Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #172: RFK Jr’s Food Fight: Can He Fix the Corrupt Diet Guidelines?

Transcript

Episode #172: RFK Jr’s Food Fight: Can He Fix the Corrupt Diet Guidelines? · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: So so to make sure everybody's with us here, these guidelines are not what RFK Jr.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: wants.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's not in there yet.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: So so the food fight is are you thinking that RFK Jr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: is going to disagree with these guidelines?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm doing is I'm I'm setting up here what is the food fight, and I'm saying some of this, I'm hoping that he's going to take on this fight.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, everyone.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels Podcast with yours truly, Farmer Joel Salatin, and our favorite scientist researcher, Maven Dr.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And today we have, we're going to do a bit of a deep dive into, as you know, the election is over.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of uh speculation as to what this new Trump RFK Jr.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: alliance is going to bring, not to mention Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: We live in uh uh interesting times, to say the least.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, RFK Jr.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: has kind of uh developed his first significant food fight uh into the system.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna dig into that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: But first, Cena brings us up to date with a good free market uh free market occurrence.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so many times people think, well, the only way to make progress is to get another federal agency, another piece of regulation, another legislation.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And those of you who follow us know that we are into an informed public that then makes correct marketplace decisions.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem is most people are not informed.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so then they don't make good decisions.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: So she's got a great success story here to start, and then we're gonna dig into RFK Jr.'s um dietary guidelines and food fight.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cena, take it away.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Joel.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, today I bring you good news.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: We just learned on December 12th that the genetically modified salmon company called Aqua Bounty, they have shut down their operations.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this is due to consumers didn't want their genetically modified salmon, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: This was um a biotech company that has been troubled for a long time.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: They've been um taking a lot of money from government.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, some are saying that it might have even been over$8 million in government grants and loans and subsidies.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: They've worked for three decades.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they got approval of this genetically modified animal um from the FDA and from Canada.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say this was the first genetically modified animal that was designed for human consumption.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this is a big deal.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when it was approved by the US government, it was a big deal.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, these animals were supposedly going to grow to market size in half the time that it took the wild salmon to grow, and they were gonna eat 25% less food, which I mean, that just sounds wrong.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's something wrong with that from, you know, from just a common sense perspective.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, it has been announced that they are closing its last working facility, and this is at Bay Fortune in Prince Edward Island, um, that has been reported now by the Canadian Biotechnology Action Network.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they've been slowly actually having to close uh the different facilities.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in February of 2023, they closed their large-scale salmon production facility in Rolo Bay in Prince Edward Island.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in July of 2024, they sold its primary U.S.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: production facility in Indiana.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like I said, now it just shut down this Bay Fortune one.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the only thing it has left is this Ohio plant.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so of course in the United States, which was under construction, it has been stalled since 2023.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're saying that they're going to evaluate um alternatives for that Ohio farm project um while they're still selling off the remaining assets.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a great victory for the consumer because the market spoke and they subsequently had to shut their doors, even though they've been prompted uh propped up by governments in the tune of millions of dollars.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So Cena, is there any indication whatsoever?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I remember when this was, I remember when this was first uh, you know, first came to the first came to our attention, you know, the this uh GMO salmon.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the first uh big, you know, big uh GMO animal deal.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I I can't remember now.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: There were there was a three-way cross.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: There was salmon, there was some there was some uh plant, and I think something from a pig or something.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember what all the the but it was, you know, the the the the GMO was uh parts of other things, and I mean that's what GMO is, and uh and so it was it quite created quite a stir.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So is there any indication that it has gone belly up because they just what the the fish got too sick or it didn't work or something is is it strictly is it strictly marketplace backlash against GMOs?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know the precise answer to that.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: What we're seeing in the reports is that it was put on the market, so it entered the marketplace, and um it wasn't viable.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: That so whether it was strictly consumer pushback or the cost of it wasn't viable, I'm not sure.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: But either way, the market spoke and took care of the problem.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know if the cost was higher than than uh than non-GMO salmon?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're saying that the cost should have been less to um raise them because they eat less food, but the company kept losing money.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, it says that Aqua Bounty still owes the government of Prince Edward Island at least$1.5 million from a 2018 loan that they gave them that was$2.7 million.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, and they just gotten um so this announcement of their shutting their doors came just weeks after the federal and the PEI governments announced that they were going to give them over$200,000 more dollars.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really crazy that, you know, and they were losing market shares there for a while, um you know, which they were in jeopardy because their market share had gone so low that they're in jeopardy of getting kicked off the platform.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the thought is that investor hype at the beginning, like you know, really propped this up.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like beyond beyond meat and and uh impossible burger, same same thing, same things happened to them.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they've they've lost you know millions and millions of dollars of uh of venture capital money.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because it does it actually doesn't work, and that's why sometimes I wonder if some of this stuff isn't couched like uh it yeah, there might have been but there might have been consumer consumer backlash, but that's an easy scapegoat for a company to to what to um to back off of its to back off instead of admitting, you know what, they just weren't healthy, they didn't taste good, and it and it just didn't work.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot easier to say, well, people are paranoid about GMOs, and this just shows how you know how fickle and idiotic and ignorant uh consumers are, and blah, blah, blah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um my my hunch is there's there's more to the story than just Americans don't want GMOs because Americans have been buying GMOs across the board, you know, on a lot of things.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, if anything, although not not a lot of animals.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if anything, I think it would have been the Canadian pushback, you know, and not American pushback.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a couple quotes from um the company saying that like they've tried um for a long time to raise capital, including selling the farm and equipment.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it says unfortunately, these efforts have not generated enough cash to maintain our operating facilities.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: They also said that they don't have um sufficient um liquidity to maintain the only remaining operating farm.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um so that's that's the extent of what I can find right now as to what the company is saying.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it comes down to the money that you know there's something there.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's something there, yeah, yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's cool.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool that that that that that that what landed was yeah, I remember the hype around that when it landed.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this was gonna be the cat's meow, and uh here we are uh 20 years later, and they just never could never could uh get it to work.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad because there are potential um downstream consequences of that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: That like you may not, it would have been really, really hard to put the genie back in that bottle had those fish gotten out into the wild.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very, very grateful that there was we know there was pushback and by environmental groups out there and here, and especially, you know, um in in Indiana, and we know consumers there didn't want it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm grateful for the market.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's some zem resemblance still of a capitalistic market somewhere.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, that's right.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Markets, markets do talk and informed informed people talk.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we're here.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we're here.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right, onto the onto the next, onto the next okay, onto one of my most um my my my topics I love the most.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about food politics again.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! So today we're unpacking what may turn out to be the food fight of the century.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they're calling it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we all know that uh Robert Kennedy Jr.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: has this ambitious vision of helping to make America healthy again.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to do things like overhaul the school lunches, ban certain pesticides, tackle ultra-processed food, and the corporate influence in public health.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh put forth proposals that some are saying could actually revolutionize how we live and how we eat.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And others are saying, or it could do nothing, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, so to be successful in making these changes that he wants, he's gonna have to fight the powerful food and ag lobbies, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: We both know how powerful these lobbies are.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's also gonna have to overcome resistance from industries that are benefiting from the status quo.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk about some of those today because they are involved with the dietary guidelines.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So Kennedy's fight has already begun, even though he has not even been confirmed yet.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's beginning with these dietary guidelines.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So these guidelines are issued every five years, and it's time for them to be renewed again.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: They influence everything from school lunch programs to federal food assistance policies like snap foods, um meals for the elderly.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: They influence what's on your food label.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: They influence which studies are going to be funded, which ingredients companies use to make the processed foods that we eat.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Kennedy has expressed a desire to actually overhaul these dietary guidelines.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: In one part, he wants to um he wants to prioritize whole unprocessed foods over the ultra-processed foods.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he also wants to get rid of um the basically this corporate influence, this industry influence that has historically existed in these guidelines.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the question remains of can Kennedy actually make any meaningful change?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer is complex.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get into this today with you, Joel.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: The um, as I said, the dietary guidelines advisory committee, they're they have prepared their initial report.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So just so everyone's up to speed, there's a dietary guidelines advisory committee, they prepare a report, and usually this is 20 or less people on this committee.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they come together, they analyze data, and they provide their guidance.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that guidance serves to advise the health and human services and the USDA secretaries, right?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if Kennedy um gets put into that position, he'll be the health and human services secretary.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he will in part oversee these guidelines along with the USDA secretary.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: They together finalize those guidelines.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this is his chance to go ahead.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let me make sure we don't uh want to I want to bring everybody along with us here because this is an ongoing story and it's a very exciting story.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we haven't seen this level of of food discussion in our lifetimes.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think I think that uh right there when you said whole unprocessed over ultra processed, you have harped and harped and harped on the fact that um that food scientists do not recognize the difference between processed and unprocessed.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: All they recognize is fat, saturated fat, whatever, you know, sugar, salt, or I don't know.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm you're I'm over my pay grade here.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: But all that they they they categorize foods into these very simplistic uh um categories.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's never been a recognition between processed versus unprocessed.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's only within these within these um these nutritional or uh you know calories, fat, um kind of things.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and so um, so this is a this is such an earthquake departure from eat from from thinking, you know, to think in terms of whole foods versus break everything down in little categories.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so to to build on what you're saying, in case someone needs some clarity, is that yeah, when when we're taught in nutrition about foods, we break them down into their individual components, like a calorie.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about this on the podcast before, that we're taught a calorie is a calorie.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So broccoli is a carbohydrate, okay, and a primarily a carbohydrate, and so is soda.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Soda is primarily a carbohydrate, and so we don't we don't look at that a soda a calorie from a soda is gonna is gonna react differently, it's gonna be metabolized differently, it's gonna create different um hormones, for instance, and neurotransmitters in your body than a calorie from broccoli, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your broccoli, your body's gonna see a calorie from broccoli different than it's gonna see a calorie from soda.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what Joel is saying is that historically we have not taken that into context.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: We group them all as calories, like Weight Watchers.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can't calories, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: We all know about calorie counting.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what's on the nutrition facts panel that's on the foods that you eat, that the dietary guidelines are basically advising what's on that nutrition facts panel.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just calories.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It just says calories, it just says fat.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's not differentiating between, okay, um, is this fat coming from animal meat, or is this fat coming from a highly processed industrial seed oil?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna see that on the nutrition facts panel, just like protein.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna see this came from a regenerative farm, or this protein came from industrial feedlot where the cows were standing in manure and fed grains.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't differentiate between that and that I think Joel, that's what you're talking about, I believe.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so um we're we're a lot of us in this food space are now excited because uh Kennedy is bringing forth a lot of these issues and people are listening.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like my girlfriend was telling me her 20-something-year-old son the other day came up to her at the table and was like, Hey, you know, Kennedy said that this soda is bad, like there's stuff in it that's bad.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like, and and she's in this food space and she's told him that for years, but she had to sit there and be like, Okay, I I'm not gonna have my ego, you know, like poked.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be like, Yes, he's right, that is bad.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad that you're paying attention.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so Kennedy is making, um, even though nothing has changed yet in terms of rules and regulations, dietary guidelines, he's making a big splash already because, especially for you and I, what matters most is we move the market.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to do that, first you have to educate, and then you have to empower and encourage.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So he is helping, like leaps and bounds in educating at this point.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I so I love that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I love where you're going with this.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's jump into some of this and see what we think and um what these new proposals really mean.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And are they actually getting any better?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have they made any notable changes since the 2020 uh guidelines?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, why don't we start with you?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, what are your thoughts about these new uh proposed guidelines?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I'm I'm assuming you're gonna be talking about uh meat.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, um well I I have I haven't read them completely.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: So so you you you feed the you feed the information and we'll we'll we'll we'll digest.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: We'll I I've been I've been traveling and gone and I haven't kept up with uh I haven't actually seen any news for a couple of days, so I'm a little bit behind the eight ball, but I mean I'm I'm keeping up with you know with a lot of things, but um yeah, uh jump jump on jump on what what this would be.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so okay, so in other words, yes, I will I will let you cheat off my homework assignment.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that that that's the way I got through school.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's just go through some of the changes here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, these are proposed changes, okay, from the committee.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the notable changes is they want to um modify the order of protein foods in order to emphasize plant sources.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, in I'm comparing the 2020 guideline with the 2025 uh, you know, new recommendations.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So in the 2020 guidelines and before, under proteins, you have meat listed first.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's usually meat and then like seafood, and then it's nut seeds, soy products.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now what they want to do is flip it and put meat last.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they want to put nuts, seeds, and soy products first, followed by seafood, and then that's followed by meat, poultry, and eggs.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So even just the order in which they're um listing sources of protein, they want to de-emphasize meat, poultry, and eggs.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they want to prioritize things like peas, beans, and lentils, and they want to reclassify them entirely as proteins instead of vegetables.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how you felt about that, but that's that's one, that's a pretty big change.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It might seem kind of, you know, like benign, but it is these guidelines do shape our perception of food.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're taught to us at a very young age in school.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so they are actually reframing the way that we think of food.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And now what they want people to think is that the pred the primary source of protein is gonna be from nuts, seeds, and soy.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then also to think of that that sounds like uh that doesn't sound like a positive change to me.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're vegetarian or vegan, then that would be a positive change.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and if and if you think cow burps and farts are gonna put us all into extinction in 30 years, uh, you know, that that that's a good change.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: But from a from a nutritional, and you can speak to this better than I, but from a nutritional standpoint and a a complete um, you know, a complete uh uh balanced nutritional standpoint, the the meat, poultry, and eggs, I mean, if you think for a minute that um soy milk is comparable to grass-fed cow milk, or that uh sunflowers are as fully nutritious as an egg, uh, you got another thing coming.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and see, as nutritionists, we're taught that those categories like nut seeds, soy, um for example, and then the beans and the lentils, these are classified as incomplete proteins.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have the complete complement of the essential amino acids that the body requires.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can combine them, right?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can combine like the beans with a tortilla shell and and create that complement of amino acids that are required for the body.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that you can't re meet all of your protein requirements, it's just harder and it requires a little more thought into your meal planning.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm not against that.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't think either one of us is against anyone making a decision for themselves if they want to be vegan or vegetarian, as you know, I used to be.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying that whatsoever.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I'm saying is that now these are supposed to be the national dietary guidelines and they have a worldwide influence and they do affect all of us.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so now what they're doing is promoting incomplete sources of protein over complete sources of protein.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there is some concern that this could increase the risk for nutrition uh micronutrient deficiencies in our country and and across the world.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're already seeing micronutrient deficiencies on the rise.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, I had uh I was borderline for berry berry and pallegra, which both of those are um deficiencies that were uh diseases that were eradicated at least by the mid-1900s.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing a resurgence of these.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the only one suffering from that suffered from that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: So one concern is that they are creating micronutrient deficiencies, um, specifically because they've because of that swap.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: And also they're recommending six daily servings of grain and three of refined grains.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you so the limit is three of refined grains, but there's been health concerns about refined carbohydrates, yet they're still on the guidelines.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this is getting into Kennedy's point that we have these ultra-processed foods that are still allowed in the guidelines.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so even if you just think of those two changes in those two promotions, so like we still have ultra-processed food that are okay.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're still saying that refined grains are okay.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, limit them, but they're still okay.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're saying um we're putting on a pedestal these incomplete sources of protein, it can potentially lead to more nutrient deficiencies.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So so to make sure everybody's with us here, these guidelines are not what RFK Jr.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: wants.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's not in there yet.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So so the food fight is are you thinking that RFK Jr.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: is going to disagree with these guidelines?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm doing is I'm I'm setting up here what is the food fight, and I'm saying some of this uh I'm hoping that he's gonna take on this fight.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm hoping that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also I want to get your opinion as we're chiming in here.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: So one other thing that they put in here is to limit overall red meat consumption.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It says that they're suggesting further cutting weekly meat, poultry, and egg intake by an additional 3.4, fee for 3.5 to 4 ounces compared to the previous recommendations.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's roughly the size of a deck of cards or the palm of your hand.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they're advising again to limit the overall red meat consumption.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and while they're doing that, they they're also saying is that is that per day 3.4 to 3.5 ounces per day?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, they're saying the to no the for per week to further cut uh weekly by an additional 3.5 to 4 ounces.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So over a week, just in one week, cut more of it out.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Cut about 3.5 to 4 ounces more out.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So cut more out.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying here, let me get to the exact page.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have um, I will link this 185-page PowerPoint in case anybody wants to look at it for themselves.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's not even the written document.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is just the PowerPoint.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I will link this so you can see it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on page 127 right now.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So again, they want to they want to limit saturated fat intake to less than 10% of calories per day.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're saying that this has been consistent over time, that the dietary guidelines has recommended limiting limiting saturated fat intake since the first edition in 1980.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the um the qu the quantitative recommendation has been consistent since it was introduced in 20 uh 2005.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they're saying it was confirmed by several dietary guidelines advisory committees that saturated fat intake could increase cardiovascular disease risk.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, so now so previous advisory committees, which we know a lot of them have uh ties to industry, and I'll get into that in a more in a minute, they confirmed that saturated fat could lead to cardiovascular disease.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna continue with that and tell you to still limit saturated fat intake.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in the meanwhile, um, low fat is being debunked everywhere.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's an article that popped up.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went into Google, and you know what pops up um news for you?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: It actually popped up this article out of the Atlantic talking about that we've been duped by the low-fat craze.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that they're everyone's catching on to it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yet the guidelines are still pushing this.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Stop eating so much red meat uh and limit your intake of saturated fat.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, basically, if you don't want to die of a heart attack is what they're saying.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: They also, in terms of the fat on page 124, they're saying milk consumption should be uh fat-free and low-fat dairy mat dairy milks and unsweetened fortified soy beverages.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So again, fat-free, low-fat, uh, again, this also then will fit into this concern that some of us are having about nutrient deficiencies that could possibly develop from these guidelines.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you already have you're taking out the animal fat, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're taking out the animal meat.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're taking out the animal fat, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're taking out the fat in the milk, uh, you're leaving in the ultra-processed foods.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so it's so as you can tell, uh, so far I do not agree with it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, let me tell you a positive thing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I I I couldn't I couldn't tell that at all.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you were gonna rubber stamp this as the the answer to everything.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, seal of approval.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, yes, surprise that I have a problem, right?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so that's why I want to put some positive things, okay, that they are moving in a good a better direction.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: One of the positive things is that now they are suggesting that it says this the next edition should specifically recommend plain drinking water as the primary beverage for people to consume.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that that's that's fairly benign.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I almost got through that without laughing, Joel.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was pretty good on my part.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is so obvious to me, and I don't know why this wasn't from it wasn't promoted from the very beginning, but at least now they have taken the step to say we should be drinking mostly, you know, water.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good thing.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now um we'll know we'll we'll know we'll know we're making progress when the next time you go into Kroger's, there's not a tractor trailer load of Coca-Cola, Mountain Dew, and Dr.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Pepper uh to greet you at the at the atrium atrium when you go into Kroger's.
• 29:37
  unknown: Okay, yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well that I would not hold my breath on that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I the people want their soda.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so then another one is that um, okay, I don't agree with the first point on this, but the first point is going to re-emphasize what direction they're going in.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they said that they encourage recommendations to shift to nutrient-dense plant-based meals.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so more in line with they're going for a plant-based approach.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: This will make more sense in a minute, too, when we talk about um the financial ties of these committee members.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So here's um one recommendation that at least is starting to go into the right direction.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: They suggest the recommendation that grains are quote, mostly whole grains.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of they used to be at least half whole grains.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is at least a movement in the right direction, where before the guidelines said half of the grains should be from whole foods.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now they're saying mostly whole grains.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I give them, you know, a little pat for that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the right direction.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they also are going to support updating a mandatory folate fortification to include whole grains.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, this is also another indication that we have more micronutrient deficiencies.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're acknowledging this, at least on some level of consciousness.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that, and also that I know this is gonna be more of a controversial statement, so I almost hate to say it, but you can develop some micronutrient deficiencies from consuming whole grains.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be processed properly, and so I think that's also potentially part of the reason why they want to move toward fortification of them.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, Joel, I'm working on a story that I'm hoping to break in uh January.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still doing my investigation on it, but it's gonna talk about fortification in some ways that they're fortify fortifying foods that I was not aware about, aware of.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's gonna be a little bit alarming to people about how they're going about doing this.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So more to come in January.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, something that concerns me about these new guidelines is a statement that they made about um, they're talking about on this page, is page 91 in their slide deck, and they're talking about sodium.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what they're saying is that there are voluntary sodium reduction targets.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and and I want to differentiate here because I'm not in favor of the type of sodium that they're putting in the processed foods.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So do I'm not saying that's a good thing.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying consume real salt, right?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Himalayan salt or actual real salt.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's different than the sodium that they're putting in these processed foods.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So having said that, this is what they said.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Diet simulations reconfirm that the food supply is high in sodium.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It that makes staying below the recommendation uh difficult.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, first of all, a couple things should have triggered right there, red flags, diet simulations.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when they're making these recommendations, what I have found in these slides is that they're using computer modeling.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they're taking some data that they have from different studies, and they're they're also generating these recommendations based on modeling.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that we've talked about at Two Days of Truth, whereby I had a whole talk about this about the fallacies with using computer modeling.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: But just so you know, these guidelines that influence all of us are in part done by modeling on a computer.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they're saying a computer is supposed to be able to uh simulate your um your microbiome, how it interacts with everything, your stomach acids, all these things.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's supposed to simulate all that and all of its wonder and complexity uh and spit out a here's what your poop looks like.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the model is only as good as the data that you give it, as the input data.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so these same people who believe these things, these are their core belief system, and that's fine.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: They have a right to believe it, but they're inputting this belief into this model that's generating these guidelines in part that all of us are affected by.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that I have a problem with that.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the second part that's alarming is okay, they have this, they have this sodium reduction that they want to have happen, and they're saying that it's difficult to meet these targets.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the model told us that it's difficult to meet these targets.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what they say quote, this committee supports making the voluntary targets mandatory to support a food supply lower in sodium.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh right, red flag, already mandatory.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this was one of the concerns with, and again, I don't want people eating that sodium either, but I'm not gonna start mandating things.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this was actually one of the concerns that some people have had with Kennedy getting into this position, is him you, you know, in his background, maybe thinking that that is his perception too.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna go in and start mandating things.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And now the committee to me has already opened this door of possible mandates.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we we basically we trade we trade one set of mandates for another set of mandates.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then which gets you nowhere, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: The next person can get in and change that mandate again.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what if it's something we don't like?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if it's now you can't you can't grow your meat, you can't eat your meat, you know, something like that.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um I do wanna I do want to touch on, um and we can come back to this if you want, but I do want to touch on the conflicts of interests, okay, before I forget and we move on.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the um the group called US Right to Know, uh I love that group, they did a great analysis of trying to identify the conflicts of interests in this new uh dietary guidelines advisory committee.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say one thing that's on the right track, but and I say that loosely because I'll explain why, is that for the first time, the USDA and the Health and Human Services they published the conflicts of interest disclosure.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this happened in 2023.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: They published this conflict of inf in conflict of interest disclosure for the 2025 dietary guidelines committee.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a couple things though.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Their confidential uh I'm sorry, this conflict of influence disclosure only covered one year.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't actually cover like the five years that the committee's working on these guidelines.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: They only looked at one year and they were voluntary disclosures, okay, voluntary disclosures.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: This was not a requirement.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um they didn't actually, they just asked, like, you know, do you basically do you have any connections with any organizations or whatever?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then they grouped them all together and and published that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so all you see are the organizations listed.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know who was attached to what organization, how many people are attached to these organizations, what the um actual relationship is.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: You don't see any of that.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So while this was the first time that they actually did that, for me, this was kind of a let's cover our butts and say that we did it.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's called disclosure spam.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've never heard that before, but that is so appropriate.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Disclosure scam, let's say.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yes.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So because of that, US Right to Know went behind them and said, okay, now we're gonna tease out as much information as we possibly can to figure out what is actually going on here.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so their um analysis reveal there's possibly 13 out of the 20 members that have conflicts of interests.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually somewhat of an improvement.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, as painful as that is to say, this is actually somewhat of a of a of an improvement because the 2020 to 2025 dietary guidelines, they had at least 95 percent of the guideline committee actually had ties to food, a big food, or big pharma.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: And several of them were tied to multiple companies.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: So this is somewhat of an improvement.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: They say nine of these 13 people um definitely have conflicts, and four have possible conflicts.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So for nine and possibly 13 of the members, so that's at least almost half at best case and at worst case, that's well over half that still have conflicts of interest.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: So and and and just you know, having having dealt with these conflicts of interest in the past, for me, disclosure statements and stuff, I think it's important for for our listeners to understand that they they would consider, let's just say, for example, a a uh a nutritionist at Stanford University, just for sake of discussion, they would consider that a non-conflict of interest person because that person does not work for the industry.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: However, however, you and I both know that a lot of times those professors, those PhDs in those college settings are getting funding, they're sitting on ancillary committees, they're being wined and dined, courted, and romanced by the industry.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So just because their paycheck is not coming from the industry doesn't mean they don't have deep ties and alliances with something that if it was actually giving them a paycheck would in fact be a conflict of interest.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's what most of us, that's why I want to say 13 of the 20, because in my mind they all have these conflicts of interest.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's give a couple examples of the current advisory committee conflicts of interest.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is from U.S.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right to Know.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: They did a fabulous job of breaking these down.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So one of these is a PhD from um Purdue University, and she has received uh money, personal money from serving on the advisory panel for Mead, Johnson and Company, also for the National Dairy Council, also for the Indiana Dairy Association.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's received honoraria for working as a grant reviewer for the American Egg Board, for and also for dairy management.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know that was a thing, the American Egg Board.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: One of the, listen, one of the funnest, one of the funnest um after dinner speeches, entertainment things I ever saw was at the um North American Farmers Direct Marketing Association, Naphtema, um uh conference in Phoenix, Arizona.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a long time ago, and and they had the the after-dinner entertainment was the the National Egg Board uh traveling chef.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he set up and he did omelets in front of everybody.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: He holds the Guinness Book of World Record for the 60 second omelet, and he was funny, he was h he was just, and I I was so taken by it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: I came home and and I started making the 60 second omelette here, and I that's the one thing that Teresa lets me in the kitchen to cook is the 60 second omelet.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: So when we have sudden, sudden guests, oh no, you know, what can we then she puts me in the kitchen?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: We we do these uh we do these omelets, and um, and it it m it makes a wonderful, you know, uh the the plates come off, you know, every minute, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: And in a few minutes, you know, you go from nothing to really uh good cooked meal.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, it yeah, eggboard, yeah, it's it's a it's a big deal.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Big deal.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: That in order for Teresa to allow you to cook in the kitchen, you first had to be trained by a professional chef.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, that's right.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: In in cooking omelets.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, okay, so that one's maybe not so bad, but but so here's another one.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: This same professor um for Purdue.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you look under research support, which is like what you're talking about, she has at least four studies in just the past five years that were funded by Eli Lilly.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she has a grant from Eli Lilly that was for$240,000.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she's also received funding for studies on eggs from the U.S.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Egg Nutrition Center, um, and received funding from the American Egg Board.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and hers goes on and on and on, all this money that she's received from all these different organizations.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but let me do what let me do another one.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh PhD from Stanford University again.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: So two top universities, right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he is he had you're gonna love this one.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna be your favorite troll.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: He has received funding from the plant based meat substitute company Beyond Meat.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the funding is for research on the health effects of Beyond Meat, plant based meat alternatives.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder how those studies turned out.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll I'll bet he found.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'll bet he found that beyond meat was the worst thing you could ever eat.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I bet he did.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that's what he found.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's just for grins and giggles.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do another one.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's another one.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this one's from Harvard.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of little accreditations behind her name.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: MD, MPH, MBA, and the list goes on from Harvard.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: So she is an advisor/slash consultant to the weight loss and diabetes drug manufacturer, no Novo Nordis.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Also Eli Lilly and Pfizer and Boeringer and Rhythm Pharmaceuticals and Jealousis.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: She also advises Good RX, which is a prescription service.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: She has received$68,880 in consulting fees from a national from a multinational weight loss drug manufacturer, including the Novo Nordisk.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: She received$7,000 in honoraria from Novo and also from Curax Pharmaceuticals and another allotment from Rhythm Pharmaceuticals.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she also received money for travel, lodging, and food from Eli Lilly and from Novo.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she also received money from Eli Lilly for quote compensation for services other than consulting.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: She also advises Curex pharmaceuticals, which are produced which are products including weight loss, uh, weight management uh drugs.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And her list goes on and on too.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, seriously.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the people creating the dietary guidelines.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure, I'm sure that these ties don't have any bearing on what their recommendations are going to be for what we should eat, what we shouldn't eat, what food, what ingredients should be in there.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is it's it's laughable.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't so serious of all the tentacles that these guidelines affect, I would be, we would be laughing in our seats right now.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a comedy.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the the the very fact that this is this is presented as some sort of a you know a third party uh impartial credentialed um uh uh expertise is is crazy.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, every one of those companies sends a pile of money to politicians.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so if if RFK decides to take them on, he's yeah, it's uh it's an upstream swim to deal with all the th the uh the funding threads that they have out there, uh I mean, just not the least of which is ten billion dollars that goes to Coca-Cola and Mountain Dew for SNAP.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean there's a hundred there's a hundred billion dollar program that gives almost ten billion dollars a year to um to the soda companies.
• 47:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you and if he if he dares to try to eliminate that out of the SNAP uh whatever eligibility, you can bet that those companies are gonna accuse him of not wanting the people to have a good time, you don't want people to have a party, you don't want people to have a choice.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, the point is, I mean, because he's already gone on the record of saying he that that's one that he really wants to do is to take uh sodas out of SNAP.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and the thing is, he's not making soda illegal.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: He's just saying if you want to buy them, they're on your own dime.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: The taxpayers aren't gonna subsidize uh uh soda.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually, you know, we're we're not friends of of mandates.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: What this is, this is this is uh taking off an eligibility that the taxpayers are paying for a detrimental product.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not saying you can't buy it, you can't use it, you can't drink it, whatever.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just saying, hey, if you want to take a detrimental product, you're gonna do it on your dime, not mine, which I'm all I'm all for.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm for that too, particularly because well, number one, he's not banning, like you said.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And number two, we also pay on both ends.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we're paying for the food that they're eating and we're paying for the health care to fix the problems that have been created from the food that they're eating.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a vicious, never-ending cycle, and we have to break that cycle.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't particularly want my tax dollars going towards feeding people junk food that and and from you know, that's that I know is going to make them sick.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: I want those people to be healthy, you know, and who knows if they were healthier in some situations.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: If they're healthier and they felt better, right, and they had more mental clarity, maybe they would um, you know, be able to lift themselves up out of the program if they chose to, you know.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know when I was really sick, I was very debilitated.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, luckily I was married already.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So my husband stepped in and took care of me and the kids and our dogs, but I totally understand what that feels like.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So all we're doing is piling more junk food on top of them, making them sicker and sicker, which doesn't really make sense to me.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd rather, you know, feed them food that can actually nourish their bodies and their minds and their and their spirit.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like you said, the I'm not sure, like I'm very hopeful that like I was I remain hopeful, but also realist with him getting into this position.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's assume he is, you know, he does get into the position.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, these guidelines aren't benign.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from what we've already mentioned about the ways that they affect us, um, they affect subsidies, even.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have companies like you know, you mentioned Coca-Cola, Nestle, you know, Kraft, Kellogg, General Mills, all of these cereal companies, they have financial ties, investments into the dietary guidelines.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: They also have investments into um the subsidies.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have this whole vicious cycle that's all in a system that's all interconnected, where you have all these subsidies and they get money for that, and then we overproduce those crops, and then the the junk byproducts from that goes into these foods, and someone's got to buy these foods and they go into the crops to uh sorry, the the animal feed, right, to feed the animals, making them sick.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, someone's got to buy that feed, you know, like God forbid, in any of these guidelines, we say you should have grass-fed beef, right?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: That that might be a little bit different because then you're gonna affect the subsidies, um, where they won't have all the, they won't, all the waste that comes off from these uh crops that are grown in excess.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: What are they gonna do with it?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not putting it in our processed foods and they're not feeding it to these cows, then that's a problem, right?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna have our over there and they're gonna lose money there.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you got that, you got GMOs that are tied into the subsidized crops.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: You got a lot of GMO crops, which means you have pesticides and herbicides fed into these, um, to this system as well, because a lot of those are used on the GMO crops.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you've got grass chemicals, you've got that just so everybody understands, that could not be used if it were not a GMO crop.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like like glyphosate.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: Glyphosate kills soybeans unless they're GMO, and then it doesn't kill them.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the GMOs have actually increased the um the ubiquitousness.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's a word, but anyway, the the the generic use of um uh uh or the end let's let's say it's made herbicides um the use of them less discriminatory because because the crops are genetically modified to accept the herbicides and the and the weeds aren't.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's that's where that's where it goes.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you break it down to all of these components of of what we eat, including the man-made chemicals, like a lot of the grass chemicals and the food additives, a lot of these are derived from from grains, uh, soy, from rice, like these subsidized crops, right, that are now stuck into the processed food.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope, I hope I'm painting this picture for our listener that you can't just change the dietary guidelines by themselves.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you do that, there's an entire ripple effect in every single thing that we eat, everything that we feed the livestock, and so forth.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when if people are thinking that RFK is gonna come in there and just make this sweeping change and change all this, and there's not gonna be some intended and unintended consequences, I mean, we're being naive about it.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: There, you change one thing as big as this, the entire system is gonna feel the effect.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that the system is um pliable enough, flexible enough to handle that.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we saw that with with COVID.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's the food supply is a very fragile system.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, am I wrong here, Joel?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I think you're exactly right.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: And as I've watched the transition team and some of these early um early promises, if you will, or goals, objectives of uh everything from you know Musk to RFK Jr., uh I'm realizing more and more how the interconnectedness, the interconnectedness of the system is just is just beyond anything.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I'll give you an example.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: So just uh a couple of weeks ago, Wendy called me.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Wendy's our our polyface, you know, she's call screener, uh, handles, she's kind of my personal assistant, handles our publicity, social media, Instagram, all the stuff for Polyface.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um, she called me and says, the phones are blowing up, the phones are blowing up.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: So what's going on, Wendy?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: She said, everybody's calling because they're asking if they need to come out and stock up on food because um when Trump uh deports all the illegals, there won't be anybody to pick tomatoes and butcher chickens.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I I would never think, I'm sorry, I just wouldn't think like that, okay?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but that's so I I told I told her to tell people, well, well, by the time uh Ramaswamy and Musk uh fire a million federal bureaucrats, they can go pick the tomatoes.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: Then do do do something helpful for a change.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, problem solved.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I I told her just assure them somebody will butcher the chickens and somebody will pick the tomatoes.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but but you know, that's the that that that's this this this network, you know, this interconnected network, and how one thing, one, one place, you can't just go and cherry pick a policy in isolation.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: When you change a policy over here, yeah, it has this it has this uh ripple through, you know, various various other things.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, that's exactly right.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I applaud what he wants to do in making these changes.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also hope that there's some humility here.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I hope that they don't go in like a bull in a china shop and just think that they can, you know, wrangle these things down.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I I hope that they're well versed on the intricacies of how these things came about and how they interplay with each other so they can start looking at, okay, what could be the unintended consequences, right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: What could those be?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so how could we troubleshoot ahead of time to make sure we don't, you know, have, I'm not even going to speculate, but some kind of negative consequences that are that are happening here that are just beyond what they could have imagined.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's possible that something like that can happen.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope that they're, you know, thinking it through and have educated themselves enough to understand how these things work together.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: So having said that, what I thought would be kind of fun to wrap up is to say for for both of us to kind of if we had to, like I know we don't really like to give recommendations, but but if we had to give recommendations on how we think people should eat instead of these US dietary guidelines, like what would your recommendation be?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'll tell you, Joel, some of these guidelines, when written out, they're close to 900 pages, right?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're literally reading 900 pages just to see what the government thinks we should be eating and what we shouldn't be eating.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: 900 pages.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm reading this and I'm thinking, is it really that hard?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, think of all the money and the tax dollars and the thought that's gone into this.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: The jet fuel and the and the nice uh hundred dollar meat wine and uh meals at nice restaurants that these committee members get to enjoy on the uh taxpayers' dime.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: So so so Cena, mine is really simple.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: Mine is really simple.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they could just do a one-sentence thing.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody should eat a food that earthworms don't want to eat.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like that.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so all the foods out there, you can go to the supermarket and and you you could have uh, you know, uh a big, great big worm bed, and you put a you put a can of this and a package of this and a can of this and a package of this, and whatever the worms uh don't don't eat in two days, then that becomes uh a food that is um um not acceptable.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying make it illegal.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying that's the food that not so you have you have um uh a worm edible and a worm inedible, and that that becomes and and within that anything, whatever you want to eat within that, great.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just enjoy it.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because you're letting nature decide.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're learning from nature.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, have you tried this?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting that.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting that from two farm women I met out in California.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: They were do they the the school district had a three-acre farm that they incorporated into the curriculum.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: So biology, science, math, everything.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was a middle school, middle school program.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: Every middle schooler in the in the uh whatever in the county went um uh uh uh I'm trying to think if it was a day a week, I think it was a day a week, out to this farm to do things.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things these two the two ladies were running it, and one of the things they had was a great big um uh worm box.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was about the size of a coffin, you know, it was like six feet by two feet by two feet, you know, big old box, lid on top.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the assignments they had the kids bring, they said, bring food uh on Monday when you come.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the kids brought, they brought, you know, twizzlers and and Snickers and and you know uh um Cheerios and stuff.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the two farm ladies, they put in, you know, uh some ground beef, an orange, uh, an apple, and you know, some uh some oats.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so the next week when the kids came, you know, they'd been prepped for this.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: They go charging up the hill, they open the lid and they pull out their Twizzlers and gummy bears and Cheerios and all this stuff, and they look over here where the uh two farm ladies had put in their, you know, their apple, orange, and and uh some ground beef and and some oats, and it wasn't there.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: And the kids, where is it?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the worms ate it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: And here the kids had their stuff over here in their hands, and the and the two farmers made the point, why would you want to eat something worms don't even eat?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it was such a, I've never forgotten that.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was there on the farm, met, you know, and saw the deal, and and it made such a deep impression on me that I've just come to this conclusion.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that would be an easy way to do it.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: Just just um uh make a nice big worm bed and start, you know, going to the supermarket, you know, systematically and and pulling items off the shelf, put them in there, and whatever doesn't get eaten in two days, you know, uh we make a big you know national thing.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Worms won't eat it, you shouldn't either, you know, and it just makes it simple.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do that experiment with my kids, like because that is profound, like especially when you teach them from that young age of a child, like a child will instantly get it, you know.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to convince them, let's look up all the ingredients, and da da da.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just oh my gosh, even a worm won't eat that.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like yeah.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's mine.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's mine.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you know, yours, so ours is pretty much the same, but you said yours much more eloquently, and it was much more interesting.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't even want to say mine, but oh go ahead.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: We got we got well, I got one minute.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so mine is pretty much um eat what God gave us as he gave it to us.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: So meaning you're gonna eat whole food, yeah, clean food, because you know, God didn't give us the pesticides, the herbicides, the GMOs, uh the sewage sludge, right?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna eat it whole the way he gave it to us, you're gonna eat it clean, the way Adam and Eve ate, and you're gonna eat in season, right?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because nature cycles our food for us naturally.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: That would take away so many of the food sensitivities and allergies that we have today.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you just did those things, whole food, clean food, and ate in season, bam, it's done.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then my second part to that is because of the climate that we live in with food available year-round, and it's hard for some people to realize what's in season or not, because it's just in the grocery store all the time.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: You would pair that with using your God-given intuition to choose the foods that are right for you.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that those two pillars, those that's my North Star.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do I always achieve it?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will eat cookies, you know.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: We love things like that.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: So do I still eat the sugar?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but I I choose wisely with the ingredients, the you know, the um organic ingredients, the ingredients that are most closely how God designed it to be.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll put banana in a banana muffin instead of the sugar sometimes.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so I don't always eat like that, but that's I that's my guiding light is to go to that North Star.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if I don't hit it every time, that's okay.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a perfect eater.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna beat myself up about it, but at least I have that general guiding principle of eat what God gave us as He gave it to us.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, my question, Cena, for everybody.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: My question is, is so you've just heard, you know, our dietary guidelines, if you will.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh tell us what percentage you think hits our mark.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Are you hitting it on 50%, 40%, 70%?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a judgmental thing.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's gonna be crucified for you know for being, but um you know, imagine a uh you know, a zero to one hundred scale, and and where are you on that scale?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: That might make a nice little self-audit of where you are and maybe where you'd like to go.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like Cena said, uh you you almost have to be um a caveman hermit to be 100%.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um most of us aren't that.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you you yeah, you gotta go to your niece's third, you know, three-year-old Christmas party, okay?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: Or birthday party.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyway, where are you on that?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Are you 40, 50, 60, 70, 10, 9, you know, 90?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you on that scale?
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'd be a nice little kind of a self-audit to just uh rate yourself where you are and realize that you're probably uh you're probably 10% prejudiced because all of us think we're doing better than we are.
• 1:05:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is my dietary recall and you know, diet journals don't we don't really have much credibility toward those as nutritionists because we know how we view ourselves.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: But and I think that's I love these kinds of exercises.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just chime in real fast.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love this question because I think it also brings humility to ourselves, yeah, and knowing that we're not perfect either.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe give the guy next to you a a break, you know, give them a little bit of grace the next time we want to judge them for what they're eating.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_02: So so I I I would say I would say that I'm a I'm at about 80%.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I would I would say I'm about 80%.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: You're probably about 95%.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say I'm probably more of I was gonna say 90, but um, yeah, because I want to give myself a little bit of leeway, you know.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: I do indulge a little during the holidays with my kids because I like to bake the cookies with them.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're still organic, they're still grain-free, there's not man-made chemicals in them, but it's still sugar, so I still eat that.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm okay with it, you're right.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's right, it's the mentality going into it too.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's gonna really hurt me.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fair enough.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, everybody.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us with another episode of Beyond Labels with Joel and Cena.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh again, if you like this content, please share it with friends, grow our audience, and we'll look forward to visiting it, visiting with you again uh next week on Beyond Labels.