Latest / Hiking without a stitch / EP. 22 - Flipping The Script with Northman and Jon

Transcript

EP. 22 - Flipping The Script with Northman and Jon · Hiking without a stitch

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who first told you to cover up?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: What if the truth is being fair in nature isn't changeful at all?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Healing, it reconnects you to your body and to the natural world.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Get naked, be free, and be kind.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll share my journey into naturism, stories from the trail, and conversations with others who have found freedom in the open air.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going guys?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hiking Without a Stitch.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John your host, and today's episode is going to be a little bit different.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Northman is joining me again, and you may remember him from episode 17, but this time we're flipping the script and he's going to be interviewing me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Northman for coming back on the podcast and taking the time to have this conversation with me.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was great catching up and talking about my journey and the current state of naturism.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: So with that being said, let's get into it.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody, let's get started and welcome to the Hiking Without a Stitch podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you may have already noticed that this is not John's voice.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my name is Northman, and John interviewed me, I think, about two months ago, one month or two months ago, and really good chat about nudism and masculinity and brotherhood.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: And after that podcast, I just thought, what a great opportunity to learn more about John as well.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: John's done so much work in the natures community, promoting naturism, promoting nudism.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and especially from my point of view, especially promoting that for men, just shamelessness with the nudity.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really wanted to know John's backstory and hear more about him.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I ran this interview idea by him where we turn the tables where he's the interviewee and I'm the interviewer.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um he agreed.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And here we are.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing today, John?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing I'm doing awesome.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've been looking forward to this uh conversation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me too.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, before we get started, I just wanted to say thanks so much for all your work.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think you've been doing this for about a year now, is it?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: A bit more than you were.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're coming up on it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I scrolled back in your Instagram, and I think the first post was April 2025 or something like that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that sounds about right.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so really awesome that you're still going strong with the podcasts and videos, and you seem to have a new person on your show almost every week.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, awesome, and thank you very much for that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, we're gonna run John through some questions.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have kind of three different segments here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, biographical questions, current event questions, and then a couple preference questions, which is almost like an would you rather kind of game.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So as Julie Andrews says, let's go back to the beginning, a very good place to start.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't say that about nudism, but I'm sure she would.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, John, how long have you been a naturist for?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And what kind of what kind of kick started this?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: What was the what was the beginning?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have been a naturist for I don't know, about four years now.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it really started at kind of like a threat of curiosity after experiencing my own experience at a local uh nude beach here in Tucson, Tank Verde Falls, the upper trail.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was really put back by how natural everything seemed when I was there.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: No one was performative, there wasn't anything expected, and it kind of made me question everything that I, you know, n was brought up about n our our nude body body and how how we kind of view it, you know what I mean?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: You said that was at a nude beach, eh?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what kind what kind of encouraged you to go to that beach?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Was it what led to that?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we had just moved to Tucson from Washington State, and I was just kind of feeling in a funk, and I needed to get out and just get into nature and clear my head.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I had pulled up like Google and all trails and just kind of said cool hiking trails near me.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then what came up was Tank Veriday Falls Trail, and I'd read that there was like a nude beach nearby there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay, well, we're not too far off.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I told Olivia, I'm hopping in the car, gonna go hiking, and I went and checked it out, and I didn't like strip that time.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I walked up to like the point where you could see the people on the beach and the signage, you know, clothing optional, nude nude hikers ahead, and I was like, okay, that's interesting.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I went home, researched, came back the next weekend and stripped off myself, and just experiencing people doing normal everyday things, hanging out on the beach, just enjoying nature.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really made me question the stories that we all get told about our bodies.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what started me on that journey.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I just, you know, dove headfirst into basically any naturist or nudist content that I could find, whether that was blogs or podcasts or like uh videos of interviews.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what started that it all for me.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that just built um from there.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, awesome.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so that first time actually stripping at the nude beach, was it nerve-wracking or was it kind of instant instant liberty for you?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was nerve-wracking because I didn't really I was still at the point where I didn't know if I was doing something illegal.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, everyone else is nude down here, so obviously it must be, you know, semi-okay.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of stripped off and sheepishly like walked along the outer edge of the beach, like, and I don't and I didn't know the the etiquette.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, am I gonna come down here and people are gonna be like, oh, this guy's uh, you know, not a regular, or like, what are you doing down here?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of just made my way through the people, said hello.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to a guy with uh his dogs, he always walks his dogs there.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he was walk-hiking through, and then I just went above the beach and sat and kind of had my own little moment in this pool um with my shorts pretty close by.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: In case I needed to grab them and jump in them.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was really freeing just doing that and sitting there, and I was like, okay, this is probably the most calm that I've felt in a long time just doing this.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's kind of funny that you mentioned that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's the experience of a lot of people that you don't really know what the etiquette is at those places because you just don't hear about them anywhere before you actually start visiting them.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, as nudism has developed for you or naturism has developed for you over the years, what does it kind of mean to you at that overarching level?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: What does it what does it do for you?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Come on what does it do for me?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: It it provides me a an opportunity to just be myself and be really free and open and kind of let my guard down.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I use it a lot like therapy.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm feeling in a funk, I will specifically go and find a canyon and strip off and you know be naked out in nature whenever I can, just because it really opens up my mind.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it provides me the space to just have those moments and and get in touch with myself and my like internal dialogue going, going that's always, you know, going.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So then your first experience at the Nude Beach was four years ago, like you said.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we fast forward four years, you now, you know, live naked full-time and have a podcast about nudity and videos and an Instagram and everything.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what kind of made you make that jump into going more public with your naturism and especially in an online context?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So what made me like kind of open up more about it is I wanted to just show that I was like a normal person doing it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wanted to be more public about it because I was tired of separating myself into like boxes, like, oh, with my family I'm gonna be this and they don't need to know this, or online I can be this, and but I can't share this.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I just wanted to be completely open and just share what I was doing and why I was doing it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really why I wanted to be more open.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that actually leads really well into another question that I had, which was how you navigate your naturism in your day-to-day with your friends and family who aren't naturists themselves.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it something that you share with them or do you kind of keep those parts separate?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I do respectfully.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they're not comfortable with seeing me or being around me naked, then like I don't I'm not naked around them at all.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, I do a lot more outings and stuff alone because of that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I prefer to be naked.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So like some people that might normally come hang out with me, they just kind of fall off and don't don't come out with me anymore.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, whether that's hiking or going to like the nude beach or the river, I'm I'm probably planning stuff to be be clothing optional.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's there's a group of people that kind of separated in my life that we're still friends, but they just don't come around.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's other people like my brother that I can just be well, I'm out here sunning, so if you want to come and hang out, I'm gonna be naked.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, okay.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, like there are people in my life that are okay with it, and then like my coworkers are okay with it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: They like talking about it, they're very curious, they like asking questions about it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's pretty cool to see how curious, non-natruist and non-nudist people are just around me in everyday life.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's um that's really surprising as well to hear that you've had friendships that have maybe not separated but faded away because of the nudism.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: It really shows you how much stigma there is attached to that still, eh?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, exactly.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just and I don't even blame them because it's the way that we're all brought up.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're from a very young age taught that nudity is bad and it shouldn't be shared and it shouldn't be looked at.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, so I I totally understand where that that stigma comes from, but like thankfully, I feel like we're seeing kind of a shift in the understanding of of non-sexual nudity right now.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I I personally think there's a little bit of an uptick.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice, 100%.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you actually connect with other naturists?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you find people that will go out with you and get naked or respect your lifestyle?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what have been some of your strategies so far?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, um honestly, just going on to Instagram really.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll I'll look at like if there's a specific beach or area that I know people like to frequent and be naked or do naked hiking, I will look at those.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It I think it's called geotagging.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's where you click on someone's picture and it'll show you like where they tagged the picture from, and you can see like all these people posting.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can like photos, you can kind of see what goes on there.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you start posting and tagging those places too, I've noticed that people will reach out to you and say, Hey, we go there too.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: We should like link up and go for a hike.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also, um, Reddit.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a couple nudist Reddit forums where you can find people trying to link up and go do not just hiking, but any any kind of activity you're thinking of.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Bowling, you know, get togethers, whatever, what whatever have you.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Have you found that a lot of people have reached out by listening to your podcast as well and through that content?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: People do reach out like, hey man, it's really cool too, because I have people reach out and say, hey, your podcast really, you know, helped my confidence or gave me, you know, what I needed to go and try this on my own, or gave me the information to feel safe doing it, which I think is really cool.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like conversations like we're having right now and your episode, you have a lot of people liking your episode, by the way.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: They really like it.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I've actually in the last couple days, like a handful of people have reached out and been like, hey, I really like that that episode.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, sweet.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's good to hear.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think the um the episode you did right after was with what was his name, I think.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of like a similar themed episode.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I loved listening to that one as well.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, I connected with him on Instagram too, and that's been really cool.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah, on that line as well, what has been kind of like your favorite part about doing these podcasts?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's so much content and it's so cool to hear everybody's stories.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's been your favorite part?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite part is really getting to know people's backgrounds and seeing their progress and trajectory in their journey.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love I love the stories where it's like I didn't feel comfortable or I didn't feel confident, and then I found this thing that I can go do that unlocks something in me that's just so beautiful.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I really like being able to share people's stories and you know get into why they did it and the lessons that they've learned.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And have there been any podcasts that you've done where you've thought, wow, that's really changed my perspective on something, or that podcast really has stood out and kind of changed my feelings about naturism or anything like that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Have there been any standouts like that?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Chad's episode talking about um his his journey with like Christ and Christianity and naturism, that one kind of changed my perspective on naturism because before that I wouldn't say that I thought that Christianity and naturism went together just because my background I was brought up in the Christian church, non-denominational, but the the church that I went to was very focused on spiritual purity and like I remember at summer camp, they wouldn't let the boys take their shirts off because it would it could possibly tempt the girls.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So stuff like that.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um lots of rules, and so I had this like kind of negative mindset about religion, and I didn't see where the overlap was, and his episode really kind of changed that for me, and I thought it was beautiful that that's that's something that he was able to have in his life, and and that it was a positive in his life.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was cool.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: That part really stood out for me as well, because it's kind of like the perspective that we're, you know, we're created naked and that there's nothing wrong with that, and that within Christianity, Adam and Eve were walking around naked for the first however long as well.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's interesting, and I think it just relates to nudism in general that we have all these preconceptions and just these ideas in our head that have just been there since childhood that we haven't questioned.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you actually do question them, you realize, you know, there's actually nothing wrong with it.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, excellent.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what has been your fondest naked memory to date?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: So a naked experience, maybe a hike, whatever the case may be.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: What's been some of the fondest or the fondest?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have I actually have two stories.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: The first one was taking my wife hiking out on public land, and it was her first time she had ever hiked.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I took her out on this canyon spot out in the middle of nowhere, and we hiked up the canyon and watched the sunrise come up, and it was just really a beautiful moment because she trusted me enough to come out there and be vulnerable, and we got to share this awesome experience watching the sun come up, and it was just cool to see her relax into it and just enjoy herself out in nature.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was the first experience that I would say that's probably my fondest.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's a canyon not too far off from here where you have to walk down this gnarly um side hill, and you drop down into the bottom, and there's water.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like the Garden of Eden in the desert.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there's an old um fireplace, river rock fireplace that was there from uh an original homestead, you know, back in the day.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just really it was really cool coming across that and finding it down there.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just kind of walking in the you know, the trails of someone that once was.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that was in Arizona as well, eh?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those were in Arizona.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've never actually been to Arizona.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've come pretty close in in travels to the USA before.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that I see a lot on Instagram is that it's very exposed a lot of the nature in Arizona, like these deserts, like you don't have a lot of places to hide.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're actually hiking naked, how do you avoid people?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do encounter someone, what do you do?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Have there been any times when you have encountered somebody?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there have been a couple different times.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um geez, I don't know if you can hear that, but we're having a monsoon go over right now, and it's like raining really hard.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of ASMR actually, but yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I have had people or come across people before.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if I'm at a place like Tank Veraday Falls, that's pretty easy because the way the trail zigzags along the hillside, you can kind of see what's coming at you, and you can kind of see what's coming up behind you.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So all it takes is looking around to kind of see what's going on.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you see someone coming, I usually I have my sarong and I just cover up and and say, Hey, how's it going?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: and walk by.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in places where nudity is not generally practiced, say like out on public land in the middle of nowhere, um, I have had a scenario where I was hiking and I looked up and there was two deer hunters up on a ridge, and they had their like spotting scopes and uh binoculars, and so in that instance, I didn't act like I was doing something wrong.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just turned back around and walked down the trail into the tree line so I couldn't be seen and continued my hike that way.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's really it's really about the way that we present ourselves.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when when we're out, if I'm if my energy is saying like, oh, I'm I'm I'm scared, I'm hiding in the bushes and trying to throw my shorts on, that makes it look a lot weirder than if you just wave and you're like, hey, good day for a hike.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're weirded out, you can put your you know shorts on, but you really carry that energy into whatever situation you're going into.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good way to look at it.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it makes such a difference as well, like in that scenario, if it's just other guys, like it's nothing that they haven't seen.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think just having that um, you know, respect about it, but also realizing that it's not it's not a huge deal.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's just a naked body.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, it goes a long way, doesn't it?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'd say that changes too in one sense.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you are out hiking and say there's a woman, or or like I've I've had a mom and her daughter come down the down the trail and kind of surprise me, and she was a little upset, but after I explained what I was doing and that I'm not I'm not out here doing anything like wrong or weird, she was way more like you could just visibly see she calmed down and was like, okay, so there's not a weirdo that's going to assault us or like whatever.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because she just came around the corner and it's like that people don't know.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I try and give people the benefit of the doubt and just put good energy out.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it usually uh I find that people are a lot more open to it than we really think.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So your journey so far has been you started with nude beaches, and I think you've told me in the past that you live naked at home pretty much.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you have all this content online as well.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody's just starting out with a nudist or nature's lifestyle or just curious, what would you kind of recommend them to start out with?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Would you recommend a naked hike?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Would you recommend a skinny dip?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: How would you ease them into the the lifestyle?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think a skinny dip is probably the lowest commitment, easiest to do, and the water provides kind of a barrier.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're naked.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't feel naked, you can kind of be down in the water.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I find that's a really good introduction to nudity.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you're really uncomfortable with being naked, uh do it at home.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: After your shower, stay undressed for a little bit.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it'll take some time to get used to too.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you've grown up not liking your body or being really self-conscious, that's not gonna go away in you know the snap of a finger.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have to learn how to love yourself and and really see that you you are enough and that the body you have is perfect just the way it is.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot like aspects of it, but you can work we're losing power.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um can you still hear me?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh can you hear me, John?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just lost you.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was wild.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Boom.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh shoot.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I haven't experienced a storm like that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I we don't get monsoons at where I'm from in Canada, but yeah, I've totally forgot about the North American thunderstorms this time of year.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's just yeah, the cover just goes out on the done.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So crazy.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So what tips do you have for someone who is wanting to live a naturist lifestyle, but just starting out, maybe they're curious.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: What tips do you have?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh really starting out like with small steps, getting comfortable being naked and um getting used to your body.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: For a lot of people, just being naked around the house feels really extreme.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then expanding your experiences and your comfort zone, you know, might take a little bit of time.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a few times to even go out and and be naked, you know, out in the desert by myself.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, just because I was worried about being in trouble or if I was doing it correctly or not.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, you have to get used to where your comfort zone was and then the expansion of that to okay, I can do this, I can try new things, and and going from there.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Really really feeling what it feels like in the moment, the experience that you're having, instead of what you look like in the moment, if that makes sense.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a real internal thing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fantastic.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what's left on the naked bucket list for you?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that you've wanted to try naked that you haven't done yet that you want to do in the future?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go bird hunting naked.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone in a sarong before.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've hunted quail with my dog uh in a sarong, and I would love to go naked sometime.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know the legalities of hunting and nudity.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: That would some be something that it's probably I'd have to go do on like a private ranch or private property to do it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh the other thing that I would like to do is there's an old cabin up in the middle of the mountains here.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just north of me, I guess.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not northern Arizona, but north of me.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That it's a real historic cabin.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the last places of a Wild West shootout.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's called the Powers Cabin, and it's probably a 25-mile hike to get out there.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would love to do that because at a certain point on that trail, you're in the wilderness area where there's no roads, there's only one or two trails to go in to those roadless areas, and you're really on your own.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you have vast fields, streams, all these different valleys that you kind of weave your way through, and then you would get to the cabin and camp there for a couple days and then make your way back down.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: But most of that all could be done naked.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of what I'm hypothesizing and planning.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So someday I plan to do that.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: You've done that one clothed before, or I have not done that one clothed, so this would be I've only read like um trip reports and and other stuff from people that have done it before.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of just in the planning stages now, but at some point I would love to uh backpack up there.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's so cool.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just thinking as I was asking that question as well.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think I might have actually asked you this in a in a message recently.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: But as nudists, when we go hiking or naturous, um, we have so much to plan around it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, wearing clothing that's easily removable, take onable and take offable, put onable and take offable.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um have you ever had the experience where you've been able to leave everything behind, like maybe in your car or something like that, and go for a hike totally naked carrying nothing?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Has that ever been a thing?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have done that just a couple times, mainly because I don't want to be caught off guard.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the times I was caught off guard, and there's a group of like six college dudes that kind of walked up behind me at this trail, and I was just like, Well, I I can't I can't hide like I did the like I leaned on a rock, I'm like, nope, that looks weird.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'll just keep I'll just keep walking, you know.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I said hi, and like the last dude in the the line turned around and took a picture of my you know bare ass as I was walking away, and they were all laughing and kept walking.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the other time was at a canyon where I knew, like without a shadow of a doubt, I was the only one back in this area.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just tucked my uh little pack and backpack underneath a bush and continued on up this valley for a ways, and it was really I love that because there's nothing weighing you down.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have shoulder straps on, you don't have a fanny pack around your waist, it's just you and the air and whatever's going on.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I really enjoy that.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a magical feeling, isn't it?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's really unfortunate that it's quite hard to kind of set up those scenarios or set up those situations, but when it does happen, it's yeah, it's a great feeling.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: So those are kind of all of my biographical questions, and I'll move into the next section, which I titled Current Events.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So this is essentially things that have happened recently or semi-recently out there in the world with regards to nudity.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I just thought we could discuss them and hear your opinion on them.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So some of them we've actually already touched on briefly, but this first one, and I didn't actually write down my sources for this, but it's been reported that around 11% of Americans engage with nudism in some regard.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in your opinion, do you feel that Americans are secretly more open to nudism than meets the eye?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I personally do.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I know a lot of people say that like nudism and naturism's like dying out, or you know, we're losing numbers.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like maybe people just aren't going to clubs as much as they used to or traditionally have, um, for a number of reasons, I guess.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Money, a lot of the people in their 30s, you know, kids, houses, you know, whatever, whatever's going on, uh, all the responsibilities.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot more people are participating in non-sexual nude activity in other ways like hot springs, naked hikes, nude beaches, and then you know, sometimes going to resorts to be naked, and it's not just nudist or naturist people, I think it's people in general, at least in our generation and below us, are more open-minded about it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I talk to people, um, they generally seem pretty open to the idea about going to like a beach.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Oh yeah, I think, you know, if it lines up with my schedule, I would go to, you know, a nude beach with you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now we don't have days off together, but at some point, at some point that'll line out and we'll get to go experience that.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just uh I get the vibe that it's more accepted and and people participate more than they I just don't think they're talking about it, you know what I mean?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've wondered that about um your profession as well, like as a pool tech, if that opportunity to like skinny dip in pools with colleagues ever comes up, if that's a thing.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine we've we've joked about it, but at at the place that I work, um it's not a clothing optional place, so yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: We've we all have to to stay clothed and stuff, but yeah, that would be awesome if uh if we could.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would love a pool party.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: So on that as well, do you notice a difference between men and women in their engagement with nudism or even people from different states in the US?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice differences there with different kind of different people?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I notice like um I think women experience non-sexual nudity in the same ways, but I think they do it in ways that are less visible to like the general public.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, I think a lot more women skinny dip in their like at-home pools or hot tubs.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or I think a lot of women lay out in the sun and sunbathe naked in their backyards, or even go topless on hikes.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think people are posting about it and talking about it, and I don't think they're really clinging on to well, I'm a naturist.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're just people that are open to it and and enjoy being naked.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I wouldn't cons I wouldn't say they consider themselves nudists or anything, but they're okay with like casual nudity.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think men find it easier to be open about it and like post about it and post what they're doing.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think women um for safety and you know, because y we still have that stigma around nudity.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think people are openly sharing about it as much as you know, you you and I.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I've thought about that too, just in terms of the stigma of even with Instagram nudism, that women have so much more that they need to kind of censor, not rightfully so, but I think as guys, you know, you just have to censor one part of your body to dodge the censors on Instagram, whereas women, unfortunately, um, Instagram puts a lot more pressure on them to censor everything, which would kind of be a bit of a dissuading factor from wanting to engage with that sort of thing, I think.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what's so that's what's so wild is uh like um like you and me were we're recording, you can see my nipples, I can see your shoulders and upper half.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: When you're recording with a woman and her chest is showing, it's like, well, you gotta you gotta put a bar here and you're or you have to crop the frames.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's such a pain in the ass, it would be so much easier if the nipples were just treated generally the same.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: So then on to another kind of semi-current event, and I can't remember the year for this one.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was actually not super recent.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think this was 2023 or 2024.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: But in Colombia, laws that penalized public nudity with steep fines were reformed, and now nudity is legal except in cases where there is harassment.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you agree with this kind of law around nudism where we penalize the harassment part, but in general, public nudity is legal?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's that's where like the US should start heading, is like common sense.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Say if you're out in a roadless area or you're out in the middle of nowhere or at a lake where no one's around, and you do strip off and go skinny dipping or hike naked, it should be legal to do that and not not get um penalized for just sheer nudity.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm hoping at some point we do see the laws shift that there's more opportunities to do nude recreation, you know, openly.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and not having to tow the line, and uh, I think more common sense nudely laws like that would be really helpful.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um some reports claim that naturism is experiencing a resurgence amongst more recent generations.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you believe this to be true and do you predict that this will continue?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm probably like really optimistic.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I I uh I think that we are seeing a a resurgence and more people like wanting to be open about their journey and have conversations out in the open about how this has helped change, you know, their lives and the landscape and how this, you know, community is viewed by the outside world.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we are are really seeing that shift in the way people view nudity, and I think you know what we're doing now is really helping that shift of showing people around us that we're just us doing normal things.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I showed a group of friends, I'll post this in the link to the show notes so everyone can watch it, but I uh I showed a group of friends a granola commercial done by bare-naked granola, and it's all about nude the the commercial is about nude hiking.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like a play-on word, so they're out naked hiking and they're eating bare-naked granola.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: My group of friends said it was really cool that the the way that the commercial was shot because it was actual hikers, and it was done in kind of a cheeky, funny way, but not making fun of anyone in the video.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: It really normalized being out on public land and being naked for the health benefits, and it was done in a funny, lighthearted way.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so their takeaway was like they would consider nudism way more normal after watching that that uh that clip, and if there was more commercials and stuff like that kind of out in the open, they're like, Yeah, I I I don't see nudity as such a threat or as weird as I originally did after getting more knowledge and engagement in it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I kind of think that we are seeing the the next generation go, oh, there there's benefits, and I think too, people want to be connected.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think more people are looking for real in-person connections where they can come together and have a tribe and get together.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that your connections as a naturist now or as a nudist are in some ways more authentic um now that they're taking place in those contexts of naturism?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's hard to hide when there's nothing to hide behind.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's I have no ulterior motives.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm just me.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: What you see is what you get.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's helped me show up in a way more authentic, just real way.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like take it or leave it, this is who I am, this is what I look like, like my body parts, I can't change them.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we're just gonna enjoy it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, awesome.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been really um pleased to see as well online with the Instagram nuda uh nudism that I I think I very, very seldom get any negative reactions from people, especially from our generation.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Even if they're not nudists, everyone, even if they don't understand it, everyone is quite accepting and respectful of it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think yeah, I think the only negative reaction I can think of where somebody was like, Why are you posting yourself naked?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's weird.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think that was like probably about seven years ago now, and I've been posting pretty consistently since then.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's good to see.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's good to see that mind uh mindsets are shifting.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just uh this you'll think this is funny.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just sent my aunt my uh podcast link and like hey, you should check this out.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I started this and you know, you I think you'd think it's cool, and she hasn't texted me back yet.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: So Oh no, when was that?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I texted her this morning, so we will we we will we'll give her a day.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Does she oh sorry?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: She she's not she's not nudist or anything.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's just open-minded, and I I thought that she would like to know.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: She she likes to know what's going on in in our lives and stuff, so I was like, you know what?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna shoot it over to her, see what she says.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just waiting for the reply.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh boy.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: So she didn't know that you were a or are a naturist at all?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, okay.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: So was that was that a hard decision sending that message?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I went back and forth on telling her, and this individual's been a big part of my life growing up, and I wanted to I wanted to share it with her because she has been a part of my life and kind of who I've become and really supported me on all my like crazy ideas and crazy adventures.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know what?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's been such a big part.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to tell her because I think she'd think it was cool.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm genuinely curious just to see what her uh reaction to it is.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, it could go either way.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh well, that'll keep me updated.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I d I definitely will.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, nice.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I will move on to the final section, the final set of questions.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: So these are kind of like would you rather questions?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you two options.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the time they're just fun little things, and you can choose between one or the other.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I've tried to incorporate some less serious ones in there and then some ones that are not serious, um, but maybe a little bit more opinionated, I guess.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: So the first one is in an ideal world, shoes or no shoes when naked or hiking naked or even just in any context?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am I am like shoeless as much as possible.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, almost the only time that I'm wearing shoes is when I'm at work, or if I'm on like a trail.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I brought this actually because I thought we were gonna talk about this, but I brought a uh you can't really see it.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, the yeah, a mesquite thorn.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I have gotten one of these like stuck in the bottom of my foot, and I had to have my mom and stepdad hold me down and you know work it out.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's trails here that I can I can hike barefooted, which is awesome in some of the washes where it's sandy, but like in some of these areas with the cactus, it is just it's so gnarly.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to wear boots.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: But ideally, I would be a barefoot person.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they're the same plant or not, but we have something similar here called um cow something.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the name exactly, but it's just like the most offensive feeling ever, because you'll think that you're walking on just normal earth and then all of a sudden you'll get like a sword impaled into your foot.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have we have goat head here too.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little little spiky ball with two large spikes.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking at it, it looks like a goat, and those always you know get stuck in the bottom of my foot too.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I'm really curious to know like why why a plant like that even exists, like just there to torment human beings.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, and barefoot hikers.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um all right, next one.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: So walking around the house naked or hiking naked?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can I choose can I choose both?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm always naked at the house, anyways, but like hiking naked really.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I could just hike naked any trail I wanted, that would be like so awesome.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be amazing.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um skinny dipping in pools or skinny dipping in lakes?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go with the lakes.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's swimming in a like a mountain lake is amazing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: That it's such a cool experience.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Have you done much skinny dipping in pools before?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have never well, that's not true.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I skinny dipped in a hot tub, but that doesn't really count as a pool.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've never I've never skinny dipped in a pool.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, getting naked in the mountains or in the forest?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go with mountains.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and why mountains?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's something super cool about going hiking up the top of a peak and then looking down and just seeing like the valley below you.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, you're just up there and free, it's amazing.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Social nudity in large groups or in a smaller group.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: The the only large group that I have experience with was a 5k that I uh naked 5k I did at Shangri-La Ranch, and that was super fun.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um other than that, it's just been like handsfuls of people at like the nude beach.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna go with I really liked the big group.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say big group.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet, large group of people.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's um it's one thing that I think they do in the US that I really wish they did elsewhere.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: The uh naked five Ks, those look so fun.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I imagine.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that was in Arizona or Yeah, the the it was at Shangri Law Ranch, which is in New River, Arizona, just north of Phoenix.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're their 5K is actually coming up again in like two months in October, I think.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh nice.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna do it again?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: My wife and I are gonna go up there again.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: So do they like is it the kind of thing where you can they have like a place for all your items like your backpack and everything, and you can just run naked carrying nothing or oh yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's last year we went and there's like campsites you can camp at.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a guy right next to us who just rolled his sleeping pad out on the dirt and he was just sleeping on the dirt.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Laying there naked.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, it's so cold.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're in our like little pop-up camper.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's so cold out there.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: How's he how's he okay?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so we we stayed overnight, really cool place.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's people that live there like all year long, which would be I think would be really cool.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then they had like the meeting spot for everyone.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the morning of the 5K, you know, people are driving in, and and it's I saw that thought it was interesting because not just nudists come to the 5Ks, you can use these smaller 5Ks as um what do they call them?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Qualifiers.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like there's there's actual, I shouldn't say actual, we're all runners, but you know what I mean.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the textile runners will come and and run the the nudest runs, and it's cool because you'll have a mix of people, you know, these handfuls are naked, these handfuls are clothed, and everyone's high-fiving and getting along and like nothing nothing out of the ordinary.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was amazing to be a part of and kind of see.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those kinds of spaces where they mix textile people and then nudist people.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: I always find those so cool because it just really emphasizes that it's just different ways of living, eh?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's I think too, like that would be one way like resorts get new people to come to their resorts, is do like a open to the public day.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like you come on in, clothing optional, hang out, because I think there's a lot of people, at least at the the 5k, there was a lot of people our age.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: That showed up in like little groups.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is this is cool.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: They everyone knows about this.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, the only reason I knew about it is because I Googled and kind of sought it out.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I wouldn't have known that the event was even going on.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, yeah, I hear this a lot from from people in general.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like often people just need an invitation to kind of get naked.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh people want to do it, they just don't know how to.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, naked in the rain or naked in a heat wave?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go, I hate being cold.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with heat wave.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm used to the heat now, so uh I'll just keep at it.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been naked in the rain before?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have I was uh actually hiking last month in some national forest and like a small rainstorm moved over me while I was walking through um this stand of acorn trees.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so you probably saw that picture online, uh that one with the woods and all the leaves on the ground.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um that walking through there, it started to rain shortly after that picture.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's so cool.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it's it's so interesting here because it'll be hot and humid, and then the temperature will just drop, and you'll get like cold, cool rain and a cool breeze.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's really bizarre.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, so there's wind along with that rain often where you're from.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that does change things, doesn't it?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I've done like um tropical rainstorms before, and it's so fun just being naked and free in the rain.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like nature's shower, but yeah, if there's wind chill.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wind chill's a different thing, isn't it?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was um there's somebody on your podcast again that was talking about a naked hike.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in the Yeah, and that that very much resonated because it's it's really nice to feel like, you know, as much water can hit you and it's not gonna wet your clothes or anything like that.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're just totally free.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, nice.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and final question: a naked hike alone or a nude gaming night with friends?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done a nude gaming night.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a naked hike alone always is the vibe.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always good.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your photos of your hikes naked uh when you are alone, they just look so therapeutic and so um is meditative a word, I think.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: But they look like meditation and that just looks so cool to me all the time.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, 100%.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank thank you.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sweet.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, those are all of my questions.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, John, thanks so much for having me again.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's been awesome chatting with you and hope to do more stuff with with you in the future with the podcast and everything.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um love talking about this and love being part of how you promote it to everybody.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you very much for having me again.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you and I will be linking up again a lot more because I like these conversations and just talking about the overall the questions about just the overall um what we think about naturism and where it's going, because it's super cool that we both get to be part of steering that ship and like adding value to the the the broader community.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I look forward to joining you on a naked hike one day when I make it back to the US, which will hopefully be before too too long.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that'll be awesome.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, someday I will come over there.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you very much, John.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: You too.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: Bye bye.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, guys, that's gonna do it for today.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me on another episode, and a big thank you to Northman for coming back to the show and this time, you know, playing the host today.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was really cool.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love sitting down and hearing his perspective and also sharing my perspective, you know, about my own journey and nude hiking and kind of where I see things going.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoyed hearing a different side of the story today.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Also, if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you listen to the podcast and share it with someone who might be curious about naturism or nude hiking.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, get naked, be free, and be kind.