Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (2/6)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (2/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker quicker. Welcome back to the no wait.
• 0:41
  I've done 1000 of these. Say it's not just you, go on.
• 0:46
  Go on for you again. You got this.
• 0:48
  Please. Here we go.
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  Here we go, 321. Welcome back to a hamster with a
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  flump pen knife. The dairy Frog girls always give
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  me a thumbs up because I've already flubbed it once. 1000
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  fucking episodes in. Hello, Paul.
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  Hello, Joe, How are you? I'm ready for some hot Dino
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  action. Yeah.
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  Excuse me? I didn't mean like that.
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  Thank you. Oh, OK.
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  Right, Yeah, we're going to. We're going to enjoy, and we're
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  going to be able to enjoy more hot Dino action in slightly
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  better resolution than we did for the first episode pictures.
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  Going to clear up. Yeah, looks.
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  So much better. Oh, I am pleased.
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  Yeah, it was a bit distracting actually.
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  I felt as if I was watching Paranormal Activity or something
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  in the first some dreadful old old, you know, our house silent
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  movie or something. Very, very art house, yeah.
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  Good effort and all that, nice try.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you still got the the
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  amazing direction shining through.
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  Anyway. Hopefully you can hear me still,
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  because you're frozen, Joe. Yes, I can hear you.
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  Don't you worry. No, no.
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  Come on, keep talking. I can still hear you.
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  Oh no, now I can't hear you. Sorry, Joe.
• 2:09
  Now I can hear you. Yeah.
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  Sorry. Sorry, that's all right.
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  No, no. There'll be a little gap on the
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  thing and I'll be able to cut it out, don't worry.
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  OK, yeah, I don't know what's going on with my incident
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  tonight, but it's. Sometimes it's when lots of
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  things are being used, sometimes when Mark's doing a lot of stuff
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  by Internet for Dino, it's people are kind.
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  Cool. Yeah, right.
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  Where were we? Yeah, yeah.
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  Episode 2 We have landed in deserted London, a state of
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  emergency is being held and dinosaurs are popping their
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  heads out of buildings. How do I do?
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  Oh, you're perfect. And and the Doctor and Sarah
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  are, you know, have been arrested for looting.
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  They they can't speak to anybody in authority.
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  They don't believe that the Brigadier, is that their friend?
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  Yeah. It's a bit of a sense of panic.
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  Just when you think things couldn't get any weirder, a
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  peasant from medieval times appears in a car garage.
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  Indeed he does. Yeah, yeah, taking.
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  Back Wizard. David Back, Wizard.
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  Well, should we go and watch the thing?
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  Yeah, let's dive straight in. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Would you care to count as in please straight down that time
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  tunnel? OK, here we go.
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  It's Invasion of the Dinosaurs episode 2 in 321.
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  Bosh, off we go. Actually, you know, the special
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  effects there around the side. That's different from John Tom
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  Baker's first season isn't. It it's a slightly different,
• 3:38
  yeah, slightly different tunnel, yeah.
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  But it's the same same technique, obviously.
• 3:43
  But yeah, it's slightly different.
• 3:44
  Slightly different tunnel you say?
• 3:47
  Yes, yes, indeed. Yeah.
• 3:51
  People don't get this on other podcasts today.
• 3:53
  Any sort of slightly rude thing that they say, it's dragged out
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  and exposed. I'm sorry.
• 4:00
  Hey, it's OK. That's what people come to
• 4:02
  Hamster for. You'll probably go enough once
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  and go oh there aren't these people born the house boring on
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  this? Good grief.
• 4:09
  Yeah, yeah, well, I'm still waiting for an invite if anybody
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  wants to. Yeah, we're talking about you,
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  Dylan race. All right, Mark McManus.
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  Oh, sorry, I'm naming people now.
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  Here's John Perkway and Elizabeth Slayden going
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  peekaboo. I love that shot, but here's
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  what I was saying last time where like you've got the the
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  two soldiers here against that kind of big tower.
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  It doesn't quite look like they're in the same spot as as
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  the Dino diorama. They see the way he's sort of
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  his body language that died. Looks like he's trying to do a
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  fart or something. Like he's, he's straining a bit,
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  isn't it hero dear? They sort of clearly put the
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  wires in the wrong place, you know, when they're sort of
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  pulling on them. Very odd.
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  Wasn't that, wasn't that the the problem with the the models, you
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  know, they because they lacked the movement because the wires
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  are all up through one leg. So it kind of really prohibited
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  what they could do with them. I think it's.
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  Much better when they're stationary.
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  You know, like the Stegosaurus who ain't moving much.
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  Yeah, 100%. They they do those shots where
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  it's just the just the model diorama and the dinosaur in it.
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  I think those look really, really good.
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  You're right. It's when they try and get a bit
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  of movement, he kind of struggles a little bit.
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  Oh look, they've done a tiny explosion there to.
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  Show them. I don't know about you, but I'm
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  thoroughly convinced by all of this.
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  Oh, oh, this. I mean, this happened.
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  I mean, yeah, this happened for real, I'm sure.
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  Did Sarah Jane just say that thing?
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  What was it? Did you read, not read, the Lady
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  Bird Book of Dinosaurs when you were young, Sarah?
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  Absolutely. It was obvious to my kids and
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  what this was. It's clearly was AT Rex.
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  You know when I first saw Jurassic Park, yeah, in 1990,
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  whatever it came out, I was blown away by.
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  I couldn't believe how good the special effects were in that in
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  the cinema. I'm pretty sure I said that this
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  was better back in the time because being a kind of contrary
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  bastard that I am, I was like, oh, Doctor Who did this better
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  in the 70s. But clearly, no, you're right.
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  I was, you're right, Jurassic Park was a lot better.
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  But I love the way he backs. Out.
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  I mean, he turned around, right? You turned around.
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  There could be soldiers behind you.
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  There. Yeah, right.
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  And clearly they couldn't get the thing to turn around.
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  That's that. You know what?
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  They've got little brains, I think.
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  Size of a walnut. Well, yeah, maybe you just
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  couldn't figure out how to turn. How I like my men, you know,
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  big, broad, muscly and brains of a walnut.
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  And it'll deal shriveled hands. Yeah, well, they got for sure.
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  Why? Right.
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  What's happening here now? So where are we now?
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  Is this this is a like a car garage, isn't it?
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  Yeah, they're in. They're in the garage where they
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  were before or. And yeah, they're about to meet
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  some a peasant from the time of King John.
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  Yeah, look how much sharper this looks now.
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  Oh, 100%. Looks gorgeous now.
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  Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's already there.
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  Look. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  My God, the kids will be going. Sarah Cheney's behind you.
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  I don't know how clever you would have been back in the day,
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  but he's very, very obviously just.
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  Is looking right at her. How is he not seeing?
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  I mean, come on now. Doctor Oh, is this the bit in a
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  minute where the Brigadier comes in and Pertway tries to attack
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  him? Yeah, yes, yes.
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  Hi. Oh, hi, Brigadier.
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  Doctor, what are you doing? He goes, yeah, see, you've got
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  sort of dirty windows there and there's all sorts of sort of
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  mechanic gubbins about, I think it.
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  Feels like a real, Yeah. It feels like a real place,
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  isn't it? Definitely.
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  And again, we just don't go to these sort of places in Perth
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  with. You no, no.
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  And, and with all of that location filming as well, it
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  does kind of really sell though. We're in a in a real place.
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  So when you see the sets as good as this, yeah, it does feel
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  real. I feel whenever Paddy Russell
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  comes in it is always a cut above.
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  She's such a great director. I mean look what the massacre
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  Pyramids of Mars, horror Fang. Rock, yeah.
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  Yeah, am I missing 1? No, I think that's isn't.
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  It but that's 4 bangers, right? Like, yeah.
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  Yeah, absolutely. And all and all quite different
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  as well. I mean because you all the
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  location stuff here, but Fang Rock, you know, it's very studio
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  LED, isn't it? So.
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  She's the one that was set to Barry.
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  Let's Yes, I shall direct for you, but I don't want to direct
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  any tin cans because there was a Dalek story in the works, wasn't
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  there? Right.
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  Look at Pertway. Look.
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  He's sort of using his thumb to stroke his brow.
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  Good grief. What was that?
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  Suppose supposedly he's kind of he's a big kind of lackluster in
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  this people and wasn't really that asked about it.
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  He had a lot of his lines written on cue cards and stuff,
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  and he'll just kind of round the set.
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  Well, in this story. Apparently so, yeah.
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  This is the kind of court way. Yeah, no, I really can't either.
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  And I think actually he gives a really good performance where
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  he's perhaps a little bit less bombastic than he might usually
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  be. I don't know if you noticed
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  there, but the the camera shot up and there was a ceiling with
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  a skylight. Oh, we love a ceiling, don't we?
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  Get right I'll put another one on the chart invasion of the
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  dinosaurs, right good as we go through all these stories, you
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  know every time we see a. Ceiling.
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  Oh, there we go. I, Brigadier.
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  Have you ever tried to sort of attack somebody like that?
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  Hi behind the door I've I'll keep my vacation.
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  You know. That's the one.
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  I keep it under wraps because you know, my hands are deadly
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  weapons, Joe, is what I was trying to say.
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  Is that right? Well, no, not really.
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  Grief, you know, don't start your foreplay like that, though,
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  All right? Oh, look up her.
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  We hear what a scene stealer, right?
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  He's been given the bag of sugar.
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  They're talking about the plot and he's put in 500 sugars in
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  his chair. Yeah, but this is the point.
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  This is what I think was saying last time.
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  This is the point for me where it starts to become that cosy
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  story. It's only now like 5 minutes
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  into the second episode where it starts to settle down into what
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  you'd expect from a normal free Dr. Unit story.
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  The. Difference here for me, though,
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  is that you haven't got Joe Grant, who would be a bit sort
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  of simpering and and the doctor's shadow.
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  You've got Sarah asking loads of questions and then when they say
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  she gonna be a good girl and, you know, go and do your
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  journalism and she's like, oh fine, you know, the men have
• 10:20
  gone off and I've been right. And and then she's like, no,
• 10:23
  fuck this. I'm going to go and investigate
• 10:25
  myself. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:27
  She comes up against a lot of the kind of bureaucracy of the
• 10:30
  the military in the, in this these kind of episodes.
• 10:33
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. Whatever.
• 10:35
  Their motive, and they say their motive was that, you know,
• 10:38
  terror says we couldn't get away with it anymore, treating women
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  like this. And Barry said no, I genuinely
• 10:44
  wanted a strong woman because Terrence always says he wants
• 10:48
  some. Straps of the damsel in
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  distress. Yeah, yeah, on the train.
• 10:52
  That sort of thing. That's the one.
• 10:54
  But for whatever their motive, it really works in these opening
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  couple of stories. Yeah, 100%.
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  She's a genuinely dynamic female character.
• 11:02
  Yeah, yeah. And she's got real reason to be
• 11:06
  here. Like the fact that she's a
• 11:07
  journalist and this is a huge news story, you know?
• 11:11
  Like it gives us so much to do. I can't imagine.
• 11:14
  Do you remember in the Time War? I can't imagine Joe Gronk
• 11:17
  saying, why don't you take off that ridiculous?
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  Gear and. Go home to your butcher shop.
• 11:26
  I don't know what she does to Perry, but she frightens the
• 11:28
  hell out of me. And you know, I mean, I love, I
• 11:33
  do love Tom and Liz and I do think they have wonderful
• 11:37
  chemistry. And when you put in a Mara as
• 11:39
  well, I just think it's gold. But I think this, there's just
• 11:43
  something here that isn't John and Caroline John and isn't John
• 11:49
  and Katie she because she is a bit more independent.
• 11:56
  I don't know. There's a whole different vibe
• 11:58
  to this year, but there is a real warmth between them as
• 12:01
  well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  No, I, I definitely get that. Yeah.
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  And as as I think this is a period that works really, really
• 12:09
  well. They either Joe was so well
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  established. And gorgeous, right?
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  Like it worked like gangbusters. It absolutely.
• 12:17
  And and it must have been so hard to to follow that.
• 12:21
  But and obviously, of course, it wasn't going to be Elizabeth
• 12:25
  Sladen. It was going to be April Walker,
• 12:27
  wasn't it? So the fact that she's come in,
• 12:31
  not the first choice, come in a little bit later, it didn't
• 12:34
  happen. There's so many reasons it
• 12:36
  didn't have to work, but it kind of works really, really well.
• 12:40
  Yeah, I mean, that is the big what if, isn't it?
• 12:42
  What if April Walker had taken the part?
• 12:45
  Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure.
• 12:47
  I am not sure that the male lead in a show should be the one to
• 12:51
  say, do you know what? I don't want to work with that
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  person because she's tall. Like they just would you
• 12:57
  wouldn't fly now, would it? That.
• 12:59
  You'd hope not, but I mean. Maybe not, Maybe.
• 13:02
  Maybe I'm being too kind about the industry now.
• 13:06
  Yeah, yeah. But you just seem you just.
• 13:08
  Have you seen how well endowed April Walker is?
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  He was not worried about the fact that she was tall.
• 13:13
  He knew that no one was going to be looking at him.
• 13:16
  We know he had an ego. He'd definitely take the shine
• 13:19
  off. He was so charming there,
• 13:23
  though. Did you see him?
• 13:24
  He went, you know. Miss Smith is currently working
• 13:26
  as my assistant. Yeah, and she she reacts to that
• 13:29
  as well as the first time he's acknowledged her as a as a
• 13:32
  companion. She kind of really smiles there.
• 13:34
  She definitely beams. Now is that a prick that was
• 13:37
  threatening them in the last episode, Now he's alongside them
• 13:40
  Or is it a different soldier? Now this is Pat Gorman now,
• 13:43
  isn't it a different soldier? So Pat Gorman, Oh, Toby Haddock
• 13:46
  could be so happy you said that. Pat Gorman alert.
• 13:50
  Yeah, yeah, that does not look too bad at all.
• 13:53
  The buildings are all the right size, you've got the houses
• 13:56
  behind, and the dinosaur itself looks good.
• 13:59
  No, I definitely think so. And I think even John being
• 14:02
  placed in there, the fact that you can see the full human, you
• 14:05
  know, the like full length there, you've got sense of
• 14:07
  scale. I I genuinely think that that
• 14:10
  scene where he works as a Stegosaurus.
• 14:12
  You know, this sort of masculine and attire that Sarah's got
• 14:15
  their waistcoat and all of that. I don't know if she's ever
• 14:18
  looked more ravishing, you know? Yeah.
• 14:22
  Very androgynous in this story. Oh, here we go now.
• 14:25
  Mike Yates started to talk about how lovely it is all.
• 14:29
  And you know, I saw a Nightingale in Piccadilly.
• 14:31
  And a day, Paul. You know, and it really occurred
• 14:34
  to me watching at this time around how actually they, the
• 14:37
  Mikey Yates reveal is so early in the story, but they do a good
• 14:41
  job setting it up here where like the he's talking about, you
• 14:44
  know, what happened in the Green Death.
• 14:46
  And then, yeah, he talks about how nice it is that there isn't
• 14:49
  anybody in London. And I love the fact that he does
• 14:52
  what people do when somebody says something they don't agree
• 14:55
  with, but they don't really want to get into an argument where he
• 14:57
  where Sarah says she she loves London being full of full of
• 15:01
  people and full of life. And he's like, yeah, I suppose
• 15:03
  you're right. You know, he's just kind of
• 15:04
  shutting that. That's.
• 15:05
  What you say to your other half, isn't it right?
• 15:08
  Just to kind of avoid that. I want to watch this.
• 15:10
  I want to watch that. I suppose you're right.
• 15:12
  Yeah. I want to eat this.
• 15:15
  I want to eat that. I suppose you're right.
• 15:19
  Yeah. I mean glimpse into pulpas and
• 15:22
  ours domestic affairs here. Well, indeed, indeed.
• 15:26
  Oh, sorry, I sounded like we was a couple then, didn't it?
• 15:28
  Well. Play your cards.
• 15:31
  Right talk, Joe. Come on.
• 15:33
  I think I love an affair with most of the hamster
• 15:35
  contributors. I love, but by the way, it's a
• 15:38
  simple thing, but I love this kind of red overlay with the
• 15:41
  with the lines and it makes me think of like, you know, comic
• 15:44
  book kind of emotion lines and stuff like that.
• 15:47
  And I love comic books. I just kind of sort of.
• 15:50
  Power, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 15:53
  Instantly puts me in that kind of place.
• 15:55
  And that's pretty weird that John has kind of seen what's
• 15:59
  happened, but nobody else. Again, it's that nobody
• 16:01
  believing you because, like, what?
• 16:03
  They just disappear. Like yeah, it did disappear.
• 16:06
  I don't think enough people talk about as well that he was very
• 16:10
  well superimposed into that. Amazing.
• 16:12
  Shot there there was no fringing I mean, go and watch the green
• 16:16
  death and planet the spiders. All right.
• 16:18
  Where? Yeah.
• 16:18
  You know he's got electric Halos around him on every scene.
• 16:22
  Yeah. Really well done.
• 16:23
  I I wonder if Paddy Russell. Because we know she did have a
• 16:27
  hand in the special effects. Remember when she took Liz Laden
• 16:30
  to see the the different Suitex that were going to appear in the
• 16:34
  TAR? I wanted to see which one scared
• 16:37
  her, and that's the one she was going to use.
• 16:40
  So I think maybe she just gave a bit more time to this sort of
• 16:43
  thing. Right.
• 16:44
  Maybe that's it. Maybe is it needs a skilled
• 16:47
  director and a bit more time. Didn't they have like an extra
• 16:50
  day? I think for, for, for the all of
• 16:53
  the the kind of compositing and stuff that they're doing.
• 16:55
  So yeah. And, and that's often what it
• 16:57
  needs. Was it Shorecroft models during
• 17:00
  the dinosaurs? No, no, Shawcroft.
• 17:03
  They, they, I think they'd stop by this point.
• 17:05
  They were like in the in the. 60s they did the mechanoids and
• 17:07
  that didn't they? The zombies.
• 17:08
  And yeah, exactly. Yeah, No, it's a different.
• 17:12
  Yeah, Chris Coley. I think it's all cuddly or
• 17:15
  something like that. I'm pretty getting that wrong,
• 17:16
  so don't ask me if I've kind of got that wrong.
• 17:18
  Even very small details like watch Finch, listening to them
• 17:23
  talking about the situation right now.
• 17:25
  Yeah, No, it's almost like weighing out right.
• 17:27
  Oh, God, I need to talk to Whittaker.
• 17:29
  I need to, yeah, let let them know what they're planning so
• 17:32
  they can. But this is this is always the
• 17:34
  fun. This is always the fun of
• 17:36
  watching something like this again for like the umpteen for
• 17:40
  time. The first time around, you might
• 17:41
  not pick up on that, but second time when you know that who the
• 17:45
  traitors are, yeah, you kind of pick, You can see that subtlety
• 17:48
  in the performance and it is kind of there, you're right.
• 17:50
  I'm doing that with a lot of Doctor Who books, you know,
• 17:52
  where I'm sort of doing them twice and I'm reading them for
• 17:56
  the 1st and then I'm reading them again and seeing all the
• 17:58
  little hints and clues. And yeah, the best Doctor Who's
• 18:02
  you know are do have that rewatch ability factor.
• 18:05
  Yeah, yeah. And stuff seeded from the
• 18:07
  beginning. Yeah.
• 18:08
  Yeah. Now we talked when we talked to
• 18:11
  Destiny. You asked me when you kind of
• 18:12
  brought up the idea of doing this story, you talked about my
• 18:16
  prop blog and looking at the props and I said, oh, I don't
• 18:19
  think I've done much with Invasion of Dinosaurs.
• 18:21
  Turns out I was talking about my arts because this set here,
• 18:25
  we're in Whiskey's Lab. This is full of stuff.
• 18:29
  There's loads of stuff in here and which I've already I have
• 18:32
  kind of posted about in the blog.
• 18:33
  A lot of it is the same stuff that is in Destiny and loads of
• 18:39
  us. It's the stuff that came from
• 18:41
  the Jerry Anderson show UFO. Is it all the sort of flashing
• 18:44
  lights? The Duke?
• 18:45
  Yeah. A lot of the flashlight stuff,
• 18:47
  yeah. Also in the back, if you look
• 18:49
  out from, there's a set of cupboards as well, right?
• 18:51
  We're getting getting. Cupboards.
• 18:53
  They're cupboards on. Yeah, yeah, come on.
• 18:56
  This is that cupboards that are still being used today because
• 19:03
  they're kind of like vacuum formed kind of flats that you
• 19:07
  can just kind of whack up and and kind of make a set out of
• 19:11
  and they pop up most recently in kill the moon.
• 19:14
  So as recently as. You are joking.
• 19:16
  No, they're. Still doing the rounds these
• 19:19
  cupboards. You can buy them and like this
• 19:21
  is a company where he has a big catalog of all this stuff you
• 19:25
  can get and those those covers are amongst.
• 19:27
  Yes, you too can own the cupboards from Kill the Moon.
• 19:31
  You can, right? I never thought I'd say this on
• 19:36
  a podcast, but will you please point out when that cupboard
• 19:38
  appears? Yes, I think it's hard to see on
• 19:40
  the show, but you can see it more in kind of the sort of
• 19:43
  behind the scenes images and stuff.
• 19:44
  But I'll try and will meet when we see them.
• 19:47
  I'll try and point them out. They've got like distinctive
• 19:49
  kind of it's like a cover bit. And then I think only here
• 19:53
  there's like 2 versions of it. There's like a cupboard, but
• 19:55
  there's also like a sort of row of knobs.
• 19:58
  I was going to say like a row of circles.
• 20:01
  Underneath you have to get my interest in.
• 20:03
  I know, yeah. A row of knobs.
• 20:07
  I spend a lot of time looking at the knobs in the background.
• 20:11
  Yeah, me too. Me too.
• 20:13
  Different show, though. Oh, look at this.
• 20:15
  I'll go and shut up. That nice Captain Yates.
• 20:17
  This whole scene is it works on so many levels.
• 20:21
  This, it works as a comedy scene because Perk, he's getting more
• 20:25
  exasperated as more people come in.
• 20:26
  He's trying to make his stuff. But you had Liz Slayton flirting
• 20:31
  outrageously with Richard Franklin at one point and going,
• 20:34
  oh, can you rustle me up a pass? And you've got Mike asking the
• 20:40
  doctor what the device is. And we don't know yet, but he's
• 20:43
  actually, he wants to know so he can go to this pair and tell
• 20:47
  them. It's such a great scene.
• 20:50
  Yeah, and it it's a real surprise where he turns up here.
• 20:54
  Like, you know, you're not supposed to be here.
• 20:56
  The person from unit. So we probably think, well, it's
• 20:58
  going to be Finch, right? We don't know.
• 21:00
  Yeah, we know somebody's on the inside and here we are.
• 21:04
  And it is kind of a. Fuck, it's Mike Yates.
• 21:08
  Yeah, I think you'd think if you were, I don't know, if I was
• 21:11
  Hulk, would I stretch this story that to give that the most
• 21:14
  impact and, like, build up the, you know, the reveal of, oh,
• 21:19
  there's someone on the inside. But actually, I think what this
• 21:21
  does is it gives Richard Franklin a hell of a lot to do
• 21:24
  in this story he wouldn't have otherwise had to do so.
• 21:27
  I don't swings around bats. The only mistake I think they
• 21:29
  made is it wasn't a cliffhanger that deserves to be a
• 21:32
  cliffhanger. It's a yeah, good enough like.
• 21:35
  And I know they want us to do dinosaurs going raw and to drag
• 21:38
  us back next week, but I think my yeah, this is a traitor.
• 21:43
  Like, what the hell? Yeah, He's been in what, 1 to 3
• 21:46
  1/2 seasons at this point? Right, right.
• 21:49
  You, maybe, you maybe that would've been the way to do it
• 21:51
  is save it for the end of this episode.
• 21:52
  Yeah, absolutely. Oh, this fella here, Sir Charles
• 21:55
  Grover. Indeed, yeah.
• 21:57
  He goes, oh, I've got no time for him.
• 21:59
  Oh my dear fellow, are you the one that did all of that
• 22:02
  fantastic working? Oh yes, please come and sit down
• 22:05
  and look at this machine I'm building.
• 22:08
  There's the covers behind Yates and so the grey kind of squares
• 22:13
  there and if you saw those. Oh, look at that row of knobs.
• 22:16
  Oh yeah, those words. That stuff sort of from the UFO
• 22:20
  they. Could have painted it a nicer
• 22:22
  colour grey. Oh, you know, nothing says high
• 22:25
  tech more than grey does it so. Nothing says high tech more than
• 22:29
  a load of flashing light buttons behind them.
• 22:31
  There, look. Right.
• 22:32
  Yeah. That must be very complicated.
• 22:34
  Where's the spinning wheels though?
• 22:37
  That's right, this is one of the few stories.
• 22:38
  It doesn't have a good view of Penguins, but.
• 22:41
  Russell didn't get the note. You know the in the future
• 22:43
  everything was going to be on Electro tape.
• 22:45
  There's a little tape there behind, behind Whitaker, which
• 22:48
  again, that's a UFO thing, but that's a little tape.
• 22:51
  It was. Saying about cartoons earlier,
• 22:55
  comic strips, Yeah, look at that gun.
• 22:58
  It belongs. That's great that props from
• 23:01
  that's from a film called Madam Sin, which starred Betty Davis.
• 23:05
  Madam Sin. Yeah, I tried to.
• 23:08
  Alluring well it. Sounds good, I tried to watch
• 23:11
  it, I didn't get through it. To be honest, I wouldn't
• 23:12
  recommend Joe. But not as promising as it
• 23:15
  sounds. No, really, not as promising as
• 23:17
  it sounds. What sins did the Madam get up
• 23:19
  to? Or was it just a name?
• 23:22
  I think it was just a name. I don't know.
• 23:23
  I didn't really get too far into it.
• 23:25
  It's just seemed to be hold like an old woman holed up in a
• 23:27
  castle somewhere. I'm sure it's a good film, but
• 23:30
  it didn't appeal so. Should I require a nom de plume,
• 23:34
  I shall say I am Mushah sind. Indeed.
• 23:37
  You know, they might think I'm a puppet with a pig for a brain.
• 23:41
  Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, this indeed. Yeah, yeah, boy.
• 23:46
  OK, Yeah, I do like this set. You've got like the the cross
• 23:51
  section of the ear and you've got the eye on the chalkboard.
• 23:55
  You know, putting it in a in a real place like that rather than
• 23:59
  just like a unit base, you know, the unit headquarters, you know,
• 24:03
  kids would recognize that as a, you know, a school room of of
• 24:06
  the time. So yeah, it makes a big
• 24:09
  difference. I think it's shocking as well
• 24:11
  that not just that Mike is a traitor, but then it goes one
• 24:15
  better and it's like, you need to sabotage this gun and it puts
• 24:19
  the doctor in a situation of like extreme barrel.
• 24:22
  You have to get trampled by a fucking Tyrannosaurus Rex foot.
• 24:26
  Well, that's the other thing that revealing him here does, is
• 24:29
  that you get like that idea of the kind of moral nature of what
• 24:34
  might be happening. We don't know what the plan is
• 24:36
  at this stage, but we know that Mike doesn't want to hurt
• 24:38
  anybody, doesn't want to hurt the doctor.
• 24:40
  So whatever they're doing, he he must feel it's important, but it
• 24:44
  doesn't want to hurt. Anybody.
• 24:45
  I don't think it's implausible as well that somebody would be
• 24:50
  seduced by this sort of ideal of, you know, like I think we
• 24:56
  are living in a a loud, noisy, angry, polluted, frankly
• 25:03
  terrifying world right now where I don't know whether I'm going
• 25:07
  to see a sunset out the window tomorrow or an atom bomb cloud,
• 25:10
  you know. And so the idea of someone's
• 25:13
  sort of whispering in your ear again, do you know what?
• 25:14
  We could actually make this a better place, better.
• 25:17
  You just got to do a few things for us.
• 25:19
  If if someone was seductive enough, you know, yeah, I think
• 25:23
  I think I could probably be swayed as well.
• 25:26
  So I don't, I don't think it's unbelievable characterization.
• 25:30
  No, I don't think so either. No, I think it, you know, as you
• 25:32
  say is people would want, would want to believe that story.
• 25:36
  And we all had the little a glimpse of it during the
• 25:39
  pandemic. We all saw what life was like
• 25:42
  without cars on the road or, or you know, just people being
• 25:44
  about. Didn't the rivers clear up?
• 25:46
  You could see the fish over in China.
• 25:48
  Right, yeah, and stuff. Like that.
• 25:49
  And it's like, Oh my God. And that's, you know what?
• 25:51
  A few months. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:54
  So I can imagine that being really seductive if like, you
• 25:57
  know, you kind of depressed at the state of the world.
• 26:00
  You weren't wanting to to go to keep that kind of simplicity.
• 26:04
  Just as interesting and I think it's so relevant now, is that
• 26:08
  the extreme left wing response is to murder everybody and, and
• 26:15
  you know, clear the decks that way.
• 26:17
  You know what I mean? I don't I.
• 26:20
  Don't know, you mentioned about left winger.
• 26:22
  Do you think that that's you think Grover is is a left wing
• 26:24
  politician? So I don't know if they
• 26:26
  necessarily make that statement, Do they Well.
• 26:29
  There there's their ideals are left wing I think.
• 26:33
  Yeah, methods are right wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:37
  But basically, I mean, terrorists has it brilliantly in
• 26:39
  the commentary. He goes, you know the difference
• 26:41
  between the right wing. The right wing will say to you,
• 26:44
  you know, we're going to subject subjugate you and torture you
• 26:49
  and do all these things to you because we're bad.
• 26:53
  And the left wing will say we're going to subjugate you and we're
• 26:57
  going to torture you and do all these things.
• 26:59
  But it's for your own goods. It's for your moral worth.
• 27:04
  Yeah. And you know, I have seen enough
• 27:07
  left wing hate. I mean, that's not too strong a
• 27:11
  word. I've seen enough left wing anger
• 27:14
  and and and reactions to know that I think both sides can get
• 27:19
  it wrong. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:21
  But I think as well though the idea of like that it being we're
• 27:25
  going to a better or a harkening back to a better time feels
• 27:29
  quite right wing as well. I don't know.
• 27:31
  I think this may be, I think it's a little bit less clear
• 27:35
  than than that. I don't know if it's necessarily
• 27:37
  black and white. That is, these are.
• 27:40
  The moral that it lands on, take what you've got and make it
• 27:43
  work. It's so great.
• 27:45
  I mean, that could have been fudged so badly, and it's such a
• 27:48
  simple moral. Yeah, yeah, there never was a
• 27:51
  golden age, Mike. It's ended.
• 27:56
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know, that's a bit of
• 27:58
  plotting as well? I just want to say at the end of
• 28:00
  that episode where it's like Mike's like, OK, fine, if it's
• 28:03
  just going to be a brontosaurus, I will sabotage his weapon
• 28:06
  because that isn't going to do him any harm.
• 28:07
  And then you've got bloody Peter Miles there going, Haha, you
• 28:10
  thought it was going to be a brontosaurus.
• 28:13
  We're gonna murder him. Such a great rug forward.
• 28:16
  It like yeah. And Mike's like, oh fuck, what
• 28:20
  have I done? And it gives you the dinosaur
• 28:24
  cliffhanger again. I do think you're right.
• 28:26
  Now you've said it that the Yates revealed could have been
• 28:29
  the the cliffhanger here. I kind of think yeah, but.
• 28:32
  You think there's a few scenes? It probably should have been.
• 28:35
  Yeah, yeah. But you're right, that is a
• 28:37
  strong ending in it and it shows which start the thing.
• 28:40
  Yeah, yeah, I. Think they're full of incident
• 28:43
  great humour. The dinosaurs look pretty good
• 28:46
  as me in that one. Yes, Sarah Jane gets to be funny
• 28:49
  and flirty. John Perry is doing his comedy.
• 28:53
  Yeah, great stuff. So much to enjoy.
• 28:55
  And we and we and we got that colossal reveal that Mike is on
• 28:59
  the side of the baddies, you know, and it's, that's just the
• 29:03
  first in a, in a chain reaction of of kind of like, oh, this
• 29:07
  guy's on on the bad side of this guy's on the bad side as well.
• 29:11
  And and the reveal in the next episode when we get to the days.
• 29:15
  Oh fuck my. Favorite clip?
• 29:17
  Honestly, that's that cliffhanger that completely
• 29:19
  flawed me, completely surprised me, and and he's probably still
• 29:23
  one of my favorite cliffhangers of all time.
• 29:26
  Looking at enemy of the world going, oh, a load of people
• 29:28
  under the ground pretending that they're somewhere.
• 29:30
  Yeah, that work. Let's do it.
• 29:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it opens out the story
• 29:35
  in a really interesting way there as well, isn't it?
• 29:38
  Do you think, wasn't it Hokey? Sorry, wasn't it Hokey?
• 29:40
  Said the the the famous line about not needing an original
• 29:43
  idea. Well, yes, very few in doctor
• 29:47
  these days, if I'm honest. Yeah, or there are they're bad
• 29:50
  ones. Oh, sorry, one last point, Mike
• 29:56
  Yates talking about London being deserted and him liking that
• 30:02
  sort of back to nature approach. I think that's their that scene
• 30:06
  because he was hypnotized in the green death and and sort of made
• 30:11
  to be to point a gun at the Brigadier in that.
• 30:15
  And I think they put that scene in this.
• 30:18
  So we know immediately. No, he is sympathetic to their
• 30:22
  cause and it isn't just that they've waved a light in his
• 30:25
  face and although there is a bit of light waving later on anyway
• 30:28
  with Sarah. Yeah, I mean, he goes for a real
• 30:31
  journey, doesn't he, through through Green Death and this and
• 30:33
  then and then planet spiders and and it is believable.
• 30:38
  It's believable that he would have been had some of the
• 30:41
  effects of what happened to him in the in the green Death.
• 30:45
  But also, as you say, you have that opinion that actually isn't
• 30:49
  it great that there's nobody in London right now?
• 30:51
  And, you know, you could just kind of, you know, you can hear
• 30:55
  the birds and yeah, you can. I can believe, as you said, like
• 30:59
  you can believe why somebody would be seduced by that kind of
• 31:03
  message. And we get to see more people
• 31:04
  like that coming up in the in sort of later episodes, people
• 31:08
  who you'd think would be sort of bright and intelligent and be
• 31:12
  able to see through stuff, but actually they're kind of seduced
• 31:15
  by that need, that want for things to be better.
• 31:19
  It's a great character beat for Sarah as well because she gets
• 31:21
  to be really earthy and go no I like it noisy and.
• 31:25
  Right, right. She's a she's a proper townie,
• 31:27
  isn't she? Oh, yeah, yeah, no, that's, I
• 31:30
  think everything in this episode, every scene kind of
• 31:34
  helps build on it. Like the that peasant guy could
• 31:37
  be just a throw. Sorry, that peasant guy could be
• 31:39
  a throwaway scene where he turns up and like, OK, what's going on
• 31:42
  here? But that that kind of that kind
• 31:45
  of leans into the doctor then kind of putting 22 together and
• 31:50
  go hang on. Things are being dropped in here
• 31:52
  from from the past. So there isn't a wasted second
• 31:57
  in this. And we talked before in the
• 31:59
  first episode about how that kind of race slowly opens up.
• 32:02
  But actually here in Episode 2, we, we kind of, we get, we get
• 32:07
  to the important points really, really, really with the maximum
• 32:11
  efficiency, I think. I know.
• 32:12
  And like you said, we haven't even got to the big twist yet.
• 32:15
  It's unbelievable. And you know, right?
• 32:18
  Are you ready to watch Episode 3, which is the only time you're
• 32:21
  ever going to see a dinosaur on the way back from the pub on the
• 32:25
  lash face, palm straight down on the floor?
• 32:30
  Yeah, yeah. I love that.
• 32:32
  That's brilliant. Yes, yes, I really am.
• 32:34
  I'm ready to watch that. Let's do it.