Latest / The BIG Home Ed Conversations | Home Education / The Truth About Worldschooling with Luna Flowerday: Radical Unschooling, Travel, and Real-Life Learning on the Road

Transcript

The Truth About Worldschooling with Luna Flowerday: Radical Unschooling, Travel, and Real-Life Learning on the Road · The BIG Home Ed Conversations | Home Education

• 0:12
  Hello everybody, welcome to the big home Ed conversations.
• 0:15
  You are here as always with myself, Kelly Rigg.
• 0:17
  I'm a home Ed mom of two and founder of off Roading
• 0:19
  motherhood and my fellow Co host Ashley Venerio, who is a home Ed
• 0:23
  mom of three and an ex primary teacher.
• 0:25
  Now we've started this podcast wanting to bring you
• 0:28
  conversations that went beyond the myths.
• 0:30
  We don't want to talk about the same old, same old hang ups and
• 0:33
  fears that we're all sick of talking about.
• 0:35
  We know the truth. We know that home education is
• 0:37
  awesome and we wanted to make sure that you were talking about
• 0:39
  things that really matter to you and actually helped you to
• 0:43
  overcome some of the real shifts and mindset changes that we need
• 0:45
  to go through. Embracing new ways of thinking,
• 0:49
  new ways of approaching life and and starting to show your homo
• 0:53
  journey a little bit of love. Basically today we have invited
• 0:57
  on Luna. She is a world schooler and
• 1:00
  someone who is travelling the world with her husband, her
• 1:01
  three children, just doing the most incredible things.
• 1:05
  And ultimately we wanted to have a conversation with someone
• 1:07
  who's really living it because I personally am really seriously
• 1:11
  considering while schooling. And it's something which I think
• 1:13
  that much like home education, there's so many preconceived
• 1:17
  fears of what the kind of the myths and the struggles might
• 1:22
  be. So we basically have interviewed
• 1:25
  her, we've had a really great chat with her and we're
• 1:27
  essentially bringing you a conversation that is going to
• 1:29
  really, really touch on how you're going to make an income
• 1:32
  as you go along. What actually really matters as
• 1:35
  you're travelling, How to ensure that you stay regulated as a
• 1:37
  family, to make sure that everybody is kind of meeting
• 1:40
  their needs. That you're not constantly
• 1:42
  dysregulating the whole kind of apple cart with travelling and
• 1:46
  sort of getting off the beaten track, making that not too
• 1:48
  scary. Really kind of overcoming some
• 1:50
  of those kind of real like like early level fears that I'm
• 1:54
  currently having as I'm doing my research and thinking about
• 1:56
  world schooling. And also just to kind of really
• 1:59
  hear the beauty of some of the experiences her kids have had.
• 2:02
  Just being able to live that kind of really lovely kind of
• 2:05
  radical unschooling life that's based around just really
• 2:08
  experiencing the world that we are in.
• 2:11
  And also kind of the real benefit that can have to a
• 2:14
  child's education and, and ours too, in terms of just how it can
• 2:18
  really benefit us as people and where that can actually take us.
• 2:21
  So really hope you enjoy this conversation and just make sure
• 2:25
  you are dropping a line to us letting us know if you've got
• 2:27
  any follow up questions because I know that Luna will be more
• 2:29
  than happy to have a further chat with us if you've got any
• 2:32
  other questions you want to ask her.
• 2:34
  So with no further ado, let's jump in.
• 2:40
  Hello Lunas. We are so excited to chat to you
• 2:43
  today because I know that you are off on an incredible
• 2:46
  adventure with your kids and your husband obviously as well.
• 2:50
  Listen, so doesn't he's involved And we thought we'd just, we
• 2:54
  obviously wanted to have Luna on today to talk to you guys about
• 2:57
  her incredible adventure, but also to help you to guys to
• 3:00
  understand that actually this is a reality that this actually
• 3:03
  happens and people are doing it. And actually, it's not as
• 3:06
  difficult to access as maybe we all might think.
• 3:10
  And so I know that like I, for example, have been dying to
• 3:13
  world school for years. It's 100% on my bucket list to
• 3:16
  just run away and to go and explore the world.
• 3:19
  But but how did you even get to the point of wanting to start
• 3:23
  doing something like this? Like where did where did that
• 3:25
  even start that conversation? I mean, it's kind of been a bit
• 3:30
  of a journey, but like we were chatting about before we started
• 3:33
  recording, you know, ever since we started our family seven
• 3:36
  years ago, like we very soon realized that society's norm
• 3:40
  when it came to family life where you, you know, essentially
• 3:44
  spend the littlest time with the ones that matter the most to
• 3:47
  you, right? Because we're all meant to split
• 3:49
  up at the start of the day and go to care or our jobs and all
• 3:52
  of that sort of thing. We were just like, that's not
• 3:54
  for us. Like there has to be another
• 3:56
  way. Like it's not fair that my
• 3:58
  husband has to go back to work two weeks after, you know, and
• 4:02
  our son was born. It just, and he was just missing
• 4:05
  so much of his first year of life.
• 4:07
  And I was just like, I have to find a way to, you know, bring
• 4:11
  him like for us to be together, but still obviously earn an
• 4:14
  income to, you know, to live and pay the bills and put food on
• 4:19
  the table and all that sort of thing.
• 4:21
  So, yeah, we just started thinking creatively and we
• 4:24
  pursued, you know, some online income streams and we ended up,
• 4:28
  we were renting a unit and we ended up absolutely selling
• 4:32
  everything and buying a really cheap bus, fitting it out
• 4:36
  ourselves. And then we, we moved into that
• 4:39
  and, you know, all we had to pay for was, and back then petrol
• 4:43
  was a lot of fuel. I don't know what what you guys
• 4:45
  call it over that petrol fuel was a lot cheaper.
• 4:49
  This was in like 2019-2020. So we're just paying like
• 4:54
  petrol, food, you know, insurance on our bus and like
• 4:58
  our phone credit and like we just like we minimize to just
• 5:02
  spending money on that. And we're like, wow, we had so
• 5:05
  much freedom and we literally travelled around Australia for
• 5:08
  two years, you know, only and and growing up businesses.
• 5:12
  I had another baby in that time. So we were a newborn and a
• 5:16
  toddler in the bus and we just realized.
• 5:19
  Travelling around during COVID like.
• 5:22
  Honestly, during COVID newborn growing a business doing all the
• 5:25
  I like look back on that time and I'm like, that was so wild.
• 5:29
  Like what were we thinking if you?
• 5:32
  If you manage it, then you can manage anything.
• 5:34
  I'm not entirely sure there's no challenge.
• 5:36
  You can't cook. Exactly.
• 5:37
  We like threw ourselves in the deep end and we were like, well
• 5:40
  if we can do this, we can do anything.
• 5:43
  So we got a taste of travelling then and we just got a taste of
• 5:46
  like how free it feels to not need much and like to just have
• 5:53
  the absolute basics when it came to possessions and like you
• 5:56
  know, the basics when it came to bills.
• 5:58
  And you know, we were able to free camp for like that whole 2
• 6:02
  years. I think we paid to stay in a
• 6:03
  caravan park, you know, maybe 2020 nights out of the two
• 6:07
  years. So yeah, it was like, and and
• 6:12
  we'll see. We're spending all of our time
• 6:13
  in nature. We're waking up with the sun,
• 6:15
  you know, going to bed at sunset.
• 6:17
  It was just a really beautiful life.
• 6:19
  And that there's definitely challenges in bus life.
• 6:21
  Like it's all not, it's not all like sunsets and beaches and
• 6:24
  that sort of thing. But yeah, it just gave us a
• 6:28
  taste of like that freedom lifestyle.
• 6:31
  And then we, you know, our kind of idea travelling around was
• 6:35
  like we really wanted to find home and land to kind of go off
• 6:39
  grid and like grow as much of our own food as we could and all
• 6:43
  of that sort of thing. So we were looking for that like
• 6:45
  somewhere affordable while we're travelling around Australia.
• 6:48
  And we're, because we, you know, we're growing our business and
• 6:52
  our expenses weren't much. We like, we're saving for a
• 6:54
  deposit and we, we found a place and we like sold our bus to put
• 6:59
  towards the house deposit and we bought 40 acres a house.
• 7:05
  And we really at that time, we did that because of everything
• 7:08
  that was going on in the world. Like you said, it was COVID
• 7:11
  during those years and we were like, we might not even be able
• 7:13
  to travel overseas again like this.
• 7:15
  This is the, this is the option for us right now.
• 7:18
  Like we, we just need to ground down and find a base for our
• 7:21
  family and, you know, learn all the, how to pick our own food,
• 7:26
  like, you know, do all the homesteading stuff.
• 7:28
  Like we're like really ready to do that.
• 7:30
  And then we soon realized like, that's hard to do when you've
• 7:35
  got young kids. And then I got pregnant pretty
• 7:38
  much as soon as we, we bought the house and land.
• 7:42
  So I was pregnant and then we had another newborn and like, so
• 7:45
  we had three super young kids and then we had like 67 projects
• 7:49
  going on our land and, and we, and, you know, still growing our
• 7:54
  businesses and stuff. And I was like, wow, like, and,
• 7:56
  and also like when you get a house, you know, we fell into
• 8:00
  the same trap again. We got like, you know, all the
• 8:02
  stuff in the house and we'll suddenly like going from living
• 8:05
  so simply in a bar, we're suddenly surrounded by stuff in
• 8:07
  a house and they, you know, and then all the other bills that
• 8:09
  come along with owning a house. And we kind of felt again, a bit
• 8:13
  stale and stuck and, you know, interest rates rising, cost of
• 8:20
  living going up. We were just like I, I, I
• 8:23
  remember saying to Ben one day, I was like, you know what, we
• 8:25
  could be travelling Asia and spending less, you know, than
• 8:29
  what we are right now. And we're spending more time
• 8:31
  together rather than like cleaning a house and like
• 8:34
  working on all these projects that are half finished and all
• 8:36
  that sort of thing. I was like, you know, why the
• 8:38
  kids are still young? Like, why not?
• 8:40
  Like we we have built those income streams that are location
• 8:44
  independent. Like why, why not go and travel
• 8:48
  while the kids are young? Like what a beautiful gift to
• 8:50
  get them. And we had decided at that time
• 8:53
  that we weren't going to send these kids to school.
• 8:57
  So, you know, we were like world schooling would be so epic.
• 9:00
  Like I personally, I was born in Papua New Guinea and we left
• 9:05
  when I was 3. And I also went back there for
• 9:07
  two years to leave when I was 11 and 12.
• 9:09
  And like, my family, we like, so like middle.
• 9:15
  What's the word middle, Middle class.
• 9:18
  Like, we weren't rich and, you know, most of our stuff was
• 9:21
  second hand. But my parents did save money
• 9:23
  towards travels because they really saw the investment in US
• 9:27
  learning about the world. Yeah.
• 9:29
  Memories and experiencing different cultures.
• 9:32
  And I personally know how much that impacted me and just like,
• 9:37
  energetically imprinted me as a kid and my perspective of the
• 9:41
  world. And I was like, I want to give
• 9:42
  that to my kids. It's so inspiring.
• 9:46
  I think early memories of travelling for me as well, like
• 9:49
  my mum and dad didn't have any money for travel until we were
• 9:52
  sort of teenagers really. And my dad happened to do like a
• 9:55
  website for someone back when like doing websites is like this
• 9:57
  really like early thing. And he got like 10 grand for
• 10:00
  doing it. And he was like, we're going to
• 10:02
  Australia. And it's actually the first
• 10:04
  place I ever went abroad going from the UK was going to Perth
• 10:08
  in Australia, went to visit family.
• 10:10
  So we stayed with them for two weeks and it's a heck of a long
• 10:12
  way to go for two weeks. But literally we spent the whole
• 10:15
  time being like, wow, like this is the most incredible things.
• 10:18
  Like I got to see the jellyfish in the river and the ride on a
• 10:21
  camel and sort of, I think it's possum or something ran across
• 10:24
  that pathway in front of us and jumped off the side.
• 10:26
  It's just the most incredible thing is Kangaroos right at the
• 10:28
  back window and you open, open the curtains in the morning.
• 10:30
  Like my great uncle or whatever, he was giving me a slice of
• 10:34
  bread and being like come out and feed the Kangaroos, having a
• 10:36
  bit of a laugh with me and watching me scream and run back
• 10:39
  in as they came bowling towards me.
• 10:42
  Like just awful, awful man. But it just it was just the
• 10:45
  most, I mean, I would say the memories I've got, I've got so
• 10:48
  many is such a rich combination of memories for me from a time
• 10:52
  in my life. I think I was 10.
• 10:54
  So like there's like, do I remember much of my weeks at
• 10:57
  school? No.
• 10:58
  Do I remember much of my day-to-day life?
• 11:00
  No, do I remember that? Yes, I do like and actually all
• 11:04
  of those experiences that's socializing with different
• 11:06
  people, meeting new cultures, seeing different things,
• 11:09
  learning about the tribal kind of side of things like seeing
• 11:12
  the aboriginal art, trying the food.
• 11:14
  I remember all of it. I remember all the different
• 11:16
  like flavours of Fanta, like literally there's so much that I
• 11:19
  remember from that time. And actually, if you if you
• 11:22
  think about how that can then impact learning, like it's a no
• 11:25
  brainer to me. Like yes, I guess I mean the
• 11:27
  this question I have in that we'll kind of get to I guess in
• 11:29
  a little while. But the like the go while when
• 11:31
  you're travelling a lot, like whether or not that starts to
• 11:33
  dull and you don't necessarily always get that impact.
• 11:36
  But I think it's but yeah, I can't imagine it does.
• 11:40
  I just think just that it must always be just something,
• 11:42
  something new and exciting and interesting and stories to be
• 11:44
  told from different places you've been.
• 11:47
  But it must just create new stocks of memories for you.
• 11:51
  Yeah. And just like, I mean, like you
• 11:54
  were saying, like I think back to like my childhood and so many
• 11:57
  of the memories that stand out, not necessarily like we didn't
• 12:00
  go only went on like one big overseas trip with my parents,
• 12:04
  but you know, even just the camping trips.
• 12:06
  Like that's what you remember. Like, you know, the times where
• 12:08
  you're just like out of your regular routine in a new
• 12:12
  environment and just like seeing all these new cool things and
• 12:15
  everything. So like exciting and different
• 12:18
  and like you just like soak it all up.
• 12:20
  And that's what like imprints on you as a kid is like, how cool
• 12:25
  was that? Because it was so different to
• 12:26
  your everyday norm. But of course, like when you're
• 12:29
  traveling to so many different countries that it, yeah, there's
• 12:33
  just, I think the most beautiful thing I've seen with my kids is
• 12:39
  just them noticing like all the different ways of living and
• 12:43
  being in the world. Because we were in a beautiful
• 12:45
  community back in Australia and there was lots of like minded
• 12:49
  families who had a beautiful homeschooling community.
• 12:51
  But it wasn't very diverse, you know, it was very white.
• 12:56
  And we had a work, I had a work trip to Fiji that I took the
• 13:01
  kids along on one time. And I did notice like, you know,
• 13:05
  there was that, you know, they hadn't been around dark skinned
• 13:08
  people before and they were a bit wary of them and things.
• 13:11
  And I was like, I don't want my kids to be like that.
• 13:12
  And I can understand why they are because I have kept them
• 13:16
  sheltered. And I want them to see all the
• 13:20
  different types of people in the world and all the ways that they
• 13:22
  live and all the things that they eat and, you know, all the
• 13:25
  religions that they have and just know that like, you know,
• 13:29
  essentially we're all the same. We just choose these different
• 13:32
  ways of living and being. And just like, yeah, just giving
• 13:35
  that them that like full cultural understanding of like
• 13:40
  how big and diverse this world is.
• 13:43
  He gives them such permission to write to, to carve their own
• 13:46
  path, to decide what they believe in.
• 13:50
  My son at the moment, for example, he's been listening to
• 13:52
  the Percy Jackson books and he's now decided that he believes in
• 13:55
  the Greek gods. And they are now he's gods.
• 13:57
  And it, it amuses me so much. We're not religious people, so
• 13:59
  apologies if that's offensive to anybody who's listening, but
• 14:02
  we're we don't tend to follow a specific religion.
• 14:05
  But he has now decided that the Greek mythology kind of like all
• 14:09
  the Thor and Zeus and that are now he's gods and he's going to
• 14:12
  worship them. And I love because it's just
• 14:14
  adorable. Like he's talking about them all
• 14:16
  the time. He knows so much about them now
• 14:19
  and he he will literally just say like, Oh my Thor and stuff
• 14:23
  like that. It's just so funny.
• 14:26
  And I just like, it's just adorable.
• 14:27
  And I just think I wonder like as he experiences other cultures
• 14:30
  and he gets into different stories and like digests
• 14:33
  different information as he goes around the world with us, that
• 14:35
  hopefully he will start to actually see all these amazing
• 14:39
  different religions and get so curious about them.
• 14:40
  Like he's clearly shown such curiosity in that kind of the
• 14:44
  mythology that goes into stories.
• 14:46
  And we've been talking about how they all connect and how
• 14:49
  actually a lot of religions have quite similar stories or stories
• 14:51
  that have been poached from one religion and get drawn into
• 14:54
  another. And all the rest of it is really
• 14:56
  fascinating. And I think it, it really helps
• 14:58
  him to get an understanding of human beings as a, as a creature
• 15:03
  and why we are so different to quite a lot of other creatures
• 15:05
  on this planet is because we have this kind of philosophical
• 15:08
  desire. And that's really, really
• 15:10
  interesting. But I think also like the
• 15:12
  animals and the plants and the, the, the deserts and the ice and
• 15:17
  the mountains and the rainforests, like there's so
• 15:20
  much to take in from those different environments and to
• 15:22
  like the skills you need to be in those environments.
• 15:25
  The the types of tools you might need to use, the sorts of stuff
• 15:28
  you'll need to pack and bring with you, the whatever.
• 15:31
  I mean, this must take such planning.
• 15:32
  I mean, I wonder sometimes, like when you are travelling around,
• 15:35
  because you said you do it quite slowly, don't you tend to go to
• 15:37
  a place and stay there for quite a while?
• 15:39
  Do you find that that is one of the ways that you kind of
• 15:41
  overcome that kind of constant feel?
• 15:43
  Like, I think that if you're doing it quite fast, you'd spend
• 15:46
  an awful lot of time having to plan ahead, think ahead,
• 15:48
  thinking about all the possible things that you could do in that
• 15:51
  place, really make the most of the time that you're there.
• 15:54
  I feel like it would put quite a lot of pressure on it.
• 15:56
  Yeah, we definitely like when we decided to do this, I was like,
• 16:03
  it has to be a lifestyle. And for it to be a lifestyle,
• 16:06
  you know, it needs to be able to like our nervous systems need to
• 16:10
  stay regulated. And of course, you know, travel
• 16:13
  days and stuff with kids are super dysregulating, like
• 16:16
  arriving in a completely new culture And you know, whether
• 16:19
  there's, you know, time changes and all of that thing, it is
• 16:22
  dysregulating. So we try and minimize those
• 16:25
  travel days as much as possible and like really like go to
• 16:29
  countries that are close by to the one we've just been in.
• 16:32
  So we're not having like massive time differences.
• 16:35
  And also, you know, just be wary that it is going to take a
• 16:40
  couple days to settle in. And what else was I going to say
• 16:45
  on that? Oh, yeah.
• 16:46
  And then choose like, maybe two to three places in whatever way
• 16:50
  country we're going in, to just base in, rather than being like,
• 16:54
  we've got to take off all these sites because we're going to
• 16:57
  this country. We have to take off all these
• 16:58
  major sites because then you just end up not enjoying it.
• 17:01
  And like then the kids are dysregulating and the kids just
• 17:04
  get, you know, extra wild and it's like no one's having fun.
• 17:08
  It's like, what's the point? And I think a lot of travel is
• 17:11
  like that because people like, well, if I'm going to go to a
• 17:13
  country, I've got to tick off all the things when really like
• 17:18
  we're very much about is like, how do you want to feel while
• 17:21
  you're traveling? Like what cultural experiences
• 17:24
  matter to you? And for us, it's just immersing
• 17:26
  in the day-to-day life. Like we very rarely go and you
• 17:31
  know, see the big sights and things because often I find them
• 17:34
  underwhelming or they're super busy or just like, you know,
• 17:38
  you're just kind of doing it because you think you should.
• 17:42
  And you know, and like, and that can happen a lot with travel.
• 17:44
  Like you're like almost traveling for you forget that
• 17:48
  you're who you're traveling for and it's like you're traveling
• 17:50
  for you and what it's going to give you and the memories it's
• 17:52
  going to give you with your kids and how it's going to make you
• 17:54
  feel. And if you're just like rushing
• 17:57
  around, like all frantic, like, that's not the energetic input
• 18:01
  that you want to leave from that experience.
• 18:03
  So we're very much about just, you know, basing ourselves in a
• 18:06
  place for, you know, two weeks or more.
• 18:09
  That's such a good plan. Yeah, we've been like at at
• 18:13
  least one month, usually 2, two months in each of the countries
• 18:17
  that we've been to. And it's just so nice to just
• 18:20
  like, I feel like you really get under the skin of a place like
• 18:24
  once you're sitting at like, once you get involved in the
• 18:27
  day-to-day life of like the little neighborhood that you
• 18:29
  choose to live in. And like you get to know a few
• 18:31
  of the locals. And then, you know, they, they
• 18:34
  kind of get to know you. And then they'll tell, tell you
• 18:36
  about things that maybe you know, you wouldn't otherwise
• 18:39
  know about because they've seen you around like a few weeks at a
• 18:43
  time. And they're like, I'll tell them
• 18:45
  to go see this thing. And then we have these
• 18:47
  beautiful. Or they invite you to come have
• 18:49
  dinner with them or tea or whatever.
• 18:50
  And then you just have these really, yeah, beautiful
• 18:54
  experiences that you wouldn't have had if it was just like a,
• 18:56
  you know, 2 to 3, three day stop to check out of town.
• 18:59
  Yeah, I feel like my family travel was always very touristic
• 19:05
  in nature, and it was always about me and my three brothers
• 19:10
  going to every possible point that you should go to.
• 19:16
  And they say that, you know, in quotations.
• 19:18
  And it felt like at the end of the trip, while it was
• 19:20
  absolutely lovely and great to see all these places, it did
• 19:24
  feel like you didn't necessarily have a vacation.
• 19:29
  It just felt more like a trip. And when you got home, you're
• 19:32
  exhausted and you have amazing photos of places, but maybe only
• 19:35
  spent like a few minutes there, and then you're off to the next
• 19:39
  one. And one time, so my grandfather
• 19:44
  served in the Army and he was on Omaha Beach during the war.
• 19:49
  And so it was very important for my dad to bring us there.
• 19:52
  And it was so fantastic of an experience.
• 19:56
  And that's like my biggest memory of this trip that we did
• 20:00
  1 summer and we went to so many other places on this trip.
• 20:03
  But like that experience that had like a personal connection.
• 20:06
  It was off the beaten path. It was not where most people go.
• 20:10
  It just felt very significant. And it's something that.
• 20:15
  I try to keep in mind because it's so easy to fall into those
• 20:19
  that like tourist trap and and go to when you go to Rome, you
• 20:22
  go see all the things in Rome and you're not necessarily, you
• 20:25
  know, exploring the local neighborhood that you're rentals
• 20:28
  in, for example. So it sounds like the way that
• 20:32
  you're doing it, definitely it's a little more kid friendly, but
• 20:35
  also friendly for yourself, right?
• 20:37
  Because you want to, like you were saying, have those good
• 20:39
  feelings as well after that. And it's also a lot cheaper as
• 20:43
  well, which is a bonus. Like if you wanted, if you do
• 20:47
  want to extend your travels, because when you're like going
• 20:49
  to so many places and like you're paying for all the
• 20:52
  transport and all, and like tickets to all these sites and
• 20:55
  all, it adds up really quickly. But when you do it slower and
• 20:58
  choose to stay and if you, it makes it so much cheaper.
• 21:00
  And like then you can book like we use booking.com or Airbnb.
• 21:05
  And if you do like 30 or more day stays, you get like we've
• 21:09
  gone like 40 or 50% off the total.
• 21:12
  And it works out like, you know, so much less than renting at
• 21:15
  home in Australia where we're staying now in Vietnam.
• 21:19
  It's like we're staying this place we're staying in.
• 21:22
  I mean, it's not flashy or anything, but it's $18.00 a
• 21:25
  night and we're like in the middle of the the Old Town and
• 21:28
  it's. Beautiful.
• 21:30
  How do you find like in terms of kind of getting off the beaten
• 21:33
  tracks? I think this is one of the fears
• 21:35
  that I have around kind of, I've got again, two children with
• 21:38
  diverse needs, both neurodiverse children and, and obviously they
• 21:43
  do need a lot of kind of stability in terms of access to
• 21:46
  types of foods and whatever else.
• 21:48
  So I've got a lot in my head around, is it going to be easier
• 21:51
  for us to be in towns or cities, or am I going to be able to
• 21:54
  access food for them that they're going to be able to
• 21:57
  tolerate and enjoy? Obviously, depending on how
• 21:59
  remote it is, of course, it's going to get trickier.
• 22:02
  But like how when it comes to kind of going off the beaten
• 22:05
  track, it feels really scary to be like the thought of going to
• 22:07
  a city sounds horrendous and overwhelming.
• 22:10
  Little bits for sure, little moments to kind of experience
• 22:13
  certain places for sure, but not all the time.
• 22:15
  So I would want to be doing more of the real nature, like out in
• 22:20
  the real world, seeing the real people experiencing the real
• 22:22
  cultures. But then I know that obviously
• 22:23
  that does come with like, I don't know, transport challenges
• 22:27
  or how like, I don't know, just feeling a bit isolated or not
• 22:30
  feeling very safe or not knowing what is safe in that country or
• 22:34
  I don't know. Do you know what I mean?
• 22:35
  Like the, the fear of me and this is just, again, it's a myth
• 22:37
  thing. Is this this kind of like, oh
• 22:39
  God, it's just going to be so overwhelming.
• 22:41
  It's been like, I live in Godalming in the middle of the
• 22:45
  sorry countryside and it's just like, why am I so scared?
• 22:49
  Like that's a countryside place. I mean that to somebody who
• 22:51
  maybe comes from India coming to visit the UK would think, oh
• 22:54
  God, it'd be really nerve wracking to go and stay out in
• 22:55
  the countryside. I wouldn't know how to get
• 22:56
  around or where to go. And it's just like you just
• 22:58
  drive, grow up. Like it's not hard, grab a
• 23:01
  train, grab a bus. It's not the end of the world.
• 23:02
  But like for some reason it feels really scary.
• 23:04
  The thought of going to say, for example, going to India and
• 23:07
  trying to do that and live quite rurally or to explore rurally.
• 23:11
  It just sounds terrifying to me. And I know it's just a mental
• 23:13
  block that I've got towards it, but I think a lot of people
• 23:15
  would in that sort of like, I'd have to understand so much like,
• 23:19
  how do you understand the the way to get around and where to
• 23:22
  find food and like how to take care of yourself in a random new
• 23:25
  country again? And I guess the point is that it
• 23:27
  must just be a trial and error thing to some degree.
• 23:29
  You're just going to have to figure it out a little bit, do
• 23:31
  some research. But what's your experience of
• 23:33
  that? Have you ever been anywhere that
• 23:34
  has made you suddenly feel a bit out of your debt?
• 23:36
  Yeah. I mean, speaking into like your
• 23:39
  fears and worries, I think maybe it would be about like maybe
• 23:43
  dipping your toe into like, like India is a pretty wild place to
• 23:47
  go, like place to choose if you're feeling that way.
• 23:50
  Like it's pretty hectic there. Like I maybe wouldn't choose
• 23:53
  India, but you know, but then in saying that, like if you chose a
• 23:59
  really quiet place in India, like we went to a desert, a
• 24:03
  desert Fort Jaisama, which is right out like almost on the
• 24:07
  Pakistani border. And we stayed in the Fort for
• 24:10
  five weeks. We had a beautiful stay with its
• 24:14
  own kitchen. So like when because the kids
• 24:16
  did get a bit over Indian food or they were just like, oh, the
• 24:19
  spice or whatever, like we could make our own food.
• 24:21
  It was easy to shop for, you know, fruit and veg and
• 24:24
  groceries and things. So we like also having our own
• 24:27
  kitchens and Airbnb's if the kids are feeling a bit like over
• 24:31
  the food that's available. And again, like you have your
• 24:35
  own space to kind of like ground in.
• 24:36
  And, and we also like to find places where we can walk to like
• 24:39
  certain things so that we don't have to worry about transport
• 24:43
  too much and, and you just find your own groove, like, you know,
• 24:47
  for example, like thinking about where you live.
• 24:50
  We were just in Turkey for two months and that would be an
• 24:54
  awesome stepping stone to start because Turkey is a beautiful
• 24:58
  mix of Europe and a beautiful mix of the Middle East.
• 25:00
  And we rented an Airbnb that was right on this tiny little Cove
• 25:05
  down on the Mediterranean coast. We had our own kitchen.
• 25:08
  It was in the middle of olive Groves.
• 25:09
  It was a 5 minute walk down this dirt road to the beach.
• 25:12
  There weren't any restaurants in the town.
• 25:14
  So we literally just like we'd go to the corner shop and buy
• 25:17
  out, you know, bread and fruit and veg and groceries, you know,
• 25:20
  every couple of days. And we just spent the whole time
• 25:24
  nature. And then like the older couple
• 25:26
  that owned the olive Grove, the land that the Airbnb was on,
• 25:30
  like that had been in their family for 300 years.
• 25:32
  And they became like my kids surrogate grandparents.
• 25:35
  And they would take them for an hour or two each day and like
• 25:38
  cook with them and play with them or take them on a walk.
• 25:41
  And it was just, it was so beautiful.
• 25:44
  And there's pockets like that in so many places of the world that
• 25:48
  we've been to. And I think it is, you know,
• 25:51
  asking other world schooling families, like where they
• 25:54
  recommend staying longer term. And there's some awesome world
• 25:58
  schooling Facebook groups that you can join and like ask all
• 26:02
  those types of questions. But yeah, I think the key is you
• 26:08
  just got to like, ease yourself in and take, you know, a bit of
• 26:11
  time to like, you know, have that block of time to settle in
• 26:16
  and just like find a routine and a rhythm.
• 26:19
  I, I, I actually have a conscious family travel course
• 26:22
  where I talk about creating daily rhythms while you travel
• 26:25
  to create that nervous system regulation for yourself and your
• 26:28
  family. And like, you know, still taking
• 26:30
  care of yourself and your health and things and, you know,
• 26:33
  eating, eating good foods because I mean, you would know
• 26:37
  yourself with your kids, like eating bad foods for or foods
• 26:42
  they're not used to. It can throw everything off so
• 26:44
  you can. Yeah, they just couldn't eat
• 26:46
  them. Yeah, so there.
• 26:48
  Is that's my problem? Yeah.
• 26:51
  And you know their sleeps off and then all of the things.
• 26:53
  So yeah, there is like all like just little things like that
• 26:59
  that just make it so much easier to do.
• 27:01
  And to answer the other part of your question where we have felt
• 27:05
  a bit a bit off, the one place that we did feel was really hard
• 27:10
  to travel was Egypt. We spent a month there and it
• 27:14
  was just more so we'd come from like we'd spent eight months in
• 27:20
  or seven months in like Asia and India.
• 27:23
  And then we land and they're just so lovely with kids and
• 27:26
  they're so helpful. Like they go out of their way,
• 27:29
  like if you've got kids, if you're a family, they will go
• 27:32
  out of their way to help you and just so friendly and play with
• 27:35
  the kids in restaurants and just, it's so easy to travel.
• 27:38
  And then in Egypt, it was just like, we just had to have our
• 27:42
  guards up the whole time because they're just very all about the
• 27:46
  money. You don't know whether they're
• 27:48
  telling you the truth 99% of the time and just quite scammy.
• 27:52
  And we were just like, Oh my God, this is so hard to and just
• 27:55
  like making it really hard with the kids.
• 27:58
  And that was one where we were allowed.
• 28:01
  Do we just leave? Because it just felt so hard.
• 28:04
  But then we went to Luxor and we found again, a beautiful stay in
• 28:10
  a little village. Do we always try and go to the
• 28:13
  quieter places, like stay away from the touristy areas because
• 28:16
  it just makes everything so much harder?
• 28:19
  Yeah, we found, we just found a stay in a beautiful little
• 28:21
  village near the Valley of the Kings.
• 28:23
  And we stayed there for it was two or three weeks and just we
• 28:26
  had our own kitchen and we shopped in the local stores and
• 28:29
  bought fresh flatbread and we got to know a few of the locals
• 28:32
  and it was fine. We found our way.
• 28:34
  But yeah, that was one place where we just left.
• 28:37
  Oh, I don't know if I can do this.
• 28:40
  Can I ask a practical question? Yeah.
• 28:44
  Do you each have a suitcase? Like what are you bringing with
• 28:46
  you on these travels? Because I just know what it took
• 28:49
  for me to go from my house in England to visit my in laws here
• 28:53
  in Italy. And I I feel.
• 28:55
  Like it was a lot. So I don't know how you're
• 28:58
  actually managing what you're carrying with you.
• 29:00
  We've got two big suitcases. We did consider doing the
• 29:04
  backpacks, but my kids are still quite young and they'll carry
• 29:08
  them for like half an hour and then they'll be over it.
• 29:10
  So we've got two big suitcases and then two small carry on
• 29:14
  suitcases. And then my husband has a
• 29:16
  backpack that we sometimes take out on day trips.
• 29:19
  And yeah, we fit, we fit everything in there.
• 29:23
  And the kids love Wheeling the suitcases through the airports,
• 29:26
  which makes it super easy. And we haven't like struggled, I
• 29:30
  mean, like, I know we didn't bring a pram with us because
• 29:33
  it's just a nightmare Wheeling prams through Asia and things
• 29:36
  like there's no footpaths, there's potholes, all of the
• 29:38
  things. And we haven't really had that
• 29:40
  much of a problem like having the suitcases.
• 29:43
  It's just, you know, a lot of the places that we stay, there's
• 29:46
  sometimes stairs. So we just get our workout on
• 29:49
  and cut them up the stairs. But other than that, it's been,
• 29:53
  it's been good and we've been travelling from nine months now
• 29:57
  and just living out of that much.
• 29:59
  We have bought like a few artefacts and things along the
• 30:03
  way that we've kind of sent a package home carry that.
• 30:08
  But we don't do too much shopping or anything.
• 30:10
  We're just trying to, again, keep it super basic and on
• 30:13
  budget. So I was thinking, I was
• 30:15
  actually saying this to my husband the other day actually
• 30:17
  around kind of the the types of things you'd end up carrying
• 30:20
  with you such. And like realistically, if
• 30:22
  you're travelling, you need your clothes, probably need a laptop.
• 30:26
  Like the ability to, obviously if you're working remotely on a
• 30:28
  computer, you're going to need a computer, maybe kind of a Wi-Fi
• 30:31
  dongle or something like that, toiletries.
• 30:33
  But then you can obviously pick more up as you go along.
• 30:35
  Like realistically, in order to survive, you don't need an awful
• 30:39
  lot of things. You just need, you need
• 30:42
  obviously somewhere to be access to water, you know, doing other
• 30:45
  things, but you don't need to take a lot with you.
• 30:48
  It's more just a case of, yeah, you just need to tap your
• 30:51
  clothes, you wash them, you pick up fresh toiletries when you
• 30:53
  need them. And as like in terms of like, I
• 30:55
  think sometimes people worry about kind of actually the
• 30:57
  education side of it. So kind of maybe bring it around
• 30:59
  to that as well. It's kind of a good segue on to
• 31:00
  that. It's kind of the concept of
• 31:03
  like, I don't know, people obviously think books and stuff
• 31:06
  and like resources to make stuff or build stuff or crafts,
• 31:09
  whatever. And it's just like, I guess the
• 31:11
  reality is that if you, you don't need a sandpit because
• 31:14
  you've got a beach, you don't need a water tray because you
• 31:17
  have access to rivers and lakes and streams and whatever else.
• 31:20
  You don't need crafting materials because they're
• 31:22
  playing with leaves and sticks and random stuff that they're
• 31:25
  like playing with on whatever beach you're on right now.
• 31:27
  Or like whatever the case may be, like there's, there's or you
• 31:29
  can get access to things temporarily for a few things you
• 31:32
  want to make just to have some fun at a museum you go to or
• 31:35
  some yeah, playing with other kids, whatever in that in that
• 31:38
  region. I guess the reality is that
• 31:40
  actually stuff wise, you must not need to really have much
• 31:45
  with you. And I say like, love the idea of
• 31:47
  like if you collect something or if you do something that you
• 31:48
  want to keep, you just send it home and enjoy it later.
• 31:52
  That's a great idea. I think just don't carry it all
• 31:54
  with you. But but yeah, I'm assuming
• 31:55
  that's that's the case. Is there anything else that you
• 31:57
  would add to that list of things that you would have as
• 31:59
  essentials that you have to have with you that is just a good
• 32:01
  idea to have with you? I mean, we do like we've got
• 32:06
  like a little holistic health kick.
• 32:08
  So we, we kind of more lean towards like natural remedies
• 32:11
  and stuff. Like that's the only other thing
• 32:13
  because sometimes it can be hard like with language differences
• 32:17
  to find like, you know, activated charcoal or colloidal
• 32:20
  silver or Castor oil and things like that.
• 32:22
  So we do carry a few key things like that.
• 32:24
  But really, like the more we travel, you know, we realize how
• 32:29
  like we, we're travelling with too much at the moment, like we
• 32:32
  could travel with so less. And I'm excited to like, you
• 32:36
  know, eventually minimize it down even more.
• 32:38
  And like in regards to like the kids stuff, I mean, I kind of
• 32:43
  said to you when you invited me onto this podcast, like we're
• 32:46
  very radical, you know, unschoolers, what our kids just
• 32:51
  learn through living and we just honest, like they just love art.
• 32:55
  So we always, we just pick up like we just got this the other
• 32:59
  day in Thailand, like a plain page book.
• 33:02
  And they will just draw pictures.
• 33:03
  Like my son at the moment is like drawing pictures of all the
• 33:06
  Vietnamese food, like the Bon Mei and the foes and everything.
• 33:08
  He's like, I'm going to create a coloring book of Vietnamese
• 33:11
  food. So that's what he's drawing at
• 33:12
  the moment. And and you know, then we just
• 33:15
  pick up colored pencils and then we have Lego.
• 33:17
  That's one toy we didn't start out traveling with.
• 33:20
  And then my kids would just like Lego, Lego, Lego, we want Lego.
• 33:23
  So we ended up buying some and we do trouble with that.
• 33:25
  And honestly, it keeps them like entertained for hours.
• 33:28
  Like just the classic ones where they create their own shapes and
• 33:31
  things, little vehicles and stuff.
• 33:34
  They love that. And then every now and then we
• 33:37
  might grab an activity book that's like a, you know, math or
• 33:42
  spelling or reading one if we see it.
• 33:45
  And like they sometimes ask to do that, but like we never like,
• 33:49
  OK, it's activity book time or anything like that.
• 33:51
  We'd literally they just learn through living life and like you
• 33:57
  saying how they just pick up things to play with.
• 33:59
  We would literally just walk down this street an hour ago
• 34:02
  where there's all these like buttons and zips and like, it's
• 34:04
  like a haberdashery street or whatever.
• 34:08
  And like they were like walking along the street and they're
• 34:10
  like picking up all these buttons and pins and all these
• 34:13
  things. And they like came home like
• 34:15
  that Mom, look what we got to play with.
• 34:17
  And they were like sitting here, like, I don't know what they
• 34:20
  were doing with it. But like, they just do that
• 34:22
  everywhere we go. And they will just have like
• 34:24
  pockets of all these random and like people will give them
• 34:27
  little toys and stuff on the street or you know, it's they
• 34:31
  just so. And like in India when we were
• 34:34
  in that, that Fort, it was a kite festival.
• 34:38
  And like all the kids are really into the flying kites and they
• 34:41
  have like the glass string where they like cut each others kites
• 34:44
  out of the sky and stuff. And so my kids were like kite
• 34:48
  Central. And because they cut them all
• 34:50
  out of the sky, they're all like floating down on the streets and
• 34:53
  stuff. And so my kids would pick up the
• 34:54
  kites and we'd tie new kite string on it.
• 34:57
  And then the Indian kids were teaching them how to fly them.
• 34:59
  And like, then they became obsessed with kites.
• 35:02
  And like, all the drawings were about kites and everything.
• 35:04
  So it's just like wherever we go, they're just like soaking up
• 35:07
  the little pieces that they're interested in and like learning
• 35:11
  about that because that's what excites them.
• 35:14
  And it's just so cool to watch them just be completely in the
• 35:18
  moment like that and just find or in like everyday life.
• 35:23
  Yeah, it sounds so idyllic, doesn't it?
• 35:25
  Like I, I think that's the thing.
• 35:27
  I find myself listening to you being like, oh, it just sounds
• 35:29
  amazing. Like I just think that'd be just
• 35:31
  so awesome for them to just have these spontaneous like I keep
• 35:34
  for friends because spontaneous curiosity at the minute that I
• 35:36
  think I know that I need constant inspiration in my life.
• 35:40
  I need things to interest me and my children and home educating
• 35:44
  have really super helped me to reawaken that curiosity and to
• 35:47
  get excited about learning new things again and actually taking
• 35:50
  the time to just enjoy learning about stuff like for the sake of
• 35:52
  it. And we say all the time that
• 35:54
  actually a lot of the learning that we do as children, we think
• 35:58
  that it's so important for them to sit and focus and learn all
• 36:01
  these specific things to have these careers or whatever later
• 36:03
  and to be productive or whatever in their world.
• 36:06
  But actually, I think the truth of the matter is that a lot of
• 36:08
  the learning that we have, that we that we should be doing and
• 36:12
  that we actually get get benefit from is the ability to simply
• 36:17
  actively have a curious nature. Because I think so much of that
• 36:21
  curiosity, like when you're just being told what you're learning
• 36:24
  about now and this is just what the curriculum says.
• 36:26
  And no, we can't answer that question right now because we're
• 36:29
  focused on this and stop distracting the teacher because
• 36:31
  we need to get on with this. We need to get it done.
• 36:34
  It kills curiosity. I'm sorry, but it just does.
• 36:37
  And it stops children from having that spontaneity.
• 36:40
  And actually, if they're able to follow the threads of curiosity
• 36:44
  around subjects that they're interested in, like my, my 5
• 36:47
  year old, great example, sat having dinner on our deck the
• 36:49
  other day, looking up at the clouds going that's clouds super
• 36:53
  fast. And I was like, is it closer to
• 36:55
  us or further away than the other clouds?
• 36:57
  And she's like closer to us. And I was like, oh, that's
• 36:59
  interesting. I said, why do you think it's
• 37:01
  going faster? And she was like, maybe it just
• 37:04
  seems like it's going faster because it's closer.
• 37:05
  And I was just like, probably, yes.
• 37:08
  And it got into like conversations about air pressure
• 37:10
  and the wind and how it's really windy today.
• 37:12
  And so lower clouds are probably being affected by that wind,
• 37:14
  whereas the higher clouds might have a different like air
• 37:18
  movement, etcetera, etcetera. I'm like 5 years old and like is
• 37:21
  contemplating that level of scientific understanding.
• 37:25
  I think my son, about the same age, was having a conversation
• 37:28
  with an X747 pilot museum near us and the guy was giving him
• 37:32
  scenarios. He's just having a bit of fun
• 37:33
  initially just giving him a scenario of what's happening
• 37:35
  with the plane and what's going to happen.
• 37:36
  And he was literally answering his questions every time with
• 37:39
  the correct answer. And the guy spent 45 minutes
• 37:41
  with him in the end just having a great chat come with him and
• 37:44
  got to the end like shook his hand, went, you're going to make
• 37:46
  a fantastic pilot one day. My son turned around and went,
• 37:49
  no, I think I want to be a farmer.
• 37:51
  The guy was mortified. He was just like, what?
• 37:55
  You would make an amazing partner.
• 37:56
  You got a complete understanding of how planes work and like what
• 38:00
  would happen. Like you were just so switched
• 38:01
  on and he was like, he looked horrified.
• 38:03
  He just like, okay, I'm gonna go get coffee.
• 38:06
  Genuinely disappointed right now and how?
• 38:08
  How cool is it that our kids get to teach us that they're like
• 38:12
  learning about things just because we're interested in it
• 38:15
  and we're curious in it, not because it has to lead
• 38:17
  somewhere, the pressure leading somewhere.
• 38:19
  And also like, you know, when you think about like you're
• 38:22
  saying back to school, like in all the things that you're
• 38:24
  forced to learn. And that was really important
• 38:27
  and you had to do this for a test.
• 38:29
  I, I don't remember hardly any of it because I didn't care
• 38:32
  about it. I was just doing it to
• 38:34
  regurgitate it. And it's like, what what was the
• 38:36
  point of spending all that time to know that I can regurgitate?
• 38:40
  Like what? Like I, I look around like when
• 38:44
  I say we're on school, as I mean, myself and my husband are
• 38:46
  unschooling. My kids don't need to be on
• 38:48
  school because they've never been to school because they just
• 38:51
  like just watching them be curious in life.
• 38:53
  Like we were waiting rice paper rolls and my son's like, how do
• 38:57
  they make rice paper out of rice?
• 38:59
  And I'm like, why have I never thought to ask that?
• 39:03
  It's like I was told to just shut my brain down and just be
• 39:07
  like, it is what it is. You don't ask questions.
• 39:09
  Yeah, yes. And you don't try and
• 39:11
  understand. You just got to wait for someone
• 39:13
  to tell you what's important or what you need to know.
• 39:16
  And it's like just seeing their brains work in that completely
• 39:19
  different way. It's like feels so like almost
• 39:22
  like you know, you're learning again and you're seeing the
• 39:24
  world through new eyes and you're again it's.
• 39:27
  Yeah, it's, I think what what makes me frustrated with that
• 39:30
  though, in the world that we live in is that we we don't
• 39:32
  value it as highly. Like people are so wary of
• 39:35
  unschooling and especially kind of real radical unschooling
• 39:38
  where you really do just allow them to get to everything on
• 39:40
  their own normally. And it's they're really, really
• 39:42
  wary of it. And I think what's really
• 39:43
  annoying about that is that they don't see that that regurgitated
• 39:47
  like lack of curiosity leads to a lack of innovation.
• 39:51
  Like we are living in a chronic situation right now.
• 39:53
  This planet has got so many major problems created by human
• 39:57
  beings who have been schooled, frankly.
• 40:00
  And it really seriously need that like complete overhaul.
• 40:04
  Like outside the box thinking that curiosity that noticing
• 40:08
  that, asking questions that just like noticing that, wondering
• 40:12
  about it, thinking how has somebody created the thing that
• 40:14
  makes that? Like, how did they even invent
• 40:16
  that? Where did that even come from?
• 40:17
  Why did they need it in the first place?
• 40:18
  It's like all of these questions, like I said, I was
• 40:21
  explaining to my son brief briefly recently about how you
• 40:24
  have these moments sometimes where you realise that someone
• 40:27
  invented a solution to a problem, but by doing that they
• 40:31
  created another problem. They didn't realise that at the
• 40:33
  time, but they did and therefore somebody else had to invent a
• 40:37
  solution to that. So people invented smartphones
• 40:40
  because we thought it would be great to have access to a
• 40:42
  computer in our hands. We can get so much information
• 40:44
  instantly, but it's created a massive deficit in
• 40:46
  concentration. People get distracted, they
• 40:48
  waste loads of time. Whatever is actually ruining our
• 40:51
  sleep, it's doing all the things.
• 40:52
  So someone develops blue light filters and blue light glasses.
• 40:55
  They develop like apps that can turn your phone back into a
• 40:57
  brick so that you can't use it very often.
• 40:59
  They invent boxes so you can put it in so that we can put a
• 41:01
  password on it that you don't know and somebody else has got
• 41:03
  to get out for you later. Like, Oh my goodness.
• 41:05
  Like we literally just are constantly creating solutions
• 41:09
  that turn out to be problems and we have completely forgotten in
• 41:11
  the space of like a few 100 years, our entire human roots.
• 41:16
  Like we seem to have completely forgotten that we are literally
• 41:19
  an animal on this planet. We need things to survive, and
• 41:23
  if we don't take care of those things, then we will not
• 41:26
  survive. Like, I don't really understand
• 41:27
  how we're getting into this situation, but actually what we
• 41:29
  need are more children who are living in the world, seeing as
• 41:33
  much of it as possible, knowing about what there is to be going
• 41:37
  on. Like, what is the actual issue
• 41:38
  here? What is really happening?
• 41:41
  What solutions have people come up with that have turned into
• 41:43
  problems? And how can we maybe take some
• 41:46
  stuff back a step? How do we reverse some of it?
• 41:48
  How do we fix it, put it back to how it should be?
• 41:51
  And I think these kids are going to have like all of these
• 41:55
  moments where they're experiencing stuff and trying
• 41:57
  stuff and just doing it because they want to means that when
• 42:00
  they are facing big adult problems.
• 42:03
  Whereas I'm stuck here going, oh, how do you even get around?
• 42:06
  Oh, I don't even know the first thing about doing that.
• 42:07
  I don't even know what the visas would be.
• 42:09
  I don't know where it's going to be legal for me to work.
• 42:10
  I don't know all this. Oh, it's too much effort.
• 42:13
  I can't be bothered to think through it all.
• 42:14
  I'm just going to get stuck in this life.
• 42:16
  I'm going to be sitting here at 8 years old being like, oh, wish
• 42:18
  I'd just done it. I'm so mad at myself for not
• 42:21
  doing it. But back then I was too scared
• 42:23
  and it's too hard because I didn't know how to be curious
• 42:27
  and simply just go find the information.
• 42:29
  The information is there. We can ask the questions, we can
• 42:31
  do the research, we can make it happen.
• 42:33
  And I think what's really beautiful about what home Med
• 42:35
  has done for me is it has reminded me that I can that as
• 42:38
  much as it scares me and my husband's forever, like, oh God,
• 42:42
  we're back on another midlife crisis conversation again.
• 42:45
  Like he's he's very much the the routines stay in your rut, do
• 42:50
  your thing kind of like I just I'll just get up, I'll just get
• 42:53
  to work. I'll just make money.
• 42:54
  I'll come home and make dinner like it's fine.
• 42:55
  We just do the things He's I think he's autistic, but he
• 42:59
  himself. He's just very much like I need
• 43:01
  my routine. I just my day just goes how it
• 43:03
  goes. I don't really need to deviate
• 43:05
  from it. And the rest of us are so like,
• 43:08
  Nope, boring and it drives him absolutely nuts.
• 43:11
  So I think that there's definitely that kind of like I
• 43:15
  can understand how some people can look at this and think you
• 43:17
  guys are crazy, like just settle down, just stay in one place,
• 43:20
  get on with your life, be responsible.
• 43:22
  But actually he is slowly coming round to the idea that actually
• 43:26
  he's not happy, not truly that he's bored, that we all get
• 43:30
  restless, that actually he's working really hard to make the
• 43:33
  money for us to live the freedom and the lifestyle.
• 43:36
  I mean, I was talking about going to Chiapas next year at
• 43:39
  the World Schooling Hub that's there for it's like for two
• 43:41
  months and you go and join a group of 10 hunt schooling
• 43:43
  families and you just have a really great time.
• 43:46
  And it sounds, it sounds like to me a sort of softer way to land
• 43:48
  into a, it's a slightly chaotic kind of thing.
• 43:51
  But to have a structure that someone else has kind of planned
• 43:54
  some fun day trips and some evening community things and
• 43:56
  you've got other people that you can talk to, then you just feel
• 43:59
  a little bit safer. And so we can do the kind of
• 44:01
  slightly riskier place, but with someone who's knows what they're
• 44:05
  doing, they've lived there for many, many years, so they really
• 44:08
  know the area well. And it just makes me feel a bit
• 44:10
  more relaxed. And so it's like, OK, that
• 44:12
  sounds great. And he's like, I can't take two
• 44:15
  solid months off work though. And I was like, well, no, but I
• 44:17
  could go with the kids. And he's like without me and I
• 44:21
  was like, then you've got to figure something out, haven't
• 44:23
  you? Like what do you want from me?
• 44:25
  So kind of compromise. He might come for a month and
• 44:27
  then I'll stay on for the second month and he'll go home or
• 44:29
  whatever it might be. But like, I think that we'll
• 44:31
  experience a couple of things like that and he'll start to be
• 44:34
  like, OK, let's let's figure out how we're doing this and let's
• 44:36
  go. But I think he was saying before
• 44:39
  we got on the call, and I obviously want to give you a
• 44:40
  chance to talk to people about it because it's such a fantastic
• 44:43
  tool. I think as your family centred
• 44:44
  freedom plans this kind of and you've obviously been working on
• 44:48
  something that helps people to start to think about this
• 44:49
  because he doesn't want to be stuck.
• 44:52
  I don't think really. I mean, he kind of does.
• 44:54
  He kind of doesn't like to have that really stable income, to
• 44:56
  have a house, to have the money there for you to take care of
• 44:59
  you when you're old and, like, don't want to leave the house
• 45:02
  anyway. I honestly don't even know why
• 45:03
  you'd save money for that part of your life at all.
• 45:05
  It's going to be boring anyway. Let's just let it get on with
• 45:09
  it. But ultimately, I want to live
• 45:11
  my life now. Like, we're healthy, we're
• 45:13
  young. We should be doing it.
• 45:13
  We should be out there having a great time, really making the
• 45:16
  most of this wonderful life we've been given.
• 45:17
  So I think he wants to do it, but I know he's scared.
• 45:20
  And obviously I think a lot of families would be coming into
• 45:22
  this kind of conversation thinking, yeah, but how on earth
• 45:25
  are we going to make enough money to get on with it?
• 45:27
  How are we going to create that lifestyle?
• 45:29
  So I'd love to give you a chance to let you talk to about that
• 45:31
  now because it's it's really, really important.
• 45:34
  It's a really vital conversation.
• 45:36
  Yeah. Well, I mean, since I've been
• 45:38
  sharing our travels, like the biggest question that I get from
• 45:43
  people or assumption is like, Oh yeah, that's nice for you, but
• 45:46
  like you obviously have a lot of savings or you have a trust fund
• 45:49
  or you're like come from money or something.
• 45:52
  Like not everyone can do that. And I, I can't, and I really
• 45:58
  like my motivation for sharing our travels and our way of life
• 46:01
  online is I just want other families to see like if they
• 46:04
  want this lifestyle too. It is totally possible.
• 46:07
  It's just about thinking outside the box and thinking creatively
• 46:11
  and realizing like we actually don't need as much as we think
• 46:14
  we do. And, you know, a lot of the
• 46:17
  stories or assumptions or things that we think about living
• 46:22
  certain kinds of lifestyles or travelling and stuff, like a lot
• 46:25
  of it, you know, isn't true. And like it's just about diving,
• 46:31
  diving in and figuring things out along the way.
• 46:33
  And and you know, and like I said, thinking creatively.
• 46:36
  And yeah, my family centered freedom plan, I created that in
• 46:40
  response to like all of those questions.
• 46:42
  And it's just helping I break down exactly how we've done it.
• 46:47
  Like how we started off with a couple of income streams that
• 46:50
  allowed us the location independence, and then how since
• 46:53
  we've been traveling, we've been adding, slowly adding in a few
• 46:56
  others and slowly growing them. Like we're not rich or anything,
• 47:01
  not what a lot of people consider rich, but like we're,
• 47:03
  we're wealthy in what matters most to us.
• 47:05
  And that is being able to, you know, spend time together and
• 47:09
  have the freedom of choice to do that wherever we want to in the
• 47:12
  world. And that is the vision that we
• 47:14
  always had for our family. And it's just so beautiful to
• 47:16
  now be living at. And I really want that for
• 47:20
  anyone else who wants to and not necessarily our version of that,
• 47:24
  you know, it gets to be your version of that.
• 47:26
  So whether it's like, you know, you would love to have three
• 47:30
  months a year where you could go, you know, choose a region in
• 47:34
  the world and be like, let's do those three countries and just
• 47:36
  spend that time together as a family.
• 47:38
  And the rest of the year, you know, you might work a nine to
• 47:41
  five, but then you've also got, like you were saying, thinking
• 47:44
  about putting like an Airbnb or like, you know, creating digital
• 47:47
  products around things that you, that you're passionate about or
• 47:51
  have knowledge in or, you know, save other people time, energy
• 47:54
  and money. Or, you know, there's.
• 47:56
  So I guess the beauty of, you know, how online everything is
• 48:00
  now, like you can create an income in so many ways online.
• 48:04
  And so I go into like over 20 different ways you can and like
• 48:10
  where to start with them and my personal experiences with them
• 48:14
  and, and help like families choose like 2:00 to 3:00 to
• 48:18
  start with. And then also just like a vision
• 48:21
  of like what they want their family life to look like.
• 48:25
  You know, maybe it is just cutting back on a couple days of
• 48:29
  full time work weeks so you can go away for longer weekends or,
• 48:32
  you know, having those longer times off together.
• 48:34
  Or, you know, maybe it is eventually like spending a year
• 48:38
  overseas travelling and thinking creatively about like, OK, how
• 48:41
  can we live on less and do we actually really need everything
• 48:46
  that we have around us? Or are we just living in other
• 48:50
  people's expectations of us or society's expectations of what
• 48:53
  we should have? Like is, is this actually making
• 48:58
  us happy? Is this the life we want?
• 49:00
  Are we, are we just a slave to like the expectations of what
• 49:03
  our family and friends think we should have at this point?
• 49:06
  Or what our other, what our family and friends have?
• 49:08
  So we think we should have the same.
• 49:11
  And, and coming back to like, what do you, what do you
• 49:13
  actually want to live? Like?
• 49:15
  What do you want to do with your life?
• 49:16
  Because this and, and again, like our kids are young for such
• 49:20
  a short period of time. Like why are we sending them off
• 49:24
  to spend most of their time with strangers?
• 49:26
  Like they only need us this much for such a short period of time?
• 49:30
  Like why not just make some sacrifices and spend as much
• 49:33
  time with them while you can? Yeah, I think about that a lot
• 49:37
  actually, that ultimately when they they're grown and they've
• 49:42
  they've flown the nest, they've off live in their exciting
• 49:44
  amazing lives that I hope that go off to lead that you find
• 49:46
  yourself thinking, well, I can always, I'll have loads of time
• 49:49
  then. And so having a business and
• 49:51
  travelling like if we wanted to carry on travelling even like if
• 49:53
  they want to go off and do their own adventures now or they want
• 49:55
  to settle down somewhere and start doing something.
• 49:56
  If we wanted to carry on travelling then I'd have so much
• 49:58
  time. Like it'd be, it'd be easy to
• 50:00
  make loads of extra cash when I work part time now if I sort of
• 50:04
  virtual assistant business and that that makes me my income.
• 50:07
  And then I do all various other things.
• 50:08
  Like this is a passion thing, which is obviously starting to
• 50:10
  make progress and come along now anyway.
• 50:13
  But it's ultimately like there are so many different ways to
• 50:15
  make money in this world now. And that's part of this kind of
• 50:19
  open minded curiosity to write that kind of like having ideas,
• 50:22
  recognizing that you could start something new, that you just
• 50:26
  have to have some faith in yourself that you could do it,
• 50:28
  that it might be hard. Yes, it'd be a bit tricky.
• 50:30
  You have to learn about some new stuff, but you can learn.
• 50:33
  Like we want to teach our kids that they can learn at any time
• 50:35
  in their lives. So why, why can't we start
• 50:38
  recognizing that we can do the same?
• 50:40
  And that it's, it is hard and sometimes that does seem like a
• 50:42
  massive block, but it is possible with the right
• 50:46
  motivation. And I think that so many of us
• 50:48
  are reaching the point now, especially since COVID and the
• 50:51
  way the cost of living has got up so drastically, that
• 50:55
  ultimately we're, we're now living like where we were
• 50:58
  comfortable and had probably about £1500 a month spare to pay
• 51:02
  for like home Ed and days out and to be able to eat out the
• 51:06
  pub once in a blue moon. Now we have nothing.
• 51:09
  Like it's literally nothing in the space of two or three years.
• 51:12
  And so it's, it's literally gone from being easeful to hard with
• 51:17
  nothing else, like with less, like way less experience.
• 51:20
  So like we do much less now. And it's such a shame.
• 51:24
  And I think it's, it's causing a lot of families to sit there and
• 51:26
  go, why are we working crazy hours like with our kids in
• 51:31
  school or even home educating? Like you're, you're working a
• 51:34
  lot of hours to pay for a house that's filled with stuff that
• 51:38
  keeps breaking and needing replacing, that keeps needing to
• 51:41
  be decorated, which keeps needing new bits done to the
• 51:43
  roof or something fixed on the boiler or the car needs a new
• 51:47
  tire. And now this needs new and new
• 51:49
  this. And I never have any spare cash
• 51:51
  for joy. It is all fixing problems with
• 51:55
  the stuff that I own and I'm so over it.
• 51:58
  I really AM. And I think a lot of people are
• 52:00
  just this. It feels so it's like a massive
• 52:02
  anchor hanging on your little neck that you can't stop working
• 52:06
  and you can't stop fighting for it all because this is what like
• 52:09
  you need to survive and your family needs a roof over its
• 52:11
  head. And this is all the messaging
• 52:13
  that we get. And it's like, of course, they
• 52:15
  need to be safe and fed and watered, but they don't
• 52:19
  necessarily need one set roof for it to be OK.
• 52:23
  And they certainly don't need one set environment.
• 52:25
  And they certainly don't need all of the resources to have a
• 52:28
  good education. And they certainly don't need
• 52:31
  like all these things that you don't need all these things.
• 52:33
  You can choose them if they work for you and they're good for
• 52:36
  your family and they help you or whatever, but they're not
• 52:38
  essential. And I think we have to start
• 52:41
  remembering that there are only a few things that human beings
• 52:43
  need that are essential, and the rest of it is just what we're
• 52:47
  told to want. And if we don't really want it,
• 52:52
  then we're fools to keep chasing it because it's not ours to.
• 52:56
  Like, why? Why do we want it?
• 52:57
  We don't want it. So why are we asking for it?
• 52:59
  Why are we fighting for it? It's like it's OK to be risky.
• 53:02
  It's OK to take a step in another direction.
• 53:04
  I mean, I mentioned to my dad about going, well, schooling
• 53:06
  and, and doing up a, a caravan or a bus or something.
• 53:09
  And there was a moment in his life where he had no choice but
• 53:12
  to live in a caravan. There was a static caravan in a
• 53:15
  place that was in the UK. So in the winter it was very
• 53:18
  cold. And for him, in his head that
• 53:22
  was not a good time in his life because he was working really
• 53:25
  hard. He was going home on his own to
• 53:27
  a caravan that was cold and empty and it was a miserable
• 53:32
  existence for him. And so that for him is what he
• 53:35
  gets in his head when I say about kind of like travelling on
• 53:37
  the road. And so he's really negative
• 53:39
  about it. And I have to really be mindful
• 53:41
  that my upbringing, I've had him telling me that story.
• 53:43
  I've had him bring it up a number of times.
• 53:45
  I've had him reinforce to me how important it is to have my own
• 53:48
  home and to have a stable place to be that's warm and whatever
• 53:51
  else, to have a good job. So I've got plenty of money in
• 53:54
  the bank, like I've had him with the experiences he's had,
• 53:58
  emphasizing to me the importance of the experiences that I have
• 54:00
  as an adult. And it's up to me to recognize
• 54:04
  that his limiting beliefs based around his experiences and the
• 54:08
  experiences that people like gave to him like, so all of the
• 54:11
  influences he has are not mine to carry.
• 54:14
  If I can see another way that I know is safe and suitable for
• 54:18
  our family that is not going to leave us miserable, then I
• 54:22
  should definitely try it. And I think that ultimately for
• 54:24
  us, dipping our toes in, trying a couple of longer trips,
• 54:28
  getting the house ready to rent or whatever we need to do with
• 54:30
  it, getting to that point over the next few years is 100% the
• 54:33
  way we should be doing it. To just reassure ourselves that
• 54:37
  the kids will be OK, it won't be too dysregulating, that we can
• 54:40
  find a good solid way of getting another income for my husband to
• 54:42
  have so we can top up mine. But ultimately, it is doable.
• 54:48
  It just takes a little bit of creativity and thought.
• 54:50
  And ultimately, if it matters to us, you have got to do it
• 54:55
  because it's, there's no point sitting there with a dream in
• 54:57
  your hands wishing you could and never really fighting for it.
• 55:02
  I think that's such a shame. And I think so many of us will
• 55:04
  sit there thinking, well, it's, it still feels too impossible.
• 55:06
  And maybe maybe in your situation, it's, it's going to
• 55:09
  feel too hard for a long time, but doesn't mean it's never
• 55:11
  going to happen. Like take some steps, I guess is
• 55:14
  that's what your kind of plan is about, isn't it kind of helping
• 55:17
  people to build those like 6 months from now, a year from
• 55:20
  now, two years from now, Like what can you start to do and
• 55:23
  start to work towards that will get you into the right position
• 55:25
  at the right time to go and do whatever you want to do?
• 55:28
  And I think that's what I really loved about what you're
• 55:30
  explaining to us, that it was, it's kind of that opportunity
• 55:32
  for people to really think about it, break it down and to start
• 55:35
  to actually put some plans in place and have an actual goal
• 55:38
  and understanding so that it doesn't feel so scary.
• 55:41
  It doesn't feel so kind of like wishy washy.
• 55:44
  Yeah, because I think, you know, the time's going to pass anyway.
• 55:48
  Like the last thing you want to do is get, you know, a year from
• 55:51
  now and be like, I just wish I had a started or like, you know,
• 55:54
  three years from now, five years from now, Like, why not give it
• 55:58
  a go? Like, why not spend an hour or
• 55:59
  two hours a day like working towards creating the life that
• 56:03
  you want? Like we do, you know, a lot of
• 56:06
  us do have school trauma and we've been so conditioned to not
• 56:11
  think about the life that we want to live.
• 56:13
  We just go along the path that we're told to take because, you
• 56:16
  know, that's, that's what you're supposed to do to be a
• 56:18
  functioning member of society. And it's like it, it is really
• 56:22
  hard to think differently and feel safe in that because it, it
• 56:25
  does for a lot of us, it doesn't feel safe in our bodies to think
• 56:28
  differently and choose differently because they're
• 56:30
  like, you know, what if I'm rejected by my family and
• 56:34
  friends because I choose differently?
• 56:35
  What if they think I'm judging them, you know, And that's like
• 56:37
  a primal thing because we're so conditioned, like to be part of
• 56:41
  a tribe and to be accepted is to survive.
• 56:44
  So when you choose, it can feel so on.
• 56:46
  And I just want to like honor that and be like, you know, it
• 56:51
  is going to feel like a big journey for some people.
• 56:53
  And that's totally normal and totally OK.
• 56:56
  But the more you do just take those little steps and you're
• 57:00
  like, OK, I did it like I'm OK, like I'm learning a new thing or
• 57:04
  I'm trying this new thing or I'm, I'm considering different
• 57:07
  options for us. The more like then you like feel
• 57:09
  safer in that. And then you expand a little bit
• 57:11
  more and you expand a little bit more.
• 57:13
  And it's just, you're taking those baby steps and then you
• 57:15
  look back and you've taken this big quantum leap and you're
• 57:18
  like, wow, like 6 months ago I was like, no, that definitely
• 57:23
  couldn't be for us. And now here I am.
• 57:25
  And, you know, we're starting to look at options and we've
• 57:28
  started this or whatever it is. So yeah, I, I help people create
• 57:31
  that six months to five year plan and also talk about that,
• 57:34
  that deconditioning from, you know, allowing yourself to dream
• 57:38
  again and allowing to like, you know, to, to remember who you're
• 57:42
  living your life for. Because it's, it's not for
• 57:45
  everyone around you. It's not for what your parents
• 57:48
  expect of you or what your friends want you to do.
• 57:50
  It's for you like you don't want to get to the end of your life,
• 57:52
  like you said, and be like, man, I wish I just had the wish I had
• 57:56
  had the courage to live the life that I wanted to.
• 57:59
  I wish I had spent more time with the people that mattered
• 58:01
  the most. Like you get to choose, like
• 58:04
  today, like what you want to do. And it's just having that little
• 58:07
  bit of courage to take that first few steps.
• 58:10
  I agree. I think that's, yeah, it's just
• 58:13
  so, so vital, isn't it? And I think it's such a big part
• 58:15
  of mindset work is starting to recognise what your dreams are
• 58:18
  and what you want to do next and giving it permission to be there
• 58:23
  in your head. Because I think so many of us do
• 58:25
  feel very wrong for that. And I think one last thing to
• 58:27
  touch on the whole, like feeling unsafe and in the journey when
• 58:30
  you feel like everyone's going to abandon you and you're going
• 58:32
  to be so different is to remember that there are loads of
• 58:35
  people out there. And I guess I hope that just
• 58:37
  even just chatting to you today, you know, like I, I really feel
• 58:39
  very connected to everything you said.
• 58:42
  And ultimately that that means that me and you are truly part
• 58:45
  of the same tribe. We're part of the same group of
• 58:47
  people who think the same things, feel the same things.
• 58:49
  So there is safety in that. There is knowledge that there
• 58:51
  are lots of us out there who care about this and actually do
• 58:54
  believe in it, think it's brilliant.
• 58:56
  And so, yeah, some of the people in your life who've had the
• 58:58
  experiences and influences they've had, who have got their
• 59:00
  limiting beliefs will think it's nuts, will try and talk you out
• 59:04
  of it. I mean, when I first started
• 59:05
  home educating, so many people were like, Are you sure you
• 59:08
  haven't just had some sorts of stroke or something?
• 59:10
  What are you talking about? Especially as my son was quite
• 59:13
  high needs and they were like you.
• 59:16
  I don't know if you're going to cope like this is going to be
• 59:18
  really hard for you. And actually it's been
• 59:20
  wonderful. And as you said, that whole like
• 59:22
  quantum leap thing, I look back on me making the choice to home
• 59:26
  educate 4 years ago, looking back at it now being like, wow,
• 59:29
  look at you. You made the choice.
• 59:31
  He was scared out of your mind. And look at you now you're so
• 59:35
  relaxed, like you're so in your flow.
• 59:37
  Your kids are doing so well and you're now making the next major
• 59:41
  quantum leap. Like you're now looking at what
• 59:42
  the next big leap for families. And also like, what an
• 59:45
  inspiration are you to your people?
• 59:47
  You know your people and your sphere of influence like your
• 59:50
  family and friends that they saw you starting this this thing
• 59:52
  that they maybe doubted you doing and thought you were crazy
• 59:55
  for doing. And now look where you are now
• 59:57
  and look how beautiful your life is and look where it's leading.
• 1:00:00
  And you get to be their permission slip now.
• 1:00:02
  Like you get to show people there is another way and that is
• 1:00:04
  like you're changing lives by choosing to live your life for
• 1:00:09
  yourself. You know, and it gives it, it
• 1:00:11
  shows other people around you in your, like I said, your small
• 1:00:15
  circle of influence that oh, well, if she can do it like I
• 1:00:17
  know her, like maybe I can do it too.
• 1:00:20
  Like I'm, I don't like my life. I don't like how much we work.
• 1:00:23
  I want to spend more time with my kids.
• 1:00:25
  She's done it. I've seen her, you know, take
• 1:00:27
  those steps and then they're inspired by it.
• 1:00:29
  And then, yeah, because I mean, that's, that's all we have to
• 1:00:34
  do. And, and, and also like you said
• 1:00:36
  as well, you know, you may not feel like you have people around
• 1:00:41
  you and your immediate community that would support you or think
• 1:00:46
  like you do. And you might feel like really
• 1:00:49
  feel like you're going to be really alienated.
• 1:00:51
  But I've also seen that when you do start making those choices,
• 1:00:55
  people come out of the woodwork and be like, I've always thought
• 1:00:58
  about doing that. I've always, but I've never
• 1:01:00
  spoken about it because I, you know, would thought people would
• 1:01:03
  judge me. And you, you actually might find
• 1:01:05
  people in your immediate community that do actually think
• 1:01:08
  like you, but they've been hiding it because you've been
• 1:01:10
  hiding it, you know, And then also in our online space, like
• 1:01:15
  again, when I first became a parent, none of my friends had
• 1:01:18
  kids or anything. And we made some different
• 1:01:19
  choices in regards to our parenting.
• 1:01:21
  And I felt really isolated and alone.
• 1:01:23
  And I felt made some beautiful friendships online.
• 1:01:25
  I've made some of my best friends through connecting with
• 1:01:27
  people like this online that I've been met up with in person,
• 1:01:31
  you know, as we've, as we've traveled and things.
• 1:01:33
  And it's it's beauty like that is another incredible gift that
• 1:01:36
  we have about this online space as well.
• 1:01:39
  Yeah, no, that sounds amazing. So I want to wrap this up by
• 1:01:43
  asking you the the the obvious question, which is have you got
• 1:01:47
  a place that you've been that is a favorite?
• 1:01:49
  If you're going to tell someone to go start travelling, that's
• 1:01:52
  been just incredible. I mean, you did mention some
• 1:01:54
  places that you liked, but like, have you got a real favorite, a
• 1:01:56
  real place that you would love to just get back to you one day
• 1:02:00
  or you think people should go to?
• 1:02:02
  I could go back everywhere, but the two places that we've been
• 1:02:06
  to recently that I'm like, I will definitely go back there is
• 1:02:09
  Sri Lanka is so beautiful. Like particularly you talking
• 1:02:13
  about India, if you like the idea of India, but India is just
• 1:02:16
  like whoa, it's like it's full on place to travel with kids, go
• 1:02:20
  to Sri Lanka. Like it's this beautiful little
• 1:02:23
  island at the bottom of India. It's kind of got if people are
• 1:02:27
  familiar with Bali, like it's like Bali was 20 years ago.
• 1:02:30
  The people are so lovely. It's so easy to travel around.
• 1:02:33
  Like we rented A tuk tuk and travelled around like with our
• 1:02:38
  kids, like it was the best. And like, you know, it's not to
• 1:02:42
  develop. Like food's super easy, super
• 1:02:45
  cheap Tropic. It's just got everything.
• 1:02:48
  Like you just drive along the road.
• 1:02:49
  There's just waterfalls and monkeys and elephants and like
• 1:02:53
  it's incredible. So I'd say there would be a
• 1:02:56
  really easy place for people to start.
• 1:03:00
  But we also, yeah, just went to Turkey.
• 1:03:02
  And I was just in awe of how beautiful Turkey is.
• 1:03:06
  I mean, we only spent time on the, like, Mediterranean coast.
• 1:03:09
  But like, having been to Europe on the Mediterranean coast and
• 1:03:12
  how busy and built up and, you know, it is a bit more expensive
• 1:03:15
  to travel Europe, like, go to Turkey.
• 1:03:18
  It's so. And the people there are so
• 1:03:20
  lovely. Like, they went, they were just
• 1:03:23
  giving us, you know, oranges and mulberries and, like, lettuces
• 1:03:27
  from their garden. They just saw us walking along
• 1:03:28
  the road and they're, like, telling us to come in and give,
• 1:03:30
  giving our kids all this produce from their garden.
• 1:03:32
  And yeah, like I said, the couple were our surrogate
• 1:03:35
  grandparents. And like, yeah, it was just, it
• 1:03:38
  was amazing. So Turkey.
• 1:03:40
  'S. Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  OK, cool. Incredible.
• 1:03:44
  Thank you so much, Leonard. I really appreciate you coming
• 1:03:46
  on and chatting to us today. And good luck with the rest of
• 1:03:49
  your travels to keep us posted. Tell us what you're up to
• 1:03:51
  because I'll definitely be following what you're doing from
• 1:03:53
  now on and keeping in touch. But thank you so much.
• 1:03:56
  It's been really, really eye opening, really inspirational
• 1:03:59
  and it's definitely made me feel excited anyway.
• 1:04:02
  It's made me feel like this is genuinely real, that this can
• 1:04:04
  really happen. So that's a big gift to me.
• 1:04:07
  So thank you very much. It's.
• 1:04:09
  Been beautiful chatting. Thank you.
• 1:04:12
  Good luck. Take care all.
• 1:04:14
  Right, see you later. You've been listening to the Big
• 1:04:18
  Home Ed Conversations podcast. Thanks for tuning in.
• 1:04:22
  Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share with a
• 1:04:25
  friend. Follow us on Instagram and
• 1:04:28
  TikTok at Big Home Ed Podcast for updates.
• 1:04:32
  And we can't wait to see you next time where we talk about
• 1:04:34
  how we are using AI in our daily lives and in our home Ed Until
• 1:04:39
  next time, take care.