Latest / Karl and Crew / Making Disciples Through Real Relationships with Leonard Tanks Jr. & Every Disciple is a Disciple Maker with Dr. David Nelms

Transcript

Making Disciples Through Real Relationships with Leonard Tanks Jr. & Every Disciple is a Disciple Maker with Dr. David Nelms · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:05
  S1: and crew.
• 0:06
  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
• 0:11
  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
• 0:14
  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
• 0:16
  S2: Cold spaghetti is great. Okay.
• 0:19
  S3: Okay, I disagree, I guess. No, no, certainly it is not. No. Okay. Well, man,
• 0:26
  S3: I'm going back.
• 0:26
  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
• 0:29
  S2: was universally loved.
• 0:31
  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. And it feels like.
• 0:37
  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
• 0:42
  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
• 0:48
  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
• 0:53
  S5: Our own way never ever works because it's apart from
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  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 1:10
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 1:15
  S1: and Crew.
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  S2: If you missed it yesterday, we want to make sure
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  S2: you got it today. We have got a big trip
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  S2: planned and all we're lacking is you. And by the way,
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  S2: I got word yesterday at high noon that rooms are
• 1:28
  S2: filling up already. Ali.
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  S4: Yes, this is crews with Moody Radio to Alaska in 2027.
• 1:34
  S4: So almost exactly a year from now, a one week
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  S4: cruise that what part of Alaska you've been using the
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  S4: the inland.
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  S2: The inside passage.
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  S4: Inside passage. Okay. I want to make sure I get
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  S4: that right. You are going to see just incredible sights
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  S4: and take in great teaching, discipleship, discipleship cruise with Doctor
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  S4: Michael Riedel and Carl. There's also going to be worship
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  S4: led by Micah Tyler, who you hear often on Moody radio.
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  S4: So this is going to be an incredible just man,
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  S4: a time away, a time of connection with other brothers
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  S4: and sisters in Christ, a time of real growth. And
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  S4: sometimes it's just those trips that get you out of
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  S4: your normal routine, off the phone, out of, you know,
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  S4: maybe a little bit of vacation time. But this is
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  S4: more than just a vacation. This is true discipleship. So
• 2:19
  S4: get the link. Just text Cruz to 805 five, five, 78, 98.
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  S4: There is a just exhaustive amount of information on this website,
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  S4: so spend some time with it. See if this is
• 2:29
  S4: a good fit for you. Just text Cruz to 805 557898.
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  S2: Yeah, I am fired up about this. You know, a
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  S2: lot of people ask the question, what are the what
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  S2: are the situations that you find yourself in that can
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  S2: most help you spiritually? And I think if we have,
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  S2: as we talk a lot around here about an eye
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  S2: to application, that's a big deal. You can be in
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  S2: almost any situation. As I was up early this morning
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  S2: listening to the Lord opening the word. It's an awesome
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  S2: thing to be able to hear the voice of God
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  S2: and then walk in it, right? If you live in
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  S2: the spirit, keep in step with the spirit. But I
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  S2: would have to say that one of the things that
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  S2: gets underrated for real ability to do a course correction
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  S2: in your life are intensive, um, intensive, almost like the
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  S2: equivalent of block learning in seminary where you come in
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  S2: on a Friday night and spend all day Saturday. I
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  S2: found those to be immensely valuable to me spiritually, even
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  S2: more so than an hour and a half in class.
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  S2: And the I think the biggest evidence for me was
• 3:41
  S2: a big old Promise Keepers rally. Back in the day,
• 3:45
  S2: I took a couple of busloads of guys down to Dallas, Texas.
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  S2: We had a fiasco with rooms that we had reserved.
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  S2: It was just an absolute mess. They basically oversold the
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  S2: hotel and all of our guys got bumped from rooms.
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  S2: So and there was not a hotel around because it
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  S2: was Promise Keepers showed up in town and we wound
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  S2: up getting everyone a bed. And I got mine at
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  S2: about three in the morning because I was leading the trip.
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  S2: I was the last one to get a bed. They
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  S2: finally found one for me and it was a very
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  S2: short night, but it was an extraordinary event. There is
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  S2: something about that that had such a long tail impact
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  S2: on numbers of men that I know that went on
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  S2: that because there's this there's a value of being immersed
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  S2: in truth for a period of time that can really
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  S2: be transformational to your spiritual trajectory. I believe this trip
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  S2: is going to be that I do. I believe this
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  S2: trip is going to be that for you. I think
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  S2: we're going to have enough time. And here's the beauty.
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  S2: You put nine sessions with Michael and myself and Micah Tyler.
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  S2: Opening the word and worshipping it into us, which maybe
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  S2: you've not been a part of that before, but we're
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  S2: working on these on these sessions that they will be that.
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  S2: And you do that morning and afternoon, morning and evening,
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  S2: however it works. And then midday getting out at Juneau
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  S2: or Sitka or Glacier Bay or Victoria. I really believe
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  S2: you put that lethal combination of, of being peaked and
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  S2: awareness in awe of God and what he has created,
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  S2: combined with the truth of His word and worshiping that
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  S2: into us. This is a trip that's going to change you.
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  S2: I truly believe that it's going to change me. It's
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  S2: changing me now as I'm prepping for it, I'm year
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  S2: out and Michael and I are prepping for this trip.
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  S2: How sweet is.
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  S3: That?
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  S4: You know, it's exciting to hear that people are already
• 5:47
  S4: jumping on it, and we're excited for you to be
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  S4: a part of it. Just text Cruz to 805 557898.
• 5:56
  S4: This will get you all the details so that you
• 5:58
  S4: can get questions answered and ultimately get registered. If it's
• 6:01
  S4: for you, just text cruise to 805 557898.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: What a, what a joy. Um, I gotta tell you guys,
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  S2: we are talking discipleship this whole week. And if you
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  S2: heard David Nelms or Pastor tanks that it leads to
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  S2: a question that is an interesting one. And it's an
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  S2: assumption that a lot of us miss because it's a
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  S2: real thing, this thing called discipleship. And the hint is
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  S2: we're all doing it. Hang on.
• 6:33
  S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Curl and
• 6:36
  S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 6:38
  S2: It's Carl and crew. We're talking discipleship. You know, it's
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  S2: interesting because it was probably 30 years ago now it
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  S2: dawned on me, we don't need to teach people how
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  S2: to worship Everybody is bowing down to someone or something.
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  S2: And when that hit me, that was it was like, wow.
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  S2: Lights went on. And the goal is not then to
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  S2: get people to learn how to worship. It's redirecting the
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  S2: object of their worship to God and Him alone.
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  S5: That's 100% correct. Everyone believer or non-believer, atheist or non
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  S5: atheist is worshiping something.
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  S2: Yeah, we're all bowing down to something. Well, here's the irony.
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  S2: When it comes to discipleship, the same thing is true.
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  S2: We're all being shaped or guided by someone or something,
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  S2: and all you have to do is go through scripture
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  S2: and find a smattering of these truths. Do not be
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  S2: conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing
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  S2: of your mind. First Corinthians 1533. Do not be deceived.
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  S2: Bad company corrupts good morals. Colossians two eight. See to
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  S2: it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and
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  S2: empty deception. You can be a a disciple of philosophy
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  S2: and empty deception. It goes on and on. You walk
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  S2: with the wise. You're going to become wise. Companions of
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  S2: fools suffer harm. So this is fascinating, isn't it, guys?
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  S2: Because the like worship, we're all being shaped and discipled
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  S2: by something.
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S2: Isn't that wild?
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  S4: Yeah. You know, I just looked up just Merriam Webster
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  S4: definition of disciple. And it's one who accepts and assists
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  S4: in spreading the doctrines of another.
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  S2: Whatever that doctrine may be.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S4: Whatever it is you're accepting and you're assisting in the
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  S4: spread of of doctrine of something. So obviously it's often
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  S4: linked to religion, but it doesn't have to be because
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  S4: you're being you're accepting some sort of doctrine and spreading something.
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  S3: Boom.
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  S5: Yeah. 100%. I remember this is kind of the first
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  S5: time my eyes were opened up to this reality. I
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  S5: was really frustrated with someone. Uh, they they're not a believer. And,
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  S5: and the way that they were operating was, was hurtful.
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  S5: And it was hard. And, and it made things difficult.
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  S5: And I was talking with my dad about it and
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  S5: I was just frustrated. And he said, John, just to
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  S5: help me have a little more compassion. He said, Jonathan,
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  S5: you have to realize that from the moment they were
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  S5: growing up, they were being discipled. They were being discipled
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  S5: in the wrong truths. They were being discipled in how
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  S5: to live life the wrong way, as if it was
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  S5: the right way. And now they're grown up and they're adults,
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  S5: and they're solidified in that. It doesn't mean they can't change,
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  S5: but it means have compassion on them because someone was
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  S5: discipling them their whole life. Teaching them another way of
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  S5: life was true when it's not. And then I was like, whoa,
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  S5: believer or non-believer, we're all being discipled by the people
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  S5: in our lives, by the things in our lives, by
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  S5: those things we hold most dear.
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  S2: Big time. It's a great, great, wise word from your dad.
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  S2: And boy, that gives you some sobriety and then some
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  S2: clarity going, oh, okay. Yes, that makes sense now.
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  S5: Absolutely. It explains everything. It explains everyone to to a
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  S5: certain degree.
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  S2: Now you you brought something to the table here. That's
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  S2: really cool.
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  S3: Young thunder.
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  S5: Yeah. I was excited about this. My wife showed me
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  S5: this just a little while ago. Uh, this is from the,
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  S5: the Robertson's. The Robertson family. Duck dynasty family. Uh, they're
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  S5: unashamed podcast. And Jace Robertson, one of the hosts of
• 10:23
  S5: the show, was narrating this poem written by a New
• 10:27
  S5: York City pastor, John Tyson, uh, called The Algorithm is
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  S5: My Shepherd. And what John Tyson did was he took
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  S5: the words of Psalm 23 and he changed it instead of,
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  S5: the Lord is my shepherd, the algorithm is my shepherd.
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  S5: And then what is true, if that is the case
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  S5: in our lives. And so this is Jace Robertson reading
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  S5: that poem.
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  S7: This this is John Tyson. It's called cultural shepherding. The
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  S7: algorithm is my shepherd. I shall always want. It makes
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  S7: me doomscroll through digital pastures. It leads me beside the
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  S7: rapids of engagement. It activates my anxiety. It guides me
• 11:16
  S7: along paths of monetization for its profits sake. Even though
• 11:22
  S7: I walk through the valley of comparison, I will fear
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  S7: missing out. For you are always tracking me. Your notifications
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  S7: and your ads. They compel me. You prepare a curated
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  S7: feed before me in the presence of those I envy.
• 11:47
  S7: You fill my head with validation. My anxiety overflows. Surely
• 11:53
  S7: dissatisfaction and envy will follow me all the days of
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  S7: my life. And I will dwell in your monetized data
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  S7: analytics forever.
• 12:05
  S3: Oh my.
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  S2: Goodness. That is good. It's good because it's true.
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  S3: It's true.
• 12:13
  S2: I mean, let's get real honest here, guys. Anyone that
• 12:17
  S2: has spent any time and this is not just social media,
• 12:19
  S2: but this is a dominant thing. But I mean, if
• 12:22
  S2: you have company around you and that dominant conversation around
• 12:27
  S2: that company is fill in the blank, you're going to get,
• 12:31
  S2: that's going to start filtering into your brain and guide
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  S2: how you live. This is why we're called to separate
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  S2: ourselves from it. But that is a powerful little piece.
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  S2: John Tyson, man. he's the guy. Who is he? I
• 12:45
  S2: found out he didn't invent the quote, but he's the
• 12:47
  S2: guy that said, God cannot change who you pretend to be,
• 12:50
  S2: just who you really are.
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S5: Amen.
• 12:53
  S2: Wow. Okay, so we got a question for you, don't we, Ali?
• 12:57
  S4: Yeah. This is one to just kind of ruminate on. Yeah.
• 13:00
  S4: And if you want to shoot us a text response,
• 13:03
  S4: we'd love to interact with you on it. What is
• 13:06
  S4: discipling you? What or who is discipling you? When you
• 13:09
  S4: think about what is shaping how you think, what is
• 13:13
  S4: maybe the doctrine that you're spreading? Now we are all
• 13:16
  S4: disciples of Jesus Christ. Once we become. Well, you know,
• 13:19
  S4: let me be careful because Erwin Lutzer yesterday drew a
• 13:21
  S4: distinction between that. So I want to I don't want
• 13:23
  S4: to make that definitive statement. But what are you being
• 13:26
  S4: discipled by other than the Word of God? Let's put
• 13:30
  S4: it that way, because we're being discipled by other things, too.
• 13:33
  S4: What do you say, 805, five, five, 78, 98? What
• 13:37
  S4: is that primary influence? That's if you're honest, boy, it's
• 13:40
  S4: having a big impact on how you think and how
• 13:43
  S4: you talk. What is discipling you other than the Word
• 13:47
  S4: of God? 805 557898.
• 13:51
  S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl
• 13:55
  S1: and crew.
• 13:56
  S2: Yeah, man. Uh, we just played Psalm 23 and instead
• 14:02
  S2: of the Lord is my shepherd. It is the algorithm
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  S2: is my shepherd. This is a very real issue today.
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  S2: And this is this actually has a lot of tentacles
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  S2: to it. This is why a lot of really good
• 14:16
  S2: parents really wrestle with, whether it's high school or even college,
• 14:21
  S2: and it's a great wrestling match. And by the way,
• 14:23
  S2: I don't think I don't never believe there's one size
• 14:26
  S2: fits all. But you know, when you this this is
• 14:31
  S2: a truism when you send kids off to college that
• 14:34
  S2: don't have a Christian worldview firmly in place and anchored.
• 14:39
  S2: And they go to some kind of a college that's
• 14:42
  S2: filled with philosophies that are incredibly worldly. There is no
• 14:48
  S2: way to deny the fact that we're all discipled by
• 14:51
  S2: someone or something, because you can literally see the shift
• 14:56
  S2: in a thinking of a child in a matter of
• 15:00
  S2: a semester or two. And I'm talking to a lot
• 15:03
  S2: of you right now that you're like, yeah, you got
• 15:05
  S2: that right, man. I mean, it's absolutely real. And that
• 15:08
  S2: that's what leads a lot of parents to debate. Boy,
• 15:12
  S2: do I put my kid here. Do I put my
• 15:14
  S2: kid there? And those are good questions to wrestle with
• 15:16
  S2: because this is the truth that we're dealing with today.
• 15:19
  S2: We are all discipled by someone or some thing. Now,
• 15:23
  S2: this does not mean you go into a bunker and
• 15:27
  S2: separate yourself from the world. No, we're lights in this
• 15:30
  S2: world today, but the issue of us dominant influence on
• 15:36
  S2: our way of thinking, whether it be a person, a place,
• 15:40
  S2: or a thing. That's worth asking, isn't it?
• 15:42
  S4: Holly it is. And you know, this. The social media
• 15:45
  S4: thing is so big, and maybe you are somebody who
• 15:47
  S4: has no real influence. You're not influenced at all by
• 15:50
  S4: social media because you've opted out altogether, which I think
• 15:53
  S4: is phenomenal. I think the high, high majority of people
• 15:59
  S4: who interact in any way online are shaped by, in
• 16:03
  S4: some way by what they're seeing, whether you're spending time
• 16:06
  S4: on Facebook, sharing different articles and perspectives. The algorithm is
• 16:10
  S4: a funny thing because you don't even have to click
• 16:12
  S4: on something the minute you just slow down to even
• 16:15
  S4: look for a second, then your the algorithm is going
• 16:19
  S4: to feed you more content that it thinks is going
• 16:22
  S4: to keep your attention. And so it is. It is
• 16:24
  S4: wild how this works and how smart this. The system
• 16:29
  S4: just to I'll just call it the system has become
• 16:31
  S4: in keeping us engaged in the things it thinks we want.
• 16:34
  S4: And it's, it's a, it can get pretty unhealthy pretty fast.
• 16:39
  S2: Yeah. It's real.
• 16:39
  S5: Can I share with you guys just a little bit
• 16:41
  S5: of a, you know, for vulnerability sake and that we
• 16:45
  S5: all walk through it. Sake. Uh, something that I have
• 16:48
  S5: been convicted of, that I've been discipled too much by, uh,
• 16:53
  S5: is entertainment in my life that I, I have to
• 16:57
  S5: have entertainment that this entertainment has. Like it matters. For instance, uh,
• 17:03
  S5: I finally caught up to the, the season finale of survivor,
• 17:07
  S5: who I, which I really like and the person I
• 17:09
  S5: wanted to win didn't win. And it made me mad
• 17:12
  S5: for about two hours.
• 17:14
  S2: And who do you want to win?
• 17:16
  S5: I wanted Jonathan to win.
• 17:17
  S3: I knew it.
• 17:18
  S5: Yeah. I like Jonathan.
• 17:18
  S3: He's a good guy.
• 17:19
  S2: I did see that finale and that was very interesting.
• 17:23
  S5: It was very interesting. And but as I was going
• 17:26
  S5: through the day, I was convicted that entertainment was mattering
• 17:29
  S5: too much to me that that my day didn't feel
• 17:34
  S5: as good when the things that I wasn't that I
• 17:37
  S5: was entertained by either weren't there or when the things
• 17:40
  S5: I wanted to happen didn't happen. And, and I think
• 17:44
  S5: that a subconscious non-intentional effect of having entertainment disciple me
• 17:50
  S5: that much and matter that much in my life was
• 17:53
  S5: that it sometimes all. I'm speaking from the perspective. I
• 17:58
  S5: have been convicted by this and I recognize it and
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  S5: I'm looking to move forward, is that sometimes it made
• 18:05
  S5: the things of God seem less interesting to me. I
• 18:09
  S5: don't want that.
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  S2: Yeah, that's really good self-awareness.
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  S3: But.
• 18:13
  S2: That's the Spirit of God working in you, bro.
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  S5: Absolutely is.
• 18:15
  S3: I've been.
• 18:16
  S5: Discipled.
• 18:17
  S2: For having confession time here. Mine was for years, and
• 18:21
  S2: I mean, it was bad. Sports became way too important
• 18:25
  S2: to me, way too important. And I had a conversation
• 18:30
  S2: with a friend of mine who's about ten years older
• 18:32
  S2: than me. And he had I mean, he was a
• 18:36
  S2: crazy Arkansas Razorback, Saint Louis Cardinals, a few other teams.
• 18:41
  S2: I mean, nutcase and great dude, phenomenal brother in Christ.
• 18:48
  S2: But he was pouring his heart out to me at
• 18:50
  S2: the very time I was getting convicted. He said, this
• 18:53
  S2: is crazy. I have given up my season tickets for
• 18:57
  S2: one team. I said, really? He goes, yeah. He said, when?
• 19:02
  S2: When my moods rise and fall. On how this football
• 19:05
  S2: team is doing, even for an hour or two, he said,
• 19:09
  S2: something's wrong. He said, the tomb is empty, Karl. And
• 19:13
  S2: I'm like, dude, you're taking my words. He goes, I
• 19:17
  S2: know I am. I'm taking your words. But it's true, dude.
• 19:21
  S2: And it really gave me some sobering perspective and it's
• 19:27
  S2: helped me a ton. And by the way, it makes
• 19:30
  S2: watching sports a whole lot better when you aren't hung
• 19:34
  S2: up on the handlebars of the results as much.
• 19:36
  S5: Absolutely. When it doesn't matter as much. It's all way
• 19:39
  S5: more enjoyable.
• 19:41
  S2: It really is, isn't it?
• 19:42
  S5: Oh yeah. Because you're not. You're your day doesn't depend
• 19:46
  S5: on whether your team wins or not. And and you
• 19:49
  S5: can just look and enjoy and, and watch good, good football.
• 19:54
  S5: I love good football. And so some of the best
• 19:56
  S5: games I watch are the games where my team isn't
• 19:58
  S5: involved because I can just be like, oh, that was
• 20:01
  S5: a great play. And then the other team makes a
• 20:03
  S5: great play and that was a great play too. And
• 20:05
  S5: I'm enjoying both sides. Yeah, it's.
• 20:07
  S3: Kind of fun.
• 20:07
  S2: You can actually enjoy both sides. You can get fired
• 20:10
  S2: up when your team wins and there's nothing unspiritual about that.
• 20:13
  S3: Correct.
• 20:14
  S2: But there is. I mean, we got a big deal
• 20:17
  S2: going on in Chicago here, guys. And it's called the bears.
• 20:22
  S2: And they're trying to build a multibillion dollar stadium in
• 20:26
  S2: one of the suburbs. And they got all the land
• 20:28
  S2: and everything, and they're trying to get tax credits. And
• 20:30
  S2: I'm not falling on one side or the other, but
• 20:33
  S2: it has been a joy for me to go whatever.
• 20:36
  S2: If it lands in Indiana, the team it lands in Indiana,
• 20:39
  S2: that'd be a bummer. But guess what? The world will
• 20:43
  S2: still keep rolling on. And my Jesus is still Lord.
• 20:47
  S2: And boy, that's a freeing place to be.
• 20:49
  S4: Totally. And you know, you think one thing that I
• 20:52
  S4: think is a good indicator of this, at least for me,
• 20:54
  S4: is the thing that what comes out most easily, that
• 20:58
  S4: you're most prone to talk about.
• 21:00
  S2: Yeah, you're right about that.
• 21:01
  S4: And when you're, you know, just making conversation or just
• 21:04
  S4: sharing with somebody something that you've seen or you've read
• 21:07
  S4: or you've heard, and you don't have to get crazy.
• 21:09
  S4: And this is not a legalistic thing, but what is
• 21:12
  S4: what naturally kind of flows out of you the most? Yeah,
• 21:16
  S4: a lot of times that becomes a good indicator of
• 21:18
  S4: what's discipling you. It's the thing that you care a
• 21:21
  S4: lot about. It's the thing that you learn a lot
• 21:23
  S4: about that maybe you fixate on and you naturally talk
• 21:27
  S4: about it. And sometimes if we're honest with ourselves, I'll
• 21:30
  S4: personalize it. Sometimes, if I'm honest with myself, I go, man,
• 21:32
  S4: that doesn't feel like that important. Not as important as
• 21:36
  S4: the things of God.
• 21:38
  S2: You know? Another wrinkle to this, Ali, to kind of
• 21:41
  S2: play off what you just said is if you're discipled
• 21:44
  S2: by the wrong things, you can find yourself hopelessly discouraged
• 21:49
  S2: in a death loop of discouragement. So, and what I'm
• 21:52
  S2: meaning is this. And I've even had to check myself
• 21:55
  S2: on this. I've been very intrigued with what's going on
• 21:59
  S2: in Iran. And then I found out that the age
• 22:02
  S2: of consent for marriage in Iran in the last 40
• 22:05
  S2: plus years has moved from 18 down to nine years
• 22:08
  S2: of age. Now, it took me to a place where
• 22:13
  S2: I got so discouraged with that, and I had to
• 22:16
  S2: back up and go, okay, this is this is painful.
• 22:23
  S2: This is hard. My heart hurt for these little girls.
• 22:27
  S2: But there is a point at which you stay emotionally objective.
• 22:31
  S2: Not cold to that. I'm not cold to that reality.
• 22:35
  S2: But you stay emotionally objective to go okay. Rather than
• 22:38
  S2: getting in a sinkhole of discouragement over this, hold it.
• 22:41
  S2: My God is alive. I can shine brightly. I can
• 22:44
  S2: disciple people. I can train people in righteousness. As a pastor,
• 22:48
  S2: I can open the word. You see what I'm saying?
• 22:50
  S3: Oh, yeah.
• 22:51
  S2: I mean, it's amazing how this can take you different places.
• 22:54
  S4: Totally. And and the discouragement can be on the tip
• 22:58
  S4: of your tongue just as easily as the latest sports score.
• 23:01
  S3: Yes.
• 23:02
  S4: The thing you find yourself talking about is complaining or
• 23:05
  S4: saying all the things that are wrong in the world.
• 23:07
  S2: Yeah. You're right.
• 23:09
  S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.
• 23:12
  S5: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes.
• 23:15
  S5: So he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 23:17
  S5: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 23:19
  S5: the life that he has for me.
• 23:21
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 23:24
  S2: When you think discipleship, you think? Boy, that's a lot
• 23:28
  S2: of work. And I guess it is our guest right now,
• 23:32
  S2: Doctor David Nelms. I guess the comparative between gathering a
• 23:35
  S2: crowd and making disciples making disciples is it's it's more
• 23:40
  S2: intensive labor, isn't it, David?
• 23:43
  S8: Oh, yeah. It's intensive and it's intentional. You've got to
• 23:48
  S8: really be focused on it.
• 23:50
  S2: That's a good word. It's intensive and intentional. How does
• 23:53
  S2: that strike you, Ali, when you hear that?
• 23:55
  S4: I like that and I like a good play on
• 23:57
  S4: the iterations of that.
• 23:59
  S2: No, but it's powerful.
• 24:01
  S4: Doctor David Nelms with us this morning. He's founder of
• 24:03
  S4: the Timothy Initiative. So many of you have gotten behind
• 24:06
  S4: this effort when we partnered with them earlier this year.
• 24:09
  S4: So dig a little deeper on the difference between, as
• 24:11
  S4: Carl said, gathering a crowd and making disciples.
• 24:15
  S8: Yeah. Well, my experience as a pastor and I don't
• 24:18
  S8: want to point a finger at any other pastors, let
• 24:21
  S8: me just talk about me. My tendency was to make
• 24:26
  S8: members who listened to the Bible rather than making disciples
• 24:34
  S8: to obeyed the Bible. And there are two different things.
• 24:39
  S8: It's one thing to hear it, it's another thing. James
• 24:43
  S8: one said to put it into practice. And in fact,
• 24:46
  S8: James said, we're deceiving ourselves if all we're doing is
• 24:50
  S8: listening and not putting it into practice. We like to
• 24:55
  S8: talk about what's often called obedience based discipleship. I probably
• 25:00
  S8: would prefer to call it love based because Jesus said,
• 25:04
  S8: if you love me, you will obey me.
• 25:05
  S3: Yeah.
• 25:06
  S8: Sometimes when we hear the word obedience, we think legalism.
• 25:10
  S8: But I think we should think love. Because when you
• 25:14
  S8: love Jesus, you want to. You want to honor him.
• 25:16
  S8: You want to please him. And in the Great Commission there,
• 25:20
  S8: the first time it was given Matthew 2819 and 20,
• 25:24
  S8: Jesus told us to go, which is evangelism. Uh, to
• 25:29
  S8: baptize and then to teach our new believers to observe
• 25:35
  S8: or obey everything he had commanded. He did not say,
• 25:40
  S8: teach them everything I commanded. He said, teach them to
• 25:43
  S8: obey everything I commanded. And so the goal has got
• 25:48
  S8: to be not just hearing God's word. Obviously, you've got
• 25:51
  S8: to hear it to obey it. But but the goal
• 25:54
  S8: has got to be to actually get to the point
• 25:56
  S8: where you're obeying it and not just hearing it.
• 25:59
  S2: So this issue of obedience, getting tangled up with legalism,
• 26:04
  S2: that's real. I mean, David, you and I are old
• 26:06
  S2: enough that we were raised in 60s 70s. We know
• 26:11
  S2: what it feels like to have foisted on you. You've
• 26:14
  S2: got to go be a Christian. Oftentimes, though, that obedience
• 26:18
  S2: wasn't to the sweet teachings of Jesus and the scriptures.
• 26:24
  S2: It was almost being codified by certain behaviors that were
• 26:31
  S2: true to that church, or that denomination or that sect. How?
• 26:35
  S2: How do you delineate between a legalistic obedience and a
• 26:40
  S2: life thriving, God glorifying obedience?
• 26:44
  S8: To me, it all goes back to the inner motivations. Uh,
• 26:49
  S8: what what is motivating you? I, I am as if
• 26:53
  S8: I'm convinced of anything. It is this our problem is
• 26:57
  S8: not a failure to follow through on the Great Commission,
• 27:01
  S8: but rather our problem. My problem? Let me say it
• 27:04
  S8: again to point to me. My problem is the great commandment.
• 27:09
  S8: If I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart,
• 27:14
  S8: why would I not want to point others to him?
• 27:18
  S8: Why would I not want to obey him? It crosses
• 27:21
  S8: over from having to do it to you get to
• 27:25
  S8: do it. It's an honor. I mean, we're going to
• 27:28
  S8: spend all eternity at his feet worshiping him. And every
• 27:33
  S8: time we look up, we're going to see the nail
• 27:35
  S8: scars in his feet. And we're going to be reminded
• 27:39
  S8: of of his love for us. How can we not
• 27:42
  S8: love him when we realize he first loved us? So
• 27:45
  S8: I think it all goes back to the motivation. If
• 27:48
  S8: I love God, I want I want others to know
• 27:51
  S8: about him so they can give him glory. I want
• 27:53
  S8: to please him. If I love people, my goodness, why
• 27:57
  S8: would I not want to point them to Jesus Christ?
• 27:59
  S8: And once, once they're pointed to Christ, I want to
• 28:03
  S8: see them grow and get closer to him so they
• 28:06
  S8: can in turn reach others too. So I think it
• 28:08
  S8: all goes back to the the motivation of loving, God
• 28:11
  S8: loving people.
• 28:13
  S4: Doctor David Nelms with us this morning, founder of the
• 28:15
  S4: Timothy Initiative. You know, one of the things that we've
• 28:18
  S4: talked a little bit about before here about the Timothy
• 28:21
  S4: initiative is, you know, people as they are being discipled,
• 28:25
  S4: they're being trained to disciple others, which is a unique
• 28:29
  S4: approach because I think many people listening think about themselves, like,
• 28:32
  S4: have I been discipled but may not think about themselves
• 28:36
  S4: as a disciple, or they don't feel like they have
• 28:38
  S4: the qualifications, they have the training. They didn't go to
• 28:41
  S4: Bible school. Talk a little bit about your approach and
• 28:43
  S4: why far more people are positioned well to disciple others
• 28:48
  S4: than maybe they realize.
• 28:50
  S8: Yeah, well, I, I remember when it first dawned on
• 28:53
  S8: me there in Matthew 28, when Jesus gave that great
• 28:58
  S8: commission and later in Mark, Luke, John, and finally his
• 29:03
  S8: his departing words. Acts one eight when he said, you,
• 29:08
  S8: the Holy Spirit's going to come. He will make you
• 29:11
  S8: effective in your witnessing here near and far, literally to
• 29:15
  S8: the ends of the earth. He was not speaking to
• 29:18
  S8: Bible college graduates. He was not talking to seminary grads.
• 29:23
  S8: He was not talking to ordained pastors, for there were
• 29:26
  S8: none yet. This. This was acts one. The church was
• 29:31
  S8: birthed in acts two. He was talking to his followers.
• 29:36
  S8: The Great Commission was not given to religious professionals. It
• 29:41
  S8: was given to followers of Jesus Christ. If. If. If
• 29:47
  S8: you are a follower of Jesus Christ, just as the
• 29:51
  S8: great commandment applies to you, so does the Great Commission.
• 29:57
  S8: There's a saying that we use a lot in our ministry. Uh,
• 30:02
  S8: we didn't originate it. I don't know who originated it,
• 30:06
  S8: but it it goes like this. Every believer, a disciple,
• 30:11
  S8: every disciple, a disciple maker, every disciple makers home a
• 30:18
  S8: potential church, and every church a church planting center.
• 30:24
  S3: Wow.
• 30:25
  S8: But the. The key word in all of that is every.
• 30:28
  S8: The Great Commission was given from the one who has
• 30:32
  S8: all authority in heaven and earth. The Great Commission was
• 30:37
  S8: given to every follower of Jesus Christ.
• 30:41
  S2: You know, there's a question that people have, and we've
• 30:44
  S2: actually gotten this question texted to us a time or two.
• 30:47
  S2: And it all these they kind of revolve around this thought, okay, Carl,
• 30:52
  S2: I've got the gift of mercy. I've got the gift
• 30:54
  S2: of helps. I've got the gift of administration, by the way,
• 30:59
  S2: the vast majority of people listening right now don't know
• 31:01
  S2: what spiritual gifts they have, which indicates we are more
• 31:04
  S2: of a spectator Christianity than disciple oriented. But speak to
• 31:10
  S2: the unique gifting because I think people disqualify themselves from
• 31:15
  S2: discipleship because they don't see, even as Peter says, they
• 31:18
  S2: don't have a speaking gift. They've got a serving gift.
• 31:21
  S2: And he delineates that in First Peter four. How how
• 31:25
  S2: do you deal with that question?
• 31:27
  S8: Well, there is no doubt that God gives different gifts
• 31:32
  S8: and people are gifted in different ways. But for example,
• 31:36
  S8: in Romans, there's the gift of giving. But that does
• 31:40
  S8: not mean that only those with the gift of giving give. Okay? Yes.
• 31:45
  S8: And yes, there is the gift of, I think, serving.
• 31:48
  S8: But that does not mean that that that the rest
• 31:52
  S8: of us do not serve. It just simply means that
• 31:55
  S8: some of us are gifted specifically in that area. And
• 31:58
  S8: that's going to be an area that I think we
• 32:00
  S8: can really blossom in or shine and really advance the kingdom,
• 32:05
  S8: but it does not exclude us from other acts of service. And,
• 32:11
  S8: and when it comes to witnessing, sharing your story, sharing
• 32:15
  S8: God's story, which from my perspective, Carl and Ali, is
• 32:19
  S8: the first step of making disciples. It's it's they can't
• 32:24
  S8: grow until they've been born. They've got to be born again.
• 32:26
  S8: Somebody's got to share Christ with them. Yes, I think,
• 32:30
  S8: I think your gifting, you may get a little bit
• 32:33
  S8: more traction if you focus in that area, but it
• 32:36
  S8: doesn't mean that we don't ever open our mouths to
• 32:39
  S8: share Christ if we don't see ourselves as a as
• 32:42
  S8: a gifted evangelist, if you will.
• 32:45
  S4: Doctor David Nelms with us this morning from the Timothy Initiative.
• 32:48
  S4: Give us a fresh story that's on your heart as
• 32:50
  S4: you reflect on this topic, this this morning discipleship, this
• 32:55
  S4: angle of discipleship. Give us a story that comes to
• 32:57
  S4: mind of how you've seen this play out in the
• 32:59
  S4: context of global ministry.
• 33:02
  S8: Yeah. Well, you know, just this past weekend, I was
• 33:06
  S8: in a, I went to a city to speak and
• 33:10
  S8: had an Uber driver and it was about a 45
• 33:13
  S8: minute drive. So I thought, oh boy, this is going
• 33:16
  S8: to be good. And so I just, I just, uh, said, hey, uh,
• 33:20
  S8: I'll call him John. That's not his name. But I said, John,
• 33:23
  S8: tell me your story. And he started talking and my goodness,
• 33:27
  S8: what a life that guy's lived, uh, served our country
• 33:31
  S8: for many years overseas. And just, just, just a wonderful experience.
• 33:38
  S8: And then, uh, at some point I asked him, I said,
• 33:42
  S8: what about what about, uh, you've lived a great life,
• 33:45
  S8: but one day this life's going to come to an end.
• 33:48
  S8: I hope. No time soon, but it's going to come
• 33:49
  S8: to an end. What next? Uh, are you ready for eternity?
• 33:54
  S8: And he had been delving into Islam a little bit
• 33:58
  S8: and some other stuff. But long story short, as we
• 34:02
  S8: got where I was going, sitting there in the driveway,
• 34:05
  S8: he bowed his head with me, and he prayed to
• 34:09
  S8: ask Jesus to be his Savior. Now. Now that's that's
• 34:13
  S8: the going part. Okay. And I was so happy for him.
• 34:17
  S8: I gave him a big hug. But later that day,
• 34:20
  S8: I texted him and I said, because I gave him
• 34:23
  S8: my number. I said, I want to help you find
• 34:25
  S8: a church. And I texted him later that day. I
• 34:28
  S8: found him a church in his area because, you know,
• 34:31
  S8: you it's not just lead them to Christ, but it's
• 34:34
  S8: they've got to grow. And that local church is critical
• 34:37
  S8: to your growth. But I texted him, I said, I'm
• 34:40
  S8: leaving in two days. Going back to the airport. I said, uh,
• 34:45
  S8: by any chance, could I line you up? And he,
• 34:48
  S8: he immediately responded and said, yes, I'll do it. And,
• 34:52
  S8: and so I now had a 35 minute journey to.
• 34:55
  S8: I said, the reason I want you to drive me
• 34:57
  S8: is I want to talk to you about how to
• 34:59
  S8: grow in the Lord now. And so we spent 30,
• 35:02
  S8: 35 minutes just kind of like the first, uh, Bible
• 35:06
  S8: study lesson, if you will. And he's been texting me
• 35:09
  S8: back and forth. That was this past Sunday, Saturday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
• 35:13
  S8: and Sunday of this past week. So you know that
• 35:17
  S8: going is literally, I think you guys know as you go,
• 35:19
  S8: as you go, where as you go everywhere. It's where
• 35:22
  S8: you live, work, study, shop, play. Always be looking for
• 35:27
  S8: someone to talk to about Jesus.
• 35:29
  S2: Amen. David Nelms, our guest right now, he is the
• 35:32
  S2: founder of TTI. And I'd love for you to get
• 35:34
  S2: more acquainted with this incredible ministry. Text the word disciple
• 35:38
  S2: to 805 557898. They are doing something unique and solidly biblical.
• 35:47
  S2: They're actually following the Word of God. Text disciple to
• 35:50
  S2: 805 557898.
• 35:54
  S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the cast and
• 35:57
  S1: crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 35:59
  S2: Well, I gotta tell you, man, it's not often you've
• 36:02
  S2: got a guy that comes in whose middle name is
• 36:05
  S2: guns blazing, but we've got him now.
• 36:08
  S4: Oh, Carl.
• 36:09
  S2: Pastor Leonard, guns blazing tanks. You got a last name
• 36:12
  S2: like tanks. You got to have a middle name like artillery,
• 36:15
  S2: guns blazing. And this is no joking. This man has
• 36:18
  S2: been radically transformed by Jesus. Pastor tanks. Good morning, my man.
• 36:22
  S2: How are you?
• 36:23
  S9: Hey. Good morning. How are you doing? I'm doing great.
• 36:25
  S9: How are you doing? Ali and Carl. Good to see
• 36:26
  S9: you guys. Or at least be here with you guys.
• 36:28
  S3: Yeah.
• 36:29
  S2: It's great. Great to have you in here. He hails
• 36:31
  S2: from Cleveland, Ohio. But let's get your story. We love
• 36:35
  S2: life change stories, don't we, Ali?
• 36:37
  S4: Oh we do. Go ahead. Tell us how God got
• 36:40
  S4: a hold of your heart.
• 36:41
  S9: Oh, yeah? Well, in short form, I had three felonies
• 36:44
  S9: before I was 16 years old, in and out of jail.
• 36:47
  S9: Everything from assault to drugs, selling drugs. And that kind
• 36:52
  S9: of carried over into my adult years in and out
• 36:54
  S9: of jail. Just a bunch of little petty crimes and
• 36:56
  S9: petty misdemeanor things. But eventually I found myself facing five
• 37:00
  S9: years for kidnapping and assault. And it was during that time,
• 37:03
  S9: while we were waiting on trial for 42 days, that
• 37:06
  S9: a guy named Tom Walsh gave me a Bible and
• 37:09
  S9: I didn't have nothing else to do. So I started
• 37:10
  S9: reading it. And as I started reading it, man, I
• 37:12
  S9: just really started seeing some bad stuff about, you know,
• 37:15
  S9: guys taking advantage of women and going into their house. And,
• 37:18
  S9: you know, prostitution was one of the ways that I
• 37:20
  S9: made money. And so I was like super convicted and
• 37:23
  S9: being like, well, wait a minute, what else is bad
• 37:25
  S9: that I do? And as I kept reading the word,
• 37:28
  S9: I kept finding how bad I was. And so one
• 37:30
  S9: day I made a deal with God that if he
• 37:32
  S9: got me out of jail, I serve him the rest
• 37:34
  S9: of my life. Two weeks later, we went to trial
• 37:36
  S9: and the video evidence got damaged in police custody, so
• 37:39
  S9: they had to drop all major charges. And I was
• 37:41
  S9: only convicted of a misdemeanor that was 30 days in jail.
• 37:44
  S9: And I had already been waiting 42. So I got
• 37:46
  S9: out of jail that day miraculously, and, um, started going
• 37:49
  S9: to church. And, uh, yeah, just started to get discipled
• 37:52
  S9: and really surrendered my life to the Lord and see
• 37:54
  S9: him change me.
• 37:55
  S2: A lot of those guys like me, I mean, I had,
• 37:59
  S2: I don't, I don't even know if I told you this.
• 38:00
  S2: I had eight ounces of Coke busted by the feds
• 38:03
  S2: at Anchorage International Airport. And I did the same thing.
• 38:05
  S2: I said, God, you get me out of this one.
• 38:07
  S2: I promise I'm gonna give my life to you. There
• 38:09
  S2: was a gap between my promise and and God calling
• 38:13
  S2: me out of darkness and me seeing I needed a savior.
• 38:16
  S2: I am my biggest problem. What was that delay from
• 38:20
  S2: you doing the foxhole prison prayer to really being regenerated
• 38:24
  S2: by the spirit?
• 38:25
  S9: Two people, man. A guy named Calvin Dorsey, who was
• 38:28
  S9: a disciple of mine, and then Reverend Cliff Watson, who
• 38:31
  S9: was the assistant pastor at Providence Baptist Church at that time. Um, man,
• 38:35
  S9: he grabbed hold of me from seeing me in church,
• 38:37
  S9: and they just really started to walk with me in discipleship.
• 38:40
  S9: Really started. Yeah. Just started meeting with me, talking to me,
• 38:43
  S9: convicting me, challenging me. And that's when that kind of
• 38:46
  S9: deal became just really, uh, transformative in my life.
• 38:50
  S4: Pastor Leonard tanks with us. He's the pastor and church
• 38:53
  S4: planter of Reach City Church in the Cleveland, Ohio area.
• 38:56
  S4: What did discipleship look like practically? You mentioned a peer
• 38:59
  S4: discipler and then also an assistant pastor. Was it a
• 39:03
  S4: program or a book that they walked you through. Was
• 39:06
  S4: it something more than that? Give us as much as
• 39:09
  S4: you can remember of that kind of day to day,
• 39:11
  S4: week to week discipleship?
• 39:13
  S9: Yeah. It wasn't a curriculum or anything. It was really
• 39:16
  S9: just relational and life on life. So the assistant pastor,
• 39:19
  S9: Cliff Watson, he became kind of my primary discipler. And yeah, man,
• 39:23
  S9: every day I was, I basically every day I was
• 39:25
  S9: at his house, I wasn't allowed to drive and things
• 39:27
  S9: like that because he convicted me of driving without a license.
• 39:29
  S9: So I told him, well, if I can't drive, you
• 39:31
  S9: got to pick me up. And so that's what he did.
• 39:34
  S9: He would pick me up. I literally was at his house,
• 39:36
  S9: at his dinner table. We would talk practical things. Uh,
• 39:39
  S9: he was working on his basement, so he was teaching
• 39:41
  S9: me construction. As we went along, he would take me
• 39:44
  S9: on ministry assignments. He was on like, I literally just
• 39:46
  S9: really spent every day with him and like literally every day.
• 39:50
  S9: And then my peer discipler, he would pick me up
• 39:52
  S9: and get me around other young adults that was on
• 39:54
  S9: fire for the Lord. And so he would get me
• 39:56
  S9: connected to people my age who was really trying to
• 39:58
  S9: walk this walk out. Yeah. So it was just a
• 40:00
  S9: lot of conversations, a lot of life on life, a
• 40:02
  S9: lot of practical. This is what I'm dealing with. What
• 40:05
  S9: should I do here? Um, a lot of Bible reading questions.
• 40:09
  S9: Parenting questions. He would see me in my raw form.
• 40:12
  S9: And you know, I real quick story. I just remember
• 40:14
  S9: the first time I wanted to be violent again. Somebody
• 40:17
  S9: had stole something from me. I found out who it
• 40:19
  S9: was when I was at his house. I got the
• 40:21
  S9: call and I was like, I'm on my way. And
• 40:23
  S9: he stood in front of the door and was like,
• 40:24
  S9: you're not leaving here. I remember being in tears, like,
• 40:27
  S9: get out of my way. And he was like, no.
• 40:29
  S9: So like, it was like that type of practical stop
• 40:31
  S9: type things that I dealt with a lot with him
• 40:33
  S9: for sure.
• 40:34
  S2: You know, pastor tanks, I love you. First off, man,
• 40:38
  S2: it's such a joy. It's so refreshing to have you
• 40:40
  S2: on here. There's a problem that we have in the
• 40:44
  S2: church today. And it's not that we have churches filled
• 40:48
  S2: or half filled with people that are at varying degrees
• 40:51
  S2: of some are lost and don't know it, some are
• 40:54
  S2: very saved. But we've got to get to the point
• 40:57
  S2: where people are connecting with people. Are there any shortcuts
• 41:02
  S2: for discipleship other than getting person on, person experiencing the
• 41:07
  S2: Word of God bringing conviction as we read and apply
• 41:10
  S2: the word? I feel like we're trying to take shortcuts,
• 41:13
  S2: but there aren't any. What do you say, pastor?
• 41:16
  S9: Yeah, no, I think according to God's plan. No, there
• 41:19
  S9: really isn't any shortcuts. I think that like anything, if
• 41:23
  S9: you have a person that is committed to their own growth,
• 41:26
  S9: they could potentially start to see some growth without discipleship.
• 41:30
  S9: But I always liken it to I can learn how
• 41:32
  S9: to ride a bike on my own and make it
• 41:34
  S9: down the end of the street, for sure. But I
• 41:36
  S9: got broken bones, black eyes glued to the end of
• 41:40
  S9: the street. Sure enough, right?
• 41:41
  S3: Um.
• 41:42
  S9: Or parent? They're holding the back of the seat or
• 41:45
  S9: the handlebars, making sure that I don't fall while I
• 41:48
  S9: work on learning how to steer or learning how to pedal.
• 41:50
  S9: And so I always say discipleship gives people speed and
• 41:54
  S9: it protects them. And I think that's kind of what
• 41:56
  S9: God's plan is, is that he wants us to make disciples.
• 41:58
  S9: He wants us to walk alongside of people. He wants
• 42:01
  S9: us to rub elbows with people, almost not in a
• 42:04
  S9: positional shepherding way, but in a functional shepherding way where
• 42:07
  S9: she needs shepherds. They need somebody to guide, lead, feed,
• 42:10
  S9: take them to the know. The path to take a
• 42:12
  S9: person on that will be a safe journey to get
• 42:14
  S9: them to the destination. And so, I mean, I think
• 42:17
  S9: you do see people trying to figure it out on
• 42:19
  S9: their own. And I think they're learning. Yes. But at
• 42:22
  S9: the same time, I think that God wants us to
• 42:24
  S9: make disciples and have somebody journey with you who've traveled
• 42:27
  S9: that path because they can get you there quicker, they
• 42:29
  S9: can get you there safely, and they can essentially what
• 42:31
  S9: I call give you speed. And what I mean by
• 42:33
  S9: that really quick is I got saved in February 26th, 2010.
• 42:38
  S9: I was ordained as a pastor in 2016, planting the
• 42:41
  S9: church in 2019. So I had speed because I had
• 42:45
  S9: intentional discipleship in my life that really helped me grow
• 42:49
  S9: and see that transformative work in my life a lot
• 42:52
  S9: quicker than if I would have did it myself.
• 42:53
  S4: Oh, I love that. I haven't heard it put like that.
• 42:56
  S4: That the discipleship gives you speed in the sense that
• 42:58
  S4: it allows you to move so much faster on this
• 43:02
  S4: journey than if you were doing it alone. Pastor, how
• 43:05
  S4: quickly did you start to see yourself as a discipler,
• 43:08
  S4: as you're taking in so much from these gentlemen who
• 43:11
  S4: were walking with you? Once, the first time that somebody
• 43:14
  S4: came alongside you and said, hey, can I follow you?
• 43:17
  S4: So as you're being led, when did that happen?
• 43:21
  S9: A year and a half into my walk, a guy
• 43:23
  S9: named Ronald came around the church and he was we
• 43:26
  S9: were he was a little younger than me, and I
• 43:28
  S9: was doing furniture repair. So I used to travel around Ohio,
• 43:31
  S9: having to go to the different errands and rental centers
• 43:33
  S9: and do repairs of their furniture. And he didn't have
• 43:36
  S9: a job, and he said he wanted to learn more
• 43:37
  S9: about Jesus. So I literally did exactly what Cliff was
• 43:40
  S9: doing with me. I said, hey, man, you can ride
• 43:42
  S9: around with me all day, man. I'll pay you out
• 43:44
  S9: of my pocket. You just go around with me and
• 43:45
  S9: we'll just do life together. And so he was the
• 43:48
  S9: first person a year and half in my walk that
• 43:49
  S9: I started to disciple. And obviously I didn't have all
• 43:52
  S9: of the wisdom and knowledge. That's why I still had
• 43:54
  S9: Cliff right there with me. So he's kind of like
• 43:56
  S9: how Calvin was my peer discipler. I was his peer discipler.
• 43:59
  S9: But we both had Cliff to kind of clean up
• 44:01
  S9: anything that I got wrong and show him what it
• 44:03
  S9: means to be young, trying to live for Christ. And
• 44:05
  S9: so it wasn't long. It didn't take a 16 year
• 44:08
  S9: journey or seven. It was like as it was done
• 44:11
  S9: for me, I said, well, I don't know what to do,
• 44:12
  S9: but I'm just going to do what was done for
• 44:14
  S9: me to you.
• 44:15
  S2: This is so.
• 44:16
  S3: Good.
• 44:16
  S4: It's amazing.
• 44:17
  S2: I think a couple of things here that are eye popping.
• 44:19
  S2: One is, and I think we should be unapologetic. The
• 44:21
  S2: early church had speed in their discipleship alley.
• 44:25
  S3: I mean, they went.
• 44:27
  S2: You know, the growth strategy wasn't a 20 year plan. Uh,
• 44:31
  S2: there's a lot of people listening right now, pastor tanks.
• 44:34
  S2: They have one thing that's holding up everything. And it
• 44:38
  S2: is like the domino that is seems it won't drop
• 44:42
  S2: and it's an addiction. It's a sin of commission or
• 44:45
  S2: a sin of omission, something they're doing that they don't
• 44:47
  S2: want to do. It's like Paul's prayer, oh man, help
• 44:50
  S2: me God or something. They're not doing that. They know
• 44:53
  S2: God has shown them they need to be doing. What
• 44:56
  S2: do you say to that person? That's got one thing
• 44:58
  S2: that's absolutely kicking their tail and really robbing them of
• 45:01
  S2: the abundant life.
• 45:03
  S9: I mean, so many things I would say. I think
• 45:05
  S9: if I had to say one and one and a
• 45:07
  S9: half things one, I would just say that, man, your
• 45:10
  S9: growth is on the other end of your surrender. And
• 45:13
  S9: whatever you desire to be, it's going to require you
• 45:16
  S9: to surrender something. You think about what Jesus says, that
• 45:19
  S9: how could a lesser seed falls to the ground and dies?
• 45:22
  S9: It won't grow. And so unless you die to something
• 45:26
  S9: and are willing to let go of whatever that thing is,
• 45:29
  S9: and not just the stuff that you want to let
• 45:30
  S9: go of, right? Because sometimes we, we want to celebrate
• 45:32
  S9: the stuff we're doing well, but we know all along
• 45:35
  S9: God is actually calling us to this one area surrender.
• 45:38
  S9: We won't do, but we focus on the stuff we
• 45:39
  S9: are doing. And it's not until you do that surrender
• 45:43
  S9: that you'll be able to get to the places that
• 45:44
  S9: God really wants you to get to. And then for
• 45:46
  S9: the person who's like, doesn't even know what that one
• 45:49
  S9: thing is, I'm always convicted of like a Psalms 94
• 45:53
  S9: or a Psalm 26 where it says, in the presence
• 45:57
  S9: of God you reveal my hidden faults. And so I
• 46:00
  S9: always tell people, we learn the presence of God is
• 46:04
  S9: like a mirror in our life. And the more that
• 46:05
  S9: we are intentional to spend time with him, his light
• 46:09
  S9: begins to reveal the dark spots in our life. And
• 46:11
  S9: if you get into his presence, he will start to
• 46:14
  S9: let you know that thing that he's saying. I want
• 46:17
  S9: that from you. And in that will be a lot
• 46:19
  S9: of growth on the other side of it. And so
• 46:21
  S9: spend more time with the Lord, and you will begin
• 46:23
  S9: to see yourself in light of him and start to
• 46:25
  S9: be able to identify those hidden faults that he wants
• 46:27
  S9: to prune out of you.
• 46:28
  S4: Leonard. Thanks. From Reach City Church, we want to give
• 46:32
  S4: you a key word so you can find out more
• 46:34
  S4: about this great ministry. Just text reach to 805 557898,
• 46:40
  S4: reach to 805 557898. Pastor, before we let you go,
• 46:45
  S4: give us a word. You had your first disciple making
• 46:48
  S4: boot camp. I don't know if another one is planned,
• 46:50
  S4: so I don't want to promise something that's not in
• 46:52
  S4: the works yet. But tell us how the first one went.
• 46:54
  S9: It was great, man. We did a year long training
• 46:57
  S9: of taking churches and learning how to take churches through
• 46:59
  S9: how to build disciple making cultures in general. And then
• 47:02
  S9: we launched these disciple making boot camps in our city.
• 47:05
  S9: And it was great, man. We had about 60 some
• 47:06
  S9: people attend and they learned a lot of different tools.
• 47:09
  S9: And I got people that are now making disciples. I
• 47:12
  S9: got people who at least committed to discipleship. And yeah,
• 47:15
  S9: it was just giving people practical tools. And our plan
• 47:17
  S9: is to do one every quarter. So there is another
• 47:19
  S9: one coming up in the summer. And then I just
• 47:21
  S9: created another, more practical Pre-conversion evangelism type boot camp on
• 47:25
  S9: how to begin to engage your family and friends over
• 47:28
  S9: time to see them come to the Lord. So no,
• 47:30
  S9: it's really good. It's just my heart and passion that
• 47:32
  S9: whatever God has given me, if I can try to
• 47:34
  S9: help somebody in some capacity, figure out how to make
• 47:36
  S9: disciples or be more equipped for it, and I'm always
• 47:39
  S9: trying to do that.
• 47:40
  S2: Love it. Oh my goodness, pastor. Thanks. All right. What's
• 47:43
  S2: key word again ally.
• 47:44
  S4: Yes. Just text reach to 805 557898. Reach to 805 557898.