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England Survive Mexico Drama… But can we beat Haaland! | Outside the Box · Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew

• 0:10
  This episode of Outside the Box is sponsored by Bellarm and Joints and Solicitor. It's like where we've just been on holiday. Where'd you go? We've both just been away, haven't we? Where did you go? Turkey. Tony went to Turkey. Get his teeth done again. Come back with a massive smile. This sums us both up. Tony's just been on a holiday to Turkey and I went to Benidorm. Hmm.
• 0:38
  I remember my roots, mate. You know what I mean? He's gone superstar and he goes to Turkey. Not a chance. I just needed a quick week. So I just, we just looked at what was available. And Turkey looked, it ticked all the boxes. And then when you've got four kids who all want to come, 21 and 18 year olds want to come in Aldi with the mum and dad.
• 0:57
  Like, when I was 21 or 18, there was not a chance of going on. But do you want to come? So I just thought, right, I've got to use my brain here. Turkey's all-inclusive. All-inclusive. Yeah. Water slides and all-inclusive. And I swear, R. Colby just ate every single thing. Fair play to him. He came down, amazing. It was three plates for breakfast, three plates for dinner, three plates for tea, and I was just like,
• 1:19
  Oh, like father, like son, eh? No, it's not. Don't start me off, mate. I'm very conscious about my weight. Don't call me fat, in other words. I didn't. I've seen you eat before. So, yeah. We just thankfully got through. Where in Turkey did you go? This time we went to Bodrum. Ah. No clue where that is. I've been to Antalya, Balech and Bodrum. Very nice hotel, to be fair.
• 1:43
  I'm a quarter Turkish and I've never been. Really? Yeah. So we've been to Turkey more than you? Most times with me, yeah. And I'm actually from there. That's like the fifth time I've been. It's a great place to go where it's not stupidly expensive. It's got everything in the comments.
• 1:57
  Yeah. Slides, messing around things, shows on every night. Yeah. It's got everything. I went once and the hotel had everything. And it was that one week, you know, when we were all locked down for COVID and then they suddenly said, we're not locked down for a week. And everyone suddenly went all over the place. And then we were locked down again. But in that like week, 10 days, I was one of the mass that ended up in Turkey. Did you watch the game there?
• 2:24
  Yeah, the only snag was to have the most obnoxious, obscene Russians. They're the most rudest people in the world. Just walking in front of you in the queues and just barging in front of you. And they come close a couple of times to me opening my mouth and just going, one more time, one more time. Watch yourself. Yeah. That would have been a good battle, to be fair. Yeah. I fancy a few of them. Big, fat, hairy things, but they just leave me having a little nap.
• 2:53
  But that is also, you know, to all of the Russians out there, we're not saying all Russians are rude. It's just the ones that were in Tony's hotel at that time. They're just so obnoxious. Just the Russians that live in Texas. They're just obnoxious at times. They're so rude. Never, ever, ever seen one say please or thank you. It's not in their vocabulary, you know. You couldn't have spoken to many Russians. Please and thank you is not in their vocabulary. Loads of them. There's loads of them there. That's because they speak Russian, Tony. No, mate.
• 3:19
  You know when you open the door for someone? I can't do that all the time. You open the door and let people through. Or if you're in a queue and there's a woman behind you and you go, go on, love, you go first. And just look at me. Just walk in front of me. Not even like a door. Just walk in front of me. Yeah. I don't really know where to go from here. Let's just talk about football. That's what we just talk about. Where you watch the game? In the hotel? Yeah.
• 3:45
  Yeah. First game or second game? Oh, you were there for the Congo game? You were back home for the Mexico one, weren't you? Yeah. I think. No, I was... Yeah, I was home for the Mexico one. I was away for the Congo one. Oh, was you, yeah? Yeah. I was home for the Mexico one. We've missed both, haven't we? Yeah. Let's do a quick brief on the Congo game then. What do you think about that? Job done.
• 4:11
  When we look back now, a little bit of worry and frustration and not the easiest to perform. It's a slow start, poor defender. Marcus Rashford started it off by letting his man run. There was a knock-on effect from it that ended up doing Jed Spence that they had to cover at the far post.
• 4:29
  But yeah, great character. Harry Kane and Jude Bellingham in particular. Because as the game went on, excuse me, as the game went on, people stopped being brave and getting on the ball. No, not Jude Bellingham. He just kept getting on that ball, kept trying to make things happen. And we lacked...
• 4:46
  I thought it was going to be that podcast where we were going to talk about lack of Phil Foden, superstar Phil Foden. He is missing. You can see us. He's missing. For those moments, you do wonder, but we showed good patience, good determination. And I sat watching it because kids were watching it with their mates as they, as they do nowadays. And,
• 5:08
  My missus walked in the room, literally as we scored the equaliser, and I made her stand there for like 20 minutes. Oz, you didn't make a stand there. No, I didn't. She just said to her. I told her I wanted her to stand there. I said, don't do moves. She went, don't be silly. I'm done. Me stood here for the moment. I said, that's the first time you've come in and stood there. Don't you move. But she left. Yeah.
• 5:30
  how superstitious you can get from the football. Don't get above yourself mate. She just said to him calm down. Don't ever speak to me like that again. He resumed normally. Unbelievable winning goal from Kane. No. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're in the semifinals. Sorry the last through to the next stage. And then obviously that game in Mexico. What a game. In that stadium. The most iconic stadium. I mean
• 5:59
  They say it's a bucket list thing to go and go to that stadium. Have you ever played there? No. No. I've been to Cancun. Nice. Been to Cancun and Riviera, man. Yeah. But I've never been to the Aztec yet. And it's something that, you know, I look back after the game and think, bloody hell, I wish I'd have somehow gone there. I've been in that stadium on that night and I've witnessed that because it was...
• 6:29
  It was unbelievable, really. It was crazy to watch. Yeah, I just... When we go 3-1 up, you're just thinking, right, the job's done, and then the tackle happens. I feel sorry for him. Oh, the tackle happened when it was 2-1, and we got the penalty...
• 6:47
  within minutes of going down to 10 men. We've got the penalty to go 3-1. You feel sorry for him? I feel sorry for him. You feel sorry for an excellent pool player? It is very rare of me, but there's no way he meant that. And someone has got to have the common sense to go, as if, like, Neo or the Matrix couldn't have timed jumping on that ball on your leg. I don't know, I think it is red. I just feel sorry. I get why it's red, because the leg can't land that high on the shin, but someone's got to take it and just go, there's no way he meant that.
• 7:16
  No, he didn't. I think he's gone in to obviously slide and win the ball. Touch the ball.
• 7:23
  Yeah, and at the time I was saying, no, no red card, you know, it's, please, referee. All that one. At least slow anything down the one that was terrible. Yeah, but if you put together the force he went into the challenge with, because he did try and make a crunch and tackle, the fact that he's gone in and he's bounced his foot on top of the ball, which he certainly didn't mean to do, which then propels his foot higher. You do the slow motion, you go with the aggression of the tackle, where he's made contact, it doesn't really matter. It was a mistake, it's...
• 7:53
  there's too many things going for it.
• 7:56
  Against them. Yeah. For it to be a red card, it's never going to get overturned. I don't think Trump could get that one overturned. I don't think it's going to get overturned, but I just feel... It's one of them ones where you go, you've thrown yourself into a tackle, you're trying to get there and win it. He's gone purely for the ball and his foot's at the top of the ball. It's just so unlucky. I get your point. Is it foolish or is it unlucky, though? Is there anything else that he could have done rather than making that challenge that's when he gets the ball? No, you're lucky. You're...
• 8:25
  The game is what it is. There's so much emotion in the game that sometimes split decisions happen. People pick up yellow cards without meaning to. You make a decision in a moment. Sometimes you time it perfectly. Sometimes it comes your way. Sometimes you don't time it perfectly, but you get a little bit lucky. And he was the opposite of that. He timed it well, just got a little bit unlucky. And then they were horrible as well.
• 8:48
  they're Mexicans they were at the referee at us giving players the game no one know that but you know you've got that horror bag like when the challenge goes in and they all go nuts that also added to it
• 9:03
  when they're all screaming shot and then they're having a little bit of scrap on the side. But there was the little horror thing, he was the winger, the little runt he was. You could just see, he's the one, don't you? He's the one. He's the one in the nightclub at the back. Come on, let's have it. And he's pushing everyone to the foot. Come on, let's do it. He's one of them. I want to know which one you're doing. We've all got that, mate. Yeah, we've all got that, mate. We've got loads of them. I've got tons of them over the years. But I'm telling you, he's just that fun fella going, let's have it. And he's pushing it and he's at the back.
• 9:31
  But I just thought they were horrible. They weren't nice. They were nasty. Did you see the, they were competitive. They are very competitive. Even the fans when the game is on and they're singing the national anthem and then all of that passion that goes into the game. But let's believe they're after the game, that they're the most sort of gracious fans in the world and shake your hands and wish you're all the best. Like lovely, lovely, lovely, lovely people, but ferocious, ferocious.
• 9:59
  Ferocious when the game is on, as you've seen. Did you see the few things that happened to their manager telling Anthony Gordon to, Anthony, Gordon, Gordon. Anthony just went, fuck off.
• 10:16
  I haven't seen that. I have a clim of it. He literally, in one sentence, he shouts to go, and it was in the first 10 or 15 minutes, just goes, go on, go on. And he turns around, and he just goes, and then he just laughs at himself, and he just looks at him for a second, and then turns away, smiling, like, confused about what just happened. I'll tell you what I have seen. I've seen Henderson, the coach, flying over that advertising. What was he doing? I mean, yes, he played a minute of any game, and he's got a book, and he's broke his arm.
• 10:46
  I mean, how is that even? What is he playing? It was an impressive evening with regards to ticking boxes that I didn't think many people could do. Not getting on the pitch, getting a yellow card and breaking your arm. Did you see the fall, though? Oh, yeah. That's a nasty, horrible break. Awkward fall. I feel for the lad there. That's not a nice break, that. I feel for him. But now he can do the role that you've always wanted him to do.
• 11:12
  so they're sort of about getting a operation and going home but I'm thinking nah give them keep them around keep them around he's done that role the whole time he's been there so his broken arm shouldn't make much of a difference then really I'm just furious that we can't phone Phil Foden now and just bring him back in phone Phil Foden phone Phil Foden
• 11:31
  You could do Anton Deckham, just join Anthony Barry at the half-time show. Yeah. He could, yeah. He's doing great. I'm made up for him. He's doing absolutely brilliant. I hope he gets a big job from this. I think he might. I hope he does, because he speaks sense and he just tells the truth. Believe it or not, that's quite rare in football.
• 11:51
  Yeah, some people are better set up for sort of coaches or to be assistants. They always said that about Colin Harvey or Everton, that he was a better number two than he was a number one. Who's the best coach you've ever had those? You say his sessions were just brilliant. Everything, every session he'd done was just quality. Oh, I don't know that actually.
• 12:16
  I was sort of blinded by the amount of sessions I did for Moisey. Oh, no, he's a gaffer, he's a manager. Who's the best coach you've ever come across? I don't know, Alan Irvin was good.
• 12:28
  Steve Brown was good Colin Harvey I had as a kid that was when I learnt the most so whether I say that that was just the time and I think 16 to 19 I think you do you learn a lot in life certainly in football and I had Colin Harvey as my coach at the time that was outstanding and he does
• 12:49
  As a man management, was he brilliant? Was he great with his kids? Yeah, but again, it's 16 to 19. You're still a kid, aren't you? So you're kind of learning how to be treated like men and not like a schoolteacher sort of influence of authority. What's your attention span like at that age? What? What's your attention like at our... What? What? What?
• 13:14
  He never stops, you know, honestly. He can't help himself. At that age... My intentions are not good yet. I know there's some players that... Because you will have played them over the years and thought it's just going in one ear and out the other. Oh, yeah, like...
• 13:27
  Fellaini was one of the mad ones for that. Honestly, we'd do... You're joking, Fellaini. We'd sit down and do set pieces. These are the set pieces at the weekend, and we did it on the screen and on the video, and you think you can watch the video, and I can watch the videos, see what I'm supposed to do, look where I'm supposed to be, and then I can then know without going out on the pitch. Yeah.
• 13:48
  where I'm supposed to be. Fellaini would watch it on the video and you can see in his eyes, he's, I think he's getting it. And then, and then you go out onto the pitch and he's like, looking around going, me? Where am I supposed to be? What am I supposed to do? Like he just didn't have a clue. It just seemed to, like I thought he'd forgot. He was like, our target for some pieces as well. Oh, amazing. No, so he'd mark up. So then Moyes would have to go in and literally grab him by the shoulders and pop him exactly where it is and basically tell him,
• 14:15
  look around. This is what it should look like when you're in the right spot. And he was like, right, okay, okay. And in the end, I had to go mark people and he had to go and stand where he wanted to. I know what he was thinking when he comments. Some of the words he come out with, what these taught him when he first arrived. Why what? You just don't want to do some of the words. A lot of people, though, you want to try and take advantage of them. Yeah.
• 14:41
  As you're learning a new language, in a group of teams, you tell them something else. Some of the things he'd say, I'd come in the day and change the name, and he'd go like, have you been goosin'? And I'd just look around to see, who's been telling him to say these things? Yeah, when Tony walks, he'd go on to him and say, just ask him if you've been goosin'? And I'd go like, what?
• 15:02
  Come on, me. It's just for real, serious. And then you'd hear them laughing like little children. But yeah, some of the things he'd come up with, he was funny, I'm not. Yeah. He was hilarious. He was. Going back to Henderson, when...
• 15:18
  Tuchel making those substitutes. I, with Jed Spence and Dan Byrne, I actually thought there was an opportunity to bring Henderson on and go two banks of four rather than a flat back five. Do you think it was right to go? Well, obviously we saw it out, but what were you thinking at that point when those subs were coming on?
• 15:33
  I was thinking, I hope we've still got something for the counter-attack. I thought Andy Gordon was outstanding. Best I've seen him in an England shirt. Yeah, had a great game. And I was glad that he stayed on because I was thinking we need somebody to be able to, you know, we can't just defend on the edge of our box for...
• 15:52
  was it like 30-odd, 36, 40, whatever it was with the added time, like 11 minutes of it. And I was thinking, we've got something going that way, but we didn't, did we? And we never actually really got out. It was just kicking the ball away, but it was still...
• 16:07
  The most exhilarating defensive display I've seen in a long time, certainly in an England jersey. People are saying, going into the Lions' den, defending it, not seeing that resilience from England. Well, I've not seen it since the game I watched when we went to Italy to get into the 98 World Cup. And Paul Lince ended up cutting his head, blood everywhere. We got a 0-0 result that day, digging it in.
• 16:32
  This was better. This felt better because it was in the World Cup and it was to get us into the quarterfinals and felt a little bit of injustice. Two good goals, good defending in their lines. Then at altitude, which was higher than... They lost in how many years? Well, 13 years since they'd been beating a competitive game in that stadium. I can see the goal in how long. And they'd only lost two games in that stadium competitively since 1966. Oh, wow. This is ridiculous. Special mention, though, has to go to...
• 17:01
  Oh, he was unbelievable. Everyone was, but Jordan made some big saves at crucial moments. But we know that. He always does. He's made some crazy saves. I mean, he had a save of the season competition with himself this season every month. It was ludicrous. I spoke to him a couple of hours before he was messaging me and talking about seeing someone who knows me, who we both know. Oh, they said they were in the hotel.
• 17:26
  And I said, oh, hey, you're all right, how's things going? And he went, you know what? Just years like Newcastle away. That's the exact words he said. And I just thought, fair play. He's right for him, though, because he gets... That is going into a lion's den for him, isn't it? Every season he's getting stick. It's all about him. And then he can go and do the performance he did for Everton and make the saves he did for Everton this season. So, yeah, I mean, that's the thing about this generation and these players as well. The...
• 17:52
  quite a lot of them are playing regular Champions League football and they're playing regular top-notch competitive games that it's not unheard of for them to have experienced that three or four times. Yes, this was probably an extreme, but, you know, it was... The game plan was great as well when you're talking about
• 18:11
  you know, going to the back five and Tuchel knowing to bring on Dan Byrne in that moment, moving Gahey out, Stones, he came on and was right up to speed straight away. Jed Spence had his best 20 minutes or so because he actually stopped crosses and did his job best he could. Tuchel got everything right, even, you know, the antibody talking. He said, we knew it'd be...
• 18:34
  kind of tough up until the first hydration break. Get to the first hydration break. Everybody knew they were going to come at us. And if you get through that, because they're going to try and wear you down in that first block, get through that. Fine. I thought we were good and had to make a few saves, good saves, but I thought we were reasonably comfortable. And then suddenly we hit them with the...
• 18:52
  They are 1-2. I'll tell you what, Benidorm erupted. Let me tell you, Benidorm erupted. I just thought Bellingham was just... I've seen his plays all the time. He just can't explain how important he is to our team. Because even when they want to keep going sideways and they want to keep being safe with the ball, he's just like, no.
• 19:17
  No, I'll try it myself and he'll go and he'll penetrate and he'll get in there. He runs his base. I mean, I'd love to see his running stats because he does some serious running. How much does it affect you?
• 19:30
  that climate and that altitude. Massively. And that was what was probably the most impressive thing. And then the team coming out after the end, whether it was the adrenaline of what they were doing and what they were trying to achieve or whether it was whatever the circumstances, a couple of them said, you know, the altitude wasn't as bad.
• 19:50
  as they thought it was going to be, which is a ridiculous statement because that's the reason why every single season teams go to Austria and Switzerland and these places that are high altitude because it's to make it more difficult and then it's to sort of stretch you even more so than when you come back down. That's why I think Eddie had said sort of about boxes, about...
• 20:12
  Big Bear. We're training Big Bear. That's what we do. But you've got to time it right. If you come down more than four days, you lose the benefits of it. So Lennox Lewis used to always prepare in Big Bear in California. It's a super high altitude. But he wouldn't come to Vegas before the Wednesday because he'll lose all the benefits that he's gained from training Big Bear. It's got to be timed perfectly. It's so important.
• 20:36
  So that is what the players are doing. That's what you do pre-season. So to have just literally gone in there for one game to try and then go and perform against a team that are used to doing it, that play it regular, that are tuned into doing that all the time. It was always going to be really difficult and yet...
• 20:55
  They somehow managed it. They looked full of energy. I think it was an unfair advantage that the Mexicans were given. I don't think that was fair. You're favouring them so much. Look at the stats that we've got going against us. How often have they conceded a goal at that stadium? How many games have they lost? Why are we playing the host nation, one of the host nations, on their patch? It does feel... It is crazy. No, it does feel when you go into a World Cup that...
• 21:24
  You know, you're playing them in that stadium, considering that America are across a few stadiums and Canada are across a couple of stadiums. But that's part of the World Cup. It's part of the draw. You know, someone's got to go play them in their place. They did well by winning their group, which then meant, as happened for England and the Euros, by winning their group, it meant they got to continue playing in that stadium.
• 21:48
  Whereas, so when we were at the Euros, I think, a couple of years back when it was in England, we won our group. So we got to keep on playing at Wembley. And would you say that was an unfair advantage? I know you're not talking altitude-wise. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just that stadium and that scenario and them settings. It's just so unfair. I mean, imagine if Mexico beat us. Are they getting to play at the...
• 22:08
  No, I think that's the last game. Is it? Yeah, I think it is. You just didn't see that. I know. I think Mexico would have had to then, if they won that game, then they had to go start playing the next cinema because the stadiums are all decided, aren't they? It's mad, isn't it, how they've got the chance of them getting there and the game is always going to be...
• 22:28
  So was that last 16 game always going to be at the Azteca, regardless if it was next goal? Yeah, it was, yeah. It just looks like it was set up for them. So we kind of knew if we win our group, that's the path. We knew it. And Miami's the next one against Norway. I'll be honest. And then one of the semi-final stadiums, I think it might be Dallas and Atlanta. Dallas and Atlanta as well, yeah.
• 22:56
  I think both of them, Dallas and Atlanta, are both roof stadiums with air conditioning, climate control. That's good. Then you go and play the final is New Jersey with its open roof and that'll be hot. Hopefully the Vikings struggle in the sun. They should do. We need them to. I'm telling you now. So they haven't looked like they've been struggling. They have been the team to watch. Not quite the surprise when we were talking a couple of pods ago looking for the surprise. Yeah.
• 23:24
  Not a surprise because I think that's 14 wins they've had now. They lost to France in the end, but they knew they weren't...
• 23:34
  They knew they were already through. 10 changes, was it? Yeah. So I don't know if you take that one with a pinch of salt, but Haaland has scored in 14 straight games now for his country. He's scored more. I think it's 16 and 14. Is it? It's frightening. It's the same as what Mbappe's doing, to be honest. I'll just stop him.
• 23:57
  At source, because if you allow crosses to come in, look at their goal, their first goal. Gabriel just gets left on him. Yeah, but Gabriel's not in a bad position and he's opening his body up and he's trying to see both. They've done them. The moment you take your eye off one or the other because Haaland gets into a ridiculously good...
• 24:15
  centre-forward's position, just off his shoulder, so Gabriel can't actually see him and see the ball. So Gabriel's trying to do both, which you do, and the moment he sort of turns away from Haaland, he's lost the ball, so he looks back to the ball, and as he does, Haaland makes his run, and he can't see it coming. And then he's losing. Neville fully blamed Gabriel. Yeah, well, I get it, but...
• 24:38
  It's so hard because of how good Haaland is. Everyone sees the finishes he does, yes. And his finishes are ridiculous and his pace. I told you, my wife's been watching videos of him. All right, Leon, you leave what you get up to in the house, please. We don't want to know. She's been watching videos of him because she's like, is this a real person? Like, you know, he's bigger than everyone. He's a monster. Yeah, so if you get yourself into a physical battle with him,
• 25:04
  then it's going to be tough. And in that moment, Gabriel just took his eye off the ball and he was never going to win that physical battle. So you've basically got to stop the ball getting delivered into the penalty. Your full-backs have got to stop crosses. Neville says straight away, he's got to be touch-tight every single, as soon as to Haaland. At least a little nudge, stop the jump, stop the run. And I thought it's right. I get what you're saying. No, that's... Because if you're touch-tight too much, he's not winning that header.
• 25:32
  I don't know about that because if you touch tight to someone who's three or four inches taller than you, then how are you going to stop them from... A little nudge before he jumps. Maybe, maybe a little nudge. But if the delivery's good and you're in there, suddenly he can maybe get away from you quicker, but he's got more pace. I mean, I wouldn't want to be touch tight with someone who's quicker than me and taller than me. I wouldn't want to go anywhere near him. Although, you know, you can nudge and you can get underneath, but do you get someone else to come back and help you defend? What I've got to give him credit for is he never goes down.
• 26:02
  He loves the fact that he never dies, never jumps on the floor, never whinges. Even when he gets clattered, he just gets up straight away. He is, you're looking at kids today playing football, he's the one to watch it. He's got to have a number nine again. His movement is incredible though. Not just his physicality, not just his finishing, his movement and understanding of his position is outstanding. Brilliant role model for young kids. That's who you should be looking at. He is a perfect role model. And do you know what? In a...
• 26:30
  In a world where we've lacked centre-forwards of late, you know, when you grow up, everyone wanted to be Duncan Ferguson, Bob Latchford, you know, Ian Rushes, and everyone wanted to be some sort of Les Vann, Alan Shearer, some sort of centre-forward, and no one really wanted to be anything else. You sort of found your way to other positions in the team. Or even if you're not a number nine or number ten, you know, a Sheringham or a Beardsley or...
• 26:57
  No one wants to be them. Or these kind of players. Everyone wants to be that. I couldn't be the big number nine, so I had to choose to try and be one of them. But in a world with that, we've lacked that. Everyone's now, for the last 10 or 15 years, all these kids, and maybe it's the way academies develop because of the way they do the set-up and the way they want to develop sort of technical players rather than players that can do what Haaland can do.
• 27:22
  But we've lacked people wanting to go and play number nine. Look at England. Look at the World Cup squad. And you go, well, who are you going to pick? Harry Kane. Well, he's in his 30s, but he's still our best. Who are you going to take him? Let's just say the next World Cup. Who have we got as a striker that's coming through? Who have we got as our next striker who knows how to play? You've got Oli Watkins who's playing up there. Ivan Toney. Calvert-Lewin, maybe. Maybe.
• 27:47
  But let's not mess about that. That is a big drop in class from the Canes and your top guys. You've got your Liam De Lapps and stuff like that. I get it. But no one wants to... What you're saying is no one wants to be a number nine. Because no one wants it to be a number nine. No one wants it to go play these other positions that we've now...
• 28:03
  lacked sort of kids going, that's where I play, I'm a centre forward. Everyone wants to be a salad or a, you know, a back pay. That's where football is. And that's what this tippy-tappy knocking around stuff has done to football. So maybe Haaland, sorry, coming back to the point though, maybe Haaland, playing like he is and doing what it is, is making kids go, nah, I want to be Haaland. I want to be the next one of them. I'm going to go play up front.
• 28:24
  I think the players that you're talking about do still exist because you look at that Igor Thiago at Brentford he's a lesser version of Haaland but he's playing in that same way the nine up front the big man slams in so people get stuck in we've got one in Beto scores less scores but he wants to get stuck in he plays and runs out the channels
• 28:40
  I think whatever mistakes with Haaland is, at a club like City, he gets the service. And with all due respect, the forwards would... You'd struggle to score less than 25 goals up front for City if you were at the service that he had. What's impressive for me is what he's doing in Norway. That's the most...
• 28:59
  What he's doing there, I actually think Odegaard is a better player for Norway than he is for Arsenal. And does better for Norway. Dominates the game for Norway, doesn't he, man? He does really well. Whereas at Arsenal, I don't think he's been as good, maybe not as good this season, but I think Beckham does a lot more than him. But for Haaland, he's just, I don't see a weakness. I don't see a weakness in this game. Do we beat them?
• 29:22
  Yeah, I do think we do, but you better stick to show on them. It's not easy, though. I'll tell you what, someone was here getting asked, it might have been you guys a while back, and I was saying, I'd rather play Brazil.
• 29:34
  Yeah, 100%. I don't know about that. I think they were poor this tournament. I think reputation-wise... That's all it's down to for me. You know, that's the only reason why I think we don't beat Brazil because we're all going, oh my God, it's Brazil. Team to team, I think, and Styles as well. I thought we'll beat Brazil. Norway's different. However, Norway... Because Norway can do a bit of everything. They can play on the counter-attack. They can be devastating on the counter-attack.
• 29:59
  But I think nearly every game they've been in, they've had the most possession. Yeah, they play a bit of a possession game. Odegaard just gets on the ball and dominates, doesn't he? The European team. I think the culture's gone from Brazil now and they need to find their identity again. But I just think our players going up against Brazil, it would have just...
• 30:16
  Basically, oh shit, it's Brazil. Regardless of the team. I think Brazil have done that in previous tournaments. Scared people. Yeah, but they've been a little bit like, just bottled it. Didn't they get whacked in a tournament a few years back? Was it like 7-1? Something? Yeah. They've been bad. That was when they were the hosts back in 2014. That was a huge shock for them, that one. But they haven't been great for years now. I know this is the longest they've ever gone without winning the World Cup. Mm-hmm.
• 30:45
  You've got to look at it though. They've tried everything with managers and now they're going to European managers. You've got South Americans trying to play European style of football and I think that's just the top and bottom of it and you're not going to catch...
• 30:59
  It doesn't suit their style of playing. It doesn't suit all their players, to be honest. I haven't seen one Maverick in the... Sorry, Barvinny. Vinny Jr. is unbelievable. You can see how sharp and quick he was. But he's one man. They used to play Samba football, didn't they? Because that's their culture. So when you played them in the World Cup, generally in the heat, you were thinking, what a team and the way they played. But you're right, there's...
• 31:25
  Most of them play in the top European leagues now, which has taken the Brazilian-ness away from them a little bit. Yeah.
• 31:33
  Taking the culture, which is sad. So we're not going to be playing them. No way in a different threat. I get that. It's just simple, in my opinion. Two cents a half. Are you worried about that match-up, though, between Haaland? I think our defence has been shaky at times. Even though we did well against Mexico, it still was shaky. We need to stop at its source. Gay and Stones. I don't know if bringing Dan Bairn in because he's a big fella is the answer straight away. As I heard someone suggest... Two players who know him. Just two players who know him.
• 32:03
  and I don't think it's time to change to two players who know him you know his movements you train with him every day Oz you know him I understand the thought process but I still need Konza's pace there because Arland will get away from most and he might still get away from Konza but he's got the best chance of
• 32:21
  Of catching him. You've got to have one of them, two in stones, okay, because you know him. Yeah, you'll have one of them. But look, the performance we put in against Mexico, we've shown that we can defend like we did for the first 20 minutes. I thought then we took the ball quite well. I thought O'Reilly, again, was brilliant for us. I thought we hit them like we did, again, brilliantly. Jude Bellingham, outstanding.
• 32:46
  Harry Kane, the way he put that ball back across rather than shoot, I thought, great decision. Obviously, we got the benefit from it.
• 32:54
  And then we showed we can defend in the second half. I mean, one of the most impressive, we'd just gone down to 10 men and we still managed to get that extra goal, which was so crucial. Yes, it was a bit of fortune maybe, but... A penalty all day. No, the way it fell through to, you know, ricochet defender, heads it onto Kane and then Gordon Lively, best game I've seen and played for England, gets the penalty. Yeah.
• 33:17
  Because we didn't half need that. Has it been 2-1? I think we'd have lost that game. Because if they'd have got that back level, that game, we had no way. When he took that penalty, I'd seen Gordon wanted it. And he basically just said, boy, on your bike. Sit down, you. Boy, your captain's talking now, lad, on your bike, on your bike.
• 33:34
  I don't think God realistically thought he was taking a pass. No, I know what you can see. I think it's one of them ones where you go up and you just have the ball for a minute. I've won it, I want it. And you'll have the ball for a minute. Just give Kane a chance. I'm just so happy that he's lost it because I just had visions of that first penalty in the other game. That was... Where he misses it and I just thought, please don't do this. Why don't footballers also just put your foot through the...
• 33:57
  Well, he did. And I knew exactly where he was going to go. Because of that moment, he was going to go hard to his favourite side, to the left, with as much power as he could muster. And that's what beat the keeper. And it was such an important goal. He always had a wide way, didn't he?
• 34:13
  I don't know if I've ever, and I'm going back to my teenage years as well, but I don't ever think I've been as wrapped up emotionally in an England game as I was that whole night, even getting excited, going to watch it. And then, I mean, it was...
• 34:29
  One o'clock in the morning, supposedly. It didn't kick off till two. Three o'clock in Benadolme, by the way. Let me point that out. You're still a bit old Ben, anyway. And I was flying home the next afternoon. You got to watch it with people. I had to sit. My kids all said, I'm watching it. We're just watching it. We're just watching it. And when the hour delay came, everyone was just asleep. Yeah. So I was just sitting there on me jack, just watching it and just thinking, I'm just...
• 34:51
  He should have gone out to any pub or any town or anywhere because that's what I'm saying. The nation was up. You see, every town just had to stay behind. I mean...
• 35:02
  My son, 18-year-old, were out in the local village. They managed to get a stay behind, like 20 of his mates, and they were all in there together. I'm like, what a bloody occasion. And we were all up. It was just such reward, I would say, for everybody that was watching. Imagine going home disappointed after staying until 5 or 6 o'clock.
• 35:24
  But we've now all got this lifelong memory of where we were, what we were doing it, who we watched it with, how it made us feel. It wasn't in Benidorm like, but you know. I don't think I've jumped. I mean, I was jumping up, dancing around on that trip, let me tell you. But I don't think I jumped at any point higher than when the goals were going in. Honestly, it was, I felt like a teenager all over again, watching us. Now, the only problem and worry about that is,
• 35:50
  You know what we're like when we're England and we have such highs and lows and we're such a rollercoaster of emotions and we'll expect to feel like that every game. I think we've shown every game's different and it's going to take a different performance if we're going to beat Norway and it's going to take a bit of patience from us, I suppose. What do we have to do on the board? We spoke about how we maybe try and stop Ireland. What do we have to do to go and win that game against Norway?
• 36:15
  I think we play our own game. We'll defend for periods, no problem at all. I think we try and hit on the counter-attack when we're good. And then, obviously, when we're having good possession of the ball, actually be threatening. I want the balls in the box. I want them to be having to defend. I want us to sort of... We can win in so many ways. I just want our mentality to be...
• 36:40
  as positive as it can be. Like Anthony Gordon picked the ball up in the first 20 minutes, our first real attack when he got the shot on goal. And I think in previous games, I think he's picked it up and thought, I'm going to be a bit safe here and pass backwards. Once he came on against Congo and had that great sort of effect with, I think he got two assists, he then suddenly picked the ball up. We got a bit of possession. He thought, I'm going to have a go here. We're on the outside, got to cross it.
• 37:05
  That's the kind of attitude we need, where you're going to look at you. There are moments in the game where you think, no, we need to keep possession. I'm not going to try and take someone on and lose it. But there are also moments when you say, right, I'm in the team to beat you. I'm in the team to get behind you. I'm in the team to shoot from here. I'm in the team for whatever I'm in the team for. Now's the moment to show it. Don't just be passive. Let's be proactive. And that's another thing Thomas Tuchel was...
• 37:29
  Really proactive, I thought, in the game. In making his decisions, making his changes. Yes, the tactical hydration break works brilliantly for managers. It's disgusting. But he was able to get in there, speak to the players, make tactical changes before... That was the criticism of Gareth Southgate that... Yeah, he wouldn't have done this. That we kind of, especially in that Italy final, not even the Spain final, when we're getting into those moments, we're in crucial moments, and you think, make a change, make something. You can see we're losing...
• 37:59
  impetus down one side of the pitch and it was always the other managers Mancini especially I think it was Mancini the Italian manager Mancini made the made the subs first made decisions first and suddenly we were always reacting was Thomas Tuchel in all the games really
• 38:18
  Whether I believe in the timing or not, he's still been the first to make a change. And I think you've got to take your hat off to him for that. I think you're spot on with what you said first and foremost. The way to beat them is stop at a source. So get out of them. Yeah, you've got to stop. That's the only way to stop it, is stop it. I mean, 100%. And then secondly, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but...
• 38:41
  I think we've got to start Mad Weekend. Why? Why don't you think you can believe it? And why? Because I just think...
• 38:53
  After watching him, I fully get a no-eyed victim. He does as he's told and he does his job. He tracks back, he gets forward. He can beat a man as well, so he does give us a bit of a threat. His final ball's not the best, but he works so hard going back and forward. Speaking out loud, I don't see why no-one can give Rashford a go on the right. I don't get this big left-winger, right-footer on the left-winger. It's just...
• 39:18
  stick to the side you're on cross balls I don't mind crosses I don't think Rashford's as comfortable over there as he is on the left which is probably I don't think
• 39:30
  the way these players have been developed. But I thought Saka had a good game. I thought he set the first goal up. Yeah, he did. Set the first goal up, dropped his shoulder. Over the whole time he was on the pitch, I think Matherwake would have been better than him. And I can't believe I'm saying that, but I think he would. I don't know. I don't think he's 100% right.
• 39:49
  Yeah, I agree, yeah. I think there's something missing. I don't think he's 100% right. Because when I've seen him at his best, he's frightening, Saka. And I only seen that one cross in that game where I thought, right, that's quality. It was an important one, though. It was really important. But I just think for this to only happen once in the whole time he was on the pitch, I thought he needs to offer more. And I think Madweka offers.
• 40:12
  at this stage now. I don't know what's up with him, but I don't think he's, I just don't think he's fired. Saka was in the team, not only because he's a top quality player and he did have the assist for the first one, but Thomas Tuchel knew going into that game that for 20 minutes, we were going to have to keep the ball under some severe pressure before we were able to then grow into the game.
• 40:29
  and Saka's better at that. Madweke's got his strengths, but Saka's better at keeping the ball in pressure in tough situations. And I think Gordon's better than Rashford, believe it or not, in them moments. Yeah, I get that. I understand that. I think that's where his team was selected, really. Those wide men, I think that's one of the reasons. Because knowing, especially for that first 20 minutes, we're going to have to take the ball
• 40:54
  under pressure of Mexicans running around trying to snap at our ankles, but the crowd. Do we all agree? They reckon that's 149 decibels, they said in that stage. They said the world shook. Do we all agree that Rashford, from our wide positions, is the biggest threat I think he is? I think he's the biggest goal threat out of all of them. Goal threat? Goal threat?
• 41:15
  Yeah, because Gordon doesn't score as many goals as he should. Saka can't score more, but he's... Yeah, I'd say Rashford is the biggest goal threat. I think that's what we need against Norway. We need goals. But I don't think he gives us enough defensively. I don't think he gives you enough going that way. But then do we expect... Do we need that much going back or do we have got two central defensive midfielders? Yeah, I do think we do now. Now you're getting to the... I didn't think we did early games when you're playing...
• 41:44
  group games and maybe even the Congo game, we were a little bit too negative maybe. But I think now you get to play against the top teams that can hurt you and punish you. I think you generally need two midfielders. No, I think we do that, that's what I'm saying. But then don't we go, right, the front four, we're getting at you. And I say the front four in meaning the two wingers and the central. So Bellingham is basically...
• 42:11
  the front four be Kane, Bellingham and then obviously it depends if you've got Saka and Gordon or do you go Rashford and Gordon or do you go Madweke and Gordon or do you because I think it's nailed on now, Gordon's starting I think the only change will be at right back and then the question is unless Keir starts Keir's on the phone as we speak funnily enough
• 42:38
  You know what, he's not even the president, he's not even the prime minister no more. We need Andy Burnham to make a call. Saying Rhys James might be fit. Was he at risk taking him as well? Because he's made out of paper mache. He is. He's a brilliant footballer, he's absolutely exceptional. Why is it what's up with him, Oz? He's a great footballer, I don't think he's as good as the right backs we've had in the past...
• 43:01
  Five or six years, like Kyle Walker. No, he's not. Trippier, even. I don't think he's given us... I think he's better than Trippier. He's not consistently given us that level. When I'm saying Trippier's better, I'm saying Trippier can defend better than Rhys James. Rhys James is great going forward on the ball. Rhys James is... I don't think he's that bad. Rhys James is...
• 43:22
  Not as bad as Trent defensively, but not as good as Trent attacking-wise. He's kind of a little bit... It's a crime. It's a crime. He's kind of a little bit of a softer, rounded Trent. It's a crime that he's not there. He must have been raising a glass when he saw Qantas. It's a crime that he's not there.
• 43:37
  It is literally a crime on English football. Trent Alexander-Arnold is not there. It was a surprise when Liv Rimento went down and we brought in Chalabar. Yeah. That was a surprise. I understand he was Chelsea manager and he obviously knows Chalabar and he knows the attitude and the personality he's getting. That's what makes you think it's more about not wanting his character in the squad, not wanting him in the squad, rather than his football.
• 44:06
  Can he be that badass, really? As a character? Really, though.
• 44:10
  I don't know him. He's best match with Bellingham though, isn't he? And he's a good vibe. I don't know him. I can't see him being that bad. But I just think that's... It's personal 100%, isn't it? No, I'm saying, sorry, you can be that bad. I just don't know. I don't know if he is. I don't know him. What do you mean you can be that bad? You can be a really... Give me an example. You can be... No, anyone can be a really negative influence on any squad or any room. Anyone can be a bad influence on a room. When you sat around... For instance, when we was... Evan and Roberto was having a...
• 44:39
  tough second or third season. And then you get people who are now aren't playing are over there on a table trying to ruin it. But you now create this negativity and atmosphere within a room. Did he question him? Did he question him in front of them? Yeah. So if you were managers giving you a talk and will you get, you'll know the negative one and will one of them go openly and go, why are you doing that?
• 45:05
  if they're brave enough, but they can also do it by just not trying that hard in training, even though they're given a job to do, or, you know, being late on occasions, or, one of the thing is, is being in the ear of somebody, you know, like, for instance, I get what you're
• 45:20
  You know, like being on someone's shoulders. And he was on someone's shoulders saying, don't believe, you know, because you just said him and Jude are close. What if, rumours go around, there is a strong influence on Jude and he's in his ears, he might be able to say at any point. He's such a good footballer, that was. He is, but if, again, I don't know him. I'm speculating here. I do not know.
• 45:43
  Trent himself, but if he is a player that would be negative in a Thomas Tuchel squad, that would then be on someone's shoulder saying, I can't believe the manager is asking you to do that. Oh, I wouldn't believe that. Oh, he's asking you to do too. He doesn't believe it. Whatever the negative comments are, you know, we've all got this devil on our shoulder and our head. But in my lifetime, I have never seen a right-back influence a game of football like him.
• 46:08
  in my whole life. I mean, I'm talking ever. Even when you talk about the likes of Cafu and people like that. I haven't seen a right-back influence a game like that lad could. The passing range from free kicks, just everything about him going for what he can do with a ball. Oh, I know he was annoying as hell. Horrible. Absolutely horrible playing against us, but you've just got to roll down and go, that boy is something. But in this competition, you're going to come up against some of the best wingers out there.
• 46:35
  and it's common knowledge that defender is this strength. I think that's a bit of a myth.
• 46:43
  I don't think he's a bad defender as people make out. You don't be at that level of football and you're a bad defender. He's not as good as a Gary Neville going backwards. I get it. But instantly, he's not a bad defender. You don't win the things he's won and play in a team consistently under Jurgen Klopp and you're a bad defender. He just wouldn't have had it. You can do. You can do. You think he's a bad defender or? I don't think he's a good defender.
• 47:14
  I watched him play for Real Madrid this season. Again, I watched it in person. He's good on the ball, but he keeps getting himself in poor positions and he keeps finding... He's now got a really nice habit in his sort of world.
• 47:31
  of being out of position so that he's not having to come up against wingers. Because now he'll be, well, I tried to step in there and do something. And now I'm not, to be fair, he did at Liverpool. And Canate would always come over and make the tackles and cover. And that was fine because that was how Liverpool set up to allow him to go into positions. And they knew Canate was going to cover him. Whereas I don't think he's getting the exact same cover as yet at Real Madrid. And he is out. He's a brilliant player.
• 47:58
  But I don't know if that's why people have tried to play him centre midfield because I don't know if he wants to defend. So much more responsibility in the middle of the park. You get caught out of position in the middle, you're costing goals. I think he got caught out when Southgate gave him a go there for England. Is he good enough to play on the right wing? He would, if we were playing 4-4-2.
• 48:24
  And he could play a right midfield place like Beckham did in a 4-4-2. Is he quick enough?
• 48:31
  He's a decent enough pace. He's not slow. He's not... Either way, he's an option we should have had there. He can't play on the right wing of an outside. He doesn't play it like a sack of wood. So you can't play him there. And you don't want to play him right back. So they tried to play him centre mid where one of the three doesn't seem to work. If we were still playing 4-4-2, he'd probably be playing the David Beckham role as a right midfielder right now. Do you still think he should be there?
• 49:01
  I think I'd have probably called him up once Livermanto went down. I'm looking around for other full-backs. But if Thomas Tuchel deems that he's somebody he can't have in his squad... I'd love to ask him why he's that bad.
• 49:14
  then we have to trust in Tuka because he's pretty much done the majority of things right so far. Look where we are. We're in the quarterfinals of the World Cup. Yes, we had a couple of bumps, but it's a quarterfinal game that we can actually win. We should win. And if we do win, I would fancy us to beat Argentina in the semis. It's just about that one. Yeah. We're just coming up against Freaks.
• 49:37
  And that's what this is about. It's about the freaks. Because it's not about... If you take Haaland, but it's not like they can even say that about us because what they'll say is, or you take Kane out of your team, I think we could stick Ivan Toni up front and where's those scoring goals? Because they're coming from all over the pitch. You take Haaland out of Norway and you take Messi out of Argentina, I'm sorry they're struggling real bad.
• 50:02
  Real bad. I know Adi Kane's brilliant and he's our talisman. He's our nine. He's our captain. I agree with that. But you can stick Haventon and he will slot two. And so will Olly Watkins. I think it hurts us, not being in the team, but I think it hurts them other two teams more. I'll agree with that. And on the flip side of that, Portugal are out. Ronaldo. Sad back. There's talk about the superstars. Yeah, see them finish. Sad seeing them upset. Just sad seeing them upset for me.
• 50:33
  Hardest work on football I think this ever didn't bother me that you don't love Ronaldo do you? I don't hate him and I when it comes to Ronaldo Messi arguments I'm
• 50:43
  I find it hard. People always say, if you're not saying Messi is the best ever, then you're wrong and you don't know football. And I'm like, well, Ronaldo's a couple of years older than Messi still. So, you know, we forget that. Ronaldo was still flying. Ronaldo was still considered flying at 38, just about to turn 39. He's 41 now. That last little bit makes a hell of a difference. And we're witnessing it in front. And Ronaldo is...
• 51:06
  made himself what he is. His desire to be the best is crazy. He's gone across all different leagues to try himself in all these different moments. So I think you have to take your hat off to him and respect that more than maybe what Messi tried to do. But you also can't pretend that Messi isn't a joke when it comes to actual ability. He'll be gutted because in the same way Neymar is gutted, they felt that they were going to win a World Cup. He should have been talking about in the same breath.
• 51:37
  No, but Neymar was crying, wasn't he, after the game? Because he's now realised he's not going to play in the World Cup again. And then, did you see all the Brazil legends watching the game that have all won one and two World Cups? He wanted to be part of that and probably... He was the hope of the nation for years, wasn't he? I just think. He felt that he would win it. That's why he cried getting in the squad. He wanted to feel like he is. That's Ronaldo now. Yes, he won the Euros, Ronaldo, but...
• 51:58
  He wanted to, especially after Messi's won a World Cup. He just don't feel Neymar should be spoken. He was never going to win one. You should have Nines or your Messi's or your Ronaldo's. I think there's a certain calibre of player. I think he had the potential to do it, but he just went. He was never going to win. Were you talking Neymar now? Neymar. Sorry, Neymar. I thought we were talking Ronaldo. In his early years, he did look like he had the capability to push into that bracket of top players, but then hasn't matched it with the World Cup. I just think it's so clear. I think Cristiano Ronaldo is the hardest working football at the world.
• 52:28
  ever seen I think that cannot be denied or disputed and I think Messi's probably the most gifted footballer the world's ever seen and for me R9's just the best of everything Who's more technically gifted Neymar or Ronaldo when he first came onto the scene Messi does things without thinking it's in him
• 52:52
  And by the way, Ronaldo's doing crazy step-overs. He came in as a winger and developed himself into a number nine. That's quite hard to do. He developed us. He works so hard. I just think he's the hardest-working football in the world. I think he potentially has the right to say he's probably the hardest-working athlete sports I've ever seen because he's... When you listen to him say what he says, I'm not well. I'm sick. Don't be like Cristiano. I've watched him say that. The words come out of his mouth.
• 53:19
  And you just think, wow, you must be so driven. Do you worry for people like that after the sport's gone? I said that yesterday. What does he put his focus on? He's going to have to go into management maybe. Even though he's a billionaire, he can't stop.
• 53:36
  He's too obsessed. Listen, he's got an exit strategy 100% because people like him don't do well in life after you go away from sports. So he will have an exit strategy. And he was, unfortunately, he was never going to win the World Cup, in my opinion, because Roberto Martinez was managing. No, Jim. Yeah. Roberto's took Belgium's best team. And six years of taking their golden generation of players. And then he's just had a good three years with...
• 54:04
  It's a Portugal and I just never felt it. Surely he's finished now. I think he'll turn up a Palace. Palace? Somewhere like that. I think Roberto Martinez will turn up somewhere like that. A Palace or a Bournemouth or somewhere of that ilk. It'll be a club that's on the build, but it is solidified in the Premier League, if that makes sense. Yeah. Does that make sense? A club like that, a Palace or a Bournemouth. Yeah, but I mean... He's not getting a big job.
• 54:34
  Well, they are big jobs. I think it's a Premier League team. It's a big job. The big job, but like, you ain't getting a Villa. You ain't getting a, let's just say, you ain't getting a United job. Yeah. He was set up for, I think he's set up more for international football, his management style as well. Really? Really?
• 54:53
  Yeah, because... Not be seeing the players day in, day out. And only having a... Yeah, and... Having them in short doses. Yeah, and kind of being able to pick on who's fit and who's available and you've got to select... You know, you've got your country that are... You might have a squad of players this one international weekend. You can tell them all that...
• 55:16
  Yeah, I'm going to give you a game and you're going to be in my plans long time and then one of them might get injured next time and then you've not got a decision to make over which one of them you're going to pick. And I think it's been suited for him. I mean, the big decision he's had to make this time was just whether to play Ronaldo every minute of every game at 41 or to try and use him as an impact player. And I think he got that one wrong, to be honest. Of course he has. So was Ronaldo part of the problem why Portugal went out in the end then?
• 55:44
  That's his decision, not for Ronaldo. Why not just to make that decision? It depends how you look at it. When you say part of the problem, Ronaldo's just playing football. He's picked to go out there and try and do his best. I think he's better suited to doing that in bursts at the highest level at the minute. So when you're saying, I don't blame Ronaldo for it at all.
• 56:06
  I just think the bigger decisions have to be made. You've got Bruno Fernandes in behind who just seems like he's playing with the handbrake on. One of the best midfielders in the world. Because he's not taking the pens and he's not running around. He's not able to make assists. Somebody who might want to make an assist too isn't as pacey. They've got...
• 56:25
  Top quality players. Basically the manager's got up. Vettina and John Neves and Ruben Neves can't get a game. Bernardo Silva off the bench all the time. How are you leaving Bernardo Silva on the bench? Because of the squad. They've got a ridiculous squad.
• 56:40
  But you might need to not play Ronaldo from the start. Listen, you've got to have the bollocks. Just go, listen, son, you're sitting this one out for 60 minutes. You're coming on the last half hour. And these lads are going to play together. I'm going to create a midfield that is dynamic and works for us. It's not about you. And I don't feel the power of being brave enough to say that to him.
• 57:01
  So I'd say Portugal's, if you think about PSG, and they've got Vitinha and João Neves, and whoever you have the other one has, Zaire Emery, or you've got Fabian Ruiz, they're not the most dynamic of midfielders, but they're not the most dynamic of midfielders.
• 57:16
  They are players that keep the ball and move and pass and find spaces. But then when they get into certain positions, PSG look amazing because when these midfielders that dominate possession and positional play on the pitch decide it's now time to kill a pass, they're playing it through to people with ridiculous pace. Whereas in Portugal, they're keeping the ball and they're doing all this. Then you look up and Ronaldo's not got that pace anymore. Yeah.
• 57:41
  And I don't know if Ramos does who would come in, but at this point, you now need to have firepower. Or you go, what's Ronaldo's strength like at Torquain? And you have to say, how are we going to score goals? What's our strength for its strength at the minute? Probably crossing is one of his things. So let's start putting crosses in. They don't do that because the style of play is not matching up to what would get the best out of the centre forward.
• 58:07
  and that's what the best teams do. So France play to make sure that they're front four, get the ball in right areas. The fullbacks don't really overlap. They'll get to a certain point. Koundé might do inner laps so that you can still give the wide men wits. You try and get a bappy on the ball. I mean, they're a joke. They really are. Are we saying that they're going to be in the final? I'd be amazed if they're not. But so who are they playing? France v...
• 58:38
  Spain just won the night. I like Morocco though, yeah. But you'd still expect France to win that? Morocco will score. Spain v Belgium now. You'd expect a Spain-France semi.
• 59:00
  I'm not sure, you know, Belgium are deceivingly decent. They just find a way. They're horrible. They just keep finding a way. And Romelu. They're horrible. You know what I mean? They've got a big centre-forward who knows how to play football, can hold the ball up. Then you've got quality in and around them. They use him. Spurnally. Yeah. Like Ronaldo should be used. Ronaldo, yeah. The way Romelu Kaku comes on and gets the best. It's mad anyhow the manager is using him spurnally now.
• 59:25
  is showing basically Roberto was the manager of Belgium and now he's the manager and it looks like the mistakes have been made again look the same players that use Spurnley it's known when to use them, when not I just don't think you can have personalities in teams that are bigger than the manager or bigger than the team it's not going to work and from the start of this whole thing I said whoever beats France wins it for me that front four, front five is just frightening Have Spain got a chance? No
• 59:54
  they have a chance because they are a team of quality players. I would not have them as favourites.
• 1:00:04
  I think... I'll be surprised if we get the semis. Would you? Yeah. I'll be surprised if they beat Belgium. Fair enough. I just can't see them. Can't see anyone... I can see that being a draw. Can't see anyone going toe-to-toe with France and winning. Paraguay is as horrible as that game was. How they never got a yellow card that game, I do not know. And France ended up with two.
• 1:00:25
  But that is how you try and beat France, as horrible as it was. I don't know if you can... Spain haven't got that. I don't think Spain have got that. I don't think Spain have got that. So, no, I don't think that's... So we have to get past Norway and then we have to get past, basically, who have Argentina got? It'll be decided. Well, Argentina play Egypt and Colombia play Switzerland tonight. Colombia shouldn't be overlooked, you know. They've been all right, haven't they? They've been all right.
• 1:00:54
  If Argentina will do them, though. Yeah, Argentina's top team. Maybe. You just... These legends and these icons, these monsters, they can only go on for so long. And it's... We just... Were you watching the game Saturday? What time's kick-off Saturday? 10 o'clock at night. Oh, that's perfect.
• 1:01:11
  I haven't decided yet I'm not working as well I won't be at all you're going back to Benny? I'll try yeah brilliant I'll try brilliant you know what yeah I could do a bit of that but I don't know when we'll watch it be with the kids so why I don't know
• 1:01:28
  Good time. Ultimately, we've just got to... Saturday night, 10 o'clock. Yeah, it's going to happen. That screams of golf in the afternoon. Yeah, it does. Getting ready for the game from about four. Perfect. Sounds like a plan. Yeah. Stay home. I'm going to the clubhouse after the game. Stay home and we could be together. We've all tried to look too far ahead. Do you think if England did meet France in the final, that we'd have a chance? It's a 50-50 amount.
• 1:01:51
  They would be favourites, rightly so. But in a final, and in any game, you can find a way. You've seen the minnows, not meaning we're actual minnows, but you've seen teams turn around the odds in a final before. And we've got,
• 1:02:11
  Firepower, we've got big game players. We've shown there against Mexico, albeit Mexico's attack is different from France's, but we've got the character for it. We've shown some great character the other day.
• 1:02:24
  If he sets up right against France, we can do really well. Because let me tell you, they can be got at. They can be got at. That's the hope for me. If you can defensively do good. The big thing for England is we have the work rate down either side. And I think that's where France will penetrate you. It's down the wings.
• 1:02:45
  No one's really going to do us straight through the middle of us because we have such a good, strong spine in the likes of Bellingham, Rice. I just think that the spine is strong and we've got players that track, that can defend that positionally, always in good place in the centre of the park. But I think these two wingers that are over the side, they give us extra defence. I think it comes down to aura. I don't mean that in the right way. Yeah, you think people are going to be in aura in the likes of Mbappe and shit like that.
• 1:03:13
  Yeah, I think we've got to get on the ball and know. We're good enough. Yeah, and stick out, like I constantly see Jude Bellingham do. He's got brilliant strengths, he's got some things he probably... What's his weakness as us? Because when you're doing that, I just think you sense there's a weakness in him.
• 1:03:33
  He can get emotionally wrapped up. You think he's got a red card in him? Yes. Yeah, definitely. I thought he would have got booked against Max. He can be emotional. It's amazing to see how emotional he can get on the pitch, which is great, but then how calm he is talking after the game. Yeah, yeah. How good his interviews are and stuff. There's three players on the booking. Bellingham is one of them. Rice. Definitely Rice is another one.
• 1:03:56
  O'Reilly O'Reilly's the third one I was talking about he was a lucky boy with the you see his elbow no no I don't think if he catches him I wouldn't have that to prop an elbow don't remember that I was in Benadol to be fair you remember when the third goal went in I don't remember every instance I thought we'd scored three when it was I thought it was 3-1
• 1:04:21
  Cameras didn't really pick up on it at first, which probably he was saying the little runt who was like going... Ah, he was horrible then. Yeah, I think that is who you're talking about. But yeah, he did do that, but he didn't catch him. But if he did... That'll be big for us then. We've got lucky there and it'll be big for us. Someone's going to miss the semi. It's going to be a big play to miss the semi, I'm telling you now. I hope not. Which one do you want to lose? We need our strongest players. I don't think Kane's being booked. So Bellingham's being booked.
• 1:04:51
  Why are we... I thought once you got past the group stage...
• 1:04:55
  It resets. Bellingham got booked here in Congo. DR Congo. Okay. So what happens if, ooh, okay, so if he gets booked in a semi, he misses the final? No, it resets again after this quarterfinals. Oh, okay. So that people don't pick up a second semi, second card in a semifinal like Gazza did that time, even though we didn't make the final. To make sure that you don't miss the final of it. No, yeah, sorry, yeah. It's only a 19. She's trying to show his memory there, wasn't she? So he is a Gazza.
• 1:05:24
  OK, so what are we saying then? What for England? Norway What's the predictions? Yeah
• 1:05:32
  I'm going 2-1 England I'd take that I really would I'd take 1-0 off someone's arse I don't care what it goes I'm going to go 3-2 again 3-2 I was thinking 2-1 but I don't want to do the same as you so I'm going to go 3-2 you can have 2-1 I'll say 1-0 I'm going to go 3-1 England oh yeah that's a more comfortable I was thinking 3-1 and then thought how many things are you thinking because you keep saying I'm thinking 2-1 my thought was processing I was thinking 3-1 and then thought
• 1:06:02
  I think if you stop Haaland... I've got to allow for Haaland to score two, because he might well do. I think if he gets on the score sheet, we're in bad trouble. I think we're in a lot of trouble. If he's confident against our boys... That's another thing with players who know him. Would he be as confident? Would he be as brash and as arrogant? I think he loves that, mate. He loves it even more. Because I know him and Stonesy are close. And I just think, does he want to do Stonesy like that? I'm just trying to play on anything.
• 1:06:28
  He would, because he wants to win. Yeah. He's a winner. I think he'll be in his... Do you want to do your teammates? Come up against your teammates, you want to do them? I'd want to do them more, yeah. When you see Bernardo Silva and Rogi in yesterday's game, they were having a little bit of a... Yeah, they were angry there. Yeah, I was loving that, mate. You come up against Jags and you're playing for another... You want to do them and you... What do you mean do them? I don't want to like two-fuss them. No, not two-fuss them, but you know, you want to score and have a laugh at them. Yeah, hell yeah, yeah. You are one.
• 1:06:55
  How can you be on the pitch as a footballer in an opposition team and be like, well, I'm not going to play as well or I'm not going to do as well because... He'd be one of these in the football giving hugs to all those mates. I'd never want to fight one of these. You didn't hate everyone you fought against, did you? I'd drive myself to really not like them. I've fought two people in my life who I didn't want to hate. Did you? Yeah. Am I allowed to ask who?
• 1:07:22
  One was Danny Price in the NBA final that I lost on a bloody point, which I thought I won, but didn't want to hurt him. That's because you held back? I wasn't, but I just wasn't. I thought I won anyway. And then in the pros, it sounds bad this, but I didn't want to hurt him. But I really liked Danny McIntosh. Yeah? I didn't want to hurt him. And that affects your mind? Flattened him, in fact.
• 1:07:50
  but I didn't want to hit him I just thought someone thought I like you I can get on with you and I try and really I wind people up so much to hate me to hate you right so I was really good at that I need an excuse yeah yeah so you are going to hate me you're going to really hate me when we when we lock on but yeah
• 1:08:14
  You were brilliant at that. Yeah, I'm brilliant at one. It's just not how football works. I mean, you can dislike other people and you definitely want to win. Yeah, of course. If I'm playing against other people, if I'm playing against you, I want to win as much because we're going to go back to our clubs in the summer or we're going to be, you know, I'm going to see you again and you're always going to know you had that over me. Do you know what I always think of the Ronaldo and Rooney situation? When they went back to you and I laughed at he'd done him and he'd give them the little wink, you just got your sense off.
• 1:08:43
  Yeah, but Rooney, quite honest about it, is insane. Look, I probably would have tried to do the same to get him sent off. He wouldn't. I think proper players understand that. Whether he does or he didn't, Wayne knew, if I sulk now, I'm going to look really stupid. Ronaldo's going to have this. Cristiano's going to have this over me. So they're the reasons, one of the reasons why you want to beat your mate so much so that
• 1:09:07
  You can rub it in his face if you want, but you can also just nod knowing, I know, I've beat you, I've done you. So it's different with us. We'd want to win more, honestly. Do you think that's changed now, though, a little bit? I found it refreshing when Bernardo Silva was like going in Rodri's face because a lot of them are quite pallied out these days, aren't they? Across teams. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that, I think it's always been there. Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:36
  I think it's good to see that that rivalry is good. I mean, for you and you're watching your players from your country, you want to know that they've got that passion. You want to know that this means more to them and more to your country than their friendship. Did you have any mates when you were playing for heaven? Still not got any mates. Did you have any other footballers who you played against who were mates? When you say mates, I mean, I grew up with... Any Copites?
• 1:10:06
  I grew up knowing Stephen Warnock from when we were kids. Okay. Yeah, but an amazing... Do you speak to him once a month, once a week? No. Okay. Good on you. No, I made sure I only had mates in my team. Yeah. What about in other clubs? Because you've been in the football scene for so many years. Surely you've had mates who play for different clubs. I do, and there's a handful I keep in touch with. But, again, it's...
• 1:10:35
  Because you come across that many people in the game, you're not going to make mates with them all. It's different. It's my bad days, go, you know. They don't speak to each other. Say people go into a work environment and you work in a building for three years and there's, I don't know, you come across, including staff, you come across, you know, 80 people and the turnover is constantly moving and yes, there's about...
• 1:10:59
  Ten of you actually stayed together long term, but the rest is constantly moving, especially the time I was at Everton. It's sort of your workmates. Thinking of players, so when you played Feli and he'd gone to United and you were still at Everton,
• 1:11:12
  Yeah. I'd speak to him on the pitch, but I wouldn't speak to him before or after. And wind him up. I'd try and stand on his toes and stuff, you know, that was my kind of job. Would you just laugh at you? Yeah. He'd just try and swipe at me, yeah. See, that's the kind of thing, because you've been playing with them for, you've played with them for like three, four years, whatever he was at RGF for. Yeah, but again, you're going into work and,
• 1:11:34
  You're not best mates with everyone. You can be such different people. And then so you end up making your friends outside of work. Some of them you make friends in work. So, you know, I'm still close with Hibbo. Still close with Nick Chadwick from the youth team days. Another couple of the youth team players I'm still friends with.
• 1:11:55
  So there you go, pick up your friendships. This episode of Outside the Box is sponsored by Bellam and Joinsen Solicitors. We're delighted to bring on BLJ as our first ever sponsors of the podcast. And especially with some of the opinions that Ozzy and Tony come up with, it probably seems sensible to bring a legal partner on board first. For more than 200 years, Bellam and Joinsen have been helping people across Liverpool for all of their life decisions. Whether it's expert family law, conveyancing, wills and probates, or sorting disputes, their team is there when it matters most.
• 1:12:23
  A lot has changed since 1821, but their commitment to helping people has never waned. Bell Lamb and Joyce and Solicitors, by your side since 1821. To find out more, visit bljsolicitors.co.uk. Right, yeah, Everton have made some moves already this summer. Hayden Hackney has signed for Middlesbrough. I think it looks like we're getting Tyreek George back. So Tyreek George has done, Merlin Rolls done, so there's two, and then this young boy, I haven't seen much of him. I was going to say, do you know much about him, Oz?
• 1:12:53
  Not an awful lot, if I'm being completely honest. It's one of them that you watch a bit of the championship and you see flashes of players. But I just spoke to a couple of Leeds fans who said they've watched a lot of the championship and they've seen him of late and say he's an impressive young player. He seems like quite a progressive central midfielder. He's not somebody you would put in as a sitter. More of a...
• 1:13:21
  Maybe more of a Dewsbury Hall kind of. Yeah, I'm hearing all round really. He makes forward passes. Yeah, but he can also get box to box, but he's not a number 10. I think he's flashing back to an old all round midfielder. The replacement for Garner?
• 1:13:41
  I don't think replacement. I hope not replacement. Not for Jimmy Gannett or Idrissett. Oh, Idrissett. He's not sound of contract. No, I don't know, because it depends what you're going to ask Jimmy to do. Are you going to ask him to sit a little bit more? Oh, Jimmy plays. Jimmy starts every week. Yeah, Jimmy definitely. If this young lad is going to be an all-round player, then...
• 1:14:01
  It gives us better options, doesn't it? It gives us good balance. And I think as well, as good as he is in the championship, I think it takes a little bit of time to get... It's very rare that you hit the ground running. Yeah, I don't think he starts. It's a different machine. I don't know about that. He might start. I just think we need a replacement for the Giuseppe Garnicke if he's not there next season. So I'm thinking you need energy and legs because he has been so important.
• 1:14:28
  in our team. I can't see a Moyes team without, you know, two, two sisters. I know James Garner gets involved, but he does sit primarily. Yeah. Jimmy plays it. I know, but he has played one sitter and two number eights ahead. We did that for, for, for a long time with, with Moyes at one point. But I just think having spoken to Moyes a couple of months back over, I think,
• 1:14:54
  over this kind of thing. He, he wants to find the best players in the championship, best young players like Everton Ware in, in, in my time when he was finding your Cahills and he was finding your Jags's and your Lescots and your, and your Baines as your Stones. These, yeah, Stones, these players that have broke through in, in,
• 1:15:13
  in the championship or league one. And now you can see the potential. Like he was furious that, I mean, it was happened before he came back to heaven, but he would have been in the, the shout for Morgan Rogers, a player that was breaking through. I think it was at Middlesbrough as well. And then Aston Villa came in and grabbed him because they sort of, that's the type of player that Moise, look at Jared Bowen. Yeah. He was at Hull. Moise went and got him and saw what he could be.
• 1:15:39
  So these are the type of players, so if this fits in right and this is the next young man that is capable of that, then this is the process of getting us back to being like Evan and character within the squad because I think that's what we need.
• 1:15:54
  Yeah, well, I got fed up of us signing England's retirement home. Over the years, it'd be like Theo Walcott, Ashley Young or whatever. I'm not saying they were bad players, but it's nice to see us going back to what you're saying, actually scouting and picking up players. Yeah, you have to have trust and you also have to have a bit of balance with regards to experience. When I got on the team, we still had...
• 1:16:16
  Weir and Stubbs and Dunk and that in the squad, as you were bringing me and some of the younger lads through, the signers I've just said, a bit later on, there was good balance. So right now, if we are finding these young players, because Garner's still young, he's young, bringing in George, bringing in Diblin, bringing in these players. Merlin Roll. Merlin Roll. You've still got to have a little bit of experience around there. So we need to make sure that we secure those players as well. But...
• 1:16:42
  I like the fact that we're actually making early moves. I like the fact that business is trying to get done. We're identifying targets. We're not waiting until the end of pre-season when someone's spent the whole pre-season with someone else. We're trying to make moves now. It's a good sign for the club top to bottom. I'm happy to see the back and the manager.
• 1:17:03
  You're backing David Moyes and that's the way for it. We've seen what David Moyes can do. David Moyes is backed. David Moyes can get European football. David Moyes can win European trophies. For me, that's the top and bottom of it. I want to win. I do not want to be in relegation fights. I want to be up to the league and winning. And if you back him, I believe that's what he's going to do. Well, he was the favourite for the Scotland job. Do you think we're going to keep him? That's going to be an odd one for him to just...
• 1:17:27
  I think that's just come a little bit too early for him. You think? I think he felt he wasn't being backed, he would. I think, yeah, maybe. But if he doesn't go for this now, he doesn't know how long that job might take to pop back up again if he did ever want to do that. Yeah, but I still think he's a day-to-day manager at the minute. And I think... Does it do something to them as going international manager? Is it? Frees up a lot of time. Does it?
• 1:17:52
  Obviously, John, you get to scout a lot more and you go to a lot of games. How old is he now, Moise?
• 1:17:59
  Don't check his Wikipedia page every day. What the hell? I don't know. Whatever his age is, take 10 years off it because he's still very much in the football world. It's not like he's a Harry... I'm trying to think of managers. He's not like Roy Hodgson or Sam Allardyce where you've been old and out of football for the period. He's been in football constantly and I think that keeps him young.
• 1:18:25
  Yeah. I was doing my maths then and he's probably early 60s, maybe mid 60s. Because I think he came to us at like 38, 39, 40 in 2002. He had 24 years onto that. So 63 or 44-ish. In the 60s. But he's a young, I know he's in age years,
• 1:18:42
  he's older, but he's been in football for that long and he hasn't left for a long period of time. And I think that's what I've kept him young. I don't think he's finished. I just think, you know, in his head, is there a thought of, oh, because I don't look at him and think, he's not a manager where I think, the football's lost him. Tactically, I've seen it with managers who have come over the years and I think, you've lost it now. He's progressed by keeping people young around him. So his staff are always, you know, not long out of football, still connected, like Baines.
• 1:19:12
  And yeah, I like, I hope he, you know, I'm desperate for him to bring success. But these are the signs. These are all the signs that I was seeing at some point in his first tenure that he's looking for these young, hungry players that are going to move forward with the club. They're not at the club for a stepping stone. We got into a habit of signing players that were only using us as a stepping stone. I don't mind that, us. Because it means you have to play well for us.
• 1:19:38
  Yeah, but then you leave a big hole when you leave. Oh, I get it. Because we also need these players. We also need players that are going to see us as having success with us. Yeah, but that's doing well for Bournemouth. It's doing well for Brighton. It's doing well for... Brentford. Brentford. Come to us. How many trophies a Brentford won? No, I know that. How many trophies a Brentford won?
• 1:19:59
  Palace Yeah Palace have just won They're all getting into Europe I just want to get into Europe I want to finish in the league In a good position I'm just saying It's good to try and find players That want to win with us Rather than want to have a stepping stone It's like Kante didn't go to Leicester And I'm going to go to Leicester Forever He wants to bet in Leicester And then De Mardes These players They go to a club And hopefully Everton Are going to get back to that stage Where we You come to us Now that's your destination But there's a difference in that Because of like Look at the likes of Jolene Lescott
• 1:20:28
  There's a difference between coming in and being told and knowing, I'm only coming in as a stepping stone. I'm going to come in, play there for two years and then go. And there's a difference between Hackney who's coming in now, don't know where his career is going to progress to, but your Lescots who came in to be as good as they can be with us and make us good. And along the way, they've now attracted the attention from other people who then go, come play from us. And now you go, what?
• 1:20:51
  Do you think he knows you? So, Lescott never joined us and Hackney should not be joining us and all these players joining us as a stepping stone. They're joining us to make us better and if it progresses for them along the way, great, but if they come in as a stepping stone, so people are telling the likes of Lukaku and Kevin RLS and these players, just come and play for those for 18 months and if you do well, you'll be able to go on and then that's in their mind before they've even come. They should be coming to make us better and better.
• 1:21:16
  So would Eugene Keenan and Juice be all signed for us to be at Everton forever? Do you think Jimmy Garner signed for Everton to be at Everton forever? I think that's got to be your mentality when you come in, yeah? Would you say no? I think that's got to be your mentality. And then as you get your success, and if you show what you're capable of doing, then a move will naturally progress. If Everton are getting into Europe, them two players are happy.
• 1:21:40
  If Everton aren't getting into Europe and Everton aren't up fighting in the top half of the league, then players are going to move on. This is my point, though. I don't mind players coming to it and going, I'll get you into that top four or five. And if they want to go, you know what? Leg it, fuck off. I'm not bothered. But if you're coming into our football club, you've got to be wanting to fight to get up that league. I don't want someone coming into the football club who's 36, 37 and goes,
• 1:22:06
  and it'll stop a little break just before I'm done that's the worst signing I believe you could make don't get me wrong I'm going to completely contradict myself now I'd take that fella who was playing for was it Mexico? I was going to say Cape Verde you talking about that goalkeeper that went for 20,000 followers 25 million Raul Jimenez Mexican fella he's just gone back to Wolves he's playing in the championship he's just gone back to Wolves but
• 1:22:35
  That can be changed in a little... Up front, we've obviously got an issue. We need a goalscorer. We need a proven goalscorer. Or someone, the other two lads can learn off or help them in some way or another. I don't know. So I don't mind, like last year, would I have minded bringing in a Vardy for a season? I 100% would have done that at the time. I'd have liked that. But I don't think it fits the model. And I get it. I do get it. But you need goals. Just get them quick.
• 1:23:01
  Just, I don't care. The strikers can be a little bit different. Everywhere else, I think that model fits. I just think the likes of a Dewsburyall and even a Garner now can't have been signing for us, saying, well, I'm only going to stay until... I don't think they're saying that. I think it's got to be, I'm going to be part of making this club great. Not, I'm going to be here for the next two years. Hopefully greatness happens while I'm here, but I'm only staying for two years before I leave. But they aren't signing for the club that's in a relegation fight every season.
• 1:23:28
  because they think they're better than that. And so do Shuggs, they are. Yeah, but that's not us. Well, we're saying that's not us anymore. It's not now. I know, but it has been for how many seasons. Jimmy Garner's been involved in how many relegation fights. Just the Garner game's been involved in how many relegation fights now. These players that we're getting... The club makes a difference, though, because Garner went and played for PSG and then came back. The club has an effect on you, and you want to bring success to this football club. And I just think I'm bringing in a young player, hungry players like Acne,
• 1:23:57
  is a great sign moving forward. Obviously, they saw enough in George to want to bring him back and see the potential in him. That seems... Because he's a goal threat. I like that. Defenders, what are you worried about? We've got Jadda Brantford to come back. We just need him to stay fit. If he stays fit, he's a soft-class defender. He's not fit. I think we need two full-backs. Definitely.