Latest / The Word On Demand / Chris Fabry Live - How to Love Your Wayward Child

Transcript

Chris Fabry Live - How to Love Your Wayward Child · The Word On Demand

• 0:05
  S1: You have a wayward child you're trying to love well,
• 0:09
  S1: is your heart breaking about the choices that child is making?
• 0:13
  S1: Maybe you feel isolated because of the situation. You feel shame, guilt.
• 0:19
  S1: Do you think the choices your child is making are
• 0:22
  S1: because you made a mistake as a parent? And in
• 0:25
  S1: the middle of this, where's God when you've done everything
• 0:28
  S1: you were supposed to do? But things didn't turn out
• 0:31
  S1: the way you believed they would? Where is he? If
• 0:36
  S1: that is where you are or if you're in the neighborhood,
• 0:39
  S1: the vicinity of that. Join us today at the Radio
• 0:41
  S1: Backyard Fence. There is power in our stories, and Erica
• 0:45
  S1: Wagenhausen is going to share her journey today. Let's get started.
• 0:49
  S1: You'll find us online@kris.org. We thank our team. Ryan McConaughey
• 0:55
  S1: doing all things technical. Trish is our producer. Lisa is
• 0:58
  S1: helping out. Josh will be answering your calls, and I'm
• 1:01
  S1: grateful for those of you who've given here in November
• 1:04
  S1: to keep these conversations going. And our thank you this
• 1:07
  S1: month has been part of just about every conversation we've had.
• 1:11
  S1: What might happen in your life if you began journaling
• 1:15
  S1: as a spiritual practice? Alison Bixby wrote a book with
• 1:19
  S1: that title. That is our thank you. And I wondered
• 1:21
  S1: if our guest today would say anything about that topic
• 1:24
  S1: in her book. And I did a word search, and
• 1:27
  S1: the answer is yes. We're going to talk about that
• 1:29
  S1: in a minute. But if you want to begin journaling
• 1:33
  S1: and trace the lines of grace to God's presence in
• 1:36
  S1: your life, don't miss this resource. Call or click through.
• 1:40
  S1: Give a gift of any size. We will send you
• 1:43
  S1: a copy. The number is 86695 Fabri or go to
• 1:47
  S1: Chris fabri.org. I feel the shame and the guilt of
• 1:54
  S1: the past in this. Don't let your past failure at
• 1:57
  S1: journaling stop you from starting today or in the next
• 2:03
  S1: few weeks. This might be what you need as we
• 2:06
  S1: move toward the end of the year for a new
• 2:09
  S1: thing in your life where you will trace the lines
• 2:12
  S1: of God's grace through what you put on the page.
• 2:15
  S1: I think it's really helpful. We'd love to hear from you.
• 2:18
  S1: Give a gift of any size (866) 953-2279, or just go
• 2:24
  S1: to Chris Fabry live.org. Thanks for your support of the
• 2:28
  S1: Radio Backyard Fence. Erica Horne has served in various roles
• 2:33
  S1: in women's ministry for more than 25 years. She's a
• 2:36
  S1: multi-published author, Bible teacher, national speaker. She loves to connect
• 2:41
  S1: with people at retreats, at conferences, and around her own
• 2:45
  S1: kitchen table. She has degrees from Azusa Pacific University. She
• 2:49
  S1: and her husband, Jonathan, live in Phoenix. They have two children.
• 2:52
  S1: Her latest is. I'm really looking forward to this. Loving
• 2:57
  S1: Your Wayward Child. A Christian Guide to stand in faith
• 3:01
  S1: and build connection when their choices break your heart. And
• 3:05
  S1: I'm not looking forward to this because it's a hard topic.
• 3:08
  S1: I'm looking forward to it because, Erica, you have been
• 3:12
  S1: where a lot of our listener and still are, where
• 3:15
  S1: a lot of our listeners are living. So welcome back
• 3:17
  S1: to the program. How you doing today?
• 3:20
  S2: Thanks, Chris. It's, it's always fun to be with you.
• 3:25
  S1: This is a book you didn't want to write or
• 3:27
  S1: didn't want to have to write. Talk about that.
• 3:31
  S2: Yeah. Well, historically, I think I've been on your program
• 3:35
  S2: probably four times now. And every time we're we're talking
• 3:39
  S2: about Bible studies, right? We're opening up the word of
• 3:41
  S2: God and we're resting in his promises and we're rejoicing in,
• 3:45
  S2: in all of the good things that God has done
• 3:46
  S2: for us. And this is starting on the other side
• 3:50
  S2: of the fence, uh, and talking about something that nobody,
• 3:55
  S2: No mom ever wants it to be her story. When
• 3:58
  S2: it comes to having a child that has made choices
• 4:02
  S2: that have broken her heart. And it could be really,
• 4:05
  S2: it could be anything, right? It can be walking away
• 4:09
  S2: from what you've raised them to believe about Christ and
• 4:14
  S2: the Bible and following Jesus. And it can be a
• 4:18
  S2: failure to launch. You know, they're 28 and they're still
• 4:21
  S2: in your basement, and they're addicted to video games and
• 4:24
  S2: they can't hold a job. It could be an addiction.
• 4:27
  S2: It could be a relationship that you feel like has
• 4:31
  S2: uncharacteristically changed them. Uh, the scenarios are so broad. Uh,
• 4:38
  S2: there's a huge issue right now, especially with Gen Z,
• 4:42
  S2: a lot of millennials just cutting their parents completely out
• 4:45
  S2: of their lives and going non-contact. Um, it could be
• 4:50
  S2: so many different things, but the reality is, is that, uh,
• 4:53
  S2: this is a massive problem that is happening for a
• 4:57
  S2: lot of moms, and it's heartbreaking. Uh, I didn't realize
• 5:01
  S2: when it was happening in our own family, honestly, Chris,
• 5:04
  S2: how prevalent it was and how the Lord really led
• 5:08
  S2: me to pick up the pen and start addressing this
• 5:12
  S2: was as I would travel and speak, teaching God's Word
• 5:16
  S2: all over the nation. It would often invite women to
• 5:19
  S2: come at the end of of the session and meet
• 5:23
  S2: me in the back of the room if I could
• 5:24
  S2: pray for them, or if they had any questions about
• 5:27
  S2: what I had taught from God's Word. And overwhelmingly, this
• 5:32
  S2: was the issue that moms were coming to the back
• 5:34
  S2: of the room with and saying to me again and again,
• 5:37
  S2: it's my child, it's my child, it's my child. And
• 5:41
  S2: their eyes were just screaming for help. Like, how am
• 5:44
  S2: I going to get through this? Um, what do I do? Uh,
• 5:48
  S2: what hope can you give me? Erica and I realized
• 5:53
  S2: this is this is not just my problem. This is
• 5:55
  S2: a big problem. And I began to pray to the
• 5:58
  S2: Lord and say, Lord, what am I supposed to do
• 6:00
  S2: with this? I understand their pain in the depths of
• 6:04
  S2: my own soul. How do I help these women? And
• 6:07
  S2: I sensed the Lord just lay in my spirit as
• 6:11
  S2: I was crying out to him, saying, you've taught my
• 6:14
  S2: word for so many years. Erica, I need you to
• 6:17
  S2: teach my word. I need you to teach my daughters
• 6:21
  S2: the concept of me being their father, and that as
• 6:24
  S2: a father, I too have lots and lots and lots
• 6:29
  S2: of wayward kids out there. And I understand their hurt
• 6:32
  S2: and I understand their pain. And I am chasing after
• 6:35
  S2: their kids as hard and as fast as they are,
• 6:40
  S2: and to give them hope that I am their father
• 6:43
  S2: and I care about them, and I care about their kids,
• 6:45
  S2: and I love them, and I want to see their
• 6:47
  S2: families restored. And that's really the basis of how this
• 6:51
  S2: whole thing got started.
• 6:55
  S1: That made me want to ask. Uh, since you're writing
• 6:58
  S1: mainly to moms and the broken hearts about your husband,
• 7:03
  S1: about men in general, but about your husband, how did
• 7:05
  S1: he react? How did he respond? Was it different than
• 7:08
  S1: the way you did? Did it break his heart as
• 7:12
  S1: well as you were going through whatever you went through?
• 7:15
  S2: Yeah. Great question. Uh, we actually talk about that in
• 7:19
  S2: a footnote in, uh, loving your wayward child. But, uh,
• 7:22
  S2: one of the things that we try to really help
• 7:25
  S2: moms understand through the words of loving your wayward child is, um,
• 7:30
  S2: the process that they're going through is grief. It's a
• 7:33
  S2: form of grief. And grief is not linear and there's
• 7:37
  S2: different stages of grief. And so what my husband and
• 7:41
  S2: I found, and what we had to work through together
• 7:43
  S2: was that we were often in different stages of grief process.
• 7:48
  S2: So maybe he was in the anger stage and I
• 7:52
  S2: was in more of the despair stage. And so our
• 7:57
  S2: responses toward our son were different because we were in
• 8:02
  S2: different stages of grief. And so we had to constantly
• 8:05
  S2: be having these sort of check in moments of, you know,
• 8:09
  S2: where are you at? And, and the hard thing in
• 8:13
  S2: the grief of having a wayward child, Chris, is that,
• 8:17
  S2: I mean, all grief is hard. And I'm not trying
• 8:19
  S2: to minimize anyone's grief. I would never do that. Um, the,
• 8:25
  S2: but the tricky part, the tricky part, I guess I
• 8:28
  S2: should say, in Loving Your Wayward Child is that the
• 8:31
  S2: person that you're grieving is still living. And so there's
• 8:35
  S2: this element. There's always an element of hope, of restoration,
• 8:40
  S2: which we should always have hope as long as as
• 8:42
  S2: Jesus is on the throne, there's always hope. Uh, but
• 8:45
  S2: their behaviors change. And as your child's behaviors change, it
• 8:49
  S2: can sort of catapult you from one area of grief
• 8:53
  S2: to another very unexpectedly. And so it becomes a source
• 8:58
  S2: of communication that you and your spouse need to consistently
• 9:02
  S2: have to truly understand where the other person is at
• 9:07
  S2: in the grief stage and how that's going to affect
• 9:11
  S2: their response towards your child when there is in fact,
• 9:15
  S2: any form of communication with them.
• 9:18
  S1: And when you are open together as a, as a team,
• 9:22
  S1: that means that that grace can be poured out for
• 9:26
  S1: the other if they're in a different season or a
• 9:29
  S1: different stage than you are, that you're not going to
• 9:32
  S1: judge them. And it will actually, those differences can actually
• 9:37
  S1: draw you closer together in a in a strange sense.
• 9:42
  S1: And this is a strange topic because it's we want
• 9:46
  S1: what we want and we want what we thought we
• 9:49
  S1: were going to get, and we didn't get what we
• 9:51
  S1: thought we thought we were going to get. If we
• 9:53
  S1: do this, that. And the other thing I want you
• 9:55
  S1: to talk about that. But I think the question I
• 9:58
  S1: asked on Facebook is, what is one way to love
• 10:00
  S1: a wayward child? Well. And I'm going to read some
• 10:03
  S1: of these responses, but I'd love to hear from you
• 10:06
  S1: if you're listening today. And I'd like to give you
• 10:09
  S1: let you give the other moms parents listening today a
• 10:15
  S1: little bit of your hope. You've had a wayward child.
• 10:18
  S1: What was one way you were able to love that child? Well,
• 10:24
  S1: when they were very far away from you, when you
• 10:26
  S1: felt like they were very far from God? What would
• 10:30
  S1: you say to that answer to that question? Eight. 775483675.
• 10:36
  S1: XR number (877) 548-3675. Erica Hawn's featured resource today@chris.org is loving
• 10:46
  S1: your wayward child. Just go to Chris Fabry live.org. You'll
• 10:52
  S1: see a link right there. More straight ahead on Moody Radio.
• 11:05
  S1: If you're looking at the radio or your device, however
• 11:08
  S1: you hear us and you're saying, how do you know
• 11:10
  S1: we were going through this? Well, we didn't, but there's
• 11:15
  S1: enough people in this category with wayward children, quote unquote,
• 11:21
  S1: that this is this is kind of a universal if
• 11:24
  S1: you have kids. Well, it was universal for God. His
• 11:27
  S1: first kids. Look at what happened to them. It was
• 11:29
  S1: a perfect there. And look at look at how the
• 11:32
  S1: wheels came off in the garden. So Erica Whitehorn is
• 11:36
  S1: really honest and open, though she doesn't go into a
• 11:39
  S1: lot of specifics about her family's situation, what they've been through.
• 11:43
  S1: But there are principles that she's learned, and we want
• 11:46
  S1: to hear from you today about loving your wayward child.
• 11:50
  S1: A Christian Guide to stand in faith and build connection
• 11:53
  S1: when their choices break your heart. And that brokenheartedness is
• 11:57
  S1: really going to seep deeply into your soul today. If
• 12:01
  S1: you listen to what Erica has discovered in her life
• 12:04
  S1: and discovered about God through this process. (877) 548-3675. I want
• 12:11
  S1: you to talk to the person who who has believed.
• 12:14
  S1: This is what all the books I read, all the
• 12:16
  S1: parenting books and I followed it to a T as
• 12:19
  S1: well as I could. And I did this and that,
• 12:22
  S1: and we did. We homeschooled or we Christian schooled or
• 12:25
  S1: whatever it is, you know, toed the line on all this.
• 12:27
  S1: And then this happened. It's like I kept my part
• 12:30
  S1: of the bargain in Proverbs. You know, the Proverbs about
• 12:35
  S1: train a child in the way he she should go.
• 12:38
  S1: I did that and look, look at where I am.
• 12:41
  S1: What happened here? Talk to that parent.
• 12:45
  S2: Yeah, I would say I hear you, sis. Me too.
• 12:48
  S2: Me too. Uh, you know, I followed all the rules,
• 12:51
  S2: and I checked all the boxes and, um, you know,
• 12:54
  S2: did everything that I possibly thought to do as a
• 12:58
  S2: mom to try to train our children, to choose Jesus,
• 13:02
  S2: to want to choose Jesus. And, um, and one of
• 13:07
  S2: them did, and one of them didn't. Uh, that doesn't
• 13:11
  S2: mean that he never will. I'm still praying and believing
• 13:14
  S2: that that he will, in fact, come back to the Lord. Um,
• 13:18
  S2: but there's no guarantees because they get to choose. They
• 13:23
  S2: get to choose. Uh, one of the things. And you
• 13:26
  S2: brought it up, Chris, and I'm so glad you did.
• 13:28
  S2: You talked about the very first family, uh, you know,
• 13:31
  S2: Adam and Eve, right? The, the, the OG mom who
• 13:34
  S2: enters onto the scene and she, she has two sons.
• 13:37
  S2: And Abel honors the Lord And Kane kind of tosses
• 13:43
  S2: a few tokens God's way. And when God says, you know, Kane,
• 13:49
  S2: this isn't going to cut it. Like, you know, Kane
• 13:53
  S2: becomes angry and he ends up murdering his brother Abel
• 13:58
  S2: out of jealousy and rage. And God then confronts Kane. And,
• 14:05
  S2: you know, even before he commits the murder. And he says, Kane, like,
• 14:09
  S2: you know, you know what the right thing to do is,
• 14:13
  S2: is essentially what God says to him. You know, Kane,
• 14:16
  S2: what is right? And if you don't choose what is right,
• 14:19
  S2: if you choose, evil is waiting and it belongs to
• 14:23
  S2: master you. And God led me to that story and
• 14:28
  S2: the thing in there that that gave me so much hope.
• 14:31
  S2: There's honestly two things, Chris. The first thing is this, uh,
• 14:35
  S2: God makes it clear that Kane understood what was right,
• 14:40
  S2: and he was choosing to not follow what was right.
• 14:44
  S2: And that brought me hope in the sense that my
• 14:48
  S2: son knows what is right. And mom, you out there listening,
• 14:51
  S2: you have put all of these good deposits of truth,
• 14:57
  S2: biblical truth, and biblical hope and life into your child,
• 15:01
  S2: and they are still in there. They are not gone.
• 15:04
  S2: They may not be living according to them, but they're
• 15:06
  S2: still in there. Uh, Cain knew what was right. He
• 15:10
  S2: just chose not to do it. Your child knows the
• 15:13
  S2: truth about Christ and Christ's love for them. They're just
• 15:16
  S2: not choosing to walk in it. But the second thing
• 15:19
  S2: about that story that brought me so much hope was
• 15:23
  S2: when God basically told Cain like, look, you're you're going
• 15:27
  S2: to be exiled now. Um, God oversaw that exile in
• 15:33
  S2: Cain's life. Uh, we're told that he put a mark
• 15:37
  S2: of protection on Cain, and he preserved Cain's life, enabling
• 15:42
  S2: Cain at any moment to turn around and say, you
• 15:45
  S2: know what? What I did was wrong. I need to
• 15:49
  S2: follow the Lord. I need to go back to my family.
• 15:52
  S2: I think God is telling us in His word that
• 15:54
  S2: there is going to be a separation when one of
• 15:56
  S2: our children choose something apart from what is good and
• 16:01
  S2: right in the eyes of the Lord and the way
• 16:02
  S2: that we have trained them up as Christian mamas. There
• 16:06
  S2: is going to be an element of separation there. But
• 16:09
  S2: that separation holds purpose, and God is working in it.
• 16:14
  S2: And God has not left our child. Our child may
• 16:18
  S2: feel far from us, but they're never far from God.
• 16:20
  S2: His hand of protection is right there upon them. Uh,
• 16:23
  S2: as much in this separation as it is when they
• 16:27
  S2: were still in our own households and still under our care. Uh,
• 16:31
  S2: they have never left God's care. And that gives me
• 16:34
  S2: such great hope, because when I didn't always know what
• 16:38
  S2: was going on with our son. I knew that God knew,
• 16:41
  S2: and I knew that God was with him. And I
• 16:43
  S2: knew that God was orchestrating things in his life for purpose,
• 16:48
  S2: even if it felt hard to watch sometimes.
• 16:51
  S1: Yeah. If you hear nothing else from our conversation today
• 16:56
  S1: with Eric and hear, hear two things. Number one, you're
• 17:00
  S1: not alone. It may seem like you're the only person
• 17:03
  S1: who's ever gone through this. You're not alone. Mom or dad. Um,
• 17:09
  S1: and the other thing is, you write this book is
• 17:12
  S1: a reminder that it is possible to stay connected to
• 17:16
  S1: God and your child in a season where both seem impossible.
• 17:22
  S1: So this conversation I feel like is, is really filled
• 17:27
  S1: with hope. And the, the struggle is you don't give
• 17:32
  S1: us the three steps or the five love languages to
• 17:37
  S1: Nothing wrong with three steps in love languages, but we.
• 17:40
  S1: What we want is the formula. And you're not giving
• 17:44
  S1: us a formula in this book. You're giving us a relationship, right?
• 17:49
  S3: Mhm. Mhm.
• 17:51
  S2: Yeah. I'm really glad you said that, because I feel
• 17:53
  S2: like that's where a lot of Christian moms get hung up, right?
• 17:57
  S2: It's like I followed the formula and the formula didn't work. Um,
• 18:02
  S2: and the reality is, is that the formula may very
• 18:06
  S2: well have worked, and we just haven't seen the results
• 18:09
  S2: of it yet. Uh, there are elements, there are elements
• 18:12
  S2: in every child's life where we cannot, we cannot steal
• 18:17
  S2: their testimony from them. God knows what he's doing in
• 18:22
  S2: their lives. And if they have to walk a hard
• 18:26
  S2: road or they have to experience a life choosing a
• 18:31
  S2: life apart from God for a season in order to
• 18:34
  S2: truly understand the love of God for all seasons. Um, then.
• 18:40
  S2: Then we have to release our children and allow God
• 18:43
  S2: to do that. Uh, but I will say there is
• 18:47
  S2: one formula, Chris. There's one formula that is everybody's formula.
• 18:51
  S2: No matter what we're walking through in this life. And
• 18:54
  S2: that is we have to build our lives on the
• 18:56
  S2: foundation of the love and character of God. And even
• 19:01
  S2: when God seems silent in this situation, he's never absent.
• 19:06
  S2: And even when God allows our children to to make
• 19:11
  S2: these choices that are breaking our hearts, we ultimately know
• 19:16
  S2: what kind of God he is. He is a good
• 19:18
  S2: God who loves our children, who loves us, who longs
• 19:22
  S2: for families to be together. He created families. And so
• 19:27
  S2: anytime in Scripture, when God has these exile seasons in
• 19:32
  S2: the lives of his people. There's always purpose in it.
• 19:36
  S2: He always has a plan of moving them towards repentance
• 19:41
  S2: and and reconciliation with him and reconciliation with one another
• 19:46
  S2: and redemption. And so we can't stay stuck in this
• 19:50
  S2: part of the story, this bend in the road that
• 19:52
  S2: literally feels like it's going to break us. Um, we
• 19:56
  S2: have to keep our eyes on God. That is the
• 19:58
  S2: formula to keep our eyes on God, to keep our
• 20:01
  S2: feet firmly planted in his character and the truth of
• 20:05
  S2: His word. God isn't finished with our family story yet.
• 20:10
  S2: I'm not on the other side where I have a neat, tidy,
• 20:13
  S2: wrapped up bow. I'm waiting in the trenches with you, Mama. Uh.
• 20:18
  S2: But what I do know is that God has not
• 20:21
  S2: forgotten you, and he's not forgotten your child. And there's
• 20:25
  S2: always hope and and pouring ourselves in relationship with him.
• 20:30
  S2: That's the formula.
• 20:36
  S1: Okay. That's Erica Wiggenhall. Even though she just broke it
• 20:40
  S1: up there a little bit. Loving your wayward child is
• 20:43
  S1: our featured resource, and I love it when she speaks
• 20:46
  S1: directly to the mama, because I know there's some mom
• 20:50
  S1: listening right now, and you are hanging on every word
• 20:53
  S1: because you need that hope. You want that reconciliation. Maybe
• 20:57
  S1: the no contact has come to you and you don't
• 21:00
  S1: know where to go. This is one of those resources
• 21:04
  S1: that will sink deeply. You'll come back to it, you'll
• 21:08
  S1: underline it. You'll pray through the sections of of the
• 21:11
  S1: book that she has. Look at the biblical, the people
• 21:15
  S1: that that populate the Bible who have gone through the
• 21:18
  S1: same kind of thing. Uh, it's Erica Horne's book, Loving
• 21:22
  S1: Your Wayward Child A Christian Guide to Stand in Faith
• 21:26
  S1: and Build Connection when their choices break your heart. Jan
• 21:31
  S1: is in Cleveland, Ohio. Jan, why did you call today?
• 21:35
  S4: Hi. I just want to give some encouragement to mamas
• 21:39
  S4: and parents out there that might be feeling discouraged or
• 21:43
  S4: cut off or without hope. Um, the Lord can do
• 21:47
  S4: so much. And that's what we found out in our story.
• 21:52
  S1: And, and what happened. Jan?
• 21:56
  S4: Um, kind of like Eric has been talking. One of
• 21:59
  S4: our kids chose a lifestyle that was very public, that
• 22:05
  S4: was very painful, not wanting to, um, be with the
• 22:10
  S4: rest of the family, be with us. And we were
• 22:12
  S4: just very discouraged and confused. And the Lord broke through
• 22:17
  S4: with the hope that nothing could stop us from loving them.
• 22:22
  S4: And during that season of waiting for him to move,
• 22:26
  S4: he showed us verses, um, to pray over them and
• 22:31
  S4: just worship him for what he wanted to do. And
• 22:35
  S4: about ten years later, now that same child is involved
• 22:39
  S4: in ministry using the story that they went through to
• 22:44
  S4: reach out to others. It has been fantastic. But during
• 22:49
  S4: those dark days, knowing that that's how we make him
• 22:53
  S4: feel when we sin or when we choose not to
• 22:56
  S4: be with him, and that we have the power of
• 23:01
  S4: His Holy Spirit to pray for them. And nothing could
• 23:05
  S4: stop us from loving them. That gave us an anchor
• 23:08
  S4: to hold on to during that crazy, stormy time.
• 23:12
  S1: Wow. Ten years and that is what you just described
• 23:16
  S1: then is not prescriptive. You know, if I do everything
• 23:20
  S1: that Jen just said, then at the end of that
• 23:23
  S1: ten years, then, you know, my son or my daughter
• 23:26
  S1: is going to have a testimony. That's why I know
• 23:29
  S1: that that may happen. It only happens because of God's
• 23:33
  S1: work in your heart and in their heart. And I
• 23:36
  S1: want to get Erika to respond to that. Erika, do
• 23:38
  S1: you agree with that?
• 23:40
  S2: I would absolutely agree with that. I am so rejoicing
• 23:44
  S2: with you, and I pray that that that ends up
• 23:47
  S2: being the story of many, many listeners out there today. Uh, and,
• 23:52
  S2: and I would, I would guess that you probably never
• 23:56
  S2: stopped praying for your child, am I right?
• 24:00
  S4: Uh. That's right.
• 24:02
  S2: Yes. Prayer is so powerful.
• 24:05
  S4: Yeah. With your help, some days were incredibly difficult, confusing, discouraging.
• 24:12
  S4: But he was so faithful.
• 24:15
  S5: Yeah. Here is here's what somebody.
• 24:16
  S1: Said on Facebook. Shawna said this. This is one way
• 24:20
  S1: to love your wayward child. Well, she said, always take
• 24:23
  S1: their call. Never close off the lines of communication and
• 24:27
  S1: end every phone call with I love you. And someone
• 24:30
  S1: responded to that and said, that's the best advice ever
• 24:33
  S1: to keep those lines of communication. You know, you're praying
• 24:36
  S1: for them every day in every way. But to be
• 24:40
  S1: able to, to pick up the phone or the text
• 24:44
  S1: or the email, whatever it is, and respond. Eric. Eric.
• 24:48
  S1: Is that really important?
• 24:52
  S2: It is. Chris. Um, I want to, I want to
• 24:55
  S2: talk though to a minute, just for a minute for
• 24:58
  S2: the mom out there that's maybe saying, well, that's great.
• 25:00
  S2: I would give anything to get a call from my child,
• 25:03
  S2: but they don't talk to me. They've completely cut me
• 25:05
  S2: out of their lives. What do I do?
• 25:07
  S5: Okay. Let me you want to hold that.
• 25:09
  S1: Right there because I don't have a minute before we
• 25:11
  S1: need to take a break. And I really want to
• 25:13
  S1: hear every bit of this. And so if that is
• 25:16
  S1: you and you're listening and you say, yes, I've been
• 25:18
  S1: cut out and I don't want to be cut out,
• 25:20
  S1: and I'd give anything to have a conversation with that
• 25:24
  S1: son or with that daughter. Maybe there are grandkids involved.
• 25:29
  S1: I want you to listen to what Erica has to say.
• 25:31
  S1: Straight ahead. This is Chris Fabry, live online. Chris Fabry, live.org.
• 25:37
  S1: Our featured resource is her book, Loving Your Wayward Child
• 25:41
  S1: A Christian Guide to Stand in Faith and Build Connection
• 25:45
  S1: when their choices break your heart again, go to Chris. relevant.org.
• 25:50
  S1: More straight ahead. This is one of those hard conversations
• 26:05
  S1: that will take you real deep, real fast. Erica Horn
• 26:09
  S1: is joining us. As she said at the beginning of
• 26:11
  S1: the program, we've talked about her Bible studies and had
• 26:14
  S1: really good conversations about what Scripture says. This is a
• 26:19
  S1: little bit different, Lane. She's still talking about what Scripture says,
• 26:23
  S1: but it's this deep wound, this this heartbreak of loving
• 26:27
  S1: your wayward child. That's our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org.
• 26:33
  S1: It's going to be a balm to somebody's heart. Just
• 26:36
  S1: this conversation and the book will take you even deeper.
• 26:39
  S1: Loving your wayward child. Go to Chris Fabry live.org. And
• 26:44
  S1: part of the reason why you wrote this is how
• 26:46
  S1: many women came up to you and talked about the
• 26:48
  S1: no contact. So jump in the deep end of that pool. Erica.
• 26:54
  S2: Yeah. Well, you know, we talked about this a little
• 26:57
  S2: bit already when whenever there is some sort of sin, right?
• 27:01
  S2: Whenever your child's making choices that are breaking your heart,
• 27:04
  S2: chances are they're also making choices that are breaking God's heart.
• 27:08
  S2: And whenever there's an element of sin, it's always going
• 27:10
  S2: to cause some level of separation. And we sense that
• 27:15
  S2: as moms, and that is what grieves us because we
• 27:18
  S2: want to be close to our children. Um, but so
• 27:23
  S2: many moms are experiencing this where the relationship just sort
• 27:27
  S2: of falls off the face of the earth, if you will,
• 27:30
  S2: because they don't want to talk to mom about the
• 27:33
  S2: choices that they're making. And some have gone so far
• 27:35
  S2: to just say, you know, they've blocked their mom from
• 27:39
  S2: their phone and email and, and all the things. Um,
• 27:44
  S2: one of the things that we have done in, uh,
• 27:47
  S2: writing loving your Wayward Child is we talk about a
• 27:50
  S2: concept called making bids for connection. And this became so
• 27:54
  S2: powerful for me when our son was literally, we didn't
• 28:00
  S2: even know where he was. Honestly, Chris, he was from
• 28:02
  S2: place to place to place. And, uh, we had very
• 28:06
  S2: little and base contact with him. And it was basically like,
• 28:10
  S2: you know, when we'd get a call in the middle
• 28:12
  S2: of the night from an emergency room or something like that,
• 28:14
  S2: that was the extent of our contact. And I came
• 28:17
  S2: across this in my research of making bids for connection.
• 28:22
  S2: And it it's essentially ways to reach out to your child,
• 28:28
  S2: to just communicate that you are wanting connection with them,
• 28:32
  S2: that you're thinking about them, that you care about them,
• 28:34
  S2: that you love them with very little expectation of them
• 28:39
  S2: to respond in any type of certain way in return. Um,
• 28:43
  S2: and this is hard for us as moms because we
• 28:45
  S2: pretty much spend our whole lives, uh, choosing communication with
• 28:49
  S2: our kids because we're trying to point them in a
• 28:51
  S2: direction or get them to move from point A to
• 28:55
  S2: point B. This is, this is conversation that centers solely
• 29:00
  S2: around connection, solely around relationship building. And the first several
• 29:06
  S2: times that I made a bid for connection, uh, I
• 29:10
  S2: got no response. He didn't even answer me. Uh, and
• 29:14
  S2: I remember one particular time, one of the things we
• 29:17
  S2: talk about in loving your wayward child is make a
• 29:19
  S2: bid for connection by centering the conversation around a positive
• 29:23
  S2: shared memory. And it happened to pop up on my phone.
• 29:28
  S2: A picture in the memories real thing of of a
• 29:32
  S2: vacation that we had gone on when he was about
• 29:35
  S2: eight years old. And on that vacation, he had been
• 29:38
  S2: able to ride on the back of a dolphin, and
• 29:43
  S2: he just absolutely squealed with delight. And a picture of
• 29:48
  S2: that popped up and I sent it to him and
• 29:52
  S2: I said, this popped up in my photo memories today
• 29:56
  S2: and it made me smile. I could still hear that
• 29:59
  S2: squeal of delight that you made as the dolphin was
• 30:03
  S2: swimming across the water. It just made. This memory made
• 30:06
  S2: my day and I wanted to share it with you.
• 30:09
  S2: I love you, mom. And that was the first time
• 30:12
  S2: that he responded to that bid for connection. Wow. And
• 30:15
  S2: I actually got a text back. Um, Uh, but it's important.
• 30:20
  S2: One of the things that we can do as moms
• 30:23
  S2: is learn how to communicate in a way that tells
• 30:27
  S2: our son or tells our daughter, I'm not looking for
• 30:31
  S2: a right answer here. I'm not trying to get you
• 30:34
  S2: to do something that I want. I just want to
• 30:39
  S2: connect with you and remind you that I love you.
• 30:41
  S2: And I'm always thinking about you, and you're important to me.
• 30:45
  S2: So that is an art of conversation. Yes.
• 30:48
  S5: Yes. Letting go of the strings. Because what I hear.
• 30:51
  S1: From a lot of parents, especially the no contact for
• 30:55
  S1: a while and their grandkids involved, is I don't understand,
• 30:59
  S1: and I want them to help me understand. I need
• 31:02
  S1: them to tell me, what did I do? You know,
• 31:06
  S1: that kind of thing. And that is there's strings there.
• 31:10
  S1: This is this is much less of you need to
• 31:14
  S1: do this and much more. Hey, I'm thinking about you. Uh,
• 31:18
  S1: here's here's here's what's going on in my soul. Love
• 31:22
  S1: you son.
• 31:22
  S2: Right, right, right. Absolutely. And, you know, one of the
• 31:27
  S2: things that's really fascinating when we look at Paul's letter
• 31:30
  S2: to Ephesians, we love to jump right to Ephesians six, right?
• 31:35
  S2: And it's like, put on your armor and you know
• 31:39
  S2: all of this, but we jump there and we skip
• 31:43
  S2: what Paul tells us in the preceding chapters in his letter.
• 31:47
  S2: And he essentially informs us that the arenas, the main
• 31:52
  S2: arenas where we're going to face spiritual opposition, it's going
• 31:56
  S2: to be in our marriages and in our homes. Those
• 32:00
  S2: are the the primary places. And then Paul breaks it
• 32:04
  S2: down even further and he says, parents, this is this
• 32:08
  S2: is the arena where it's going to happen with you
• 32:12
  S2: in your relationship with your children. And one of those main,
• 32:16
  S2: main ways that the enemy operates is he is going
• 32:21
  S2: to make the children exasperated with the parents. Uh, and
• 32:28
  S2: so we have to realize that whether that's our intent
• 32:32
  S2: to exasperate them or not, they have bought into this enticement,
• 32:37
  S2: this deception of the enemy, that every communication that we're
• 32:42
  S2: coming at them with has some sort of an agenda
• 32:46
  S2: behind it. Now, we, as mom, know that's not always true.
• 32:50
  S2: Sometimes it is true, let's be honest. But it's not
• 32:53
  S2: always true. Sometimes we're just like, I love you and
• 32:55
  S2: I want to be with you. Uh, but they are
• 32:58
  S2: hearing that lie every time we're reaching out and communicating
• 33:03
  S2: with them. And so the biggest way that we can
• 33:06
  S2: break that lie and break that perception is to learn
• 33:10
  S2: how to communicate with our child in a way that
• 33:12
  S2: says there are no expectations here. This is just me
• 33:17
  S2: wanting to say I love you. And there's an. It's
• 33:22
  S2: a process to learn. Uh, it was definitely a process
• 33:24
  S2: for me to learn, but we talk about it a
• 33:26
  S2: lot in Loving Your Wayward Child. And I think it's
• 33:29
  S2: a really big key to rebuilding some of those broken relationships.
• 33:35
  S1: I think you have just helped frame Ephesians two eight
• 33:40
  S1: through ten differently than I've ever heard it. Meaning, I've
• 33:45
  S1: always looked at your say by grace through faith. It's
• 33:48
  S1: not of yourself. It's God's gift, not you can't work
• 33:52
  S1: for it. Nobody can boast. For we are his creation,
• 33:55
  S1: his workmanship, his poems created in Christ Jesus for good works,
• 34:01
  S1: which God prepared ahead of time so that we could
• 34:03
  S1: walk in them. So if that really is true, and
• 34:06
  S1: if God is sovereign over everything in our lives, then
• 34:09
  S1: this wayward child's choices Those choices are providing me an
• 34:15
  S1: opportunity to do what God has prepared in advance for
• 34:21
  S1: me to do to love that wayward child. And he's
• 34:26
  S1: even using the rebellion for my good and his glory.
• 34:32
  S1: Does that make sense?
• 34:34
  S2: Yeah, it does make sense. That does make sense. And
• 34:36
  S2: it's really hard to wrap our minds around that sometimes,
• 34:39
  S2: isn't it? Especially when we're hurting. When we're hurting, it's
• 34:44
  S2: so hard to be able to move our thoughts and
• 34:48
  S2: move our, our understanding of our circumstances into something that
• 34:53
  S2: is greater and beyond what we are facing when we
• 34:57
  S2: are sitting in the pain. And that's one of the
• 35:01
  S2: things that I wanted to really help moms do. Chris,
• 35:06
  S2: in Loving Your Wayward Child is to open up specific
• 35:11
  S2: scriptures and look at very specific stories of God and
• 35:16
  S2: be reminded that that God is so much bigger than
• 35:21
  S2: this moment. Uh, one of the stories that just really,
• 35:26
  S2: really struck me is in Joshua, when they're getting ready
• 35:31
  S2: to cross over into the promised land and God, you know,
• 35:34
  S2: basically says like, okay, you're going to get 12 guys
• 35:37
  S2: and they're going to get 12 big stones, and they're
• 35:39
  S2: going to stack these big stones on the other side
• 35:41
  S2: of the river, and it's going to be a memorial
• 35:43
  S2: for all time. And right before you're going to do this, Joshua,
• 35:47
  S2: I need you to know that at this moment when
• 35:50
  S2: this happens and I dry up the river, this is
• 35:52
  S2: going to be the moment that I exalt you in
• 35:55
  S2: front of the people of Israel, and you are going
• 35:58
  S2: to be esteemed, you know, as as Moses 2.0, Joshua.
• 36:04
  S2: This this is what this time is that's coming for you.
• 36:07
  S2: And in the middle of that, when you read that story.
• 36:12
  S2: It appears that Joshua has his own stone stacking moment
• 36:17
  S2: where he takes stones and he puts them in the
• 36:20
  S2: middle of the Jordan, uh, while the ground is dry.
• 36:24
  S2: And I thought to myself, well, that's really interesting. Like,
• 36:27
  S2: why would God ask Joshua to do that? Because the
• 36:30
  S2: water is going to come back. Nobody's going to know
• 36:32
  S2: the stones that are there and what is happening here.
• 36:36
  S2: And I think when you look at that, that one
• 36:38
  S2: little snapshot in the whole story of Joshua's life, God
• 36:44
  S2: wanted Joshua to have that special moment with him, to
• 36:47
  S2: be reminded that God had chosen him. He had chosen
• 36:51
  S2: him for this task, and he had chosen him to
• 36:54
  S2: be the leader of his people. And, and Joshua was
• 36:58
  S2: going to get on the other side of that river,
• 36:59
  S2: and he was going to make some really big mistakes. Uh,
• 37:03
  S2: but he was going to follow the Lord. Uh, his
• 37:06
  S2: whole life. And I think that there's such a lesson
• 37:11
  S2: for us in that Chris's moms, because we have literally
• 37:14
  S2: stacked stones, uh, years and years of stacking stones in
• 37:21
  S2: our child's life. And they might appear buried under waves
• 37:27
  S2: of time. And we've made mistakes and there's things that
• 37:31
  S2: we wish we could have done differently or things that
• 37:33
  S2: we wish we could do over. But the reality is,
• 37:35
  S2: is that just like God chose Joshua, God chose you
• 37:40
  S2: to be your child's mom, and God chose me to
• 37:44
  S2: be my child's mom. And the good work that we
• 37:47
  S2: have done in, in following the Lord in that call
• 37:51
  S2: has not been forgotten. It's not been forgotten by God.
• 37:54
  S2: And he rewards good work. And so we can, we
• 38:00
  S2: can understand that that two things can be true at
• 38:03
  S2: the same time. We can be good moms and still
• 38:07
  S2: have children that make bad choices sometimes. And the reality is,
• 38:12
  S2: is that all of God's kids make bad choices sometimes.
• 38:17
  S2: But that doesn't mean that God is not with us.
• 38:20
  S1: And if you were in that wilderness, I'm hoping that
• 38:24
  S1: you hear the hope and Erica's voice today. Loving Your
• 38:28
  S1: Wayward Child is our featured resource at the website Chris
• 38:31
  S1: Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry Live for a Christian Guide to
• 38:37
  S1: stand in faith and build connection when their choices break
• 38:41
  S1: your heart. So if that's where you are at. One
• 38:44
  S1: segment left. More questions for Erica coming up straight ahead
• 38:48
  S1: on Moody Radio. Erica is the first person I've ever
• 39:01
  S1: heard say enabling cane. I wrote that down when she
• 39:06
  S1: said it was like, I've never heard a cane enabling cane.
• 39:10
  S1: She's written a book titled Loving Your Wayward Child, and
• 39:14
  S1: Anne is on the line. Anne, tell me your situation.
• 39:19
  S6: Um, I've got a daughter who looks like she's going
• 39:23
  S6: back to her drug boyfriend.
• 39:26
  S1: Mhm.
• 39:27
  S6: And, uh, it causes strife in my marriage.
• 39:35
  S1: And your heart's breaking over her and her choices. And
• 39:39
  S1: your husband is, uh, he's he's ready to. Just not. Yeah,
• 39:44
  S1: he's angry and ready to give up, right?
• 39:48
  S6: Yes. Yeah. Yes.
• 39:50
  S1: Okay. So, Erica, what would you say to Anne?
• 39:55
  S2: Yeah. Uh, is your daughter asking you for help? Anne?
• 39:59
  S2: Is she. You're just wanting to maintain contact with her
• 40:04
  S2: and her and your husband is not. Can you explain
• 40:09
  S2: a little bit more, please?
• 40:10
  S6: She is. Um. I'm her guardian. Her legal guardian because
• 40:16
  S6: she has, um, learning disabilities and, uh, skills that she
• 40:23
  S6: can't attain. And so. I, I feel like I'm in
• 40:31
  S6: the middle, but I don't know exactly how to.
• 40:37
  S2: Say, and.
• 40:38
  S6: I don't want to enable it. Yes.
• 40:41
  S3: Mhm.
• 40:41
  S2: Yeah. That's that's so hard. Uh, we talked about this
• 40:45
  S2: a little bit. I, I think it was in, uh,
• 40:47
  S2: segment two, it sounds like you and your husband are
• 40:51
  S2: in different stages of the grief process. He's very much
• 40:54
  S2: in the angry stage. Uh, you're maybe more in the
• 40:59
  S2: bargaining stage or, or the despair stage. I certainly don't
• 41:04
  S2: want to put words in your mouth, but one of
• 41:06
  S2: the things is to recognize that you are in two
• 41:08
  S2: different stages of the grief process. The second thing that
• 41:14
  S2: I think would be really helpful is for you and
• 41:16
  S2: your husband to sit down together and maybe come up
• 41:19
  S2: with help with a plan so that you can be
• 41:24
  S2: in agreement of what it looks like to actually help
• 41:27
  S2: your daughter without enabling your daughter. Uh, and you may
• 41:32
  S2: need to bring a third party into this discussion with
• 41:37
  S2: you to keep it focused on, uh, a good outcome
• 41:42
  S2: and actually walk away with a plan, whether maybe it's a,
• 41:45
  S2: a trusted family member or a pastor or a biblical
• 41:50
  S2: counselor or something like that. Um, one of the things that, uh,
• 41:55
  S2: my husband and I had to do was we did
• 41:59
  S2: have to bring in a third Party person, uh, sometimes
• 42:04
  S2: to help us really sort through things and make sure
• 42:07
  S2: that we weren't making decisions just out of an emotional reaction,
• 42:11
  S2: but what was going to actually be helpful. And then
• 42:15
  S2: we came up with certain plans. I'll give you an example. Uh,
• 42:18
  S2: our son is currently in a situation where he needs
• 42:22
  S2: a vehicle. He needs a car. But historically, uh, anytime
• 42:27
  S2: that we've given our son money, um, it ends up
• 42:30
  S2: being used for purposes that we don't agree with. And
• 42:36
  S2: the money just sort of ends up going down the
• 42:38
  S2: the drain rather than actually helping him in any way
• 42:41
  S2: long term. So one of the things that my husband
• 42:44
  S2: and I agreed on was that we would tell him
• 42:48
  S2: to save a certain amount of money. And once he
• 42:52
  S2: saved a certain amount of money on his own, we
• 42:55
  S2: would match it and then enable him to get the vehicle.
• 43:00
  S2: but he had to do the work first. So that
• 43:03
  S2: became our help with the plan. Like, uh, we're here
• 43:07
  S2: to help you. We want to help you. We want
• 43:09
  S2: to see you succeed. We need you to do this first,
• 43:14
  S2: and then we will come alongside of you and bring
• 43:17
  S2: you over to the other end of the finish line.
• 43:20
  S2: So maybe having some of those conversations with your husband
• 43:24
  S2: as far as what does he need to see your
• 43:28
  S2: daughter doing in order to feel comfortable coming alongside of
• 43:32
  S2: her and continuing to help her.
• 43:35
  S1: And hang on? And I want you to get a
• 43:37
  S1: copy of the book, and we're going to send that
• 43:39
  S1: to you. So Tricia will get your information or Lisa will. Um,
• 43:43
  S1: but Erica, would it help? And as I'm just kind
• 43:48
  S1: of processing what you've said. Would it help Anne to
• 43:52
  S1: be able to move toward her husband with that third party?
• 43:55
  S1: Or not to say I, I really understand your anger
• 44:00
  S1: and I, I, I've, I'm there or I've been there before.
• 44:05
  S1: So it's like, like we're feeling some of the same
• 44:08
  S1: things so that you, you're not pushing him away for
• 44:13
  S1: being angry. What do you think of that?
• 44:17
  S2: Yeah, I think it's really important that that your husband
• 44:20
  S2: feels like you're on his team and that it that
• 44:25
  S2: his feelings and his perceptions and perspective are equally, if
• 44:32
  S2: not more important to you. Really, they should be more
• 44:34
  S2: important to you than your feelings towards your daughter, because
• 44:38
  S2: that marriage unit is, is foundational. And if that marriage
• 44:43
  S2: unit is fractured and you are both approaching your daughter
• 44:48
  S2: from different places, you're not really going to be able
• 44:51
  S2: to offer her a solid, godly help because neither of
• 44:56
  S2: you are operating from a place where you've prioritized your
• 44:59
  S2: marriage first. So I think it I think it needs
• 45:03
  S2: to start with saying to your husband, help me understand
• 45:06
  S2: where you're coming from. Help me understand what you're feeling
• 45:10
  S2: and what you're thinking and what your concerns are and
• 45:14
  S2: apprehensions are, so that you and I can be on
• 45:17
  S2: the same page because that's really, really important to me.
• 45:21
  S1: Yeah. Because the hope here is that the wayward child's
• 45:25
  S1: waywardness doesn't destroy the marriage, that it does the opposite,
• 45:32
  S1: that it makes you that one one team together. I
• 45:35
  S1: know it sounds like it's very far away from being
• 45:38
  S1: that way right now. I'm so sorry for what you're
• 45:41
  S1: going through. And. But as I said a little earlier,
• 45:44
  S1: you are not alone, friend. You are not alone. There's
• 45:47
  S1: a lot of people and just you sharing what you've
• 45:49
  S1: shared here today has given somebody that realization that an
• 45:55
  S1: is is going through the same thing type of thing
• 45:57
  S1: that I'm going through. Eric, I can't thank you enough
• 46:00
  S1: for putting this book together, for doing the hard work
• 46:04
  S1: of putting your life through that sieve and allowing God
• 46:09
  S1: to give you the, the hope that he can give
• 46:11
  S1: in the middle. You're still in the middle of it.
• 46:13
  S1: Come back and see us real soon, okay?
• 46:16
  S2: Okay. Thank you. Chris.
• 46:18
  S1: Eric Einhorn has written Loving Your Wayward Child A Christian
• 46:23
  S1: Guide to Stand in Faith and Build Connection when their
• 46:25
  S1: choices break your heart. Featured resource@chris.org. Chris Fabry live.org. Tomorrow
• 46:35
  S1: on the program. 40 years ago, he came up with
• 46:38
  S1: a story. He's coming back again. Mr. Frank Peretti right
• 46:42
  S1: here on Chris Fabry live production of Moody Radio, a
• 46:45
  S1: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.