Latest / Art of the Question / Do Animals Know Right from Wrong? - Dr. Jessica Pierce - #47
Transcript
- Julius Moorman: there's evolutionary continuity and even saying that other species exhibit behaviors that we kind of consider like the the pinnacle of being a civilized person doesn't threaten humans or human uniqueness to me. To me it highlights it like the ways in which we're different from other animals are really interesting too. And The fact that we use language to communicate norms and norm violations and the complexity of our ideas about fairness and ⁓ and empathy are are really interesting and and unique. ⁓ and that I don't find that threatening at all. Yeah I I think part of the reason might also be because it's sometimes pretty uncomfortable if we look at ⁓ the biological drivers that we have, the primal instincts that we that we have, differences, just differences between men, women, ⁓ strong, weak, large, small. ⁓ it's it's not always what we would like it to be. If if we from a modern perspective of equality and and our sense of justice, sometimes these primal drivers that we have and and and these these differences and and us trying to survive. It's just not very pretty and it doesn't really align with the the ethical beings that we pretend to be. So I think it's it's it's it it I I'm not exactly sure I can really put my ⁓ finger on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's part of it. And that it would just be easier to To say, hey, we are different from animals. And because we are different from animals, we can now pretend that ⁓ there's literally zero difference between any entire human on on Earth and and and we are all exactly the same. I think that might be part of it. I think so too. ⁓ and I think another thing that might be going on here as well in the kind of suppression of ideas about animal emotion, animal sentience, animal morality is that we we live in a fairly violent relationship with other animals. And if we recognize that animals are feeling empathic creatures who who feel grief, who suffer loss, who f have fear, who care about their families, then it can make our behavior feel uncomfortable. And ⁓ change is uncomfortable for people. So thinking about changing how we interact with animals is scary too. ⁓ but I do think su suppressing writing off animals ⁓ may be easier than trying to change our own behavior. ⁓ not the moral path, but easier. Yeah, I agree. Like it's so much easier to eat a steak if ⁓ the cow is not a moral entity. Right. Yeah. It it it it comes ⁓ it it's just it introduces a a whole set of ⁓ problems and and uncomfortable ⁓ feelings if we start to to view animals as ⁓ as such. Yeah. Is is there is there anything ⁓ that you think we haven't touched on that is ⁓ important to to still discuss while while we're on the topic? I don't know. We've been over a lot of material. I don't think so. I don't I feel like we've we've done a good canvassing of some of the main Yeah. ⁓ moral and scientific questions and Yeah, I I really ⁓ wanna say I appreciate you having me on and having this conversation because it is it can be uncomfortable. ⁓ and it's also really interesting. And yeah, I hope that I hope that it sparked curiosity in your listeners. Yeah, well, I'm I'm I'm sure that it did in ⁓ in me. ⁓ if I if I speak for myself, ⁓ this was incredibly interesting. So Yeah, I really wanna thank you for for taking the time to to have ⁓ the discussion ⁓ with me. It was incredibly interesting. If people want to to keep up with ⁓ future books, if they wanna buy existing books, if they wanna follow you or some of the papers you are ⁓ writing on the regular, ⁓ what is the best place for people to go? So ⁓ my website is a good ⁓ landing spot. It's just jessica pierce.net. ⁓ I have a psychology today blog called All Dogs Go to Heaven. ⁓ I haven't been super active with it the last couple of years, so most of this stuff is older, but still there. And ⁓ my books are easy to find on Amazon and whatnot. Yeah, just Perfect. Yeah, I'll make sure to put everything ⁓ in the in the show notes. And not ⁓ I'm not not on social media at all because it's political. Our I mean ⁓ it doesn't need any ⁓ any excuse. ⁓ good for you. No, yeah. I mean it's ⁓ it's it's ⁓ not always ⁓ it's a great ⁓ not always a great environment and yeah not always ⁓ best My publisher does not appreciate my absence from social media, but too bad. Too bad. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for for ⁓ for ⁓ meeting with me today. Like I said, I I really appreciate you. ⁓ this was incredibly interesting. And yeah, ⁓ I feel maybe in the future when we ⁓ when there's both some new maybe science out there, ⁓ some new thoughts that have entered ⁓ into my ⁓ my mind we can ⁓ we can run it back someday. Sounds good. Awesome. Well thank you so much, Jessica.