Latest / The Charity Changemakers Podcast / Season 3 | E11 Olivia Barker White on turning a gap year moment into a children's charity
Transcript
- Adam Stacey: I'm really pleased to welcome Olivia onto the Charity Changemakers podcast today. Thanks so much for ⁓ for joining us. Olivia: ⁓ thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. Adam Stacey: No. That's great. Brilliant. And ⁓ always like to give a guest opportunity, ⁓ in the first instance to ⁓ introduce yourself properly, to give us, yeah, sort of a one minute who you are and ⁓ and what you do. Olivia: So my name is Olivia Barker White. I am co-founder and chief executive of Kids Co Kampala, which is an international children's charity. I'm also a trustee of the Small International Development Charities Network, SidCon for short, and I also sit on the UK Small Charities Advisory Panel, which is hosted by the NCBO. So I'm passionate about small charities, but just about the charity sector in general. Adam Stacey: There's gonna be lots ⁓ lots for us to unpick from your experience ⁓ through through the conversation. But before we before we get to the big stuff, we have these quick fire questions where we get to ⁓ know our guests a little bit better. So ⁓ what does a good weekend or a day off, however regularly they come round ⁓ for you, what what what do they look like? Olivia: ⁓ well, to be honest, they're quite few and far between. So obviously being a charity chief exec, but also ⁓ I'm a single mum to three young children. So to be honest, day off work often looks like ⁓ yeah, wrangling kids at the playground or something like that. But ⁓ if I get a moment to myself, which is not very often, ⁓ just prioritising catching up with friends or yeah, doing something restful. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and indeed, like I say, with ⁓ alongside the day job, three ⁓ three young children, it's ⁓ yeah, there's a lot yeah, there's a lot lot lot going on. ⁓ so I love this question now. ⁓ I think I've grow I've grown into this question as the as the seasons ⁓ move moved on and heard some really lovely, lovely answers. But what's something small ⁓ that brings you a disproportionate amount of ⁓ of joy? Olivia: I love this question. ⁓ and yeah I Recently, I've been trying to be really intentional about noticing those small moments of joy. I've just quite recently been through a difficult personal situation, and I've I've had a little bit of time off work because of that. And sort of coming out of that, I've been really intentional about just noticing those small things that spark joy. So literally walking past some flowers and they smell lovely, or hearing a bird tweeting, you know, sitting down with a really good book. book or a really good cup of coffee. It's just, you know, being really intentional about noticing those little things that bring joy has been been really, really helpful. And so it's a lovely question. I love that. Adam Stacey: Yeah, that's right indeed. In fact, we did a ⁓ we had a webinar ⁓ a few weeks ago on for for for charity leaders about re refueling about how to re ha one of the ways to refuel yourself. We had a coach on there, Tim. ⁓ one of the things he talked about was actually, you know, when you're going out for a walk or you're going out and you're doing something, actually j r remove the headphones and just just be aware of things that are happening around you. Cause I think so often we're Yeah. Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Makes a big difference. Yeah. I think I think there's such a pressure to be productive all the time. And I've definitely had that, you know, and if I'm just going for a walk, it's like, well, I've got to be listening to a charity podcast, so I'm learning and growing and and actually it's no, you can just chill and do nothing and enjoy nature and yeah, refuel. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, indeed. Although I I yeah, having said that, I do know that there's a number of people that do listen to this podcast when they're on their dog walk, but ⁓ yeah, they may well be all unplugging as ⁓ as as we speak. But ⁓ yeah, we encourage you to get to the end of the end to end of the pod. ⁓ and ⁓ this final question's brilliant as well. I mean, what's one thing people always assume about your job that just ⁓ just isn't true? Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ several things. I think the thing that ⁓ people assume about my job, which I find quite annoying, is people often say things to me like, ⁓ I couldn't do that. It must be so hard. Or ⁓ you work with children in Africa. I just couldn't do it. I just want to take them all home. And it's it's so patronizing. I feel like you would never say that to a charity leader that was working in ⁓ I don't know, in sort of with with homeless families in the UK or working with sick children in hospital. You'd never say, ⁓ it must be so cute, you want to take them home. It's it's very patronizing. So I don't know why people feel it's appropriate to say that when speaking about children from developing countries. ⁓ and also to be honest. not that much of my job is sort of frontline facing. I'm, you know, obviously behind the scenes work on strategy funding and all that sort of stuff. ⁓ so yeah, I find that a little a little bit frustrating, but also yeah, a bit a bit a bit patronizing that, yeah, an area for education for people, I would say. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, we might pick on ⁓ pick on ⁓ things like that through the through the conversation as we as we go. So and look, this always feels like a really big question, but I'm always interested as ⁓ y y you know, people's journey into the charity sector. It's very rare that we talk to someone who's was like, Yeah, I knew from a young age this is exactly what I wanted ⁓ wanted to do. So how how did that step into the sector work ⁓ or come about for for yourself? Yes. Olivia: Yeah, so it's it's interesting really. So I I suppose a as you just said, I I did know from a young age it's what I wanted to do, but I I didn't understand when I was younger that the charity sector existed or that careers or jobs existed in the charity sector. ⁓ I'd always been interested in volunteering as as a as a child and as a young person. So it was shaped by my experiences growing up. So my ⁓ my mum in particular was ⁓ very involved with our local community, did lots of volunteering in the local area at our local church. She was a local brown owl run our brownies group. So that had kind of always been a bit instilled in me. And sort of the old the older I got, you know, when I had other friends at school were pursuing sport or drama or music, I was there helping out the Homeless shelter, and you know that was sort of like my teenage hobbies, which is a bit weird, really. But ⁓ I just always had a passion for that. But I I didn't understand at the time that that that could be anything outside of just you know an interest, or ⁓ I didn't understand that that the the charity sector was you know very worthwhile and rewarding career. ⁓ and I'd always Again, when I was at school, I'd always been really interested in geography and you know, subjects where you kind of learn about the world and other cultures and other countries. And I'd always been desperate to sort of travel and see the world. And I knew that I wanted to use my sort of passion for for volunteering and for helping them with different causes in the UK. I knew they wanted to do that overseas. ⁓ and again, I had no idea that international development or you know, aid work or anything even really existed. I I I didn't know that. know the school I went to was very much like you pick you know you you you do that online test and it tells you ⁓ you're going to be a vet or you should be a lawyer or you know what there's there's no there's no ⁓ understanding that all these different careers and sectors that are out there. so I I wasn't thinking about it in terms of a job I was just thinking about it in terms of this is what I'm in I'm interested in doing and and I'm passionate about doing. And so I before I went to university I I did a gap year volunteering ⁓ overseas and I I ended up in Uganda and sort of that's that's how my journey started and ⁓ the rest is as they say is history. ⁓ I'd done a I'd done a couple of other small, ⁓ shorter like overseas volunteering things before that. And I knew that was something I was passionate in. But again it was very much this is what I'm going to do on my gap year. This is a Adam Stacey: Yes, right. Olivia: boxed in period of time that I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna go to uni and then I'm gonna start my career. I wasn't necessarily expecting I was I wasn't doing a gap year to help a career or anything like that. I was just doing it because it was something I wanted to do and something I felt passionate about, if that makes sense. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I I've had this conversation ⁓ a couple of times now on the podcast about the pa the power of the gap year. ⁓ and and ⁓ I don't know, we've done I don't we must have done about forty five, forty five of these podcasts by now and ⁓ yeah, at least ⁓ at least a quarter of people have talked about, you know, a g a gap year or or time overseas. ⁓ Olivia: Mm-hmm. Adam Stacey: typically in Africa or in Asia, ⁓ and the difference that that has made and and opened a a young person's mind to a whole bigger world and and opportunity and ⁓ and seeing need and wanting to ru to to respond. It's it's such a powerful ⁓ such a powerful tool. ⁓ and and seeing, you know, it's less less of these sort of gap year programs around now than what were around twenty years ago. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ it's really interesting. Olivia: Yeah, I mean it's it's it it's interesting because probably the being less of these programmes around probably is a good thing and I've seen lots of examples where it's done very badly and you know, I I completely disagree with the idea of voluntourism and yeah, I've seen things done very unethically and at Kids Compala, we made a decision a couple of years ago that we no longer take international volunteers just because we felt that we couldn't do it in a completely ethical way. And and so I wouldn't sort of on on paper, sort of theoretically, I don't necessarily think international volunteering and gap years is necessarily a good thing for international communities, but then from a personal point of view, it's absolutely transformational. It absolutely transforms someone's lives. So I think it's definitely looking at it that way rather rather than sort of it can so easily lean into sort of the the white saviourism that, ⁓ I'm going to go change the world, go and help help this poor village in Africa. Whereas actually, if you're going in with a mindset of I'm here to learn and help where I can, but actually it's gonna have the biggest impact on me and change my life and impact what I'm gonna do and impact my career, then I think that's a much much better way cut coming into it, if that makes sense. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I guess with ref reflection now, it's it's great to to look at that. I I guess I'm interested in your mindset as a what, eighteen, nineteen year old, ⁓ rocking up in in in Kampala or in you know, in Uganda and ⁓ yeah, you know, being seeing all of what you were suddenly experiencing and and wanting to respond and do something. Olivia: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I hadn't travelled much particularly at all. It was my my first time ⁓ being in Africa. It was my longest time ever being away from home and ⁓ yeah that w that was challenging within itself. This was ⁓ back in two thousand and seven, so the internet hadn't really even come to Uganda and i it we sort of kept in touch by writing letters and once a week, maybe once every Two weeks, I would make a very long journey into town to find an internet cafe to send an email to my mum. It was, you know, it was completely different to experience that young people would have today when you can just FaceTime someone instantaneously. but yeah, so it was it was ⁓ a huge challenge, culture shop, just you know, going so far away and and not being in touch with people. ⁓ but I ⁓ certainly how I was feeling at the time, I was very excited. It's something I'd wanted to do for a really long time. I was hugely passionate about wanting to get stuck in and make a difference and help where I could. And I went with a Gap Year organization. ⁓ that I knew that sort of someone had recommended to me. And I hadn't hadn't really much idea of what to expect. We had a little bit of training before we went, but but not a huge amount. And I was placed in a team, there were six of us from the UK and Ireland. There were six of us placement team and then we were were sent to Uganda ⁓ to do this gap year for best part of year. And the gap year organization that we went with didn't actually have any of their own programs or bases or anything on the ground in Uganda. We raised a huge amount of money to get there. And then when we got there, we were just sort of plonked somewhere and we didn't really hear from the Gap Year organization again. And from speaking to various people who've also done Gap Peers, that's that's quite a similar experience for many people. But the Where we were placed as this sort of gap year team, we were placed at a high school on the outskirts of Kampala. And in Uganda, school's not free. So the pupils at this secondary high school. were pretty well off because if you can afford to go to school, you're vastly better off than the majority of the population. If you can afford to go to secondary school, you're e you know even better off than than people who can only afford primary. The statistics in terms of the number of children that only complete primary school and then drop out are huge. But also this was a boarding school. So if you can afford to go to secondary boarding school, you're you're you know pr pretty well off compared to the majority of the population. And the the pupils at the school were lovely, made some really wonderful friends, but we were supposed to be teaching. And I was 18, I just finished school, you know, I got okay A levels, but I was not in any way qualified to teach. But also this school had adequate, good quality, qualified teachers. We weren't in any way needed. and spent the first few weeks trying to find things to do really and join in, and it was fun. Adam Stacey: Yes. Olivia: But I felt that at the time I felt that I was there and I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to help and ⁓ I wanted to be useful and had all this free time to do something. and so lot long story short, but met some wonderful Ugandan friends and kind of expressed this frustration to them a little bit that We're here, we want to see the real country, and we really want to get stuck in it and help. And we've got all this time and passion. Surely there's something we can do. And met ⁓ some wonderful friends. one guy in particular called Sam Wandayo. he was ⁓ the nephew of the head teacher of the school, ⁓ and so he was living with with his uncle, ⁓ and Adam Stacey: Yeah. Olivia: mm, sort of doing odd jobs around the school and things like that. But again he he didn't have ⁓ a hu a huge amount to do and so kind of became this ⁓ unofficial member of our team. And as we got to know him, he told us more of of his story and he'd had a very, very challenging childhood, had grown up in very difficult circumstances being ⁓ he lost his parents when he was young and he was passed around from different family member to family member who didn't take good care of him. And he spent some time growing up in the slums in Kampala and in in different places and he shared his story and it was really heartbreaking story. Adam Stacey: Mm-hmm. Olivia: But despite all of the challenges he'd been through, he just had this real passion that children in similar circumstances didn't feel alone. because the overwhelming thing that he'd had is yes, he'd gone through this awful poverty, hunger, hardship, but he just hadn't felt loved or wanted. So there's this passion that children, regardless of the situations they're living in or whatever they're going through. Adam Stacey: Yes. Olivia: Can have a safe space to go to, safe people that care about them and they just know that they're loved and they're accepted. And that was his passion and that was his vision. And him and a couple of his friends had started going into one of the ⁓ biggest informal settlements in Kampala. and had started trying to just meet with the children and show them a little bit of love and a little bit of care and a little bit of joy. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Olivia: And because, as I said, we were on this gap year, we had a lot of passion, a lot of spare time, a lot of energy. You have a lot more energy at 18 than you do, than certainly than I do, than I do now. we just started joining in with what they were doing. So whenever we had free time, which was to be honest, almost every day, we would start going into the slums in Kampala and just joining in with what they were doing. and we called them kids' clubs, which is where our name came from. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Sure. Olivia: And we'd just go into these communities, we'd take footballs, we take those massive play parachutes, skipping ropes, suites, and balloons, and just have a load of fun with kids. There was no strategy, there was no plan, there was no purpose. It was just we're here, we want to be helpful, here's some. kids in need, let's go and do what we can. And you know, I don't have a lot of resources or even skills particularly, but I can run around and be silly with children and have a great time. And so that's that's what we did really and that's sort of the origin story of Kids Club Kampala of of where it came from. Adam Stacey: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that's really ⁓ yeah, r really fascinating, like you say, just you know, meeting meeting kids where they're at and you know, bringing ⁓ bring bringing that fun and that that that joy. So you've got this this this gap year, and I guess the like you say, there's this the the seeds of something here for for for for growing. But what what what came next? So presumably the the gap year comes to an end, you come back back to the UK. ⁓ is that then straight on to university? Olivia: Yeah, so ⁓ the gap year finished, came back to the UK. I'd had a wonderful time on my gapier about For me, that was all kind of like that chapter was closed, really. ⁓ I'd done that, had a great time, was off to uni. ⁓ and I went, I was going to study economics at university, but I actually changed and ended up doing ⁓ international development because I wanted to learn more about you know the economies of developing countries. and after my first year of university, me and two of my friends from my Gap Year, so the three of us, we would we had originally planned to go travelling together and we were going to go to ⁓ India and sort of Southeast Asia removed. going to traveling. And then I can't exactly remember why, but we decided actually before we do that, we're just going to go back to Uganda for a a few weeks because we just missed it and we wanted to go and go and see our friends. So we decided to go back to Uganda in the sort of summer break after First Day of Uni. We went back to Uganda for a few weeks. ⁓ we didn't go with the Gapia organisation, just went by ourselves and and went to stay with some friends that we'd met while we were there. ⁓ and didn't have any plan of what we were doing. We were just going to visit friends and and sort of see the country. We'd miss the food, you know. ⁓ and while we were there we went back into the informal settlements in Kampala that we'd been doing this work in because our our friends had can you know, tried to continue doing these kids' clubs when when they could. They by that time they they were working, so they kind of were doing it on the weekends and in the in their spare time. and we went back in we went back in ⁓ one Saturday and we we joined them in this kids' club again. ⁓ and there was one that really stuck with me was we would we'd organise this big football match there was like hundreds of kids and we were it was crazy, ⁓ all running around, kicking balls everywhere, and it was it was loads fun. there was this group of children sitting on the side not joining in, ⁓ and went over. one that really stuck with me was we would we'd organise this big football match there was like hundreds of kids and we were it was crazy, ⁓ all running around, kicking balls everywhere, and it was it was loads fun. ⁓ and we had it was like a whole day of games and sports and and there was this group of children sitting on the side not joining in, ⁓ and I went over. To speak to them, and I was like, Why aren't you joining in? Is this not fun? I was like, Are you bored? And this is me with my you know Western hat on. I'm Are you bored? ⁓ Is this games that we're organizing not fun enough for you? And they said, No, we just we haven't eaten in a few days, and we just don't have the energy to run around. And it was then in a moment where I was like, ⁓ wow, okay. Yes, we are. To speak to them, and I was like, Why aren't you joining in? Is this not fun? I was like, Are you bored? And this is me with my you know Western hat on. I'm Are you bored? ⁓ Is this games that we're organizing not fun enough for you? And they said, No, we just we haven't eaten in a few days, and we just don't have the energy to run around. And it was then in a moment where I was like, ⁓ wow, okay. Yes, we are. Do this great thing, you know, we are giving children fun and joy and laughter and love and care and those things are so important. But actually, there is so much more that needs to be done here. There is so much need. Do this great thing, you know, we are giving children fun and joy and laughter and love and care and those things are so important. But actually, there is so much more that needs to be done here. There is so much need. ⁓ We are trying to bring fun and but children can't even access that because they they don't have basic things like food. And then also the more we kind of dug into it over that few weeks, it was sort of like, this child over here. ⁓ they're they're actually living on their they're actually living on their own they haven't got parents they're they're sort of living on their own looking after the brothers brothers and sisters or this child over here they're actually homeless or this child over here they've gone through this awful situation of abuse and the more we kind of uncovered these stories it was just like ⁓ wow there is there is a lot here ⁓ so Starting a charity was absolutely the last thing on my mind. I hadn't even crossed my mind. What I did, I was 19 at this point. What I did, and I was very much like, yes, go save the world. I quite naively, but I emailed every single organization I could think of. So I ⁓ you know, emailed CEO of World Vision, CEO of Oxfam, you know, I was emailing and Googling, and everyone said, There's these children in this community and they need your help. And Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. Olivia: know I had no idea about charitable trusts or anything like that. I was literally like, ⁓ let me e yeah, let me let me email Water Aid, let me email Oxfam. And I I got the wall of silence. I mean, yeah. I didn't even know what I was doing. But I really felt there's such a need here. Adam Stacey: Yeah. Olivia: And there were no other organizations doing anything. It's it's changed slightly now. I mean, this is twenty years ago and and it has changed, but there's a lot of social stigma around working in informal settlements around the world, but in Uganda in particular, fans, a lot of social stigma because there's all the land is contested, there's sort of you know Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. Olivia: tenancy rights, they're technic or they're you know they're informal, there's there are as with any areas of urban poverty even you know within the UK, there are higher rates of crime and abuse and gangs and drugs and and that sort of stuff. But particularly large large aid organisations, they wouldn't want to work in these communities because they're sort of technically seen as illegal settlements and it's much this is me with a cynical hat on, but it's much harder to see results in those sort of communities. Whereas if you're implementing a program where you're in a rural area and you're helping someone to grow some crops, it's much easier to sort of measure impact. Whereas these communities they're very transient. People move, sometimes parts of the communities get get knocked down. It it's it it it's very it's very difficult to sort of Adam Stacey: Yeah. Right. Sure. Olivia: work in these communities and sort of sustain impact. And so we found that there was no NGOs, no organizations, no real community, even sort of you know CBOs or anything like that really working within these communities at the time. As I said, it it's very different now. ⁓ and so we after a lot of soul searching and a lot of Adam Stacey: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Olivia: feeling very angry and and frustrated and and felt okay, well maybe maybe we could do something. Maybe we could do something. And again, starting a charity wasn't really something that I particularly thought of, but I was a student. ⁓ I went back to uni and one again, one thing that students have is a lot of time and a lot of energy. So just did loads of silly fundraising things and got friends involved and started raising money. But again we weren't a charity or anything like that. It was just like, well, these kids are in need. Let's see what we can do. Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. It can see a need and want to respond, yeah. Olivia: Yeah, yeah. And then as as as time went on, it kinda realised, ⁓ okay, actually I think if we are trying to raise money and we're trying to send money overseas, then we probably need to, you know, have a bank account. We probably need to register with HMRC and we probably need to start that thinking a ch starting a charity, but that was never the goal, that was never the plan. It was kind of it happened quite organically. and we actually first registered our our friends in Uganda actually first registered as a charity in in Uganda first. So it was very much from the beginning, had been done in partnership that there was the the sort of the local organisation doing the work on the ground and then the UK charity predominantly raising funds and supporting in that way. Adam Stacey: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And is that partnership model because I I mean interestingly, just picking up I guess on the on the Gap year ⁓ conversation that, you know, we kind of led into led into here, that that partnership model obviously been an important part of, you know, how you've built the organization over the last ⁓ well, ⁓ how many years now is it? yeah. Yeah. Olivia: Yeah. Nearly nearly twenty years, yes. Yes. Crazy. ⁓ yes, ⁓ the partnership models is I'd say is vital to to how we operate and sort of vital to our our success. everything we don't do has always been done ⁓ as an equal partnership. It's not that we're a UK charity and we're deciding what projects to do and telling people how to spend their money. It we are just simply enabling the great work to happen. We are just simply raising money and in in yeah, enabling the work to happen. We are, as an organization, we are really, really passionate about being community led. And so even In as I said, with this we have the partnership with our overseas and delivery team. So we actually now also work in Kenya and Tanzania. So we have partner organisations in Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. But we've been working in Uganda the longest. But within Uganda, so we have a partnership with our Ugandan team there, and we've got quite a sizeable office, we've got just over 40 members of staff. Sam, who was the the guy I mentioned his story earlier, who was sort of the first one to ⁓ introduce this to these ⁓ children and communities, he's our Ugandan director, he heads up the whole team there. ⁓ he's just an incredible force of nature. But even even we work in that partnership model, but our Ugandan office team work in that same partnership model with the communities that we support. So again, we're not from the UK speaking to our staff on the ground saying you have to do this, we want you to work in X Way on making those decisions. It's the same. So the communities very much themselves have a voice and come together and will suggest ideas for programmes or will kind of suggest, ⁓ actually this isn't working. Let's try this this way, or there's a need here, and can we do this? And it's very much organic, sort of from from the from the ground up. ⁓ and so our our ⁓ program teams in East Africa are really committed to working directly with the communities, listening to what their needs are, responding in an appropriate way, adapting projects where needed, and that's the same attitude that we have we have in the UK. And I think that we would not have had. Anywhere near the sort of impact that we have had if we hadn't operated in in that way. And to me, it's it's a no-brainer. It's not just the right thing to do, it is the right thing to do, obviously. but you you you can't run a successful organization, you there's you there's too many assumptions otherwise. I don't know what is best for these people. they people know best what they need and and often they have the solutions themselves as well. They just simply need resources and support. So that's what we're trying to do. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I suppose there's something about like you say the organic growth. And I guess, you know, being a smaller organization where you know we see a lot of, you know, s more traditional, I guess, larger sending organizations that are trying to shift to a partnership, that it's harder it's harder to make that change. But because you've been there on the ground, built those relationships locally, ⁓ they've been able to work and and and and something, I guess, within the within the size of an organization that means you can ⁓ yeah, you can move move move quickly. Olivia: Yeah, definitely. And this is what I'm I'm really passionate about about small charities in general. They're so adaptable and and resilient. And if if crises happen or if something's not working, you can just quickly pivot and be able to do that. I mean, for just an example of that is we saw this during the COVID pandemic. In Uganda in particular, there was very large NGOs, very large aid organism organisations, just completely pulled out, pulled out all of their staff, because often they only have not only, but often they have large teams of international staff. They pulled their staff out, the closed programs. ⁓ At at the time when people were suffering the most and they just stepped out because they weren't able to do that. But for us as an organization, being small and but also having an ear to the ground and having those relationships with local leaders and local community members, we were able to ask people, what do you need? How can we help? And what we found is during COVID, during really shockingly, during the first three months of the COVID pandemic in the communities we work in. mm the vast majority of people passed away from starvation, they didn't pass away from COVID. And so we again we said to communities, what do you need? What can we do? And they said, we need food. Because the Uganda had a very strict lockdown, schools were closed for a really long time, and so many people, particularly in the settlements that we work in, so many people work in the informal economy. So when there's something like a lockdown and people don't have salaries, you know, there's no such thing as furlough. And if people's job is sort of selling things at the side of the road, and and suddenly they can't do that, people people literally lost incomes overnight. So what we did was we adapted ⁓ our centres. So we have children's centres, we have ⁓ education classrooms, we have vocational training centres. They all had to close because you can't gather you know large numbers of people to do things. We converted them into food banks and we just started feeding people. And it was thousands if if not million millions of meals that we provided and and sort of tens of thousands of people was were supported through that time. And that was really only possible because we were a small organisation, we could pivot quickly, but also because we were listening and responding to the needs of those communities. And we're and we're seeing this a lot now. There's a lot of there's so much conversation in particular in international development space around shifting the power. But what does that really mean? And again, we've seen this with the UK aid cuts that happened last year. We're seeing that it's when when they they're cut, it's the larger organisations that are just having to close programs and it's often the smaller organisations that are stepping up to fill in those gaps. They don't have more funding and more resources, they're just adapting and pivoting to meet those needs on the ground where where they are. Adam Stacey: Yeah. And is that is that partly because obviously you're not contracted to deliver ⁓ but you know, you've got to deliver X, Y, and Z, which giv gives gives you that bit more ⁓ bit more freedom. Olivia: Yeah, yeah, I think it does. It does definitely give give more freedom. There's a lot less bureaucracy, a lot a lot less red tape, and ⁓ things can can happen quicker and aren't tied into big contracts. I mean it's not all good though. I mean, there's a hu it's awfully been a huge number of small charities that have closed. You know, it's not it's not all all positive, but I definitely think yeah, being small means you can be nimble and and and agile and and and pivot where needed. Adam Stacey: And you build something absolutely from the ground up from a ⁓ from from yeah, like you say, by me, experiencing a need as a teenager and and and ⁓ responding. I mean just talk us through that whole journey about finding and but we could probably talk for hours about about this, Olivia, but ⁓ which I recognise again is another huge question, isn't it? But you know, founding ⁓ you know, grafting to build something alongside you know, ⁓ other other work as well, ⁓ you know, obviously y you know, building that. What what what's that journey look like for you as a as as an individual? Olivia: Yeah, well again I'm it's not it wasn't sort of something that I set out to do. As I said, I didn't set out to set up a charity and even when we did set up a charity, as I said, this was while I was at university, ⁓ it was very much we were teeny tiny and it was just something I was doing in my spare time and I had to quickly learn how to do things I had no idea about. And again, I think it's different these days. There's so many great resources and training and podcasts and and things out there that you could kind of you know listen to and learn and get ideas, but that wasn't there. So I had to sort of you know learn quite quickly ⁓ how to set up a website or yeah how to file accounts of the charity commission or you know all these things that you don't realize you need to learn about. You know, I was just passionate about helping people and then had to quickly realize, ⁓ actually, no, it's not actually appropriate. I'm not the most needed to be there on the ground hanging out with these kids and doing this work. No, it's way more useful for me to be in the UK doing the fundraising and the admin. But we were very small for a very long time. So when I finished university, I actually got a job in the private sector, but working within international development. So I I worked within management consultancy, but on international development programmes, which Yeah, I I had mixed feelings about, but anyway, that's conversation for another day. and then in 2013, ⁓ myself and my co-founder actually ⁓ won an award ⁓ with ⁓ Cosmopolitan Magazine. We won the ⁓ one of the Women of the Year awards, which which was incredible, and it gave us this huge platform. And Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah. Olivia: I had been working, as I said, in the international development ⁓ sector for a while, or in fact had lots of frustrations about my job. And when winning this award, there was some funding with it, and and as I said, quite a lot of publicity and press around it. I decided to quit my full-time job and see if I could make Kids Club Compile a a success and sort of have have a go of it. I said I had a little bit of funding. through this award, which was a bit of a cushion. And then I I decided to sort of yeah have a have a go at at focusing on it for a little while. And I think within the first few months of just focusing solely on on Kids of Campala our income tripled. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, sure. Right. Well. Olivia: And I was just like, okay, wow, this is this is yeah, this is maybe something I could do. ⁓ but again, it was a very long journey. That was end very end of 2013. ⁓ and then I sort of was, you know, I went to officially being employed one day a week and having another job on the side, and then I was part-time and again doing a couple of other jobs on the side. So it was it it kind of happened slowly, and then it wasn't until 2019 that that we Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. Yes. Olivia: kind of formalised a little bit more and I officially became the chief exec and we got some other staff and you know it sort of formalised a little bit more and then kind of grown grown and grown since then really. And it's been yeah quite organic. And we're still small, but we are a bit bigger than we were. So there's now eight of us in the UK. Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'll go. Yes, yeah, yeah. And and are there as you as you like you say it's been organic, has have there been resources or people along the way that have helped support or yeah what where is it that you've sort of ⁓ yeah, you relied on, built from, learnt from, or is it yeah, as you figure these things as you ⁓ as you've gone. Olivia: Yeah, I mean it's very much been a learning journey along the way. I've always had Wonderful supportive communities. ⁓ I'm not from a wealthy background at all. None of our sort of staff or any of our founding trustees or any of our staff are from wealthy backgrounds at all. We're not particularly connected with anyone in the corporate world or anything like that. I'd say key to our success, one thing that I bang on about all the time, and I think my team get a bit sick of me because of it, but I think we're just very good at thanking people very well. ⁓ we Got an incredible community of ⁓ individual givers, of regular givers, the people who have given us five pounds a month every single month for 15 years, and we are just really really appreciative of every single person that supports us, and yeah, you know, as we've grown, we have got you know, more we've got better at writing funding applications, we've got better at running fund fundraising appeals. I do think it's kind of the core of kind of how we've grown is just communicating our impact to people really, really well. And again, that helps being small and and being really agile. So if someone gives us a hundred pounds to do a particular thing, we can do that within a week or two and then send them a photo of what's happened and then we thank them and they feel appreciated. And it just kind of grows from there. So it's not been a particular sort of, you know, one particular donor or one particular thing, but we've just Yeah, we we've got a real community of supporters, I would say, and they're they're our biggest asset by far. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And the power of looking after those donors, ⁓ clearly is evident. So tell us a little bit about what the charity looks like ⁓ looks like today. Olivia: Yeah, so so we now ⁓ work across three countries across East Africa. Uganda is still where the majority of our activity happens, also Kenya and Tanzania, and we sort of roughly have three main program areas. So the first one is ⁓ around access to education, so ⁓ helping children ⁓ with schooling, school fees, additional school support. our second programme area is around family strengthening, so we work with ⁓ families to help them increase their incomes. We do income generation, work, poverty alleviation, and then kind of the third area, which is our biggest, biggest piece of the work by far, is around child protection. So we still run these kids' clubs, hence our name. but they're very much a sort of a jumping off point for children to then access our other services. ⁓ so it might be that a child will will come at just as it happened back back in the day. There might be a child that come come to one of our kids' clubs and they come to join in, they'll say, I've I haven't eaten for a A few days or I'm not safe at home. Or you know, they'll disclose something and then we've got teams that will go and we we've I we've and teams that rescue children from from safe situations where they're unsafe. We've got a big program where we help resettle children into kinship care or into foster families. We do lots of work sort of legally advocating for children. But I'd say one thing that again is really key to our success is our programs work really holistically together. So they're not sort of in silos. So it might be that there's a child who has been rescued from a situation of abuse and then we're able to support them through our education programme and then maybe when they finished on that program we're able to support one of their parents to ⁓ get some skills to help them start up a business. So it works very, very ⁓ organically how that works as well. And And where we work in Kenya and Tanzania, it's it's it's sort of very similar, holistic programme of support, very, very streamlined. And again, it's it's all down to our fantastic teams that actually are there every day working on the ground, advocating for these communities and supporting them. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And actually was having look at your impact report ⁓ earlier earlier today. And ⁓ you know the numbers Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll make sure that we'll make sure in the show notes that there's links through obviously to the websites people can read and see. But yeah, I mean the the impact the impact is huge. It's in it it's incredible. ⁓ When you and you talked earlier about, you know, wanting to take moments to reflect and to pause and to think. I mean, when you take that moment to pause and reflect on on Olivia: ⁓ great. Yeah, just newly released our impact report, yeah. Adam Stacey: you know, what what the what the charity does and what it looks like now, you know, from that passion and youth and n I guess to a degree a bit of naivety at the start of we're d we're gonna yeah, we're gonna we're gonna build something. I mean yeah, I mean just how how do you feel when you reflect on on what it looks like today? Olivia: No. Yeah, I think I think very, very proud to be honest. We've yeah, since since the beginning we've supported over one and a half million people, ⁓ and that and that number is growing. And I think because we've been running for about 20 years now, we've literally supported some children from when they were very, very small. Actually, quite a few of our staff members are are former children that we we supported were in the beginning, which is lovely. And yeah, I think being ⁓ yeah, be being proud of w of what we have achieved and where we are today. I think I don't know if it's just ⁓ being young when I started or being female, but I think I've always sort of felt embarrassed of being proud of of things and always felt, ⁓ no, no. But whereas actually, ⁓ yeah, it it is it is great. I mean it's not absolutely not all me at all. We've sort of got wonderful board, wonderful staff team and and absolutely amazing overseas partners, which I've talked about. But yeah, I think it's ⁓ it's wonderful thinking what's been achieved, but also, you know, thinking if if we hadn't been there, then what what situation may it have been instead. So I think knowing that we've helped, you know, even if we just helped one person, but w we have helped quite a lot of people, ⁓ knowing that it's made a difference is is very rewarding. Adam Stacey: Yeah, and and certainly without a shadow of a doubt should should ⁓ yeah, should feel proud of that and that and that driving force that that you and like you say the partners of the ground ⁓ have been to to to make that happen. But I get that sense that it's ⁓ yeah, there's no sort of resting on your on your laurels. There's the that sense of there's still there's still more to do. Olivia: Yeah, I I think I mean, I think that's probably something that everybody who works in the charity or sector will say your job is never done. ⁓ there is always more to do. And unfortunately working in international development is very, very difficult. ⁓ you know, I said the UK aid cuts really hit communities really hard, but even just what's been happening recently with, you know, global oil prices increasing and and cost of living and inflation and it it's it's it's very diff it is very, very difficult and it and it does feel that ⁓ our job is is never done. so that's hard. And I think that's something that I've sort of had to learn the hard way that I'm not personally responsible for everybody. And yes, the job will never be done, but it's kind of saying, okay what is good and enough. And something again I've I've had to learn the hard way is ⁓ just trying to be a little bit more boundary just for my own mental health. You know, there's definitely been times where the amount of hours that I have worked and speaking to other other charity chief execs, I know it it it's such a common thing, a feeling like you can't ever switch off 'cause your job is never done. There is always more to do. But it's actually, I guess one thing I've really learned the hard way is don't take care of yourself and your own well being. then the charity is not going to be there for the long for the long run necessarily. So it's yeah, trying to have a a longer term picture. You know, again, it's like if you spend all your funding immediately, then you're not going to have anything to invest for the long term. So it's ⁓ yeah. Adam Stacey: Yeah, that's a really helpful insight. I I guess as ⁓ sadly we have to yeah, ⁓ as we sort of bring the conversation, ⁓ conversation to a to a close. But yeah, we'll make sure, Olivia, that ⁓ like I say, that there's links in the show notes so people can come find out more about the charity about the organization and ⁓ assume you're happy that we sort of tag you if people want to to reach out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's brilliant. it's one of those conversations that I think probably we could have ⁓ could have gone on for for a few hours. It feels like it's probably Olivia: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. What? Adam Stacey: ⁓ yeah, we need to invite you back ⁓ on the podcast in twelve months or yeah, two years or so and yeah, hear more about yeah, what's what's happening and and developing. But ⁓ honestly, thank you so much for your time today. It's been really insightful, loads loads learned and ⁓ yeah, a show I'm sure that ⁓ the listeners have really enjoyed. Olivia: I'd love that. ⁓ thank you so much for having me. It's been been wonderful.