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BONUS EPISODE: Jamie Dimon Speaks To Bloomberg · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:00
Speaker 1: It's going to get worse before it gets better. That's
0:03
Speaker 1: according to JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Diamond, but he's
0:07
Speaker 1: not talking about the economy. Instead, Diamond is warning of
0:10
Speaker 1: overregulation in the banking industry in the wake of several
0:14
Speaker 1: regional bank failures. It's one of the topics Diamond covered
0:17
Speaker 1: when he joined Bloomberg's Francine Laqua and Paris for a
0:20
Speaker 1: wide ranging discussion. They touched on everything from regional banks
0:23
Speaker 1: to China and the debt ceiling. Let's go to that
0:27
Speaker 1: conversation right now.
0:29
Speaker 2: Debt ceiling or banking turmoil? What are you most worried about?
0:32
Speaker 3: You'd be here. Well, I think the debt sh thing
0:36
Speaker 3: is potentially catastrophe. Yeah, so that's a whole different issue.
0:39
Speaker 3: Hopefully won't happen. You know, the banking crisis, I still
0:42
Speaker 3: believe will kind of sort its way through and it's
0:45
Speaker 3: not anything like eight or nine. Only a couple of
0:48
Speaker 3: people off size with all these various things which you
0:50
Speaker 3: knew about. So hopefully you know it's getting near the
0:53
Speaker 3: tail end of that.
0:54
Speaker 2: But if you're Janet Yellen right now, what would you
0:56
Speaker 2: do differently?
0:57
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think we need to finish the bank.
1:00
Speaker 3: I think we've been we've had uncertain policy on mergers.
1:03
Speaker 3: This first Arizon deal. I think we have to assume
1:05
Speaker 3: they'll be a little bit more so, you know, whatever
1:07
Speaker 3: the FD I see, the OCC the Federal Reserve, you know,
1:10
Speaker 3: whatever they need to do to uh make it better,
1:14
Speaker 3: they should do. Be thoughtful, be very forward looking. You
1:17
Speaker 3: not be surprised constantly because some of these things have
1:20
Speaker 3: been known about for quite a while. And so we've
1:22
Speaker 3: handled three SBB signature first Republic and so Yes, but
1:29
Speaker 3: I think it's very important. The regional banks who I've
1:32
Speaker 3: been speaking to like every day for the last week,
1:34
Speaker 3: they're quite strong. You know, they're quite worried because of
1:37
Speaker 3: the run and deposits all that, but the financial results
1:40
Speaker 3: are good. The financial results are gonna be good, Okay
1:42
Speaker 3: next quarter. You know, they're earning money. They've got a
1:45
Speaker 3: very good clientele, very diversified. Uh uh, and they're they're
1:49
Speaker 3: quite strong.
1:50
Speaker 2: Jemmy for like a comprehensive solution. So if you're asking
1:52
Speaker 2: Jennet Young to get the job done, what does that
1:54
Speaker 2: look like that solution?
1:55
Speaker 3: Asking for solution? Why not just be prepared for problem.
2:00
Speaker 3: There's no we don't need a copy of solution.
2:02
Speaker 2: What do we need right now? Do we regulators to
2:06
Speaker 2: look at short sellers of banks?
2:08
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, like look, my folks would tell me
2:10
Speaker 3: that that's not the problem the short selling ban. If
2:13
Speaker 3: you actually analyze stocks and short sales, it doesn't seem
2:16
Speaker 3: to that big a deal. I think they may partially
2:18
Speaker 3: be wrong, because, as you know, some people are unscrupulous
2:22
Speaker 3: and they use other means to go short. I think
2:24
Speaker 3: that if you look at the detail, the SEC has
2:27
Speaker 3: the enforcement capability to look at what people are doing
2:31
Speaker 3: by name in options, derivatives, short sales, and they should
2:35
Speaker 3: go if someone's doing anything wrong, people are in collusion,
2:38
Speaker 3: or people going short and then making a tweet about
2:41
Speaker 3: a bank, they should go after them and vigorously, and
2:43
Speaker 3: they should be punished to the full extental law allows it.
2:46
Speaker 3: So I think it's possible is taking place. We have
2:48
Speaker 3: no evidence of it, but you know, my experience in
2:50
Speaker 3: life has been don't assume too much.
2:52
Speaker 2: Do you think that they're looking into it?
2:54
Speaker 3: I hope so. I don't know.
2:57
Speaker 2: When you look at some of the position of JP
2:59
Speaker 2: mor Agan, of course you didn't really buy any long
3:01
Speaker 2: dated bonds, and at the time, a lot of people said, look,
3:03
Speaker 2: stop boarding cash. Do you think regulators and investors had
3:07
Speaker 2: pushed some of these banks to take unwarranted risk?
3:11
Speaker 3: Yes, I do, but let's be clear the people to blame,
3:14
Speaker 3: or the bank CEOs and the bank boards and things
3:17
Speaker 3: like that. Having said that, I think there would be
3:19
Speaker 3: a humility on the part of regulators that the Federal
3:23
Speaker 3: Reserve itself never forecast insurratees going off. Not one Fed
3:27
Speaker 3: governor forecast it. And whether you forecast it or not,
3:30
Speaker 3: you should be stressed testing people for it. Their stress
3:33
Speaker 3: tests always had low rates. We always knew about uninsured deposits.
3:37
Speaker 3: And there were huge incentives that banks to put securities
3:40
Speaker 3: in health and maturity, lower capital requirements, huge incentives own treasuries,
3:45
Speaker 3: lower capital acquirements, and they counted for liquidity. And I'm
3:48
Speaker 3: hoping all that guests looked at and they should look
3:50
Speaker 3: at and say, oh, okay, we're a little bit part
3:52
Speaker 3: of the problem, as opposed to just pointing fingers.
3:55
Speaker 2: So this is what not a regulation problem, it's a
3:57
Speaker 2: supervision problem.
3:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little bit of both. They become very related.
4:02
Speaker 3: I mean, supervisors, look at are you doing the right
4:06
Speaker 3: thing by regulations? And so, and like even the stress tests.
4:09
Speaker 3: I've always thought that you know, when you have one
4:11
Speaker 3: stress test and you have a company completely focused on
4:14
Speaker 3: that for three months, you know, does it all people
4:17
Speaker 3: have a false sense of security that all these other
4:19
Speaker 3: things aren't going to happen. And all these other things
4:21
Speaker 3: in history always happen, and so, you know, I think
4:23
Speaker 3: it was a little bit of a mistake. Have one
4:25
Speaker 3: stress test. I'm not asking to do many at this
4:28
Speaker 3: level of detail, but you know, our stress test is
4:30
Speaker 3: two hundred thousand pages long. Do you think that last
4:32
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand pages added value? And my view is
4:35
Speaker 3: it did not.
4:36
Speaker 2: Do you think? But things will change because of this?
4:38
Speaker 2: Is this like a catalyst?
4:39
Speaker 3: We always gonna get worse for banks? I think that
4:41
Speaker 3: people they're just more regulations and more rules and more requirements.
4:45
Speaker 3: I hope they do it very thoughtfully, because you know,
4:48
Speaker 3: if you really love the community banks, the regional banks,
4:51
Speaker 3: we're the biggest banks of those folks. But you know,
4:54
Speaker 3: if you overdo certain rules, requirements, regulations. You know, some
4:57
Speaker 3: of these community banks tell me to have more compl
5:00
Speaker 3: cions people, the loan officers, you know, and so at
5:02
Speaker 3: one point you make it harder for them to new business.
5:04
Speaker 3: There are already hundreds of rules in place, and in
5:07
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, it's to mix the rules. If
5:09
Speaker 3: you're gonna change the liquidity and maybe not capital. If
5:11
Speaker 3: you can change capital and maybe not liquidity. If you're
5:13
Speaker 3: gonna add t LAC, then maybe you should do something
5:15
Speaker 3: with deposit insurance. They should. They should sit down and
5:18
Speaker 3: have a very thoughtful conversation about what those things are
5:21
Speaker 3: and what we want the outcome to be. If you
5:23
Speaker 3: look at the present outcome, a lot of things are
5:25
Speaker 3: leaving banks and they should you know, I'm not and
5:28
Speaker 3: if that's what they want, so be it. But that
5:29
Speaker 3: should be done with the forethought. That should not be
5:31
Speaker 3: done because you just putting rules and regulations in place
5:34
Speaker 3: and you don't know the consequences. The mortgage business, for example,
5:37
Speaker 3: is you know, largely not largely eighty percent out of
5:40
Speaker 3: banks today, and just be careful about what you what
5:42
Speaker 3: you wish for.
5:43
Speaker 2: So you bought First Republic, you've had I imagine how
5:46
Speaker 2: a good look at what's inside it? What did you
5:47
Speaker 2: find out?
5:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, we had to go look before we bought it.
5:51
Speaker 2: Okay, that's reassuring.
5:52
Speaker 3: But anything that you sign up eight hundred people working
5:54
Speaker 3: around the clock for a long time to look at
5:57
Speaker 3: something like that, and in reality, look, they did something
6:00
Speaker 3: really well. Like if you touch their customers, I've getten
6:02
Speaker 3: calls and emails and great great culture, great customers and
6:06
Speaker 3: things like that. Their credit is kind of pristine. You know,
6:10
Speaker 3: that's good. So of course we marked all the market
6:12
Speaker 3: and roll in very good shape, and we've had all
6:13
Speaker 3: the trade exposure together. We've got thousands of people now
6:17
Speaker 3: going out learning about what their best is. We want
6:20
Speaker 3: the best of both, about the kind of coming that
6:21
Speaker 3: comes in our highway, our way or the highway, and
6:24
Speaker 3: so there's no surprise there. You know, it's it had
6:27
Speaker 3: to make sense for shareholders. But you know this notion,
6:30
Speaker 3: this notion that it was unbelievad in it was a
6:32
Speaker 3: nice thing for shows. That's my I have to do that.
6:35
Speaker 3: But we also really did it to assimilate the bank
6:38
Speaker 3: in a way that's very safe for the system and
6:40
Speaker 3: didn't cost unassured deposits, didn't cost the ft, it costs
6:44
Speaker 3: the FDA C as little as possible. But I also
6:46
Speaker 3: want to point out I'd be fine if they want
6:48
Speaker 3: to change the rules a little bit to make it
6:49
Speaker 3: easier for a regional bank to buy a big bank.
6:52
Speaker 3: And the other thing about big banks, which again is
6:54
Speaker 3: now I know, I know. But the thing about big banks,
6:56
Speaker 3: we need healthy big banks. We have the best banking
6:59
Speaker 3: system in the world, you know, and you want that
7:01
Speaker 3: very big. But but not banks are becoming smaller or
7:04
Speaker 3: smaller as a part of the global system. So when
7:07
Speaker 3: they look at banks, they say, oh, it's big. But when
7:09
Speaker 3: you look at the banking system, to the system mortgage
7:12
Speaker 3: of the left, a lot of private credits left, certain
7:14
Speaker 3: trading functions of the left, a lot of things are
7:16
Speaker 3: going to leave. You have Apple, you have the neo banks,
7:19
Speaker 3: you have you better be a little more thoughtful about
7:21
Speaker 3: when you say what you mean banking per se and so.
7:25
Speaker 2: But the US, the Americans, should not fear too much
7:28
Speaker 2: finance consolidation in your hands.
7:31
Speaker 3: No, because you know, most of our size accrues to
7:33
Speaker 3: our clients. So if you look at you know we
7:36
Speaker 3: do most large small banks can't do. We do like
7:39
Speaker 3: banking large corporations of fifty countries around the world to
7:42
Speaker 3: move ten trillion dollars a day. They you know, it's hard.
7:44
Speaker 3: So these are these are big, complex things. We're not
7:47
Speaker 3: big and complex. We want to be. We're big and
7:49
Speaker 3: complex because the pee we serve at bigger compon. We
7:52
Speaker 3: bank countries, the World Bank. You know, we do a
7:55
Speaker 3: lot of things, and yes we also bank consumers in the
7:58
Speaker 3: United States. So, but I want the banks to thrive.
8:01
Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, we want to do everything
8:02
Speaker 3: kind of help them. We didn't want this to happen.
8:05
Speaker 3: We didn't cause to happen. The second happened, we knew
8:08
Speaker 3: it was bad for old banks.
8:09
Speaker 2: Are you too big to fail?
8:12
Speaker 3: I don't know what that word means anymore. I mean,
8:14
Speaker 3: we're not going to fail, and I don't know what
8:16
Speaker 3: that means. But we certainly didn't mean it to be
8:18
Speaker 3: an advantage. Like so, you know, we've asked all our
8:21
Speaker 3: people when this crisis happened. I don't want anyone so
8:24
Speaker 3: listing any client or any bank or from any of
8:27
Speaker 3: the any bank's regional bank or community bank, et cetera.
8:30
Speaker 2: So is there anything else that you that you'd be buying.
8:33
Speaker 2: I mean some of the smaller banks fault, you know,
8:35
Speaker 2: fun that's it.
8:36
Speaker 3: No, I mean, we're gonna have a lot of blowback
8:38
Speaker 3: and having bought this one, but it was the right thing.
8:40
Speaker 3: To do, you know, but we'll get the blowback. But again,
8:43
Speaker 3: my job is this people at this thing. They always
8:45
Speaker 3: look at like the financial deal. Forget the financial deal.
8:49
Speaker 3: Eight hundred people working around the clock. Ten thousand people
8:52
Speaker 3: deployed now to consolidate systems, risk fraud, credit payments, branches,
8:57
Speaker 3: real estate vendors, technology. It's a lot of work, you know,
9:00
Speaker 3: and it just tracks us from those other things. And
9:03
Speaker 3: so you know, like I said, we did it. It
9:05
Speaker 3: was margely benefits for shareholders, it was good for the system.
9:08
Speaker 3: But and you know, we got to now we have
9:10
Speaker 3: to be prepared for the other side of that mountain.
9:12
Speaker 2: How worried are you about the dead ceiling? So Donald Trump,
9:14
Speaker 2: yesterre in a town halicy and na did not seem
9:17
Speaker 2: too worried and too actually told Republicans to stick to
9:19
Speaker 2: their guns.
9:19
Speaker 3: It's one more thing he does know very much about.
9:24
Speaker 3: It may be put in two categories. One is actual default.
9:28
Speaker 3: That is potentially catastrophic. And you can go through a
9:32
Speaker 3: million ways, but everyone, anyone's anyone knows that's potentially catastrophic.
9:37
Speaker 3: And I don't think it's going to happen because it
9:38
Speaker 3: gets catastrophic and the closer you get to it, you
9:40
Speaker 3: will have panic. And so the closer you get you
9:43
Speaker 3: have markets get volatile. Maybe there's Doc mar go down
9:46
Speaker 3: the treasury. Markets will have for their own problems. It's amazing.
9:49
Speaker 3: You already have certain T bills it's trading three percent
9:52
Speaker 3: and right next to them five percent. This is not good.
9:55
Speaker 3: And people just remember the American financial system is the
9:58
Speaker 3: foundation to the to the global economic system. And so
10:02
Speaker 3: and the closer we get more panic, we might get downgraded.
10:04
Speaker 3: The last time were downgrade, we had like sixty five
10:07
Speaker 3: or seventy percent debt to GDP. Now it's one hundred
10:10
Speaker 3: and five. Now our defenits are two or three times
10:12
Speaker 3: that that we had back then. So you know, we
10:15
Speaker 3: better be very careful. And I wish we didn't get
10:18
Speaker 3: there at all. I'm respectful of both sides who you know,
10:21
Speaker 3: one side wants to use it the makeup for we've
10:23
Speaker 3: got jammed down their throats, you know. And I would
10:25
Speaker 3: love to get rid of the debt ceiling thing, but
10:27
Speaker 3: please negotiate a deal.
10:29
Speaker 2: Do you think that it'll be at the end of
10:30
Speaker 2: the day of the markets that will spur a deal
10:33
Speaker 2: that we have to get to the point where there's
10:34
Speaker 2: where there's panic.
10:35
Speaker 3: It's a really bad idea because panic becomes something that
10:39
Speaker 3: is not good and it could affect other markets around
10:42
Speaker 3: the world. But yes, at the end of the day,
10:44
Speaker 3: if it gets to that panic point, people have to react,
10:47
Speaker 3: and we've seen that before. Another thing about markets is
10:50
Speaker 3: always remember panic is the one thing that scares people
10:53
Speaker 3: like they take irrational decisions. I remember even in eight
10:57
Speaker 3: people are selling certain securities at twenty percent of what
11:01
Speaker 3: they would be worth if we had a great depression.
11:05
Speaker 3: But they were like, I want out, I want cash.
11:07
Speaker 3: I'm not betting my my family's money on this and
11:10
Speaker 3: my company's money. People will panic, and again we got
11:13
Speaker 3: to be very careful about getting closer situation that causes that.
11:16
Speaker 2: Do you get a call from Jennet yelling about this.
11:18
Speaker 3: I'm not going to talk about personal calls I'm getting
11:20
Speaker 3: We've all spoken about that's young, I mean everyone, that's
11:23
Speaker 3: that's everyone's no for big banks.
11:25
Speaker 2: Are you ready? Actually, how do you prepare for possible?
11:29
Speaker 3: We have a group of people who are very smart.
11:32
Speaker 3: We're looking at again, it's very unfortunate, it's time consuming.
11:36
Speaker 3: Hopefully it won't happen, but it affects contracts, collateral, clearing
11:40
Speaker 3: houses clients and affects clients differently around the world. You
11:44
Speaker 3: have to then anticipate what people are going to do,
11:46
Speaker 3: which is very different than the legality of it. And
11:49
Speaker 3: you know, and the closer we get, the more those
11:52
Speaker 3: kind of that war room will start. Now it's taking
11:53
Speaker 3: place once a week, but my guess is sometimes called
11:57
Speaker 3: May twenty. First it'll be every day, then it'll be
12:00
Speaker 3: three times a day, and then there'll be much more
12:03
Speaker 3: conversations with clients. But what they need to do to
12:05
Speaker 3: help get them through it and things like that. It's
12:08
Speaker 3: very unfortunate. It should never happen this way.
12:11
Speaker 2: Fortress Diamond is always about the balance sheet. Should there
12:13
Speaker 2: be a special commission looking at debts in the US
12:17
Speaker 2: that you should run?
12:19
Speaker 3: Oh god no, why not? I don't want to.
12:23
Speaker 2: On China, they went after tech, they're looking now at finance.
12:27
Speaker 2: What kind of message does it tell companies that want
12:30
Speaker 2: to do business there?
12:32
Speaker 3: Well, I think we say they're looking at finance. It's
12:33
Speaker 3: been very limited. They've been very much more careful about
12:37
Speaker 3: touching the financial system. Who we're outsiders. But look, this
12:42
Speaker 3: is a serious subject and anything that relates to national security.
12:45
Speaker 3: I'm a patriot first, and I'm going to salute my government,
12:48
Speaker 3: So put that, but put that aside. What the government
12:51
Speaker 3: should do and it wants to do, and is now
12:53
Speaker 3: say they are going to do, is have conversations. They're
12:55
Speaker 3: gonna be tough, but they should be thoughtful. Certain things
12:58
Speaker 3: are really national security, certain things are not, you know,
13:02
Speaker 3: And we shouldn't confuse the two American shine of a
13:05
Speaker 3: lot of common interest climate, nuclear pliferation, anti terrorism, and
13:09
Speaker 3: global stability, you know, And we have differences. You know.
13:13
Speaker 3: We're capitalists, they're not, you know, And it's okay, we
13:16
Speaker 3: could sort that out. But we need to keep the
13:18
Speaker 3: Western alliances together, not just around war and Ukraine, but
13:22
Speaker 3: around strategic economic reladerships, including trade, including trade. We can't
13:28
Speaker 3: take trade of the table every time we talk to
13:30
Speaker 3: you know, Europe or Asian stuff like that. So I
13:32
Speaker 3: would go back into TPP. I would surround the world.
13:35
Speaker 3: I'd want to keep the world safe for democracy, and
13:39
Speaker 3: i'd want to have open markets, particularly Europe. And I
13:41
Speaker 3: mean I obvious here last time is when we passed Iraq.
13:44
Speaker 3: A lot of great things that act, but there are
13:46
Speaker 3: things I don't like, like too much social engineering inside
13:49
Speaker 3: of it, but also a pistol off all of our
13:51
Speaker 3: allies putting on the China side.
13:52
Speaker 2: So they if they start doing more noise on finance,
13:55
Speaker 2: does that hurt Chinese growth?
13:57
Speaker 3: Like probably, I think you've already seen it's not trade,
14:02
Speaker 3: but you've seen investment going both ways coming down, and
14:07
Speaker 3: that's okay. In the short run and the long run.
14:09
Speaker 3: We should say what And the government's got to decide.
14:12
Speaker 3: This is not gonna be business companies decide, nor should they.
14:15
Speaker 3: So when Congress criticizes business sometimes there may be truth
14:19
Speaker 3: to that. They have to decide what is okay, what's
14:22
Speaker 3: not okay? What do they want? What's security? And that's
14:25
Speaker 3: around trade, that's around investment, and that's around sharing.
14:27
Speaker 2: IP I give you a million pounds or maybe you
14:29
Speaker 2: take it, you know, your own million pounds. Where'd you
14:31
Speaker 2: invest in?
14:32
Speaker 3: Organ I wouldn't. I wouldn't buy sovereign dead anywhere. Why
14:38
Speaker 3: I think there's too much The amount of fiscal stimus
14:43
Speaker 3: took place and still surging through the system, the amount
14:45
Speaker 3: of qi these were extraordinary numbers, and not just in
14:49
Speaker 3: the US, but in Europe and in other parts of
14:51
Speaker 3: the world. When I say extraordinary, I mean extraordinary, and
14:54
Speaker 3: therefore I think there's a chance you have more inflation
14:57
Speaker 3: than people think. So while the Fed control short ray,
15:00
Speaker 3: they don't completely control longer rates, and then you could
15:03
Speaker 3: see longer rates ticking up because of higher inflation, and
15:07
Speaker 3: even if there's a mild recession, they continue to tick up.
15:09
Speaker 3: You know a lot of us experience that in the
15:11
Speaker 3: seventies and eighties, and I would be a little worried
15:13
Speaker 3: about that. So rates are kind of low, spreads are
15:15
Speaker 3: still kind of low.
15:15
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're not putting them in suffer, and where
15:17
Speaker 2: are you putting that million?
15:19
Speaker 3: I'm central banks.
15:22
Speaker 2: For stability. If you look at fragmentation, I mean, the
15:25
Speaker 2: world seems a little bit odd like equities are doing
15:27
Speaker 2: one thing, but we keep on being told there's a recession.
15:30
Speaker 2: Why is there this massive adusyncrasy.
15:33
Speaker 3: That's the contradiction. There's still consumers in America job unemployed
15:38
Speaker 3: three point five percent. Home prizes have gone up for
15:41
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen years. Stock prize has gone in for
15:44
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen years. They have a trillion dollars more
15:46
Speaker 3: in their checking accounts. They're spending that money. You see
15:49
Speaker 3: in travel, you see in restaurants, you see it, and
15:52
Speaker 3: you've been around here and you see in hotels, you
15:54
Speaker 3: see it. That's all good, But the excess money's being
15:56
Speaker 3: spent down. So the bite of that is going to
15:59
Speaker 3: happen this year early next year. And the bite of
16:02
Speaker 3: QT hasn't happened yet. So if you have higher inflation,
16:05
Speaker 3: so I think it's a reasonable thing to say those
16:07
Speaker 3: things are coming to fruition. Maybe sometime in the end
16:10
Speaker 3: of the year. We don't know the effect of that,
16:13
Speaker 3: you know, if there's I mean I would take a
16:14
Speaker 3: mild recession happily. Right now. I am far more concerned
16:17
Speaker 3: about geopolitics Ukraine, trade, you know, Russia, our relations with China, etc.
16:25
Speaker 3: And I always have to mind all of our public
16:28
Speaker 3: America has a seventy five thousand per person GDP, China's
16:31
Speaker 3: is fifteen. We have all the food warn and energy
16:34
Speaker 3: we want. They import ten million bounds of oil a day.
16:37
Speaker 3: I mean it's not They're not a ten foot giant,
16:39
Speaker 3: and that's a four foot pigmy. We have to manage ourselves.
16:42
Speaker 3: Bat I think we can grow more and more thought forward.
16:44
Speaker 2: So you know, a lot of people say it's commercial
16:46
Speaker 2: real estate. I mean, we talk about nothing else. Everybody
16:48
Speaker 2: knows that that could break. Is there something that we're
16:51
Speaker 2: not seeing that could break?
16:52
Speaker 3: I think it's amazing when you talk about Marcus that
16:54
Speaker 3: sometimes it's and the press sometimes like a bunch of
16:57
Speaker 3: birds flocking to one thing with endless common about it. Yes,
17:01
Speaker 3: that's an issue. So you know, if you look at
17:03
Speaker 3: office real estate in B and C real estate will
17:06
Speaker 3: private problem Chicago, New York, Partland, Seattle, but probably not Nashville, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, etc.
17:15
Speaker 3: So you got to you gotta be a little more
17:16
Speaker 3: thoughtful about it. And I think if I'm the number
17:18
Speaker 3: banks have six hundred billion of office commercial real estate,
17:22
Speaker 3: you know they had a cushion or you even dropped
17:24
Speaker 3: and die. They self equity in it. Maybe something that
17:26
Speaker 3: will go bad, particularly the recession, they're gonna be Okay.
17:31
Speaker 3: It may take a few banks down. That's normal. Stuff
17:34
Speaker 3: that isn't abnormal. What is abnormal is the war trade
17:39
Speaker 3: the future of democracy. That is abnormal. I'm much more
17:43
Speaker 3: concerned about that than.
17:44
Speaker 2: The markets trade that. Right, if there's a big geopolitics,
17:48
Speaker 2: there's there's how do the markets talk them do that?
17:51
Speaker 3: Okay, Look, if I was a we're cautious I remind people,
17:55
Speaker 3: I'm not businesses aren't there to trade its. Sometimes they
17:59
Speaker 3: don't serve our clients, okay, and so we're gonna serve
18:01
Speaker 3: our clients no matter what happened.
18:02
Speaker 2: James, very quickly, final question, how are you feeling about
18:05
Speaker 2: the Epstein deposition this month?
18:07
Speaker 3: I am so sad that we had any relays with
18:11
Speaker 3: that man whatsoever. You know, we had top lawyers of
18:14
Speaker 3: value in this, from the SEC, Enforcement, the DOJ, you know,
18:18
Speaker 3: and obviously have we known them. We know today we
18:20
Speaker 3: would have done things differently. But it's very unfortunate, and
18:23
Speaker 3: I have deep respect for these women. That doesn't mean
18:26
Speaker 3: reliable for the action of an individual, but I do
18:28
Speaker 3: have deep respect for them. My heart goes out to them.
18:31
Speaker 1: And that was JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Diamond speaking
18:37
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Francine Lockcroawt from Paris. You can catch the
18:40
Speaker 1: full conversation on Bloomberg dot Com, on the Bloomberg terminal,
18:44
Speaker 1: and at the Bloomberg Business app.