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Episode 115: Fulfillment (ft. Jamie Langenbrunner) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  Let's jump back to 1999.
• 0:04
  I recall sitting in my car while my friends were all indoors at a party.
• 0:09
  this was before the days of streaming audio, and the party host did not have cable.
• 0:16
  Dallas stars and Buffalo Savers are in triple overtime.
• 0:19
  It's game six.
• 0:21
  You're on the road in New York, scoreless game through regulation, and two overtimes in the third ot.
• 0:30
  14 minutes, 51 seconds in Brett Hull scores the cup winning goal for Dallas.
• 0:36
  It was jubilation for me, sitting alone in my car at that moment, however you were on the ice.
• 0:42
  What did you feel in that moment?
• 0:45
  Well, I think jubilation would've been one of the words I could used.
• 0:47
  Um.
• 0:50
  I think it was the, uh, the feeling of accomplishing a, a lifelong goal.
• 0:55
  You know, as a, as a young kid, you, you grow up in the, on the outdoor rinks in your backyard, in your basement of, of winning a Stanley Cup.
• 1:05
  And, you know, that was the moment that that dream was realized.
• 1:09
  And, I think I, I jumped over the boards from the bench.
• 1:14
  Uh.
• 1:15
  Probably pretty easily at that moment.
• 1:17
  And despite it being triple overtime and a long night, and all of us were probably pretty tired, uh, I think we seemed to find a, a good level of energy again right then.
• 1:27
  And, just the excitement, uh, of, of celebrating with, with your teammates, your friends, you, you'd been through a battle and, for it to be over and to be, uh, be accomplishing that.
• 1:37
  It, it was a pretty special night.
• 1:40
  So was Brett Hull's skate in the crease?
• 1:43
  Um, yes.
• 1:45
  But that is allowed to score a goal.
• 1:49
  Yeah, right.
• 1:50
  We all play hockey.
• 1:51
  When you have control of the puck, you're allowed to, your foot can touch it while you have the puck.
• 1:56
  But you know, it's one of those things that, uh, always gets brought up.
• 2:01
  The, of course, the foot I had to ask.
• 2:03
  Uh, it, it definitely does.
• 2:04
  Um.
• 2:06
  What I always tell anyone from Buffalo would ask me that question.
• 2:09
  Uh, Buffalo still hasn't scored yet either, so I'm pretty sure they didn't, they didn't win yet either.
• 2:14
  So, uh, you know, it was, it was a great battle and a great, uh, a great series actually, you know, a team like them that, that came from a little bit down the, down the group a little bit and surprised and, we were a team that had been good for a while and you know, were able to get it come out on top.
• 2:33
  You were born in Cloquet, Minnesota.
• 2:35
  two Stanley Cups with Dallas and New Jersey Olympic silver medalist in 2010.
• 2:41
  Inducted into the US Hockey Hall of Fame in 2023.
• 2:45
  Jamie Rener, welcome to the studio.
• 2:47
  Thanks, Reid.
• 2:48
  Pleasure to be here.
• 2:49
  You played 1,109 regular season NHL Games in total.
• 2:55
  Recorded 663 points including 243 goals, 420 assists, 146 career playoff games, 87 points in that span, by the way, with the Olympics going on now, what was it like playing in the Olympics?
• 3:10
  Uh, the Olympics were, uh, were a real neat experience.
• 3:14
  Um, you know, I was fortunate to do it twice, once in 98 when I was a young kid, and, it was kind of a blur to be honest with you.
• 3:21
  I was really, I was named to the team, uh, late.
• 3:24
  My, my wife was nine months pregnant at that time.
• 3:27
  We, I flew over, we played, we lost, I flew back and had a, had a child.
• 3:32
  So that one was, um.
• 3:35
  That one was just kind of a blur.
• 3:37
  The second one in, in Vancouver, I was named the team ahead of time, got the buildup.
• 3:42
  I was much older in my career.
• 3:44
  Family was able to come and, uh, and be a part of it.
• 3:48
  so I think I was able to take that one all in a little bit more, uh, go to a few other events, you know, enjoy the, enjoy the Village, but the Olympics, They're an amazing experience.
• 4:00
  You know, it's, it's totally unique where you're, you're, you're playing for something much bigger than, than just you or your team.
• 4:08
  You know, you're playing for your country and, and you can feel that difference.
• 4:11
  And, you know, I really noticed it coming back from those Olympics and people talking about where they were during that gold medal game where they were watching, um, how many people that I thought paid no attention to hockey were, were paying attention to that game.
• 4:27
  So.
• 4:28
  amazing life experience.
• 4:29
  Amazing, uh, opportunity to, to play on the grandest stage and, you know, to have some success there and, which would like to change the result, I guess.
• 4:40
  Yeah.
• 4:40
  But, but you know, in some ways, some ways not, you know, that's sport.
• 4:45
  And it was a great game and, you know.
• 4:49
  One of the greatest players of, of our generation and Sidney Crosby scores a game winner to, to beat you.
• 4:54
  And that's, that's kind of kind of what happens in sports sometime.
• 4:57
  Those, at least it was him, right?
• 4:58
  At least it was him.
• 4:59
  Well, yes and no.
• 5:01
  I'll tell you this, I'm sick of seeing that goal, but yeah, I bet it's, you know, every time that the Olympics are back, they kind of bring those back out now.
• 5:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:09
  But, those things are, are, are special.
• 5:11
  And you know, it's one of the things in, in playing hockey that, uh, has, has given a, a lot of cool opportunities playing in state tournaments, playing Stanley cups, playing in Olympics.
• 5:21
  Those are, those are neat experiences that, you know, as a kid you dream of, but you, you never really believe it's gonna happen.
• 5:27
  So.
• 5:29
  In 2010, you scored the first hat trick of your career against the Minnesota Wild in your home state.
• 5:35
  Yeah.
• 5:36
  As the devil's defeated the wild five to three, how much flack did you get over that one?
• 5:40
  Um, I got a little because my, uh, my brothers happened to be at the game and my one brother threw a hat onto the ice, and I, I guess he was getting yelled at in the crowd.
• 5:49
  But, um, you know, it was, it was actually real special.
• 5:53
  I'd actually just got named, uh, the Olympic team the day before, uh, that game, and then.
• 5:58
  We finally get, uh, I had trick to happen.
• 6:01
  I had, I don't remember how many two goal games in my career.
• 6:04
  Some stupid number where I could never finish it.
• 6:07
  But, you know, it's just one of those things and it, it, it was nice to do it, do it at home in front of friends and family for sure.
• 6:16
  You're currently in your 11th season with a Boston Bruins and fourth as Assistant General Manager of Player Personnel.
• 6:23
  What's a typical day like for you in that role?
• 6:26
  I gotta imagine travel and long days may not even scratch the surface.
• 6:31
  Yeah.
• 6:32
  You know, it's, uh, it's a lot of, I call it almost playing fantasy hockey for real.
• 6:39
  Yeah.
• 6:39
  Tell us more.
• 6:40
  You dream up, you dream up trades.
• 6:42
  Uh, you, you work on how you're trying to improve your team, but, um, no, the reality of it is, um.
• 6:50
  I travel a lot.
• 6:50
  I, I watch a lot of hockey games.
• 6:52
  I probably see between 150 and 200 games a year in all levels.
• 6:58
  Um, high school right to the NHL and everywhere in between.
• 7:02
  So, but it's a lot of fun.
• 7:04
  You're involved with the team, you're, you're working towards your goal of, of, of winning a Stanley Cup and, you know, my role is to, to find players that can help us win.
• 7:13
  I work with our pro staff and our amateur staff on, on identifying players and, work with our GM and our president and the owners and stuff on, you know, making trades and doing contracts.
• 7:26
  And yeah, it's a little bit like fantasy hockey, but, uh, but for real, who was your idol growing up?
• 7:34
  Hockey or otherwise?
• 7:36
  Ooh.
• 7:37
  Uh, I, I grew up in small town northern Minnesota, so, you know, hockey wise, Neil Brotton was, was the, uh, was the guy for me, another Northern Minnesota guy.
• 7:48
  The success he had, whether it was.
• 7:51
  Olympic Golden 80 or playing in the playing for the Stars.
• 7:55
  Um, I think he broke the hearts of fighting Sioux fans in 79 too.
• 7:59
  I have to throw that in there.
• 8:01
  Well, I don't remember that.
• 8:01
  I was four in 79, so I was only, I was eight.
• 8:05
  But I just remember maybe that was when the real rivalry as a kid really, really sparked in me.
• 8:10
  What, isn't that the way it works?
• 8:11
  Yeah.
• 8:11
  You know, there's something that.
• 8:13
  That hits you, that, uh, that brings you in.
• 8:15
  And, uh, you know, that's what's so great about sport, but you know, and then for me, for with Neil, I like, I had the opportunity then to play with him when I, when I turned pro with, with the Stars.
• 8:27
  He was, he was still in Dallas in, uh, in, uh, 94, 95.
• 8:33
  It was, it was a little surreal for me.
• 8:35
  What did that feel like?
• 8:36
  Yeah, it was surreal for me going into, into their, into that locker room.
• 8:39
  I had gotten called up from, uh, I was playing junior in Peterborough, Ontario.
• 8:44
  Um, we had lost out, uh, had had my hair all dyed, didn't, some stupid colors.
• 8:51
  And I get a phone call from, uh, my billets at the time.
• 8:56
  Jamie, you need to call Bob Ganey back.
• 8:57
  He's been trying to get ahold of you.
• 8:58
  It's, it'd been a couple days.
• 9:00
  We'd lost out.
• 9:01
  I'd probably hanging with my buddies.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:02
  And no cell phones back, back then, of course.
• 9:04
  So no one's tracking you down and they're like, Bob's trying to get ahold of you.
• 9:08
  So went back to my billets house, called him quick and uh, I got called up to, to play for the Dallas Stars and I was 19 years old.
• 9:18
  I shocked outta my mind.
• 9:21
  Trying to find a barber to go get my hair fixed.
• 9:23
  Was gonna ask before I get on the airplane.
• 9:24
  You didn't go like that, did you?
• 9:26
  Well, I went and they cut out some of it, but there was still a little streak they couldn't get out and I didn't have time to, to really, to really go at it.
• 9:32
  But, uh, I, I fly into, uh, into St.
• 9:36
  Louis and, um, meet the team there and, it was amazing.
• 9:41
  You know, you walk in the locker room and Mike Madonna's on the team and Neil Broughton's on the team.
• 9:48
  All these guys you had grown up watching idolizing, uh, and you're in the same locker room with them and then get on the ice and I'm out there for the first face off and, or my first face off.
• 9:59
  I'm sure I wasn't starting, I don't even remember.
• 10:01
  It's a little bit of a blur.
• 10:02
  But, uh, and Brett Hull's standing there and Brett grew up, or not grew up, but lived in, in Northern Minnesota.
• 10:08
  So I had, I had met him a couple times and you know, he leans up to me and goes, welcome to the NHL Jamie.
• 10:14
  And you know, it, it was one of those.
• 10:17
  One of those moments where it really felt special.
• 10:20
  You know, guy of his stature, he won't remember it.
• 10:23
  Him and I are friends now.
• 10:24
  Sure.
• 10:25
  But he, he wouldn't remember it at that time.
• 10:27
  But for me it meant, it meant the world and, to really, you know, they, they say you should never meet your heroes.
• 10:33
  Uh, I'm not sure about that.
• 10:34
  Sometimes it's, it's good to understand how normal people, they, they really are and they're just good at something that you, you enjoy watching'em do.
• 10:44
  But the.
• 10:45
  The people, more often than not are, are some of the best people around.
• 10:49
  So I've been fortunate that way.
• 10:50
  What a special memory, which NHL Arena has the best atmosphere and which was the hardest to play in?
• 10:59
  Um, best atmosphere probably varied to the, which team I was playing for.
• 11:05
  you know, and I played for New Jersey.
• 11:07
  Going into Madison Square Garden was, was special.
• 11:10
  I think that's in a special arena anyway, even with any team, it's just the history of it.
• 11:15
  You walk up the ramp, which is four fleet, four flights up, and I don't think I realized that until the first time I got there.
• 11:22
  And we call it the leg tester.
• 11:24
  If you get up there and your legs still feel good, you're alright for the night.
• 11:27
  If they don't, it might be a long night and, uh, at MSG, but you know that that's a pretty special one.
• 11:32
  Um.
• 11:34
  I enjoy playing in Montreal.
• 11:36
  just their, their knowledge of the game.
• 11:38
  They're into it, it's loud.
• 11:39
  Uh, and again, the history.
• 11:41
  History is there.
• 11:42
  That's, that's pretty special.
• 11:44
  Um, then as a Minnesota kid, anytime came back here and, and, and played in, in front of your friends and family was, was always enjoyable.
• 11:53
  those would be the most, the main ones for me, for sure.
• 11:59
  I recently read someone talking about gold medalist syndrome.
• 12:04
  It was summarized as the idea that achieving a major success, like winning a gold medal or perhaps a Stanley Cup, doesn't automatically bring lasting happiness or fulfillment.
• 12:16
  People can reach the pinnacle of success and still feel unfulfilled, empty, or like something is missing.
• 12:25
  It's that approach of, once I win or achieve blank, then I'll be happy.
• 12:33
  After winning the big prize, people often immediately feel pressure to achieve an even higher goal raising the bar on themselves rather than feeling satisfied.
• 12:43
  This can lead to a never ending cycle of striving that doesn't bring deeper happiness or fulfillment.
• 12:52
  I think that, uh, that does sum it up a bit, you know?
• 12:59
  I think life, um, has a way of promising, or the idea is of promising something.
• 13:11
  Um, but the actual fulfillment you get in in it is something different than you expected.
• 13:18
  Um, did you experience that at all?
• 13:23
  I, I did.
• 13:24
  I, I, I think the immediate win winning.
• 13:29
  You have that joy?
• 13:31
  I, I think it's the next day.
• 13:35
  That days that follow.
• 13:36
  You're like, now what?
• 13:39
  Now what I've accomplished.
• 13:40
  My, my goal, my goal was, for me as a kid growing up, my goal was to make the National Hockey League did it when a Stanley Cup did it.
• 13:50
  Now what?
• 13:51
  Now how do I stay motivated and push myself to be at the top of the game?
• 13:57
  You gotta find a new motivation for that, or you realize that maybe that wasn't your goal.
• 14:05
  You know, and I, and I think for me it took many years, uh, not many years after hockey, but a year or two after hockey of, of realizing what really mattered to me.
• 14:22
  You know, I, I pushed so hard for so long to.
• 14:28
  To be an NHL player to stay at the top of the game, which is, is difficult.
• 14:32
  I mean, there's always someone coming to knock you off.
• 14:34
  Uh, it doesn't always go your way, especially, uh, on your way out, out, out of a career.
• 14:40
  Um, father time is still undefeated and you know, and.
• 14:48
  Yeah, he has a way of, of really kicking your ass to be honest with you, when it, when it, when it really matters.
• 14:53
  And, you know, I, I, I, I think learning for me, when, when hockey finished that there was more to, to me and more to what everybody else saw me.
• 15:08
  I always assumed that I was either liked or had friends because.
• 15:16
  We played hockey and there was just this, this joint thing that came with that.
• 15:23
  But the reality is they, hockey was just something I did and it was never anything that really mattered to those most important to me.
• 15:32
  Um, they enjoyed and they supported me and they were there, but they didn't, they didn't really, really care about that.
• 15:39
  And, and I think that was the.
• 15:43
  The joy that I found in, in my post career after, after really struggling for, for a year.
• 15:50
  You know, I, I'd always been a little bit, um, closed off.
• 15:58
  Uh, I think in general that was, that was what I was, I don't wanna say taught.
• 16:05
  That's what I was.
• 16:07
  That's what I saw.
• 16:08
  That's all you're wired, that's all.
• 16:09
  It's all your, you know, you, you, you, you, you go into, into hockey and go into a sport and you, you wanna be strong and protected and, you know, you don't want to show vulnerability and in, in all those things, uh, you know, I was probably extra in, in that.
• 16:26
  Um, but then when the game goes away and you lose that outlet, it's.
• 16:33
  Okay, now, now what?
• 16:35
  It's the, now what's, and you know, for me it took, you know, a long stretch in, uh, in a treatment facility to, to work on things.
• 16:44
  Um, a readjustment of wiring in my brain on how I, how I approach things, how I coped, you know, um, you know, when you, when you hide it, uh, when you mask it like I did, whether that was with.
• 17:02
  Alcohol or substances of, of whatever or processes, you know, you know, my, my newest, my newest one that I gotta battle is my phone.
• 17:11
  You know, I wanna, I wanna disappear into my, to my phone a time when I'm getting, mm-hmm.
• 17:15
  When I'm getting stressed.
• 17:16
  But, you know, I think, I think the, go back to your original question, the, the, you know, the, the gold medal feeling of, of the syndrome.
• 17:27
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:27
  Like, it's, it's for sure real and I, and I think that's because.
• 17:32
  We all make up expectations of what things are are supposed to like, be like, and what they're supposed to look like when you accomplish it.
• 17:40
  And, you know, and we all have a vision of what a, how a billionaire goes about their life or, yes.
• 17:45
  This, you know, everyone has a thought of how things are and the reality, it never really matches up to, to what that expectations we've, we've put up and are put in our head.
• 17:55
  Are we made the picture of so.
• 17:58
  It's an, it's an adjustment and it's, um, it's something that I would say now I've been sober for almost 11 years now.
• 18:11
  I see it more as an accomplishment than I probably did two years after, a year after, after doing it.
• 18:22
  Um.
• 18:23
  I can appreciate what we all went through as, as teammates together.
• 18:28
  Um, I can see from what I've, you know, watching from this side and, and how stinking hearted it is to, to win and how, how much has to go right for, for those things to, to, uh, to happen.
• 18:42
  So I appreciate it more now, today, but, you know, I'm still fighting that battle of what's next, what a what.
• 18:52
  Where, well, what am I gonna accomplish next?
• 18:54
  And that, that's the battle that I'll continue to, to battle my whole life.
• 19:00
  It seems like a reality in so many layers of life.
• 19:05
  you may think you know what it's going to feel like if you lose a loved one, but it's never how you anticipate or the new job, The new dream job, you get hired, you're all over it, and then one day, Hmm, this isn't how I anticipated it.
• 19:23
  Scotty Scheffler gave an interesting speech about winning and how the feeling of winning lasts two minutes.
• 19:30
  Reporters always ask him about the next one, the next tournament.
• 19:34
  He basically said that the secret of it all is that he's just the guy who loves to practice.
• 19:40
  He loves the doing of it, not the reward of it.
• 19:45
  we want the reward of blank, and it will last two minutes.
• 19:50
  You gotta love the thing you're doing.
• 19:51
  He said, if you're going to have success and maintain it, That is such a, it explains him, you know, it explains his consistency, his ability, I know it's an overused thing now.
• 20:06
  The process.
• 20:08
  Yeah.
• 20:08
  They like to throw in there all the time, but to me that's been a prime example of just being in the moment.
• 20:16
  And for him, the moment of.
• 20:19
  Plane or hitting the next shot or practicing or whatever that day is.
• 20:24
  It's what he's so good at, at being in, and that's how you find greatness.
• 20:32
  You touched on something a few moments ago, so beyond the obvious chirping, the humor, alcohol does play a significant role in the lifestyle of hockey, and usually from an early age, we're being honest.
• 20:47
  Yep.
• 20:48
  I read Jean Beau's autobiography It was interesting to read about, even back then on the night of a loss, they knew they shouldn't be having beers in the bus and they were passing them underneath the, I wonder if Bob Ganey was on that bus.
• 21:04
  Who knows?
• 21:07
  does it go against the grain to abstain to say, not for me, or, because I know, let's say it's a young man's lifestyle, a bit I would imagine that that had to be tough to separate from when the career was over, but what, what do you think of that?
• 21:21
  Um, I, I do believe.
• 21:26
  At the time I was going through it, it would've been very hard to abstain.
• 21:32
  I, I, I think it was a, a major part of the fabric of, of hockey teams, whether it was on the bus, um, going to lunch after practice where you basically sat there till dinner.
• 21:49
  Um.
• 21:51
  That was, it was part of it.
• 21:54
  My, my first ever drink would've been coming down to the Minnesota State Tournament as a.
• 22:00
  I'm not gonna tell what grade, but it Oh, you know, it was, it was, that's kind of a rite of passage though, too.
• 22:06
  It is.
• 22:06
  A little bit, a bit, at least I thought.
• 22:08
  Yeah.
• 22:08
  Right.
• 22:09
  So I did the same thing in North Dakota.
• 22:11
  I'm not divulging what?
• 22:12
  Nope.
• 22:12
  Yep.
• 22:13
  We'll keep the age out of it.
• 22:14
  Yes.
• 22:14
  But, you know, so yes, it was, it was a part of it.
• 22:17
  What I, what I've seen now is there's a little bit of a culture change in it, which is, which is good to see.
• 22:26
  I, I, I don't see the same.
• 22:28
  pure pressure to, to be involved in it.
• 22:32
  Um, I see players that, I don't know if they're stronger in their own makeup or these guys just aren't as into the team as much, but they're, there's, there's a difference where guys kind of do their own thing a little bit and I think you're, you're seeing a little bit of a healthier.
• 22:53
  Healthier group.
• 22:54
  right now we've had so many guests in the studio from a wide range of career backgrounds that have had a hard time facing their own challenges in life, whether that was depression, mental health, sometimes addiction, sometimes just feeling alone in that concern of not wanting to be a burden to someone.
• 23:20
  It really rattles me to the core, how many men especially are struggling with something.
• 23:27
  We've all got something and there's such a reluctance to leverage a friend, a trusted confidant, have a conversation, talk about how to work through that.
• 23:41
  Men put themselves on this self-imposed island seemingly all the time.
• 23:46
  Coming out of a career like yours where, like you said earlier, play harder, dig deeper.
• 23:53
  That's no place to say I'm, I'm, I'm feeling a little fragile today.
• 23:58
  But coming out of your career, leaning on alcohol or painkillers is you're, you're, you're tattered, you're bruised, What would you tell your younger self transitioning out of the game or out of a career on how to navigate some of those unknowns?
• 24:19
  Well, I would tell myself first, I'd first ask myself to be kind to myself.
• 24:29
  You know?
• 24:29
  I think that's one of the, my biggest.
• 24:34
  Struggles and the struggle that happens to with many is because of past choices.
• 24:43
  Um, things may have done that fear, that shame though of.
• 24:53
  Of those you've hurt, those things that you just want to take back isolates you more.
• 25:00
  And, and I think I would first tell myself to give yourself a break.
• 25:07
  You know, you, you made the best decisions you could at the time with the, the tools you had, the, the ability to, to handle, um.
• 25:17
  That was what you knew.
• 25:18
  Now, now you know, something different.
• 25:22
  Um, and that's what I continue to tell myself today is, is that it still creeps in.
• 25:28
  The shame creeps in and the, the shame and the guilt is what I think pulls you back into, into the addictive cycle.
• 25:37
  Uh, what about shame?
• 25:38
  About what specifically?
• 25:40
  many things for me.
• 25:42
  You know, there was stuff that would've happened growing up.
• 25:46
  Um, could be past relationships, you know, for me, my wife and I, you know, there's, there's choices I made that, that hurt our marriage, um, that we had to, you know, choosing not to.
• 26:02
  To come home at night and staying out, drinking, you know, sure I have small kids and, you know, those things that, that ruin trust, that, that, you know, make it, make it hard for, to stay connected.
• 26:16
  That that hurt your, your own kids and their growing up.
• 26:20
  Um, I mean, those things are, those are things that, that eat at you and you, then you feel guilty and then you go and do the whole cycle again.
• 26:28
  Um, you know, there's the.
• 26:32
  the choices to, I mean, you've said it have an extra beer or two the night before a game, and is your performance up to, uh, up to, up to snuff the next day?
• 26:42
  Um, probably not as good as it could have been.
• 26:45
  you know, when you, when you win and you maybe feel a little less guilty, but if you happen to lose those nights, then you know, what, what else could I have done?
• 26:53
  You know, the things, the things you miss, you know, as a.
• 26:57
  Someone that was traveling around playing game.
• 27:00
  You, you miss, you miss kids' birthdays, you miss, I suppose.
• 27:03
  Yeah.
• 27:03
  Things, things like that.
• 27:04
  That school events.
• 27:05
  School events, yeah.
• 27:06
  Games.
• 27:07
  You know, I had my kids relatively young and or really young in life and you know, so I, I miss some of those when I, when I was playing.
• 27:15
  So you start to go back, what am I, how am I affected my kids?
• 27:19
  And then.
• 27:20
  You can have that eat at you, so.
• 27:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:22
  There's, there's so many things that you can, and this is to me, just the attic brain will, will make up anything and everything.
• 27:29
  You know, I stopped the store when I should have came home faster, you know?
• 27:33
  Yeah.
• 27:33
  As stupid as that.
• 27:34
  Like, so I'm not gonna tell my, my new self or the change, um, I'm glad the journey I went on.
• 27:46
  I think it helped shape me to where I am today.
• 27:49
  I don't think I have the understanding, I have today without going through that journey, but it sure would've been nice to tell myself, take it a little bit easier, you know, be, be a little more in tune to what, what you're missing now.
• 28:07
  Um, kind of bring the Scotty Shuffler, you know, the mentality of.
• 28:13
  Focus where your feet are right now.
• 28:15
  Um, be be a part of, of the life you're living and not searching for something that's in the future or in the past.
• 28:26
  And you made a tough decision to confront some of these things with alcohol, and I would assume free time.
• 28:33
  Is that the safe assumption that you were, your schedule is so full.
• 28:37
  Travel, practice games, family where you could wedge that in.
• 28:42
  Did you find yourself with a surplus of, hmm, I don't know, maybe golf on your free day, days off, or all this free time now, but was that a thing?
• 28:50
  Oh, it was a huge thing for me.
• 28:52
  Um, didn't know what to do with myself, you know, when I first retired.
• 28:57
  First month and a half I was, I loved it.
• 29:01
  I went, I dropped the kids off at school, I'd go to the golf course, play 45 holes, pick'em up and, you know,'cause it was something I Hadn hadn't ever really had the time to do.
• 29:10
  And then, then it became, okay, now what?
• 29:15
  Um, too much free time, too much time for my, my brain to.
• 29:23
  I just say play tricks on me to tell, you know, tell me, tell me lies.
• 29:26
  Tell me stories, give me thoughts of, of ways to, to soothe that brain, to, to keep it, keep it quieted down a little bit.
• 29:35
  And so that's now a new battle.
• 29:40
  Uh, a new battle for me is because finding a level of peace in that free time is also really important.
• 29:47
  I don't want to be.
• 29:49
  Frantic 24 7.
• 29:50
  You know, growing up I call it to, to be able to just be, to, to sit on the couch and pet my dog and not think I have to scroll on my phone or be alone in your thoughts.
• 30:02
  Be alone in my thoughts.
• 30:04
  one of the hardest things for me to do is to be alone in my thoughts.
• 30:07
  I don't trust where my thoughts will go.
• 30:09
  I don't want to, I don't wanna go in investigate'em all the time.
• 30:13
  Right?
• 30:13
  So, you know, it, it's putting myself into a, into a, a mindset where I can be alone with my thoughts and they don't define me and they're, they're just thoughts and to continue to move on through that.
• 30:25
  And, you know, those tools that you learn that I learned in, in treatment are, are, have been life lessons that are.
• 30:35
  Amazing for me and how I, I go about sitting on an airplane and killing two hours before I'd have to watch a movie.
• 30:43
  Now I can just, yeah, I can relax once in a while and maybe just look outside.
• 30:48
  Being lost in our thoughts is a lost art.
• 30:51
  It's, it's not common anymore.
• 30:53
  We have such a, a reflexive habit now.
• 30:56
  Stand in line, pull out the phone.
• 30:59
  I'm with you.
• 31:00
  That device, I, it's such a love, hate.
• 31:02
  It's with me everywhere.
• 31:05
  My wife and I are trying in the evening to leave the device in the other room, leaving the ringer on, have aging parents.
• 31:12
  If the phone rings and someone's calling, it's probably important to have that realization one day that look at us, we're sitting next to each other, the TV's on, and we're both scrolling.
• 31:23
  Instagram X There's something to be said.
• 31:28
  About putting that away and not being so absorbed by the outside world.
• 31:35
  It's not easy.
• 31:36
  And you, if we have kids too, that must be even, that's all they've known for most of their adult life.
• 31:42
  The technology we're just, we're so connected.
• 31:45
  So connected, but so disconnected.
• 31:48
  You know?
• 31:48
  I think that's the, that's the part that.
• 31:53
  Has been lost.
• 31:54
  Um, just the ability to sit here and have a conversation.
• 31:58
  You know, you, you, you said it, you're, you're standing in line and everyone pulls it out and starts scrolling.
• 32:04
  You know, I travel a lot, so, you know, sitting on a, sitting on an airplane have an opportunity to, to have a conversation with someone sitting right next to you for three hours, I'd say nine outta 10 times, we both just pull out our phones.
• 32:19
  Yeah.
• 32:19
  And start, start scrolling.
• 32:22
  Although the times when, when I've had a conversation, been really neat.
• 32:27
  Like at this author one night, he was telling me about the book he was writing this random guy on a plane, random guy sitting next to you on the plane.
• 32:33
  Like you meet some of the, some unique people in the, in the stories.
• 32:37
  And it's something I am, I've been working at getting better at, is trying to connect with, with people in some way when I am, when I'm there.
• 32:47
  Whether it's just with a smile, just help'em with their bag on the thing.
• 32:52
  you know, everyone thinks, well, you're doing it for that.
• 32:54
  No, yeah, I'm doing it for me.
• 32:55
  Yeah, it's, it's selfish'cause it makes me feel better.
• 32:59
  It makes me more connected in the world.
• 33:03
  So my wife was always pushing on us, you know, and not pushing on us, but we talked about, we've, we've kind of cleared out our bedroom.
• 33:10
  When we go up there, it's, we're not watching a TV show and stuff.
• 33:13
  Now it's, we may put on some.
• 33:16
  Zen music of some sort, whatever.
• 33:18
  Sure.
• 33:18
  Something chill too.
• 33:18
  Yeah.
• 33:19
  Yeah.
• 33:19
  But it, it's more just, that's a place to go.
• 33:22
  Relax our dogs, come and cuddle with us and, but yeah.
• 33:25
  You know, a place to unplug and get away and, you know, I think that's, that's helped me.
• 33:30
  Um, the golf course is one place where I, I love it.
• 33:34
  I, you know, is that your zen spot?
• 33:35
  That's my zen spot.
• 33:36
  Go out and walk on the golf course.
• 33:39
  Go play in some of the most beautiful places in the world.
• 33:41
  So no cart for you?
• 33:43
  Uh, no.
• 33:44
  I'm not saying that I have my, okay.
• 33:45
  I have a cart too, but very good.
• 33:46
  Not always.
• 33:47
  I prefer, I shouldn't say I prefer to walk.
• 33:50
  Um, some courses I prefer to walk.
• 33:53
  It's nice when you can.
• 33:54
  It is, it's, to me, it's the time you can really appreciate where you are.
• 33:59
  Really appreciate the, the nature, the, you know, you can go off on your own if you're riding a cart.
• 34:07
  Especially nowadays, everything you usually have music on or of course people talking and it's fun nights to just just walk down the middle of the fairway and and be in a different world.
• 34:20
  That whole aspect of putting oneself out there, I heard your story at the panel at the World Juniors.
• 34:30
  You were joined by Paul Broughton.
• 34:33
  Paul Martin.
• 34:35
  The impact of hearing your story and all of you that shared that day is powerful on just saying, Hey, I, I, I acknowledged I had some issues I needed to confront in life, and I did it and it was hard.
• 34:49
  It wasn't like you weren't going to a resort to golf and just hang out.
• 34:52
  That was some.
• 34:54
  That was an arduous process.
• 34:56
  But so many men just need a little nudge.
• 35:01
  Well, men and women, but especially men that feel like I shouldn't say anything.
• 35:05
  I can't say anything.
• 35:07
  I don't want to be a burden and maybe I don't wanna look in the mirror.
• 35:11
  There were two things you said there that really hit home for me.
• 35:15
  I don't want to be a burden.
• 35:16
  Uh, that's one for sure.
• 35:18
  You know, I've later learned.
• 35:23
  For myself, that was just a excuse.
• 35:26
  cause I still use it today.
• 35:27
  I'll, I'll use it with some of my closest friends that know my whole story and, you know, are, are a big support for me.
• 35:37
  And I'll still be afraid to, I shouldn't say afraid.
• 35:41
  I'll still tell myself I don't wanna call him.
• 35:44
  I, I should handle this one myself.
• 35:47
  And it's the first thing they, they yell at me to this day.
• 35:51
  Like, no, whenever there's something you need to come.
• 35:54
  And, but that's, that's a fallback of mine, um, ingrained as a kid.
• 35:58
  I don't wanna be a burden, don't want to, uh, put this on.
• 36:01
  I don't want the attention.
• 36:02
  Yeah.
• 36:03
  I don't want the attention.
• 36:03
  I, but I also think a lot of times for me, I don't wanna deal with it, If I just forget about it, it'll go away.
• 36:13
  But the reality is, it, it never goes away.
• 36:16
  It, it, it sits there until you, until you confront it.
• 36:20
  And it's still a work in progress for me.
• 36:23
  I think it always will be, but it's something that my wife and I, we, we don't let each other off the hook with that anymore.
• 36:32
  Really?
• 36:33
  Oh, I'm, oh, I'm fine.
• 36:35
  No.
• 36:36
  Fine.
• 36:36
  Doesn't count.
• 36:37
  Cut it.
• 36:37
  Any married man that hears I'm fine.
• 36:39
  Should know better.
• 36:40
  Yes.
• 36:41
  Well, and she's the same for me.
• 36:42
  Okay.
• 36:42
  So when I say, when I say I'm fine, she'll go, yeah, okay.
• 36:47
  So he's talk, let's talk.
• 36:49
  So, and that's, that's the biggest thing is just talk.
• 36:56
  I always felt that I needed to have an answer if I, if I was gonna talk or be able to figure out a, a problem.
• 37:04
  Solution.
• 37:04
  You're a fixer.
• 37:05
  Yeah, I'm a fixer.
• 37:07
  And the reality is you don't need a solution all the time.
• 37:10
  Sometimes you just need to, to say it out loud.
• 37:13
  Sometimes you just need to hear it.
• 37:14
  Sometimes when I speak it out loud, what I thought was bothering me, and you hear what your own, you're like, that doesn't even really bother me.
• 37:23
  Like, what, what am I, what do I, what do I really care about it?
• 37:26
  But when you're playing it around in your head, it's, it's when it's swirling, it's the biggest thing in the world.
• 37:33
  Then you, you, you speak it out and it seems to lose a lot of its power, especially, especially when you have supportive people around you.
• 37:41
  And what I've learned is most people are, uh, most people want to be there for you.
• 37:46
  They like yourself.
• 37:49
  Like we, we struggle at how to, how to do it sometimes, but it doesn't need to be perfect, you know?
• 37:55
  I think that's another issue of mine is I always wanted everything to be perfect.
• 37:59
  I got to do it.
• 38:00
  No, it doesn't.
• 38:01
  Yeah, you don't have to say it exactly right.
• 38:03
  You don't have to.
• 38:04
  You just need to say it.
• 38:05
  And, you know, that's, that's been a, a major change for me.
• 38:10
  That's, that's helped a lot is just, just say it, you know, that doesn't feel right.
• 38:15
  Um, I, that bothers me.
• 38:18
  It whatever is simple as that.
• 38:21
  And.
• 38:22
  Leave it.
• 38:23
  You don't need a solution.
• 38:24
  You don't need to to fix it.
• 38:25
  You don't have to put a bow on it.
• 38:26
  You don't.
• 38:27
  And that's, that's just life.
• 38:30
  And gonna have good days, I'm gonna have bad days, and when I do something wrong, I'm gonna make my amends and, try not to do it again.
• 38:39
  And the reality is it probably will screw up again.
• 38:43
  And the, that's, that's the part of me that's.
• 38:47
  That's growing and continuing to, and quit drinking 11 years ago.
• 38:54
  And it's still an on ongoing thing of, of rebuilding and, and growing up.
• 38:59
  Um, how I, how I go about things and, and being okay with it.
• 39:04
  And that's just life for me.
• 39:09
  We talk about these things frequently in our masonic circles as Freemason Ry.
• 39:15
  The experience of it is about authentic friendship and personal growth.
• 39:20
  That development that we talk about chipping away.
• 39:23
  The little things are imperfections and we're never gonna be perfect.
• 39:26
  We may do the same thing again as humans, but it's that combination of leveraging the friends and brothers, not judging each other, sitting in a place of, I can't fix you, but I'm not gonna judge you and I'm there for you.
• 39:45
  In this ever connected world, when we're staring at our phones and we're not even connecting on the little things in life, that leaves a really big gaping hole of emptiness for so many.
• 39:59
  I never want this to sound like I'm blasting technology.
• 40:02
  The the phone's never going away, AI's never going away.
• 40:05
  These things will be with us forever.
• 40:08
  But that human to human connection, the power of that or sometimes the lack thereof, very significant.
• 40:18
  I love James Clear.
• 40:19
  He's an influencer and an author.
• 40:20
  He talks a lot about the 1% improvement every day.
• 40:26
  He said it doesn't make sense to continue wanting something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get it.
• 40:34
  if you wanna live the lifestyle, then release yourself from the desire to crave the result, but not the process is to guarantee disappointment.
• 40:44
  To crave the result, but not the process is to guarantee disappointment.
• 40:49
  That's really good.
• 40:52
  Really good ties right in with Scotty.
• 40:55
  It really does.
• 40:56
  It does.
• 41:01
  What time period would you most like to vacation to?
• 41:06
  I don't need to go very far.
• 41:08
  I think I'd go right back into the eighties.
• 41:11
  I, I, I would, good memories.
• 41:13
  There's some good memories of the eighties.
• 41:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:14
  You know, I think it was, Some freedom to the way I grew up.
• 41:20
  going out and playing with your friends.
• 41:23
  The, the riding my bike around town, the, You weren't getting a phone call to, to, to come home.
• 41:30
  You, you at a time.
• 41:31
  You were supposed to be back and you, you better figure it out.
• 41:34
  You, you, you guessed to get there close enough, right?
• 41:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:36
  Um, don't be late for, yeah.
• 41:38
  Yeah.
• 41:38
  So, you know, that's a time period that, that holds a, a pretty special for me growing up.
• 41:44
  Um, I'd go back there.
• 41:48
  You and I miss about the eighties.
• 41:50
  We didn't base our compassion for each other on our politics.
• 41:55
  I wouldn't have been able to tell you what my parents were growing up.
• 41:58
  Right.
• 41:58
  I had no idea.
• 41:59
  Didn't matter.
• 42:00
  Someone, someone plunked a yard sign in our front yard.
• 42:03
  My dad pulled that and I said, what's the big deal?
• 42:05
  He said, this is no one's business.
• 42:07
  Yeah.
• 42:07
  We don't advertise this.
• 42:09
  We, we go and vote.
• 42:10
  We do our civic duty.
• 42:13
  And now we, well, if you don't agree with me and I don't know, then we can't be friends.
• 42:16
  Can't be friends.
• 42:17
  We, we gotta pull that back together.
• 42:20
  That is, it is so, so ridiculous.
• 42:22
  this is not who we are as people.
• 42:25
  And you know, you look at, the major arguments are, even.
• 42:30
  More often than not, we're on the same page on 98% of the stuff.
• 42:34
  So it, it, it's, that's the stuff that's getting lost.
• 42:38
  it'd be nice to get rid of that.
• 42:41
  Is there a product that you miss that's no longer sold?
• 42:46
  Uh, wood hockey sticks.
• 42:48
  what brand?
• 42:49
  I used all different ones, but I was a Christian brothers one growing up, but they're, they're no longer around, I don't think.
• 42:56
  Uh, at least not.
• 42:57
  Um, but there was something about the wood hockey stick that was Just better.
• 43:03
  It's a sound to it, too.
• 43:04
  Sound to it.
• 43:05
  You could curve'em a little bit with a little heat.
• 43:09
  Um, in the garage.
• 43:11
  Slat.
• 43:11
  Yeah, the garage thing, or use them out on the street afterwards.
• 43:15
  Yes.
• 43:15
  And they wear themselves down, but they would still be good.
• 43:19
  Uh, I miss the wood hockey stick.
• 43:23
  What job would you find impossible to do?
• 43:26
  No matter how much it pays?
• 43:29
  I could not be a skyscraper window cleaner or anything up high, high in the air.
• 43:35
  I am not good with heights, so flying's okay, though.
• 43:39
  Well, obviously I, I, I can fly if I'm enclosed.
• 43:42
  I'm, I'm okay.
• 43:43
  And I've even done a, a few other things up in the air like that, but the idea of climbing up in.
• 43:49
  Either building or cleaning windows or something like that.
• 43:52
  And willfully climbing over.
• 43:53
  Yes.
• 43:54
  Not a, not a chat.
• 43:55
  Okay.
• 43:56
  Heights, uh, extreme heights, uh, are, are not good for me.
• 44:01
  What is a rule you've made for yourself?
• 44:05
  well.
• 44:06
  To not drink is a rule I made for myself.
• 44:09
  Um, that's an important rule.
• 44:11
  It's an important rule for me.
• 44:12
  How is it for you, you, and I know it's a, it's a journey.
• 44:15
  Yeah.
• 44:15
  It's not like you just turn that switch off and say, well, that was easy.
• 44:18
  It's, it's tough.
• 44:19
  But how do you, how do you manage that?
• 44:22
  Um, I manage it pretty well.
• 44:25
  What, you know, for me, uh, the biggest fear originally of giving it up, um.
• 44:34
  Was what it would do from a social standpoint.
• 44:38
  So much of my interactions with friends just in, in being, were revolved around drinking.
• 44:45
  So, you know, that was, that was a huge fear of mine.
• 44:49
  Um, I've learned.
• 44:53
  I don't have to be the last one to stay, stay somewhere.
• 44:56
  I, I can go home when I, when I want to.
• 44:58
  Isn't it nice to not be that guy anymore?
• 45:00
  It is, it is.
• 45:01
  You know, I, I wake up in the morning and I feel good sleep better, all of everything.
• 45:05
  Sleep, everything like that.
• 45:08
  Um, I mean, that's, that's been my, my big rule.
• 45:11
  'cause if I, if I don't do that, my next few choices are usually gonna be better.
• 45:18
  Um, you know, I wake up in the morning.
• 45:21
  Do my little, my little prayer in my head of, you know, I'm a big fan of the acceptance prayer, and that's kind of where I, I start and begin my days with, and, puts me in the right frame of mind of what's, what's gonna happen moving forward and make that choice and that rule.
• 45:38
  Don't, don't drink and the rest, rest should go well.
• 45:44
  two times.
• 45:45
  Stanley Cup winner Olympic silver medalist.
• 45:48
  Inducted into the US Hockey Hall of Fame in 2023.
• 45:52
  Jamie Lang and Brenner.
• 45:53
  It has been a pleasure and a privilege having you in studio with us.
• 45:58
  I really enjoyed it.
• 45:58
  And you know, this is a, a simple conversation that touches on things and you know, I think one thing I want people to understand is just have a conversation, you know.
• 46:12
  Can start with the simplest of things and it morphs into who knows, don't, don't have expectations on it, and enjoy, as you said, the process of having conversation.
• 46:26
  Well said, and thanks for sharing your story.
• 46:28
  I.