Latest / The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell / #6 - The Greatest Gift Is Vulnerability With Madison Mckay

Transcript

#6 - The Greatest Gift Is Vulnerability With Madison Mckay · The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: What's up y'all?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Seeking Authenticity.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Flint Mitchell, and I get absolutely psyched by having conversations with authentic people that I admire about the things they value.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Their stories and perspectives don't just make me smile, laugh, and think.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: They inspire me to wake up earlier, listen better, focus and work harder, and help make me a better version of myself.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's my hope that sharing these conversations through this podcast might do the same thing for you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, I talk with Madison McKay, a good friend of mine from college.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Being completely honest, I don't think you could find a person who, in conversation with Madison, wouldn't feel like she truly means well.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the reasons I have always tried to keep in contact with her.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's a kind soul who wants to invest in and help the people around her.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of energy is contagious.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Growing up in Texas, she dedicated the majority of her spare time out of school to dancing, a passion which she followed into college.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Through the years of practice and performances, she found dance not only to be an avenue for joy, but also one that shaped her perspective on connecting with others.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: By genuinely expressing herself, either on stage or in her personal relationships, she has found that she can form more trustworthy bonds.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: In this conversation, we talk about the intense training required to dance in college, the benefit of interacting with people out of your normal groups, the fulfillment that follows after exhausting effort, and both the great joys and frustrations that come from honestly trusting others.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had a great time listening to Madison, as I always do, and I know you will too.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Probably the biggest part of it, it's like, I see you.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I see what you're trying to say, and like I like what you're saying.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to look back on this time and feel like I've given it everything I could have.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hope that and the encouragement that at some point it will get back to that two-sided friendship.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Your heart always has room to grow.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Your heart always has room to get bigger.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for doing this with me, Madison.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um really psyched to have you on.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a lot of wonderful discussions over the past couple years, ranging from everything from college courses to work to relationships to becoming independent out of college and kind of everything in between.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And from those experiences, you become a friend that I'm really grateful to have in my life.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, one of the things I like so much about you is your ability, it's this ability that I think a lot of people lose over time, or maybe never had in the first place, which is to have a mature outlook on life and responsibilities, yet still be incredibly bubbly and fun, kind of in the present moment.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that youthful enthusiasm is something that I haven't seen and don't expect to fade from you at any time, like that ability to kind of live in the present while still having a better like a balance of responsibility in your life.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I really like that.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was thinking about that before this, I was wondering if that had anything to do with your history of dance.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about your your journey with dancing and how you started and how it's kind of become a big part of your life.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, that's all really sweet of you to say.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like a dear friend to me, and I treasure you and our conversations um as well.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, with dance, I think dance is a really, I think in a lot of ways it's really underrated and like underappreciated.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think you can see that just from like the monetary side of things, of how you can see how things are valued in that way.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think in the current climate too, and and not to say that everybody undervalues dance, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just mean in the general public sphere, there's I mean, you see it with all of the valet companies now where they've had to let go all of these amazing principal dancers because they can't afford to pay them.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and this happened in March, like right when COVID hit.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And was it because of COVID?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they were just they were able to forecast, you know, the economic downturn.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you think of, you know, all of the um performances that these dancers do in like Lincoln Center and all over the world, right?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm really just talking about the US right now.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um you think of all of them, all of these people gathering and ticket sales are a huge portion, donors um, you know, fueling money into the arts, like that's how those companies stay afloat, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then not to mention all the purchases that they make with sets and renting out the theater and costuming and everything, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm talking about this on a much larger scale, but I I think like there's not a whole lot of conversation around dance, I don't think.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's fun for me to talk about it because it is so important to me.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I when I so okay, so I've been dancing since I was like three years old.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think like everybody, every girl on the face of the earth, like was in ballet when they were three years old, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so um to do the cute little dances and it's fun.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think through that, you know, some people are like, okay, this is not for me.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then some people kind of continue through it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I just happened to like love it and continue through it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And in middle school, kind of had to make the choice between going the athletic route of playing like soccer or doing track, which were two things I really liked, um, or pursuing dance further.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I decided to pursue dance like in eighth grade, like seriously.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know why you did that?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because yes, I do.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I really liked running track and I really liked playing soccer.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say I'm naturally, I'm just I've always been really competitive when it comes to that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the workplace, not so much.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it with my friendships, I'm not competitive.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to like an activity, like I'm gonna kick some ass if we're playing Scrabble.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm ready to go and I don't like losing, and I have to work on that within myself.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, that's a personal, personal tidbit.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But um with dance, it's one of those things that you you can never be the best at dance, and you can never be the best at anything, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so from the competitive side of me, I think that it fueled something different than running track did or playing soccer did.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but the biggest part of it is that dance gives you the ability to express what you're feeling in a very different way.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's this thing where you you really do have to be an athlete to be, you know, a strong dancer.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be athletic and um you have to also be really in touch with what's going on here.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I think in every sport you have you make friends who are people who are on your team, but the thing with dance is like it's not really a team, it's not a team sport.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so you enjoy the personal competition, like the competition with yourself.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's what yes.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the people around you make you better, and I think that applies to everything.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what's with dance, it's like, okay, there's so many different things you can do.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So ranging from ballet to tap to contemporary work to whatever.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of this endless, like I don't know, it's just very endless in what you can be good at.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas um what I felt with track is like, okay, well, I am 5'2 and I'm not, I'm done growing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't have these long legs to compete.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so the things that I'm going to be pigeonholed into doing, and this is what my coaches told me, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were was the 300-meter hurdles, and that's it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I could jump and I was not, and and I think that came from dance, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was just something that was very always really natural to me.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I could I could do the hurdles, but I had enough stamina, like I couldn't do the 100-meter hurdles because it's too short, but I had the stamina to get the 300.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was the only thing I was gonna be able to do.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, you know, and no matter how fast you are, like if if you're 5'2 and you're racing against somebody who's five eight, which I race against seven people who are five eight, like at the Texas State Finals, whatever, I it was like there's only so much I can do there, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's you know, so anyway, I think it was it's partially that too, where I didn't feel like I was ever gonna be pigeonholed with dance.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think even carrying that into college, and I can get to that in a second, like it was very important to me that I was gonna have the ability to make choices.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with that, like, so competitive-wise, you you can kind of be good endlessly, like you can work hard endlessly.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't stop.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so you look around the room, you start with for ballet, for example, you start with bar.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got pllies, tendus, degages, rendezvous, like you've got this whole sequence of things, and the combination changes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: What are those, what do those words mean?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so basically think of them as like warm-up exercises.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you're at the bar.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're like techniques.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 10:29
  unknown: Okay.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the bar is where you work on your technique.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're warm-up exercises to get you ready for center work.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the point with that is like the whole time you're working your tail off because you've got people all around you.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're trying to make every little thing that you're doing absolutely perfect.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everything.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds intense.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not, and so it's just very, very intentional work too.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it in like every combination, they give it to you really fast.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, okay, you're gonna go front, side, front, side, back, side, front, you know, balance, balance, balance, turn around, other side.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like you just go really fast.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so it sounds really intense.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like I I appreciated that intensity too.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was very natural to me to like it was really natural to me to take things really seriously at that time.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was really passionate about it because then you get you get to move the whole time.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're moving, you're expressing yourself, you know, to dancers.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You could, I mean, it's kind of subjective too, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like once you've got the technique down, you may see somebody that you absolutely love watching and they're your favorite person to watch ever.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then the person next to you could be completely entranced in what the person next to that person is doing.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it speaks to people differently.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, it totally makes sense.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh, it's kind of like I mean, genres of books, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Some people like fiction, some people don't.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you enjoyed the kind of ability to the personal responsibility, the personal competition of getting better.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very much like I'm can I'm learning, and I I got to a point because in high school it was when I really started dancing, well, eighth grade, ninth grade.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I started dancing with a pre-professional company.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um a pre-professional?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't a professional company, but it was like basically kind of a feeder.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we were dancing 30 to 40 hours every week.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing shows um throughout the year, doing competitions.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: 18 at this time?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, younger, because I was I started really taking it seriously in eighth grade, so I would have been 13.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jeez.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I did it for a long time and I took it really seriously.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I made great friends.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then once you get the technique down, it really does become this thing where you get to express yourself and be vulnerable.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to dance at like different summer intensives, which a ton of people do.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like basically you, it's like summer camp.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You get to go and travel and then you dance all day, and then at the end of six weeks or eight weeks or whatever, you do a performance.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's kind of that point too where you get to come back and like you end up being way better than you were when you left because it's even more intense because instead of being in like high school for you know eight hours and then going to class, you're literally dancing the whole time.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And practicing practice makes you better.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So practicing like that, man, that's great.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I went to when I was in San Francisco, you remember this.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was doing, I was, I I took a class with Alonzo King, who is the founder of Lines and he's amazing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um the I I have, I was looking through my notes on my phone the other day, and I found some great quotes from you.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And like I, you know, I've written down a bunch of like quotes that my favorite people have said, and one thing that I was I found this whole list of notes from him, and the thing that he said that resonated with me the most was the greatest gift you can give is vulnerability.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's really cool.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the fact that it means I mean, what does it mean to you?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: If I say if somebody is vulnerable with you, it's a gift that they're giving you, maybe.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why do you think like why would you think that is?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that statement resonates with people differently.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I see that as saying I'm giving you my like what I really think.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm trusting you with it too, where it's like not only am I saying, not only am I saying what I'm giving like what I'm thinking to you, I'm trusting you with that to have either a conversation with me or to see it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it resonated with me in that moment because in that was when I was a rising junior in college, and my sophomore year was really fun.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had a great time, but I also like kind of struggled with some eating order adjacent issues, um, which I think a lot of dancers, if not all of them, deal with some degree of that, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, because you're constantly on a pedestal, yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and you're looking at yourself in a mirror and people are poking you, which they should because they're helping you get better, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Preventing injuries, whatever.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all about it.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I mean I can't tell you the number of times that people were like, you need to eat a salad for dinner or whatever, because somebody's gonna be pushing you over their head.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know what?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Fair, but still kind of hurts.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like that kind of still hurts my feelings.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so um when I went to Lines, it was kind of a turning point for me too, because I kind of feel like I defeated that issue, and um it was a really vulnerable time for me where I was like working my ass off, literally, trying to come back in better shape and um, you know, ready to kind of pursue this even further, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like my junior senior year.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: So when you came back junior year, you were in good shape and feeling pretty good about yourself.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I also cut bangs, which like don't get bangs.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but I did, I felt so much better.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think during that time when he said that, it resonated with me even further because I was like, there's a lot that I'm being vulnerable with right now.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like at some point, I hope that I can have this conversation with someone and go, like, I understand what you're going through.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I understand what you're struggling with, and like it's even being vulnerable in that way.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what was cool is I was able to use my body to be vulnerable and like move and express myself um and like touch people in that way, which was really cool.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: But like the thing is, is you get to be inspired by people all the time when you're dancing.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you get to look around the room, and I think my perspective shifted a little bit when I was in high school because I was like, wait, I actually get to learn from the people around me.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not only am I learning from my teacher, but I'm also watching these other athletes in the room and seeing how they're doing things and be inspired by that rather than be competitive with that, if that makes sense.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that was a whole tangent.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, and it's it's an interesting tangent though, kind of this idea of expressing yourself with your body, which at least in American culture, I see the relationship between people or like in the physical sense as more of like a show.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh people create an image of themselves and then show it to other people, but they don't necessarily express themselves with it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's I mean, do you mean like social media in general?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you mean just like in line?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, I don't consider dancing.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like a fun thing to do for people, but I wouldn't consider it a very prominent aspect of our culture.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I was saying earlier.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're exactly right.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I remember coming to SMU and people are like, oh, what's your major?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, you know, I'm doing dance and I'm doing marketing.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: People were like, wait, you're a dancer?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I've literally never had that response before.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's crazy that you think that that's like a really cool thing.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you're, wait, you're gonna come to my show?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're interested in that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being so shocked by that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you're right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's kind of what I was saying earlier, where I don't think it's and maybe it's highly valued.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can measure value in a lot of ways, and maybe it's highly valued in some ways and not in others.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's valued, and I think people go, oh wow, that takes a lot of skill to get to this point where you're dancing with a huge company and um or you're dancing on Broadway or whatever your path is, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think that I think sometimes you can measure how a population values something by the monetary contribution.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So like, you know, so like the NFL, everybody, I mean, like I love watching football.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love Super Bowl Sunday, I love like getting to watch.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've always grown up watching football with my family on Sundays and college football on Saturdays, and those programs, rightfully so, have a huge amount of money funneled into them.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the dance program at SMU is like there's not a whole lot of money there.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know what I mean?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would have thought it would have a ton because they were so proud of it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's but I understand in a sense, it's like this big circle, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Where, well, there's not a lot of money being funneled into it because there's not a lot of money coming out of it.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: We put a lot of money on our football team.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But people are buying tickets, they're buying season passes, they're buying concessions, like all of those things, you know, whatever.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I got you.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're going into junior year, senior year, and you're what do you have any specific stories from those two years that make you like that stick out in your mind that you're really stoked about or really proud of from dance?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, I will say I think college made me a much more well-rounded person.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that does it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that college does that for more people where you're more open-minded, you're more willing to learn.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and in in my why, like, why did that happen to you though?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think just being exposed to people who are the only common ground that you have for the most part with people that you go to college with, like that initial common ground is we all chose this school to go to for a lot of different reasons.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, you get to be involved.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I I made it a point because in college I was only involved in dance.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, in high school, I was only involved in dance.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: That was like literally my life.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was dancing 40 hours a week.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was super.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Important to me.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I made it a point in college where I remember applying and I was like, I want to go to a school where I can like go watch football.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not that our team was any good, but like I was like, I want to go to a football school and I also really want to double major.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's really important to me.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I I went to OU, which is a pretty strong dance school, a very strong dance school.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I went to TCU, I went to SMU and I went to UT and kind of started polling.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had I sat down with the department chairs and had conversations with them.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And SMU was the only school that would not only let me double major, because the dance department was kind of gonna be the one to dictate that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: At UT, there was no way I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna double major at that time.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is now.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: At OU, I wasn't gonna double major.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at TCU, I wasn't gonna double major.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So SMU was the only one with that was like, no, we want you to have a well-rounded education.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to be a business major, like we can make we can work with you on that.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So not only was I in meadows with like theater and music and dance and advertising and journalism, like all of those, you know, things, I was not only in that umbrella exposed to like that world, but I also was I would run over to Cox in my literal leotard to make it in five minutes to my next class.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then I would go into like my finance class or my marketing, you know, capstone or whatever it was.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was a really interesting, I think it just opened, I mean, the more you learn, the goal is learning about other people's experiences, about I don't know, and I think you're really good at that, like asking people about their experiences.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, even academically learning any of that, all of that is supposed to open your mind.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: For some people, I think they use that to justify a stance.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, I think that the point of learning and talking to people and trying to be emotionally intelligent and all of that actually helps to open you up, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got exposure to that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then I ended up working in the like admissions office.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like meeting students from all over the country and working with like other people who I wouldn't have met because they were engineers or they were um, you know, whatever, like working with other people of other class levels and other entry points to SMU, whether they transferred or whatever.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking with all of them and getting to know them and learning more.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, well, I'm gonna join a sorority.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I joined a, you know, Kayo and got to know all these other girls.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's it just I feel like I was lucky in that I made a decision to go there because I wanted a well-rounded experience, and I feel like I got it, you know.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, how did we get there?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I actually uh interrupted you after I asked another question, which was and this is something I I did want to get back to, and maybe taking on what you just said, was so you had this experience where you were double majoring and you were getting to be exposed to new types of people and new types of uh thought processes while you were at the same time, because like junior year, senior year, you're getting far more specialized in your studies, you're getting to do more work as far as you know, you're you're less learning about theory and more learning about practice and whatever you're studying.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would imagine in business that's probably starting to create models and stuff like that, and predictions for for companies or stocks or whatever it is.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: But so you're at this place junior senior year where you are learning from a lot of different people, your mind is kind of being open, and at the same time, you feel like you're at the best, you're maybe at your peak as far as far as athletic ability and dance.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: What story or experience maybe shows how those two came together for you as a person?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um good question.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of really fond memories of dancing my junior and senior year.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of fond memories of that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I had come back and was in a much healthier like mental state and physical state, like those two always align, I think.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um I got I was starting to get cast more in different performances.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, we had guest artists coming in, and I felt like they wanted to put me in their pieces, and that was always really cool.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it didn't happen every time, right?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, I remember a couple of instances where I was like, oh wow, this is this is really cool.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think the thing that kind of tied a bow on it was at the very end of senior year, and we had on the dance side, I was in um let's see, we had brown bag, which you know, so that's like a student-led show.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in, I had choreographed a piece for that, and I was in it, and then I was in another piece for that that my friend had pulled together.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had Hope Show, and I was in a piece for that.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we were in all those rehearsals at the same time.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: What was Hope Show again?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hope show was like the big dance department show that happens once a semester.
• 28:08
  unknown: Right.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they usually have guest choreographers come in and that kind of a thing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of that, we had our capstone.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was the first year.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the dance capstone is this it's a class where you kind of apply everything that you've learned from the production side of things to dance history to theory to anything.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: You apply all of that and you are creating your own piece and you put you put on a show on the hope stage, so it's a big stage, um, and you are working with like people in other departments at Meadows, um, the art school, you're working with people in other departments to make it work.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I was working with somebody who had gotten her masters um or was working on her masters, um, and I think it was in like arts management or arts production or something like that, and she helped do like all my lighting and staging.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked with her pretty regularly to do all that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: I put together a three-part piece.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: So one, two, three, and then so actually six pieces so far.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then I was in another friend's two-part piece, and then another friend's two-part piece.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in eight per like eight different pieces over the course of five months.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, how much did you sleep?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I got super sick.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was so sick, like half of second semester, I was so sick because I was like trying to soak up all my time with my friends when I could.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was dancing like crazy and choreographing, and um, you know, it was just a lot.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember sorry, you go.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's okay.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I just remember during that time I was so sick.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was really stressed out about graduating, um feeling a little lost because a lot of my friends were gonna be leaving.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I was also still in all my business classes, doing like well.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we also had our marketing caps down that year.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember like, I remember feeling really fulfilled during that time of like, wow, I am so grateful to have these friends that is gonna make it really, really hard to leave this place.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am so glad that I'm working really like as hard as I possibly can be working in every aspect of my life right now.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was really, really, like I said, I got really sick.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it probably wasn't my healthiest like time just in terms of like I think it was just stress where I just got really sick, you know?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like and I remember like getting vertigo, and so I couldn't like drive my car for a while.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was so funny, but yeah, funny at this at the same time.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was okay, like I know, I know, but um at the same time I remember it being so fulfilling because I felt like everything I had worked for was like kind of coming to this culmination of like, look at this piece I put together and look at all of the other, like I get to be recognized by my stud by my peers because they want me in their pieces.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember that recognition was really cool because dance is subjective, and sometimes people don't.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think every dancer can relate to not being put in a piece that they wanted to be in and feeling like they were they would have been capable and able to do it, but they weren't put in it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened to me a few different times over the course of my dance career for whatever reason.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there are so many talented dancers, so it's nothing against any of them.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were all wonderful in the pieces they were in.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was always really inspired by them.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So nothing against that, but more like, well, I feel like I also could have done that, and I I would have loved to have been cast, um, especially in pieces where there wasn't a set number of people that they needed, you know?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, um I remember feeling really honored that my peers wanted to like put me in their pieces and recognize me when I felt maybe at that point that I wasn't the most recognized by the dance department.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember that being really fulfilling because I was like, wow, I get to work with people who like want me in the in the studio, you know?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was that no, I love that it's sounds like it was a culmination of a lot of hard work, but it was really that feeling of being recognized by people that you respected, right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think that played a huge role in it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um what is it about that that's so like impactful?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why is it so impactful to if you can think back to a moment when someone you respected or admired was like, oh, I want Madison.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: What's so impactful about that?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Why does it feel so good?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I think it's human nature to like want to be recognized, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody wants a shout out, right?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and so fair, but I think for I think when it's something that's really important to you and you've worked for nine years on your craft, um, seriously, and more before even more before that, yeah.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um when you've worked that hard for that long, and then someone you respect goes, like I I like in somebody that you inspires you to like be better, and that you watch in class and you're like, oh my gosh, I love the way this person moves, like I want to take some of that and like add it to my toolbox.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember I just remember going, oh wow, like I feel like my hard work has paid off in this moment where and and this happened for me, I feel like, throughout my dance career, where I had people coming up to me and going, like, I'm so surprised you weren't cast.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that kind of bothers me that you weren't put in the piece.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so I had people doing that, and then they were kind of following through on that and going, but like I see your value and like I see how hard you work.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's that validation of like, this wasn't all for naught, you know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I actually does that make sense, like I think that's as deep as I can get with it right now, but that's okay.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's it's it's cool, especially because kind of as you said before that it's not just something that you worked on really hard, it's also a form of expression of yourself, and so being recognized for your work isn't just for the hard work that you put in, it's also kind of recognition of who you are, or yes, a thousand percent.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yes, you're you're exactly right.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's the that's part of it where it's and probably the biggest part of it's it's like I see you, I see what you're trying to say, and like I like what you're saying, you know, physically.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if that makes sense.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it is, it's absolutely validating of when people want to be in the piece that you're creating, they like what you're saying and they want to, they want to express it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if they want to put you in their piece, then like it's even more of, well, I have something to say, and I want the people who I feel like can communicate that the best to the audience.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like it's cool because you're being recognized in that way of I not only recognize your hard work and recognize your talent, but I also I want you to be a mouthpiece for what I'm trying to say.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it sounds like was his name Alice King.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: What was the the teacher from San Francisco?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Alonzo King.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: Alonzo King.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was pretty close.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you were really close.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: What was it that he said again?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: He said the b the best give you can gift you can give is vulnerability.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it sounds like you took that lesson to heart because you uh started to after that, probably before that too, but maybe after that you took it more seriously to give off more of yourself, maybe in the way you express yourself in dance, and maybe in how much how much work you put in.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And from an outside perspective, then I see how that pays off for you is because because you put in more effort and showed maybe a more authentic authentic version of yourself, people kind of latched onto that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, oh, we want more of that.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's such a cool thing because it like to what we were just saying, is it's really a comment on the more you gave of yourself, the more other people wanted it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think that's hitting the nail right on the head.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I just I remember those two years were really impactful, and I just I think it's really nice to look back and go, I could not have given it more than I gave it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I gave it literally everything I had.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good feeling.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that too that carries me through now where I'm like, I want to look back on this time and feel like I've given it everything I could have, you know?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's it's hard now too, sometimes where you're like, you're not in your bubble of being in school anymore.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And three years, we're three years out now, and it's like, well, they're everybody's on their different paths, everybody's doing something different.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's that kind of comparison that sneaks in a little bit where you're like, okay, well, should I be doing that or should I be doing this?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, is what I'm doing wrong?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's important to be really self-reflective and go, but am I happy with what Madison is doing?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does this work for me?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: If not, then let's address that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, absolutely.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important to you to like stay positive during all of this because comparison is the thief of joy.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: You hear it over and over and over again.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so you just have to, I think I've had to really give myself a stern talking to of like, okay, we're gonna stay positive.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Even if this is like a hard time of life, like we're gonna find the joy in this because like the logistics of life is always gonna work itself out.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're gonna figure, you're gonna figure out what you want to do and like where you feel the most impactful, but for now, like how can you be impactful where you are?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: How often do you make those sort of reflections?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably not regularly.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I kind of feel like when I do take some time to reflect, I like to journal, like I like to write it out.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: I like to write my thoughts out, I like to talk it out.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I get, I think I honestly, I think I get my most reflective when I'm externally processing.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's talking to you or talking to my mom or like, you know, your friends, whatever, like that's when I actually start to reflect and go, oh, okay.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I think my self-reflecting time is more, I kind of ask myself questions of like, how did I do today?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I happy?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Can I put my name on this day and feel like, and and kind of to tying in my faith a little bit here is okay, did who was I working for today?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was I working for myself?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Was I working for my own glory?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Was I working for the Lord?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was I did I did he designed me to do something?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Did I do it well?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think those are the types of questions I ask myself.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think those are the things that too like motivate me through the day because at the end of the day, I'm not I'm not trying to like bring myself anything.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um you are working, you feel like you are working for others.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a good, that was actually a big question I asked um when I was going through the interview process for one of my, so I guess I've had like an interesting career path out of college.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm a flaky person.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm actually a very steadfast person, but a couple of opportunities have landed in my lap where I was like, no, this is what I need to do.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but when I was interviewing for my second job, and it was kind of one of those things where I had a connection and it was my mentor, and she knew I wasn't thriving where I was, and I was just, you know, sometimes you just get the short end of the stick, and I think sometimes that's just a push in like your next direction of like, okay, you know what?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a year.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't feel like I've grown that much during this year, even though I'm really trying.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh in a professional capacity, um, is what I mean by that.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had my mentor reach out to me and she was like, Hey, I've got this position opened up.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like where you had interns, but it would be a full-time, whatever, are you interested?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm very interested.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's like go to coffee, whatever.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the first questions I asked her was like, Do you feel like you're serving other people on a daily basis when you're working?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, that is all I do, literally.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Great, sign me up.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I think even in what I was doing before that, the I was consulting before that, and consulting, you're really serving others as well.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was the most fulfilled, when I found myself enjoying my work the most, was when I was doing very hands-on, like having conversations with others, identifying their problems, and then figuring out how to like mitigate those with them, like in a collaborative way.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that like I still do those are still the most like fulfilling conversations with me in my work, where I'm identifying problems and then trying to figure out with a group of people how to solve those problems or at least make them less like of actual issues and more just okay, this is fine.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and what are you trying to bring to other people by serving them?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I think a lot of different things, but is it about creating connections with them?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think connections are a big part of it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Connections are a big part of it because it's really I I love making connections with people and like I I like establishing trust with people.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I want people to feel like they can trust me.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I value my relationships with people.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's partially like establishing trust and like relationship building.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, like, I took my, have you ever taken the strength finders test?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Strength finders?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: You should take it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would be really interested to know what yours are.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: But my all of I so basically the way you do it is it divides you up.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: It instead of like your Myers Briggs where it gives you your pros and cons, it is kind of like in a pro it sets you in a professional setting and goes like what are your top five strengths and then what like ceilings and floors are associated with those strengths.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's kind of it's really cool because every single like identifying quality is one of um like it's a strength.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you're never gonna be like it's it essentially lets you play to your strengths.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it shows you like, okay, you're actually, you may not think that you're very strong at this, but you actually are.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And here's how we would rank you like here are your top five strengths, and then here are the rest of the 35 all the way down.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, it was funny because my number one was communication by like a long shot.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that was my highest strength.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I take that to heart.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so because I literally never stopped talking.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think a lot of that is you know, you wouldn't tell, you couldn't tell from this conversation, but um I try to ask questions and establish relationships with people, and you know, I I think that's probably why, but I just I also on another level just feel like we're called to serve other people.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's kind of like answering that calling in a way too, where I'm like, I did not, I don't really want my days to feel like self-serving, where I'm only doing something to bring myself like appreciation or and like recognition is important and pre-appreciating people around you is important.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that's a big deal.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's not the point of what I'm no, it it sounds to me, and it's something that you've touched on actually in quite a few of the aspects of this conversation, which is this creation of trust.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of what you've done has been opening yourself up and maybe asking or requesting from others to create stronger bonds, which inherently means creating trust.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can't really have a friendship without trust.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Those aren't mean anything, like sure.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, in my opinion, like I trust you so much, and I think that's probably that's part of why, like, I mean, I think aligning like our values are aligned, and like we get a lot out of our conversations with each other, but like I would not if I didn't trust you, I we we wouldn't like be able to sustain a friendship, I don't think.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so across miles and years, you know.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, I completely agree.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess something that comes up in my head on this topic of trust, because it's a really difficult issue, it's very important.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as it's pretty obvious, it's kind of something that you prioritize.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a great priority to have is building strong relationships and building trust.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: But what why is it that people have such a struggle building trust?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I I feel like that's a very multifaceted answer.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's very subjective.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: I guess a better question then would be what is one reason you've had in the past of building trust with someone?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it can be broad, I don't want you to name call anyone.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like a general scenario that you find it hard to trust someone.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think like before we like officially started this conversation, I think we were talking about like your actions are much more important than the words that you say.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so you can talk as much as you want and say, like, oh my gosh, I hear you, like let's go have a conversation about this, whatever.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you don't follow through on what you on what your words are, then that immediately creates a disconnect between you and that person.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think that happens on a lot of levels.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've seen it with like I have a couple of friendships in mind where I feel like they say or act like in person that you're very important to them, but they there's no follow-through on that whatsoever.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's no like relic regular check-in.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, we live in the same city, and I haven't seen you in like two years on our own accord.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that hard?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I find that extremely difficult.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really, really hard time with it at first.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was and especially because this all happened right after college, where I felt like all my friends moved.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you moved, and like all my girlfriends moved, and so I had a very small network of people that stayed in Dallas.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember this person who I thought was like a really like a true dear friend, um just did not prioritize like that friendship anymore, even though I was really trying to.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, people are like, well, they're just not a good, they're just not a very good texture, you just have to show up.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but if you actually care about somebody, you're gonna reach out.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, like if we're in the same city, it's a really frustrating thing to have a friendship where you try I mean, I I understand when people are busy.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would never I think it's the wrong decision to try to force yourself on another person, especially to try to get a lot of their time.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: But if someone truly cares about you, it does seem like no matter how busy they are, they might reach out everyone.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, no, a hundred percent.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think like, especially if somebody can is continually reaching out to you.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I think that's the part that frustrates me is I was like, I'm like, I don't I don't expect friendships to be one way at all.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: And one-way friendships don't work.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if somebody is continually reaching out, going like, hey, when can I see you?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, whatever, and and it there's just no reciprocation, like it doesn't matter how good of friends we were a couple of months ago or a couple of or maybe a year ago, because I think I gave it about a year before I kind of was like, okay, I'm I'm kind of gonna have to this is taking up energy that is better placed elsewhere, you know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the tough one is that with anything in your life that well with anything in life, it's a matter of how much it's a matter of energy.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like you only get so much energy to put into stuff, and right, and when you're trying to be vulnerable or to trust someone, that's like a that's a pretty emotional, it's a toll.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're exactly right.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, so I think in those scenarios where and that was that's rough because it's like it's hard, I think it's even harder to build up trust and then be disappointed because there were a couple of years of like trust being built over time, right?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then like that being torn down, which I think is even more hurtful in that way.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: And look, like I'm not everybody's cup of tea.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we I don't have to be friends with everybody.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I like my personality trait is or maybe my Achilles heel here is that I really would like to be friends with everyone, but unfortunately that's not like life, and so um, you know, it's fine.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I but I think it was it's sad because I'm like I haven't done anything differently this year than I did in the past three.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: So why all of a sudden has this friendship ended?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, and it's it's interesting because it's with those kind of real emotional connections there are the more you pin into it, right?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: You spend a couple of years building this relationship up, the stronger the emotions go on either side.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: So like the more trust you build with someone, probably the more joy you experience when you're with them.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then also the more trust you build with that person, the harder you get hit.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, no, a hundred percent.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, oh my gosh, I was so happy like with this person, it actually feels like a loss to like not have this friendship anymore.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've tried to communicate that, and this has actually happened on a couple of with a couple of people, and it's like, but I feel like this is the same like friendship that we had, like nothing's changed except you're just not interested anymore.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but I have I also feel like, and I've been having a lot of conversations with my mom about this recently.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but I think she always says, like, your heart always has room to grow, your heart always has room to get bigger.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I a hundred percent agree where it's like I always have room to love uh more people and to like bring people in.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's always room for that.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: What there's not room for is when you're trying and trying and trying and you're expending all this energy when it really could be better expended on people that are reciprocating that.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like friendships are there are very much times where friendships are one-sided.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And some of my closest friends, there have been like many months at a time where I'm like, this is a very one-sided friendship, but it's okay because like we're still talking, I know you still love me, and it is my duty to like be here for you right now.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: We can talk about my life when all of this settles down for you, and that is totally fine.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's just, you know, there's a difference, right?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's acknowledging like where other people are in their lives and where you are in yours, and whether or not you feel like the energy that you're giving is like worthwhile, and that's subjective, you know what I mean?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you start feeling drained rather than I think when you start feeling drained over a long period of time rather than like hopeful or grateful, then that's the time where you need to maybe reevaluate and go, okay, is this friendship like is this an actual friendship?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that that's a really poignant point that I think everyone can empathize with, which is with any relationship, no matter I think you feel this especially true when it's like a uh romantic relationship, but even even in friendships, there is a feeling of hope.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a very visceral feeling, you know, the time they text you back or the time they call you back, and you're like, oh, actually, this might be something, and that's it once again, it's friendships as well.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really well put to say the time when you start to lose hope about the other person, yeah, is maybe a time when you should start rethinking that relationship.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think that you can have be drained after one conversation with like somebody who's frustrating you.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my god, I oh my gosh, like my best friend in the world.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I there was like a period of time where I got so mad at her because she was investing so much time with this guy who did not treat her the way she deserved to be treated.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it made me so mad because I knew her worth.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is I'm like, if I can be treated better by some frat guy who like is actually not like a very good guy, and your worth is so wonderful and you're so amazing.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see that like somebody could even treat you slightly better, then this is not enough.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was very frustrating and draining to have those conversations with her because I kept telling her over and over and over, I was like, I don't think that this is worth your energy or your time.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: And out of complete like love for her and no and nothing else, right?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much like, I love you.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is not, this ain't it.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, I remember that conversation being those conversations and those few months being really draining.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, why, like, and that was a draining situation, right?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'm sure you can empathize where you're like, who is this girl that this guy is dating?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she's not worth his time, she doesn't treat him well.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is frustrating.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't that was not a, and maybe that was a little bit more one-sided at that time, I guess.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I always felt valued by her, even though I was really drained.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think even more than that, it sounds like you never had the idea that you were losing, like she was actually losing interest in you.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was just that she was there's you still had like I I don't even know if that far into the relationship you still call it hope, but you still had hope and you still felt appreciated.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like hope encompasses like a lot of different emotions, and I think it's the only word I can think of right now where it's like I mean, and really I think it's like love too, but you can love someone and have to separate anyway.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's that.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's when you start losing that kind of feeling of appreciation.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess so.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's I don't know, it's really hard to I think it's a combination of appreciation and excitement.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think that's true.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um reciprocation too.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though I was drained by those conversations and drained by those couple of months emotionally, just because I you invest in your friends, you love your friends, and I personally take a lot of I have people, I mean, like my Cabble said it best.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Madison, the thing is is sometimes you get a little too like empathetic in that like I might say, like, I have to shit.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you would go, Oh my gosh, me too.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, okay, that's actually not a bad metaphor.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I know that I take stuff like that when things are happening to my friends, I take it personally because I love my friends dearly and I want things to go well for them.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was one of those things where, but I never lost that feeling of this friendship, although it's one-sided right now.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hope that and the encouragement that at some point it will get back to that two-sided friendship.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what it is, you know, absolutely.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: No where you can be drained, but you can still be hopeful that at some point this will return to its normal state.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's it's really well put.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the kind of the theme of this discussion and or of what you've been saying and what I've been listening to, rather.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really symbolic, maybe, of the path, at least from a outside perspective, of the path that you've taken as a person, which is starting as this, and probably still a very competitive person, right?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: But starting as this extreme this hyper competitive uh adolescent, and then falling in more in love with dancing and finding this pathway to more genuinely express yourself to others, and out of that finding how valuable the connection is that can be built from genuinely expressing yourself, right?
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that comes in the form of this whole past 10 minutes, which is all on trust, which is the ability to give yourself to another person, whether that's in conversation or expressing to an audience, building trust with an audience that you're dancing in front of.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: And in that kind of excitement and hope that comes out of building that trust.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a really incredible thing to value and a really incredible thing to prioritize in your life, which it sounds like you do.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's exciting.
• 1:02:15
  unknown: Thanks.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good place to wrap up.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: I want to thank Madison for that thoughtful discussion.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: Though I got a bit of the picture from friends in college, I had absolutely no clue that dancing was such a massive commitment in high school and beforehand.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciated not just the quote from Alonzo King, the greatest gift you can give is vulnerability.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: But also the courage Madison has to live with that quote in mind.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: She's a great example of the honest trust that can be built when people are willing to be vulnerable for the ones they love.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: I enjoyed hearing about the pride she takes in forming strong connections with others.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: It shows how meaningful real relationships are.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: So meaningful, in fact, that the quality of our relationships might even be a good metric to judge the prudence of our current actions.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me consider how forthright and trusting I've been in my own relationships.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it does for you too.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you liked this episode of Seeking Authenticity, that's freaking awesome.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: All I want to ask of you, the listener, in return for the time and effort I put into making it, is that you take a deep breath.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean really breathe.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Breathe so that it stretches out your shoulders and your back and your chest and pushes out your stomach.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: No more of these shallow, bullshit breaths, they're barely keeping you alive, my friend.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: And after you exhale, go out and soak up today.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the end, your actions and the way they interact with the world and the people.