Of our kids, of our all of us, right, the kids, Yeah,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: all the I'm the only one divorced. So when you
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: guys are preparing things and fun things are coming up
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and making family memories, I'm making them. But they're the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: connection that you guys have right with your children together,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: That bond, I guess is what I always say to you.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I don't have that.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: I don't have that, and that's definitely sad for me.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: That makes me sad. I just want to cry.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Everything makes you want to cross. I mean, if I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: was to go back, no, I wouldn't change it, do
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I feel. Listen, the kids know about the affair. I
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: was never dishonest with my children when they were old
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: enough to know. Marriages though, don't die from an affair.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: They die from the things that led up to the
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: affair that you didn't deal with and of course, the
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: betrayal from the affair hits differently than other things that
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: are problematic in a marriage.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: But it's so funny. While you're saying this, I'm thinking,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I wanted you to come on to tell your story
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and we could just spend a whole session because you're
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: you're a marriage counselor like that whole part of it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know what I was telling Heather,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: my producer. I got to have my sister on. She's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: been through it, not at all thinking but it's different.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: This is personal, this is your stuff. That's you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: a different discussion.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: It's personal, but it's also you know, interesting that I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: ended up doing this right because this is where I
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: feel probably the most connected with my client and my
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: ability to jump in and understand where they're at.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you, like, after the divorce,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: what was dating like? And of course now I'm thinking,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: there wasn't dating. You were in a relationship, and that's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: what you tell our listeners a little bit about that.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: That's the one that I would probably say in a
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: lot of ways, I end up regretting emotionally.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: For sure, you got married again.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: We did, and I guess for some reason that made
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: my ex husband, my first husband, actually feel better. He
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: said that to me once, that I didn't just have
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: an affair and that was it. I ended up getting
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: married to the guy that I divorced him like it.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Was more like it was more important. You didn't just
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: give up on the marriage for ruffling. Right.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: He was a very different person than I had probably
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: ever met before I met him.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: He was exactly like your father. I don't know what
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you're talking about.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I met him when I was working at the rehab. Yes,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: they both have narcissistic traits, but at the time, right
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: one who gets suckered by someone who has narcissism. He
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: was the most charming person in the room. He would
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: walk in and command attention. He had gone through it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: He was an addict in recovery, and right into recovery,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: he had opened up a halfway house. He came from
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: his Egyptian so he had come from a very well
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: to do family in Boston, so he was highly educated.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: He had a nursing degree, but was a drug addict.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: So he was in recovery ended up very quickly like
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: moving up the ranks in Boca. He had come down
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: for treatment from Boston and ended up staying anyway. So
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: when we first met, it was almost an immediate attraction.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think you're addicted to him? Speaking of think
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: you said that before? Oh yeah, we lost you, you
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: were gone.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, there was maybe that piece that he
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: definitely had traits of her father. He was brilliant, for sure.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: He was the most driven person I've ever met. He
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: basically took himself out of the slums to being I
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: don't know, worth about eighty million dollars now. He built
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: an entire rehab but along the way. I met him
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: when he was first starting out, but I knew that
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: he was going to be successful. He made me laugh.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: He flagged his wealth because I know he came from
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: a wealthy family.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: He didn't come No, he didn't come from a wealthy family. Initially,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: they were actually very very poor. They came over from
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Egypt when they were eighteen years old to go to school.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: So Dad went to Harvard, Mom went somewhere else. They
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: were very poor, and Dad made his money in his profession.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Got it, but.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Yes he did. They made a lot of money over time.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: He was in real estate in Boston and was a
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: nurse as well. And yes, one of the traits of
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: his was when he started making money, the whole world
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: had to know he was making money. I mean, it
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: was so narcissistic. I have more than you. I remember
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: when he told Randy, my best friend Randy, the first
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: time he met her, he said, how much do you make?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: This is how much I make. I bet I make
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: more than you. She still brings it up. Yeah, So listen.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: He was driven and dedicated and charming, and I was enamored.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I really had never met anybody like him before in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: that capacity, and I was taken in.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Do you think that you were because I'm comparing it
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to your first marriage, right, that was I don't think
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you ever scared of your first husband, But I alway
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: felt like you were a little scared of your second.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: You always say that, which is so interesting.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Is it not true.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I was never physically scared of him. I don't think
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I was emotionally of losing him. Yes, that's what I
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: was scared of.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I always felt like I loved him more than he
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: loved me. He's Muslim, and the way that he's sees
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the world was that we were never going to be partners.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: As long as he made more money than I did,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: we were never going to be partners. So what happened
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: in the end, I mean this relationship was it became
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: very emotionally abusive. It was I worked for him and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: he had a.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Rehab literally right, literally.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I worked for him. He had a humongous rehab in Boca.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I was the clinical director. And when we started having
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: problems in our marriage, a lot of times it was
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: related to our communication, and the communication being if I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: didn't agree with you, that I was being dramatic and
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: there was something wrong with me. Very narcissistic, right, that's
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the twist. Narcissists make you feel like you're crazy. Right,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: They're always right. They're always waiting to fill their ego.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: If you do something that doesn't fill their ego, then
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: you're the problem. So you know, it was I was
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: so obsessed with him and keeping him, but he had
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: all the power in the relationship. I worked for him,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: he paid my salary. The home we lived in initially
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: was his home. I moved my kids into his home,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: so there was nothing in my life. As he was
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: on the up and up in his career, he was
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: great and generous with money, phenomenally so, because that was
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: also the thing that helped to fuel his ego. He
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: helped my kids financially, he paid for camp, he paid
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: for bar mitzvahs, he did all of those things. But
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: he was completely and utterly emotionally abusive.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Right I think about how that affected all Although it
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: certainly affected our relationship, it was just hard for me
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to watch it. I guess.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, Listen, I always stood up for myself. Let's not
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: keep myself. I am not some you know, shrinking violet. No,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I am not a shrinking violet. There was never a
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: time that I did not open up my mouth and
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: give my side. But it didn't matter what my side was,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: because I was always.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Wrong in the end. What do you think was the clincher?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Honestly, he'll never admit it, but he was cheating on
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: me at that point. I think he was cheating on me.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: He had a gambling problem at the time as well,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and I think that he was going out. Who knows
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: if he had cheated on me before he had relapsed
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: at one point, But that really wasn't a big part
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: of the issue. To be honest with you, I have
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: great boundaries when it comes to relapse, and he didn't really,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: at least while we were married. I was told that
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: he did at times drink, but he never did it
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: around me, and I couldn't prove anything. But at the
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: end of the day, it was what I believe was
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: an affair, what I believe was impulsive behavior in a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: lot of different ways. If you were to ask him,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: he would say that the wedding was us getting married
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: was wrong from day one. That's what he likes to
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: tell people.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: When you look back on it, would you do it again?
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: No? I think it was a toxic relationship, and I
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: was definitely part of the toxicity. You know, in terms
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: of you have to be a really great codependent to
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: be with a narcissist.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Robin, I am that I have to write that down.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you said it to me before. I have
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: put quotes around it and make it into a poster.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of that piece of you end up
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: when people you say that you're codependent, it's really that
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: you kind of begin to do things at the expense
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: of your own values. You cross your own lines of
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: things you never said, you do things you never said
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: that you'd put up with right, things that you felt
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that you never thought that you would stay involved in
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: something that you felt hopeless in, and your whole life
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: becomes about making the other person happy, trying to identify
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: with the other person, Right, you lose your own identity
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: for the sake of fitting into somebody else's and I
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: think that's what happened. And by that time you get
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: so worn down emotionally that you almost begin to believe
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that you or the problem.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, just in terms of family and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: how all this affects family. So we didn't talk for
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of that marriage. You were orn't married for
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: that long? How how long were you actual?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Years?
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Four years? So we probably didn't speak half. I don't remember.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: We didn't speak when you got married, we didn't well.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: We were together for eleven years, interestingly.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Enough, Yeah, during that marriage, that was when we were like,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I almost didn't go to the wedding, and then we
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: stopped speaking, but that we reconciled. I think the day
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the day like you were, you knew that you guys
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: were in trouble, and you reached out to me and
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you're like, I need my sister. Yeah, But I mean
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I think we didn't speak because I just didn't like
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the way you were when you were around him. I
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: didn't like. I didn't I wasn't a fan, you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: he he and I just we butted heads. But I
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: mean for you and I not to speak, and I
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: was also going through my As a matter of fact,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is that when I was separated.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: That's when you came to Florida for the summer.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: That right, That's when I went to Florida and for
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that summer Jeff and I had separated, And I meant,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I think you were a big Jeff Essler fan. You
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: probably could see that I was, you know, fucking things
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: up in my life, my own life. We just but
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Think you could see that at the time either. I
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: don't think just kind of like when people were telling
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: me what I was doing, and I was so invested
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: in what I was doing, I couldn't see it. I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: don't think at that time you were able to see
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the concern about, you know, some of what was going
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: on on your end of it. I think it was
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: just I don't know, you tell me, I don't know
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: what it was for you.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, my sh is so complicated. I think that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of it had to do with our childhood
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that I thought I was always so insecure growing up
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and so miserable and needed this tension from men. I
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: think I had such daddy issues. I mean, Jeff had
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: an affair obviously that set things in motion, but we'd
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: stop connecting. Really, I mean, we were the cliche seven
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: year itch and the kids, the kids, the kids, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: we weren't focused at all on each other. And I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: didn't feel the spark. And I defined spark today very
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: differently than I did when I was in my thirties.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It was also that attention piece for you too, I
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: think at that point, yeah, especially after how you felt
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: with the betrayal, Yes, of what happened. I think you
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: were looking to be filled right by something outside of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: you that was just going to make you feel better.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I'm going to try to not make this
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: all about me, which you know is difficult. That you
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: have my narcissistic tendencies.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyway.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So all right, so that marriage ends, and that was
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: you had a road to recovery. Certainly that was not easy.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: That was brutal.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Were you thinking, like, first of all, did you think
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you'd ever get married again after that? No?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Because I didn't know how I was going to live
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: another day without a minute, to be honest with you, Yeah,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and if it wasn't for you guys and another friend
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: who literally basically took care of my kids with me
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: but was at my house every night for a year,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: and you know, my best friend in Dallas. But I
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: think that for me, it was just how am I
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: going to breathe in and out? And that's the destruction
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: of being in such a narcissistic relationship is I didn't
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: even know who, what where I was coming from after
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that marriage, how I was going to live without this
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: guy who was emotionally abusive, because that's what I had
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: learned was okay, And I literally did, like I didn't
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: know how I was going to survive it. It was
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: the worst year or two of my life for sure. Yeah,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: it was hard one.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And then he started dating again. You had several boyfriends, actually, right, that.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Is when I did a Jen Fessler. So I decided
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I was going to date every human on the planet
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: and just have fun and not care. That's what I
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: was going to do, Like whatever, I don't want any
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: big series this. Oh I had a blast. I had
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: a blast. I probably dated more guys in two years
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: than I dated my.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Entire life, right, yeah, right right? And so so I mean,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: would you recommend that to people because personally, I don't
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: mean professionally, but after divorce, like you jumped into the
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: first marriage the second marriage when you ended up getting
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: married again, but you would say.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, for first, take care of you, make sure you're healed,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: right that you know, put someone under you to get
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: over the other thing. What is that expression?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you do, that's dad, our father. Is it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the only way to get over someone is to get
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: under under? Yes, I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Curtly think that, but I think that rebuilding yourself is
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a process. So I think going out and having fun
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: where you're trying to heal is more important, you know
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: than just acting stupid. But definitely go and have fun
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: And okay, So tell us about your third husband.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, his name's John God. We met a couple of years.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I was dating people for a couple of years before
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I met John. We met on match dot Com. I
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: had been on some of those, you know, all of
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: those stupid whatever sites and he was the only one
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: that I actually reached out to first, which I find
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: so interesting because everyone. Yeah, he was the only person
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: that and the guy I dated before him, but and
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: we met. We met at a bar restaurant in Boca Ratone,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and just he was just such a breath of fresh
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: air from the second I met him, like just manners
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: and I don't even know how to explain it. He
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: was cute, he was well put together, and we hit
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: it off from the get go. There was something about
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: him Jewish and I had been with someone who wasn't,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: so it almost felt like coming home a little bit,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: being with someone I could just connect to in that capacity. Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: and it was personality wise from the get go. We
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: had so many things in common. The things we liked
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: to do were both big wine drinkers, very into red.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Wine back then, into travel.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: The hobbies, yeah, movies, TV, working out, just there was
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: it was. There was an easiness that I had not
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: been with probably since my first husband. Right, I wasn't
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: There wasn't any anxiety or you're saying the wrong thing,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: or he just genuinely liked me for who I was.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And the fact that he just thought I was pretty
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: was also helpful. I'm a little cutter, I'm a little
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: cutter than him.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: So okay, So what happened.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: We started immediately dating, and we just kept seeing each other,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: seeing each other. And this was at the point in
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: time I think when I told you I wanted to
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: move to New Jersey. It was right before.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I am right.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: So, after our third date, I told him that I
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: was still looking to move to New Jersey and he
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: ended it because of that. He's like, I don't want
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: to do a long distance I'm here, you're there. So
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: we didn't talk for a couple of months, and then
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: on his birthday, which is the twenty ninth of December,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I decided I had been thinking about him. I decided
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: to reach out and wish him happy birthday. We started
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: texting back and forth and I told him I was
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: going to be with you at the Boca Resort for
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: the New Year's party.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And he said he was going there as well. He said,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: maybe you can come by and say hello. I had
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: another date. I never remember that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had. We had. Yes, we had to like
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: like sneak away and I came with you to go
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: see John. It was like a whole thing. I felt terrible,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: pulled me into your web of deceit.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I know, I left my other, my boyfriend of two
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: years at the time to go.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Well, he wasn't your boyfriend because you were seeing No.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: John and I had broken up, and so I got
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: back together with my ex boyfriends. I didn't put that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in for like a brief minute in time.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway, all right, so long story short, because I can't.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: You ended up married and then you ended up divorced. Correct,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: tell us what happened.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, we dated for a year and then we were
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: in love with each other and decided to get married.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Same dreams, same value, same everything. And three weeks after
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: we got married, I think we were on our honeymoon. No,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: not on our honeymoon. A little while after that, maybe
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: a cup Sorry I lied. Three months later we were
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: away on vacation. We were with you in Boston, No,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: in Cape Cod and John got a call on the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: way home that his father was in the hospital. Is
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: after three months of marriage. Long story short, It was
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the worst thing. His father died soon after. And I
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: think John and his father were best friends and had
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: a business together, and you know, he was his hero.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: He was John's hero, and John fell apart from that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: at the time they had just switched businesses as well,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: one company to another. They were at a brand new
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: transition to another company. They're both financial advisors, so new
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: transition to a company that wasn't working out very well.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: His father's death, we definitely had differences in our parenting style.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: He had a young child at the time and my
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: kids were in high school, and I initially didn't want
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: to be with someone who had a young kid. I
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: didn't want to be a parent again. Been there, done that,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: No desire to parent your kid. And his daughter at
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: the time had been through a lot. She was young,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: she was four or five years old when I met her. Yeah,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and we couldn't see eyed I on the parenting at You.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Would have stayed You would have stayed married even with
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: all of that. You always say that you would not
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: have gotten divorced. No, you did not want another divorce.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I would not have gotten divorced. I don't think he
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: was in an emotional space to deal with the things
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: that I was bringing to the marriage of things that
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: weren't working, things that I wasn't okay with, things about
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: parenting that I didn't like, the custody stuff he had
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: going back and forth. It was a lot and listening. Obviously,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: he has his side of who I was. I can't
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: really think about anything I did wrong, but other than
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: being a bitch because I am. But I really can't
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: like I can fault myself for a lot of things
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I did wrong in my marriages. I think that the
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: aftermath of my second marriage, I can say emotionally for
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: me at times, and I was still going through it
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: with him and turns of finances. Even when John and
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I married, I was still going through it with my
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: ex and he think that there were so many issues there.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: I think he knows that this guy still had a
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: piece of my heart as toxic as I knew it
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: was at this point. I think the issues that arose
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: from that relationship were difficult. Financially, he had a lot.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: My second husband was very, very wealthy, and John has
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: a good living. But the only thing is that I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: could count on in that second marriage was the money.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And it was probably more money than I had ever
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: had in my own right or been with someone who
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: had that kind of money.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Definitely right, and it kind.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Of took away the emotional pain at the time that
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I had money, and so John was just a guy
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: who made a good living, right, I mean, he's successful
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: in his own right, and argued about money, always argued
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: about money, because now I felt like I needed to
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: be taken care of financially because I was taken care
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: of financially. I didn't have anything else in the second marriag,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: but I was taken care of financially, So now I
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to be taken care of and John wasn't really
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: in that position. We had both been married before to
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: take care of me.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Right, right, So okay, so you ended up getting divorced,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: so okay, but there is a line here after a year,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: right after year of marriage, so then what happened tell
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: us about where we are today.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: So after that marriage, I was like, that's it. I'm done,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not getting getting married. I moved out, got an apartment,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: and for a year we didn't really speak at all,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: only when it was in reference to things we needed
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to speak about, right, So the belongings, the divorce selling,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: the house selling. That's right, all of that stuff, But
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: there was always an underlying kind of I miss you,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: but he wanted the divorce. I did not, And even
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: though there were issues in it, I'm like, I am
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: not doing this again. This guy. I married him. I
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: wanted it to work, so I felt very betrayed. He
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: was the one who asked for the divorce. He was
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: the one who couldn't do it anymore, and he knew
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: that it wouldn't have been me who wanted to do this,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: and he was in a bad space. So we talked,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: didn't really talk, but talked, you know, for for reasons
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: we needed to. But every now and then there'd be
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and I miss you. I miss you too, but I'm
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: too hurt, and I don't You had your chance and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: you lost me, and that's it, right, black and white thinker.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: So it went on like this for a while, and
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: then one day he called me up and said, I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: really need to make amends for our marriage. Are you
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: willing to meet me? So I did. I met him
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: at a cute little place we used to go to together,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and he was crying and he said, I did this
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: all wrong. I gave up on you, I gave up
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: on us. I wasn't emotionally capable of being present in
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: this marriage. I wasn't able to take on, you know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: any accountability for why it went wrong. And he, you know,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: he basically just fell apart. He said it was my fault.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I should not have given up on this, and I didn't.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: With all the other trauma and all the other things
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: going on in his life and us disagreeing on certain things,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: we couldn't handle it. So he apologized. We started talking
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: after that, and it was a lot of talking, you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: hours and hours and hours of talking, and I still
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: was like, that's it. I'm not you know, I can't
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: go backwards. I've done this enough. And he wouldn't stop calling,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: and eventually he asked me if I would meet him again,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: and I did, and slowly, over time we got back together.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't sleep with him for months. I remember that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that was like the punishment, right use sex is the
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: as the thing, and not really because not because I
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: wanted you to eight because I was so angry about
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: what had happened. Even though I was kind of bringing
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: him back in my life, I wasn't going to let
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: myself lose that part of this kind of control that
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: it was going to go the way I wanted, how
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I wanted at my pace. So yeah, so we've been
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: back to back together ten years.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Plus ten years plus Robin. The big question, the burning question,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: why didn't you get married again.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I hope he's not listening to this podcast right now.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Why, I don't think you're saying anything.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: No, I can't ever say that I wouldn't get married
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: again at this point in my life. He lives in
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Boca and I live in New Jersey.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I think has worked out beautifully.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of not being on top of
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: each other in a marriage. I mean, that's that's really
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: not on top of each other.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I mean he comes every two weeks, right,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: so I see him a lot.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Right, of course, I'll see him a lot.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: He would love to be together more. He's heard me
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: say it. I'm okay with it, Like I find that
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: it has really made our relationship blossom. He's the greatest
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: man to me. No man's ever treated me better than
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: this man treats me. You always tell me that. My
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: whole family.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Tells me that he is so good to you.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: He's almost too good at times. So I want to say,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: you know, get some balls somewhere, be me to me
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: every now and then. He just can't do it. It's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: not in his DNA. So he wants to get remarried.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I just don't know if I necessarily see a point,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: we've already separated everything. The first time we went through lawyers.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: The first time it didn't work out.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that a lot of that
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: is just about the fact that you're now after three marriages,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: just like how great can marriage be? Really? I mean
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it like it didn't work out. It
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: didn't work out, It didn't work out. Now things are
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: working out, right, worked out, They actually did work out.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, you guys would be together forever regardless.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did work out. And I think that we
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: already consider ourselves married. You know, we both wear our
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: rings at this point. We're completely committed. We're not with
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: anyone or have any desire to be with anyone else.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: We our relationship, he would say it too, is the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: best it's ever been. We laugh all the time. I
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: always tell you everything. We have so many things in common.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Finish each other's sentences or take that back. He thinks
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: he can finish mine all the time, which actually annoys me.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: But right, I talk and then he finishes my son,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: and so I'm like, Hi, I'm sitting here. You don't
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: need to finish my son, as I got it. But
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I don't need to. I don't. I don't. We're together.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I don't see a reason for it at all. I'm
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: on his insurance without being married. That's okay, right, So
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it just it works for us. I know he really
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: wants that. I think it's very important to him, but
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: at this point in my life, I'm not ready.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do it. Yeah, no, I mean listen, for me,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: as your sister, who loves you more than anyone, I
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: just see you so happy now. It's like but then again,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and I think also maybe part of that is that
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: you don't need the financial security like you used to.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that for a lot of women,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: you know, they're home raising kids and they don't they're
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: not not necessarily working and although the hardest job in
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the world, but you know, their career hasn't blossomed like
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: their husbands has, and that can be scary, right, But yours,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: you have a full, serious career. So I don't know
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: if that's you know how much that would have to
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: do with it.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, it wasn't. He wasn't taking care of
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: me financially when we were married, so John, I mean,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: we were fifty to fifty all the way through. So
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: there wasn't he wasn't taking care of me, and that
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: was part of the problem in the marriage at the time.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Is that I just you know, again, call me traditional.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I just always felt like he should pay for a
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: little more. He's the man, and he didn't. And that
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: might be an unwoke way to say things, but that's
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: the truth. I just don't. It didn't happen. And you
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: are right though, there is a freedom in not having
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: to rely on anybody right for your life and to
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: have someone in it because you want them in it,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: not because you need them in it.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I mean any like, I don't know.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I mean you obviously you give advice for a living.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I mean that's what you do. And I know you
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: believe in marriage. I mean, I know how much you
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: love my marriage, how much you love my relationship with Jeff,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the best close to Jeff. But I mean that's maybe
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: we need another to do another pot on it. But
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: like you know, for your kids in terms of like
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: cause I always say to my kids now, like it's
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: it's probably the most important decision that you'll ever make,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: right who you pick is a life partner.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: It's so funny because I don't say that to my
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: kids at all. You don't know both my kids believe
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: in divorce. I don't, and not because they don't want
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: to be in a loving relationship. They do. Obviously. Everyone
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: goes into a marriage hoping that it's their life partner.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: But you know what, sometimes your life partner is not
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: your first partner. Sorry, And we grow and we change,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: and we have to do our best right while we're
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: in a marriage, to try to nurture it, to give
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: it the presence, the time that it deserves, right, to
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: deal with the things that keep it together, and make
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: it the number one priority in our lives. Our children
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: should not be a number one priority. There as important,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: but they should not be the number one priority in
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: a marriage. That marriage, the marriage should be. And I
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: don't think I don't think we do that enough. So
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I think if we put in all that we can
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: put in, and things happen and things change, and you
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: fight like hell to try to stay in it, but
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: if you are unhappy you do not stay. That is
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: not your most important decision to stay in something. You
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: stay in it for the things that Rachel.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I always mean it like, well, I just think I
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: see so much. Obviously, what is it more than half
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of marriages and a divorce. But it's just I don't know.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I think if you to really like the person and
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: love but also a really it's a choice that I
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: think is can just affect you can affect your happiness.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's for another pod, because it.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Is it is. But they I think they they're good
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: with where with where I'm at, and I think that.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they love John. I mean I think
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: they'd be happy if you got married, but I think
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: they're okay if you don't.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, they care more about their own lives and
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: giving a shit if I get married for a fourth time.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: To be honest with you, so that's true to you
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, he's ten years and they love
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: him and they treat him like he treats them like
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: like they're hist So I mean he's he's the best
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and they love him, and I'm happy and it works
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: third time around four, fourth time something, I don't know.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: It's a lot, it's a lot.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you, I love you so much, thanks for having
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: to talk to you later. Wow, right, she's the best.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: I'm very, very very lucky and blessed to have her
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: as a sister, and she's actually helped me so much
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: in terms of my marriage and our issues and she's
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: been through it, but it worked out and that's the point, right, Well,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: that's what we hope for anyway. So one more time, Robbie,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: if you're listening, thank you for coming on. Thank you
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: for sharing your journey. You guys, are you thinking about
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: reconciling with an X? Have you been through a couple
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of divorces? Do you need help finding love again? Follow
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: us or email us all the infos in the show notes.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: the podcast I Do Part two and iHeart Radio podcasts
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: where falling in love is the main objective.