Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #25: Interview with Angela Bonfanti, President and CEO, CNIB

Transcript

Remarkable World Commentary Episode #25: Interview with Angela Bonfanti, President and CEO, CNIB · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

• 0:12
  Unknown: Greetings. Donna J jardhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA
• 0:19
  invites you to listen to her bi weekly podcast. Remarkable world
• 0:23
  commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
• 0:27
  insights, perspectives and more with her listeners. Donna
• 0:31
  focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
• 0:35
  especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind
• 0:39
  advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer,
• 0:44
  writer, entrepreneur, law graduate and podcast
• 0:48
  commentator.
• 0:49
  She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge skills
• 0:53
  and expertise in access technology and information
• 0:58
  as someone who has been internationally recognized for
• 1:01
  her work and roles. She just wants to make things better than
• 1:04
  possible.
• 1:10
  How are you doing? I am well, how are you doing? Oh, we are
• 1:15
  doing just fine, yeah, yeah. But thank you for this opportunity.
• 1:20
  I really appreciate it. Well, it's a pleasure and a privilege
• 1:23
  to have you here. You know the pleasures online. Are you
• 1:26
  kidding? Well, you know, you're such a busy lady. You have so
• 1:31
  much on your plate.
• 1:34
  Part of the job, getting the message out, answering
• 1:36
  questions. It could not have come at a very opportune time.
• 1:42
  It's a very crucial time for all of us. Yep, and you know, like
• 1:48
  we are in rough seas right now, right? And we want to know when
• 1:55
  we don't need to be. This is all very unnecessary. Well, I call
• 1:58
  it self inflicted, an interview question, you know, self
• 2:03
  inflicted wounds on the part of external powers, and now we have
• 2:07
  to deal with it. But I know, I've known you for a long time,
• 2:11
  and I know that you will overcome. He will do everything
• 2:16
  in our power. Yeah, overcome. So let's get started with the very
• 2:22
  first question. Okay,
• 2:26
  what does it mean to you that you are the first lady, I don't
• 2:30
  like the word woman, the First Lady
• 2:33
  in over a century to be leading the CNIB. What does this mean to
• 2:38
  you personally? And
• 2:41
  you know, like, Tell Tell me what your feelings are. You have
• 2:45
  to deal with so many issues like di accessibility,
• 2:51
  keeping the profile of the CNI be, you know, at its level, what
• 2:56
  does all this mean to you?
• 2:59
  Well, I mean, I can tell you for certain that, you know, when I
• 3:03
  first walked into the C and I'd be building the baker wood
• 3:07
  building down here, decades ago, I won't say how many exactly,
• 3:13
  that I never had any clue that I would be the CEO and president
• 3:19
  one day. I mean, that's just wild. Even when I started with
• 3:22
  CNIB
• 3:25
  13 and a half years ago, you know, I was coming in to help
• 3:28
  with fundraising and messaging, and yes, it never crossed my
• 3:32
  mind. It wasn't until later, later on, that I thought, oh my
• 3:35
  goodness, I think I want to do this. So it's been a wild ride
• 3:39
  of the 108 year old organization of the eighth CEO. Yes, you're
• 3:44
  right, the First Lady woman. What have you
• 3:48
  also that I carry with me, along with a ton of gratitude. It's a
• 3:52
  deep sense of responsibility as well, and personally, it's
• 3:55
  incred it's incredibly meaningful to be in this role,
• 3:59
  especially knowing the impact CNIB had on my own family, with
• 4:02
  my dad losing his sight, and it's so it's not just about
• 4:05
  being the first female CEO to lead CNIB. It's about what this
• 4:09
  moment says more broadly about leadership in our sector. So you
• 4:13
  know, John, I think now more than ever, to your point,
• 4:15
  leadership, it just it has to reflect the diversity of the
• 4:18
  communities that we serve, not just in terms of gender, but
• 4:21
  across race, disability, language, identity, lived
• 4:24
  experience. You and I both know intersectionality matters, so
• 4:28
  when we bring different perspectives to the table, we
• 4:30
  make better decisions, we build stronger teams, and essentially,
• 4:34
  we deliver more inclusive outcomes, which is what I'm all
• 4:36
  about. So yes, I'm proud of what the milestone represents, but I
• 4:40
  also see it as just one step. So I think the real goal is to keep
• 4:43
  the doors open and to create a space for the next generation of
• 4:47
  leaders who will be even more depth, have more of a depth and
• 4:50
  have more, you know, insight and innovation to this really
• 4:54
  important work. And I think that's that's really, really
• 4:57
  important today, maybe more than.
• 5:00
  More than than ever before.
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  Now, do you think that you know being a woman slash lady is it?
• 5:06
  Does this signify anything to the community or to Canadians
• 5:10
  with disabilities, or anyone listening in Down Arrow flag?
• 5:15
  You know, I think we're obviously, there was an
• 5:17
  international search, extensive international search on behalf
• 5:21
  of the board.
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  All it's saying is, is that we're, you know, we're we are
• 5:28
  progressing, and we understand that women play a role in
• 5:31
  leadership. And there's a there's a there's a
• 5:33
  disproportionate amount of women that represent are represented
• 5:36
  in the, not for profit sector, but not at the same leadership
• 5:39
  level. And I read somewhere Donna that there are more CEOs
• 5:43
  in the world named John than there are female CEOs in the
• 5:48
  world period. And so I find that kind of interesting, because it
• 5:53
  is, you know, and the notion was that
• 5:56
  named John needs to make room for women like me and others in
• 6:01
  this and that's what's happened here. So I think, you know,
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  really progressive leadership that I'm part of, joining nib,
• 6:07
  this board is very progressive. They understand the diversity
• 6:10
  matters. Diversity of thought is important. And I think that they
• 6:15
  that this is just indicative of the fact that that people are
• 6:17
  recognizing that the world is changing. And women have. Women
• 6:20
  have a role. They have a very significant role. We belong at
• 6:23
  all levels in a company, not just in the front lines.
• 6:27
  It's a very heavy responsibility, isn't it? Diary,
• 6:30
  zoom, meeting items you know, like at this particular point in
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  time, like, you know, we're facing so many external
• 6:38
  difficulties, right? And now, you know, probably a challenge
• 6:45
  within our own country. I mean, I don't know if you want to
• 6:48
  touch on that, yeah, no, I'm happy to, I'm not happy to, I'm
• 6:53
  unhappy to that. I have to, but I'm happy to share with you we
• 6:56
  had a cabinet, you know,
• 7:01
  Tuesday that that no longer had a had a disability as part of
• 7:06
  it, as part of its composition. And I think you had, you had an
• 7:10
  excellent op ed in the paper. And there have been plenty of
• 7:14
  people, you know, rising up this, and it's not accessible.
• 7:17
  Why do we not administer this? Government has in their platform
• 7:20
  had a very, I thought, very good Disability Action Plan. Thought
• 7:25
  of being called out into somebody's title. How do we know
• 7:27
  who to go to now we I am fresh off a call with the Prime
• 7:30
  Minister's Office. Today, we have been affirmed that Minister
• 7:33
  Patty, had you, is the Minister of persons with disability. I
• 7:35
  don't know why they wouldn't just put that in a title. So
• 7:38
  we're working on that, and we need to have a conversation with
• 7:41
  the Prime Minister and the Minister who's whose ministers
• 7:44
  title is families and jobs, which, obviously we understand
• 7:47
  there's disability in families and jobs. But that's not the
• 7:49
  extent of all of it, to just understand who's going to
• 7:53
  navigate our roadmap. So I didn't, I think, yes, there are
• 8:01
  massive issues dealing very clear that he's he's focusing on
• 8:07
  US, Canada relations, and as he should,
• 8:11
  abilities, losing their losing their voice in cabinet, or being
• 8:15
  done off the side of somebody's desk. So it's early days. I We
• 8:19
  will be meeting with Minister. How do you to hear from her?
• 8:23
  What what priorities she sees, she expects, putting on the
• 8:27
  disability file. So more to come. I think the one you know
• 8:31
  silver lining is that we had a quick response the prime
• 8:34
  minister's office. They are reaching out to other disability
• 8:37
  organizations and trying to provide assurance. I hope we see
• 8:41
  that title, and then from
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  there, hopefully we
• 8:45
  can establish a partnership with the federal government to do
• 8:49
  what's best in a Disability Action Plan, which, which
• 8:53
  includes an employment profile, which includes a youth profile,
• 8:57
  you know, which, which includes a number of things that that
• 8:59
  we've been advocating for for too many years. Do you think
• 9:03
  this was an inadvertent error, or was were we? I don't think we
• 9:07
  were deliberately left out. But what do you think led to this?
• 9:13
  It's a good question. I don't know. Donna, I know I went in
• 9:16
  the room.
• 9:17
  I have to have I mean, I spent a number of years in the House of
• 9:21
  Commons. I understand that when you're in election mode, you're
• 9:25
  not really thinking about who your cabinet ministers are.
• 9:27
  You're knocking on doors. That is your number one priority.
• 9:30
  Let's win, and then we'll figure out who makes government. And
• 9:33
  then you have a very short window to make those decisions.
• 9:35
  And I know that this sounds it might sound ludicrous, but I you
• 9:38
  know things do get missed. Now to be completely clear, the
• 9:43
  government hasn't told us which one it is, and we've asked,
• 9:45
  we've not received an answer. They won't tell you, yeah, if we
• 9:49
  were missed, then that, to me, is actually, you know, and I
• 9:53
  this is very similar to what you wrote, if we were forgotten,
• 9:57
  well, why are we not have we not been lied?
• 10:00
  Enough? Have we not been prioritized enough? Why were we
• 10:02
  forgotten in someone's title? Now I haven't seen mandate
• 10:04
  letters, and I would have, I would one of the asks our
• 10:07
  teammate today to the Prime Minister's Office is that every
• 10:10
  mandate letter should include a disability lens, because we are
• 10:14
  across the board, you name the DI ministry, we are impacted. So
• 10:18
  you know, if there is some notion that if we can embed more
• 10:21
  more disability issues within each of the mandate letters of
• 10:24
  all the ministries, then you know, one would argue you may
• 10:27
  not need a minister one day. Okay, fine, but we do need one
• 10:31
  today. So we start with that Minister actually having
• 10:34
  disability persons with disabilities out called in her
• 10:37
  title so that every everyday Canadians know where to go.
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  That's the issue. So the absence, I think, I think you're
• 10:43
  what you've described in some of the things that you've written.
• 10:47
  The absence here is is palpable. It's sending it's sending
• 10:52
  messages. I don't know that the government is intending to send
• 10:54
  the messages that that we've received, but having that empty
• 10:58
  seat at the table speaks volumes. And so I'm concerned we
• 11:02
  are having conversations. I don't know where they'll land,
• 11:04
  Donna, but I can assure you in the audience that we will do
• 11:07
  everything we can to make this right, along with dozens of
• 11:11
  other disability organizations that are doing the same thing
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  that we are, because we're not alone. No, I think you know, it
• 11:17
  caught a lot of us off guard, and now we got to speak up and
• 11:20
  speak out. And we want to make sure that the Prime Minister
• 11:23
  hears us, that he understands, you know, we are here, you know,
• 11:30
  yeah,
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  right here. And we have work to do. We have started on a path,
• 11:35
  and I, and I've been, I've been critical of previous of the
• 11:38
  previous government, in particular about the, you know,
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  how slow we are in making societal change under the
• 11:45
  Accessibility Act, the accessible, accessible Canada
• 11:48
  Act, yeah, and that we need to sort of come together, in my
• 11:53
  mind, kind of reset and create solution based strategies so
• 11:58
  that We can start to feel and to understand the difference that
• 12:03
  this act is actually going to make in our country as I don't
• 12:07
  feel it now. I don't see it now, Donna, I don't know how you
• 12:10
  feel, but I I know that there are a lot of people working
• 12:14
  really hard on various committees, and under the
• 12:16
  previous ministerial ministers that we've had the last 10
• 12:19
  years,
• 12:21
  results are not optimal. So, you know, can we as a disability
• 12:26
  sector get together and agree that, you know, it's time to do
• 12:31
  things a little bit differently, and what does that actually
• 12:34
  mean? So my hope is that this kind of a moment that's woken us
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  up by not having a cabinet minister named after, after, you
• 12:41
  know, our responsible for our sector. Maybe it'll challenge us
• 12:44
  to do things a little bit differently and to make sure
• 12:47
  that our messaging is cohesive. It's direct and it's unified at
• 12:50
  every possible step. Maybe it's inadvertently going to unite
• 12:57
  the, you know, Canadians with disabilities. It's, it's, it's
• 13:02
  sort of a wake up call. Wake up, wake up. You know, it's time,
• 13:07
  folks. I mean, I agree with you. Things are not moving fast
• 13:11
  enough. And if we want to help the kids of the future, man, we
• 13:15
  got to get going about the future. Yeah. And I think, you
• 13:19
  know, look what happened with with the president south the
• 13:22
  border, and what is, what he did, inadvertently, you know,
• 13:26
  brought together premieres and provinces like never before, and
• 13:30
  we're still talking about very real barriers to provincial
• 13:34
  trade that are that are soon to be coming down, right? This is
• 13:37
  the maybe this, maybe it was a mess. Maybe it was a miss,
• 13:39
  because it's included in somebody's mandate. But I really
• 13:42
  hope, and I have already seen in the last little while how
• 13:45
  quickly the disability groups look we don't always get along.
• 13:49
  We have fights over wordsmithing. It happens. I
• 13:52
  understand words are important, but you know, at the end of the
• 13:56
  day, if we now know that there's a government that's giving us a
• 13:59
  window, not a door, then we have to be more succinct, we have to
• 14:03
  be more united, and we have to be as strong as possible to
• 14:05
  agree on what it is we're looking for. And if we can get
• 14:09
  agreed and make it easier for the Minister to make a decision,
• 14:13
  then we will become a top priority in that portfolio, not
• 14:15
  the one that gets left off the title. So what's the next step
• 14:19
  for you? Of Europe? What does that look we with respect to the
• 14:23
  government and the prime minister? Yes, yeah. So we've,
• 14:26
  we've requested a minutes, a meeting with the Prime Minister
• 14:28
  and the Minister, Minister Patty hydro, with all the disability
• 14:31
  groups. That was just done today. I will be following up in
• 14:34
  a letter shortly. We just let the disability organizations
• 14:36
  know that we've been working with that. We've made that
• 14:39
  request, and I think that's that happened, the next step of
• 14:42
  leadership, with the minister and the Prime Minister, you
• 14:46
  know, really receiving every assurance that this this file is
• 14:50
  going to be actioned, that the Disability Action Plan was not
• 14:53
  just, you know, writing on a piece of paper in in a platform.
• 14:56
  And we'd like to hear from them how they plan on actioning
• 14:59
  their.
• 15:00
  Their plan, which, as I said earlier, I think is a good plan,
• 15:03
  and if implemented properly,
• 15:08
  sounds good to me. We'll see. So I apologize if you can hear me
• 15:15
  reading off my questions to you.
• 15:18
  So do with over a decade vision for the organization
• 15:21
  development. Involved them? Dash, so that's the second
• 15:25
  question.
• 15:28
  Let me This is about the vision for the organizations,
• 15:36
  about the down arrow. Do With over a decade and see NIV
• 15:41
  organization, about them. Dash, did you get it? What are your
• 15:44
  top priorities now as CEO in this critical moment for
• 15:47
  disability, yes. So what are your priorities? Angela, I have
• 15:53
  so many. Yeah, a lot. I know I do, but that's it. As I should
• 15:58
  it's a big organization. It's a huge community, the priorities
• 16:01
  have to be big. So when I first joined cniv, my focus was on
• 16:04
  helping to build impactful programs for people within our
• 16:08
  community. And so over time, that vision has, of course,
• 16:11
  evolved. We've learned a lot, and we've improved what already
• 16:16
  existed. We've reimagined what's actually possible today. So at
• 16:19
  CEO today I see CNN user role not just as a service provider,
• 16:24
  but also as a driver of systemic change. So you know, we're not
• 16:27
  here to patch holes in an inaccessible system anymore.
• 16:30
  Those days are over. You're here to reshape them all together. So
• 16:34
  I think that starts with our strategic commitments. We're
• 16:36
  focused on ensuring that children with sight loss don't
• 16:38
  just, you know, get by, that they actually thrive. You know,
• 16:43
  we're challenging outdated attitudes and expectations about
• 16:46
  blindness. I don't have to tell you people don't understand the
• 16:49
  capabilities of somebody who is blind. We have work to do there,
• 16:53
  and we're working to ensure that every journey, whether it's
• 16:55
  physical, digital societal, is safe, accessible and seamless.
• 17:00
  But we can't do that alone. We need our allies. You know, big
• 17:03
  part of my leadership today is about blending lending CNN
• 17:06
  expertise to empower organizations to include
• 17:09
  accessibility and inclusion design from the start, like you
• 17:13
  and I, you and I both know how important that is, and that it
• 17:16
  includes absolutely everybody, from startups to policy makers
• 17:20
  to corporate partners, to, you know, other public influencers.
• 17:24
  We've got to tell more stories, and we've got to grow the allies
• 17:29
  that are currently in our pool. So I'll give you a great
• 17:32
  example. So my dad, I don't know if you might, if you haven't, my
• 17:34
  dad got the meadow, the meadow smart glasses recently. Oh,
• 17:38
  great. Truly game changing technology, of course, right?
• 17:42
  Have anybody who was blind in mind at the time, but they're
• 17:44
  they're making up for it. We're having conversations with with
• 17:47
  meta and be my eyes about about what's next, but, but so my
• 17:51
  father had had it for about six, six or seven weeks. Worked
• 17:55
  perfectly fine. Thought, You know what? This is great. This
• 17:57
  eliminates so many other gadgets that I have. They look good.
• 18:01
  They're light. You know, he's gonna get, he's gonna get the
• 18:03
  transition so they can be a bit darker in the sun because he has
• 18:06
  a bit of light, he can block out that sun. But then out of
• 18:10
  nowhere, the glasses stopped working. What? Yeah, oh yeah.
• 18:16
  This truly
• 18:18
  so. And what I found frustrating, so for whatever
• 18:23
  reason, his AI enabled, his AI function was disabled on his
• 18:28
  device. We could not get it to turn back on. It was gone. It
• 18:32
  just poof disappeared from the menu, the device menu. And what
• 18:36
  I found incredibly frustrating was that as soon as he ran into
• 18:40
  an issue, there was absolutely nowhere to turn. Oh, yes, I hear
• 18:44
  you. No interface design with blindness in mind. They had it.
• 18:47
  They had bots that you had to speak to a certain number of
• 18:49
  times before you could actually request to speak to somebody
• 18:52
  live, somebody who's blind cannot navigate turn by turn
• 18:55
  instructions. If you're using VoiceOver anyway, you just can't
• 18:59
  navigate all the screens at the same time, because it'll show
• 19:01
  not the bot before it opens up the screen, right? And so, you
• 19:06
  know, I was like, I just need to talk to someone. Then you'd get
• 19:08
  someone that would send you an email that was a live person
• 19:11
  already,
• 19:13
  as much as I could see, and they would just, they would give you
• 19:17
  advice, then you'd respond to it, and the next day, they'd
• 19:19
  have somebody else picking up the conversation and giving you
• 19:22
  the same advice you're seeing. It was madness. It was
• 19:24
  absolutely madness. And I thought, okay, you know, great
• 19:28
  that we have this technology. But accessibility cannot be an
• 19:31
  afterthought. It needs to be embedded from the beginning. If
• 19:34
  they, if these developers have sat around a table one day and
• 19:37
  said, you know, this is going to help. You know, 2 million people
• 19:40
  in Canada alone with blindness, I think they would have thought
• 19:43
  about, well, what happens when something goes wrong? And so I
• 19:48
  are so then, in my view, that's a great opportunity for CNIB to
• 19:51
  be in the to help with the training and the troubleshooting
• 19:56
  and the report back to the developers, you know, to have to
• 19:58
  have that.
• 20:00
  That's that line into into meta and so so I you know that it
• 20:04
  was, it was an opportunity, but it was after a very two weeks of
• 20:07
  a very frustrating experience. So what ended up happening? We
• 20:10
  still don't know what happened. Oh, no, anyone's listening that
• 20:12
  has this issue? If your AI function disappears on your meta
• 20:15
  smart glasses, it it's likely connected to your Facebook
• 20:20
  profile, even though you have everything turned on and
• 20:23
  enabled. From an AI standpoint, for whatever reason, my father
• 20:26
  was shut out, so we had to upload my mother's Facebook's
• 20:29
  account,
• 20:31
  and now they work fine. So, you know, it's these mysteries. So
• 20:34
  our priorities are about, you know, equality and innovation,
• 20:36
  but they're also about collaboration. So about it's
• 20:38
  about stepping into leadership, and not just for our own
• 20:41
  programs, but to help to raise the bar across the board, even
• 20:44
  with these big, you know, mega, mega tech companies. Because
• 20:47
  when accessibility, you know, if it's built from the start,
• 20:50
  absolutely everyone benefits. So we're trying to take lemons and
• 20:54
  turning them into lemonade any and every, every way, every step
• 20:58
  forward. Can't have these great things being created that could
• 21:02
  be changed, Game Changer members of our community, and then have
• 21:05
  them ripped away from us, right? With no reason. It just says,
• 21:09
  It's maddening. It doesn't make any sense. What part do you
• 21:14
  think the medical community could help? You know, I find
• 21:19
  that so many,
• 21:22
  you know, like ophthalmologists or optometrists or even medical
• 21:25
  folks. Doctors, especially like, they seem so unaware of the
• 21:31
  capability and ability of of blind and vision impaired folks.
• 21:37
  And I find like, you know, like they just don't give us enough
• 21:41
  importance. They don't believe that we can do anything. I mean,
• 21:46
  I remember once going to an
• 21:50
  ophthalmologist, and he said to me, in my lifetime, I will never
• 21:56
  have a medical solution. And I said to him, Doctor, is this
• 21:59
  what you would tell your daughter?
• 22:02
  No answer. And I said, Please, would you tell your daughter
• 22:05
  this? And he couldn't answer. So what do you think, or how do you
• 22:10
  think the medical community can help us out here?
• 22:14
  Well, you know, there's so many ways the medical community can
• 22:19
  help us out here. We hear from far too many parents in
• 22:22
  particular, that when their child is diagnosed with
• 22:25
  significant vision loss, it is often delivered as a death
• 22:28
  sentence, and their child's life is going to be limited. It's
• 22:32
  going to be minimal. They are not going to have friends. They
• 22:36
  are never going to go to school. You know this we can help. I
• 22:40
  don't think medical experts are doing this on purpose to make
• 22:44
  sure that somebody lives in isolation their whole life. It's
• 22:47
  just that they we have a very busy system. They're pumping
• 22:50
  patients out quickly. They're giving you the information
• 22:52
  you're moving on, giving you the information they're moving on.
• 22:55
  So we, we are working closely with the medical community and
• 22:58
  our partners, for example, at Vision Loss rehabilitation
• 23:01
  Canada, who have that direct relationship with the
• 23:03
  ophthalmologists and the and the and the family physicians in
• 23:07
  particular, to say, you know, there, if there is significant,
• 23:11
  significant vision loss diagnosis, you have a
• 23:13
  responsibility to refer to those who are in the vision loss
• 23:17
  adjustment space. You have a responsibility to not make any
• 23:21
  conclusive comments about the person, the child's future, and
• 23:26
  you have a responsibility to know what's out there for these
• 23:30
  individuals. So, you know, I start, starts with the doctors.
• 23:33
  We're working really hard to see if we can get into things like
• 23:36
  Grand Rounds for our ophthalmologists, and in front
• 23:39
  of the College of Physicians and Surgeons in the College of
• 23:43
  family doctors. Sorry, no, I messed that up. I forget the
• 23:47
  college name. I apologize, but we're getting in front so we can
• 23:50
  get to medical students early on. So it's a no brainer, and
• 23:53
  just all you need to know is that there are resources out
• 23:56
  there for somebody who's who has lost a significant amount of
• 23:59
  vision, whether eye condition or accident, and there are, there's
• 24:03
  help out there, and that's all people need to know. And then,
• 24:06
  and I think if we can do a better job working with our
• 24:09
  allied organizations to help people navigate this space once,
• 24:13
  once and once the diagnosis has has been delivered, you know,
• 24:17
  because it's hard as as somebody who's, you know, there are
• 24:20
  programs in place provincially, federally, for children, for
• 24:23
  youth, for adults. You know, living with disabilities, they
• 24:26
  are almost impossible to navigate on your own,
• 24:31
  especially if you have vision loss. So I think, I think
• 24:35
  there's a lot of awareness. I'd also love to see you know our
• 24:39
  medical space is more navigable. You know why it would be great
• 24:42
  to have technology that internal navigation and way finding,
• 24:46
  technology that will help you get to whatever room you need to
• 24:49
  get to at a hospital in particular or a medical
• 24:53
  building, you know, excited people walk around, lost all the
• 24:55
  time. I can't even imagine what it's like for someone trying to
• 24:58
  navigate the space with a cane or a.
• 25:00
  My dog. So the medical community has got a big there's a big
• 25:03
  opportunity there, I think, for us to do more meaningful work
• 25:06
  and to educate more frequently, so that where they understand
• 25:09
  that they have a part in the journey. And it doesn't end with
• 25:12
  diagnosis. It actually starts with diagnosis. I agree.
• 25:17
  Okay, let's go to the next question. Can you hear this
• 25:20
  against global backlash and Canadian leadership?
• 25:23
  All right? Three, as we've seen a troubling rollback of di
• 25:26
  policies in parts of the world, Down Arrow, especially the u
• 25:30
  dot, s dot. What role do you see Canada M dash and cniv m dash
• 25:34
  playing in Down Arrow, resisting that trend and building
• 25:37
  something better. New Notification. So did you get
• 25:40
  that? I got it. Your co host is awesome, Donna.
• 25:44
  You should give up a name. It should be, it should be your co
• 25:46
  host. Well, you know, I don't like this because, you see, you
• 25:50
  can hear me as I arrow down and I have, okay,
• 25:54
  it's not, it's not, it's not bothersome to me at all. Thank
• 25:57
  you very much. Well, I think Canada has a real unique
• 26:00
  opportunity, and I believe a responsibility, quite frankly,
• 26:03
  to lead by example. It can't just be symbolic. It has to be
• 26:07
  backed up by action, by policy and by willingness to change the
• 26:11
  status quo. So at the Unity we're focused on making, on
• 26:14
  building, sort of made in Canada, solutions like the
• 26:18
  unique realities you know, that our community faces. So one of
• 26:22
  the clearest examples is our come to work program, our
• 26:25
  national flagship employment program. It has helped you know,
• 26:29
  you know, almost 2000 job seekers who are blind to date in
• 26:32
  the last few years, blind, deaf, blind, low vision with Inclusive
• 26:36
  employers, and the unemployment and underemployment rate for the
• 26:39
  population is still hovers above 50% so pushing for, you know,
• 26:45
  there was the resistance in the global di backlash means that
• 26:49
  going it's going beyond employment. So it means making
• 26:53
  sure accessibility is treated as a baseline expectation and not
• 26:57
  an afterthought. Here's the DI, and here's yet again, if it
• 27:00
  comes in after, it's not going to be very helpful. So, you
• 27:02
  know, not. CNB, I'm proud that we're dedicated to advocating
• 27:05
  for Inclusive Infrastructure, for equitable access to things
• 27:08
  like deaf, blind services and transit and greater
• 27:11
  representation of people with disabilities at decision making
• 27:14
  tables. So it's a long journey though. Donna, you know it
• 27:17
  doesn't happen overnight. So we're pushing for accessibility
• 27:20
  standards to be embedded across all levels of government policy,
• 27:23
  not just through legislation, but through everyday practice.
• 27:27
  Because when inclusion is seen as optional, it becomes the
• 27:30
  first thing to go when the road gets bumpy and look at where we
• 27:33
  are today.
• 27:35
  EDI accessibility has been seen as a nice to have, in my view,
• 27:39
  across the board, and now I'm not saying there aren't
• 27:42
  companies and government representatives that believe in
• 27:44
  it strongly, but as a society, it's not embedded in our DNA the
• 27:49
  way that it should be. That is why we are where we are today,
• 27:53
  and that is why we get missed in things like Cabinet
• 27:57
  appointments. It's just not ingrained. So we have to work
• 28:00
  harder to make sure that we claim our stake and that we let
• 28:04
  people know that we're here to stay and that we are not to be
• 28:06
  missed, because we when things are made accessible, so much
• 28:10
  good happens everywhere else. So I think it's a critical moment.
• 28:14
  I think the world is shifting, and we have to double down and
• 28:18
  not scale back our commitments to equity, accessibility and
• 28:22
  human rights Canada, I think Canada can be a global leader
• 28:25
  here, but only if we're bold enough to act like one. And
• 28:28
  that's my message to the Prime Minister. Now here's my
• 28:32
  question, okay, I wonder, because the Prime Minister
• 28:37
  inadvertently signaled that, you know, we may not be important,
• 28:40
  whatever it is. Do you think that government departments and
• 28:46
  federally governed entities will take this to mean that, well,
• 28:50
  you know, we should be slacking off and we don't have to adhere
• 28:54
  to the accessible Canada Act. Do you think that they will take
• 28:58
  this as an indicator that this is not important. Yes, the Prime
• 29:02
  Minister has to fight many more priorities, you know. But what
• 29:07
  do you think companies and government departments are
• 29:11
  thinking now?
• 29:14
  Well, I think it's a bit of a
• 29:20
  lot happening right now. I think being on the Hill is a very,
• 29:23
  very busy thing. I think that there are a lot of priorities
• 29:26
  coming at government officials, left, right and center. I think
• 29:29
  that if we do our job as a community and call to the public
• 29:34
  light as much as possible, that we are here to stay. We are need
• 29:38
  to be prioritized, and we hold the government accountable. I
• 29:41
  don't think we're in this space where irreparable damage has
• 29:45
  occurred. I don't think we're there yet. I think if we were
• 29:48
  being ignored, I think if we weren't having phone calls, I
• 29:51
  think, you know, I'm like I said, we're seeing an effort to
• 29:54
  say no, no. You know, I'm sorry that it's on the title, but I
• 29:58
  should we, assure you it's going to be mandate letters.
• 30:00
  That this is a top this is a priority for the government, so
• 30:03
  I think there's time to bounce back. I'm hoping it's a very,
• 30:06
  you know, quick, Whoopsie, and I don't know what that's technical
• 30:10
  term, and then they turn around and they do what's right,
• 30:14
  because we, you know, we can't go back 10 years now and start
• 30:17
  with nothing. I'm sorry. I just, I just don't think that's
• 30:20
  possible. So I'm hoping the government's willing to move and
• 30:23
  to make a statement. And I think that's the right statement is,
• 30:26
  here is the Minister responsible for persons with disability.
• 30:29
  It's in her title. Here is her mandate letter, disability
• 30:32
  community. That is your champion next to the prime minister. And
• 30:36
  as soon as we have that messaging, I think we can, we
• 30:39
  can kind of reverse any messaging or any innuendos that
• 30:43
  people can draw from last week's cabinet appointment announcement
• 30:47
  now the throne speech is coming up on May 27 Yes. Do you think
• 30:52
  there's an opportunity for Prime Minister Carney to put any or
• 30:57
  slip anything in there that would reassure Canadians with
• 31:02
  Disabilities. Like, is that possible? You think?
• 31:06
  I mean, it's possible. I just wonder, when you you know I'm
• 31:09
  not part of the team there. I don't I know the king will be
• 31:13
  there. I expect these, these speeches are political,
• 31:19
  and really send a message to other countries and send a
• 31:23
  message to Canadians. So is there an opportunity? Yes, we
• 31:27
  are pushing really hard for that to for the Prime Minister to
• 31:30
  find his voice when it comes to people with disabilities. And
• 31:34
  that would be it. That would be great. But even if it does make
• 31:37
  its way in the Speech from the Throne, and then we still don't
• 31:39
  have, you know, a minister that's that's called out
• 31:42
  rightfully so, and it's off the side of someone's desk, I would
• 31:45
  argue, didn't do anything. So it'll be interesting to see what
• 31:48
  happens. What happens next week, I will be in Ottawa, and, you
• 31:52
  know, knocking on as many doors on the hill as possible to
• 31:57
  Yeah, but make, make as much noise as we can that we cannot
• 32:00
  be ignored. We need to be addressed. And if we are
• 32:03
  ignored, that's probably the worst thing that you can do to
• 32:05
  this community right now. So find your voice and start
• 32:07
  talking about us here, here, and if I can do anything to help
• 32:11
  you, I'm here. Get that. Donna. You. You are. You are in our in
• 32:15
  our tool of weapons. Oh, good lord. Oh no, no, no. All right,
• 32:22
  let's see what our next question is. Human Right. All right, Down
• 32:26
  Arrow justice of accessibility. Or many worry that accessibility
• 32:30
  is still seen as a left tick, nice, dash to dash had rather
• 32:32
  than a down arrow. Human Right. How do we shift the public
• 32:36
  conversation to reflect the urgency and Down arrow justice
• 32:40
  of accessibility work, I think you answered a lot of this. But
• 32:43
  do you have any final thoughts on this? Do I think we shift the
• 32:47
  questions around? How we shift public conversation to reflect
• 32:50
  urgency we shifted by telling the truth painfully, painfully
• 32:56
  and powerfully. Telling the truth is not always easy. No, I
• 33:00
  know that isn't a favor or a feature, it's a fundamental
• 33:05
  right about it. People are excluded from their workforce,
• 33:09
  from their education, from their healthcare, and from everyday
• 33:12
  life in their community. So that is the reality. Exclusion is
• 33:16
  still happening every day. I'm sorry Canada. I'm sorry
• 33:19
  Canadians, but we have a problem, and we need to fix this
• 33:23
  by changing the attitudes of those who are in policy
• 33:26
  decisions that do not have a clue about the disability
• 33:29
  community. 2023 analysis of Fortune Global 500 companies
• 33:33
  revealed that while over 92% had diversity and inclusion policies
• 33:37
  and 66.1%
• 33:39
  referenced equity, only 16% even mentioned accessibility.
• 33:45
  So 92% had diverse, diversity, inclusion policies. 66% of those
• 33:51
  referenced equity, and 16 one 6% mentioned accessibility. That
• 33:56
  means 84% of major organizations are still overlooking
• 33:59
  accessibility and their policies altogether. And so I think
• 34:02
  what's happened here is, you know, with what's happened in
• 34:06
  the States, with, you know, Edi and quote over wokeness and all
• 34:11
  this stuff coming from their president
• 34:15
  is dangerous to us, right? Because we get brushed in the
• 34:19
  EDI stroke and some of the political motivations to move
• 34:24
  away from EDI
• 34:25
  that makes sense for the President in his own world, in
• 34:29
  the US have nothing to do with accessibility for people with
• 34:33
  persons with disability. So, so I think that what is a political
• 34:38
  an overly political issue that is driving a certain sentiment
• 34:42
  in the US around diversity, in particular gender, all of that
• 34:50
  rhetoric that is just noise, quite frankly, that does
• 34:53
  absolutely nothing but hurt us as a society. It has captured
• 34:58
  accessibility and.
• 35:00
  And has been thrown out the window in many cases in the
• 35:02
  States. So we have to focus on bringing it back. EDI is
• 35:08
  important diverse. We're Canada, for the love of whoever you
• 35:11
  believe in. You know this is, this is a this doesn't get any
• 35:14
  more diverse in this country. But I think that we have to call
• 35:19
  it back, and we have to not separate ourselves from EDI, but
• 35:22
  we have to make it abundantly clear that accessibility affects
• 35:25
  everyone. Doesn't matter your race, your gender, your sexual
• 35:29
  orientation, your any other parts of your intersectional
• 35:34
  identity, you can become a member of the disability
• 35:37
  community tomorrow, regardless of who you are, where you've
• 35:42
  come from, and who you identify as, and so that has yet to
• 35:46
  really make a statement. I haven't heard that statement
• 35:51
  yet. So that's our job. Our job is to say, you know, we cannot
• 35:55
  afford to go backwards, but we especially cannot afford to lose
• 35:58
  on the accessibility side, because it affects absolutely
• 36:01
  everybody in this country. This is not a niche issue. So I
• 36:04
  think, you know, we're focused on reframing the narrative.
• 36:07
  We're showing that accessibility is about freedom. It's freedom
• 36:10
  to move around the world, freedom to make choices, freedom
• 36:12
  to belong. So the more we ground work this work in real stories
• 36:17
  it gets, the more impact we're going to have. And the harder I
• 36:21
  hope, I hope, the harder it will become for people to ignore
• 36:24
  what's at stake in the way that they're ignoring us today.
• 36:28
  I often wonder if I have two thoughts here, and I want, I
• 36:33
  wanted, to get your opinion on this. One is that people are
• 36:37
  afraid to think of disability because they are afraid that if
• 36:40
  they became a person with a disability, it would be
• 36:43
  traumatic, or they only think of disability when they are either
• 36:50
  directly affected or one of their family members. Is, I
• 36:54
  mean, my mom and I often have this conversation, and you know,
• 36:58
  what are your thoughts on this?
• 37:02
  No,
• 37:04
  it's so such a personalized journey. It's different for
• 37:08
  everyone. You know, I think I can talk about the blindness
• 37:12
  space in particular, I you know, was with a family last week in
• 37:16
  Nova Scotia in Halifax, with an eight year old boy named cam who
• 37:21
  is blind. He's got a buddy dog from our guide dog program. He
• 37:24
  uses his cane. He's, he's our, he's our campaign director for
• 37:27
  seeing I beast pub crawl. Right now, it's our annual fundraiser
• 37:31
  to raise more money for our guide dog program. And you know,
• 37:36
  it's, it's
• 37:39
  the father and the mother there.
• 37:43
  Rick was the father's name is the father's name. He's like,
• 37:46
  you know,
• 37:48
  people just assume that disability has to look like
• 37:52
  something, and Cam just looks like cam. Eight year old boy.
• 37:57
  It's like, it's, it's, you're only disabled what? Until you're
• 38:01
  not disabled, until, until somebody tells you you are, is
• 38:04
  what he said, if not sticks. And I think that's the opportunity
• 38:07
  is, why do we Why do we have to focus on what doesn't get done?
• 38:12
  We have to focus on the fact that we are people that happen
• 38:15
  to be living with diverse lived experiences, some physical, some
• 38:19
  cognitive, some sensory related. But all we're all still the
• 38:25
  same, people trying to navigate this really complicated world
• 38:27
  during a really terrible time. And so I can speak from the
• 38:31
  blindness perspective, I think that we, I'm so proud of, there
• 38:35
  are a number of young blind advocates that will use blind as
• 38:39
  as part of their identifier language. I haven't seen that
• 38:43
  before. I think when I, you know, when I first started at
• 38:47
  CNIB, we avoided the B word at all. Yeah, yes. It was about,
• 38:52
  you know, legally blind, partially sighted, vision loss.
• 38:55
  You know, we get you, can you name it. You've been, you've
• 38:58
  been part of all the cycles here. So we can't get away from
• 39:02
  the word. If someone chooses that they don't identify as
• 39:05
  blind because of the stigma that comes to it, then that's their
• 39:07
  choice. But I'm seeing, on my end, more and more people,
• 39:11
  especially in our young adults, saying, No, I'm blind. Here's I
• 39:16
  put on makeup. I'm blind. Guess what? I have a regular job. I'm
• 39:20
  blind. Guess what? My boyfriend broke up with me like anybody
• 39:23
  else does. I'm like so I think, you know, the more stories we
• 39:27
  have that are basically, you know, so what? I'm blind, and I
• 39:30
  have this, and I don't as I think what happens sometimes is
• 39:33
  we, in the past, we have over
• 39:38
  we've made celebrities of people living their regular jobs. And I
• 39:41
  hear this from the community, all the time. It's like, I'm
• 39:44
  just a regular person. I happen to live with sight loss. Why am
• 39:46
  I a superhero for being able to put on my pants, on one, you
• 39:50
  know, one leg, right? Or a family? And I hear that on the
• 39:53
  other end, you don't want to underplay it, because vision
• 39:56
  loss is a nuisance. You know? It can it, but blindness can be
• 39:59
  can.
• 40:00
  Can be, can be a nuisance, can be a difficult thing to live
• 40:03
  through. If you don't have the right tools, it can be extremely
• 40:05
  disruptive. So you don't want to, you know, underplay it
• 40:08
  either. So you've got to find this, this, this balance where
• 40:12
  it's like, you know, there
• 40:15
  you have the right to identify any way that you want. I think
• 40:18
  that we've got to find a balance between over glorifying and
• 40:23
  underrepresenting, because it's no big deal. It is a big deal.
• 40:27
  Absolutely you.
• 40:30
  If the world doesn't understand the fact that you're capable,
• 40:34
  you will have a very difficult life. And so we have to keep
• 40:37
  telling stories about the Donnas and the cams and the others that
• 40:41
  that are going on Living Life With Blindness and going blind
• 40:47
  and their their life actually doesn't look any different than
• 40:49
  yours, other than some accessible tech, maybe a cane,
• 40:53
  but but the life, the lived experience, is essentially the
• 40:56
  same. So how do we find this moment to tell more stories so
• 41:00
  that people can stop focusing on disabilities and just focus on
• 41:05
  people.
• 41:07
  What do you think of the difference between visually
• 41:12
  impaired and vision impaired? Do you think there is a difference?
• 41:17
  What are your thoughts on this? It depends on the person. I've
• 41:20
  heard so many, so many iterations to this talk. I
• 41:25
  don't, I think people are trying to say going blind
• 41:29
  that they can't see very well, and they're finding other ways
• 41:32
  to use words that, you know are more you know, in line, we have
• 41:36
  a language guide, you know, we start with, you know, if you
• 41:41
  want to
• 41:43
  identify as being vision impaired, you know, if that's if
• 41:47
  that's the best way to describe what you see then and how you
• 41:50
  feel, that's fine. You know, visually impaired, I I don't
• 41:54
  think, I just think these, these words have sort of morphed
• 41:57
  throughout the years. I don't think it's been with a
• 41:59
  particularly profound amount of intention. You know, legally
• 42:02
  blind. What does that mean? Are people, other people, that are
• 42:05
  illegally blind? You know, there's just, there's all this,
• 42:07
  all this jargon and this language that comes with us.
• 42:10
  It's, it's, it's, I get it, but, and I don't think we all have to
• 42:13
  agree on the term. I think what we have to agree on, and what I
• 42:16
  what I'd like to start introducing, is that blindness
• 42:19
  is a spectrum. It's a range, and people live all over that range,
• 42:24
  or that spectrum, whatever, whatever choose we use, we
• 42:27
  choose Word, we choose to use. So, you know, you can be on the
• 42:31
  low end of the range, and just recently, adjusting to vision
• 42:35
  loss, still have a degree of sight, you know, starting to go
• 42:40
  blind, and then all the way to the end of the spectrum where
• 42:43
  you're totally blind, and you born that way, and this has been
• 42:46
  your life. That's what blindness looks like. So I think if we can
• 42:50
  get away from worrying so much about the words we use to
• 42:53
  describe an individual's lived experience, and spend more time
• 42:57
  on the journey that somebody with living with blindness is
• 43:03
  going to be on, then I think we'll do ourselves more more
• 43:06
  good than harm.
• 43:08
  Or you could take the David leposki approach, and I quote,
• 43:12
  I'm blind and I'm blind and I'm blind. What else do you want to
• 43:15
  know? He's great, isn't he? That is David.
• 43:19
  That is David's answer. You know, David is a legend, and
• 43:24
  David has done so much for this community and is and he is just
• 43:28
  such an amazing advocate, but he can't do it alone. He'll tell
• 43:32
  you himself, we've got to all sing on the same song sheet if
• 43:36
  we want government to listen to us, and it's not on the nuance
• 43:39
  things government's gonna mess up. They're gonna be all kinds
• 43:42
  of use that technical term again. Whoopsies. You know that
• 43:46
  are that, are that are done unconsciously we're not. This is
• 43:48
  not the first or the last time something like this is gonna
• 43:51
  happen. But if we can agree on the big stuff,
• 43:55
  if we can find ways to agree to make it easier for government to
• 43:58
  work with us and to recognize the allies and that are at the
• 44:01
  table and to really create a collaboration, then I think
• 44:06
  we'll be in a better space. I don't know, maybe I'm being
• 44:09
  optimistic, but I I just feel like the the
• 44:12
  community sees us in some ways and at times, not always as
• 44:17
  fragmented like I said. We don't always get along, we don't
• 44:20
  always agree that's okay, but when it matters, you know what
• 44:24
  we need to
• 44:26
  I think we're seen as often beating up each other, you know,
• 44:30
  get out of my way and this and that and the other. But I'm
• 44:33
  hoping that the circumstances that are taking place right now,
• 44:37
  that this will unite us and bring us together. I think the
• 44:40
  CNIB is in a perfect position to, you know, do this. And I
• 44:46
  know that you have thoughts on this, and we can talk about that
• 44:48
  later on, when you are, you know, ready to do so. But I will
• 44:52
  tell you, based with, you know, with, in the case of David, was
• 44:56
  I worked with David for two years on barrier freak.
• 45:00
  Canada, amazing experience. I learned so much from this man. I
• 45:05
  mean, you know, it was either his way or the highway, but you
• 45:08
  know what I was there to learn, and I learned,
• 45:13
  and if you don't want to work, don't go to David. If you want
• 45:18
  to work and you want to learn, suck it up and work with it.
• 45:24
  That's what I would say. I think that's fair. You know, I think
• 45:27
  David has a lot of lot of success in this particular he's
• 45:32
  got the scars to prove it. Yeah, the man has not done this
• 45:36
  unscathed. He's still very, you know, influential, powerhouse in
• 45:41
  the community. But I think, you know, we've got to find
• 45:45
  different ways to work with each other. It's because it's not
• 45:47
  just David, it's, you know, it's so many other blindness
• 45:49
  organizations that exist that I know CNIB has cast a shadow on
• 45:53
  in the past. I'm not interested in that anymore. Yes, we're
• 45:57
  probably the biggest organization in the blindness
• 46:00
  space. That's okay. It doesn't mean that we can't play nice. It
• 46:03
  doesn't mean that we can't play in the same sandbox. It doesn't
• 46:05
  mean that we don't that we have to agree on everything. But as
• 46:08
  CEO here, you have a voice, and I will listen to you, and
• 46:11
  ultimately, you can hold me accountable to whatever decision
• 46:14
  that I helped to make alongside with my team and my board. But
• 46:18
  we've got to get ourselves together. We can't all agree to
• 46:20
  one thing, and then have members of the community, you know,
• 46:24
  speaking from the side of their mouth, doing other things, and
• 46:27
  that that has happened in the past, right? We, we notionally
• 46:31
  agree, and then something, we find some press release or some
• 46:35
  radio interview where it's like, that's not at all of what we
• 46:38
  agreed to say. So I think, you know, I like what you know. I
• 46:42
  think, I think I like what you're saying. You know. Could
• 46:44
  this be the the awakening? And maybe it is. Maybe it, maybe it
• 46:48
  means that sometimes we have to put perfection aside, and we
• 46:51
  have to be okay with being 80% where you want to be, just to
• 46:56
  drive something through the line. Because getting 100%
• 46:59
  across every organization in the blindness space and then in the
• 47:02
  pan disability space is absolutely impossible, and I
• 47:05
  think that might be one of the reasons why we haven't advanced
• 47:09
  as much as I would have liked to have seen us as a country since,
• 47:12
  since the adoption or the passing of the accessible Canada
• 47:16
  Act.
• 47:17
  Maybe I think maybe I'm being harsh, maybe I'm being unfair.
• 47:20
  I'm just, no, I don't think so. My watching from the sidelines
• 47:24
  before becoming CEO, and you know what? I want to do
• 47:26
  something about it now that I'm in this position. Well, here's
• 47:30
  your opportunity. And you know, I think what concerns me
• 47:34
  personally is that we've lost some really
• 47:38
  meaningful advocates in the past few years, like Chris Stark, I
• 47:42
  don't know if you know Chris Stark, yeah, this was my mentor,
• 47:45
  and Chris taught me a hell of a lot. We've lost John Ray, for
• 47:48
  better, for worse. John, you know, John would like punch
• 47:52
  Yeah, he would light the fire and stand back and laugh,
• 47:56
  waiting to see who would want to put put it out, right? I mean,
• 48:01
  you know you either loved him or you hated him, but he was there.
• 48:03
  He was a long time advocate. So my perspective, that's for sure.
• 48:09
  And you know, and we don't need everybody in the community to
• 48:11
  agree with us all the time, and I know we've had a bit of a
• 48:14
  past, maybe has gone through a lot. It's 108 years old. Show me
• 48:18
  a single, 108 year old that hasn't burned a few bridges in
• 48:21
  their lives or made mistakes. Lives or made mistakes, but I
• 48:23
  think we're this team is willing to say, we hear you, we accept
• 48:28
  it, you know, where appropriate, we're sorry, and let's move on
• 48:32
  together, because we're not going away. We're here to stay.
• 48:35
  Blindness is growing rapidly. More and more people are
• 48:39
  identifying because maybe they're feeling safer to maybe
• 48:41
  they're seeing more examples, people who are blind, that are
• 48:44
  living on other lives. I think for me, you know, the future
• 48:48
  I've got in five to 10 years in this role, that's, that's
• 48:51
  probably, you know that my lifespan here as CEO, I want to
• 48:56
  help to become a global leader in accessibility. I want C and I
• 49:00
  B's role to be very clear. You know, in that transformation, I
• 49:03
  want, I want to help to find a Canada that needs to invest in
• 49:07
  the next generation of change makers, because that's it.
• 49:10
  That's the other thing. We have a lot of people. We've named a
• 49:13
  few that have been lifelong advocates, that are, you know,
• 49:18
  nearing the end of their career, past the end of their careers
• 49:21
  into retirement. Where's youth? Where are the young voices that
• 49:26
  are going to build tomorrow? And how do we get them to understand
• 49:29
  that they are need to work in allyship with those who have
• 49:32
  been around for a longer time and have to have the have the
• 49:34
  burns and the scratches to prove their their you know, their time
• 49:38
  in the advocacy space. But how do we get them to invest and
• 49:43
  lead some of these conversations? Because sometimes
• 49:46
  it's the same same people. So I'd love to get a sense of how
• 49:50
  we can empower young people with disabilities, not just to
• 49:53
  participate, but to lead. I think their voices, their lived
• 49:56
  experience, and their ideas, they have to be able to shape.
• 50:00
  Future from from the outset. So I think we're I'd like to see us
• 50:04
  committed to finding more Pathways for Youth Leadership
• 50:07
  and co creation in this space, because I think that's what's
• 50:11
  what that's what's missing today. We see them on social
• 50:13
  media. They've got a great story to tell. They're very effective,
• 50:18
  but they're absent in the change making, in the policy making
• 50:21
  space. And I'd like to do what we can not just see anybody
• 50:24
  itself with other organizations, bring them out of the woods and
• 50:28
  bring them into leadership roles to help drive some of this
• 50:31
  narrative. Is this conversation Donna is not going to be over,
• 50:35
  you know, after we speak to the Prime Minister's office for the
• 50:38
  next time, if this is this will be ongoing and living in
• 50:42
  perpetuity. So have we found our advocates that are youth today
• 50:47
  that aren't going to be young youth for much longer, that'll
• 50:50
  be, you know, in jobs, doing their parts, running Canada one
• 50:54
  day in the not too distant future? I don't know that we
• 50:56
  have,
• 50:58
  you know,
• 50:59
  you stole a question from me, because this is one of going to
• 51:02
  be one of my final questions would be, what would be your
• 51:06
  advice to anyone who wants to be a leader? And like for me, I
• 51:12
  think one of the first things, and you know about my
• 51:15
  transitioning to a new world program, about that off, off the
• 51:19
  record,
• 51:22
  they have to believe in themselves. First, they have to
• 51:25
  believe that I can fly. I can flap my wings and fly. I am
• 51:31
  somebody. I have something to give right, and then you build
• 51:35
  up their confidence and their independence. But I want to know
• 51:38
  from you, what advice do you have to our future leaders?
• 51:47
  The advice I have for whatever it counts,
• 51:53
  is to join us. Your voice matters. I don't care if you're
• 51:59
  not a poli sci major. You don't understand how government works,
• 52:01
  we can that's all teachable, but your voice not being part of
• 52:08
  what we're doing today is going to hurt the outcomes of the type
• 52:12
  of society that we believe you deserve. So join the fight now,
• 52:16
  and so that we don't have to fight forever. Thus, I think
• 52:21
  there's a home for you here. There are mentors. There are
• 52:24
  people with lots of experience and expertise that are happy to
• 52:28
  make sure that you have what you need to be part of this, this
• 52:31
  movement. But that's what it is we're trying to instill here is
• 52:36
  a movement. So join the movement. It's happening right
• 52:39
  now, and without your voice, you could easily be left behind.
• 52:44
  We're only stronger by the numbers, and we need to build
• 52:47
  them right now, because I know you're out there. So if you're
• 52:51
  listening in your youth, join the movement. Find us. Find your
• 52:56
  voice. Let's get some change going. Because I think it's
• 52:59
  right there. It's at our fingertips. I can feel it.
• 53:02
  And how do you let them know what you've just told me? What?
• 53:06
  How do they hear this message? How are you going to post this
• 53:11
  message all over social media? I will continue to do that. My
• 53:14
  Instagram, LinkedIn. You know, the the all the places where the
• 53:20
  cool cats go to find information. I'm constantly
• 53:23
  pushing this message out. And the good news is that we have
• 53:26
  several youth that are part of our youth council and part of
• 53:30
  our local boards and what have you in our programs that are
• 53:34
  that are pushing this messaging out too. So it's more than just
• 53:36
  me. I think, I think youth who are blind need to hear from
• 53:39
  other youth that this place is a good place to start, and that
• 53:43
  you know, you're treated well, and you get a voice, and you get
• 53:45
  to do really great things. So I think our job is taking the
• 53:49
  message that I've just shared with you and making sure that
• 53:51
  all of our youth and those who have a platform are armed with
• 53:55
  it, and invite invite others to join.
• 53:58
  Do you think our youth is ready? Do you think you know? Do we
• 54:01
  have to work on massaging their attitudes?
• 54:05
  It depends on the youth. I am super impressed by the caliber
• 54:10
  of youth that come our way. I mean, my goodness, they are
• 54:13
  articulate and convict and speak with conviction those that are
• 54:18
  early on in their journey that need a bit of exposure. The good
• 54:22
  news is we've got lots of ways to train and to train people up,
• 54:26
  but there's a fire inside every single youth that's been given
• 54:30
  that diagnosis, that's been told that their role is going to be
• 54:33
  limited,
• 54:34
  and that's been fighting it ever since that I can see unleashed
• 54:38
  when given these opportunities on various C maybe platforms and
• 54:41
  others. So I'm we need more more stories, more voices to really
• 54:46
  create the impact that we want.
• 54:49
  What are your parting words as we come to the end of this
• 54:52
  podcast? What advice do you have for Canadians with Disabilities?
• 54:59
  Oh, that's a big.
• 55:00
  Question.
• 55:01
  I told you,
• 55:04
  what advice? Joy. I just the advice. I mean, it's not even
• 55:09
  advice. My thoughts on this is that there don't give up. Now,
• 55:14
  the world is doing something very silly that I hope will
• 55:18
  boomerang back or to its home. I don't want us to see it as being
• 55:22
  deflated. I think the advice I have is to is to see what's
• 55:26
  happening in the world and to take responsibility and do your
• 55:31
  part. Do something about it. There are some advocates down on
• 55:35
  that will say, You know what? I advocate for myself every day.
• 55:39
  Sorry, clients that will say that I advocate every day and I
• 55:42
  don't want to advocate anymore for systemic change. Cniv, you
• 55:45
  do it fine. Then there are others that say, No, I don't
• 55:48
  want it to be CNN B's voice. I need it to be my voice, and
• 55:51
  that's fine as well. So wherever you land on that advocacy,
• 55:57
  just find your way to do your part, because there are 2
• 56:00
  million people out there that identify with having severe and
• 56:04
  prolonged vision loss. Where are these voices
• 56:09
  join us like this is this is now the time. Find our moment. But
• 56:12
  don't walk away and expect someone else or the government
• 56:14
  having figured this out for you or that it's not worth your
• 56:16
  time. It absolutely is, because we're on to something. And I
• 56:20
  hope in the next few years, you know when I'm you know when I'm
• 56:24
  on my way out and somebody else is coming on the way in. I want
• 56:27
  to look back to this interview and say, My gosh, look how far
• 56:30
  we've come.
• 56:33
  I hope and pray, and I'm very, very confident that you as a
• 56:38
  leader will make a difference. I mean, I will never forget the
• 56:42
  day you showed up in court.
• 56:46
  There you were sitting at the back of another Angela. You
• 56:50
  came, you know, and this was a big
• 56:55
  change, because in previous years, you'd not see CNI be
• 57:00
  participating in things like this, so that is a huge change,
• 57:05
  and I hope and pray that this continues. I am confident that
• 57:10
  we will catch the attention of the Prime Minister and his
• 57:13
  people, and that we would help to make a difference. And it's
• 57:17
  not just words alone. We got to support what we do, and we got
• 57:22
  to work with you, not work against you.
• 57:26
  Well, I mean, I think that there's a good foundation here
• 57:29
  of lots of forever changes that have taken place. I think now
• 57:32
  our time is to open up those doors, invite our allies in. We
• 57:37
  don't need to be the ones in charge. We're happy to avail our
• 57:40
  resources as long as it gets done. I don't really care
• 57:44
  whether they're seeing IBS brand is on it or not. I just need to
• 57:47
  see change. And I think maybe in the past, we kind of got stuck
• 57:50
  around the hierarchy of things, and I'm not that kind of leader.
• 57:53
  It's not that time anymore. Maybe it made sense the time it
• 57:56
  doesn't anymore. So I'd like to grow the cnid tent to fit 1000s
• 58:01
  more than it does today, because that's I think unleashing those
• 58:05
  voices is what's going to make Canada more accessible and more
• 58:09
  inclusive for everyone.
• 58:12
  Angela, it was a privilege and a pleasure to have had you on my
• 58:16
  podcast, and I do thank you for having taken the time to be with
• 58:19
  us today. The pleasure is all mine. As I said, thank you for
• 58:23
  bringing me and congratulations on the success of your podcast.
• 58:26
  I think you have a really great story to tell. Keep, keep doing
• 58:28
  what you're doing, and I'm happy to come back or I remember my
• 58:32
  team come we didn't even talk about Civ programs today.
• 58:36
  So I don't know how much time we have left, but if you don't, we
• 58:39
  don't have any Oh, oh, darn well, then we'll have you back,
• 58:43
  because I want to
• 58:45
  hear our member of our team. You know, I've got a number of
• 58:47
  members of we have a really good chunk of our team that has a
• 58:50
  lived experience that I think would be great talking to you
• 58:52
  about their program and both their attorneys. So, you know,
• 58:55
  just let me know the word and we'll, we'll get somebody and
• 58:59
  myself back. I'll have Aaron arrange it with you, but thank
• 59:02
  you so much, Angela, and have a great evening. You as well.
• 59:07
  Donna, thank you so much. All right. Bye, for now, we'll talk
• 59:10
  to you soon. Yeah. Bye, bye.
• 59:15
  Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at
• 59:18
  donnajardhand@gmail.com,
• 59:21
  until next time you.