Latest / Beautifully Complex / 279: You Might Also Like: In It: Raising Kids who Learn Differently, from Understood.org

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279: You Might Also Like: In It: Raising Kids who Learn Differently, from Understood.org · Beautifully Complex

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: When the kid does the thing you want them to do,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, you finally took a shower. Huh.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: It's like, why why are you discouraging them? You don't
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: think you're discouraging them, but you're doing this like judgmental
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: kind of finally thing that makes you a jerk, and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the kid's like, well, now I'm not going to do
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: it again.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hello everyone,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: We're doing something a little bit different today on the show.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: We're sharing an episode from another podcast. It's called in It.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Raising Kids Who Learn Differently is for parents of kids
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other learning
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: differences like ADHD and dyslexia. You know full well how
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: easy it can be to feel alone on this parenting journey,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: but you don't have to. In each episode of in It,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: you'll hear practical tips, helpful information from experts, and you'll
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: feel confident about the decisions you make with your child.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I listen to a few episodes of in It, Raising
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Kids who Learn Differently, and I find that every episode
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: offers very practical strategies for our busy family lives, as
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: well as some relief that there are people who actually
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: get our parenting struggles. This is an episode that's all
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: about how to get your kids to care about hygiene.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, I've been there in that struggle, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure some of you have to. So sit back,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: grab a warm drink, and enjoy this conversation on in It.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to in It, a podcast for families
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: with kids who learn and think differently.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes and yes,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: sometimes failures from experts and parents and caregivers like you.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: I'm Gretchen Vistra, a former classroom teacher and an editor
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: here at understood dot org.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: And I'm Rachel Bozik, a writer, editor and mom who
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: has definitely been in it. Today, we're getting real.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: We sure are, because it's time to talk about hygiene.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Du du dun. Oh boy, Okay, brushing teeth showering, putting
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: on the odorant, wearing clean clothes. What do you do
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: when a young person in your midst is refusing to
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: do one or all of these things For.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Lots of families hygiene avoidance and become a major source
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: of conflict.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: And let's face it, pretty stinky.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Luckily, we've got someone with us today who's very skilled
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: at tackling this kind of thing.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Brendan Mahon is an ADHD and executive function coach. He
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: has his own podcast called ADHD Essentials.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: He's raising two teenage boys and he has ADHD, so
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: he really gets it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: He's been a guest with us before and we're so
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: glad to have him back. Brendan, welcome to in it.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to be back.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: We are so excited to talk to you. And today,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: as you know, we're talking about what we can do
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: to get our kids to stay on top of their hygiene.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: But it occurs to me, before we start solving that problem,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: maybe we need to take a step back and understand
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: why lots of kids may have trouble with hygiene and
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: may inadvertently end up, you know, going to school being
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: a little less than squeaky clean. Sometimes, So what is
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: it that gets us here? Why do some kids seem
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: to have trouble with cleanliness and self care?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think there's a lot of reasons, and that
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: makes it tricky because we don't know which one it is,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: especially when we're just sort of talking on a podcast, right,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: It's not as though you're a client that I'm consulting with.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So moms and dads who are listening to this are
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: going to have to do a little bit of their
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: own research and digging when it comes to their kids.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have to talk to their kids, ask them questions,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: pay attention to what might be happening, depending on how
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: easy this is even to talk about, because some kids
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: this is not a comfortable topic. Some parents, this isn't
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: a comfortable topic. So I want to honor that element
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: of this that it can be more challenging than we
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: might make it seem in terms of reasons. One reason
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: that jumps out that is not as obvious necessarily is
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: just the sensory experience of it, right, Like the sensory
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: experience of taking a shower or cleaning my body, right,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: clipping my toenails, getting a cut, That stuff can be
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: really challenging as a sensory experience for some kids, So
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that might be a part of it. And if that
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: is a part of it, we want to wonder and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: speculate how can we make it gentler. One thing that
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I love this is I'm going to sort of go
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: problem solution if that's okay, because that way I'm less
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: likey to forget. But one solution that I found specifically
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: for showering. It works for sensory stuff, it's going to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: work for a lot of the challenges that I bring
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: up is making a playlist for the shower. If we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: just let our kids listen to a playlist while they
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: take a shower, it can make the sensory experience a
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: little bit more gentle. This can also help support kids
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: with timing issues. Right the kid who will take a shower,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: but when they take the shower it's forever. Yes, yeah,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: often that's because they lose track of time, right, They
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: just because the sensory experience of the shower can make
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: time get weird for neurodiverse folks. And if we have
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a soundtrack to our shower, we can know, all right
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: when this song plays, that means I'm done, Like I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: got to wrap it up. Another thing that can happen
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: is you might have a kid that will take a shower,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: but they never wash their hair, or they never use
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: any soap. They just stand in the shower with the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: water running. Well, if you identify certain songs on the
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: playlist as this is the song like that is telling
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you to wash your hair when this song comes on,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: that means you got to scrub your hair up with
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: soap or shampoo, and then when it's over, rinch your
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: head off. So we can also use the playlist to
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: sort of provide some cues at whatever level of obnoxious
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: we need to be right if we need to play
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: songs that are about hair.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: I'm sitting here thinking about what songs would be great.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your kid might be able to listen to the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: songs they like, they might not be able to write.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: We might have to play a song about hair so
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: that they know and it's more obvious. I don't know,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: or it might be they get a song that they
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: like in the beginning and then the next song is
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: one that they're not a big fan of, so that
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: they'll kind of come out of the music and pay
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: attention to what they need to do. So the music
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: stuff is it can be a pretty big deal.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I love that idea. That is, yeah, that's really great, Okay,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: the sensory thing, I mean, it's huge, right for lots
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: of kids. What might be another reason why kids might
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: have trouble with hygiene and self care?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: It could be a control thing where you can't really
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: make your kid take a shower, not really, So there
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: might be a layer to this that is the kid
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: needing control, the kid recognizing they get some power in this.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: That stuff often is about relationships, so it might be
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: worthwhile to pay attention to how you're interacting with your
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: kid around these personal hygiene things. Russian teeth, taking a shower.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Are you doing it in a way where you're trying
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: to rest control away from your child and force them
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: to do whatever it is that you're asking them to do.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Are you sort of taking control in places where if
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: some word to do it to you, it would offend
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: you and really bother you, But because you've got a kid,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you're not seeing that it's obnoxious. A good example of
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: this would be when the kid does the thing you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: want them to do, and then you're like, oh, you
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: finally took a shower, huh oh, yeah, it's like, why
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: why are you discouraging them? Like you you don't think
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: you're discouraging them, but you're doing this like judgmental kind
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: of finally thing that makes you a jerk, and the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: kid's like, well, now I'm not going to do it again.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: M So, like this power and control piece, it plays
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: out in a lot of different ways. And the more
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: we give our kids some agency, and the more we
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: give them dignity and let them kind of do their
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: thing and give them credit for being the wonderful kid
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: that they are, the less this stuff is in conflict,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and the more they're likely they are to do it. Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: Now that makes a lot of sense. And what about
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: when it's an executive function issue? Can you talk a
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: little bit about when that's the optin?
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's certainly another component to this, right is
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: did they lose track of time in the shower and
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: didn't wash anything? They just stood there getting wet because
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: they lost track of time, and now they have to
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: get out. You're banging on the door saying we gotta go,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: we gotta go, and now you're like wait, you still
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: smell like you're just.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: Where did they come out?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: With dry hair, right or dry hair.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've never seen that happen.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So some of it is like that's in attention potentially,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that's certainly time awareness. It's made distractability, it depends, right,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: But those are all things that get in the way
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and moving on to another level of sort of self
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: care and hygiene, there's also cleaning a room. It happens
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to me. I'll be cleaning my office and I'll pick
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: something up and I'm like, oh, man, I remember that conference.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: That was a great conference. And now I'm thinking about
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the conference and what I did there, and it was
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: like five years ago, and it's not the least bit
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: pertinent to what I'm supposed to be doing right now.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: But my memory got hijacked and I I started drifting
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole. The same thing happens to your kids.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: They pick up a toy, they pick up a picture,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden, they're wandering off somewhere
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: in their mind. And it's not that they don't want
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to clean their room. It's just that they got derailed
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and there's no one there helping them to stay on track. Necessarily,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: not that we need to be on top of them.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: The whole time, but we do need to support them
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: if it's a thing they struggle with. One thing I
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: did with my guys when they were they were little.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: This was when Thor Ragnarok came out. That's how long
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: ago this happened. I gave them a clipboard and I
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was like, all right, this is what we need to do.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: You need to clean your room so we can go
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: to see Thor Ragnarok. And on the clipboard, I stuck
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a piece of paper and I just made a tea
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: chart and on one side it said on task and
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: on the other side it said off task. And I
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was like, all I want you to do is make
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a check mark on task or off test. That's it.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Just put a check mark in the right column. Whenever
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: you hear alexa, say how are you doing? And I
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: set a bunch of Alexa. I think it was like
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: every five or ten minutes, I don't remember. I made
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: it really clear to my kids. I was really kind
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to them. I was treating them with dignity. I was
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: not this was not a gotcha, right, I was clear
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: on that. I was like, this is not a gotcha.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: This is just for you to pay attention and see
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: how you're doing. And then if it turns out your
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: off task a lot, we'll kind of figure out why,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and then next time you clean your room, we'll be
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: able to work around that. And if you're on task,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: then great. One of the things that that activity does
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: is it forces you to stay on task because you
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: get a little competitive, you get a little like alert
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to the fact.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: Want to say you're off yeah, yeah.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So you want to check the on tax box. So
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: just by doing it, I was keeping them on task
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and they had one one time they were off task.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I was like whatever, but they got their room clean
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: and that was all I wanted.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Do you think it was helpful because it was Alexa
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: doing the reminding versus you.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love Alexa as a reminding tool. I don't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: have to remember to do it, and it depersonalizes the prompt.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: It's not Dad's a pain in the butt and constantly
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: asking me to do whatever it is that he is
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: asking me to do. It's alexis doing it. And my
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: kids set their own reminders in Alexa and have been
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: doing that since they were like seven, they're fifteen now.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: And I'm assuming for folks who don't have an Alexa device.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: There's other little apps and things you could download on
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: phones or what not to use as like a virtual reminder.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: You can just set an alarm. Both of my kids
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: have alarms they set on their phones for stuff, stuff
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that they don't want Alexa to say out loud at
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: home when we've got friends over or something, you know,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: just off.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you brought up something really important that a
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: lot of these hygiene issues could be about power struggles, right,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: and like kids wanting to make their own choices and
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: not be told when they're going to do things. It's
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: their own dignity. They're going to take care of themselves.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: So that could be true with a lot of kids.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: And if so, as a parent, how do you pick
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: your battle right, Like if you list off all the
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: things that kids are supposed to do, for example, before
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: they leave the house, like brush their teeth, wash their hands,
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: you know, make sure their clothes are clean and laundered,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: have do you odor it on? How do you start
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to tackle this If you don't want to be the nag,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: you don't want to have power struggles with them, but
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: you would really like them to go to school with
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: at least a few of these things done.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I would take over the things that I can take
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: over if they need to be taken over. Right, So
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: if I have to take over laundry for a little while,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I'll take over laundry and I can eventually pass that
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: over to them again or for the first time. But
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it's not a big deal if you're doing their laundry.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: In order to give them a little more space to
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: take a shower, brush their teeth, that kind of stuff.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I would also systematize as much of this as I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: possibly can. If I want my kids to brush their teeth, cool,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: let's set an Alexa reminder that reminds us to brush
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: our teeth. And I say us on purpose, because if
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: my kids never see me brush my teeth, they're not
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: going to brush their teeth. Right, So I need to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: brush my teeth in front of my kids, even if
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I go to bed later than they do. And it
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: might be helpful to systematize it and use the excuse
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: of we only have one shower, two showers. I don't
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: know how many showers you have in your house, but
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: we have more people than showers, and we have to
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: make sure that everybody gets to take a shower. So
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: that means I need you guys, or you child or
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: whatever taking a shower in the morning or in the evening,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: because we just need to divide and conquer. We might
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: need to set it up that way, and that's totally fine.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It might also be useful to talk to your kids
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: about the timing of it, because that's here too, right.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Sometimes kids take showers at inconvenient times and then we're like,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: we were supposed to be eating dinner and you, why
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: do you take a shower? Right? But that's discouraging them.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Instead of being a grump about it, just go all right,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad you took a shower. Can we try
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: to figure out a way to do this that's not
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: at five thirty at night, because the last couple of
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: times you took a shower it was a five thirty
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that's dinner time. It kind of messes stuff up a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: little bit. When might make more sense. We might need
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: to talk to our kids about that too. We might
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: need to sit down as parents and reflect on does
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: our schedule give them enough time to take a shower,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and if not, how do we create that space and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: when is the best time for that space to be made.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe your kid doesn't want to go to bed with
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: wet hair, and so even though you're like, you could
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: just take a shower at nine thirty right before you
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: go to bed, but your kid who has long hair,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: whether it's a son or a daughter, is like, I
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to go to bed with a soaken, wet
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: head because then I wake up my hair's a mess,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. Maybe in middle school
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they were great at it, and then high school started
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they had to get up
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a half an hour earlier, and now they're not showering anymore.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Often this is just a problem to solve, but instead
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of looking at it as a problem to solve, we
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: look at it as a moral failing or oh my god,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: no one's going to like my kid because now they're smelly.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with my kid? And all this kind of stuff.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be that. It can just be
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: there's some problem hiding inside of this that we don't
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: know about, and we have to talk to our kid
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: mind it.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like that advice. I feel like parents
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: in general go like, to your kid is fifteen, but
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: now you're imagining them at twenty five. Right, You're like
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: seeing them living in like this apartment that's like filled
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: with garbage and they're not taking showers when you have
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: so many years before that's going to happen, right.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but our brains completely do that. We completely overreact
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and are like, oh my god, my kid, how are
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: they ever going to get married if they don't take
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: a shower? Who will put up with their stench? How
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: are they going to have friends? Like, no, wonder, my
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: kid doesn't have any friends? Like, they don't they smell bad?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: That's probably not what's going on. And they probably do
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: have friends at school that they talk to because.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Who also smell?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Who also smelled? Yeah, because like, let's not forget, COVID
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: happened and it impacted a lot of kids pretty significantly,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: and I can't ever stop saying that, Like I bring
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: it up all the time. Theoretically we're years away from that,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: but we're not, because these kids were a lot of
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: the kids that parents are thinking about right now. We're
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: at significant developmental stages when COVID hit and we're still
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: seeing echoes of that, and some of that might be, Hey,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you know what didn't matter so much during COVID for
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of kids and families personal hygiene, A lot
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of families didn't care because they weren't leaving the house.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: If your family is one of those families that personal
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: hygiene just went off the map and your kid was
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like in elementary school, middle school. Well, now that they're
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in middle school or high school, guess what, there's echoes.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: If your kid is struggling with personal hygiene, we might
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: need to recalibrate and have an actual conversation about this.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Instead of just saying, take a shower, we might need
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know how we didn't really prioritize
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: that stuff during COVID because we weren't seeing people. Well,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: now we're out and about and it's really important that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: we put on deodorant, take a shower, brush our teeth
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: because like, smell matters.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Again, So it seems like we've got kind of two
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: different areas of concern when it comes to hygiene, right,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: the physical health actual like taking care of yourself, and
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: one that has more to do with social norms and
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: which we've talked a lot about. Now, do you find
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: that it's more effective to lean into one of those
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: angles than the other? Like what for you has been
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: the best argument you can make that will get a
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: kid to want to take care of their body.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: It depends on the kid, and some of it is
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: talking to the kid about how they feel right, like, hey,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you went for three days without taking a shower, Like,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: you haven't taken a shower in three days? O, kid
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that I'm coaching in my imagination right now. I do
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: this with young adults too, and sometimes adults I just like,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: how do you feel? And usually they're like, I don't know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: kind of tired, kind of gross, kind of not so great.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, cool, here's what I want you
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to do at some point today or tomorrow morning. Take
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a shower. And then if it's an adult, I'm like,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I want you to text me about how you feel
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: after you take that shower. And if it's a kid,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, just talk to mom and dad, have them
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: write it down something like sometimes the kid writes it
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: down on their own, how do you feel? Right. I've
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: had kids brush their teeth and young adults too. I'm like,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: go brush your teeth and come back, and they're like,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I can't just do that. I can't just but it's
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: a waste of time because they're like on the clock
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: with me sort of it, and I'm like, but it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: it's not that big of a deal, Like it's not
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: going to take so long.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Because some of this, too, is with ADHD especially and
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: other executive functioning areas that are challenged, that time component,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that time awareness plays a prominent role, and often we
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: conflate emotion with time if we have executive functioning challenges.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: If we have a lot of anxiety but something, it
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: can feel like it's going to take longer than it
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: actually takes. And that happens with tooth brushing. If I've
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: got a kid that doesn't brush their teeth enough, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: they know it and they feel bad about it, but
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: they also don't really want to do it because for
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: some reason it doesn't appeal to them. Then I have
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: them brush their teeth and they're like, oh, that was fast. Yeah,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And even if it only takes thirty seconds, that's thirty
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: seconds more than you've been doing, right.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: Right, right, that's true.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Well, I want to talk a little bit about mostly
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: probably this is with older kids, but we know that
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: families often worry about their kids' hygiene and they're not
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: taking care of their bodies because they worry about sending
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: them to school and having kids say things right about
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: how they might smell or how they might look, and
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: so should we be telling our kids like, you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: you haven't showered in three days and I can tell
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: you I haven't used deodorant you know you might want to?
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Or should we not talk about this at all and
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: just let it play out? Like what is your advice
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: when it comes to kind of like the social pressures
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: of this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I think you have to know how to talk about it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It's not useful to not talk about problems. Problems don't
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: get solved if we don't talk about But problems also
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: can become conflict if we don't talk about it in
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a way that is kind and that is caring. So
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you can go over to your kid and give them
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a hug, right and go, hey kid, I love you,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: but you're getting a little ripe. Just heads up, man,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: you know, like you can do it that way depending
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: on your kid and what their sort of temperament is.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe joking about it will work, maybe it won't, And
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: it's an act of love to tell them so that
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: they can address it and they're not embarrassed out in
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the world. Better for them to be mildly embarrassed at
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: home than for them to maybe be bigger embarrassed out
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: in the world, or for them to not be embarrassed
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: but also not be engaged with socially. And if you
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: can have that conversation in an honest way, in a
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: gentle way, in a safe way, then you're good. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: this goes back to the whole idea of like, don't
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: discourage the stuff you want, right, don't be a jerk
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: about it, just be kind. So much of this is
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: just being kind to our kids kids.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Right, And I think even like sometimes just like modeling
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: it right, Like I've come home from a run and
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: I've been like, oh, like, I certainly like I'm sweaty today.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely going to take a shower.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: And maybe if you have a partner, maybe set it
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: up so it's not as embarrassing for you as a person,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: it's not as intense for you as a person. But
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: maybe you have a conversation your partner and you're like, hey,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go out for a run and I
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: need you to call me out on being smelly when
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I get back, and then I'll go take a shower.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Because that also normalizes being called out right, right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, don't. I don't think unfortunately I'm thinking about that scenario.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I actually don't have to have my
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: husband call it out because my teenage shot or will
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: without me.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Asking her to.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Well, and you also get the opportunity to model how
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: you receive that information that's right, and you when you
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: receive it right, you can say, oh, yeah, no, cool,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: thanks for letting me know. I'll go take a shower
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and receive it in a way that's sort of balanced
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and not overwhelmed and not having an emotional storm, just
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: like okay, cool, thanks.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. You know a lot of times we think, oh,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: a checklist will help our kids, right, like these are
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: the things you need to do before school, like brush
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: your teeth, brush your hair, blah blah blah. And sometimes
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: we associate checklists with like maybe some kind of rewards
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: system does that work?
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Or no, don't don't please please don't.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask this, please don't do that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: That is control. That's I'm trying to control my kid.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: A checklist. If they want it and are finding it
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: useful and supportive, then it's supportive. But a checklist that
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: is a demand is control, and ladies and gentlemen in
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the audience, if your kid smells, they are of the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: age where they want you to have less control, not
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: more control. They're starting to pull away. It's normal, it's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate. It's supposed to happen if you double down
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: on control when they are developmentally moving to have more
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of their own control and be less controlled by mom
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and dad. It is not a recipe for success. It
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: just isn't. So you can advise. You can provide some
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: strategies and skills, but a checklist where they can earn
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: money or something is not going to work. I was just.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: About to say that, like, if it is quote successful
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you need like a shower budget
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: to get this to happen.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And the other side of that, too, right, is if
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I have a checklist and I get a reward for
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: accomplishing the things on it, and teachers be listening to this,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: then if I don't get those things I failed. I
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: met with a school that we were talking about how
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the kid would come home every day and talk about
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: how he was a failure and he couldn't succeed in anything.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And the school had these checklists and they were like,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we never tell them he's a failure. We never say that.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, your checklists say that to him every day.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: That's what all the research says. And it's the same
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: thing for moms and dads and stuff at home, Like
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: if it's useful, great, If it's not, don't do it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: So is there such a thing as a hygiene late bloomer?
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: And if so, what would make the awareness or compliance
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: finally kick in.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's totally hygiene late bloomers. Like the peer pressure
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: is one thing that is going to make that kick in,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And most significantly, I am suddenly interested in boys or
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: girls like once in that romantic part of the world,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: brain kicks in. Once I start wanting to impress people
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Then the personal hygiene stuff kind
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of cascades from there where, Well, if I want to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: look good, I should probably brush my teeth.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: So there's still hope if our kids have not bloomed
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: in that direction, you're saying, still hope.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Brendon, this has all been really helpful and made
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: me think about some things in ways that I had
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: not thought of them before. So thank you, yes, thank.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: You so much.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Now I got to go make my shower playlist. Thanks
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: can email us at in It at understood dot org.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: And check out the show notes for this episode, where
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: This show is.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Brought to you by Understood dot org. Understood is a
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: differences like ADHD and dyslexia. Learn more at Understood dot org.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: In It is produced and edited by Julie Subern, with
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: additional production support from Cody Nelson and Alana Milner. Justin
• 26:58
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• 27:00
  Speaker 3: theme music. Brianna Barry is our production director. Neil Drumming
• 27:04
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• 27:06
  Speaker 4: From Understood dot Org. Our executive directors are Laura Key,
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Scott Cochier, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening and thanks
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: for always being in it with us.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, so much great wisdom. There. That was
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: an episode of in It Raising Kids who Learn Differently.
• 27:38
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