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WeAreDevelopers LIVE - Tech Education in Two Languages · Coffee with Developers

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to We Are Developers Live.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: This week it's just me as Chris is away, but it's alright because as always I'll be joined by one of our guests.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: We've been over in the US in San Jose.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: We might as well continue with that theme.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I'd bring on somebody who I've been speaking to or following the social media going on for a little while, a few years now, I think, but um recently I know she's joined Talk and she's going to be joining us today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got Roxy Rodriguez Becker.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Good to meet you.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We only met about two minutes ago for the first time.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Good morning.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Nice to re-meet you in a five-minute span.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's good to have you on the show.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, I've been kind of following you for a little while, but this is the first time we've really uh actually met.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you already know uh Jason, friend of the show, he's been on a couple of weeks ago.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I stole his role.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying yeah, well, yeah, you're at talk now, aren't you?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so how what happened?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: How did that?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we'll start in a minute, you know, we'll go back to kind of where all this started, but but um, you know, where how did it all kind of come about then?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get into uh into your role at Talk?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I was actually a member of the community for about a year and a half.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was a very active ambassador.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: And whenever he um got his role over at JetBrains, um, you know, some of the community members expressed um that they thought that I was the perfect fit.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Jason really pushed for that because he saw how active I was as well.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I interviewed with Taylor, Brianna, and they agreed.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: So here I am.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: All right, maybe we should zoom out a little bit then and kind of give a bit more of a backstory.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you're in Houston, Texas.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as we said, we're in the you know, we've we've been over to the States recently.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's 9 a.m.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: for you, or half past nine in the morning, and it's 4 p.m.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: for me.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have finally worked out worked out how time zones work um after coming back from from the US.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, we we sort of take it for granted here in Europe, but the fact that you know there's a lot of flying if you're working in sort of community management and things like this um in DevRail in the US, and maybe we take that for granted a little bit in uh in Europe.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: But tell me how you kind of how all of this started then before you got into community management, DevRail.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: What was your kind of original um first step into tech and how did it come about?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I am I have a public education background.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was a math teacher for a long time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then whenever I started having kids, I needed to be more available.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I got my master's in library and information science and became a librarian.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one of the courses that I had to take was web development.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: So um, one of my roles as a librarian, I was always um keeping up with the website, making the updates, the changes.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, everyone came to me for anything that needed to be done in that regard.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I also had a live journal I had a MySpace.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I tweaked all that when I was younger.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: So even though in my mind growing up, that was never a career choice.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't uh, I was glad that later in life I did kind of rediscover my passion for development and sorry, I hate that word passion.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: But but yeah, so then I um I found 100 devs and I think um through like an internet search, you know, I feel like it pops up on Reddit a lot.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so I found 100 devs and I was an active community member for about a year.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I met Leon at Render ATL.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: He's the um he's the founder of 100 devs, he's like the main, he's the mentor, the teacher.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone goes to his streams.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I met him at Render ATL.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I met we hung out again at CYC, and he decided he wanted to try this experiment where he helps one specific person um obtain their uh first role in tech.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was the lucky chosen one, that's what they call it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's great.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so it was, yeah, it was a really fun.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: It almost it was it was very stressful.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I am incredibly grateful um to Leon for, you know, his mentorship and ongoing mentorship.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: He's you know, he's definitely a um rock in my life right now.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, so he helped me, you know, with interviews.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the I think um my torque interview was my 33rd.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yes, yeah, it's a tough margin, especially when you're transitioning.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so I was uh, you know, it was that was wonderful.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: He helped me with like my goals when I go to conferences, you know, who I should be talking to, what I should be looking for.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: And um, in the end, you know, Taylor said that part of the reason that he hired me was was um well, he loved that I speak Spanish and uh my network.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, all of the tips and tricks that and reasons that I went to those conferences and all the connections that I made, um, you know, in the end it did help me.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and yeah, so here I am.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'll we'll definitely come back to, you know, some of the stuff with um when you're talking about speaking Spanish, because uh we spoke just before the show that being from the UK, I think the stereotype is pretty true that we don't tend to learn second languages, but um I really think people can benefit from it because um I've seen it, as I said, with my daughter um learning Portuguese.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I said it before the show again that she's uh not even three and she's kind of surpassed my my Portuguese, so I thought it was good, but there's a difference between uh knowing it in theory or doing a bit of Duolingo and then thinking kind of in pr in practice, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you're talking about going to conferences, do you find do you use that much in the um in the kind of conference world now?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that because I've personally, you know, the the the demographic makeup is obviously different in California than it is in in the UK.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So going over to California recently in San Jose, I really saw that the benefit that you would have had if you'd spoken Spanish, not because of there being any real language barrier, but just for kind of meeting people where they are and not forcing someone to speak English as if if it's their second language, if uh for you it's no problem for you to speak Spanish as a kind of first or second language, you know, because I know you've spoken it since you were young.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, do you find that you kind of use it in that conference world now?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, and especially now working at Torque because we have a really big um la uh Latin American presence.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, oh my goodness, I just I I got this role in late March and in April we went to um Talentland in Mexico.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I mean, I was it's funny because we were working the booth and I hadn't even done like the whole Torkspiel in English yet.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I so like I just I learned it all in Spanish and I just said it in Spanish over and over, like all day.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was exhausting.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: That conference is the attendees are super active and they will line up like at the uh at your booth and just nonstop.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um any break that we got was I was so grateful for it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so we um I spoke it and I was speaking so much Spanish that I was even like thinking in Spanish, which is crazy to me because I, you know, as a child it was my first language, but living in America, once you start school, it's gradually becomes your second language.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, my mom teases me because of my accent.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I, you know, I I feel like the the native people, uh, you know, the native um the native speakers in the countries that we've visited.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think so so far it was Mexico and then Chile, which I believe was that same month, actually.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I was like I was I was immersed in it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then we were recently in Argentina.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so it was I I get a lot of compliments, and I think it's because people are glad that someone at the booth speaks Spanish.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really grateful for um, you know, my co-work, one of my coworkers that has been there consistently, um, that is from Mexico, that you know, she was definitely helping out.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I would always check with her and be like, hey, wait, did I say this right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: And and um so she was a big help.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then in Argentina we had some Ronstadt folks helping us, but it's it's just it's such a great help because you know, growing the tech speak is what's hard to translate as well.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: So luckily a lot of it kind of translate into into Spanglish, like um job matching platform, for example.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were they would just say machiad, and I'm like, oh, okay.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's yeah, just like yeah, so some of the words are easier than you would think because they just they just dump the Spanglish in.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, how about the accent?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you notice because that's something I've always been curious about?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear the difference?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I can only hear it really, you know, again, from from the sort of sport uh Portuguese aspect of European Portuguese compared to Brazilian Portuguese, there's a very, very different kind of tone, but they can obviously understand each other.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at times there's words where they say, you know, we don't use that, or uh we joke here that it's sort of not that different than what if you speak to somebody with a very heavy Scottish accent, um, where the terminology will be different, the words that are actually used, you know, but obviously it's the same language.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um can you can you hear the difference?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you always put down your own Spanish whenever I uh have mentioned it to you, you always say, Well, it's terrible, as in uh first language speakers will say how bad it is, but sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I am known to be self-deprecating.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when you grow up with like uh a critical Hispanic mother, I mean, I don't even have to say critical, I just say Hispanic mother, and you know.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, um, yeah, she uses my full name, Rosana.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm in trouble.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can understand that in Portuguese as well.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost exactly the same, isn't it?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's funny.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's funny because when I watch those, you know, like the reels or TikToks where people are imitating the different accents, like I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so true.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So whenever I went to Mexico and Chile and Argentina, there was always like a handful of people that would be like, is that a Cuban accent?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell my mom because I'm like, hey, you might criticize like the way that I speak Spanish, but they can identify my accent.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would be really proud, you know.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe not if I was hearing my daughter speak Portuguese with a uh a Bristolian British accent, which is really not a good one, but still, I think I I think the idea behind it is um I get what you're saying, definitely.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, let's jump into some of the stories from the week.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just moving my windows around a little bit.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um now I I have got one thing lined up here that I saw on your LinkedIn um that I just had to bring up because I I I wanted to get you talking about I wanted to get you talking about when you made your first website because I saw this.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I saw this.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And A, I just want to bring attention to one little detail here.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um dissolved six months ago, finally.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Angel Power.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I saw someone post when that happened too.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, wow.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was probably me, I'm not gonna lie.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was a sad day.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sad day in my house.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but on fire was for me, it was where it all started because it was um what I remember about it was uh it was you'd have the sort of 468 by 60, whatever it was, banner at the top, and it was but it's free hosting.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that was what for me as a 13-year-old, 14-year-old, was like mind-blowing was I could now have a website that that I could put online and I could put it somewhere and it would come with the the advert, but it was all going to be hosted.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's what's your memory of it?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: What did you what was your first website?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: What did you make it with?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: What was it for?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So my first website was like, gosh, I think it was a basic like about me website, but um, I remember I saw a movie, I don't know if you are familiar with it, called The Net with Sandra Bullock.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And in the movie, she put there's like on on the website, she's in she's investigating.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember the details, but there's like a pie symbol in the bottom corner.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get the symbol, where is it?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, and I even looked up the scene the other day because I brought it up um on Twitter.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yep.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so I put one of those in and it linked to a secret page of me and my boyfriend, like a picture of me and my boyfriend, and I think information about him or something, because I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend at the time.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like being super sneaky.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's like next level Easter eggs because it was.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for a start, you know, it was on a website that we we probably didn't get that many people on, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: They I always think about those sites now, like the they had the the guest book kind of counter at the bottom, you know, the visitor counter.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Was yours real?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Was your number real?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think mine was.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure I faked it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly, like, I'm such a dorky rule follower.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: For being for claiming to be an internet troll, I am such a rule follower.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's hilarious.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: That is hilarious.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, but I will say, my my husband, who was my friend in high school at the time, um, he had a his Angel Fire was like fully dedicated to his collection of Transformers.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, we're gonna we're gonna share that as a clip.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want somebody to beat that because um my I think my mine was almost definitely is quite embarrassing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was around, I mean, I was very much like Lincoln Park kind of time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh nice, yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was all fan sites, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But to sort of take it full circle, I did end up working in graphics uh for in the music industry.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it did end up, I put it down to like it's where it all started.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make sure I love it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right, we've got some stories from the week then.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got uh quite a few here.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, some of these I'll skim over, some of them we'll we'll talk about a little bit more, um, and I'll try and keep an eye on the time.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how we do.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so first things first, um, just a quick one here.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you can now do sign in with Chat GPT.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh OpenAI.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've got this article just sort of showing you effectively uh what's available.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: That my first thought with this like Google, GitHub.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um my first thought was really all of those things that um do we need another one?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um my second question is do we use anything except for Google and GitHub?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I I my first I always reach for Google first, and then if not, yep, GitHub.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and I don't know, I don't know how much information would transfer with signing in with Chat GPT.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does actually say that was something that I kind of uh thought as well that was obviously gonna be a concern.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it does say it doesn't independently share, so I also I do think what does that independently part actually mean in practice?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's saying that it only receives your name, email address, and profile picture, so that it's kind of like a superficial, you know, authentication in that respect.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um seems like we're gonna be scrolling through the options of what to log in with.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it it also makes me think that there's the um the fact that it's good that we can connect it for plugins, and that's that that does seem like promising.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be interested to see kind of what that actually you know looks like and how people use it, or if it ends up just being like another provider and then it becomes the big long list of corruptions, and you know, and that's about it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, we'll see how that one develops.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um this one here, actually, I I I I did quite like this.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now I will say that there's obviously a lot um in the in the kind of press or online spoken about the way that um all of the the big companies at the moment are kind of marketing different things, and uh some so basically some of the articles that we're reading that might be, you know, here's here's some big um post-mortem or here's some big sort of deep dive about maybe the the power of this latest model and how dangerous it is.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: People are saying, well, this could all that's also great marketing, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so trying to separate what is marketing from actually a good technical article, I think, can be a bit trickier.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but here they've got this about Claude being three times faster in a span in a span of two weeks.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what do you use?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use Claude before I ask you?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm a Claude girl, yep.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't aren't we all?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, aren't we all?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed any differences with it though?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I've noticed more so with um having it on Opus 5.5, but um I don't know, I feel like I'm always multitasking, so like I'll ask at something and move away.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I haven't particularly noticed the speed increase.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but maybe I'm just spoiled in that regard.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: And always just, you know, I think that it it's always been faster because I set it to the side as I'm working.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean that's interesting though, because I I was talking to someone last week and they were saying about um that development now is just pressing enter.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we've heard this for a while.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: When it was also auto-complete, it was development now is just pressing tab.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's development now is just pressing enter or just saying yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but from what you're saying, it's kind of it's something that you might do on the side.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, we're we're not we're not here just talking necessarily about clawed code, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: It could be that you're you're using it for another task.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I have no, you know what, I did use clawed code very recently uh yesterday, and I I did notice that it was going faster.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, because typically I feel like I would sit and stare at that one a lot.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I I brainstorm with Claude, and then yeah, with Claude Code, I'm um I I was working on a little project.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you find it interesting though with that as well?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I've noticed that if I'm if I'm trying to plan something, you know, going into clawed code, um, especially on like the mobile, um, it doesn't make it very easy to actually switch into to um planning mode.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even sure if there is a tab to go into planning mode on mobile.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a feeling that it's just through like the prompt, you know, but it means that sort of I was thinking this that how much how many tokens will be will be spent by people just asking an innocent question and then Claude kind of doing that thing that it does where it goes, no worries, I'll just make you a nine-page HTML and then I'll wrap it into a you know a um uh uh a framework and then I'll download all it install all of these packages and I'll basically completely over-engineer something that you just wanted in text form.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um do you do you kind of Yeah, that happened that happened to me a couple times the last the last couple of days.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You sort of throw an idea in and it just takes you in and starts coding.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and it does, yeah, it does pull out those documents a lot faster.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: But but yeah, I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, slow down a bit, you know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's interesting to see.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think for the numbers nerds, they'll they'll love this.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I'm definitely a numbers nerd to be honest, so I do love this.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um, and the fact that they are showing you just not just the you know increases but the actual time difference as well.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's definitely something interesting in there that if um if that's your your cup of tea, like trying to keep up with the the kind of uh tip of the spear, because I think this is another thing that you'll see in some of these links that's proving difficult, right?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that we see so many of these articles that there's so many updates, whether it's new models or it be minor updates to models, or it just be these general here's some of the the back end infrastructure that we're changing articles.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you ever keep up or can keep up?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um I've been told not even to try.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, um, you know, not completely, but you know, wherever wherever you are interested, you know, keep up there, but don't don't try to keep up with all of it because it's too much and it's overwhelming.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And like, I mean, it's great that Claude is faster, but it also kind of makes me nervous for you know how much we're expected to produce now because everything is getting faster.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking to somebody about it the other day because like I said, I used to be a math teacher.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: I was actually over the math department for four years, and when you know, it was a lot back then, and I remember I was always like the person that sort of um if someone was struggling, like I would just like you know, with whatever Excel chart table we were working on, um, I would just finish it for them, like whatever it was.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, when I went back to the same school as a librarian, I was on the leadership team and the current math department head, I had hired her as a teacher.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I was talking to her about the role, and um, I'm just like, oh my goodness, like everything they are expected to do.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like I probably had three, three to five days to do it, and she uh was expected to do everything in like two to three, because you know, you get your test results right away, everything's on a computer now, and it's I don't know, it just reminds me of how fast AI is moving and how much faster developers are expected to work now.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean just focus on that as well, the the education part though, because I think I was a teacher myself as well for 10 years before I um moved into tech.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I related a lot to what you were saying at the start about trying to kind of um find the time to you know um move across to something else.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously, you know, and you did it as well with a family, so I think even more, you know, uh commend you on that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: But um when you think about the way that sort of developer education has changed, you know, that do we take the time to learn anymore or do we just go, well, okay, it's essentially now a prompting game.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So as long as I kind of know enough about whether it be just um architecture in general, so I can make sort of a relatively good, you know, this idea of everything becoming quite general knowledge, um, and that the specialism maybe isn't so important because now we can offs offload that to the LLM or expect it to fill in the gaps where we might not have the knowledge.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do we how do we fight that though, or is it is it worth fighting it, or do we just have to adapt that maybe learning is is different now?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I it's you know, I've I've thought about this.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I listen to a lot of podcasts, and so I've you know I've heard the conversations around it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I I still think that we need the human in the loop.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, you know, even machines are going to make some sort of mistake.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that the deeper you go within a program, um, you know, the you do need like human eyes checking.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because say that the prompt, you know, and it also, you know, the prompt matters as well.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, you can't just ask for an entire app.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I guess some people are like trying to see how much they can one-shot, but I think like the deeper you go, you know, the more detailed prompts you need.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, gosh, there are whole like podcast episodes and articles of like how to create the perfect prompt now.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I think everything in life ends up being a circle.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that humans are gonna be more important um than we than than we think they are at the moment now with all with AI.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um so like, you know, we need the we need the connection first and foremost, and then we need the eyeballs in the in the code.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna see if I can find the um link here.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of these, yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so this was uh one of the things that I think I saw that one.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it it made me kind of, you know, what some of the stuff you were saying then, you know, definitely made me think.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think that there was something in there, so I kind of I can see how the long form content is struggling.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, I feel like people are still mindlessly scrolling reels, TikTok, etc.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you know, short form is super helpful right now to get people going.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um maybe to get them to transition to the long form.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah, I can see how they're struggling.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even on what we do, really, you know, where we don't sort of technically do developer education, it's more about the the kind of talks from the speakers.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're not necessarily, you know, doing the educational content.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the the short form content will obviously do a lot more, uh do a lot better.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be it'll be snippets of conversations like this, you know, and then you're guiding people into someone who's maybe um uh leading a company talking about it kind of in detail, you know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's those, it's the same idea, isn't it, of like a hook grabbing somebody.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've got uh we've got uh Salma Alaner.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now she used to work as as it says in developer relations, she's been on the show before.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was really sad that she wrote this this article recently because she's incredibly talented with sort of video, she makes music, she does all kinds of um content, she's very technical as a as a software engineer as well, lots of live streams.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: But she left Devreau, she just left it entirely, and it was interesting because it was the same week that I read her article saying that she was leaving that I had a message from a friend of mine who's a CTO, has been working in London for the past five to ten years in that role, or the last five years or so in that role, but has worked in tech for the last say 15 years, and he said he said to me, I'm looking to get into DevRel, and he said, Because agents are doing everything, and he said, But the one thing they can't really do is like the human bit where we speak to people and we actually make people care.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then he said, How do I get how do I get into DevRel?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because he said that's the way the world's going.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, these are two people that have got completely different, opposing views of the world right now.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you think that the human will be in the loop, and so I'm I'm presuming, and I mean I mean we're probably biased, but I presume that you think that we're still gonna have communities of developers, right?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because we probably, especially at the enterprise level, are always going to need a human just for those that that pure kind of can you risk it, you know, if you remove a human.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and coming from somebody that you know I went to up until March, I was, you know, around hundreds of people a day.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um and like probably regularly, you know, like five to ten during the day, but I was still around people.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so now, you know, all ever, you know, especially since the pandemic, so many people work from home.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if they have kids, maybe they're at school during the day.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like you are alone.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I know, I know personally, especially now that I'm in this role, I love going to meetups, I love going to conferences because I love to be around like-minded people.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have, you know, you have your weekly stands-up stand-ups and everything, but you need that connection.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's part of the reason that I think that like our Discord community is so active and so close.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's, you know, you just you need to talk to people that are in the same, that are dealing with the same sort of things, you know, maybe not exactly the same circumstances, but you're in the same little world, the same bubble.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, so I just think that if we just completely rely on AI for everything, oh my gosh, like even the videos, as good as they're getting, like you can just they just feel so cold.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's I don't know, if you know, if that's what we completely rely on, then I I worry for how like you know, empathy is gonna is gonna, you know, taper off.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's we're not gonna we're not gonna doom scroll that, but yeah, keep the people.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Keep the people, yeah, I agree.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Something you said there about the the the videos though, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really, really interesting point because you know there's that sort of uncanny valley, we've got this this little thing that lets us know that's not human, and it just goes off in the back of our head, doesn't it?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just feel it.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's actually really powerful because I think what it fundamentally is is kind of like on a human level, it's is this thing either one one of us, like a human being, or like one of us, it sounds awful, but you know what I mean?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it like one of us as a human being, or is it like a um uh artificial thing that we just don't connect with in the same way because we don't apply all the human kind of attributes that we kind of like dignity, for example, naturally give to human beings.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think that as long as we can tell those things, as long as they set off that little uncanny valley feeling in the back of our heads, AI's not there.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: AI is not going to replace people because that's the bit that will that will always be in the back of our head, just making us go, mmm.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I always think it's the same as films like um The Life of Pi, where they were uh really.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: I read that book a long time ago.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I saw the movie.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, well, we the you know the the most sort of um impressive thing about the film was the um the CGI and the fact that the tiger, I believe it was a tiger, because every time I say tiger, it's lion, every time I say lion, it's tiger.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I believe it's a tiger, yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is a tiger, yeah, from memory.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um that the tiger looks very impressive.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Same with Final Fantasy, the film years ago.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember these were sort of ahead of their time.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after a while, they you start to realize, you know, once the novelty's worn off, that they don't look that good actually.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they there always was something that in the back of your head that went, mm-hmm and I don't know if we're anywhere near getting rid of that, because we can tell AI slop when we see it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and you know, whenever it's obvious AI, you know, and they're trying to be creative and whatever, like that's fine.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: But when it's it bothers me when it feels like a lie, yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like even something silly, like scrolling Instagram.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think there was like a really funny dog with its eyes like wide, like it was scared, but then there were so many videos of it looking like that, like in weird places that you wouldn't allow a dog.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is a lot, you're lying to me.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like this, so I was I was like angry.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like one of the whole entirely, entirely fake, you know, the deep fake influences that used to be.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Michael Michaela, that was it, yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And she was one of the very early ones that was um, they were like a robot living in Las in Los Angeles.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this was quite early on.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure where when it was.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: They are uh streaming platforms since 2017 was releasing you know um music and things like this.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this was like the first time I'd really seen anything like this where it was somebody who is entirely fictitious.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the images like this used to be quite GTA looking, they all looked very like video gamey, and then they've just slowly over time got better and better and better, and they look more more real.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean the the strange thing obviously is the entire world of AI influencers, we won't get into that too much because it's very weird.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so one is that this CFP here for the HT HTML advent calendar, um, they've got uh the CFP still open and they want some more submissions.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody who wants to write about HTML, uh make something fun, can submit it there.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just gonna give them a shout out there.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um also the this one here I thought was quite fun, and we will at the end of the show get into well.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: This this will all become clear why I've put this in here, but I'm not gonna tell you just yet.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: But have you ever been to the great website example.com?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Probably by accident.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Probably by accident.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's have a look, what's there right now?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing at all.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, as you can see, somebody's done a very deep dive on all the different iterations for example.com.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um including a massive redesign that they've done.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now I love this because it's the one where it feels like the entire article could be parody because it's so detailed.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that's a lot.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just I I don't know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: The idea of somebody saying what you're up to, just writing my article about the complete history of example.com.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I love the fact somebody did, you know, it's it's great.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: They've really done the full deep dive here with even like the date of a Cloudflare migration.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's great.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of time on their hands though, because that article goes on and on and on.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, over to this one.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Reddit is killing RSS feeds.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now uh I can ask you about either part of that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use RSS feeds and do you use Reddit?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Very differently.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: I use Reddit.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you'd think that with as much blogging I did in my past, I'd use RSS feeds.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: I probably did in the past, um, but currently no, I do not.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I've they feel like a little bit of a an older world, and I mean older world, I mean I mean I'm part of that world, I was around in that world, but you know, it still feels like um an early internet thing that that caught on with some people, but I wouldn't say that the I always like to try and step outside of this bubble that we're in, think about the average user, and then think, well, you know, the non-tekies, the non-devs that we will use whatever.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: That I would imagine that RSS feeds were not that widely used.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't know, I've always I've always been fascinated and thought like whether it's just me, that they went over my head or something, you know?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I feel like it was so I remember uh years ago when I blogged, um, I think I started on Blogger, and uh I know that like you could follow blogs, right?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then they would appear in your feed, sort of like Instagram, Twitter, etc.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Look at that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had to see if it was still there and to see if it's still there.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Same logo, same logo.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, whenever I took it over, whenever I started using my blog as a side hustle, I migrated over to WordPress.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have since retired it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I and so I that's I think that was the last time I probably um really paid attention to RSS feeds.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I can't think even the last time I would have used them to be fair.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um couple of things, these are just quite fun little things.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this I thought was pretty amazing.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it made me want to go dig up my Walkman from from years ago.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just incredible, isn't it?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean the the I mean it's so smoothly done.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, you don't know how much of this you know just gets vibe-coded, and I don't think it even really matters because it's so well done.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just got it's got a lot of taste to it, and I think this is the thing that um when we were talking a minute ago about sort of AI video and things like this, that it just doesn't make the same decisions as humans.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really good example because somebody said to me uh recently, a friend of mine who's a music producer, um, and I was asking him questions about producing kind of technical things.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was saying, How do you do this?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do this?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there was some um there was one point where I said to him, Do you know, should I use like a plug-in to sort of analyze the different the EQ and basically see if I got too much high-end or too much low end?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, No, just put different headphones on.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Really?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: This this can't be the advice you're giving.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Surely you use something technical.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, You can use all the plugins you like, but at a certain point you just have to have taste and you just have it or you don't.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's a really interesting point because I think the same, even with vibe coding.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think you can vibecode something, but actually, when you said about um putting together the perfect prompt, I thought, well, it's kind of just being able to envisage or visualize as many details as you can and then communicate them as concisely as possible.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you do that, I think you can get something like this that's actually like really, really nicely done.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if this wasn't vibe coded, sorry to the person who I'm just yeah I'm using it as an example.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, what do you think?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Am I wrong with that?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That that that taste is something maybe you can prompt in?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, for sure, because even you know, if even if you are you know prompting um the entire build, you have to know like how you want it to look, but also if you don't have good taste, then how you want it to look might not look great.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and actually I think maybe the the LLMs that the the the people that fall into that second category, I think that's where the LLMs are great, in that if your taste isn't very good, right?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think, or or maybe it can just be, you know, um uh design awareness, just having a good idea of like colour schemes that work well.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: For the most part, the the LLM is gonna give you an uh a colour scheme that has fairly high contrast, it probably passes a lot of the tests, you know, and it will at least be something that's like passable.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've done it yourself, you you may have made worse decisions.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's there's a middle ground there, I suppose, you know.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it has to like I don't know, it has to like feel good in my mind when I see it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know exactly what you mean.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is this is the but even the way you said it, feel good in my mind.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I get what you mean, and it's these things that we we talk so much about building things with AI and and using LLMs, but we don't talk about the things that are hard to define because they're hard to define, and we think maybe that other people don't experience them.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, like even when you're when I'm editing a graphic or something, I'm like, ah, I feel like that needs to be like scooted like just scooched over like a little bit just to like like to like feel complete.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because maybe maybe it is just adding the human element to it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's because I've always felt like something that's perfect and like doesn't have a um kind of any ridges.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: I it's a weird analogy, but I almost I think this about lots of things, like it could be the the MacBook Air, the way it looks or so perfect, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's something in me that that's I have to put then put a sticker on it, or I have to then smudge something or scuff an edge.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I wouldn't want to do that to my MacBook.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: This idea that something that's perfect just feels like fake or cheap.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Turn the sticker a little bit.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, just something.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just give me something that makes it a bit.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a photo on the wall, you know.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just want it to be one degree, just so I can't one degree off.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um there you go.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this one here, I love this.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know if I'm gonna play the audio, we'll see, because it's very heavy.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um this is one of my um this is one of my go-to karaoke songs.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it really well sing along then.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you haven't got the audio, you will have it.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, you know, I can't hear it.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, that's a good excuse.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can't hear it now, yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this is uh I love stuff like this because I just think any time that you get someone making something that's um got this much code in it, but is also so silly, I think it's so much fun.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that too.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm always like, they don't have kids, do they?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I think exactly the same.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you know what?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be honest with you, the times when I spend that little bit of time that I do have when I'm not with my kid building something like this, and then I go, damn, I've got kids, what am I doing?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's when I should be using my time more effectively.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you hear other people say, It was only when I had kids that I became so good at time management.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, I didn't build that, but it's that kind of thing, you know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm good at wasting time.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we'll skip over this one here.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, this I'm gonna have to give you the fullback story to this one because I know you're gonna say, Why are you including this in this?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um have a look at this article.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I did, yes, I did.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there's two stories to this.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, um having been in uh the US last week, one of the topics that came up the most with um attendees, other members of the team, people that we'd speak to, was the gaps under the door in the US.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's yeah.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a nationwide thing?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Was our first question, or is it just California?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the second question's why.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh third question, I suppose, is do you ever get used to it?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: So the why, I don't know, but it's useful when you know toilet paper hasn't been refilled and you need to pass somebody some toilet paper.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um asked uncorrected.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: This might be TMI.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: You decide if you want to cut it out or not.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I have been laughed at by a friend because I am I'm sorry, I don't know the conversion.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I am just under five feet tall.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so there are some, yeah.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: I remember a friend of mine laughing because like my feet bare like because of the dumb gap, she could see that my feet were like barely touching the floor.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it's kind of it can be very embarrassing for some people.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it's super weird and I really appreciate the bathrooms.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it varies because I've been, I'm in Texas, but I've been to restrooms, you know, the famous Bucky's bathrooms, they do not have the gap.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I think maybe that's one of the reasons people love them.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so it just varies.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh the second question behind this actually was that um this was just on a stand-up with Chris, my boss, who usually presents the show.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we'd we'd basically said that you know, we'd noticed the gap in the door.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd said, well, I'd been through a lot of actually way, you know, way worse bathrooms, right?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because they were all fine, at least they're all nice and clean, um, even with the gap.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, play playing in a band, I saw some horrendous ones, and I mentioned that at one point we'd considered a photo kind of project or an art project where we would take images of all these different bathrooms, and then this led to Chris saying, you know, I exp I'd imagine that today somebody would just do like a 3D scan of the room, and then they and so this what was a very silly idea that we thought we were just sort of imagining and thinking how it would come about, uh it exists, and it it just proved that thing to me of like if you can imagine it, someone's on the internet doing it.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's actually done.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: If I scroll down, a where is it?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let me find it.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Has he got the oh I've got to find the scan in here?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is in here.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: They should do a whole subsection of bar bathrooms because those are usually really cool looking.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, wow, I mean, look at this.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, relatively clean, right?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it no, actually not, no, not at all.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: I saw I saw this but I thought, okay, it could be worse, but no, it's horrendous.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, love the fact that somebody's built this project, it's very silly and a lot of time for it.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can scroll, you can zoom.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: I did wonder that.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, very nice.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Moving on.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as we were saying then, so the kind of idea that you've moved across obviously from education and uh kind of being in tech now.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a number of things that I I felt anyway when I moved across um into tech that were sort of up against me.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it felt like I suppose more things were up against me than actually the benefits that I was bringing, you know, and the the skills I was bringing.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like I was re-kind of setting my career kind of from zero, but actually um, I had people telling me, I suppose, no, no, no, being a teacher or being in education is a massive, massive plus.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's skills that you maybe don't even notice are skills because you just speak all day.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but what have been the what's been the biggest skill that you've brought across from education into tech that you're really kind of noticing um makes a difference and can set you apart from other people?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm looking over some material, I know that I'm going to be explaining it to people.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I feel like I'm I'm really good at breaking it down for different levels.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you're in education, you kind of have to learn to differentiate instruction.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Some kids need the visuals, you know, some kids need uh longer explanation.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: They want to see it in action.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so and it's, you know, especially coming from math, I loved showing the work.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: I like seeing the steps.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think in that regard, that was that's definitely a big skill that I bring with me.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think that, you know, you're around so many different people, like so many different people.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I taught in a middle school.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the different, different personalities.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that you get really good at reading people, reading the room.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you you're able to react to different personalities, you know, in a more appropriate manner.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think that I think that that's a big skill, especially, you know, um, I feel like developers get a bad rap for for you know having interesting personalities.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that it's important.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's definitely an important skill to bring with me.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, so whenever I saw this, I, you know, it was very pleasing to the eye.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: I I too am a visual learner.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I suppose that was going to be one of my um my my questions is about actually how you learn then, because I think that sometimes you know I'm guilty of it because I'm a visual learner, I then would always teach in a very visual way.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to learn to maybe make sure I was being, you know, uh kind of matching up, I suppose, what I was saying with what I was showing, and not just putting so much emphasis on the visuals of it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're in in the world of tech where most of the delivery or at least a good amount, Of it that you're going to do, most teaching or education, is going to be in strange forms.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's uh on a stream, um, it could be on a video that somebody's watching in their own time, it could be that you're not even on the screen and it's just the visuals of what of what you're showing.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what I've noticed about you is you you you kind of like to make content of quite a few different kinds, you know, you're you're never doing uh one specific thing, and I think that to me speaks of somebody who's quite good at teaching themselves new things.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And is that something that you would say accurately kind of describes you?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it seems that way from the Yeah, oh yes.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: I am I am a lifelong learner.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I, you know, um, yeah, and I do post, you know, I used to blog.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I feel like long form is harder to get eyes on now.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, luckily, I feel like um develop there's plenty of developers that still write articles, share articles, read articles.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um most of my long form now is on LinkedIn because it feels I feel like it's just more conducive to that environment.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, Twitter, I'm an Instagram girl, so I always got to include a photo.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I uh I don't know.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I love and I also really like um figuring out, not figuring out, but like testing the algorithm.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I like to see if there's like some kind of pattern.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: I used to make um, I mean, some I still kind of do, but I I uh side hustle my Instagram.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I like to know when the best time to post is, when I'm gonna get the most views, um whenever I have a campaign or something going on.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I've definitely kind of done something similar, but I think there's there's something there about actually with DevRel that for most of us it kind of uh so social media is just part of the job, right?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that it's just it's not necessarily gonna be the be all and end all of the job.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be the the the reason you kind of do or don't get a job, you know, just how many followers you've got or whatever, obviously what you're actually adding to the the community.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But do you find that because uh it was actually Jason who came on and he used the phrase uh personality higher?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd never really thought of that, and I and and in a way, I think I think he was saying it like maybe self-deprecatingly about like himself, I don't know, but it was a way but I mean it as a compliment because it was it's actually the fact that you know when you do put out your personality out there, right?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, you're being yourself, and that's great, but um we're also probably not recognising that your personality then is something that other people then grab onto and that they they want to learn from that person or they want to be part of that community.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so do you think it's sort of you know is is important as well, maybe for that just like wider having a personality, like being being a real person?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I see that from you where it's not all just things you're building or code.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, for sure.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: I before I got into tech, people think that I've been in tech for longer than I actually have because I barely, I think I barely post about what I'm building because I'm more interested in like people's lives.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm like uh post, you know, I post about my own life.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I do, you know, I build on the side and I talk about it in certain communities, but I don't know, for the most part, I'm like here, let's let's talk about something fun.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like you probably are in Slack, you're in Discord all day, like talking about, you know, these other things.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's discuss, I don't know, something personal, something more fun.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: I also think that um authenticity, like when you're a personality hire, I think you also need to be you off you obviously have like an authentic personality.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said, like people want, like they trust you, like they'll learn from you.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're somebody that is really interested in whatever it is you're learning, like um I really have fun and I I haven't I haven't done any recently, but I really have fun.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like whenever I before I got my job at Torque, I would post like little tutorial videos, and those were always super fun because I would try to make them more authentic and fun.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: And as somebody who taught math to middle schoolers, you know, like you have to, you have to turn, you have to either be very energetic or, you know, turn something that could be boring into something more interesting.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I did such a silly little tail scale video um in my on my LinkedIn profile.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I tied it into the old theme song for tail spin.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: And like um one of my kids hopped on, you know, like it wasn't anything I was applying for anything for.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was just something that I wanted to do for fun, just to kind of show off like that I can edit, that I, you know, I can come up with silly ideas.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think that stuff like that is and obviously when you are in a role, um, you can't you can't make it quite, you know, as fun, copyright, blah, blah, blah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, but yeah, I think that it's important to like bring your personality into what it is you're creating.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that's why like the human in the loop is important because you know, you're sh cool.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: This AI just explained, you know, this quick start doc to me.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: But like, you know, I I don't know, I'm bored now.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do something else.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah, yeah.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and the thing, you know, when we're saying about uh delivering things then in sort of two two languages as well, right?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that's so much more engaging if you feel that there's somebody there who's actually got some some personality and you know a little bit about who they are.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as we're saying, if it's something that I don't know, I think there's something that when you're when you're kind of learning in that second language, um, or that there's sometimes those nuances in the second language that you might not have in the first.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so being able to sort of bring in, you know, whether it be like a turn of phrase that just kind of works a little bit better, and if you're if you're speaking to somebody who's also bilingual, as we said in in California, like so many uh people being bilingual, I can only see that that's just like uh even more to add, you know, the visual side of it with the the videos that if if there's things like humour in the videos as well, it can completely like transcend language full stop.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I only found out recently the show Mr.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Bean, you know, uh Rowan Act in the old comedy.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea that show was as big as it was worldwide.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: I genuinely thought it was like a really British little quaint thing that I I don't know how I missed it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody in the US was like, Wow, Mr.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bean, and then I was like, Oh, you you know Mr.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Bean?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really weird.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, that's kind of strange.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then they were like, You want yeah, I could understand it because they didn't grow up in the US, they'd grown up, you know, non non-English speaking, and they said I could understand it because he didn't speak.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was yeah, because he doesn't he barely talks, yeah.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know where else that show is accessible?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: I used to live in Saudi Arabia when I was a kid and we'd watch Mr.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Bean.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow, okay.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: So do you do you speak any Arabic or oh gosh, I just I can do like one to ten, I can do like um hi, goodbye.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: I like to tell people because I always notice it now that like once since living in Saudi and like hearing people speaking, um, yella means hurry, and you'll hear it in like so many movies, especially I think like Michael Bay, whenever they're like in some kind of war scene or whatever, like Michael Bay movies, you'll hear like yella, yella.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it means hurry.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, how much of the web is just English dominated, like completely and utterly?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have you ever built anything or that wasn't left to right?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and if if not, would you know where to start?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I kind of thought to myself, I think other than I believe there's a CSS property around direction, I would be like, okay, this is a whole thing I have to go and learn about now.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are the conventions?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I I was like, oh my gosh, that's that's so weird to think about.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, it's like, you know, when it's a language that you already speak, um, I feel like your brain, like like with me in Spanish, like your brain just kind of flips on and off, like depending on like sometimes I'll be like, What's this word in English?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how to describe it.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or like Spanglish, just in general.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I feel like that's someone who speaks Arabic fluently would be like, Oh yeah, no, that's easy to like they would just like instinctively go whichever way, you know.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's it's from really interesting from like a um a development point of view as well, of actually trying to handle that because you know, we talked before about um the worst cases are when developers try and hand and try and define and handle the size of the text, you know, not allowing it to be scaled up and down.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh imagine if you were that kind of pedantic that you then wanted to try and do it with the the kind of how many words are on a line and all the kind of word wrapping.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna make your website truly accessible, you have to give up on even the direction it's going.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's that's great to hear.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's kind of good to be reminded of, you know.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that I yeah, I was like, I don't even yeah, I just don't even know how I would if I was uh if I spoke Arabic, if I'd like just immediately flip it or like appreciate that it was pre-flipped.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I wonder, I I don't know how it would work.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I understand the thing you're saying though about kind of flipping in your mind to to your kind of um Spanish mind, or you know, and seeing my kind of uh friend who's who's Portuguese uh will kind of half say a sentence sometimes, and even my daughter will do it where she'll she'll say half of a sentence.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: The other day she said there's a bird on the casa.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and even being able to hear the other day, I can now actually hear that she's got a very, very British accent when she speaks Portuguese because instead of obligado, she'll say obrigado, and I can hear the wh at the end.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I I can hear the accent all of a sudden.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we're gonna show you 12 headlines, and it's up to you to tell me which are real and which of them we made up.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Scammers used an AI voice clone and a fake WhatsApp message to move$95 million out of an Italian bank.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's news.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: AI voice clones, they can they still fool a lot of folks.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the fake WhatsApp message feels like it would be an easy way to deliver it.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yes, yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like my parents would totally.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: They don't have 95 million, but they would fall for it.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yay! Okay, the world is still as dumb as I think.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm skidding.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: Open AI raises API prices 35% uh percent, citing rising compute costs and exceptional demand from government infrastructure contracts.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very long one.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um that sounds so real that I want to say that it's fake, only because that's a pretty big price hike.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that I didn't hear about it either, so I think you might be right.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yay! Yeah.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, there's so many competitors.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Why would you raise your prices?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: People would have been whining about it all over Twitter.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: NASA has a dragon dilemma, and there appear to be no good answers.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: I should know this.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in Houston.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you really should, yeah.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you can do it in the next 16 seconds, see if you can do it.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Houston, Roxy has a problem.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: Fake.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: NASA has to know everything.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dragon dilemma, what even is that?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, now I have to look it up.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: What the heck?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um researchers create a biodegradable alternative to plastic.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that isn't that always something people are working on?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I feel like there's so much money in plastic.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yep, yep.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's never there's never gonna actually be a solution.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: Paper straws, man, what's that?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Slack's threaded AI replies sometimes respond to conversations in the wrong channels, creating confusion.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that sounds accurate.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: News.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has to be.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Slack is just confusing sometimes.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and agents are just not great.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like these these are good.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: We have like two different agents in our Slack right now that are replying everywhere.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Mozilla adds AI generated daily crossword to Firefox's new tab page built from summarized news.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: I keep saying news to everything, but I'm gonna go with news.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds fun.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a fun use of AI.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yay!
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Number seven, personal AI agents quietly upsell users that they think are rich.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's fake.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: Too many rich people would be upset and they have too much pull.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like and also uh that they think a rich just feels strange.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like think.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 56:13
  unknown: Okay.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, we we won't name and shame them, but you know, you can probably Google the headline and then just avoid those agents.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Honed blaster, hacking your PC using your speaker without ever touching.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so bonkers.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Using your speaker.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I remember this one thing called NetBus that people would use in ICQ.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna say news.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: You could open up people's CD drives.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, okay.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I never knew this one, but I love it.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Look at this.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's brilliant.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Open the CD ROM, okay, with the host name.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right, back to the game.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I'm gonna say real just because it brought back that memory.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think everything's real, apparently.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know I don't think I think I've said fake one time, maybe.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's real.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Say real enough times, you're gonna be right, some of them.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: Humans are reading co-pilot prompts and they're horrified.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this sounds like news too.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want and I don't want people looking through my searches.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I feel like copilot prompts could be the same.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Horrified is a little extreme though, but you know.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: News likes to be extreme.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: News is very clickbaity.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: You nailed it.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Number 10.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok algorithm update demotes videos longer than 90 seconds across all verticals, and creators report a massive reach drop.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: So they're I think that's fake because I feel like they've been pushing longer content recently.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like I know you can go up to six minutes, and if it's a good story, like I like the apple Appalachian side of um Reddit and TikTok.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'll stick around for those.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, doing well.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Six out of ten.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Got a good streak going.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see, get on the last two.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Linux kernel update accidentally replaces all error message with Chinese comments.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fake.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: 7 out of 11.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: No pressure, but you're doing well.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see if you can get the last one.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, more NASA?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: More NASA.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: NASA chief concerned China may deny access to parts of the moon's south pole.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't realize that anyone owned the moon.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my my brain's doing flips as well, which makes me think it's fake.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna okay, I'm gonna go with fake because yeah.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Don't blame me.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh dang it.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're second.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Silver.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Jason Torres has gone down to fifth and Mark as well.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's funny.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh look, I'm not mad that I'm not mad that Andrew beat me.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: I like Andrew.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, he was on a tear as well.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think he got the first two wrong, and then as you can see, you've got a streak of six and he just went straight through to the end.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: I do wish that I had eight.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because you're a maths teacher and you want the even number, or is that just because of the NASA head?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I just want to be one higher, just so I'm not tied.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just so you're not tied, I see.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it's probably a maths thing as well, just yeah, absolute numbers or something.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: That pretty much brings us to the end of the show.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to say uh big thank you for coming on the show.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's anything at all you want to kind of do a shout out for, anyone that you want to um yeah, give some props to, or anyone that you want us to kind of check out, or anything you want us to check out, um, go for it now.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: All yours.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you want to follow me, I am at Roxanne Codes on Twitter.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Roxy Rodriguez Becker, pretty much everywhere else.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much again for joining it, joining us.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we'll we'll have you back on the show, I'm sure, whether it be on on here or on coffee with developers.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: But uh thank you again.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we'll see you next Wednesday for anyone that's uh watching this.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: I believe next week we've got Dennis Ivey.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: So uh fun.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Beat your scores.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see if I can ruin it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, he will totally beat me.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: I hope he doesn't, but he will.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's a clever clogs and he knows his stuff.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's very competitive.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that I'm gonna have to make sure they're really difficult ones for him.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's it.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's us done.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will see you again next week, next Wednesday.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks again, Roxy.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you on LinkedIn and everywhere else.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, see you next Wednesday.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, thank you.