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Derren Brown and the Bobby Kennedy Experiment · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Win Insurance, Get.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I'm a check out Both Chance, Get your Things the Adult. Hey, everybody,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: And I'm Olivia Hidar and.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: We are your hosts this week. This is a free episode.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Enjoy it, everybody. It's it's kind of spawned from the
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: last two bonus episodes we did. We did back to
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: back because uh, my schedule dictated that we must put
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: up two bonus episodes in the way.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: So you know, we can't get enough. You can't get
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: enough of one episode of Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Like, no, no, you gotta. Honestly, it's all I want
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: to do now is watch episodes of Conspiracy Theory with
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Jesse Ventura. And yeah, we covered last week an episode
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: about Manchurian candidates.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, still still a title that I have issues with.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is incorrectly defined on Conspiracy Theory with Jesse
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Ventura as programmed assassins. And that is not what those
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: movies are about.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: No, I mean yeah, I mean, like just not in
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the way that they taught Anyway, it's a specific thing.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying. The micherink is specific.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that comes up in that
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: episode is the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, which is
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: a thing we've done an episode about and we're doing
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: another episode about it today, but not in its entirety.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: We're folkocusing on one theory as it pertains to the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, and one very particular incident
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the theory about Robert F. Kennedy's assassination,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: which is Darren Brown's episode of a TV show called
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: The Experiments right where he tries to reproduce the acts
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: of Sirhan Sirhan. Basically, Yes, and it's a thing. It's
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: a thing I've mentioned on this podcast a lot, so
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: it's fitting that we're going to do an episode about it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Which it's a thing you can watch on YouTube.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: We'll link yeh, it's up there.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: But we should talk about Darren Brown first. Did you
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: have any familiarity with him before we started doing this episode.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I had, only I had not really seen anything of
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: his like in totality, you know, but I was aware
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of him as as an individual just through a few
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: of his stunts. I'd seen a couple things that were
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: not related to like the YouTube that he had done
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: like in Los Angeles. But but yeah, no, not not particularly.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: But I did for the episode watch several a few
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: different things just to kind of get more of a
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: clear picture of what kind of entertainer he is.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had only seen the Netflix specials before this.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: He's got three Netflix specials, which we'll talk about in
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: a minute. But beyond that, I didn't realize how far
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: back his history of doing this kind of stuff goes.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's huge in Britain when when you when
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you look him up, like I was looking through like
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: reviews and forums about his older stuff, and he is
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: he's extremely well known in Britain like that. He's like
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: one of their biggest magicians.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like David IQ.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I've seen him described as the David Blaine of England,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: and I don't think that's completely accurate.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean David.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Blaine has more physical stunt. Yes, I can't picture Darren
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Brown having himself suspended above Time Square in Rice or whatever.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: The fuck.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that that comparison, like as
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: far as like the actual stunts themselves, or the or
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: the illusions or whatever that they do are comparable, but
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I would say like as a career arc and also
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: as the kind of performer that they both seem to be.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Uh that that that was a comparison that came to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: my mind while I was watching all this stuff, because
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: you know, David Blaine started out doing you know, close
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: up magic and a lot of a lot of street magic.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: That was his like that was his big thing. It
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: became like almost a joke, and then transitioned into these
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: more elaborate things that required a lot more more production
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: work and a lot more setups and became a lot
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: more easily noticeable as being kind of phony and where.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: And Darren Brown, you know, he hasn't done gotten in
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the physical direction, but you know, he started out doing
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: close up magic, car tricks and stuff and has kind
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: of transitioned to doing now these very elaborate production heavy
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: psychological based tricks which basically feel like prank shows at
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: this point, Like it's just I transitioned.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like with some of his stuff, it's almost
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: worse than prank shows.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely, it's definitely way, like somehow less ethical
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: than a prank show.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I also went and watched some of his other stuff
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: once we started researching this, and I'm halfway through one
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: called Darren Brown's Apocalypse.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, yeah, and he just.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Takes a guy and convinces him that the world is
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: ending right in an effort to make him a better person.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, you are torturing this man.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's the thing. And there's also
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: another one called a hero at thirty thousand Feet, where
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he convinces a person that he is on a plane
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: when he's really in a like simulated plane environment and
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: then you know, makes him like land the plane or
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and so yeah, like again, like these have
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: way more in common with a prank show than a
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: magic trick or a psychological experiment. As a psychological experiment,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: they are not particularly useful.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what one you're watching, though, because
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the thing is he kind of runs the gamut. It's
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: not all psychological experiments. He spends a lot of time
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: debunking things like faith healers and yeah, psychics who claim
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to be able to cold read people. Sure, he's got
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: whole specials that are like, no, that's not magic, it's
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: just it's a it's a technique people can use.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: He seems to go in Uh. He seems to like
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: have the same kind of company as like James, Randy
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and Penn and Teller, these guys who are extremely talented
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: magicians to the point where they are basically experts in
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: that in that field of trickery and illusion and then
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: use that knowledge to debunk things that are purporting to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: be actually supernatural.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He is very controversial, yes, Like, uh, there's there's
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a special that came out on Netflix that we'll talk
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: about more in a second, called The Push, And when
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: that came out, people wanted him and the participants arrested
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: because yeah, it's like I do get I get the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: prank show vibes, but it's like, you remember scare Tactics.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking about scare tactics as well.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: It's like scare Tactics but worse, especially the Push.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because moral scare tactics.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's like what if you were on scare
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Tactics and then you came away from it questioning everything
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: about who you are as a.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Person, right exactly, And again like this is uh, you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: this is something that we'll definitely be talking about more.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: But like the he frames this all around, uh with
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: it with a psychological kind of bent where he's framing
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: it as like a social experiment or whatever when and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it does push people to the limits of you know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: social acceptability and whatnot. But the tactics are like, like
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: we're saying, basically, scare tax on Sci Fi Channel, like
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you expect Tracy Morgan to jump out at any moment
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just a lot of hypnotism mixed in, which yes, yeah, some,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: especially in the Apocalypse thing, right, because at one point
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: he has that guy basically in the opening scene of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: The Walking Dead, like he puts him under, gets him
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: in a hospital bed, handcuffs him to it, and then
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: is like wake up and the guy's just in this
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: empty hospital room with a fake news report about the
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Apocalypse playing, and it's like this is fun, but anyone
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in that situation would feel like the Apocalypse. Like, here's
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: what it's terrifying about that episode, and we should cover
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: that too, because it's a two hour thing. It's not
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: what Darren Brown is able to do in that episode,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: it's what the British government is able to do. One
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: of the things they do to this guy is hack
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: his phone in a way that lets them put fake
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: news stories on legitimate websites. So he pulls up the
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: BBC dot com and sees a story about how a
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: meteor shower is about to destroy Earth. Yeah, and it's like,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: why would you not believe it? They do like fake
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: radio broadcasts of shows he listens to, and it's like,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: of course he's gonna think the apocalypse is about to happen.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: You're crafting an apocalypse around him.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Well, and this, to me is it gets
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: to kind of the heart of what his work kind
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: of post in the last ten to fifteen, ten, like
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: thirteen years has been is basically like these extremely elaborate
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: setups to elicit a specific response from either one person
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: or a small group of people. Yeah, because, like like
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: you said, like if like yeah, if you are put
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: into a scenario that is that comprehensive, then you don't
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: really have any choice to the other than to believe
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that that's what's going on.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I mean he's been doing this since two thousand,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: at least on television. He's been performing since ninety two, right,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but he's been doing this on TV since two thousand,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: So he's got to be like eventually he's gonna have
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: that David Copperfield make the statue a liberty disappear thing,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: right right, People are like what that said. Some of
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: what he does reminds me of a David Copperfield special
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I watched where he put up four cards on the
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: screen and like talks you through this progression and at
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: the end he's like, here's the card your finger is on, right,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: And it fucking worked on TV. So like, there's obviously
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: tricks and techniques you can use in your words to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: get people to do what you want. It's just that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: what Darren Brown does isn't always that.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Right well, but also it should be stated he also
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: does he does live stage shows in addition to his
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: his televised and filmed work, and those are from what
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I've heard. Again, I haven't been to see him, but
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: there are very different in structure and are more closely
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: related to a traditional illusion show or a mentalist show.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: They don't have the same sort of elaborate production value,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: but most of his TV work has been focusing on that.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And yeah, you know, it's, uh, it's just interesting. I
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: some of it is. Some of it's more engaging than others.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not like particularly you know, like I said, I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: like magic and that sort of thing, but I'm not
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: a particular fan of mentalism in general, just because there's
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: i don't know, it seems much sloppier than state and
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: like like sid of hand magic and that sort of thing.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But I actually he did watch a card trick that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: he did, and yeah, it was a similar sort of
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: vibe where it's like having someone you know, stop counting
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a card and then he has written the card ahead
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of time and and that sort of thing, and you
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: know it's.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: He is in He is kind of like David Blaine
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: in that way where, yeah, a lot of David Blaine's
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: really big stunts. I'm like, I'm sorry, even if you're
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: in a block of ice, I'm not gonna watch you
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: for sixteen hours, Right, this is like mostly boring. But
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: when you get David Blaine doing card tricks, yeah, he's great.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: He's in his fucking zone. Have you ever seen the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Harrison Ford.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It was literally just about to mention the Harrison Ford
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Orange video, which is amazing.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: It is so great. Harrison Ford at the end is like,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: get the fuck out of my house.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: It's a great Harrison Ford, like it's one of his
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: better performances in the last twenty years. Yeah, but yeah, no,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: it's it's super great. And but like going along with
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: like uh you were saying about his you know, David Blaine,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: like you know with video wedditing there, you know, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: don't want to sit and watch you be in a
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: nice for hours. You know. He had a thing where
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Darren Brannan the thing where he uh flipped a coin
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and got heads ten times in a row and yeah,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: but but the thing but yeah, he filmed for like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: hours until he got ten heads in a row, like
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: that's just And there was another big one where he
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: guessed lottery winning lottery numbers right, and then that was
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: later revealed to be a split camera technique where he
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: just knew what the numbers are going to be beforehand.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And these sorts of things, So like, I don't like
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: he's again, I don't want to take anything away from
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: his talents as a magician or entertainer, like everyone all
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: magicians use these sorts of tricks. Yeah, but it's the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: psychological framing that I think is that Muddi's up that
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's very prolific and anyone who's super prolific,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: like Stephen King is a good example. Not that I'm
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: comparing Darren Brown and Stephen King, but Stephen King is
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: a home run hitter, and home run hitters strike out
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: a lot. Ye, So a lot of the things Stephen
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: King has put out are not that great.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: When he's great, he's really great.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, And even when he's bad, he's readable. And just
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: like when even Darren Brown is not doing great, he's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: still watchable.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's put out a ton of specials since
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: two thousand. Some of the more notable ones. Darren Brown
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: plays Russian Roulette live. Guess what that one's about, Olivia.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Uh, I'm gonna guess that. Maybe on on like some
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: sort of live TV, he plays Russian Roulette.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I watched this last night, and it is I was wondering, Well,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: there's a video on his page where it's just the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: ten minutes where he plays Russian Rulette instead of the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: entire setup of finding the guy who's gonna drive and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: all this, and it is actually very interesting and pretty
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: like if you've seen Deer Hunter, you know how intense
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: watching a person play Russian Roulette is. And he does
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: play Russian Roulette. And the thing is this has been debunked,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: sure one by a guy who just said, well, I
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: think this could be fake, and it's like, well, citation needed,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I need more information about why. Like I understand it
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: could be faked, like most of television is fake, but
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: tell me why, right. And the other thing that came
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: out about this one is that the bullets in the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: gun were blanks, and so people are like, oh, well,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: he wasn't going to die anyway, Yeah he was.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you shoot yourself at close range with
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: bullet filled with blanks, you're gonna die.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just ask Brandon Lee how safe blanks are?
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Or I remember this story so vividly. It happened
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: when I was like eight years old. Yeah, happened in
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. This actor named John Eric Hexham. He
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: was just some like barely known actor at the time,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: working on some show in la and there was a
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: break in the shooting poor choice of words. There was
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: a break into filming and the scene they were just
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: filming was one where he has to load bullets into
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: a forty four magnum So they gave him a functioning
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: gun and blank rounds to put in it, and then
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: there's this break in filming and he starts getting all
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: restless and starts playing around with this fake gun on
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: the set idea and eventually opens the chamber, spins it,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: shuts it, puts it to his head, thinking he's doing
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: some jokey jokes, pulls the trigger, it goes off, and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: he fucking died. Yeah, because it still causes blunt force trauma. Absolutely.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So had Darren Brown shot himself in the head with
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: a blank you still would have seen a man die.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: It might have just taken a few days.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And and you know, I just for one thing,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I want to say, don't play around with a gun ever,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Like please not Like if you have a gun, you
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: always have to use a hold a gun as if
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: whatever it's pointing at will die. That's just basic gun safety.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in that way, the Special is also very irresponsible.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Sure, but like for the for the sake of magic.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: But but you know, I want to say, and because I'm.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Gonna be kind of skeptical and about a lot of
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: stuff that we talk about on this program, probably, but
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I want to say I don't think the I the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: question of whether or not a specific trick or illusion
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was unquote faked is a particularly interesting question because that's
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: the entire point of a magic trick, is that it's fake.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Like obviously he was. He had a way of playing
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Russian Roulette that we don't know of that you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: worked out, and that's fine. That's how you know magic.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: We're you know, like a I'm a big fan of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Pen and Teller, the magicians, not the Libertarians, but I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: went and saw them live in Vegas once. It was
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: one of the greatest shows I've ever seen in my life.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: It was fucking fantastic. And they did their famous magic
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: bullet trick, which I don't know if you've ever seen.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Is that the one where they catch it in the teeth.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right where they catch a bullet and the teeth
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: with a pane of glass between them and a line
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: on the ground that no one crosses. It's it's one
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: of the most amazing magic tricks out there. It's it's spectacular.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: You can watch it on YouTube. Highly recommend it. And
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. I have no idea how that's done,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: but I know that it was done some way, Like
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I know that it wasn't like real, you know, in
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the in the sense that you know, they actually shot
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: each other in the mouth and caught the bullets.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know, well, it's like it reminds me
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: of a thing I did a live show with Cracked
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: once at the LA, the comic convention Stanley puts on
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: in LA. We did well, like a live panel thing
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: and we were talking about real people who had actual superpowers, right,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: and the guy I brought up this isn't really a superpower,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: but he could. I if you held up a classic record,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: like a classical music record, he could tell you what
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it was just by looking at the grooves of the record.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: He could tell you what it was, where it was recorded,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: when it was recorded, like everything about it like flawlessly.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: And I think it's James Randy is the guy who
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: like offered people a million dollars yes to prove that
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: they could actually do what they they did. This guy
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: was able to do it. He went on James Randy's
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: show or whatever. And the thing is he eventually was like, well,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: this isn't magic, Like I could teach anyone how to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: do this. And when he said that, people were just
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: like I'm out, Like I thought this was going to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: be something magical. But you can tell like, you can
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: tell me how to do it, and like, how that
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: is such an incorrect way to think about that. That's
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: like if someone walks in the room and starts flying
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and you're like, are you magic and they're like, no,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I could show you how to do this in like
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: five minutes, right, and you're like, fuck you stop flying,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: you fraud right exactly? No.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that which is, honestly and you know, that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is like the thesis of the entirety of pinnin Teller's
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: live show. That's like the whole idea is like, you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: we can tell you literally step by step what we're
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: gonna do, and you're still going to be flummixed because
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it's fucking amazing, and.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: You're still not going to be able to do it right.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: You can't even if they tell you. And that actually
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: comes up in this this show a bunch where they're like,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I can't actually show you how to.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Do this right, and it does. And again we'll talk
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: about some of the questions that I have at mostly
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: as it regards to the Sirhan Sirhan thing, but.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and the the thing about the Russian Roulette thing.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I haven't watched the whole special, but it is suggested
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: that he's just using a technique that was developed in
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: the seventies called neuro linguistic programming, right, and again he
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't claim to have magic powers. One thing I noticed
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: during the Russian roulette thing, he tells the guy to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: pick a number and focus on that number, and right
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: after he says it, he goes, are you thinking of
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: one now? Right? And it ends up that the real
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: bullet was in the chamber labeled one, right, So he
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: could have just been using a technique like that where
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: you just repeatedly suggest the thing you want the person
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But that does start to that kind of begins the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say criticism, but like side eye
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that I kind of have towards Darren Brown as his
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: career continues, because he uses words like you know, he
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: throws around psychological terms, and he uses things like you know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: neurolinguistic programming, which is something that has been basically conclusively
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: shown to be not a thing. It's a pseudoscience, which
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: is fine, like but yeah, but it's when he starts
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: to use real psychological things as misdirection is where it
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: kind of becomes uh yeah, not problematic that we'd is
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: so annoying anymore. Yeah, but like sometimes there's only one
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: word to use to describe something that is has something
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: resembling a problem.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that that's where he differs from David Blaine.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: David Blaine only involves other people in the fun shit, right, Like,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: he'll levitate in front of you, but he's not going
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: to make you think the apocalypse is about to happen,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: right exactly. That's probably some shit Chris Angel would pull
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: if he was able.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, well that would take a real mind
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: freak to do something like that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: So I did the one charming Chris Angel moment I've
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: ever seen. I was watching an episode of his show
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and he's sitting in the back of a van and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: he's holding a styrofoam cup and he goes, you want
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: to see a trick right now, And he holds his
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: hand up and it looks like the styrofoam cup is floating,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and then he just turns it over and he had
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: just poked a hole in the back of this thumb. Absolutely,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Oh that was cute, but also, you fucking suck.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not very good. I will say it is
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: a bummer that Chris Angels took the name mind Freak
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: because that would be a great name for Darren Brown's specials.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: It sure would. Yeah, another Darren Brown special to push.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: This one was controversial as shit. You should watch this one.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: It's on Netflix.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one that I haven't watched, but I
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: did read, you know, basically everything there is to read
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: He takes people and puts them through a very specific
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: series of events, right, that are meant to uh kind
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of heighten their I don't know, he makes he makes
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: people commit murder like he makes he gets I think
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: it's four different people to literally push a man off
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: the ledge of a building who is thankfully connected to
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: a harness, right, And there's there's one guy who doesn't
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: do it, which they reveal at the end, because at
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: first it's like everyone did it, like it kind of
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: wrecks your faith in humanity. Yeah, but then there's one
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: guy who was like, fucking call the police. I don't care. Yeah,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I kicked a guy in the stairwell. I'm not gonna
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: murder somebody. He does have them kick someone in the
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: stairwell ranking they're kicking an actual person, but everyone else
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: does it.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where again the prank show aspect
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: comes in, because.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: This is traumatic.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: It's it's definitely traumatic. And I'm not saying that these
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: people aren't going through some shit, but they are being
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: through a great deal of behind the scenes production value
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and the use of actors and sets and all this stuff.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: They are putting people into a position where they feel
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: like this is all really happening, and pushing it, pushing
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: them to do what the magician in this case, Darren
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Brown wants or expects them to do.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a more aggressive version of the Truman Show. Sure,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: where like especially this one and The Apocalypse one, where
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: your whole entire existence is being shaped by this television
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: production right, and it's like, what do you think people
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: are gonna do?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Right? Exactly again, scare tactics. Again. I was thinking about
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: scare tactics a lot, especially while watching the only one
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: of the Netflix ones I watched was The Sacrifice, and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: that is just straight up scare tactics.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: The Apocalypse one, there's literally a scene where the guy
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: is in a bus thinking he's going to see the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Killers in an undisclosed location, like the band the Killers.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Right right, and needs to be clarified in this context.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Meteors start falling from the sky and exploding.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: That is so Scare Tactics show.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: It's I think they tried to bring it back and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: it sucked, but man, at the time, I did enjoy it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: It's like the only sketch show that I really enjoyed,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: not sketch prink show that I really I generally hate
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: prank shows.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: There's an episode of Scare Tactics where they put a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: guy in a car and have him pretend to start
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: stabbing this the driver in the chest. Yeah, but they
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: do it with like this aggressive bro, with this college dude.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And of course the minute the guy starts stabbing this
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: kid in the back seat just starts punching him in
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the face so fucking hard, and his girlfriend, who's in
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: on the prank, starts.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: Going stop stop, Like imagine how confused he must have been,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Like he did the absolute correct thing, and everyone's like,
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: you aggressive dick, why would you punch that guy?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: The one that I remember the most, and I'm sure
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: this will be the last time we talked about Scare Tactics,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: but the one that I remember most was the people
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: who were in on it were like basically all this
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: guy's friends and they all went camping in an RV
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: and then they you know, the scare tactics people staged
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: like a UFO encounter, including like a guy in you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a suit and like lights and like crazy shit. And
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I would believe that if all of my
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: friends were there, Like, I would not think that my
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: friends would betray my trust in such a way.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a lot. It's a lot to put
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: people through.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: The I hate sketch shows. I just sketch, I keep
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: saying sketch. I hate prank shows. I just want to
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: be clear. I really don't like I think they're a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: bad idea.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, impractical jokers is great, but they're just pranking each other.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Not well that's everyone else. That's a different thing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: The push. These people are subjected to like three hours
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: of emotional terror and then they do something unthink which
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: sounds crazy. But the police get confessions that way all
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: the time. Absolutely, like they will lock you in a
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: room and emotionally wreck you to the point where you
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: confess to a crime. And Darren Brown has a special
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: about that too, where he basically guilt someone into believing
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: they had something to do with the death of a celebrity.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I watched that one, and that one, I will say,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: seemed very staged. I'm just gonna say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: that one was. You know. It's like they put this
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: guy in a big manor house and at night, while
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: he's asleep, it's implied that Darren Brown gives him a
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: subliminal message to keep him asleep, and then they carry
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: him like they pick him up out of bed and
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: carry him down into the garden. Uh like, oh the garden.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Did he shoot her COVID?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. No, Yes, that's that's what it was. That
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: was the whole setup. But yeah, and I'm just like,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's a little that's a little much. I
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: just ca that's that I'm sorry, is not real.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And that's what's what's interesting about that though, is that's
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: the most plausible experiment, is Oh, can you convince someone
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that they were involved in a crime they weren't involved in?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why Illinois overturned the death penalty. Yeah, because
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: one cop finally admitted he had just coerced confessions out
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: of hundreds and hundreds of people, and some of them
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: ended up on death Row and Illinois was like, fuck,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: we're gonna we're gonna execute a lot of innocent people
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: if we don't look into this.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Absolutely no, Yeah, that's a real thing. Like I'm not Yeah,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say that coerced confessions are fake.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that particular coer confession seemed fake.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And that's the one thing, like any he pulls these
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: participants from, like he'll send out a tweet and be like, hey,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: do you want to participate my next thing? And then
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: he like doesn't really tell people. He just like does
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: a bunch of fucking tricks for them and decides who
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: he's gonna pick. But if you're even responding to that, yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: you know, anytime Darren Brown is in your presence, you
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: might be being filmed.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or you know, or if you're in a situation
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that seems maybe unusual in some way.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Every thing you do, you have to be cognizant, all right,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: this might be part of it. And so then like
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: if you're in bed and you're like, why am I
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: being picked up? Oh, there's dare right exactly, all right,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna roll.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: With this, right, And this is this is kind of
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: this comes to the crux, and we're gonna talk about
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Sir Han later, but that's kind of the crux of
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: My thing about The Assassin is that, which is the
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: episode that we're going to be going in depth about,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: is that it just seems like it's a lot of
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: people who want to be there, which is fine. I mean,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: that seems fun.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: And then The Miracle is another Netflix special.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: This one is about sacrifice.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the Sacrifice. That one is pretty interesting.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: It was interesting. I would love to know more, especially
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I would like to know more about the participant who
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I can't remember than they love Phil. I would like
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: to know more about him in his life. That interesting.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: There's a crazy scene where he makes Phil just sit
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: down and is the person he makes him just sit
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and stare at.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Muslim I think so it was not clear to.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Me because it's about Phil basically being coerced into taking
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: a bullet for an illegal immigrant, and Phil is very
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: pro Trump and very anti illegal immigrant.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: It stated that he's xenophob and I have a much
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I will say I have a much easier time thinking,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: like accepting that the American people that have been chosen
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: for his experiments do not know who he is than
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the British people because he is so much less famous
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: here than he is there.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And the difference in the sacrifice is it isn't ending
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: with someone doing something bad. It's ending with someone doing
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the right thing, which I'm assuming is a little easier
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: to coerce out of people.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I would imagine, I mean, even Hope, Like, I guess
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that's the Hope.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: But the scene where he sits him down and just
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: makes him stare at that guy. Yeah, and Phil just
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: starts sobbing and like trembling. That's a heavy scene. Yeah,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: it feels hard to like. Phil is one of our
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: generation's finest actors, right if he was faking that, it
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: was very impressed.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: There's some interesting stuff, And I did think it, like
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I do think it was kind of fucked up that
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: they cut into his neck and pierced like and drew
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: blood and shit.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: And.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: During their fake implanting of the chip that is supposedly
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: causing all of this behavior, I thought maybe, like, I'm
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: sure there's some sort of contract sign but it still
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: seemed maybe a little unethical.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Oh so Project Runway can cut people's necks, but not
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Darren Brown.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna go ahead and say that maybe
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Project Runway was kind of a success, you know, unethical
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't know that they did that, but yeah.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: No, but I mean, hey, I'm still gonna say the
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Project Runway probably, I'm not gonna lie. I don't watch
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: reality TV. And at first I have thought that maybe
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you were referring to some sort of secret military priam
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that I hadn't heard of. And then as I was speaking,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I put it together that you were talking about the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Model Show. But I do say I was, yeah, so.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I think it's that would be a great name for
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: a military project now right, it would be impossible to
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: google information about it.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I also thought the you know so, I thought that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was fucked up. And I also thought the part where
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: he they numbed his arm, you know, quote unquote they
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: used hypnosis to like make his arm numb was very
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: funny because they use a classic technique of where, you know,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: where they're like, we're gonna if you think if we
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: put a needle through your hand, you wouldn't feel anything,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and then feels like yeah, no, I mean it's totally dead.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: And so Darren picks up a flap of his skin
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and pinches it super hard, like for a while before
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: putting the needle in, which is a classic. That's a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: classic where because by pinching the skin like that, you
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: are effectively killing all of the nerves that would feel
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that sort of pain in the hand. And then you know,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: he lets it down and he looks at the needle.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh, wow, that's crazy because you can't really
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: feel a needle after it's already like in there, so anyway,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: but but yeah, that's like you still.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Oh sure, yeah, it all sells the and again, but
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: like this is the whole thing. It's like it's very
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: weird because like he's he's kind of stopped being a
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: magician at this point because the only person that he
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: is playing a magic trick on is this guy that
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: he is convinced that he has put a mind control
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: chip inside of.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: And that is interesting in one way, but it is
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: very different than what you might see if you went
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: to a mentalist show. You know, it's very different.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: In the guy.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, it's a good excuse. I liked it. They
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: show him the ship. It's a nice little prop. And
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: then yeah, and then the thing at the end, like
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, again, very scared tactics it. I'm not gonna
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: say I would have known that it was staged, but
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I wouldn't necessary you have thought everything
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: was super normal that was happening. It was kind of
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: a weird situation where he's in there, sayster bar, and
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: he's getting like inducted into this motorcycle gang and then
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: they chase out some you know, uh Latino guys, and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: then they chase him down in a truck and then
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: there's a very tense breaking pad standoff in the desert,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's a lot that one.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: That one would not work in England. Yeah, they'd be like, oh, okay, okay,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I'm getting inducted into it, all right, Yeah sure, yeah, sure, sure,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: for sure, I'm totally down. And then there's one on
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Netflix called Miracle, which is about debunking faith healers and
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: religious frauds. And I bet the science lov and libs
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: don't complain about that.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: No, I don't. I think it's all perfectly great and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: above board. I haven't seen it, but I'm sure it's good.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Well, No, it is like that's one where he does
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: like a lot of times he's like, look these people
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: are just fucking using plants in the audience most of
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, that's what like Jim Jones did that.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Jim Jones pretended to be a faith healer.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Sure, and that set Even then you still.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Got to be persuasive enough for everyone else in the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: audience to be like, sure, shit, that seems real.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and that's why you know, I'm not gonna
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: ever say that he is an untalented performer or illusionist.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: He's obviously, you know, talented enough to gain this following
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that he has, even if like I'm not necessarily a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: particular fan of his work, I think that it's definitely done.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: It's hit or miss for sure. Like and if you
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: pull up his YouTube page, there are some crazy fucking
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: videos on there now. Yeah, Like one is just called
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: pushing your hand down on a knife. It's like Jesus
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: really scrape in the bottom of the barrel. Now, Yeah,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: we're not talking about any of those specials today, even
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: though we've been talking for about them for about forty minutes.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We're talking about an episode of a series from twenty
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: eleven called The Experiments, and the episode is called The Assassin,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: and it covers a theory from the RFK assassination, which
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: is the girl in the Polka Dot Dress theory. Olivia,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: did you watch the A and E documentary about the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: assassination of Bobby Kennedy? I did, Yes, What did you think?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting, you know, it's a fascinating topic,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: and they had a lot of really interesting archive audio
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: and that sort of thing that I really enjoyed. The
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: interrogation of I'm going to blink on her name, Sammy
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Sandy Serrano. I thought that was a really interesting just
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: as a evidence, just like a police corruption evidence. I
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: found very fascinating because that is, it's horrific what that
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: tape reveals.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's basically Sandy Serrano is one of the reasons
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: the girl in the Polka Dot Dress theory exists. And
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the idea is that Sirhan Sirhan was under hypnosis of
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: some sort. It's been floating around pretty much from the
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: minute he was apprehended. And there's a quote from an
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: LAPD officer which I'm kind of I'm repeating stuff from
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: our actual RFK episode, but just this bit that episode
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: is there's it's a whole thing, but this is a
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: quote from LAPD officer Randolph Adair. The guy was real confused.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: It was like it didn't exactly hit him what he
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: had done. He had a black, glossed over look on
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: his face like he wasn't in complete control of his
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: mind at the time. And hypnosis like they it seemed
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: like everyone was using it on Sirhan. Sirhan because he
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: was hypnotized during interrogation. He alleges he was hypnotized by
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the people who set him up to commit this murder. Right,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: But the gist is he's He says he doesn't remember
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: doing this right, which is pretty integral to the Darren
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Brown episode. It is that we're going to talk about.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: He did say one time while he was under hypnosis
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: that he remembered meeting a girl in a polka dot dress.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: This is a quote. I'm trying to figure out how
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: to hit on her. That's all that I can think about.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I was fascinated with her looks. She never said much.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: It was very erotic. I was consumed by her. She
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: was a seductress with an unspoken availability. And there is
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: one picture of a girl in a poke dress right
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: from that night. You only see her from the back.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: She does look like a seductress.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Sure. I mean as far as you can tell that
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: from a woman's back in her hair.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: She got great hair too. You're right, she does.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: It's great hair. It is great hair.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: It's amazing. So Sandy Serrano, she was a Kennedy campaign volunteer.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: She told an NBC News reporter named Sander Vaniker Great
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: name Wow on Live TV about seeing a young woman
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: in a polka dot dress and a male companion who
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: passed her on a fire escape. The woman in the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: polka dot dress said, we shot him, we shot him,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: And when Serrano asked who they shot, the woman said
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Senator Kennedy and ran off. Another witness in the pantry,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Vincent de Pirio, told the LAPD about a woman in
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: a white dress with dark polka dots who seemed to
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: be holding sir Han just before the shooting. According to
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Sir Hans Sirhan, this woman pinched him on the shoulder,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: spun him around to show him people coming in through
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: the pantry, and this is a quote. Then I was
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: on the target range a flashback to the shooting range.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that I had a gun. Pretty weird.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say that if someone overheard me exclaiming
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: we shot him. We shot him, and they asked what
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I meant. I would probably not respond with the name
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: of the person that I shot. That's just me. That's
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: just me.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: So you think Sandy Serrano was lying.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think Sandy Serrano was necessarily lying. I
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: just think that that is an odd thing to do
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: if you've just killed someone.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely an odd thing to do. But the
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: person who says it happened is very convincing, because, as
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: you mentioned, there is a audio of the police trying
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: to get Sandy Serrano to change her story.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: So either Sandy Serrano and fucking Sir Hans Sirhan we're
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: working together, or she is just a fantastic liar who's
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: lying for no reason.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, I don't want to say that. I'm not
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: gonna accuse Sandy Serrano of lying. I'm not saying that
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: at all. I just think it's a I just think
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: it's a weird thing to say. That's it, That's all
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely is.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying if I were in that situation, then
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: I had just orchestrated the murder of a famous senator,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I would probably not talk to anyone about it. I
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: would keep that to myself.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Here is one possibility, though, it's a heat of the
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: moment thing. Right, this woman's running toward her shouting. It's
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: possible she might have heard we shot him, but she
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: was actually saying they shot him or he shot him. Yeah, Like,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: especially if she was saying he shot.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Him right, right, right, he shot him or we shot him,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: and maybe she just you know, assumed Senator Kennedy. I
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: don't know. Again, I don't want to. I definitely don't
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: want to accuse any surrano of lying. Yes you do,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: because the police have already tried their best, and it's
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: obvious that that won't work. So you know, yeah.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And the stuff that the physical evidence that they
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: bring up in that documentary is the most compelling to
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: me because Sir Hans, Sir Han never got close enough
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: to fire the shots that killed Bobby Kennedy.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Right, And this is the thing that this is the
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: very interesting thing about the mind control and the whole Robert.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've done an episode about Bobby Kennedy.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: We don't need to rehash the whole thing. But like,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: there are a couple conflicting I would say conspiracy theories
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: about what happened to Robert Kennedy. And I'm not saying
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: any of them are necessarily true or false, but like,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make a lot of sense for there too,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: for Sir Hans Shun to have been mind controlled into
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: shooting Kennedy and then someone else did it because the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: angle of the bullet comes from. I don't know if
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: there's just a lot of conflicting evidence, like everyone saw
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: everyone saw him point a gun at Kennedy, but also
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: all the evidence points to the gunshot coming from behind,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, and.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: A lot of evidence was destroyed, like abolutely. There is
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a photographer who was in the room who they interviewed
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: in the A and E documentary who was behind Kennedy
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: when the shooting happened, and he took a bunch of
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: pictures turned him over to the LAPD. The LAPD was
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: like we destroyed him, bub sign.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: No absolutely, but yeah, my basic idea point would be
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: that if there was a group who wanted to murder RFK,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: and Lord knows that there were groups that wanted to
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: murder RFK, a lot like if they were going to
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: shoot him from behind, and you know, they were ready
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to do that. They wouldn't need to program Sir Hans
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: sir Han to do anything because he unless you know,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: they're programming him to look like a Patsy, which is
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: like a different thing.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: But it's also possible that Sir Hans sir Han and
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: the guy who shot Bobby Kennedy did not know about
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: each other, right, which in that case, they might have
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: been banking on Sir Hans sir Han to shoot the
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: guy who shot Bobby Kennedy, because yeah, they would have
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: been basically their heads would have been side by side
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: if you look into how that guy was walking Kennedy
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: through there, So they might have just fucked up.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or again, like this is another this has come
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: up when we talk about JFK. But I like the
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: theory that a bodyguard killed JFK on accident. Maybe it
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: was the same thing that happened with RFK. It's just
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: a crazy coincidence. And then they decided like you know,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: like Sir hanster Han came up with a gun pointed
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: at Kennedy, bodyguard gets his gun out, somebody moves, something happens,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, like I don't know.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's one of the most compelling bits of
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: conflicting evidence is the LAPD claimed there were like eight shots, right,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and the FBI said there were eleven bullets I believe
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: in the room and Sir Hans Sirhan's gun only held
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: eight bullets, right, And the LAPD tried to get the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: FBI to retract that. The FBI was like, we know
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: what a fucking bullet in a wall looks like.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to say anything slanderous
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: about the LAPD.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Please don't.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, but I you know, it wouldn't be beyond
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: the realm of possibility to me that maybe they fucked
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: up wow and killed.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: RFK Wow, you went there, I did.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, geez. I know I should get this podcast
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: taken off the air.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: We should just move on all this.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Those voices in my ears again.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Perfect makes sense. So let's talk about this episode. Yes,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: it is basically Darren Brown trying to recreate what Sir
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Hans Sir Hans says happened to him, right, And it
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: starts with Darren Brown doing a bunch of hypnotism tricks
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: in front of a live audience right off the bat.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I'd like to reassure anyone who watches this. Yes, the
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty two Hypnotism Act, Yes, is indeed a real thing.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I look that up as well. I read the Act.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: The outlink to it. I read it.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: British law is extremely weird and hard to read, especially
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: from the fifties, but I did read it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: They go hard laying out the rules for what a
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: hypnotist can and can.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: You could tell that in the fifties. So people in
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Parliament were like super freaked out by Sevingouli or something.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I mean this is MK ultra is in
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: full swing by this point. Yeah, They're like, you're what
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: the Americans are doing?
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Jesus, it's some sort of or maybe like some sort
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of Cold war thing. Well what if the what if
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: the Russians put like hypnotists on TV? Or Yeah, I
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's very.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Funny to be probably, is it. I think they're like,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: if this works, we don't want it to fucking work
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: on everybody.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Almost every dumb law that was made between the end
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: of World War Two and the nineties in Britain or
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: America or wherever could be traced to red Scare.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Basically it's all communism. So the point of this part
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: is he's trying to find the person who's most compliant
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: enough to be programmed to kill someone. And I like
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that he's upfront, I mean, at least kind of upfront.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: He doesn't show you right obviously, but that would make
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: for boring television. But he's upfront about the fact that
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: not everyone falls for this shit, right, But.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: That is kind of to me, that's part of his
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: his trick. That's you know, at this point, it feels
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: more like Darren Brown is playing he's playing tricks on
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: the audience at home more than he's playing any tricks
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: on anybody that he's actually interacting with. Like he's you know,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: he is very consciously like explaining the supposed psychological principles
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: that he is using to conduct these you know, experiments
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: that he as he calls them or whatever. But like it.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: He basically he says that he like performs illusions that
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: look like tricks because he's using psychology. But really it's
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: more like he's performing illusions that look like psychology by
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: using like tricks, like magician tricks.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I agree with that in regards to one of the
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: experiments he does in this part, which is the acid experiment.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one where it's the most obvious. Definitely.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no one. I feel like no one's gonna go
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: on a Darren Brown TV show, right and expect that
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: he's really gonna give you acid to throw in someone's face.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll go one step further. I don't think
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: anyone's going to go on any TV show as an
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: audience member and think that if they're put in that
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: situation they are going to do on camera, they are
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: going to be given real acid to throw in someone's face.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: And if you do, you are filming a show in
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: North Korea, probably because that is how Kim Jong un
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: killed his brother.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it was, And that was how he did it,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: was by getting a bunch of people onto a game
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: show and he.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Did well, he did he have you Have you seen
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: the documentary Assassins?
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: I have not know.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: It is about how two girls were tricked into killing
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Kim Jong UN's brother, and the way North Korea did
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: it is they convinced these girls they were on a
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: prank show, and for months before this, they had them
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: pulling these pranks where they would run up and rub
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: lotion on someone's face in the airport and then they
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: would run away, and the last time they did that prank,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: it was VX nerve agent on their hands and they
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: killed Kim Jong UN's brother and then everyone they were
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: working with disappeared. And it's an interesting documentary. North Korea
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: fucked up in a really big way in that they
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: basically set up two girls who relentlessly documented everything they
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: did online. So they were like, yeah, here's pictures of
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: the people who set us up. So it didn't completely work,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: but it did work in that they killed Kim Jong
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: UN's brother on a prank show. But other than that, yeah,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: no TV show is going to let you throw acid
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: in someone's face exactly.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: They went to a freaking Channel four studio. I doubt
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: they're expecting that they're going to kill someone.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: I did find the ice experiments interesting because that, to
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: me speaks to a phenomenon we know happens, which is
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: people undergoing surgery without anesthesia just through hypnotism. I'll link
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: to an article from the Washington Post from nineteen ninety
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and there's a doctor quoted in there who is like,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: this will not work for everybody. You have to be
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: very strong mentally if you have Alzheimer's, if you're an addict,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: if you're depressed, if you're just naturally skeptical, this will
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: not work. So they really intensely screen their patients who
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: want to try this for some reason, like I guess
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: you're just scared of I mean, general anesthesia. Can it
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: kills people all the time?
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's kind of what Darren Brown's doing here.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I would say, the thing in
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the program that is the closest to what you would
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: call like real quote unquote hypnosis. Like, you know, I
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: have doubts that the water is quite as cold as
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: maybe they say it is. It's obviously very cold. They
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: have a thermal imager I've read in doing my research,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: I did read reports from people who were in both
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: of the audiences that were on this episode, And you know,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: as far as you can trust anything that anyone says
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: on the internet, it does seem like the thermal imaging
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: camera that they use to like show how cold people
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: are are real. But you know, again, like if.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: It's how you find ghosts Olivia, of course right, Well.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Of course exactly, and that's obviously true as well. But yeah,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: you know, like there are ways to mentally numb yourself
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: or you know, like make your pain threshold higher than
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: it might otherwise be. We talked about it the sacrifice,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you know, where the guy thinks his arm is numb.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was inside a block of ice for
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: a few days.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, but yeah, I thought this was interesting. Again,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: like very basic, like mentalist type stuff. Hey, folks, this
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: is Anna Ellen's Whelan deviates from the Twelve Questions podcast.
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: We host a show about all types of people recovering
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: from life's curveballs.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: We ask unique and fun guests twelve questions to give
• 57:33
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• 57:35
  Speaker 5: Whether you've got addiction problems, anger problems, or just plan
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: getting through the days that feel the same. We believe
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• 57:48
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• 57:52
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• 58:07
  Speaker 2: So, he finally settles on a young val Kilmer.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I saw this in the notes. I don't did it
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I've seen young Val Kilmer. He's hot.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: There's a scene at the end where I mean, I'm
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: not saying completely like a young Val Kilmer, Like a
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: young Val Kilmer if he never became an actor, sure,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: something like that, a teen Val Kilmer.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I guess. I mean this guy was definitely an adult.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: What I couldn't even tell he acted like a child.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, he's being put through a series of
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: kind of childish activities.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean he was. He was the lucky
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: crowd member who was deemed most likely to be able
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: to be programmed to assassinate beloved British actor Stephen.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Fa Basically, he was picked as this guy is the
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: biggest Darren fan in the audience. You win. Congratulations.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: So the first thing they put this kid through is
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Marksman mode training, which is one of the things when
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Sir Hans Sirhan says everything looked like a gun range.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: That's what they're trying to implant in this kid in
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: this part. And again this is using a pretty uh
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I guess, just an accelerated version of a thing that
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: athletes do a lot, which is visualization.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, sure, I understand that visualization though takes a
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: very long time.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's Darren Brown's whole thing is that he
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: does an accelerated version of that. And I don't completely
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: doubt that that's possible.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I I don't necessarily doubt that that's possible. I do
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: doubt that that is what is happening in this program.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: That feel, This feels to me like a classic. Like
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I was saying, that's his side of hand is explaining
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: to you what he's doing and then doing something a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: little trickier because again, this none of this is this live.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: This is all pre recorded and edited. Yeah, and you
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: know he does become a you know, they show him
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: becoming a good shooter, but we never we don't have
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: any proof that that is actually what happened, you know, Like,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and I get to be there. I don't want but
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, and I know that that could be
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: like a you know, I don't want to be a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: total denialist or whatever, but you know, at a certain point,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I have to be like, there's no way that the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: guy can go from being shitty with a gun and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: not using it at all to being a great marksman
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: in that span of a time, even with conditioning.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Have you ever gone to a shooting range.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've sed, I've fired a gun, I've gune hunting.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the country.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like that's been my experience.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Like the one time I went to a shooting range,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I was kind of shitty when I got there, and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: within like an hour, like I had amazing muscle memory
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: like it like it's a thing you can develop, and
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I just I don't know, maybe havn't it and planet
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: in your head that you're the best around and nothing's
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: ever gonna keep you down.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: The key though, is that you spent an hour literally
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: practicing shooting, and that makes you better at shooting, Whereas
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: if you in this it's shown, or at least this
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: is how it's told. You know, he fires a leven
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: lever action rifle first to demonstrate his martsmanship, which first
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: of all, is going to produce way different results than
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: a pistol. And then he's given his conditioning and then
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: we are shown him firing a pistol and supposedly being
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: much more accurate. That is a very different kind of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: situation than going and practicing for an hour and getting
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: better at using the same kind of gun. Right, Like,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: it's easier to aim a pistol than it is a
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: lever action rifle that has a lot more kick.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: But they had him shoot that pistol before he went
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: and got the programming too. Yeah, they but and then
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: he got better at that, Like that's the thing he
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: got better at.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Right, I understand, But I just yeah, this is just
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: where it starts to really strain my credibility as far
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: as him being mind controlled. And again, this is something
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: where again I have to be clear, I'm not sayting
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: that any of what I'm saying here makes me not
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: believe that sir Han Sirhan was programmed or anything like that.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that I don't think this program does
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: a particularly good job of making that argument.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I feel like they there's obviously a lot
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: of steps left out, and he alludes to that right
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: from the time of time. Like at the end of
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: this segment he says this really slick thing where he
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: goes it doesn't matter how many bull's eyes he hit, right,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: it's just that he's hitting more now. And it's like, ah,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: that could just be the product of like if you
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: play a video game, you're shitty at it. And then
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: like an hour later, you're a little better exactly.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And this is all I'm saying, is I agree there
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: were a lot of steps left out. That is part
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: of the magic trick that he is playing on us
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: the viewer, Like that's That's all I'm saying, is he's
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: telling us that one thing is happening and another thing
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: is actually happening, which is classic a magic trick.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Right. What did you think of the next part, which
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: was the amnesia bit?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: Was the amnesia thing? Was that before or after the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: restaurant where he fired the water pistol?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: The all of that is part of the amnesia bit,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: right where the because Sir Hans Sir Han, A lot
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: of what he says is he just doesn't remember doing
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: this or even shooting at all. And he's been denied
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: parole fourteen times, at least at the time of this,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: he'd been denied pearl fourteen times basically for that reason,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: because he cannot consistently give details of what he did
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that night, and he's not super remorseful for it. There's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: that one interview you brought up in the last episode, yes,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: which I feel like him being up for parole might
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: explain that interview, yeh like, because that's the one deviation
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: from his story, and it's either that he's been lying
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: this whole time or in nineteen eighty nine he was like, well,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: they said, if I'm remorseful and I admit, they'll let
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: me out right, And he did that, and they might
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: have been like, no, no, still not enough, No.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: No totally yeah, No, that's the thing. And again, that
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: is a huge question that is going to be difficult,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: if maybe impossible, to ever answer for certain. But the
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: problem again that I have with this episode that we're
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: basically talking about the whole time, is that that's his
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: framing for this, is that this whole experiment, as he
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: calls it, is a demonstration of how a person can
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: be programmed in that way. And I just don't think
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: that it makes an argument for that compelling at all.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't work for me.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: What did you think of the amnesia experiments? Basically, what
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: he does is he, throughout the whole episode, he just
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: touches this kid on the shoulder and the kid's head
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: goes down and it's like, all right, you're being hypnotized again,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, And he introduces the cell phone ring
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: tone that's supposed to be a trigger, right for this
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: kid to commit an act like whatever act they implant
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: in his head. And then he also says, when you
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: see this pokea dot pattern, that's gonna be a trigger,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: but also you're not gonna remember it after and he did.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: The first thing he does is he's like, I'm gonna
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: guess your ATM pin number, right, And this is after
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: he's implanted this pattern thing in the kid's head, and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: he goes, all right, I'm gonna guess your pin number.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And they're standing next to a screen that has this
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: like swirl pattern on it and the kid's like, all right,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: go ahead. And then the pattern on the screen changes
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: to that poka dot pattern, right, and Darren Brown goes,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: tell me your pin number, and the kid tells him,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: and then the pattern changes back and Darren Brown goes
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: one zero five four right. And what we are to
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: believe happened in that moment is that this kid was
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: programmed to tell Darren Brown his pin number and to
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: not remember that he did that. But he does it times.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: He does it with his shoe.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: One right, the shoe thing. Yeah.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: He does it in a restaurant where.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: He hasn't like shoot a guy with a water pistol
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: with like that's like filled with like red goo. Yeah yeah,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Like that one. It's hard to know. Like that is
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: where it gets to be really hard to know if.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: And you know you at a certain point you have
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: to take like the kid's word that he doesn't remember
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: any of this, and I'm sorry, it's hard for It's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: hard for me to do that because he went to
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: a Darren Brown show and he's been spending a lot
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: of time with Darren Brown. He's obviously a fan. He
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: was whittled down out of an audience of like one
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: hundred people or whatever. Like it's just I don't know, man,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: that's that's just not compelling evidence that he actually is
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: forgetting what he's doing. That's so easy to stage that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: it's way easier to stage than it is to actually do.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: What did you think of the big moment right the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: final scene where they's he's told that he's okay with
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: Stephen Fry for some reason?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Well did he? It seemed like he was going to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: meet Darren Brown afterwards, but he's going to see Stephen
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: for I don't know. I do want to say Okay,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: so they give They bring out this case that has
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: a gun in it, and they show the kid the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: loaded gun. They're like, this, this gun has three bullets
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: in it. You need to give this to Darren Brown
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: after the show. Like, even if he hadn't been told
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: what he's supposed to do, He's gone through all this
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: shit where Darren Brown's been talking about trying to program
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: someone to shoot somebody, even if he's not told specific instructions,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: like I'm sorry, he's gonna know what what he needs
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: to do in this moment, but it's not hard.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: Did you not feel because here's the thing, even if
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: this kid, I mean, he's obviously a Darren Brown fan, Yeah,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: did you not feel? Like? There was a bit where
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: after he hears the cell phone ring tone, he sees
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: the polka dot dress, the woman literally turns around and
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: says Stephen Fry is the target.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're talking to Stephen Fry.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: There's a very long delay right where that kid seems
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: like he's really thinking about I mean, but.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: You can project any thoughts that you want onto that pause.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: That's not I know.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: But even if it's even if up to that point
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: he was like, all right, this has all been fake,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: and I know it's been fake, but is fake?
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, he would know that it is.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: Darren Brown was very famous with this has been shot,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: and he was famous for doing these. He had just
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: done a thing called the Heist where he like tricked
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: the guy into committing bank robbery and shooting someone like
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: this is just in his wheelhouse of things to do.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: Of course he would know that that, like if anything,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: like if you want to say that he hadn't been
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: given specific instructions, then you can project under that pause
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: that he's remembering the forehead thing and then he's remembering
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: the gun like it like there's just nothing you can
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: project anything you want onto like the few seconds of
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: pause that they show.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just it's just not enough for me. And
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: whereas I like, you know, I can believe CIA or
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: whatever you know, programming techniques and those sorts of things exist,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: because the CIA would be a lot more ruthless in
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: their programming than tered Brown is able to be on television.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: They would use drugs, they would use insane uh strobe
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: effects and those sorts of things to literally program a person.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: But Aaron Brown's got that TV money, he does.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: But no, But no, TV station's kind of fund like.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: And also they would have shown that like if they're
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: really trying. And again, the only reason I'm really being
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: so nitpicky on are.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: You asking him to violate the nineteen fifty two Hypnotism Act, Olivia.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: No, you know what, that's right, and I would never
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: do that. But I just want to say the only
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: reason I'm nitpicking about this at all because otherwise it's
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: a very fun trick or prank or whatever you want
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: to call it. I think, you know, it's decent television,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: But he just keeps referring, He just keeps comparing it
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: to Sir Hans Sirhan's you know, programming, And I just
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: don't think that that connection is valid at all, because
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: he is not drawing a random person who doesn't know
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: who he is and has never had a connection to it.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: He's drawing from people who not only know who he is,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: but went to his show and wanted to be a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: part of something like that.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean Sir Hans Sirhan wasn't profiled in
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: some way.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Oh no, absolutely not. No, I'm not saying that, that's
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: not what I'm saying, but that in.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: That case what's the difference. Darren Brown's just profiling. Because
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: even that, like, if you were in the audience at
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: a Darren Brown show, you're probably not the person who's
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: going to end up And I mean you specifically, I
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: mean you mean I don't think I would be the
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: person who gets pulled out of this audience to shoot
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Stephen Fry.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: No, but also like that, it's that selection tech Again,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: the selection technique isn't for mind control. The selection technique
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: is for people who will just kind of go along
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: with It's kind of like the push. It's like, oh,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: we'll just kind of go along with what they're doing.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: I just it's the it's the Sirhan Sirhan connection alone
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: that I really have like a logical problem with. I
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: just don't think it works as a as an analogy.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, like he does get up and he
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: shoots Stephen Fry and it's very weird that no one
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: in the audience reacts.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the people are just like oh shit.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: And then you find out that the people weren't there
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: just to see Stephen Fry as the program had said
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: that they were. Again, this is I thought. Yes, he
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: says in the program that the people speaking. There were
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: two audiences that he refers to at different points in
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: the voiceover. But the audience at the Stephen Fry thing
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: was told that they had no idea that anything was
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: going to happen, but they all knew that they were
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: there and that Darren Brown was involved with stuff because
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: they had to sign you know, giveaways, and so when
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: it happened, people just kind of knew what was You
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: know that something weird was going on.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: But that's probably for the best.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean sure, And again I'm not saying this.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: Is but because of this is because that was That
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: was my question too, is holy shit, someone's shooting in
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: a packed theater. They're not all up and running right
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: now like I was.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: It's also not America, so they don't know exactly what
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: to do in that kind of.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Sound.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: But no, Like, my my big point though, is not
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: that that is any of this is wrong or fishy
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: or or bad for the for the experiment, but it's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: it's the trick is on us, the viewers. Like that's
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: where the trick lies. That's just a further example of
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: he's using like because earlier again he uses a polygraph
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: test at an earlier point Chris does, and you know
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: he he passes the polygraph test even when he is
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: lying about things that we know that he did. But
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: a polygraph test is not an accurate reading of truth
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: and lie. And what it does measure really is anxiety
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: and nervousness and heart rate and that sort of thing.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: And if you are there knowing that you are just
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: a person in a in a TV show, none of
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: it's real, then you will probably have a positive result
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: when you're lying on that because it's not a big deal.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: You're not under investigation for a murder or anything. It's
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: just like a normal thing.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, Like I've never, I've never, Like I get
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: that polygraphs aren't admissible in court.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Not only are they not admissible in court, but they
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: are fully fallible. They are just not an accurate machine.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: Of course, but people do pass and fail them.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: Right, based on what a reader who has bias is
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: telling them, and you know, based on there's just no real.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: There just has to be so much widespread corruption for
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: this to be fake, like thegraph, No, not the polygraph,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: like what Darren Brown is doing in the Like I
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: don't that would be a whole conspiracy that all of
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: these people working on this project all like no. One
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, this is bullshit because it happened with
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: the Russian Roulette thing when they were like no, no, no,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: those are blanks.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: But no, I don't think that requires a conspiracy. It's
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: just how show business works. There's gonna be lots of
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: people who are in on stuff. And I'm not saying
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: that necessarily that they are telling this kid what to do. Again,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't require this doesn't require the kid to be
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: told a specific thing. It just requires him to have
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: gone through these steps that he has been going through
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: and understand that he this is a continue He was
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: given a case with a loaded gun in it and
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: sent to sit in an audience. I'm sorry, that is
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: just not a thing that is that happens.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: You have you ever seen Stephen Fry talk.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Well that is fair, and I have not, and I
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: imagine I would at least want something there every else
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: because that would be mean and illegal.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: But everyone gets a gun.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm just saying like he's he's received being
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: a gun and told that he is going to be
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: giving it to Darren Brown. So even if he doesn't
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: have specific instructions at this point, he knows what he's
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: got to do, and he knows that he's going to
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: be filmed and that this is going nothing bad is
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: going to happen. That's just how it is.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: There's only one way we're going to resolve this. We're
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: going to have to program someone to commit a murder
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: or at least a crime like it doesn't it can
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: it can be like a ransomware attack or something.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: No, if we can do this, if we can replicate
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: this with no camera trickery or anything, and just me
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: like being there and watching this whole process happen, then
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: I will fully admit that I'm wrong and that Darren
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: Brown is not a clever illusionist and mentalist, but is
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: in fact someone who can brainwash somebody into killing Stephen Fry.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: So, if you're willing to objectively participate in the experiment
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: with Olivia and I reach out on Twitter. We're looking
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: for and in a non partial audience, just we're going
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: to pick someone at random, right and.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Well, but see, but here's the thing. We can't this.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: It can't be from someone who listens to this show.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: That's a joke I was making, right.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm still taking this seriously. It would have
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: to be like someone from a Craigslist or something. Yeah,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to read this quick that I found.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: A friend of mine and his girlfriend were in the
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: audience of the Stephen Fry Talk and apparently they had
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: been up. They had applied to be involved in the
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Darren Brown show, but then received tickets for Stephen Fry Talk,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: so had a suspicion that Darren would be involved in
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: some way. And then during the talk, obviously, as was seen,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Steven was shot and it did all happen for real.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: They hurt the shots and saw Chris with the gun
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: above them, and then Darren Brown came on stage quite
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: quickly and explained the situation as we've seen, apparently all
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: the audience had to sign for him. It's not the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: leak anything out about the show, so it'd be a
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: surprise when it aired. So you know, I'm not doubting
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: that this event happened where a man fired blanks from
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: a balcony at Stephen Fry who had squibs in his jacket.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: But like I am, sorry, I just don't think that
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Darren Brown is a talented enough man to program someone
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: to murder. I just don't I think he's a very
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: talented entertainer and seems to be a really good showman
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: and illusionist and mentalist. But CIA programmer he is not.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: We got to get a CIA programmer on this episode,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: on this podcast, not this episode. That's unrealistic.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe he get that guy from that Jesse Ventura episode. Yeah,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: that guy, the ministeric goats guy. But the general was
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: like actually there and he seems like a fun interview.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: I think Ponytail guy would be fun too.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: I would just ask him to do karate on Maybe.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe we could just start another podcast where we just
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: interview people who were interviewed on conspiracy theory with Jesse Vazzia.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: That could be fun.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: That would be a whole lot of fun. Uh well,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: until we get that podcast fired up. I think this
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: is an episode. You can watch this Darren Brown special
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: on YouTube. Yeah, watch it and decide for yourself exactly.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: I still buy Sir Hans. Sir Hans's story over the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: government story. I mean day, I'd.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Buy almost anybody's story over the government story about anything,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: you know. I don't know what happened with Robert Kennedy.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know, and no one will ever know probably no,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: of course, that'll that'll just be lost to the sands
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: of time. But like, do I believe that it's possible
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: for a government agency or something like that to program
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: something to someone to do some thing that they might
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: otherwise not be inclined to do. Absolutely, Do I think
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: Darren Brown did it in this episode TV? No, I
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: do not. I'm sorry, but like I think it was,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty fun. I probably I might watch The Push.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: It didn't really strike me as something that I would
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: find super interesting.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, I think The Push is distressing, yeah,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: because it's one of those where he he asks people
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: to be a part of the show, right, but then
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: he tells him like they didn't get it, and he
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: just doesn't follow up.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing that he does a lot. He
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: like interviews people and then like six months later he
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: like actually puts them in something.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he just starts intervening in your life
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: right over ways like the CIA.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I would never go to a Darren
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: Brown audition call because I would never be able to
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: trust anything that ever happens ever again.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: But that that's what he does with The Push, and
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: eventually these people get catering jobs, right, Yeah, and at
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: this catering job, all this insane shit happens, right that
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: culminates in them being coerced into pushing someone off. Yeah,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: and like and you know, and likes stressing to watch, right, And.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I, like I said, I hate prank shows. I just
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: don't find them fun at all. Basically, I just don't
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: find them entertaining.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's a psychological experiment in it.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so like I just probably won't watch watch
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: the Push because it sounds like an even worse prank show.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: But I mean so like because in that one, like again,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: those people are coming away from that like fuck right,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: well and kind of person who would commit murder.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: And then there's people like when I was again, when
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: I was doing research for this episode, I came across
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: people on comments and forums all over the internet who
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: were basically like calling for those people who actually did
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: push the guy off to like be arrested and shit.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: And I think maybe if that is the result of
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: your prank show, then maybe you shouldn't have done that.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: That's kind of fucked up.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: You might have crossed the line.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: Like that's you know, I'm not saying that, like you
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: can't ever do anything that pushes boundaries. But like Jesus Man,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: like you shouldn't have like literal like mobs after people
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: because they, you know, were put into a situation that
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: was unreasonable. I would probably kill someone in that situation,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: Fuck eh it like no, no, that's not That's definitely
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: one where I'm sure he had to screen pretty hard.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure, I know he puts a lot of
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: work into this. It takes a lot of effort.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Like which, here's the thing I brought up the assassins earlier. Yeah,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: the North Korea documentary. It is not unlike a Darren
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: Brown experiment because they take two completely innocent women and
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: turn them into assassins in the span of about a month,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: and the whole time the girls have no idea that's happening.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why you never take part in a
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: prank show ever, exactly. You never know it could. And
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: I'm only kind of being half serious about this because like, again,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: that's not proving that anyone can be programmed to murder
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: someone against their will. That's just proving that if you
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: put someone in the right situation, then they can be
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: you know, framed for something that they weren't otherwise willing
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: to do, like yeah, yeah, and again I'm not saying
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: that Sir Hunt, that's not what happened with Sir Hunt.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: Sir Hunt, but like sir was on a prank show, right, yeah.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe he was, Yeah, maybe he thought he was
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: gonna be on like to tell the truth or something.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of like old laughing. Yeah, so
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: Laughing obviously, No it's not, but it's okay.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah. So anyway, this show is it's interesting. I
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: might watch a couple more of his things. I really
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: don't want to watch the Push. It just doesn't sound
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: like something I would like to find.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: The other episodes of the show.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: There's only yeah, right, there's only that's British TV for it,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: you know they do like.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: For yeah, there's I think this is the one where
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: he coerces someone into confessing to the death of a celebrity,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: which is the one you said you you saw part
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: of Yeah. Uh, there's one about the science of luck,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: which that sounds the least if no one's getting abused, yeah.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, uh yeah, you know, and like
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: I want to say if you if you find any
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: of this stuff interesting, watch watch the Magic Magic School.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: People give magic a really bad rap. But like, uh,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, and I know that Pendula is kind
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: of a weird fucking guy now, but like watch any
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: of their Pen and Teller's magic shows where they kind
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: of go into a lot of the stuff that we're
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: talking about while also doing magic tricks or fool Us,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: which was their British TV show where they like have
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: people on to do these sorts of tricks, not like exactly,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: but mentalists go on there and then they either guess
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: or don't guess how the trick was done. A good show,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: so but yeah, like that sounds Have you not seen
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: fool Us? I highly recommend that it's it's really good.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's because it's all like amateurs and stuff
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: who are trying to get big, so it's really cool. Nice,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like I don't know, I'm kind of mixed
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: on Darren Brown as a guy. I'm not super into him.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes and goes, and he is definitely in
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: recent years waiting into just kind of terrorizing people can get.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: Them, And yeah, it's like the David Blaine thing. He's
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: just kind of his fame as a magician kind of
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: went to his head, and now his things are just
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger and more elaborate. And I just
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: find that way less compelling than his older stuff that
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: I watched, where he's just kind of doing card tricks
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: for a guy, and yeah, that's that's a talent that
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: I can really admire. I can't. Like, it's hard for
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: me to admire the talent to put on a giant
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: stage production to convince someone to commit murder. It's less admirable.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: You know. Here's here's kind of my other problem with it.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: It's the same problem I had, like after nine to
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: eleven when there would be all these news reports about
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: like see these nuclear reactors here, Yeah, any terrorists could
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: blow them up like at any second, And it's like, well,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: don't say that, like you you don't say that publicly,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: and with stuff like this, if the government's not doing it,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: like if they weren't before Dark Brown, right they are now?
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean maybe, but again, I just don't think
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: that these are.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: Very good methods for doing that. The government would have
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: way better methods.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, but that's not comforting.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not trying to be comforting. I'm just saying, like,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: you know, the government doesn't need to watch a TV
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: show and be like, oh, look at this guy doing
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: stage hypnosis. I bet we could do something like that.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: They've been doing MK ultra for years, like you know,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: so they already they're way ahead of Darren Bran And.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: If this was the whole culmination of mk ulture, they
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: were just like, we got to get into the Frank.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say, we have got to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: get rid of Stephen fry.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: That would have been very funny too. It's just an
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: elaborate plot six to kill Stephen fryed.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: Right decades long?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: What did he do?
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: This guy's gonna become a huge transphobe in the future.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that, So I think that's an episode.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: It definitely is.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: We did it. This episode was longer than I thought
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: it was gonna be. It's very fun, though, there's a.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: Lot of stuff to go over with this, like you know, so, yeah,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: I liked it.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Darren Brown's a complex figure.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: Weird guy. Chill out Darren. Yeah, I definitely. I would say.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: I don't normally end a podcast by saying, well, we've
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: presented the evidence, go to side for yourself, but in
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: this case, just fucking go watching Darren Brown stuff and
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: take your temp after. Yeah, how you feel?
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this episode's on YouTube. You can watch it.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: It's gonna sit with you one way or another.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, do we have anything to plug before we get
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: out of here?
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: Uh? Same as always. Find me on Twitter and twitch
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: at high There hidar. That's about it right now.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: Uh. Patreon dot com, slash on Pops on popsnetwork, dot Supercast,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: dot tip. You can subscribe to Conspiracy Show for four
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: dollars a month heller, subscribe to everything on the network
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: for ten dollars a month, or just keep listening for free.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: We love you either way. All right, let's get out
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: of here. Olivia say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye everybody. We love you.