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UnchainedTV - TransFARMation: The Movement to Free us from Factory Farming · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:01
Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast.
0:04
I am your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
0:07
Wow, do we have an extraordinary guest for you today.
0:11
The amazing Leah Garces, President of Mercy for Animals,
0:15
and she is the author of this blockbuster game-changing
0:19
new book, Transformation,
0:21
the movement to free us from factory farming.
0:25
Amazing, it's truly a game changer without further ado.
0:30
Oh, let's go straight out to Leah Garces herself.
0:33
Leah, just tell us in essence why you wrote this book.
0:36
What is your bottom line message?
0:39
Yeah, I wrote this book because I wanted to tell a story
0:45
about people and animals closest to factory farming
0:48
and how they were finding a way out to give us all hope
0:51
that if they can find a way out,
0:53
we can all find a way out of factory farming.
0:56
Well, it's so extraordinary
0:58
because I think it's the thing that our society needs
1:01
more than anything else right now.
1:03
And it's not just a book, it's a movement
1:06
and Mercy for Animals has taken a lot of action.
1:09
You've actually sent us some video
1:11
of what you've been up to.
1:13
So let us show that video
1:15
and then we will discuss it on the other side.
1:18
One, two, three.
1:21
Ah!
1:21
Woo!
1:25
We are here for a ribbon cutting ceremony
1:28
of our very first transformation hub here in North Carolina.
1:32
It demonstrates everything we're moving away from
1:36
and everything we're moving towards,
1:38
which is a life after factory farming.
1:41
It is so significant we're doing this in North Carolina.
1:44
North Carolina has some of the highest concentration
1:46
of both pig and chicken factory farms
1:49
and it's growing.
1:51
So we are right in the heart of it,
1:53
showing that we are resisting factory farming
1:56
and building a new, better way.
2:05
My family is very, very excited
2:07
because they used to work with me
2:09
at the poultry house back then.
2:11
And right now, I transitioned from poultry to a greenhouse.
2:16
They're very excited and very happy for me
2:18
on what I've been doing.
2:20
Oh, wow.
2:21
One of the big takeaways that I got watching this
2:24
is that the chicken farmers
2:27
are not the bad guys necessarily.
2:30
They're also victims of industrialized animal agriculture.
2:35
They are also trapped in this terrible system
2:38
that leaves them in debt.
2:39
Tell us about that
2:40
and what happened with that particular farm.
2:45
Yeah, Jane, the typical system
2:47
is that there is a person living
2:50
in some rural part of America
2:52
and they wanna maintain a way of life.
2:55
They want to either stay on the land
2:57
because their family has owned it for generations
2:59
or they want to raise a family there.
3:01
And there's not a lot of employment.
3:03
And so the chicken industry comes to town
3:05
and they offer them a contract.
3:06
And they say, all you have to do
3:08
is take out about a million dollars or more from the bank
3:12
to build structures, to build a factory farm.
3:15
And we'll arrange that loan for you.
3:17
And then we will bring you chickens.
3:19
And with the money that you get per flock,
3:22
you get to pay back that loan.
3:24
So it's like a mortgage.
3:25
They take these giant loans out.
3:27
And at first it seems great
3:29
because they're their own business person.
3:31
They're living out their life
3:32
in the rural area they wanted to,
3:34
but it's a factory farm.
3:35
So chickens start to get sick, they start dying
3:38
and the farmers don't get paid
3:39
if those animals don't make it.
3:42
And so the mortgage stays the same
3:44
but the payment starts getting less and less and less.
3:46
And soon they realize that they're completely trapped
3:49
and they are essentially all but indentured servants.
3:53
And by then it's too late, they're stuck
3:55
and they're stuck in this cycle of debt.
3:58
And not only that, if they get close to paying off
4:02
their debt, what happens is the company comes back
4:05
and says, actually we need you to do some upgrades now.
4:08
We need you to take another million dollars
4:10
because the technology has changed.
4:11
We need you to have new systems in place.
4:14
And then they take another loan out
4:16
and then they're behind again and again and again.
4:19
And this happens to farmers all over the country.
4:22
It is the way that chickens are raised in this country.
4:26
And it's through this indentured servitude
4:28
that contract farmers are stuck in.
4:31
So let me ask you a question.
4:33
How do they make that transition?
4:36
You describe basically a farm in North Carolina
4:41
going from poultry farming to plant-based
4:43
and I'd love to know more about what plants.
4:46
And how can they afford to make that transition
4:49
when they're already in debt?
4:50
Can you work us through the process?
4:52
Because obviously this would be an amazing thing
4:55
to happen at scale.
4:56
Yeah, and that's a really good question.
4:59
So most of the farmers that we work with
5:00
are very close to paying off their debt
5:03
and they're at that point at which the company
5:06
is telling them that they need to get another loan out.
5:08
And they're trying to decide, do we get further in debt?
5:11
Do we keep going or do we make a change?
5:13
And so this in one farmer in Texas,
5:15
they said, no, we're not getting another loan out.
5:17
We wanna make a change now.
5:19
And that's how they got in touch with us
5:21
and made the transition to hemp in that case.
5:25
With Tom Lynn, he had been raising chickens with a company
5:31
and they dropped his contract very suddenly.
5:34
And he was looking for an alternative way
5:36
to make ends meet.
5:38
And that's how he got in touch with us.
5:40
So in truth, if you add up all of the debts
5:45
that poultry contract farmers have,
5:47
it's about $5 billion.
5:50
So we cannot solve this by like one by one by one.
5:54
We are going to eventually need government intervention.
5:58
We're going to need big changes at scale.
6:01
Right now, we're just trying to do proof of concept.
6:05
We're trying to show this is the roadmap.
6:07
Farmers don't wanna do it like this.
6:08
If they're given an alternative,
6:10
they will move away from industrial animal agriculture
6:12
to specialty crops like mushrooms and microgreens
6:15
like you see in these videos.
6:16
There is the need for government and policy change
6:22
and subsidy shifts in order for this to succeed at scale.
6:26
Well, it's funny you should mention that
6:28
because I was reading the New York Times today
6:31
and let me just show you,
6:33
by the way, you're looking at footage
6:35
of this transformed poultry warehouse
6:39
that has now become this gorgeous
6:42
and sustainable and peaceful greenhouse producing,
6:47
I believe, microgreens.
6:49
Yep, that's right.
6:50
That's absolutely fantastic.
6:52
Look how clean it is compared to what a poultry,
6:57
CAFO-
6:58
Yeah, literally where they were raising chickens before
7:02
and we took the roof off.
7:03
We put corrugated plastic kind of material in there
7:07
and we're now growing microgreens,
7:09
which is when we looked at the different products
7:11
that farmers could make the most money on,
7:14
specialty mushrooms was the highest profit margin
7:17
and microgreens are the second.
7:19
And there's other things like strawberries and blueberries
7:23
and tomatoes and zinnia and like flowers
7:26
and a ton of other options.
7:28
And the great thing about this too
7:29
is unlike chicken farming where you can only do chickens
7:32
and that's it and you have to do it
7:34
the way the company tells you to do it
7:35
and you're not allowed to innovate or do anything better.
7:38
In this case, you can change your mind.
7:40
You can innovate as a farmer
7:41
as most farmers are very innovative, hardworking people.
7:45
They're given that freedom, that true economic freedom
7:47
that is denied in a factory farm setting.
7:50
And Tina says he will make millions.
7:53
I think we all hope she's right.
7:55
Here's a question from one of our viewers.
7:56
Do these reformed farmers become ambassadors
7:58
and assist with transitioning
8:00
their animal farmer neighborhoods?
8:02
That is such a great question.
8:04
So part of Mercy for Animals Transformation Project
8:07
is to do exactly that,
8:09
is we're trying to get eight to 10 farmers each year
8:12
who become spokespeople in their communities.
8:16
And they're really speaking about how to change,
8:20
why to change and even stopping and preventing
8:23
future farmers from making the same mistakes
8:25
they did in the past.
8:26
And we have a program that farmers can move through
8:29
where they even get media training.
8:31
We want this to be a ripple effect
8:33
where no one owns the idea and it's available to anyone.
8:38
We make the blueprints available,
8:40
the economic, the agriculture, you know,
8:44
spreadsheets available to any farmer who wants it.
8:47
And it's all about getting the idea out there
8:50
and creating that ripple effect
8:52
so anyone can transition who wants to
8:54
away from factory farming.
8:55
So here's the book,
8:56
Transformation, The Movement to Free Us
8:58
from Factory Farming.
8:59
I am listening to it on Audible as I walk my dogs
9:04
and I'm enjoying every second of it, learning so much.
9:07
So you can order it by just going to beacon.org,
9:11
B-E-A-C-O-N.org forward slash transformation.
9:16
Not transformation, even though it's a transformation,
9:18
it's transformation, a play on words.
9:21
I urge everybody to get it, whether you get it,
9:24
Kindle or hard copy or Audible,
9:27
do it because it's a roadmap for saving our planet,
9:31
saving our society, saving animals, saving our health.
9:35
And to that end, I wanna talk a little bit about,
9:38
okay, the New York Times.
9:40
This is the front page of the New York Times today.
9:43
And I'm not talking partisan politics here.
9:46
I'm talking about a $2.4 trillion debt
9:50
according to the nonpartisan budget office.
9:55
And yet still, despite all this,
9:57
the subsidies remain entrenched in these bills.
10:03
What drives me crazy is that we could radically
10:06
reduce healthcare costs and make people healthier
10:09
and give taxpayers more of their money back
10:13
if we stop subsidizing animal agriculture.
10:16
You talk about this in your book,
10:18
the subsidies to animal agriculture,
10:21
how they affect consumer buying patterns.
10:25
I don't call it capitalism.
10:27
I call it corporate socialism
10:29
because so much money is going to prop up this industry
10:33
and it's our tax dollars going to prop up the industry.
10:37
Can you break it down for us?
10:39
Could you really talk about this
10:40
very eloquently in your book?
10:43
Yeah, I recently heard Ethan Brown from Beyond Burger
10:46
put it so succinctly.
10:49
He said, factory farming is held together by duct tape,
10:52
subsidies, and antibiotics.
10:54
And really there are two pillars
10:56
that allow for factory farming to persist.
11:00
And one is subsidies and two is antibiotics.
11:03
And in the case of subsidies,
11:05
so much money is going to prop up this system.
11:10
It's a fraction.
11:11
A fraction goes to nuts and berries.
11:13
When you find it cheaper to buy chicken nuggets
11:17
than blueberries,
11:18
there is something really wrong with this system.
11:21
And it wouldn't be,
11:23
so one of our proposals
11:24
is that we really need to shift these subsidies
11:27
away from factory farming
11:28
and towards transitioning farmers
11:30
towards healthier food systems.
11:32
And it wouldn't be the first time
11:34
that we have done something like this.
11:36
In the Reagan administration,
11:38
there was a Tobacco Reform Act.
11:41
And that was where,
11:43
because there were health concerns,
11:45
the administration said,
11:46
we are no longer going to support tobacco farming.
11:50
Before that,
11:50
it was all supported by government subsidies,
11:53
government support, government quotas.
11:55
And the government said no more.
11:57
And they did a buyout program.
11:59
It was like a big program
12:01
where farmers could opt out of tobacco farming
12:04
and transition to something else.
12:06
And they were given a certain period of time.
12:08
And overnight, within one year or two years,
12:10
half of the farmers,
12:11
when they were offered this buyout,
12:13
transitioned to something else.
12:14
They got out of tobacco farming.
12:17
So we have a real model
12:19
for how we can move away.
12:21
And we've done it before in history
12:23
where we can move away from factory farming.
12:25
It only exists now
12:26
because of the support that it receives
12:28
through government subsidies.
12:29
Right now, even through avian flu,
12:31
where we're supporting through purchasing
12:34
of when animals get sick,
12:37
they're being reimbursed
12:38
when these animals are killed.
12:41
Instead of getting to the root of the cause
12:43
and saying, why are these animals sick
12:44
in the first place?
12:45
Because they're in filthy squalor conditions
12:48
where disease spreads easily.
12:50
So I really believe we already have a model
12:53
in history where this has occurred.
12:56
And we could repeat that.
12:58
Cory Booker has tried to do that
12:59
through the Farm Systems Reform Act.
13:02
And in that proposal,
13:03
he says that farmers would be given a debt cancellation
13:09
for any debt they have around contracts
13:11
and poultry or pigs.
13:13
And then they could transition
13:15
and get a certain amount of money
13:16
to transition to healthier food systems.
13:18
And so we have a model
13:20
and I feel like it's just time
13:22
to start moving towards that model.
13:24
And it very much fits honestly
13:25
with this idea of like no government waste.
13:27
We're wasting tons of money
13:29
just subsidizing and propping up factory farming.
13:33
I mean, that's the thing.
13:34
This is the era of let's cut.
13:37
We had Doge trying to cut everything
13:39
and obviously it was very controversial.
13:42
I'm not getting into that,
13:43
but if you are gonna cut
13:44
and your idea is to cut,
13:47
why not cut what is the most environmentally
13:52
destructive industry,
13:54
terrible for our health,
13:55
just devastating in so many ways.
13:58
And to that end,
13:59
Mercy for Animals was featured recently
14:02
here in Los Angeles.
14:03
We had LA Climate Week.
14:06
As part of that,
14:07
we had the West Hollywood Food Day
14:09
with Plant Based Treaty
14:11
and the city of West Hollywood
14:12
discussing food systems.
14:15
Mercy for Animals had a representative there
14:18
and she made some incredible points
14:20
about the destructiveness of animal agriculture
14:23
and how we have to address this as a society.
14:27
Along with a delicious plant-based spread,
14:29
speakers laid out why going plant-based
14:32
is absolutely crucial.
14:34
Animal agriculture is one of the leading causes
14:36
of climate change and water and air pollution,
14:39
but it is the single leading cause
14:41
of deforestation, species extinction,
14:43
biodiversity loss, ocean acidification,
14:46
ocean dead zones, soil erosion.
14:48
I mean, there are so many things
14:50
that this industry contributes to.
14:53
And I think that's a really great way
14:55
to start relating to other people.
14:57
Everyone cares about something
14:59
and we can tap into their passions
15:01
to drive them to action.
15:02
West Hollywood has now made history.
15:05
All of their official city events
15:07
are now plant-based by default.
15:10
West Hollywood Mayor Chelsea Byers
15:12
revealed that all she needed
15:13
was a little push from advocacy groups.
15:16
What it took for me was just hearing
15:18
that this idea was out there.
15:19
When Mercy for Animals started knocking on my inbox
15:22
and asking me as somebody who was situated
15:24
as, you know, in my bio,
15:26
it said I cared about climate change.
15:28
Our city was a city in our climate action plan
15:30
that addressed factory farming
15:31
and mass agriculture as a problem with climate change.
15:34
So there was sort of all of this in a matrix
15:36
that would line up and be like,
15:37
yeah, that makes sense to go target them.
15:39
But now what else makes sense?
15:41
So you are doing so much at Mercy for Animals.
15:45
The organization was mentioned several times
15:48
also by an official from the LA County Supervisor's Office
15:53
who talked about all the ways you're working
15:56
with the LA County Supervisors.
15:58
The most populous county in the United States
16:03
with a population greater than 40 US states combined.
16:08
So first of all, kudos to all those things
16:10
that you're doing.
16:12
Tell us a little bit about that
16:13
because it seems like you're having some impact
16:15
on local governments and yet the federal government
16:17
seems to remain immovable.
16:20
Yeah, I think the federal government
16:21
is a really challenging place to make progress,
16:23
but cities and states and counties
16:26
are a wonderful place to make progress, especially cities.
16:29
And as you just pointed out,
16:31
West Hollywood has adopted a plant-based by default policy,
16:35
which means that all of their events,
16:36
and they host a giant pride event, by the way,
16:39
like a massive pride event,
16:40
one of the most attended pride events in the country.
16:43
And everything there that is hosted by the city
16:45
will be plant-based by default.
16:48
And this is a very good policy
16:52
in terms of what we call nudge, don't judge.
16:55
We were inviting people to try plant-based
16:58
without forcing it on them.
16:59
So you're saying, we're not taking away your options.
17:01
You can still add them if you want to,
17:03
but our first offering will be plant-based.
17:06
And there's been studies done that,
17:08
there was a study done where you compared a conference.
17:11
In one conference, they offered the meat as the default
17:15
and you had to add the vegan option.
17:17
And the other one, they had the vegan
17:19
and you had to add the meat as the default.
17:22
And when they did that,
17:23
there was an 80% reduction in meat consumption
17:26
when you had the vegan by default policy.
17:29
Meaning most people are just going along with the flow.
17:32
They're going with the flow.
17:33
And very few, especially for one meal,
17:36
are just gonna add it on intentionally
17:38
and choose to have it.
17:39
They're willing to try things
17:40
that are just put in front of them
17:41
and that everyone is doing around them.
17:43
So we're really capitalizing
17:45
on that sort of psychological flow that people are in.
17:49
And we're looking at counties and cities
17:52
that could adopt a default policy.
17:56
And really most counties and cities
17:58
have some kind of policy around reducing emissions.
18:01
And what's become very, very clear
18:03
is we are not going to reach our climate change goals.
18:06
That goal of reducing,
18:08
keeping the planet no hotter than 1.5 degrees Celsius
18:10
if we don't address food.
18:12
And within food, if we don't address meat, dairy, and eggs.
18:16
And Mercy for Animals sees this as a priority
18:19
in terms of a way to tackle reducing suffering of animals
18:24
and a way to tackle ending factory farming.
18:26
Yes, and reducing the suffering of animals, obviously key.
18:31
And we don't wanna give you too much unpleasant footage.
18:35
People don't wanna see it, but yet that is the reality.
18:39
There's no nice way to kill more than 80 billion animals,
18:42
which is what we're doing in today's society.
18:45
And sadly, let's just talk a little bit
18:48
about the unfortunate stats.
18:50
The meat consumption is still going up.
18:53
You address this in your book saying that
18:55
from 2007 to 2014, meat consumption actually declined
19:00
and then it turned around and started climbing again.
19:03
What do you make of it?
19:05
Yeah, and I don't know if you remember, Jane,
19:07
that moment where we were like, we're winning, we're winning.
19:10
And it wasn't, we were not winning.
19:11
What was happening was that other economic factors
19:16
were playing, were causing some decision-making.
19:20
So meat prices went up.
19:22
That was the big factor.
19:23
So we had the recession in 2008.
19:28
So people had less money to spend.
19:30
And then we had corn prices just skyrocket.
19:33
Corn is fed to chickens.
19:34
Chicken prices went up as a result.
19:36
And then there was also some disease outbreaks in pigs
19:39
that caused further problems in terms of price.
19:43
So basically the cost of meat went up dramatically
19:47
and people had less money to spend.
19:49
So that combination meant people started eating less meat.
19:54
And we thought we were winning,
19:55
but it turned out it was just economic,
19:58
economy playing, putting into play.
20:01
And, but that does give us a clue, I think,
20:04
as to what we need to do.
20:07
And what I think needs to happen is meat, dairy and eggs
20:10
needs to bear the true cost,
20:11
which is why we need to get rid of the subsidies.
20:14
We can't outsource the pain and suffering
20:16
to vulnerable populations like workers, farmers and animals.
20:20
And if we had the true cost,
20:23
if we had the true cost of meat,
20:25
it would be probably four or five times what it costs.
20:28
And that would automatically cause people
20:30
to eat dramatically less as a result.
20:33
I love the fact that you're focusing on poultry farms,
20:36
although I know you're also gonna include pig farms,
20:40
hog farms, because chickens are by far,
20:42
if you look at these stats,
20:44
the number one animal for food.
20:47
And so if we actually just won on chickens,
20:52
that would be extraordinary.
20:54
And some of these chickens are killed for eggs.
21:00
Male chicks are macerated.
21:01
Now with bird flu causing egg prices to go up,
21:05
you're seeing a skyrocketing consumption
21:08
of plant-based eggs.
21:10
We've interviewed Josh Tetrick, the founder of Just Eggs,
21:13
and he's told us that his sales are shooting up.
21:18
So there is an alternative.
21:19
It's not a sacrifice.
21:21
So let's get back to the chicken farm
21:24
that you've transitioned and tell us,
21:28
it seems like, wow, it's fantastic,
21:30
but it's obviously a very in-depth process.
21:33
What I've heard is that some of these chicken warehouses
21:37
are so filled with toxicity and dirt
21:42
that they can't be easily transitioned
21:44
because they're just so filthy and so toxic.
21:48
So what are some of the challenges?
21:50
Yeah, certainly.
21:51
I mean, we can't grow things right in the ground
21:53
in these places because it's full of dust and ammonia
21:56
and toxicity, as you mentioned.
21:57
So that would be brought into the plants
22:00
and then we couldn't sell those.
22:01
So one of the most viable options is mushrooms.
22:05
And Tom Lim in this clip that you're seeing here,
22:10
he's actually growing mushrooms in a container.
22:12
So imagine like a cargo container, we put HVAC in it.
22:17
We have the old shelves that used to be used for chicken,
22:20
like barriers and dividers are being used.
22:24
And so that's a contained environment
22:26
that can be put anywhere.
22:27
It could be put inside the greenhouse
22:29
or it could be put outside of the greenhouse.
22:33
So that's a really viable option
22:34
when the ground isn't safe.
22:38
The other is what you're seeing in these clips,
22:40
which is these raised beds.
22:41
So putting in raised beds,
22:43
but then you're using the warehouse as a greenhouse.
22:46
So you reconstruct it, it's the same frame,
22:49
but you're allowing light to come in and air to come in.
22:53
So there's definitely challenges in using the equipment
22:58
and sort of upcycling the equipment,
23:00
but these farmers are so creative
23:03
and they're so willing and innovative
23:06
that we're coming up with all kinds of solutions.
23:08
And this is just one option.
23:09
This is sort of one way a farmer's doing it.
23:12
We have another farmer in Iowa
23:14
who's strictly doing mushrooms
23:16
and that's the Fauborg family.
23:19
And they used to raise pigs for a company.
23:22
We have others that are doing,
23:24
they used to raise chickens
23:25
and they're growing cherry tomatoes and zinnia.
23:29
So the options are kind of unlimited
23:32
depending on how a farmer, what they're motivated by
23:35
and also what their local market looks like.
23:37
So the one that's doing zinnia
23:39
and she's also doing peppers,
23:41
like ghost peppers and tomatoes,
23:44
she's got a partnership with a local caterer
23:48
who will just take everything
23:50
and anything she has that is fresh.
23:51
So she grows this stuff, she brings it to the caterer,
23:54
he does like weddings and events and things like that.
23:57
So it kind of depends on the local market too.
23:59
But what it does allow for is a lot of economic freedom,
24:02
a lot of innovativeness from the farmer
24:06
and really building that local economy.
24:10
I wish that every single member of Congress
24:15
were forced to read your book.
24:18
Is there any way you can deliver it at least
24:20
to every single congressional office and give it to them?
24:24
I'd be happy to start a Kickstarter to make that happen.
24:27
You know what?
24:27
That's not a bad idea, Jane.
24:29
I like that idea.
24:30
I might circle back with you
24:31
and bring the book to Congress.
24:34
I love that idea.
24:35
Absolutely.
24:36
I mean, it would be also great
24:39
from a social media perspective
24:40
to show you delivering the books
24:43
and then follow up and say,
24:44
have you read the book?
24:46
Because there's solutions there.
24:49
They say there's no way to convince somebody
24:53
of a solution that's going to cost them money.
24:58
But truly, I think what's happening right now
25:01
with such a focus on saving money,
25:04
it can be, I would call politically neutral.
25:07
This is not a left or a right even issue.
25:11
It's a question of a waste of taxpayer money,
25:14
which is a bipartisan concern.
25:16
And I think that there's a way to bypass
25:19
the partisan political divide
25:23
and just say, this is a complete waste of money.
25:26
And the amazing thing is that
25:29
if they were to stop subsidizing animal agriculture,
25:34
making the true cost of cheap hamburgers,
25:40
double cheeseburgers, milkshakes,
25:43
what they should cost,
25:45
people would switch to healthy food
25:46
and the healthcare costs in America would drop.
25:50
In your book, you talk about the fact
25:52
that processed meat is cancer causing,
25:55
that red meat is a likely carcinogen,
25:57
that people are dying of heart attacks
25:59
from food packed with cholesterol.
26:02
There's no cholesterol in vegan products.
26:04
I mean, it's a win, win, win, win, win,
26:07
like for everybody moving away
26:09
from this unhealthy food system.
26:11
I always tell people about chicken.
26:12
Chicken is so unbelievably unsafe in this country.
26:19
It concerns me when anybody is eating it.
26:22
It literally has to be dipped in chlorine in this country.
26:26
Chicken is dipped in chlorine
26:28
before it is sold to consumers.
26:31
And if you don't believe me, Google that, it's true.
26:34
And it's so true that Europe will not accept our chickens
26:38
because it's dipped in chlorine,
26:39
because that's against the law in Europe.
26:41
So, and why is our chicken dipped in chlorine?
26:44
Because it's full of salmonella,
26:47
it's full of campylobacter.
26:49
It has, chicken is considered one of the highest sources
26:52
of campylobacter poisoning in this country.
26:55
And it's concerning to me
26:57
that we have a food system like that.
27:00
And if you add in the fact that all of our meat
27:04
is propped up by antibiotics
27:07
and antibiotics are being used to protect these animals
27:10
in filthy environments.
27:13
And instead of cleaning up the environment,
27:14
we're just feeding them antibiotics
27:16
to both protect them from disease,
27:18
but also to help them grow faster
27:21
because they discovered the antibiotics
27:22
help the animals grow really, really big, really fast.
27:25
And we're wasting vital antibiotics
27:29
that could be used for ourselves.
27:30
And we may have a future where antibiotics don't work
27:33
because we've wasted them on tortured animals, essentially.
27:37
By the way, we get a great comment from one of our viewers.
27:41
This is a very interesting program.
27:43
As an abolitionist, I would not have given a moment
27:45
to animal welfare groups,
27:46
but this program is changing my view on MFA,
27:49
which is doing excellent work for animal liberation.
27:51
Oh, thank you, I appreciate that.
27:54
Yeah, I will say like, I'm both,
27:56
I'm an abolitionist and I'm a pragmatist.
27:59
So I both think about, and the kind of way I look at it,
28:05
the analogy I often use is imagine
28:07
that you're a prisoner in death row
28:10
and you're in horrible conditions.
28:12
Would you want somebody advocating
28:14
both for making your conditions less horrible
28:17
while also at food?
28:19
I don't want a single animal to suffer for that.
28:21
And I think of the pragmatic steps to get there,
28:24
which is like increasing the cost
28:25
and making it, internalizing the cost
28:29
so that people eat less and move us in the right direction.
28:32
I think we need both of those approaches.
28:34
Absolutely, I agree with you a hundred percent.
28:36
And, you know, I just wanna say that
28:40
you raise the issue of cruelty to animals.
28:43
And one of the most unconscionable aspects
28:46
of industrialized agriculture is what they're doing
28:49
to chickens and other animals, pigs,
28:52
culling them in a process called ventilation shutdown,
28:55
VSD or VSD plus.
28:58
This is a very sick, it makes my stomach just go in knots
29:02
when I look at this.
29:03
They're roasting this poor animal alive as a test.
29:08
Ventilation shutdown has been described
29:10
as a brutal painful method of animal depopulation.
29:13
These mass killings deviate
29:14
from normal slaughterhouse procedures
29:16
and are now being used in the pork and poultry industries.
29:20
And according to one report,
29:23
more than 300 million poultry birds
29:25
have been killed since 2021.
29:27
I know the figure is even higher now.
29:29
Unfortunately, instead of putting these companies
29:32
out of business, again, the taxpayers are being forced
29:36
to subsidize this horror.
29:39
2000 veterinarians have signed a letter saying
29:41
it is not acceptable.
29:44
Oh, what are your thoughts on ventilation shutdown?
29:47
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up
29:48
because I feel like it's really gone under the radar lately.
29:53
You know, ventilation shutdown,
29:54
imagine like you're on the New York City subway.
29:57
Imagine you're, it's crowded, it's rush hour.
30:00
And then all of a sudden all the windows are blocked.
30:04
All of the ventilation is shut
30:06
and you're inside of this thing with tons of people.
30:09
It gets hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter.
30:12
There's less and less oxygen until you pass out
30:14
and then you die.
30:15
That is what happens in ventilation shutdown.
30:18
This is an approved method for disposing of sick animals.
30:23
It is unbelievably cruel and it should be illegal.
30:26
But instead they get payouts from the government
30:31
for doing this, the companies themselves,
30:33
the farmers themselves.
30:34
So instead of a company having to pay for this,
30:37
so if let's say Tyson were to have to actually pay for this,
30:41
you can bet that they would solve it.
30:44
But instead they're just getting a band-aid.
30:46
They're just getting a paycheck.
30:48
So they don't think twice about trying to solve this.
30:50
They think there's another bunch of chickens
30:52
that are gonna come along and it doesn't matter.
30:54
So this is horrifically cruel.
30:57
It's solvable.
30:58
It should not be happening.
30:59
And if we made companies pay for this loss,
31:03
for the loss of animals, they would solve it.
31:05
They would not keep letting it happen.
31:07
But instead our tax dollars are going to pay
31:08
for this cruelty.
31:10
So, I mean, where does that leave?
31:12
It seems to me as we're discussing this,
31:15
and again, you gotta get this book
31:17
because it's filled with hope.
31:19
What I like about the book is,
31:20
honestly, I deal with so much depressing content
31:24
that sometimes I go, I can't handle it.
31:26
I just cannot watch another video of animals being tortured.
31:29
But this book gives us hope.
31:31
And just in the title, it says,
31:33
the movement to free us from factory farming.
31:37
And first of all, how can people,
31:40
the first thing you can do is get the book.
31:42
I'm listening to it on Audible,
31:43
which is my preferred way of listening to books,
31:47
consuming books these days,
31:48
because I have two dogs
31:49
that I walk long distances every day,
31:51
and I listen to probably three books a week.
31:53
But you can go to beacon.org forward slash transformation,
31:58
and you can get this, however you like to read books,
32:00
Kindle, listen to them, hard copy, whatever, but get it.
32:05
So now that people have it,
32:06
how can they be part of the solution?
32:09
Obviously we need governments to change.
32:11
We need individual farmers to change.
32:13
We need the big ag monoliths to change.
32:16
But how about the average person?
32:18
Yeah, I really believe in the individual's ability
32:21
to change things.
32:22
I think individual action creates collective action.
32:25
Collective action puts pressure on markets,
32:28
and market pressure puts pressure on the companies
32:30
and the governments that we're trying to change.
32:32
So your choices really matter,
32:35
whether it's eating one forkful different
32:38
or one plate different, one meal different,
32:41
a week different, or changing your whole diet, that helps.
32:44
Every time you make a different choice in your diet,
32:47
it's reducing suffering,
32:48
and it's helping to support farmers and a food system
32:51
that is more humane, sustainable,
32:54
and moving in the right direction away from factory farming.
32:57
And I went, Jane, I also feel sad and pessimistic sometimes,
33:03
and I needed to write this book to show that there is hope.
33:07
I went into the field,
33:08
and I interviewed dozens and dozens of people
33:11
who are fighting factory farming right where it is,
33:14
right next to factory farm,
33:15
whether it be community members
33:16
who are living next to factory farm,
33:18
farmers, even workers in the slaughterhouses,
33:20
and even animals.
33:21
There's a whole section on animals
33:23
who have escaped factory farms
33:25
and found places and sanctuaries.
33:27
So in my mind, if they can do it,
33:30
if these people who are, and animals,
33:32
these beings, every being who is right in the system
33:34
can escape it and can fight against it and build a new way,
33:38
so can each and every one of us.
33:41
So I love the, I have to say,
33:44
I'm not just saying this because I thought of it,
33:46
but I love the idea of you taking this book
33:48
and going from office to office in Congress.
33:51
And also state legislators too.
33:55
I've gone up to Sacramento, I don't know how many times,
33:58
and walked with various groups,
34:00
including Social Compassion and Legislation,
34:02
which does, tries to get legislation passed
34:04
here in California,
34:05
and go from office to office chatting with people.
34:08
A lot of times they're very inviting,
34:10
and they're like, sure, let's take this.
34:12
Somebody comes out of an office, say,
34:13
hey, we'd like you to read this.
34:16
And then when there's social media going on,
34:18
it puts a little pressure on them to read it.
34:20
And if they don't read it,
34:21
that doesn't make them look good.
34:22
If they do read it, maybe they'll wake up.
34:25
Do you see, given all the discussion
34:29
about how we are facing this extraordinary deficit
34:32
and we need to cut costs,
34:34
and unfortunately, of course,
34:36
there's a lot of controversy about programs
34:39
that are vital being cut,
34:40
but is there any movement in the Farm Bill,
34:44
which sets food policy for like the next five years?
34:48
If you look at the subsidies,
34:50
and please correct me if I'm wrong,
34:52
a lot of the subsidies are packed into that Farm Bill.
34:55
I know that they have not passed a final one yet,
34:59
is my understanding,
35:00
and it keeps getting kicked down the road.
35:03
Is there any effort to get into that Farm Bill
35:06
and get rid of some of those subsidies
35:09
that are literally destroying the health of Americans,
35:13
accelerating climate change,
35:14
creating the budget crisis?
35:17
The list goes on and on,
35:19
and it's right there staring them in the face,
35:22
and for some reason, they can't see it.
35:24
I mean, I really like your idea, Jane,
35:26
and we may be circling back on this.
35:28
I don't think there's enough going on in the Farm Bill.
35:31
It's always extremely difficult, I mean,
35:33
to address subsidies,
35:35
and we always have to try kind of backdoor entrances on this
35:39
to try to get something through.
35:42
So not enough is being done.
35:44
I like your idea, so maybe we'll be circling back
35:47
and thinking about how to do what you're talking about.
35:50
I mean, at the very least,
35:51
it'll lay down seeds for the next Farm Bill.
35:53
Yeah, and Tina Walker's like,
35:56
put them in libraries as well as schools,
35:58
college, universities.
36:00
Yeah, we're in 400 or so libraries now.
36:03
And by the way, all of the proceeds to this book
36:05
go to Mercy for Animals,
36:07
and so it's feeding the work that we do.
36:10
And yeah, the last number I had
36:12
was we're in over 400 libraries,
36:14
so you should be able to get it out of your library.
36:16
If not, you can ask for it.
36:17
Yeah, but I think it's very important
36:19
for people to buy the book
36:20
because when it becomes a New York Times bestseller,
36:24
that also gives it a lot of credibility.
36:27
And so I urge everyone as an act
36:29
of supporting this movement to order this book now.
36:33
Again, Beacon, B-E-A-C-O-N.org,
36:37
Forged Last Transformation.
36:39
So we only have a couple of minutes.
36:41
I wanna go into a little bit of in-depth
36:44
on exactly how this works.
36:47
You've seen the B-roll and the celebration,
36:50
but we do have a one on the details.
36:54
Let's break it down because a lot of people
36:56
are still wondering whether it's mushrooms
36:58
or how do you decide what product to grow
37:04
in place of animals?
37:05
Hi, my name is Kalomi Joshi.
37:07
I'm the demonstration hub project manager
37:09
with the Transformation Project at Mercy for Animals.
37:12
So on Tom Lind's farm,
37:14
he was producing 100,000 chickens probably monthly.
37:19
And what we have done is taken that
37:21
and shifted that operation to something more sustainable
37:25
and plant-based and achievable for farmers like Tom Lind.
37:29
We have our irrigation system
37:31
that you'll see the pipes coming into the raised bed.
37:34
Well, anything we could repurpose, we did,
37:36
but the plumbing and irrigation is all new.
37:39
Also just because the design of it
37:40
is different for the plants.
37:43
Along the wall, just so you're aware, this is a cool wall.
37:47
And if we actually walk towards it,
37:48
it has an AC type of feel,
37:52
but it helps with the fans,
37:54
which pulls this cool air across the greenhouse.
37:58
That's basically a cardboard structure
37:59
with water going through it.
38:01
And we're doing a little bit of physics
38:05
to get this cool air across.
38:07
I'm assuming this is newer, right?
38:09
This is new.
38:10
This is similar thing for the chickens, right?
38:11
That's right.
38:11
Same idea, but it's for greenhouses.
38:13
Correct, that is right.
38:15
Probably in about two to three weeks
38:16
is the turnaround time for these seeds
38:19
before they're transplanted
38:20
into their respective growing systems.
38:26
Yeah, we bring some farm ones for the buckets.
38:38
So exciting.
38:40
Let me ask you this.
38:42
How many do you think you're going to get going?
38:45
I know you said you wanted some of these farmers
38:48
who make this transition then to become ambassadors.
38:51
What are we, let's talk numbers.
38:52
I mean, how can we spread this?
38:55
Yeah, at the moment we have capacity
38:56
and funding for eight to 10 farmers per year.
38:59
So we think of it like how we do undercover investigations.
39:03
When we do an undercover investigation
39:04
into factory farming,
39:05
we're shining a light on this darkness.
39:06
We're telling a story.
39:08
This is the cruelty that is involved in factory farming.
39:11
And it is used as a sort of a beacon
39:13
to draw attention to the change that's needed.
39:16
This is the same thing we're doing with transformation.
39:18
We're doing eight to 10 transformations a year
39:20
and we're drawing attention
39:21
to this is the struggle that farmers have.
39:24
This is the path that we need to take
39:26
to get toward a better food and farming system.
39:29
And we want to use those eight to 10 transitions
39:31
to draw attention and build roadmaps
39:34
towards a better system.
39:36
Wow, it's just so amazing.
39:38
And I really feel like everybody needs to take part
39:41
by buying the book, first of all,
39:44
that is super important,
39:45
getting up to date on all the facts
39:48
and then supporting Mercy for Animals as well.
39:52
The book, all the proceeds go to Mercy for Animals
39:55
and you're doing all this incredible work.
39:58
So I just want to say, wow, I'm really blown away.
40:02
And Tiffany says, eight to 10 farms, excellent.
40:06
And then if you have this sort of exponential growth,
40:10
if those eight to 10 farms each get eight to 10 farms
40:14
and eight to 10 farms,
40:16
I wonder, my final question is,
40:19
okay, the farmers are gonna make more money
40:21
because one of the shockers in the book
40:23
was how little these farmers make per chicken.
40:26
Can you break that down?
40:28
And if indeed the farmers themselves
40:31
are gonna make more money
40:32
than it's in their self-interest,
40:35
wouldn't that translate to,
40:36
let's say the local government of North Carolina saying,
40:39
well, yeah, let's support this.
40:42
And the reason I think about that is I also remember
40:46
covering a terrible storm
40:49
where a lot of these concentrated animal feeding operations,
40:51
and I believe it was in the Carolinas,
40:54
were right in Florida.
40:56
And yet they just basically keep doing the same thing
41:02
even as climate change worsens
41:04
and those farms,
41:05
those concentrated animal feeding operations,
41:08
I don't call them farms, factory farms,
41:11
CAFOs are gonna get wiped out again.
41:14
How about going to like the North Carolina government
41:17
and seeing if they wanna get involved
41:19
if indeed the federal government is so intransigent?
41:23
Yeah, I think that's exactly the direction we wanna go in.
41:26
I mean, a farmer, this will shock people,
41:29
a chicken farmer makes 5 cents per pound of chicken,
41:33
5 cents.
41:34
A chicken is about four pounds to six pounds.
41:37
So we're talking about 20 cents per chicken
41:40
that they're making.
41:41
It's unbelievable.
41:42
And you are paying at the grocery store
41:43
a dollar per pound, so like $4 for a chicken.
41:48
So they're receiving a fraction.
41:50
The rest is going to the company
41:52
and to all of the other marketing
41:54
and distribution processes.
41:57
So a farmer has a vested interest
41:59
in transitioning something like mushrooms
42:01
if they can sell it directly,
42:02
where they could make $6 a pound.
42:04
They could make so much more money
42:06
for a specialty mushroom like a shiitake mushroom.
42:10
And so it's really getting the money right to the farmer,
42:13
right in the economy that is most needed,
42:16
right in that rural economy,
42:17
rather than winding the pockets of 100 people
42:20
that have nothing to do with raising the chicken
42:22
and doing the farming.
42:24
Wow, well, I just wanna say thank you.
42:26
I know you're an extraordinarily busy person
42:28
for taking this time to talk to Unchained TV.
42:32
Everybody out there, get this book, okay?
42:35
I'm telling you, you need to get it.
42:37
It's a fun read.
42:40
I like the way you break up the personal stories
42:42
with sort of the policy issues.
42:44
Just as like when you're getting a little bit on the policy,
42:47
boom, we get another personal story.
42:49
So it's very well woven.
42:52
And I wanna just, because I know how people are,
42:55
what, where do you get it?
42:56
People are still asking.
42:57
Yes, of course you can get it on Amazon.
42:59
And if that's where you wanna order it, go ahead,
43:01
but you can go to beacon.org forward slash transformation
43:06
and get it as well.
43:07
And I urge everybody to do that immediately.
43:10
And of course, while we're asking folks to do that,
43:14
we always ask people to please download Unchained TV.
43:18
We are the world's only
43:19
a nonprofit vegan streaming network,
43:22
absolutely 100% free, 2,000 videos and counting.
43:27
You can download us on your phone
43:28
and text those videos to your friends.
43:30
You can download those on the TV.
43:33
There's the TV behind me that is playing this.
43:36
I'll be playing it as soon as it's over to watch it.
43:38
And you can also watch it online.
43:41
So please do that.
43:42
So it's a vegan Netflix.
43:44
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
43:46
I love Unchained TV.
43:48
Unchained, Unchained TV.
43:50
Your life will change, it's just that easy.
43:52
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for everybody.
43:55
Unchained TV changed my life.
43:57
Unchained TV is crushing it.
44:01
I love Unchained TV.
44:02
Unchained TV is my go-to.
44:05
Unchained TV.
44:06
Who knew?
44:07
Unchained, baby, yeah.