Latest / Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease / 136 // Are Superfoods Sabotaging Your Thyroid? Sally K. Norton Explains Oxalates
Transcript
- 0:00Welcome to episode 136 of the Health with Hashimoto's podcast. I'm Esther.
- 0:05I'm a registered nurse, and every week I help you find simple and sustainable
- 0:09ways to take charge of your health.
- 0:11Because with Hashimoto's, your whole person matters.
- 0:15Body, mind, spirit, diet, environment, all of it.
- 0:19And today I've got something really special for you. I have an interview with
- 0:22Sally K. Norton. She is the author of the book Toxic Superfoods.
- 0:27A heads up, this episode does run a little bit longer than usual,
- 0:30because I wanted to give you really good insights.
- 0:34I wanted to help you learn what are oxalates, what do they do in your body,
- 0:39how do they relate to your thyroid and autoimmunity, and most of all,
- 0:43empower you with what can you do with this information.
- 0:46So it did take, I think we ran about a half an hour, maybe 40 minutes,
- 0:51and I know you are going to get so much out of this interview.
- 0:56Head down to the show notes where you can find a link to her book.
- 1:00In the video of the podcast, which is on my website and on YouTube,
- 1:05you can actually see us talk to each other.
- 1:08And towards the end, she will hold up a book.
- 1:11It's the companion guide to the actual book.
- 1:15And she describes the difference between the two and why you might want the
- 1:19companion guide or why you might want the book or both.
- 1:23I have the book, I have the audio book, and I will be getting the companion
- 1:26guide because it looked so useful.
- 1:29Whether you have had Hashimoto's for years and years, or you're just trying
- 1:33to figure things out right now, my goal is always to empower you with ideas
- 1:37that you can use without overwhelm.
- 1:39So with no further ado, here is the interview with Sally K. Norton.
- 1:45All right, welcome back to another episode of Health with Hashimoto's.
- 1:48I am so excited for you to listen to this episode.
- 1:51I have a special guest, and we are talking about oxalates. So I heard about
- 1:57this book, Toxic Superfoods, on another podcast listening to an interview,
- 2:02and now I get to interview the author, Sally K.
- 2:05Norton. So let me tell you a little bit about her and then we'll get into her story.
- 2:09Sally is a leading expert on dietary oxalates. Don't worry, she's going to tell you what they are.
- 2:15And she has her nutritional science degree from Cornell University and a master's
- 2:20in public health from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
- 2:24So she is not just like spouting anything from the top of her head. She is researched.
- 2:29She has credibility. She really knows what she's talking about.
- 2:33For over 30 years, she's been helping people with health and wellness,
- 2:37and she specializes now in oxalates-aware eating, and she's going to tell us
- 2:42why that is so important.
- 2:44So Sally, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
- 2:48Can you tell us a little bit about your story? Obviously, you were interested
- 2:52in nutrition, in health.
- 2:54What got you interested in oxalates? And then, of course, what are they?
- 2:58Well, in school, oxalates are covered just to hear a paragraph here and there in your textbooks.
- 3:03And, you know, those people who get kidney stones or have kidney problems need
- 3:06that low oxalate diet and you're done. You know everything you need to know.
- 3:09Well, that is a just big black hole for you to fall into, which is what happened to me.
- 3:15My unawareness of oxalate's effect on our physiology and that we're eating enough
- 3:21of it to affect your health landed me in a life of struggle.
- 3:25And I realize now both thyroid issues and oxalate issues, which are intimately
- 3:30connected, have been affecting my life since before I was even conceived.
- 3:35Well, yeah, my mom had three miscarriages.
- 3:39She had a baby, two miscarriages, a baby, a miscarriage. Her pregnancy with
- 3:43me was declared a miscarriage.
- 3:46And it turned out it was, of course, because her thyroid level was low.
- 3:51Wow. Because they just really didn't diagnose that back in the 60s and late
- 3:5550s when she was starting to have her family.
- 3:58And I'm now suspecting that my mother was suffering from oxalate-related thyroid damage.
- 4:07Oxalate is this tiny little chemical that plants make that's in a lot of popular
- 4:11foods. And my family, my mom grew up in the Depression era, and they relied
- 4:15on garden greens like bee greens and chard.
- 4:19And they had rhubarb and made rhubarb desserts, especially rhubarb crisps,
- 4:24which is delicious. I grew up on that. I loved that when it was in season.
- 4:27And those foods are really high in oxalic acid.
- 4:30So oxalic acid is a tiny little two-carbon molecule that has a charge on it
- 4:35and can drop another proton and get another negative charge.
- 4:38So it's a strongly charged, uber tiny little acid, oxalic acid,
- 4:44and it grabs minerals and it connects with things like calcium.
- 4:47And that's its connection with kidney stones. You see, you have to pee out this acid.
- 4:52You eat it. It gets into your bloodstream, moves through your liver,
- 4:56your heart, your lungs, your veins, your arteries, everything.
- 4:58And then your kidneys have to get it out. And if you have a particular kind
- 5:03of difficulty handling all this oxalate in your diet, you can end up with kidney stones.
- 5:09Or if you're just really overdoing the oxalates on and on and on,
- 5:13you will eventually get kidney stones. But a lot of us, we don't get the kidney stones.
- 5:17But this calcium oxalate that forms in nature, plants use it to its advantage.
- 5:22Plants not only make oxalic acid that we're eating, but they also build calcium
- 5:26oxalate crystals specifically for lots of metabolic purposes and self-defense.
- 5:32So they'll make these double-pointed toothpick spears that are super uber tiny
- 5:37that can puncture cells too deep.
- 5:40They're literally designed as baited arrows to puncture your membranes and to
- 5:46make it hard for insects to chew on them.
- 5:48And they make big blocks and put them in their bark.
- 5:51You know, something like cinnamon will have blocks uber to us,
- 5:54small, but kind of big if you're a burrowing beetle.
- 5:57Like a little not good to chew on. So nature makes oxalic acid.
- 6:02Plants will build it up as calcium oxalate crystals.
- 6:05You will eat oxalic acid and calcium oxalate crystals both in these foods that
- 6:10include not just the chard, beet greens, rhubarb, and spinach.
- 6:18Spinach and nuts, almonds, almond milk, cashews, peanuts, which we eat a lot
- 6:24of. we tend to potatoes, the big baking potatoes that we make French fries and
- 6:28tater tots out of, and then beets themselves.
- 6:31That's, you know, sweet potatoes. This is all like baby foods.
- 6:35You know, when you're one, you get your chocolate cake and then you start eating
- 6:39nuts and, you know, then you go all gluten-free or something and you're adding
- 6:44in quinoa and these gluten-free products have high oxalate ingredients.
- 6:49So if you start having health problems and you go into like Dairy-free,
- 6:53that's another problem because you need the calcium,
- 6:57high-calcium diet to help you manage this thing that grabs calcium because this
- 7:02thing that grabs calcium is sucking you dry of calcium.
- 7:06And so you've got a little bit of calcium ions in your bloodstream,
- 7:09and oxalate gets in there and can start grabbing the calcium out of your blood,
- 7:15and it can start causing inflammation, which causes acidity.
- 7:19So the body will start pulling calcium and minerals out of the blood to keep
- 7:24your pH good and to keep your calcium levels right in the blood.
- 7:27So you can be, you know, working on weak bones, messing up your growth.
- 7:33If you're a baby and you get calcium deficiency and iron deficiency and other
- 7:38mineral deficiencies because your mom's on a high-oxalate diet or feeding you
- 7:41high-oxalate foods, it's going to affect your growth,
- 7:45your weight gain, the size of your body. It's going to affect lots of things.
- 7:50So we eat oxalic acid and foods we trust and love have no idea we're doing this.
- 7:57So you mentioned oxalate-aware eating.
- 7:59If you don't know what you don't know, you have no idea that food that is reported
- 8:04to be healthy actually has problematic oxalic acid and oxalate crystals in it.
- 8:10So the oxalic acid is the part that gets into your bloodstream and starts messing
- 8:15with your electrolytes and causing your poor liver has to use up glutathione
- 8:19because it's causing a lot of cell damage and oxidative stress,
- 8:23which means not enough of your own inherent glutathione thion is being made
- 8:27to keep up with the damage that's happening.
- 8:29And then that brings in inflammation and it wears you out.
- 8:33All kinds of tissues wear out, including your circulatory white blood cells.
- 8:38So I didn't know any of this stuff, even though I went to Cornell for nutrition.
- 8:42And you know, being a health geek, I was a vegetarian for eight years and then a vegan for eight years.
- 8:47And none of that was working well for me, but I couldn't admit it.
- 8:50I wouldn't ever imagine And my perfect diet had anything to do with the fact
- 8:54that I had no energy, and I was just dragging mentally,
- 8:57physically, as everything was an effort, and I was having arthritis and back
- 9:01problems, and it just went on and on.
- 9:04I had foot problems in college. I couldn't walk properly. I ended up needing
- 9:09painkillers, crutches, wheelchairs.
- 9:12I had to get permission to drive on campus at Cornell.
- 9:15Had surgery, didn't recover well from it. I went for pretty much 30 years with imperfect feet.
- 9:21I mean, I got past the painkillers and the crutches after about seven or eight
- 9:25years, but continued to be unable to go barefoot or to run or do sports or any
- 9:31of that until I turned 50.
- 9:33Right before I turned 50, I had made this connection between arthritis and oxalates.
- 9:40And then I got real surprise after I really got serious about changing my diet and getting the.