Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 867: Wes Craven's Secret to Writing Great Movies with Glenn Benest

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IFH 867: Wes Craven's Secret to Writing Great Movies with Glenn Benest · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
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  Speaker 2: sixty seven. You try to do it, and you do
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  Speaker 2: it Honestly, you can't control people's responses. Really, Edgar Wright.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Back Alley and Hollywood. It's the Indie
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  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
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  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast.
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  Speaker 2: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
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• 1:51
  Speaker 2: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: My next guest has written two films for Wes Craven
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: and has been the film business for over thirty years.
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  Speaker 3: So here we go with Glenn Beinest. Joining me today
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: is Glenn M. Bennis. Glenn is an award winning writer producer.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: He received his bachelor's degree at Harvard University and his
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Master's of Fine Arts at UCLA and playwriting. He has
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: seven produced film credits, including two films he wrote for
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Wes Craven. In two thousand and four, he wrote and
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: produced his own independent film, Hungry Hearts, which was picked
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: up by Shoreline Entertainment for worldwide distribution. Glenn, how are you, sir?
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  Speaker 4: Very good?
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Excellent? So you know, just to get started, you know,
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  Speaker 3: so you went to Harvard University and you got your
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: bachelor's degree, and then you went to UCLA to get
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: your master's in playwriting. So you know, when you were
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: going to school at Harvard, did you know exactly what
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: he wanted to do, Like, did you know you wanted
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: to become a screenwriter?
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  Speaker 4: No?
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  Speaker 5: I actually wanted to be a playwright, and I was
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: very involved in theater.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: I love theater.
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  Speaker 5: I love the great playwright that I read, like Harold
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Pinter and people like that. But I knew very little
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: about the actual mechanics of theater. It was mostly just
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: what I had studied. So I decided that I would
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: get a Master of Fine Arts in playwriting and really
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: learn the learn about acting, learn about.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Directing, learn about the stage.
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: And so I went to UCLA and it was a
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: great experience because we put on plays and we acted.
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: We did certain things like that. But when I graduated,
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: I realized I really couldn't make a living as a
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: playwright because very few people do, Maybe a handful of
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: people make a living as as playwright. So I didn't
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  Speaker 5: want to do it as a hobby. And I was
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: in LA anyway, so I thought, well, playwriting isn't that
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  Speaker 5: different than screenwriting, So I'll get into screenwriting.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: That was my thought process, So you know, I wanted
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: to I always asked us to everybody, you know, because
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  Speaker 3: you went to school for specifically for playwriting, but you know,
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  Speaker 3: I always ask for those who actually went to college
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  Speaker 3: for film. Uh do you do you think it benefited
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  Speaker 3: you a lot? You know, looking back, do you think
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  Speaker 3: that it was very beneficial that you went to to
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  Speaker 3: Harvard and then to UCLA or do you think, you know,
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  Speaker 3: looking back, you would have taken a different path.
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  Speaker 5: Well, for me, just because my background had been academic,
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  Speaker 5: and you know, at Harvard is a very intellectual place,
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  Speaker 5: so I really wanted to know the industry. I wanted
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  Speaker 5: to really know the in and out to theater. So
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  Speaker 5: for me, having a going into a place that that
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  Speaker 5: was big on theater and actually being part of putting
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: on plays was extremely beneficial because it wasn't just some
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: abstract thing anymore. But my point of view about you know,
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: a lot of writers asked me, do you think I
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: should go into a film school, like after they graduate
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: undergraduate and go to a film school at USC or
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: UCLA or NYU or those places i'd for screenwriters. I
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: don't really think that you need to do that. Number one,
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  Speaker 5: it's extremely expensive to get a two year degree at
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  Speaker 5: MSA in screenwriting, let's say, at UCLA or USC or NYU,
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: those big schools. Because all you to really make it
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: as a screenwriter, what you.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: Need your calling card.
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  Speaker 5: Nobody cares if you went to film school, absolutely nobody.
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  Speaker 5: All they care about is can you produce? And if
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: you have a great screenplay, that's your calling card into
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  Speaker 5: the industry. People read it and they realize, wow, this
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: guy is a really good writer, this woman is a
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: really great writer. And even if they don't buy that screenplay,
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: they can tend to get you to.
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  Speaker 4: Write a price that they have so they'll hire.
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  Speaker 5: You to do other things. So what you need is
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  Speaker 5: not a diploma from USC. You need a great screenplay.
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  Speaker 5: And it's a lot cheaper to create a great screenplay
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  Speaker 5: in a screenwriting workshop or take.
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  Speaker 4: Some classes rather than.
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  Speaker 5: Spend thirty thousand dollars a year to go to USC
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  Speaker 5: if you were a if you wanted to be a
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  Speaker 5: cinematographer or even a director, I can see the benefit
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: of going to a film school because all the equipment
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: is there, and you have crews that you can put,
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: you can cobble together from your other students, and you
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  Speaker 5: can do shoots. So that's very beneficial. But for a screenwriter,
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  Speaker 5: I don't see the point.
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  Speaker 6: I really don't.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's a good point, Glenn, because there's
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  Speaker 3: such a plethora now of resources for people who do
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: want to do screenwriting. I know you can't see me
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  Speaker 3: right now because this is the podcast, But to my
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: left there is just books upon books on screenwriting. There's
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: a few DVDs that I have been I've collected over
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: the years, like you know, the one of Chris Vogler's DVDs,
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  Speaker 3: And like you said, there's online. There's even online screenwriting
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  Speaker 3: classes now, you know, where you can actually take a
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: class and actually work through your screenplay through a coach,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: you know, and you could be living anywhere in the
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: world and still be in touch with one another.
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I, you know.
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  Speaker 4: I mean what I would.
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  Speaker 5: Try to do is I would try to study under
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  Speaker 5: somebody who really has been in the business, has gotten
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: films produced, has has their own films produced, and really
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: knows what it takes to take a screenplay and to
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: get it to the point where it can be sold.
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: And that's that's a really unique talent. Not I wouldn't
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: study under anybody who hasn't done that, because they can
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: talk all they want, but until you get a film
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  Speaker 5: produce us, you have no idea really what it takes
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: and what a screen where you need to take a screenplay,
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  Speaker 5: And if not just writing one or two drafts, it's
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  Speaker 5: writing many drafts and keep pushing it to be better
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  Speaker 5: and better and better. When I was young, I was
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: lucky because I cooked up with West Craven. And west
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: Craven at that time was not famous. He had just
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: done a few little independent horror films, but he was
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  Speaker 5: definitely someone on the way up, and he knew film
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  Speaker 5: He knew how to get a film made, and he
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  Speaker 5: knew what it took to get a screenplay into good
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  Speaker 5: enough shape so that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: It could be produced.
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  Speaker 5: And working with him taught me so much, and everybody
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  Speaker 5: needs a mentor like that. If you want to be
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: a world class athlete, you're going to have a coach,
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: and that coach is going to be able to push
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  Speaker 5: you to the point where you could win.
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: A gold medal.
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: And it's the same with every other athlete. It's the
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: same with tennis players. Who are professional tennis players on
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: the tour, they all have coaches.
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  Speaker 4: There's not one that doesn't have a coach.
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: So if world class athletes need coaches, so do artists.
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  Speaker 4: Because we're really.
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  Speaker 5: Not that different from athletes. We're trying to get to
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  Speaker 5: a higher level of performance and we really can't do
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  Speaker 5: it on our own. We need somebody who has that
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  Speaker 5: outside point of view that can keep pushing us, knows
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  Speaker 5: what it takes, and gives us great feedback, just like
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: a great coach would be giving a tennis player great
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: feedback into how to improve their game.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
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  Speaker 5: And that's what writers need as well. So however you
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: find that person, you know, you don't want to just
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: take feedback from just anybody.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's got to be.
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: Not just some friend, your girlfriend, your wife or whatever
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  Speaker 5: that can help you absolutely does defintely no good. You
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: need somebody who's a professional, who knows what to look for,
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: who knows how to give you really great feedback so
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: that every time you do a path on a screenplay
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: it gets better and better and better. And the talent
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: to do that doesn't come around all the time. Even
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: people that work for studios and work for networks and
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: their job is to give notes. Even those people who
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: supposedly know what they're doing don't always give you the
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: best notes. So you really need to find that mentor,
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: and that is going to be a lot more valuable
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: than going to UFV for me anyway to become a screenwriter.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: So you know when you first met you know, Wes Craven.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Your first movie that you wrote and that he actually
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: directed was Stranger in Our House, which was in nineteen
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  Speaker 3: seventy seven, nineteen seventy eight. So Glenn, if you could,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: could you take us through you know, how you wrote
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the screenplay, meaning your process to actually write it, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: how you actually first met Wes and how you guys
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: developed that relationship.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Well, a Stranger House was based on a book, so
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: I already had it was a novel by Lois Duncan,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: who's a pretty well known writer writes mysteries and suspense.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: So I already had that groundwork of the story and
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: that's extremely helpful, as you can imagine for a screenwriter,
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: you already have the story worked out. So I adapted
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: it as a screenplay. But to tell you the truth,
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: I didn't make that many major changes. And we wanted
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: it was already sold to NBC. They had a deal
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: with Linda Blair to do movies with her. This is
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: after the Exorcist, and she was a kind of a
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: make sure they're on sixteen or seventeen at that point,
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: something like that, And so they wanted that movie for
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Linda Blair, and we were looking for a horror director,
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: and we known about Wes because he had done He
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: had done The Last House on the Last and he
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: had done The Hills Have Eyes. But like I said,
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: he wasn't at all famous. Very few people knew about
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: him except people in the independent world. And so they
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: sold West to NBC, which was a great thanksful West
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: because it was his first television movie. It was really
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: his first real mainstream.
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Thing, and he did a really good job with that.
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: They had got good numbers, and so when I and
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: I wrote the screenplay called Deadly Blessing with my writing
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: partner Matthew Barr, and so we wanted to set that
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: up as a feature, and of course we thought of
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Wes because we already had this relationship with him. So
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: we worked with Wes. He gave us notes and we
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: wrote the script a couple times according to his notes,
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: and then he even did a pass of his own
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: on it, and then we were fortunate enough. At the time,
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: it was funny because Deadly Blessing had been around for
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: about three years and we always got great feedback for it,
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: but nobody was willing to buy it. And then all
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: of a sudden, everybody wanted horror movies. I don't know
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: why that was. It was just like these cycles come
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: and go, and so literally in a one week we
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: had two or three offers after three years of not
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: being able to sell it, and we already had Wes
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: attached as a director, So that made it way more
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: attractive because if you have our because it's hard to
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: find the right director, if you've already got a great
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: director attached, then it's that much easier to sell a
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: project because they can go right into production, and that's
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: what happened with Deadly Blessing. So they just bought the
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: script they had Wes and they started to cast it.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: It was it was real easy.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: So now, just going back to what we were just
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: discussing about a mentor and writing you know, different drafts
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: of the screenplay. You know, what were some of the
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: things that you learned by working with Wes on this
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: film that you were able to sort of carry on
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: to the next project, the next project throughout your whole career.
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, Wes is the master of horror.
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: So even though I was always attracted to horror, I
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: didn't understand horror the way that Wes did. And what
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: he brought to the screenplay was those horror set pieces
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: where you know, a series of scenes that build to
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: a horrifying conclusion. Those are set pieces, and they're set
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: pieces in horror, just like their set pieces in action
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: or their set pieces in comedy. And those are the
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: best moments of the film. So you really want to
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: milk those. You don't have to identify. Number one, what
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: why are people coming to this movie? Okay, they come
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: to a horror movie to be scared. They don't come
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: for character development. They don't come for great dialogue, they
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: don't come for great characterization. Not to say that you
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: don't want those things, but that's not why they came
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: to your movie. They can't to your movie to be scared.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: And I think Wes understood that better than anybody. So
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: he would find these moments and then really milk the
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: hell out of them to make them scarier and scarier.
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: So I learned that from him. And it was.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Because I, you know, after I wrote, after I did
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Deadly Blessing, I didn't do horror anymore. I decided I
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: wanted I didn't want to spend my entire career writing
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: horror movies. I wanted to try new things. So I
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: got into suspense. I did comedies, I did a drama,
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: I did.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: Westerns.
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: I mean, I wrote in every genre, but in every genre.
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: Like I say, you need to be smart about what
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: you're selling, and if you're selling a thriller, you've got
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: to have great thriller moments. And I think that's the
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: most obvious thing, and yet writers don't seem to understand that,
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: especially beginning writers. They get so caught up in their
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: characters and their story and they don't. Don't you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: pull back and go how what's going to sell this movie?
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: And what's going to sell your movie? If it's a thriller,
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: are great moments of thrills. What's going to sell an
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: action film are great action sequences, And the more original
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: they are, the better. So if you do an action
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: movie and you do an action sequence that no one's
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: ever seen before, like if you like car chase is
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: a perfect example. We've seen a million car chases, but
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: what makes this car chase different and original in comparison
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: to all the other car.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Chases we've seen?
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: So you have to come up with those things so
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: that audiences came to be thrilled, to be shocked, to laugh,
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: to whatever they came for.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: You have to give.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: Them that or they're going to leave unsatisfied. And that
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: goes beyond and like you know, artistic concerns, esthetic concerns,
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: these are things that you kind of learn as you
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: become more of a professional. And I think Wes, like
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: I said, he taught me that about horror, And now
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: I'm kind of going back to horror. I just wrote
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: a novel called Ink I n K, which is kind
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: of a horror romance it's a novel that just got
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: published last year. And when I wrote that, I was
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: also like very aware of where am I pain people
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: came to be scared? Where are they being scared? And
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: how original is that? And how many great moments can.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: I find like that?
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: And the same Now I just wrote a teen horror film,
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: and I'm very aware of paying off the expectations of
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: the audience. And they you know, audiences today are very jaded.
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: They've seen everything, So how are you going to give
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: them something that is going to be a little different
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: that's going to make them tell when they leave the
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: movie theaters and they tell their friend, oh my god,
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: you've got to go see this movie. It can't just
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: be the same old thing over and over again. It
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: has to be something unique and a little bit different
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: in some way, even though all plots have been done
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: over and over again. But it's how you.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: Tweak those plots to make them your own.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: So, Glenn, have you seen any movies recently, like, let's say,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: in the past five years, like any horror movies that
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: have really stuck out to you?
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, I've I like to see horror movies.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: Most of the time I get very disappointed in board,
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: but there was one I saw last year that I
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: was impressed by, called It Follows, and.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: That was pretty cool. That was different. It was very
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: low budget. They're just these teens.
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: But then I won't I won't go too much into
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: it because I don't.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Want to ruin it for people.
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: But that is a that was a unique plot that
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: I had never seen before, and it had just enough
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: scares to keep you on the edge of your seat.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: And it was pretty freaky. And I think the freakier
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: it is, the better you know you learn. Like, what
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: is it that horror fans like? Well, one thing they
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: like is freaky stuff. They also like it.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: They also like.
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: Gore. You know, when you watch The Walking Dead, which
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: is like my favorite TV show now.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: There's lots of goer.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: It's it's pretty I mean, they really pay that off
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: with the with the zombies, and even though they have
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: great characters and good character development and interesting relationships, but
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: they do pay off the horror. And I'm really surprised today.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: One thing I'm surprised today about horror is how many
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: women and young young women, teens, girls love horror. That
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: was not so much when I was starting to write horror.
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: It was mostly guys, I thought, who went to horror
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: and they brought their girlfriends along.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: But that's not the case anymore.
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: There are a lot of women and middle aged women,
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: older women, especially younger women who love horror, maybe more than.
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: Even men eyes and I think that's that that really
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: surprised me.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: I actually know I have some girls that are that
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: are friends of mine.
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: They all love horror.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Some of their favorites are like the paranormal activities stuff
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: like that. They really like that stuff, not so much
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: like the soul or the hostiles, but the paranormal activities
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: that the spirit, supernatural stuff they enjoy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not a fan of hostile and and I
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: know they're just.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: That just is not appealing to me.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: I like core that has really good stories.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: That used to be you know when John Carpenter was
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: making horror films and like the Thing and with Craven
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: was at the top of his game with Nightmarrow on
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Elm Street and Scream. Scream was written in my workshop,
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: one of my screenwriting workshops.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: So I know that film really well.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: That you know, you really good stories with great characters,
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: really good dialogue. But it paid off in the way
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: that you know, it's scary. It was scary. It was
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: very I see a lot of horror movie I just
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: don't think they're scary, you know, and I just go, Wow,
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: this isn't gonna work. I mean, so, it's a whole
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: separate genre when you talk about horror, even though it
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: has similarities with other genres, it's really a genre onto itself,
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: and it has its own rules and they're not necessarily
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: the same rules as a typical drama or thriller or
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: something like that. But you know, there will always be horror.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: There will always be zombie movies, there will always be
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: vampire movies, there will always be werewolf movies. But you
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: just have to find a unique take on them. Something
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: so so so.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: But I have to ask, you know. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I didn't even interrupt you. I just wanted to ask,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: you know, really quickly, what did you think of The
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Walking Dead finale? Without giving too much away.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: I thought it was really good. I you know, I've
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: I love The Walking Dead.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: The one thing that I the one criticism I has
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: the Walking Dead even though I love the show it's
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: one of the best shows I've ever seen, is that
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: it seems like it's gone downhill a bit. And one
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: of the things that they do that really annoys me
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: is that they'll start a storyline like, for example, Rick
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: and Michon, you know, that love affair, and then they
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: just drop it. Or they'll start a storyline like with
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: Carl Rick's son that he was he said, I'm a
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: monster too, and he was getting kind of dark, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: then they just stop it.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: They just drop it and you get nothing more about it.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: And uh, I don't know why they do that. They
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: just seem to lose interest. Don't start something going, and
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: then they just seem to lose interest in it. I
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: think that's really frustrating for the audience. Or they oh,
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: they're do something that doesn't make a lot of.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: Sense, like Carol, who.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: All of a sudden decides to leave them. She says,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: I can't kill for you anymore or whatever she said,
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: and then she just left, and that made absolutely no
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: sense to me. Mm hmm, Like why would she leave,
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: Why would she want to do that? You know, she's
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: been killing people.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: For a number of seasons now.
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: She didn't seem to have any problem with it, and
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: now all of a sudden she does, and then she
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: just abruptly leaves, and I just thought, like, this makes
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: no sense. So there's there's there's certain things that they
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: seem to be having problems.
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: I don't know they you know, they when it's it's very.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: Hard to keep the quality of a show going, you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: year after year after year.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: This is what their.
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: Sixth season or something, yes, and you know, it's.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: Very difficult to keep the quality up.
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: And that's why you know, shows like Finefeld or Friends
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: or Cheers, you know, they kept the quality up for
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: you know, many years, and that's a remarkable thing to do,
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: because most times the show will go five six years
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: and then they just burn out. They don't know what
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: to do anymore because it's very difficult, and it looks
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: like they're having those problems now on The Walking Dead,
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: they don't seem to have a good direction of what
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: they want to do. So although like I say, I
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: love that show, I'm absolutely crazy about I'm on Twitter and.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: All of my followers basically are like Walking.
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: Dead stands.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Because with the way you know, this season the sixth
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: season ended was the introduction of the character Nagan and yeah,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: and then when he got you know, he he ends
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: up you know, killing one of the main characters, but
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: you don't see who because we went to that POV
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: of the character.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Now, some fans are like, wow, that was a very
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: cheap way to end it, because now we have to
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: wait October for season seven to see who he killed,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: and you know, it's you know, I mean, I really
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: didn't have that much more problem with the ending, but
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: you know, I can, I think I can see why
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: some people would have, you know, have an issue with it.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah. I mean.
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: The one good thing that Walking Dead about killing.
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: Off like characters that people like, you know, because that
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: if you really invest in a character and then they
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: kill them, I mean, that can drive you crazy. But
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: they seem to have done pretty good. Like one show
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: that has not done well in that way is Game
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: of Thrones. They've killed off the most, you know, the
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: characters that you really are rooting for, and that after.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: A while you just go, Okay, that's it. I'm not
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: going to watch the cityway.
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: And then because they kill off the characters that are
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: actually the ones rebelling against the Lanisters, and that's really
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: what keeps the show going? Who's going to destroy the Lanisters?
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: Who's gonna, you know, lead the rebellion?
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: And once they.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: Killed off the main characters leading the rebellion, they just floundered.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: There was nobody to follow, Like, who am I going
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: to follow now? Who do I care about now? And
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: if you don't do that really well, I know he's
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: the same with the books. The books are the same.
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: I mean they followed the books very. Do you watch
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: that show Game of Thrones? Oh?
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely? Honestly, Glenn like that. That show was one
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: show I didn't even want to get into, and then
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: when I did, I honestly I couldn't wait till every episode.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I was like hooked beyond belief.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: No, I like the show, especially except until it hit
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: the season.
• 29:04
  Speaker 6: Where they killed off you know, the.
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: Mother and the son who were leading the rebellion, right
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: and then that which was and then the Last Seat,
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: which was last season, was after that, and I just
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: thought they were floundering. They really didn't know, Okay, who
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: am I following now? Whose story do I care about?
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: And I thought they you know, the only character I
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: think that's worthy of being a.
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: Protagonist of that show is the Clisi, you.
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: Know, the mother of Dragon. She's a great.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Character, unbelievable character, and.
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: She's worthy of being the star of that show, and
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: you would follow her anywhere, but she was still kind
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: of in the background.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: So I think they've got to put that figure out,
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: you know, I think they lost some of their fan
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: days because of that.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: And now with this new season coming up, which is
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: going to start the end of this month, you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: April twenty sixteen, the new season now starts and it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: not based on any of the books. Well it is, yeah,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: well I'm sorry I meant to say, is it is
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: based on the books, but these books haven't been released
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: yet because last season they call they are all caught
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: up now, so this new season will all be stuff
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: that is going to be so now it's going to
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: be out before the books are out.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Oh that'll be interesting.
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: I just hope it's They bring in Kalisi a lot more.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: Because she's got a great story and she's a very
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: very interesting character, very complex. You never quite know what
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: she's going to do. She makes interesting choices and they
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: all kind of makes sense for who she is. But yeah,
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: she's a terrific character. But I mean, like, here's like
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: the perfect example. First season of Game of Thrones, the
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: guy that you were following, who thought was the star
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: of the show gets killed at the end of the
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: first season. And it was like, what, you know, any
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: other show would never do something like that. You invest
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: in the character and he's the star, and.
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: Then you kill him.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: It was like, oh my god, I can't believe that happened,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: but you know, that's what they've done.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: So, you know, Glenn, you know, just to I'm sorry,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't mean to go talk too much about the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Walking Dead, but I wanted to talk to well, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: just to talk more about you know, your career and
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: your work. You know, you mentioned that, you know, during
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: your one of your screaminting workshops. You know, one of
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: your students actually wrote Scream. You know that actually is actually,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: you know, incredibly interesting because I remember the first time
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I saw Scream. You know, I got it. You know
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: what I mean, And what I mean by I got
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: it means I want me bay. That is it was.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: It was it was a love letter to the slasher
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: genre because they they elevated it because they you know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: it had so many you know, twists and turns and
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know. Scream was you know, created by
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Kevin Williamson. I actually read the screenplay in a horror
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: class I actually took, and so I wanted to, you know,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: if we could, you know, about developing that screenplay. I mean,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: I think you know, any any sort of you know,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: anecdotes or any stories you have about that were you
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: know about you know, guiding Kevin through that, if you
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: could tell any to myself and the listeners, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: I think benefits.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: Previously, we had developed another screenplay that he wrote called
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: it ended up being called Teaching Missus Tangle, which actually
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: did get produced eventually after Scream. You know, he's a
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: brilliant writer, and he loved horror very clever, you know.
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: So part of what I think made Scream so great
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: was that the dialogue was very clever, very witty. And
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: then he did the thing that he did that was
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: so different was that he basically made fun of the
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: horror genre. Right, He deconstructed the horror genre by the
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: characters who you know that were horror fans, and they
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: kept saying, well, you know, in all horror films as
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: soon as you have sex, you get killed, which is
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: really kind of true that you know, as soon as
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: a couple has sex, you know they're going to die,
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: you know. So he took all those kind of, you know,
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: little platitudes about horror and he made fun of them,
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: and at the same time he had a really good story.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: He had a backstory for the main protagonist about her
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: mother being murdered and she put the wrong person in jail,
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: and so it had a complexity to it. At the
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: same time, he came up with very original scary moments,
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: very original, like the one where they're in the garage
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: and they try to go through the doggy door and
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: then the killer comes and then raises the door and
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: they basically decapitated up there. I mean, that's like I'd
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: never seen anything like that before. That was just totally original. See,
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: that's the kind of suck you want to come up with,
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: you know, horror moments that you go, oh, that was killer,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: you know, and you'll tell people about it. Those are
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: the kind of things that you want. But with the
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: only thing that I was a little concerned about with
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: that screenplay was that it verged on comedy at times,
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: you know, and a lot of times when you you
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: don't want to confuse a reader or a studio whatever
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: is this horror or is this comedy? And some people
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: have gotten away with writing horror comedy, like zombie Land
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: that was kind of a horror comedy. But it's hard
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: to do that and it can easily confuse people. Well,
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: am I supposed to be laughing? Or am I supposed
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: to be scared?
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: So all I was advising him to stay away from
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: the comedy. Not to say it shouldn't be witty and
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: have funny stuff, but you're never confused about what the.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Tone of this thing is. That it's horror and it
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: doesn't and not.
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: To say, you know, really good horror has good moments
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: of witty dialogue that can be funny and humorous, but
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: you're never going to be confused that this is supposed
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: to be funny. It's comedy, I mean, it's horror. So
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: that was the only thing that I kind of was
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: trying to advise Kevin about.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: You know that you stayed with that tone.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: But you know, what's great about being in a writer's workshop,
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: and especially we had a great class at that time
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: I had. I had Melissa mathieson I'm Sorry, Melissa Rosenberg.
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: Within that class, she wrote ended up writing all the
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: Twilight movies.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: She was the execut she was an.
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: Executive producer on Dexter. I mean, she became a major,
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: a major writer, and she's really well known now. I
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: had another student in that class named Dana Barrada who
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: wrote a film called Andre, a true story about this
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: field that got captured and became like this legend in
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: this town. And she was in that group. So we
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: had a bunch of movies that were produced out of
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: this class. So the better the group is, the better
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: the idea is you're going to get. And that's why
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: it's so great to be in a workshop is that
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: everybody is throwing out the best ideas they have, and
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: a lot of times you'll go, oh, wow, what a
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: great idea. I'll use that, you know, and it just
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: makes for better writers. It's just like when in all comedy.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: Workshops they work in.
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: Groups and everybody throws out funny ideas and the writer
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: takes what he can and you just pump up the
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: script that way. Well, it's the same in any workshop
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: you have.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Really great writers are going to give you good.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: Ideas and you take them and you say thank you. Well,
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: where would you get those, you know, those great ideas?
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: If you want in a workshop, you'd be all by
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: yourself and you come up with stuff and you do
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: the best you can. But I want to be around
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: really creative, smart people who give me great ideas. And
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: that's why when I, you know, as a screenwriter myself,
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: when I was working with a who was really good
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: with giving notes, those are the scripts that got made.
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: When I was working with a producer who was like
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: really good with business and he was great and selling
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: stuff and he was had good connections and whatnot, but
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: he didn't know how to give great notes to the writers,
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: those movies never got made.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: So you really, you know.
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: You're only as good as the feedback you're getting. You're
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: only as good as the feedback you're getting. And you
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: so I keep you know, telling writers and you know
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: you need great feedback. And it's just like the same
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: with athletes. They're only as good as the coaching they're getting.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: And so you need a.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: Great coach, you need a great team behind you, and
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: you're gonna help them and they're gonna help you. So
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: your script is going to end up becoming at least
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: twenty five to thirty percent better, and that twenty five
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: percent can make the difference between selling something and not
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: selling something.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: I agree, Glenn. You know, I've been a part of
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: their own writers' groups. Some notes I think are you know,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: I find very helpful. Some notes I'm kind of puzzled.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what does what does this mean? You know,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: And that's sort of you know, some of the things
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: that I used to have, like you know what. For instance,
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: in one screen rinting group, we would write ten pages
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: of each screenplay and then that way we would get
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: notes about you know, development and stuff like that. And
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: some people, you know, really you know, you wrote an
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: outline before they did so, and other people they just
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: went in there completely blind.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: They just said, you know what, I'm just gonna.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Find out like the characters, and I'm just going to
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: go in there and write these ten pages. And it
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: was interesting to see all the different notes you get
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: because some people have, you know, backgrounds in theaters. Some
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: people had backgrounds as as you know, because they're a
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: huge movie buff.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: See they've seen you know, you know, twenty thousand movies
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: or whatever, you know what I mean, and they would
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: use that knowledge just sort of Okay, this is what
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: this reminds me of, you know, and this is where
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: you could take the story. Stuff like that, you know,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: if you know what I mean.
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: Sure, I just think it's important that you have somebody.
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: Really knowledgeable who's leading those groups, because otherwise, like when
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: I was in getting my playwriting degree, we would do
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: these staged readings and you know, if you open to
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: anybody who wanted to come, and they would throw out
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: all this stuff and you you could evily leave the
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: reading going I don't know what to do now, you know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: and a writer because one person says black and one
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: person says white, one person says I love this, I
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: hate this.
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: You know, you really need somebody who can lead the
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: group and really identify exactly.
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: What is the problem here, and then they they you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: we brainstorm.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: With the writers.
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: Okay, we can solve it like this, We can solve
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: it like that, because there's all even answer to a problem.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: So but it's extremely important to identify exactly what's wrong
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: and then and then you brainstorm and you may not
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: like all the suggestions you're getting, but at least you know, Okay,
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: this is the problem I'm having. So even the ideas
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: that you get are maybe not the right ones, but
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: at least you know exactly what you're supposed to solve.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: And you should never leave a workshop being confused, never
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: or not knowing exactly what to do next.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: And that's why I say it's so important.
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: Like when I was a young screenwriter, I would give
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: my scripts to whoever, you know, give it to my girlfriend,
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: give it to you know, and they would.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Give me no.
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: Sometimes it would set me back because they didn't know
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: what they were doing and they told me some stupid
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: shit that had nothing to do with anything, and you
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: never want that. Like, it's very important who you show
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: your scripts to and who's giving you the feedback, and
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: that they're knowledgeable and they know about screenplays and they
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: know how to fix screenplays. They're not just somebody who's like,
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: either oh that's so wonderful, honey, you know, or they
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: come up with something that has nothing to do with
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: what's really relevant and they totally confuse you. So it's
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: very important who you're getting the feedback from, and you
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: should never be confused. And that's how when you get
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: the right feedback. Every time you do a path on
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: a screenplay, it gets better. And that's the key and
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: the evidence that you're on the right track. Okay, this
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: draft is better than that draft, and the next draft
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: was better than that draft.
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: But I used to write drafts.
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: And they would get worse, you know, and that never happened.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: Never that you're writing something, it gets worse. No, it
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: should never get worse. It should always get better and
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: better and better. So all the work you're putting into
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: a screenplay is just elevating that screenplay. And you know, really,
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: you can read all the books in the world, not
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: to say it's not good to read some books about slay,
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: about screenwriting or you know, take these different classes, but
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: the only way you really learn is by doing it.
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: That's the only way you really learn. You start writing
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: screenplays and the first one's probably not going to be
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: very good, but the second one, hopefully will be better,
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: and the third one will be even better than that.
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: And you're getting really good feedback, not just somebody who's
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: you know, seen a lot of movies and they think
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: they're an expert, because analyzing screenplays is a real talent,
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: and even people whose job it is to do it
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: are not always very.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: Good at doing it.
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: So it's so valuable when you find somebody who really
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: knows how to help.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: You, you know, go from.
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: One great draft to the next great draft to the
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: next great draft.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: Right, you know what I was just saying about getting
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: the notes. You know that's something too is. You know,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: sometimes I would come in with a draft, okay, for
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: for instance, you know, I wrote this slasher that was
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: kind of like a throwback to Friday the thirteenth, and
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: you know, some people would just give me notes, and
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: some people really enjoyed how I set this up. And
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: I know people would just give me notes that I
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: would say, I don't understand, you know what, So I so,
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: you know, I realized that, you know, the ones that
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: sort of made it. I knew were I knew as
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: soon as I heard the idea, I knew I'd be like, Okay,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: like a blue bulb of my head, I'm like, okay,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: that could actually.
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: Work right, right, And you will, you know, when you
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: hear something that's right, you will recognize it is right.
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: You know, you'll go, oh, of course, yeah, it just
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: rings true. But like I said, if you're getting a
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: lot of mediocre feedback or stupid feedback or whatever, it
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: can literally set you back, not.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: Help you go forward.
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: And so much of.
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: Being a writer or any artist is self confidence. And
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: just like athletes, when athletes lose their self kind of
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: if you follow tennis, but Rapa is one of the
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: great tennis players of all time, right and lately he's
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: lost his confidence and he's not winning tournament anymore. He's
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: just winning majors. He's like number five in the world
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: now or something. He used to be number one in
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: the world for many years, but he kind of lost
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: his confidence. So as an athlete, confidence is everything. And
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: it's the same for artists to be confident about what
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: you're doing. So if you hear the wrong feedback and
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: it makes you start thinking in the wrong direction and
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: then you get confused, now you're losing your confidence and
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: you never want that. If you hear the right feedback
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: and you go, oh, of course, and here's how to
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: solve that problem. Now you're feeling confident. I've identified what
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: the problem is, and I have some great ideas on
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: how to fix that problem.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, when I interviewed Corey Mandel for this podcast.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: He actually mentioned something along those lines too, because he
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: actually recommended a book about to all screenwriters and it
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: was a book on psychology, because he said, you have
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: to have this confidence inside you and you know, he's
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: there's a in the book. I think it's a book
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: by I think it's cowl Zwhack is her name, and insights.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: She actually talks about the theater of your mind and
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: if you give you know, seating so to speak to
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: all these negative thoughts inside your brain, it's like they're
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: getting front row seats of the stage. But she said,
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: you need to take them and put them in the
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: back and put all your positive you know, thinking in
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: the in the in the front seats. So that way,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: you know, it's about having that confidence about having that
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: you can do that in that positive mental attitude.
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: Right now, that makes a lot of sense.
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: And you know, the players, like I relate a lot
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: of things to tennis, is because I know a lot
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: about tennis and I watch it. Is. What gives a
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: lot of confidence to these players is their team. They
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: all have a team around them. They have a coach,
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: they have a nutritionist, they have you know, people that
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: they hit with. They they travel with teams, you know,
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: and they have five or six people to travel with them,
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: and those people give them confidence because they're on totally
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: on their side and they're doing everything they can to
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: elevate that player to excellence. And it's the same for
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: an artist. You need a team of people around you
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: who are going to be there.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: Just for you.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: They're not there because they're jealous. They're not there because
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: they want to knock you down. They're there to make
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: you great and they're saying the right things to get
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: you to that next level. So that's why it's important
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: to have that team, that team around you. And you
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: know when I mean, I have many workshops and every
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: once in a while, I get a group that's just
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: unusually talented and great and as a team, we can
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: do so great on people's screenplays because we're just giving
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: the best idea and we're there to help them just
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: like they're there to help us. So you know, that
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: can make all the difference. When you're working on a screenplay.
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: You have all these right brilliant people who know film
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: and they're there jets to make your screenplay better. And
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: that's your team, and that gives.
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: You confidence and that gives you, you know.
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: A leg up.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: You know, that's very that's very true, Glenn. You know,
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: I I noticed, you know, by the clock we're almost
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: running out of time because I know you you know,
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: I don't want to keep too eat up too much
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: of your time. But one of the questions that came in,
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: which is that I'm just going to ask because a
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: couple of the uh, it actually came into a couple
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: of different iterations. It's actually do with what we were
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: just talking about, bout building a team and you know,
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: writing and ideas and stuff, and basically is you know,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: what advice do you have for a screenwriter that's writing
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: their first draft.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: and now out back to the show.
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: Don't be critical towards yourself.
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: In other words, don't Number one, don't expect that it's
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: going to come out good, okay, because most first drafts
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: are not good.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: Just let it pour out. Don't judge it. Just you know,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: hopefully you got a.
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: Decent outline, you know where you're going, You have a beginning, middle,
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: and end, and then just let it pour out. Don't
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: worry about how long it is, how short it is.
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: If you're you know you're having trouble, your dialogue isn't
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: so great, it doesn't matter. Just let it pour out.
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: And then once you've written it and you've got it
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: all there, now you've got something to work with. And
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: then in the second draft you can solve certain problems.
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: In the third draft you'll solve other problems. In the
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: fourth draft you'll solve other problem. You can't solve everything
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: at once. Your only solve a few things. And all
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: you want to do is just let it pour out
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: of you. And don't you know the reason people get
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: blocked is they expect that it's gonna come out wonderfully
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: the first time in it.
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: That's ridiculous.
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: I mean, if you were going to learn to play
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: the piano, classical piano, you wouldn't think that you would
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: just sit down and play Mozart.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, you just would never think such a thing.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: And yet, for some reason, people think, if I'm writing
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: my first screenplay, it's it's gonna come out it's gonna
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: be great.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: No, it's not gonna be great.
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: It's gonna be very rough and it's gonna need work.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: But that's okay. You just want to get it down
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: for now. So my biggest advice is to don't judge yourself.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Don't don't think it's gonna be wonderful.
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: You're you're just trying to get it out, let it
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: pour out of you, and you're gonna discover things. And
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: then once you have a first draft, that's when you
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: start looking for feedback, and really good feedback like we
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: talked about, where somebody who's really knowledgeable can help you
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: identify exactly what's working and exactly what's not working, and then.
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: You solve the problems of what's not working.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: That's a you know, great advice. You know, like I said,
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a couple of different versions of that
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: was the number one question that came in, so I
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: wanted to make sure to ask that, so, you know, Glenn,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: you know, in closing, do you have any any sort
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: of final thoughts that you wanted to sort of add
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: to sort of put a period at the end of
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: this whole conversation.
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, for anybody that's listening, please feel free
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: to call me at my home. You're perfectly I like
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: to talk to new writers.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: I like to help writers, you know.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: I've been a screen a professional screenwriter my entire career.
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: I'm still at it. But I've also been an instructor
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: and I have these workshops. I've had six films produced
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: from my groups. And I like to work with young writers.
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: I like to mentor people. So feel free to call
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: me at my numbers eight one eight three nine six
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: five seven two four.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: That's eight one eight three nine.
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: Six five seven two four, or you can email me
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: at g Bennist atpacbell dot net and I'll be happy
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: to talk to you and you can tell me what
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: you're if you have any questions or any way I
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: can help you.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: And uh, you know, I get I get a.
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: Great deal of uh satisfaction from that, especially like something
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: like Scream. You know, if I can help somebody get
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: screen produced, it gives me a tremendous amount of satisfaction.
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: So I like to work with.
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: With young writers, you know, and I like to be
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: a part of the process. And every once in a
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: while we're lucky enough to get a film produced.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, that's amazing Glenn, that you know, you
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: allow people to call you and and uh and uh,
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone, I want you to check out Glenn's
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: website at Glenn Beennis dot com. I will link that
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: in the show notes along with Glenn's latest novel, inc.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: I'm going to link to that in the show notes
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: as well. But Glenn, I want to say, you know,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: talking to us for you know, fifty minutes. I really
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: appreciate it. And you know, honestly, Glenn, I really look
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: forward to just seeing you know everything you come up with,
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: and I might actually email you to I ask some
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: screenwady questions.
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: So I mean, all right, Dave, it's send a lot
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: of fun talking to you.
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: You too, Glenn.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I will talk to you soon, my friend, Take care,
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Bye bye.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any filmuscle dot
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: com Forward slash eight sixty seven. If you have it already,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: for listening. Guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: that dream alive, Stay safe, out there and I'll talk
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: to you soon.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 55:13
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• 55:15
  Speaker 1: dot com.