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Is a Perfect Score Possible in Competitive Dance? · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Scoring is a hot topic in the competitive dance world, and everyone is always curious how judges get to a certain score.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the biggest questions we've gotten over the years is whether a perfect score is even possible in competitive dance.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Two IDA judges are joining us today to give their perspective on that elusive perfect score.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_05: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_05: Hi Courtney, it is May 1st.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: What is that?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, the season's almost over already.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a great season.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's been busy.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen such good dance and have a couple more um events from myself coming up, and then it's summer, and then we do this all over again.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, I can't believe it.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like we have been saying on the podcast, can't wait for competition season, can't wait for competition season.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: Now we're at the end of it already.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm sad.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_05: But it goes by so fast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: And granted, there is an Nationals is coming up for anyone that is participating in nationals.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: I know a lot of studios do.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: There are a lot of IDA affiliated competitions who will be holding their own nationals and uh a lot of judges that will be out and about this summer.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: So I hope that everyone is enjoying the judges' feedback that they're getting at competition, enjoying the experience at competition.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe your season is already over.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_05: I know some studios who compete way earlier in the season, and then May is recital time for them.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless of where you are in your dance season, we hope you've enjoyed it and we hope that you are looking forward to a great summer.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but before we get into anything else, we have some Making the Impact Awards to talk about.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, we do our wonderful, fabulous IDA Making the Impact Judge's Choice Awards that are given out at all IDA affiliated competition events that have at least one IDA judge on the panel.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_05: You could be the recipient of this fabulous Judge's Choice Award that goes to just one dance out of the entire weekend that your judges want to recognize through their amazing technique, choreography, execution, performance.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's that one dance they cannot stop thinking about.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: And we are thrilled to make this possible, sponsored by the podcast, and with the help of our IDA affiliated competitions that support impact dance adjudicators.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's hear our very first winner.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: From High Demand Dance Competitions Event in Hartford, Connecticut, congrats to Dance Revolution Inc.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: from Slate Hill, New York, and Dancer Quinn for their solo Fawn.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: From Oro Dance Competitions event in Portland, Oregon, congrats to Crescendo Dance Studio from Esticata, Oregon for their small group 13 Reasons Why.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: From Elevation on Tours event in Canapolis, North Carolina, congrats to the Worship Movement from Huntersville, North Carolina for their small group, Better Days.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: Congratulations to all of our recent Making the Impact winners at IDA affiliated competitions.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_05: And be sure to register your award if you were a recent recipient so you can hear your shout-out live on the podcast.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And before we jump into anything else, once again, we have to hear from our sponsors.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: Moving through a competitive dance season comes with a lot of excitement, along with a lot of top-level goals.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes as you find yourself saying straighten your knees or use your turnout, does it feel like the progress doesn't match the work?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let me introduce you to relative motion.
• 3:52
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• 3:57
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• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: Relative motion simplifies the mind-body connection.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like turning a light bulb onto your student's training.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it actually is that instant.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: But the best part is the relative motion training program, which cues all of their exercises with both anatomical terms and coordinating colors.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: So dancers of every age and every level have access to understanding what the goal is and how to get there.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can access relative motion through their online teacher training programs, starting with Tiny Technicians for ages three to eight, the Total Technique Academy for ages nine and up, and the Props Advantage, integrating prop training into your studio effectively.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: Follow them on Instagram at Relative Motion Dance to see their program in action.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then head to relative motiondance.com to get started.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: An exclusive for our listeners, use our podcast promo code Impact10 in all caps to receive an additional 10% off any of their online teacher training programs, or$400 off for your in-studio workshop.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because you were just one step away from your strongest season ever with relative motion.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, Dance World, we're back with our next episode over here on Making the Impact.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_05: And this is gonna be a fun one because today we're talking all about the perfect score at competition.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if it's possible.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_05: I have actually given a few perfect scores, but have you out there in podcast world, all of our listeners, all of the dancers, dance teachers, studios, have you ever received a perfect score?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Are we throwing them out like candy?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: Are they even obtainable?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna talk about it right here on the podcast with two guests straight from the IDA roster.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: One is a returning guest, one is a brand new guest to the pod.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna introduce our brand new guest to the pod, who is also a brand new judge onto our roster this season on Impact Dance Adjudicators.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_05: They have been an experienced dance educator in the industry for so many years.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: They've been judging all over the place this season for IDA, jumping in like crazy.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: I'm thrilled to have them on the roster and here on the podcast, meeting them for the first time.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_05: Please welcome Sally Cofield to the podcast.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome, Sally.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, thank you so much, Courtney.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your beautiful intro.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, thank you.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I love welcome.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Love being here this year.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's been amazing and getting to go out there and honestly just see so many different competitions.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's been amazing.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a great experience.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you really have.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_05: You've you've dabbled in a lot of different comps this year at IDA.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, fun fact for all of our listeners out there, and I don't know if you guys know this, but you know, a lot of judges that uh go out for different competition events, a lot of times they need last-minute replacements.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: And Sally has been a fantastic last-minute jump-in judge.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: Whenever we need somebody, Sally raises her hand and says, I am here and available.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: And guess what?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: She goes out there wherever she needs, flying around, driving around to different competitions.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_05: And that is a real thing for our industry because, you know, a lot of people book another job or get sick or have an emergency.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_05: And we need somebody to fill that seat.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_05: And over here at IDA, that's a service we provide, but we also have vetted pre-screened background track judges over here, y'all.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_05: So Sally, I'm so glad it all worked out where you've been judging like crazy this season through IDA.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_05: And if you could share with the world more about you, where you grew up, your early dance life, how you got into the judging world, any career credits, and what you're working on now.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've been dancing since I was five.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I started training at a dance studio in San Luis Obispo, California.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And my dance teacher was uh very well known in Los Angeles.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the dancers that come from her studio are now owning uh competitions and have professionally choreographed, and we're all in, they're all still really, they're big names.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I won't say them, but they're big names.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um we, I just accredit my dance passion to her.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, she passed away of cancer years ago, and that's touched my heart a lot and just been a very special thing.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: But after that, went to LA, um, toured Europe, did the professional thing, got married.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was a director for Disney for about eight years.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: My dancers were a group that would perform and open for concerts when the Disney artists would come to Sacramento.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Jonas Brothers, we've opened for about three times, and uh Demi Lovato, Vanessa Hudgens.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever we had Disney events, my dancers would do intros and games and or do a big stage performance.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: We just a lot of different things.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a master's in education, a bachelor's in dance.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I directed a high school program in Sacramento for about 13 years and was also the dance team coach and the dance teacher, um, which is why I love this topic today, because of that hundred.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I've I've got some facts that will back up my reasoning for my hundred score or my perfect score that we've given.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not just not just, you know, a gray area.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that I can help with that.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but started judging, gosh, 15 years ago when someone suggested, why aren't you a judge?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're so great at giving positive feedback.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have the Disney brack background.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, okay, and it's extra some income that I needed at the time.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So started with one company, was with them a long time, then started kind of just branching off to other competitions and loving it.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And now as I'm older, I'm here in Tennessee now.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I left California about three years ago and just full-time judging now.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: This this is what I do now.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I love to give that feedback and just help dancers shine and grow.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_05: I love hearing about your dance journey.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's so great.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I also learned before we started recording that you have chickens in Tennessee.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have chickens, and I never thought I would have chickens.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're actually friendly, really, really friendly.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: They all have names.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: They come when I call them, they actually think they're dogs.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: They come in the house and get treats, and we get eggs, I guess, because eggs are so expensive.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I have eggs, you know, off the face of them.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's a dream.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_05: And I hear those are delicious eggs too.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think the last thing I did on my credits was a music video for the Struts called Dancing in the Streets, and that was right before I left California.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was 49.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just so you can look at that and find me having fun in that video.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I love that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_05: So fun.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Sally.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: We're happy to have you here.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm happy to be here.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_05: Our next special guest is a returning guest, and you may remember them from last season, season five, episode 176, Minis Who Peak Too Early, which was one of our hottest topics of that season.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_05: And she is back this time around, and this time she's an IDA judge.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_05: She just joined our roster this season, so we're so thrilled to have her.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited to welcome back Kristen Danielle to the podcast.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm really excited to be back and to uh talk about talk about perfect scores, whether we give them or not give them.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I already am in a mind frame that I don't give perfect scores.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very interested to see where it's where this all goes and how it unfolds.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I am too.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: It's gonna be a fun chat.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_05: So um, I know you've been doing a lot of judging recently, Kristen.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: I know you teach all the time.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: You have students that are competing as well, so you've been on all sides of this industry and table when it comes to scoring.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm excited to hear your perspective.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: But if you wouldn't mind reminding the listeners out there more about you.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm Kristen Danielle.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: I am based in St.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Pete, Florida.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've been teaching for, I guess, 19 years now, after I did the math on that one.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I judge for the last four years.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I recently uh started my own preschool dance business about a year ago.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also write a monthly blog for Apollo performance.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly just dance teaching or tips and things like that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of where I'm at uh at the moment.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_05: And you've been having a good, busy season?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: So, so with your students and yeah, yeah, all around.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very busy, but good.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we're happy to have you back on the podcast and officially on the IDA roster as a judge this season.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: So yay! Let's jump into this perfect score chat.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_05: Perfect scores.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I I already am so excited.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so excited because this is such a hot topic.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people are always really curious.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what goes into scoring?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, scoring is just sort of like a mystery, I feel like, for a lot of people on the outside of the business.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this might help shed some light onto the mindset of judges.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you know, not every, we're not a monolith.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of us.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of different opinions, and that's the beauty of our our business is that you do get a lot of opinions.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can take some and you can leave some.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see what everybody thinks about this.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do y'all think?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: How like how often does it even occur in your experience that perfect scores are given?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that it's happening all the time or is it really rare in your experience?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Rare.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I find it rare.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Very rare.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Very rare.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I do as well.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: If it happens, it's magical.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that moment that you've just got the hairs on the back of your neck and you cannot find a deduction, literally.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in my opinion, everyone starts with 100 and it's about just deducting from that point on.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: If there's nothing that you can back up in your critique or find to deduct, then you kind of sit there at the end going, okay, I'm I'm really not wanting, not supposed to give a perfect score, but I have no reason or you know, to back me up.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's rare, very rare.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's extremely rare.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna just start off by saying that it's rare, however.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_05: For me this season, it wasn't.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that that is what kind of sparked this episode discussion because I was like, this is unheard of.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_05: I, you know, a lot of people will say no one's perfect, no dancer's ever perfect.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_05: You can never be perfect.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: We're always learning, we're always growing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_05: There's always something that you can find.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: But I couldn't believe that I threw I've thrown three perfect scores this season, you guys.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_05: I can't believe it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: I know.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: One was at the same event.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, what city was that?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_05: Just as that was recently in San Marcos, Texas.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_05: Texas, okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: And it was two groups.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Good talent.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it was extremely high caliber talent.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that on my scenario of my perfect score, just to give some little like backstory, and this happened recently.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: So if anyone was at the streets event, maybe you saw these two dances.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_05: They were in two different categories.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: They were both senior level dances.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_05: One was contemporary, one was a hip-hop group.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: Great.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: So extremely on top groups.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: The the entire competition.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: How do you compare a con a contemporary to a hip-hop?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: When you're going into overalls, they executed what they were given so flawlessly with impeccable foundational technique in the genre that they were given.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: And the choreographer displayed that, and that the dancer's technical foundation displayed that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then the performance was on top of it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then you're hunting, you're literally looking for things wrong, like you said, Sally.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: And I sat, I just sat back and watched it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_05: I I was so invested in this.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_05: You forget to talk, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: You just like have those moments.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've had that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: And of course, like I think that if I've really wanted to like analyze it and look at, oh, your foot was turned in there.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, of course, I'm not gonna take off a half of a point for a foot turned in because the experience that I got from watching that felt perfect to me.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_05: I I didn't think that there was a way you said that better.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like that the way you said the experience you got from watching that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was a great way to say that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_05: I think it felt very total package where you're left wondering how how could you make this better?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_05: And I couldn't think of anything.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: So then I was like, well, then it was perfect in this moment, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: It was perfect right here, right now for me.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: And it knowing that you are 16 years old, you're training dancers, and you aren't professionals, but I felt like I was watching professionals.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they deserved that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And clearly they worked really hard on cleaning.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say that in my critique.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I will say, I can tell that you have spent hours and hours cleaning this for a group number to get 100.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think my perfect scores have only gone to solos.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I disagree.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would rather give a perfect score to a group as the collective because they all brought their talents together versus one person receiving a perfect score and then them thinking like, oh, I'm perfect now.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's nothing for me to work on.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So much easier, I think.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: And in even with groups, like I probably have only given a couple.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I know I haven't given any for this season, but you know, last season I definitely gave a couple, but it was it just the choreography, the execution of the choreography, the technical skills of the dancers, the the concept that they brought, the way that it made you feel when you were watching it, everything you said, Courtney.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it just as a group, you came together to make this perfect.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so difficult for me when I'm watching a solo to think you just made this perfect all by yourself.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: That there wasn't any, I couldn't find anything about it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's I I think I always feel like there's something.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think solos just have less to assess.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's easy to easy to find than there's more flaws in a group number that can happen, but I agree with you.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I like that what you're saying.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're recognizing more and they came together more harder.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like that makes that makes a lot of sense.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I've I can remember one group number I gave a perfect score to.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was at a nationals in Connecticut, and it was just like you said, it was like there's nothing I could and the story, everything about it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was just finding myself just so into it, and it was over.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, oh my gosh, I don't think I've even didn't even say anything because it was so good and it wasn't anything.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, solo wise, it's just easier because it happens more often, I would say, even though it doesn't happen often, because there's less to assess.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree with that too.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too that like when the I think you hear you hear this all over the the internet.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's quotes that happen during this season about this is three people's opinions on one day, and tomorrow could be different.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the exact same thing.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: That that dance, the next day, Courtney, right could be might not have been a perfect score that day because of what your mindset, your, you know, the day you had like all the things.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it really is one of those diamonds in the rough of you know, all these circumstances outside of even just the dance came together to make you want to give them a perfect score in that moment.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there's three or four judges.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe one judge gives a perfect score, but the other, I think, oh, the other two are probably not.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just gonna balance out to something just below.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so I kind of always usually assume no one else is gonna give it, I guess.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I guess in yeah, I know, I know what you mean by that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: I in these scenarios for us, I learned that we all gave a perfect score, which is both of those dances got a perfect 300, which is in insane.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_05: That is insane.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_05: That is insane.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: But we all felt the same thing.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_05: Like we tried to do that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Did you all look at each other at that moment?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: You look at each other, oh my gosh, what do we do?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_05: What?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I just I couldn't, I couldn't think of anything else.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm gonna share my other perfect score moment from this season as well while we're here.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: And mine actually was to a soloist, which is surprising because we just talked about, you know, the solo aspect.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_05: But this dancer was seven years old, and he's who peeked too early, like your last episode, Kristen.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: But I swear, based on, and you know, we're always supposed to judge what is in front of us, yeah, right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_05: That is what everyone tells us in the industry.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_05: Don't penalize the dancer for our teacher's mistake.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, what if the teacher didn't make any mistakes?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: And what if the dancer is executing it to its best potential for their age, and per every single aspect of it was delivered.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then it's perfect in my brain.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, and and again, you're seven years old and you have so much to learn and do.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_05: But based on what was delivered and what I saw presented, there was not a single flow that I could find.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_05: And and and it was more so of the investment of the story for a seven-year-old to understand how to perform to that level and maturity at seven years old, and it wasn't inappropriate.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: And we have a lot of discussions about that too.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Is the theme going over their head?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Is do they even know what they're dancing about?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: They knew.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: They knew exactly what they were dancing about, and you could tell.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_05: And it was just like, I couldn't believe it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: I couldn't believe I was watching a seven-year-old.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: And in that moment, I was just like, now, granted, this same seven-year-old had other solos that I did not score perfect.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: So I was I do.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the right fit for the dancer, like that piece in itself.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: She's the dancer scored high, but not perfect.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: This dance in particular was that the it checked off every box for me for a seven-year-old dance.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, this is unbelievable.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, your jaw is truly on the floor.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_05: And there wasn't really the only come uh only feedback I gave choreographically was there was a little bit too much of the same leg extension, always that right leg, you know.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: And that was the only bit of feedback that I gave.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: And this dancer knows they probably listen.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: The mom might be listening, and that's fine.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because you listened to my critique.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: You know that that was a critique I gave.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying anything out of the ordinary.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: We see that often, but that was my only bit of criticism.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_05: And that wasn't even a dancer's fall.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_05: So it was very interesting.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I that's funny.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: I will never forget that.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my very first hundred that I gave was to a soloist, and it was oh gosh, I want to say at least 10 years ago.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll name the kid because he was on the Ellen show.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: His name's Gavin Morales.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone know who he is?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard that name.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that first hundred I gave I was literally like he would stop eight pirouettes on releve and then just develop out of it and breathe through it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just like the whole entire time.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So he's been on the Ellen show, and you can look up probably Gavin Morales Ellen and you'll see his little spot.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's one of those that took my breath away.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there was not a deduction.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: His musicality was there, the choreography was there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't repeat.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then to be honest, on top of that, I was impressed because at the end of the day, him and his dad, and he was a self-taught dancer, his sister would take classes.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: He would teach himself learning in the window watching class.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: They just came up at the end, you know, before awards, no awards had been given.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they just said, I just want to say thank you for judging and appreciate your time.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, so so respectful.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: But that kid, I've never forgotten that.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he just, yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_05: There's those dancers you'll never forget, or those dances that you'll never forget.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: Even if you didn't give it a perfect score.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_05: There's the the and I think that's an important aspect of like why we compete.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's not always about winning.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's about moving the people in the audience so much that it's so memorable.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I've definitely felt that a lot this season in particular, but in my entire judging career.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's my deduction sometimes, is like the with a missing element.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only missing element.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just didn't pull a heartstring.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about people uh scoring systems because I think a lot of people are confused by that and like why it's actually sometimes really, really hard to get to some of these higher scores.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kristen, can you kind of in your experience, like where where are the scores kind of living?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you experienced a system where you're like, dang, I can't, I can't get to that highest score because it's just so minute up there, like your allowance.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it it's more with whatever particular competition that you're you're working in, because everybody has a different scoring system in that you can be on a system where there's only one score you can possibly give.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: One number one number that's that's being put through into the system.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I can say that that is difficult to have to deal with because there's no breakdown.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you as the teacher, as the student, and you're trying to assess your score and how you're able to do better, it's kind of difficult.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, did I get this because my technique was really good?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Did I get this because you know my artistry was really good?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did I get this versus the comps that actually break down technique or choreographic execution, uh, you know, overall impression, things like that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's easier to find even to a near perfect score.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would be the near perfect score person, but it's a lot easier to let to have a student and a teacher see that when the scores are able to be broken down.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it is quite difficult when you're only giving that one number and then they're just like, Well, why did I get that?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Even you listen to the critiques and you're still like, I don't understand why I thought that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a very clear when I assess my own students from competition, you know, I'm looking at the techniques where okay, this judge gave you this, this judge gave you that, this is a good number from this judge.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let's work to try to get this number for everybody at the next competition or you know, whatever it might be.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: The breakdown is a lot, is a lot easier.
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• 27:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and something that I I feel like that I think about often when I'm judging.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_05: I love a broken down score because I feel like it backs me up on records.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and I is it more work for us?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, in the in that moment, we everybody knows when you're sitting in the audience how fast the turnover is between a dancer walking off stage and the next dancer's music starting.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_05: We have a lot to do.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_05: Our brain is working hard.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_05: And now we're practically doing math, even though all these tabulation softwares do help us now.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_05: But I think that what's interesting is it's really hard to because e again, each judge kind of is in their own mindset of their score, and we can't see what the other judges are doing.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_05: But let's we all kind of this is how I do it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: I watch a dance, I'm like, that's a platinum dance.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, it's not a double platinum, it's not a what diamond, whatever.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's living in the platinum.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe the platinum range out of a hundred for me is between a ninety-two and a ninety-five, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: So now I have to figure out that breakdown.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe maybe sometimes if technique and performance are the highest weighted scores in that broken down score, some people might have different perspectives.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like I know that I think their technique was better than their performance, and I want to reflect that in this the broken down score.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: But just because I'm still trying to get to the platinum, I have to tweak everywhere else to make it work.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and that's how this works.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_05: And that's it's kind of hard to wrap your head around.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_05: But maybe I think that they needed like a 26.5 in technique, and then I I put their performance score at a 20.2, but the other judge gave a 28 in technique, but that doesn't necessarily but they still also gave them a platinum adjudication.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_05: So it doesn't necessarily mean that that judge thought the other that they had better technique.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_05: It just means we're all trying to get to a platinum together, right?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: And each judge individually has their own breakdown of the ranges in the subdivisions together.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: And that is so good.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's decimals.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, yes, the decimals kill me.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And even though we're not really doing the math anymore, but like don't forget, we used to have to.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: So we used to have to.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_05: I think before like our tabulation softwares came in and did a lot of help for us, math for us, it used to be more single number scores.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_05: And it used to be like paper tabulation, which like we'd have a calculator and I remember punched things in.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and they couldn't go as fast back then either, but like still.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the one thing that is is difficult though, is like the different scoring systems.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: For example, one of the competitions I work for, in order to get your highest adjudication, you have to score above a 98.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: They have a two-point range.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's hard to achieve.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just really hard.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to get there, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I like that too.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it should be hard to achieve.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really hard to achieve.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're trying to like find somebody to get a 98, at some point you're like, oh my God, is it is it anybody?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just hard to get up there because some people it like you said, Kristen, starts at a 95.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: 95 to 100 sometimes is the range, and you can more easily get to that higher adjudication.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and but are they encouraging you to are like, are does the competition that has the 98 to 100 highest adjudication expect the judges to get there, even if there's a dance that doesn't deserve it?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I think I think they want to recognize what is really true, you know.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you're not getting there, you're not getting there.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the weekend doesn't have a diamond, you know, but but it is it is a little hard because they're like, oh, there's nobody that got a diamond.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But some competitions say, hey, like midway through the day, hey, we haven't had any of those diamonds.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to find at least some somewhere.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Where's our diamond in this group of people?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard because now the people, in my opinion, that have gone earlier, right, have had a disservice possibly because now our brain is thinking differently later in the day of like, well, we have to find these higher scores.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had studios ask me that.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, is it better to go in the beginning of the day or the end in the middle?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, smack in the middle if you can go.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because now we know what the talent is for the weekend.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And some competitions do ask us to find those high scores and it is hard.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: I compare that similar, like as a professional dancer.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's similar in a sense of auditioning because when you go to an audition, if you're first on the list, you're the first impression, you're the, you know, are you setting the talent caliber really high?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_05: They don't know what they're gonna see.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_05: They don't know what's coming.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_05: So they might be like, okay, you were fantastic and we're gonna keep you.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: And then there's some more fierce dancers that come through for the rest of the day.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: And then you come back for callbacks, and guess what?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_05: You're not up to par anymore.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_05: You were up, you were up to par at the beginning of the day, but not anymore.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: And that was just the cards that you got dealt that day.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_05: And even in the professional world, there's a little bit more flexibility sometimes, pending when you sign up for an audition or if you get an a handed a time slot, then you don't have much say.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_05: But a lot I know a lot of dancers in the pro world that are like, I'm going in at the two o'clock group and not the 10 o'clock group, because I wanna, I wanna go out with a bang.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: I want to like really make a good impression, or it could backfire on you because they might have already found the talent that they need at the beginning.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_05: And then they're like, Oh, well, you're great, but we already have enough.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: We're not even looking at you really.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: So I think it in a way, like, you know, competition obviously can't determine your schedule.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_05: You and please, to anyone listening, do not call the competition and say, I want to go later, I don't want to be the first dance.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_05: You can't do that, okay?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_05: I think that like life is oftentimes about these are the cards that you were dealt today at this event at this competition, and you have to make it work for you and like just bring your best performance.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I'm finding more um when I'm judging that the competitions are actually saying, you know, if you're if you're giving a platinum and you find that the platinum is closer to a double platinum, like really be very clear of if you flee if you feel that it's a platinum, give a platinum.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Don't put it so close to the double platinum because then the other two judges might pull it to where you don't want it to go.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: So be more accurate about you know what it is that you're you're truly giving.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's that's been more helpful this season to just be very, very decisive about okay, if I'm giving you this platinum, this is where you fell with the platinum.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want you to be like, oh my gosh, I was only a tenth of a point from a double platinum.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ugh, like and and we don't know what the other judges give, so you never know what they're gonna yeah.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, in that scenario with the scoring, like I I and like you said, I we don't know, but there's some times where I'm like, I'm not sure.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like I'm uncertain.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I think this is where I feel like it belongs, but I don't know how they think.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm gonna leave this right here, kind of toe in the edge, and I'm gonna let them decide.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_05: I mean definitely.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_05: I've definitely done that too because there's some times where I don't know if if if everyone's in agreement with me.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_05: I think if you have a cohesive panel, most of the time everyone's on the same page.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, sometimes there's some oddball things where someone just loves something more than another person, and you're five points across from each other, and then it is gonna blend into the middle.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_05: But if you're cohesive, I think sometimes we're towing, we're towing that line a bit of okay, you're almost there, or you just slipped over the line of that adjudication.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I think there's really nothing wrong with that to hopefully motivate the dancers, and also once you see the final score against everyone, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_05: You can see like, oh, this judge really liked this a little bit more than judge three or whatever it is, and like analyze it that way.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and if your critique is really backing up what you give, like I I am a judge that will sometimes I I'm I'm I think I'm pretty nice.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will, I'm gonna bump you up to that point two over, you know, not the point two under, because I do want to give you that hope.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, like, listen, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you these extra points because of X, Y, and Z, because your performance quality blew me away, but you've really, really, really got to work on that technique.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like some or sometimes it's opposite, you know, because that man, and being on the other side of things, like working in tabulation or working in directors, and you're, you know, you look at the whole thing and you're like, God, everything's a high gold.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, surely, but then you have to look even further and you're like, well, it's high, high gold.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a low high gold.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not everybody is a quote unquote high gold dancer here.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that nobody thought to give them that extra push to bump them up into a low platinum, you know.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So like I think the being able to back it up with what you say is important, you know, to make them really understand, especially if you only have the ones one number to give, like why you got point two under or why you got point two over.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, but I've been in the scenarios and like sometimes I toe the line on purpose in the sense that and I I typically will toe the line on the lower end to create range.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because most of the time everyone is kind of scoring so like uh probably higher because they're afraid to drop down that then it's gonna average up anyway.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm hoping that like, okay, if I if I score one point lower than the adjudication range, because as much as I want to give this that middle tier platinum, we need to find range in this event, like we just talked about.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_05: Just like there's not gonna be enough diamonds, there also is not gonna be enough lower adjudications either.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_05: And then it's hard for us because we don't know what the other judges are pulling.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_05: That where does that score average?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_05: I know I'm finding the range that I need as a judge, but is it all blending together into that final adjudication when it goes into 300?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_05: And that's I think then to the tabulator's job to be like, hey, everything's fallen in the middle range, y'all.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_05: We're not we don't have enough variety of adjudications being presented at this event, you know, because we don't know as judges.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_05: We can't see each other's scores.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: So it is a hard, it is a hard thing to figure out.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_05: I think scoring is the hardest part of judging.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't think that we're ever gonna figure out like the best system.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_05: I judges have such a hard job when you're bouncing from one comp to the next and the adjudication scale and scoring brackets are completely different.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're with completely different people every weekend, because there's times, like you said, when when the panel has been selected sp like really, really well, it's a breeze.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a dream.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: But then when you're like either nobody put thought into this, they just picked whoever was available, you know, and and then you're like, how are we, what are we even giving?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're giving this and I'm giving that, and I didn't, that didn't make any sense.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it can be really hard if you're not on a cohesive panel.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes from like our backgrounds.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I've judged with people obviously for years.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I remember one situation where this judge was contemporary and all they liked was contemporary, and they would throw big scores on contemporary.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else that came on hip-hop, you know, the jazz, especially hip-hop and jazz was like he something against it for some reason.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he would drop the score really low.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I know hip hop.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, he asked me during the break, he's like, How come you gave that such a high score?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I said, because there was a lot of execution of technique and a lot of different choreography elements.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: That that choreographer putting and house and waving and weaving and breaking dance moves.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there were so many, like they were sitting in the pocket.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't, you know, they just don't see that.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I gave, you know, and it's also that, like you said, the the different scores that we have, you know, from being a high school teacher, I was forced to create rubrics, very clear rubrics for giving students a grade in dance.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I would have dancers that parents would call me like, why did you give little Susie, my daughter, 98 out of 100?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's a dancer at this studio and she's amazing.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to create exactly like technique.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you have three mistakes, you get this score, you know, five mistakes, this score.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to make it very black and white.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they took out my opinion.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I use in my thought process when I'm scoring is okay, did I how many technique errors did I really see in this dancer?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Only two.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so really that's a high technique.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: But now showmanship, they didn't give me anything down.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it and and I don't I think if everyone thinks in their scoring of that process, it becomes very black and white as long as it's also talked about in our um critiques.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's helped me.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I love that.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_05: That's really great.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_05: Kristen, I'd love to hear a little bit more on why you aren't really a perfect score giver that frequ that frequently.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_05: Has there been any instances on your end where uh, you know, that that you've your realization to come to that, or has your mind shifted over the years uh as a judge now?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_05: Or have you always been like, yeah, I don't think it's obtainable.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think I'm ever gonna throw it.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that I don't think it could be obtainable.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I just I think it's very, very difficult to really put out a performance that, you know, does all the things.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: The choreography suits the dancer, the technique is executed perfectly, the performance quality, you know, pulls at your heart strings, all the things that we want.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very difficult to see across the board that there's kids doing all of those things, especially with my background with as many minis that I've trained who, you know, really get pushed super hard and then can do these amazing fabulous things.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I see kids who do fabulous all the time.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: And even with them, I still have to drill in some kind of technique or some kind of awareness about what it is that they're doing, how they're performing, how they're connecting.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I just see that as everyone's not doing that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: A really good example, there was a senior guy, I don't remember what city we were in, but he was he was a wonderful.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Did three solos, all three of them were different, and I mean just all three judges.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: We were like, But even after watching the first solo and going into the second, I had made the awareness that like I felt like he wasn't using his arms from his back.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: But nobody else saw that except for me.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going, I see y'all really don't notice that they were like blinded by the light, shoulder, yeah, blinded by all the flashy trick and the we did, you know, the eight turns into the devil pay.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: We got too caught up in that that we're not seeing this other aspect.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's true for a senior dancer, and I in an actual like he was a senior, that's something you need to work on.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that your next place is whether you're going to collegiate dance or you're going into the professional world, that is something you really need to work on.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it became where instead of where the other two judges started giving hundreds for all of these solos, I had to drop it down and keep talking about you know, your arms, your shoulders, your portabras, the way that you're using them and extending through your whole body because it it I can see it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I can see it, and it's it really telling to me that that's not something that you've connected yet as a dancer.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: So right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, even if one person can see it, it matters.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's good they had you on that panel.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tonight.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: I also feel like I see a lot.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: So in that scenario, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like, would your mind have been different with this dancer if they just came out and did one out of the three and just blew everyone's mind?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I could still give the hundred, like maybe 99.9.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've done that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because you've seen in that solo still that there was like a disengagement of the arms from the back, and that would have been your technical critique.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he was wearing a sweatshirt in the dance.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you can see no one else, and I could see it through the sweatshirt.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell when you're wearing sweaty bad uh sweatshirt, baggy pants that like the knees are bent.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is it is super, super telling.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't if he had connected in at least one of those, maybe I would feel different because he really was a brilliant dancer and just beautiful sense of artistry and performance was there, but it's just that one thing I couldn't I couldn't get past because I felt if you're going to go into a professional style company, somebody's gonna see that, somebody's gonna look at that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: You go to turn and this comes up way up here, and it's just it's not all matching for me.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: So and that's a technical and that's part of our critique, it's technique, it's part of the score.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: So if there's a technical flaw if you're technique execution for what was presented, and I think that's the other thing, like there's ways to disguise technical flaws in choreography, and that's the smart choreographer, exactly.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, like you can you can if your teacher and your choreographer is really, really smart about it, you can disguise this dancer's flaws because what what we want to present is our best self, and then when you look at the execution based on what they were given, if they did it technically correct in that, yeah, but you we can still kind of analyze.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: We can see little habits.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_05: We can see little baby details in someone's foundational technique based on the style that's being presented, very much so.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: But it sounds like in that scenario, maybe there could have been a way that the choreographer could have disguised that a little bit better, and that could have ended up resulting in a perfect score.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_05: But probably.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_05: I was kind of asking about the multiple solo thing because I think that that's a big issue in our industry too, is that everyone thinks we need multiple solos for more chances to win.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_05: But in reality, I think that oftentimes we're seeing you more.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna see more of the solos.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna see now we'll be pickier.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be pickier now.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, even more so.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: The more solos I see you do, the pickier I get about what you're giving me, the more I notice if you've received the same choreographer for all three of your solos.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: You can tell the same trick, the same turn, the same leg, the same leap, the same, you know, combination of whatever it is.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I saw that in your last solo.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that in your last solo, I saw that in your last solo.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to see it again.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And like then you go into the street.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're saying it because we're annoyed, but we're also saying it to help you.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I hate having to say that over and over again sometimes.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: You get into those weekends where you're like, oh, this step again.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know, I know this is your step.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is the studio step this season.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you're working on.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's great.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like remember your audience and remember, not, you know, yes, why we're here is a lot of reasons, but some of why you're here is to get corrections and feedback.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you give me the same thing over and over again, that will be part of your feedback.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is right please diversify your offerings.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_05: And if it's done wrong, like we're gonna tell you every time it's done wrong.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like you think it's right, but you're putting it in here because you think this is your strength, but you're doing it wrong every time.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: A low, a low releve in your 500 pirouettes.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's like you're a great turner, you have a great center, your arms are clean.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, but have you checked out that bottom supporting leg?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_05: That's barely off the ground, that knee is bent, but you're smiling through it and you did a beautiful finish.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_05: You know, like there's there's parts of the execution of that pirouette that were great.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_05: But if you're gonna do it every single time, we're gonna analyze it more and more and more and more to a point where actually your score oftentimes goes down.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_05: Or when you present more solos, or sometimes just stays right at the same.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's the same darn solo I just watched five minutes ago.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like give the variety.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had one comp and these, I think it was their senior dancers, they came out for groups, and the girls were great, they were absolutely amazing and wonderful turners, wonderful turners, leaps for you know, into the sky kind of thing.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: But then I got really excited about seeing their solos.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in the solo, it's like I'm expecting what I saw in those group dances, the way that you're turning, the way that you're putting out, and it was a little bit of a hot mess.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was more like they being together felt more confident and and secure in their abilities dancing as a group than they were individually in their solos.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very hard to think you can find that perfect score when now I'm really seeing you by yourself and and it's it's not it's not matching up.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: So then it turned into a constant correction of like, okay, if you guys want, like you are good turners.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can see you find the center every single time.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: But there's little tweaks, little things here and there that need to be worked out for it to be consistent.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because the way that you guys turn together as a group, you should be able to turn like this when you're by yourself.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: So then it's like now I can't give you I can't give you a perfect score.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even think about giving you a perfect score because that expectation has already been placed there when you were with your group.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Which is why I find giving the giving the group a perfect score a lot easier than to give the individual.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's wow, that is such an interesting perspective.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I ever would have thought of it that way, but you're so right.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: And it's important too, I think, when it comes to solos and perfect scores.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like we talk all the time about how you're never going to be a soloist in this world.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_05: And I and I Nine times out of ten.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I think it is extremely exciting for a group to get a perfect score because, like you said, the team aspect, it took so much more more energy from a collective group of people to get to this point, not even just in execution, but then the the vision of the choreographer and then the quality of the training that the studio is providing, not just how many private lessons is this soloist taking to get their technique to this level.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_05: And how many days about like this individual is taking like you see it as a whole picture under one studio umbrella and everyone has to deliver at the same technical quality.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like in the perfect score groups that I've given, I couldn't find someone messing up or having less energy or or not executing the foundational technique the same because they were all trained so well.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's an important because again, you can disguise weaker links in choreography.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: You can kind of figure out ways to highlight strengths in choreography.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: But again, this for me, uh and we talk about what's in the dancer's hands so much.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_05: Perfect scores are a combination of dancer and choreographer.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_05: And that choreographer like knew what they were doing to get these dancers to do what what they did best and showcase them their best.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm probably never awarding a perfect score to a dance that is choreographed like a formula routine or choreographed like I've seen it already earlier this weekend.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_05: It has to be like innovative and different, and there's gotta be something special about the choreography too, not just in the it's not just about the dancers anymore in that perfect score, you know?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's like it's such a fine line because everyone like it's just about the dancers, but it's like, no, that's why I'm I'm very much against that.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, this is a collective effort to get here.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_05: There is there are multiple people involved.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_05: There are adults and professionals evolved to get here.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: You deserve to be scored as well or critiqued as well.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_05: And that's why perfect scores do exist sometimes because the teachers and the choreographers really delivered.
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• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the teachers, if you know your dancers, you know how to costume them correctly, the whole package.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say in my critiques, I said, to be that national winning routine, really your job as a dancer in the most basic form is to be a visual representation of the music.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see the music.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes from the choreographer, that comes from your textures that you're matching.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is this sound in the music a staccato?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are you executing that movement in a staccato?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you just kind of vanilla all the way through?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: And every single aspect has to be perfect for that perfect score.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, but I really think that if they just think about that, being the music, I need to be the music.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: The music feels like this right here.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the choreographer gave me this that feels like it.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I need to execute it like that sounds.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole package, like transitions are a big thing too, that I think people dance back from their perfect score.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think dancers forget that you're still dancing through even a walk over here.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they just kind of all of a sudden it's just like blow.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're and then they go into their technique.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I always talk about be aware that you don't have technique face going into your technical elements.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they're all like in the character, and then all of a sudden they go, technical.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the breadth, like you're showing me the work that it took to get here.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, boom.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to tell me.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just those little things I think that uh take away from them being the music the whole time.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, that's that's those are the things that I would I always look for in the higher level dancers that separate the really those perfect scores, you know.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_05: Leslie, have you ever given a perfect score?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I do not give perfect scores.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm similar, I'm similar to Kristen in that I just I just don't because I think like like I said, you know, perfect to me, I think doesn't exist generally, but oh subjective.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: If it did, if I'm giving a perfect score, I would want to see, I would want to see you seven days a week do this exactly the same way.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want consistency if I'm gonna say something is perfect, and I don't know that that's really attainable at in in the world that we live in.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I also am curious about this too from you guys, because I don't teach as regularly anymore.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: But when somebody does get a perfect score, if you've ever received a perfect score, how does that affect your mindset?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: How does that affect your opinion of yourself?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: How does that affect other people's opinion of you?
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can see it going many different ways.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was a I'm I'm kind of a perfectionist.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I was an A student.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: I got good grades, I got hundreds, you know what I mean?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was, I felt really good about that.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then there were some elements of my life where I was really celebrating passing math.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, this so there's you feel differently about yourself when you're given the opportunity to have a perfect score versus when you're not.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious about y'all's experience with your students.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if anybody is gonna get on their high horse about it versus striving, you know.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I've never had an actual student or group um receive a perfect score, but I do think that it's it's very subjective to say you're perfect as an individual.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because then if you go to the next competition and it's not that, you kind of put a mindset in your head, like I'm perfect.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing I need to do.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: There absolutely is things that you still need to do.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, Leslie's saying, if you're gonna be that, then you need to be practicing this seven times a a week or seven days a week.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's no complacency with perfection.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, like if you've done it once, then you're gonna need to do it again.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Then you're gonna need to do it again.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't I don't know that that's going to happen or might happen, like except for maybe with a very rare few few people who are like a little OCD about it, maybe.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, because I think you're gonna get to that point, especially when you see people who just win anything, period.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you win top overall studio, if you win first place overall, there's almost like a okay, now I can kind of relax.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, can you?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you need to keep working because, like you said, next week it's gonna be a different panel of judges.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's always somebody prettier coming down the stairs behind you.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: So like and you always have to be on it.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that saying that you have to you you you get the perfect score, and then you know, you go to the next place and it that doesn't happen, like exactly it's because you slacked off and you stopped working.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: You thought you were perfect, so you thought you could back off from it.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not about doing it until you get it right.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: I say to my students, you I want you to put in your mindset that you do it until you can't get it wrong.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: To where, you know, if if you are executing, executing, it's like it's a rarity for you to mess it up because you've honed and practiced that that particular skill or technique so often.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a means to say I should back off.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to think that giving the perfect score to a student that was deserving would make them want to think about maintaining that and that it pushed them into that.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't feel like I've seen that with students when they receive a perfect score, especially if they're the kind that receives a perfect score at multiple different competitions.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get to that one where you've got a a hard panel and they don't give that to you, then you start questioning yourself, and then it turns into insecurities and phobias, and that's I don't think that it's healthy to I was just thinking of that.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like just I think as a teacher, being good at coaching your dancers through that and saying, Hey, you got a perfect score this weekend.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Next weekend, you might not.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Different panel, different opinions.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, be really happy for this one, but don't expect it every time, keeping them in that mindset of this is a rarity.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, right.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something too that like has just occurred to me while we're talking about this is once you get to a technical artistic level of being able to even possibly get a perfect score, I'm not even that interested anymore.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I want is to see you take a risk.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: If I if I just see a perfect, perfect, perfect routine, that can almost be kind of sterile and boring.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't pull my heartstrings.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I usually want if I'm seeing somebody that's up at that level where I'm even considering giving you a hundred, I want you, I want you to do one extra turn and then fall out of it and be a little bit late to the next thing, but it's meaningful because you stepped out that like you stepped out, you know, and that's that's what I'd rather see rather than perfection.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're at that level, I want you to now move me because I don't necessarily care about your 25 foises anymore.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like and and like we've a lot of us have judged, many, many technically proficient, just like, man, you guys have this is good.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: You are good.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: You are doing everything right.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then what?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because what good is that gonna do you?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about this all the time in the professional world, you know.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever judged a dance where they've really had not a lot of technique?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was all just so perfect musically.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's for them.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, my favorite is like you don't need to load the technique up, but I think students and stuff studios think you do to win, you don't.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's about your execution and all the other things.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: It really, you know, technique is your execution, it's it's not always turns and and things.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean for oh, go ahead, go ahead, Kristen.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was judging nationals last year, and there were two dances that were going head to head against each other, and one was a very beautiful, technically executed lyrical.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, absolutely gorgeous.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: The lines, everything, it was completely there.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the next dance was a contemporary dance, but it was so emotional because a lot of the kids were seniors in a dance, and that was their last time, and they were all feeling it, and they were on that stage dancing their hearts out, they were crying, I was crying, everybody on the panel was crying.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: And despite that the lyrical really did have that technique behind it, no one felt moved when they watched it.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: No one felt, you know, especially when in the normal national part of the competition, the lyrical dance had won over the contemporary dance.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: But now we're talking it's best of the best.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're, you know, this is okay, the cream of the crap.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Who is really the the showstopper in this?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it wound up being that can heartfelt contemporary dance.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you could just feel it all the way from the back to the front.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was probably thirty kids on stage in this large line dance, and they just put it out there, and you couldn't deny or or take away from them that they deserved that win over the technical execution.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I absolutely agree with that that there is a point where you can look sterile, you can look like a robot.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is just it's it, you know, we don't need Stepford wife dancers.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, well, and that's why we, you know, like I we talk about this, and I think this is like needs to be a conversation for next season too, Courtney, even more than we already have, is you know, UDA is a real thing, and some of that work is so clean and perfect.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what those dancers are are trying to do, right?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because they really do have a rubric.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: They have check boxes.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's how that is scored.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm not moved by any of that.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, of course I want to see 30 dancers executing, you know, perfect turns and into a leap into the aerial and the whatever.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a it's really technically proficient and I'm impressed.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's why I live in this world of our our dance world where there is the artistry factor because my heart, like we're human beings, dance was is for humans to express themselves, not not do a beautiful turn sequence, you know, like that's amazing.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, I want you, I want that for you.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's power dancing.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: I call it power dancing.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because it just like goes go, go, go, go, go, trick, turn, flip.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the feature with the big beautiful turn jump backflip combo.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like but you think about does music tell you to do that?
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, this music is not telling you, okay, do this.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, it might be telling you to do an undulation because there's a weird violin sound if that's what it's telling you to do.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love when, but that's choreography too for us.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the dancer's fault at that point.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_05: But again, it really is a total package when it comes back to perfect.
• 1:01:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that being moved and feeling something when you're watching and and the intention, the intention layer to a performance is when it takes it to the next level, whether it's perfect or whether it's winning first at the final shebang that you were talking about at Nationals, right?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like the the power of the performance and and everyone understanding what we're dancing about, what this story is, we're all on the same page.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_05: There's no questions.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_05: We are the moment you step foot on that stage, you're you're a character.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_05: You are in the performance.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_05: In it, yeah, and that is really that extra layer of a true, like professional.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_05: You are all you are about to be there.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_05: And with when I keep referencing back to these two that I saw, the contemporary dance that got the perfect score was straight up like couldn't be less of a competition dance.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_05: It was like you were at you were in Europe, you were watching a professional dance, contemporary company in socks with knee pads on, with very unique, like gender-neutral style costuming that was just obscure, and the music I've never heard in my life.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like everything about it was just So it's not I Have Nothing by Whitney Houston.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, right, like rise up, rise up.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_05: That one.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's just it's I think like with that, again, you have to like know know your audience, but also like this was so different than your stereotypical dance that you see at competition with with intention and performance and good choreography and great execution and good technique, that it's gonna be a showstopper because of of just that.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_05: Whereas a lot of people think that like this is what the judges want.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, the judges want this, the judges want that, the judges want that.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes being different is what's gonna make you stand out.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_05: And if you know what your strengths are as a studio, the studio was very classically trained and very into the more contemporary modern world.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_05: And that is their studio vibe.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_05: But when they presented that and executed it flawlessly, it blew it blew our minds.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_05: But we kind of hinted at like maybe some, and and that's why we said it might not be perfect every time because of the panel.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe all of the panel of judges on that one love contemporary dance and were so moved by it.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe the next time you're gonna get a a group of hip-hop dancers that don't even understand what in the world this art is, and they're like, What did I just watch?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_05: They didn't even do anything, they just rolled around on the floor.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, yes, they did, but they did it with intention and purpose and technique and you know all the things, and you get passionate about it, and you're trying to like convince someone else why this art deserves perfection or deserves first place.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_05: And and it's hard to get everyone on the same page.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because that's why there's three judges, right?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_05: Three different opinions.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a good conversation because it's I mean, I I love talking about art with people because it is subjective.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the hip hop person, you know, could look at one thing and I could look at one thing, and we can see completely different things.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's also why people do have a little like it's hard.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard conversation to listen to when you're somebody presenting work and you're like, well, why didn't they like my work?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's maybe not, you're just not with the right people.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that just is what it is, you know.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why there's chocolate and vanilla.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of being an artist is is understanding that listen, this is not for everyone.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're if you believe in what you do, then it's for you.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody along the way is gonna love it as well.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's just the important thing as we continue through these seasons every year.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, when this episode releases, we're nearing the end of this season.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think it can be a slog if you're a studio that goes every single weekend, or if you're a judge that goes every single weekend and you're like, oh my gosh, this again, or if you happen to be getting the same feedback, or you happen to be going to a competition with the same kinds of people, and you're like, I'm not being well received here.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then maybe it's time to really change tactics, you know, change the place you go.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe take a weekend off, maybe do a performance for a group of people who've never seen competition dance.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there's ways to be appreciated in other ways besides trying to attain that perfect score.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_05: I agree.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_05: And this was a fun chat, y'all.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_05: I loved it.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_05: It was it was so cool to chat and hear both of your opinions on this.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_05: And it's a hot topic for sure in the competitive dance world.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I was I was sitting here looking at one of these final questions that we have on our end, and it says, How do you think dance competitions can balance rewarding excellence with maintaining a learning-focused atmosphere?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't I'm not sure how to answer that.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's it's a hard one.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's a very hard question because I don't think that we should be throwing out perfect scores like candy.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_05: And and as you've kind of seen here, and like I feel like mine feels like the most recent.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I I I kind of before I even logged on to this discussion, I when I first started judging, I was like, absolutely never, you would never get a perfect score out of me.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely not.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_05: But then when I saw things that were very close to, if not perfect for what they were, my mind shifted because I truly didn't think I'd ever see it.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, these are training kids, these are just dancers, you know?
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_05: There's no one's perfect.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_05: But I like the fact that my mind has been a little bit switched.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_05: I like the fact that people are proving me wrong.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_05: I like the fact that there are studios out there, there are choreographers out there who are pushing those boundaries and and showcasing some really excellent stuff that is worthy of near perfect or almost perfect or at minimum first overall.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_05: Because first overall feels like perfect.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's not perfect, but it feels like perfect sometimes.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_05: And that's not really the chat we're talking about today.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_05: We're talking about three uh 300 perfect score or 100 out of one judge perfect score.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, I think there's a lot of layers to this conversation, but I think no matter what, if you ever are perfect, if you ever get that perfect score, I think a good takeaway, like we discussed, is knowing that you were just perfect in that moment in time and that you aren't perfect forever.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_05: Correct.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, some people thought you were perfect in that moment.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_05: Hooray for you, pat on the back, you win the shiny trophy, and we still have to continue to work and we still have to put the work in.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_05: And like you said, try to maintain that, like you said, Kristen, which I loved.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_05: So fantastic chat on the podcast.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you to our wonderful guests and IDA judges, Sally and Kristen, for joining us here today.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_05: And how we would love for you to lead us out on this episode is just with one final thought on the topic.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_05: Anything that we missed, anything that you want to leave our listeners with, you can speak to studios, dancers, choreographers, parents, whoever you'd like to chat with when it comes to perfect scores at competition.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think I will reiterate the don't do it until you get it right.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do it until you can't get it wrong, because it always encourages growth.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: It always encourages a commitment to your craft to always try to be better and to never settle and just oh you you you hit the peak of like, yay, I did my triple for the first time.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you don't have a triple until you can do it three more times in a row, ten more times in a row.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the first time is is luck, you know, the second time is a a coincidence, the third time we've developed a skill and it should be maintained after that.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I would say to students and teachers and coaches that that's that's really you know, re repetition.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing wrong with repetition.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing wrong with it.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you want that perfect score, it has to come.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with that.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um just when I was training my dancers, I always just used to tell them the rule of five.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay, when you finally get like that triple, now do it five more times so it becomes muscle memory.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Everything, you know, has to finally be muscle memory.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to tell the student dancers and the students and and everyone when you go on stage, uh, don't worry about the score.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, think about just the process of being there like it's a performance for you.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've practiced, practiced, and practiced.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Come on and perform because you finally have an audience instead of a mirror in front of you.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the score is going to be three people's opinions and rubrics and, you know, obviously um some black and white and technique and things, and you may get that perfect score.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do, be thankful and love it and work hard every single competition.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Cause like Kristen said, it's it's not always achievable every time.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Don't, you know, don't let it kind of think, oh, I've gotten there.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, keep working.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that if you just come on stage and be the music and have all of those things in your, it's that's from your training.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And just love being on stage and we see your heart.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: When we see that heart come through, that's what sets you above that next level of that dancer.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone, when you go to audition, you're gonna have dancers that have technique, technique, technique, technique.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's what they see in you that's gonna make you stand out.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go to that professional world and you're dancing for Lady Gaga, you're not doing triple turns and turns in second.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Be reforming.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So just um, just enjoy the ride.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you get that score, be appreciative, but be humble.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_05: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode, all about the perfect score at competition.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_05: Be sure to follow our special guests and IDA judges on Instagram.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_05: You can find Sally at Style Dancer and Kristen at Miss KristenDance.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribers receive free Making the Impact stickers, shout-outs live on the air, ad-free listening, and exclusive access to our QA episodes for members only.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com/slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Competition season is right around the corner.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're looking for expert guidance to polish and perfect your routine before hitting the stage, then be sure to check out our popular service, IDA's Online Judges Critiques.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_04: Our experienced judges will provide you with a video critique of your performance.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_04: But with IDA's Online Judges Critiques, we take it one step further than your standard competition critique.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_04: Our additional feedback option allows for your judge to go back through and review your dance for an extra 10 to 15 minutes to give specific corrections and personalized feedback.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_04: And new for all of the choreographers out there, we are thrilled to introduce our new choreography console critiques.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_04: Instead of focusing on the dancer's performance, your IDA judge will dive deep into choreography specific feedback, including concept, appropriateness, costuming, transitions, style, formations, visuals, textures, technique, song choice, difficulty level, and so much more.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_04: IDA's online judges critique start at only$35.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_04: So what are you waiting for?
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Visit our website at ImpactDanceAjudicators.com slash online critiques to submit your dance today.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Season six is almost over, but we've got a few more episodes coming your way, including red flags for Toxic Studios, the perfectionist mindset, and music we'd rather not hear next season.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next week for some more great episodes on making the impact.