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EV Fires: a Storm in a Teacup · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  John Summers is the motoring historian.
• 0:02
  He was a company car thrashing technology sales rep that turned into
• 0:06
  a fairly inept sports bike rider.
• 0:08
  Hailing from California, he collects cars and bikes built with plenty of
• 0:12
  cheap and fast and not much reliable.
• 0:15
  On his show, he gets together with various co-hosts to talk about new
• 0:18
  and old cars, driving, motorbikes, motor racing, and motoring travel
• 0:35
  Good day, good morning, good afternoon.
• 0:37
  It is John Summers, the motoring historian Today, electric vehicle fires, or more
• 0:44
  specifically, is there anything in what these conspiracy theorist types say
• 0:49
  about, "Oh, EVs, they all catch fire. Oh." 'Cause, you know, instinctively, right,
• 0:55
  yeah, a computer gets hot, but on the face of it, normal cars have, like, gasoline,
• 1:01
  and the gasoline runs in little rubber hoses right by the hot exhaust, right?
• 1:06
  That's what cars were like years ago.
• 1:08
  It just feels like instinctively a Chevy Chevelle is more likely to
• 1:12
  burst into flames rather than a Tesla.
• 1:14
  That- that's just how I feel about it.
• 1:16
  But notwithstanding the fact that obviously, uh, the Tesla can get in
• 1:20
  the sea, and I love a V8 Chevelle, even if it is gonna catch on fire
• 1:24
  and burn it and myself to a crisp.
• 1:26
  But that's not why you're tuned in, is it?
• 1:28
  You're tuned in really for me to actually tell you whether or not this,
• 1:32
  this EV fire thing is, is actually, you know, real or, or just some BS.
• 1:37
  So, so let's drill into that, and let's drill into that via
• 1:41
  a presentation that I had.
• 1:42
  It's another one of these Society of Automotive Engineer things
• 1:46
  that took place at Stanford.
• 1:48
  This is a couple of ways.
• 1:48
  It's not at Stanford, it's in Palo Alto at, uh, the Nordic
• 1:52
  Innovation House or something.
• 1:54
  I think that's the name of the venue.
• 1:55
  But anyway, the fellow who I saw present was called Dr. Adeed Kamal,
• 2:00
  and, uh, he's a professor of thermal science at a firm called Exponent.
• 2:06
  Now, it's worth going to their website and looking at what they do because
• 2:10
  basically, you know, when that Boeing 747 or 737, when they kept on trying
• 2:16
  to, you know, fly the plane at the ground and crash, Exponent were the
• 2:20
  people who Boeing came to to be like, "Shit, the plane won't work properly.
• 2:24
  Help us." You know, they are these kind of process men, material engineers,
• 2:30
  but ultra-clever Stanford ones.
• 2:36
  Jeff Buys Cars, the YouTuber, he does all these things about EV La La Land
• 2:42
  and, and how terrible that they are.
• 2:44
  And so partly I went to this session so that I could reach out to him and say,
• 2:49
  "You know, these are the facts on EV fires." It took the presenter there…
• 2:54
  I c- I can't read his name properly.
• 2:56
  I wrote it down, like Adeed or Aveed or something like that.
• 2:59
  I'm sorry, sir. You were very well informed and a, and a terrific presenter,
• 3:04
  and I'm sorry I didn't write your name down properly, but not to worry.
• 3:07
  Kamal was the, the second name.
• 3:08
  I'll look him up on the website and connect him and all of that, so.
• 3:11
  Uh, the, the point is that he spent a long time not really answering what
• 3:16
  would've been, you know, Jeff Buys Cars conspiracy theorist YouTuber.
• 3:21
  So, you know, so Jeff had piqued my interest, right?
• 3:23
  Jeff had made me think, "Oh, you know, maybe there is something in this, this EV
• 3:28
  fires thing. I'll see what the Stanford perspective was." And I reached out to
• 3:33
  Jeff to be like, "You know, I'm going to this thing. Are you interested in what I
• 3:39
  learn?" And I didn't hear back from him.
• 3:41
  Obviously, you know, he's a YouTuber with a million subscribers, right?
• 3:44
  You know what I mean?
• 3:45
  He's probably got better things to be doing than responding to me.
• 3:47
  I'm not bothered by that, right?
• 3:48
  But then just a couple of weeks later, he did another EV fires thing being
• 3:53
  like, "Oh, doom and gloom. These EV cars will be the death of us."
• 3:58
  And I'm like, "No, dude, I gave you the chance to have the proper
• 4:01
  information, and you just rejected it." So bit of a butthole.
• 4:05
  He, he, he… You know, anyway, whatever.
• 4:07
  So, so Jeff, thanks for piquing me, but, uh, dude, you're a bit of an idiot
• 4:12
  because the raw stats, it, it took, um, this Kemel fellow a while to get
• 4:17
  there, but the raw stats, you can hear me leafing through my notes, can't you,
• 4:20
  to the end of the presentation here.
• 4:22
  But, but look, the number of vehicle fires since 1980 has decreased by half.
• 4:28
  Consistently, the study that he had showed, you know, from like
• 4:33
  insurance data, showed that vehicle fires almost always occur in
• 4:39
  vehicles that are 10 to 20 years old.
• 4:42
  So it's that stravel where the fuel lines have got old and have started to crack.
• 4:46
  It does get on the exhaust.
• 4:47
  Those cars do catch fire.
• 4:49
  They always did.
• 4:50
  It seems like EVs are five times or 10 times less likely to actually catch fire.
• 4:58
  But there are circumstances where they do, and the way in which they do is
• 5:03
  different from the way that gas cars do.
• 5:06
  And what do I mean by that?
• 5:07
  I mean, you know, they'll wreck.
• 5:09
  You'll get it on the back of the tow truck.
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  The thing'll catch fire afterwards.
• 5:12
  You'll get it in the tow yard.
• 5:14
  It won't have moved for six weeks.
• 5:15
  It'll still catch fire.
• 5:17
  Believe it or not, there are even stories of that happening in, in an LA tow yard.
• 5:21
  So that is fuel to the fire, forgive the pun, of folk like Jeff
• 5:28
  who are like, "Well, I'm afraid.
• 5:30
  I'll take my, you know, Hillman Hunter with its cracked gas line spraying
• 5:35
  gas right onto the hot manifold.
• 5:37
  Um, you know, I'll take my risk of that fire that I can understand.
• 5:41
  I'll take that over, you know, the EV fire that's all peculiar and sometimes
• 5:47
  it catches fire and sometimes it doesn't, and there's not any real flame, and when
• 5:50
  you put water on it, you know, it doesn't put the flame out," and all of that.
• 5:53
  And that's just a case, you know, the fire department needing to
• 5:56
  have the right fire to put it out.
• 5:58
  Or the other thing he said is a lot of them are like rollover accidents, or
• 6:02
  if the car's not rolled over the- but the battery's caught fire, you can't
• 6:06
  actually spray the fire retardant where the fire is 'cause the fire's on the
• 6:10
  battery that's in the floor of the car.
• 6:12
  So what are we saying here?
• 6:14
  We're saying that as society pivots to using more and more electric vehicles,
• 6:20
  the fire risk, whilst it's still there, is going to be significantly reduced.
• 6:30
  EV fires are different because with ICE cars, once you turn off
• 6:35
  the motor, there is no fire risk.
• 6:37
  The problem with EVs is there's still energy trapped in the battery.
• 6:44
  That energy has to go somewhere.
• 6:46
  You know, it can't just sit in the gas tank inert.
• 6:49
  It has to, to go somewhere, and that's where there's the fire risk, and that's
• 6:54
  why the fires can happen, you know, when the accident's over, when the
• 6:58
  car's on the back of the recovery truck or in the tow yard and, and even weeks
• 7:03
  later if the circumstances are right.
• 7:05
  And what I'm gonna talk about in the rest of this presentation is the
• 7:08
  stuff that he talked about as being, you know, what goes wrong inside
• 7:13
  the battery for fires to happen.
• 7:15
  So stranded energy causes the fires.
• 7:19
  Getting it all out, that's the Holy Grail because if you can suck it
• 7:23
  all out, there's no chance of fire.
• 7:25
  Coming back to the, uh, the top of my presentation, 15% of total fires
• 7:31
  are EVs, and by that he includes pure BEVs and hybrids as well.
• 7:41
  I don't know why I had that stat up there because I'm gonna jump around now and
• 7:45
  just tell you a little bit about Exponent.
• 7:47
  It's a firm of Stanford grads that started about 30 years ago.
• 7:51
  Hundreds of PhDs, that was what I, I wrote down here.
• 7:55
  So… And projects they were involved in were the Toyota unintended acceleration.
• 8:02
  They also talked about, this is something if you're in the Bay Area you'll remember
• 8:05
  it, but there was a gas explosion in San Bruno a couple of years ago, and
• 8:09
  they looked at what it was that, uh, caused that, and the Boeing Max flying
• 8:14
  at the ground, that was them that did the analysis and the fix on, on that.
• 8:19
  So that's big cheese shit, isn't it?
• 8:21
  Like, let's, uh, call a sl- spade a spade.
• 8:24
  Now, the next thing he did was he did a sort of, you know, how did we get here?
• 8:28
  Always amuses me when scientists do the history piece, right?
• 8:32
  Because as scientists, they always wanna be able to say, you know,
• 8:35
  "First there was the Cugnot steam chariot, then there was, you know,
• 8:39
  Carl Benz and his wife who patent…"
• 8:42
  You know, they, they wanna have this, you know, after one comes two, and
• 8:46
  after two comes three kind of story, and of course, history doesn't work
• 8:49
  like that, and we historians, we just love to change our mind about whether
• 8:53
  three really came before two, or whether three's really more than two, or
• 8:56
  whether three's actually more like one.
• 8:58
  We as, as historians really love having those kind of debates and, and
• 9:02
  scientists tend not to, to wanna do that.
• 9:05
  And as an automobile historian, you exist in this place where so many of the people
• 9:09
  writing auto history are engineers who need this A, B, C, D, E kind of path.
• 9:15
  And, and as a trained historian, you're actually unwilling to
• 9:19
  go down that kind of path.
• 9:21
  And, and this is why auto history does not exist in history departments as such.
• 9:27
  We, we exist under technology history, and the more interesting
• 9:32
  bits of automotive history, I think, almost fit in philosophy of history.
• 9:37
  But look, I don't wanna fall down… I have fallen down
• 9:39
  that rabbit hole, haven't I?
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  But the point is, right, that he positioned up, you know, the history of,
• 9:46
  you know, how did we get to where we were.
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  1859, the first lead-acid battery, Gaston Plante, apparently.
• 9:53
  1888, I think that says, first production EV.
• 9:57
  This was a chap called Thomas Parker in, in England.
• 10:01
  By… In 1900, 28% of vehicles were electric.
• 10:05
  Did we know that?
• 10:06
  Of course we car guys did.
• 10:08
  The Baker Electric and all of that and, uh, and you know, I certainly can never
• 10:13
  forget that, that French count whose name escapes me, but whose car held
• 10:18
  the land speed record for a bit, and he called it La Jamais Contente, The Never
• 10:22
  Happy, and he named it after his wife.
• 10:27
  So that 28% statistic of, you know, all vehicles, that's before
• 10:31
  the Model T, and it's before Rockefeller and oil consolidation.
• 10:35
  So, you know, really between those, those two things.
• 10:38
  I don't know, it'd be interesting to do the research into it properly, but
• 10:41
  my sense is between those two things, those are the things that really did for
• 10:45
  early electric cars and the need to…
• 10:47
  1916, the Woods Dual Power Hybrid.
• 10:51
  Oh, I've missed the 1902 Studebaker Electric that had a 40-mile range
• 10:56
  and had regenerative brakes.
• 10:58
  He made the point that, you know, all these batteries, all, all these EVs, it's
• 11:02
  all about lithium ion flow, and it's about making that flow rate work effectively,
• 11:10
  and it's about making sure that even though you have many, many battery
• 11:16
  cells, you don't have a failure rate.
• 11:18
  So the example that he gave was that Tesla came to Exponent years ago saying
• 11:24
  the failure rate of their cells was about one in a million, and that was not a
• 11:30
  good enough rate for them to be able to start building cars in a meaningful way.
• 11:35
  So they came to Exponent to say, "How do we reduce the
• 11:38
  failure rate of these cells?"
• 11:41
  One thing that I did think was quite interesting was he did refer to EVs
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  as glorified golf carts whilst talking himself about driving a BMW 740.
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  So the cause of fires in EVs comes from a single cell warming up And the way that
• 12:01
  these things are, are, are laid out is that there's hundreds of these cells.
• 12:07
  Well, the way to perhaps think about it is something like a Prius, is
• 12:10
  under the back seat, there's something that looks like a giant cooler.
• 12:14
  Almost it looks a bit like the power pack, almost looks a bit like if
• 12:18
  you've seen tool chests in, in the bed of a pickup truck, those tool
• 12:22
  chests that go right up against the cab, those kind of tool chests.
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  It looks like something like that.
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  And inside it, when you, you open it up and, and take it apart, there's
• 12:32
  all these sliced modules of cells.
• 12:36
  So you can sort of pull them out almost like toast out of a toaster.
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  Then the individual cells are within each slice.
• 12:46
  So the reason that I know that is that, that HubNut did a video just recently
• 12:52
  where he tried to repair, successfully did repair the battery on a Toyota Prius.
• 12:58
  I'll include the link for him doing that.
• 13:01
  But the way that he did that was went to a specialist in, you know, rubber
• 13:05
  gloves and all of that, and it is a bit frightening 'cause the voltages
• 13:08
  are so huge that it'd just fucking fry you and kill you if you made a mistake.
• 13:13
  So there is, you know, that element of it.
• 13:15
  And, you know, when he was there with… Uh, he went to an EV dealer, uh, who
• 13:19
  he's friends with, and he did the work, but he had, like, the guy that deals
• 13:24
  in these secondhand EVs, he had him work with him basically for exactly
• 13:28
  for that reason of, of safety, and the tools, like the screwdrivers have got
• 13:32
  big rubber handles on them, and they were wearing, like, Marigold, like,
• 13:36
  washing up gloves to be doing the work.
• 13:38
  And what HubNut was saying is the business of taking the pack out or accessing
• 13:43
  the pack wasn't too difficult, but the business of, uh, when you put the pack
• 13:47
  back together, making sure that it's all, like, cross-referenced in the right
• 13:53
  way, he had the, you know, he had the specialist do that, and that to me looked
• 13:57
  like being a, a, a pretty hideous job.
• 14:00
  I guess the other part of it is that it's, it's not just enough to, like, pop
• 14:04
  another slice of toast in, so to speak.
• 14:07
  You have to balance the load across the cells.
• 14:11
  And part of the reason why I'm sharing this is I think you can tell how slim
• 14:16
  my understanding is of the topic, but I do feel like we're in a place
• 14:20
  now where there's beginning to be a raft of specialists who are able to
• 14:25
  replace and, and you as, uh, you know, and me as a car enthusiast is able
• 14:29
  to recognize, well, have we replaced just one slice of toast there, or have
• 14:34
  we replaced the entire power pack?
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  'Cause if we've done the whole power pack, that's gonna be better than just
• 14:40
  one slice of the toast and then having to balance the cells across the whole power
• 14:46
  pack with the new bank of cells inserted.
• 14:49
  But in essence, what happens and, and the language that this, um, physicist fellow,
• 14:54
  thermodynamicist specialist used…
• 14:57
  'Cause that's basically what the bloke was.
• 14:58
  The bloke was just like a specialist in- fire and explosions
• 15:24
  He talked about EV fires as being runaway thermal events.
• 15:24
  At first, you're a bit like, "Ooh, adult beverage." It's not really
• 15:24
  that because what we're saying is that one cell, there's a fault in
• 15:24
  the manufacturing somewhere, it's just a bit weak for some reason.
• 15:24
  And after the cycles of charge and recharge, and charge and recharge, and,
• 15:27
  you know, the ions flowing backwards and forwards, and backwards and
• 15:30
  forwards, and backwards and forward, it gets hot and it starts to fail.
• 15:33
  And as it starts to fail, not just that one gets hot, it
• 15:37
  heats up its neighbors as well.
• 15:40
  And that's what happens, is that if it heats up its neighbors as well and the
• 15:45
  neighbors become damaged, eventually… And he did show, you know, he showed
• 15:51
  video of this happening that, you know, if you can, you know, if you,
• 15:55
  if you can spot it coming, like, and get coolant to it within, like, half a
• 16:00
  second, you might stop it catching fire.
• 16:03
  But fundamentally, when you, you can spot a little bit when it
• 16:08
  starts to get overheated, but the thermal runway path is quite short.
• 16:13
  So think of it, one bit catches fire.
• 16:16
  So if in a, in a situation where the, a car's had a wreck and it's caught
• 16:22
  fire The fire brigade come and they put out the fire, but the energy's
• 16:27
  still sitting in the battery, and all the cells around the one that caught
• 16:32
  fire, they're all still damaged.
• 16:34
  Even more now if there's been a fire, probably the whole battery's
• 16:37
  damaged and there's hundreds of cells which are damaged.
• 16:40
  So it's very easy to imagine how fires could start again.
• 16:44
  And if you layer into the fact that, you know, when the Chevelle is on
• 16:48
  fire, you know, you spray fire at the top of it and the fire goes out.
• 16:52
  You know, you don't open the hood and the fire goes out.
• 16:54
  Whereas if it's in a battery that's underneath, unless the
• 16:58
  car's turned over, how are you even gonna spray the retardant onto it?
• 17:02
  Has the fire people even been trained to look out for this kind of thing?
• 17:07
  So it's just everyone being trained and ready to fight this new kind of fire
• 17:16
  that is the risk the, the EVs represent.
• 17:19
  And I do think it's interesting that whether it's the 10 to 20-year-old,
• 17:24
  you know, Chevelle or Hillman Hunter that catches fire, or whether it's the
• 17:28
  10 to 20-year-old Tesla that catches fire, it's still technology which is
• 17:34
  fundamentally… It's a lot of energy.
• 17:37
  It's a lot of energy which is stored, and that storage, as the
• 17:41
  mechanism of storing it becomes used up, it is likely to catch fire.
• 17:47
  However, the Tesla at 10 years old is still a whole lot less likely to
• 17:51
  catch fire than the Hillman Hunter was, or, you know, whatever other
• 17:55
  silly example it was I was just giving.
• 17:58
  So it's not that there's nothing in what the conspiracy theorists are saying.
• 18:03
  These EVs do catch fire in really weird and spooky ways, but for Christ's
• 18:07
  sake, it's just not very many of them.
• 18:09
  So Jeff, Jeff, you're misinforming people with this, and when I offered
• 18:13
  to correct you, you just ignored me, so I'm a little disappointed by that.
• 18:17
  There's a little bit of deliberate misinformation going on in the
• 18:27
  anti-EV world.
• 18:28
  Who knew?
• 18:28
  What a surprise.
• 18:29
  Yeah, so now they stack cells, but what they used to do is roll them up.
• 18:35
  So it used to be they used to do them more flat and then they would roll it,
• 18:38
  it all up, but that's an older design now and, and le- and less efficient.
• 18:43
  So the specifics of the thermal runaway event are this.
• 18:47
  That first the heating starts because of the cycling backwards and forwards
• 18:52
  and because that cell is maybe just less efficient than its neighbors.
• 18:57
  And if the heating is allowed to continue unchecked, the plastic
• 19:02
  around the cell softens and melts.
• 19:06
  That causes the electrolytes, which is the secret sauce of the battery that
• 19:11
  determines the electron flow and, you know, is why your Leaf battery claps out
• 19:17
  after a short amount of time, whereas Tesla batteries seem to last far longer.
• 19:21
  The electrolyte fluid boils.
• 19:24
  The boiling of the electrolyte fluid creates O2, and that's the first
• 19:30
  ingredients then for a full normal fire.
• 19:34
  Yeah, he showed us a video of like a rolled-up cell, so an older style cell.
• 19:39
  He showed it in s- slow motion and basically the whole thing
• 19:43
  like the process from like okay to full on fire was 200 milliseconds.
• 19:50
  I mean, it, it, it kind of boggled the mind, uh, a little bit.
• 19:53
  So just like with a gas car, if there's a tank full of gas, the
• 19:59
  fire risk is much worse than if there's not a tank full of gas.
• 20:02
  So if you're on 80% state of charge, the fire risk there, you know, for an
• 20:08
  EV which is wrecked and been damaged, if the battery pack has been physically
• 20:12
  damaged, you know, 'cause if you hit it with a hammer or you smash it…
• 20:16
  Like in fact, here's a really interesting comparison that he gave.
• 20:21
  The plane companies have in place a whole bunch of, you know, tray tables
• 20:27
  upright kind of policies that are specifically around making sure that
• 20:33
  you… It's the phone drop, right?
• 20:35
  You know, they're always like, "You know, we'll help you
• 20:36
  find the phone," all of that.
• 20:38
  It's because hell or high water, they don't want the phone to be
• 20:41
  trapped in the reclining chair.
• 20:43
  Because if the phone or an iPad or a computer's trapped in one of the reclining
• 20:48
  seats, you recline it, you break the device, you damage the bat-- you know, you
• 20:52
  bend the device, you damage the battery.
• 20:55
  That is why laptops and cell phones can burst into flames
• 21:00
  for exactly the same reason.
• 21:01
  The cell's damaged, and it leads to this breakdown, and then, you know, the full-on
• 21:06
  release of energy in the form of, of fire.
• 21:10
  So with a full battery, the fire is gonna be briefer and more intense.
• 21:16
  You remember there was that incident where a car ferry had
• 21:20
  caught fire not so long ago.
• 21:21
  I'll include a link to it.
• 21:23
  I think there were multiple incidents, but what that has led to is the, the
• 21:29
  shipping companies are demanding that the cars ship with a less than 50%
• 21:35
  state of charge to avoid the fire risk.
• 21:37
  Because if they have a fuller battery, the fire… There's just, you know,
• 21:42
  there's more gas to burn, right?
• 21:43
  It's, it's that simple.
• 21:44
  It's in a different form, but nonetheless, the stored energy, there's an issue with
• 21:49
  that, with how the energy is stored.
• 21:52
  If a cell fails, if there's a fault in the manufacturing, you
• 21:56
  have this runaway thermal event.
• 21:59
  And, you know, it always existed, right?
• 22:01
  The Hillman Hunters on their way being shipped to Iran.
• 22:03
  Did you know there's lots and lots of Hillman Hunters in Iran?
• 22:07
  There's a whole sidebar about Hillman Hunters being made after marketing.
• 22:11
  But let's imagine the first Hillman Hunters, they were actually sh- shipped
• 22:15
  as knock-down kits and built in Iran.
• 22:18
  But no, let's imagine the cars being shipped on the ferry in the same way.
• 22:21
  For every 100,000 Hillman Hunters, one might have a
• 22:25
  cracked fuel line, mightn't it?
• 22:26
  And that car might leak gas, and when you fire it up to drive it off the
• 22:30
  ferry, it might catch fire, just exactly in the way that the, uh, that the EVs
• 22:38
  have.
• 22:39
  So he wanted to talk about some particular issues.
• 22:42
  One of them was that in 2021, all Chevy Bolts had a, a recall, and
• 22:48
  they replaced all the batteries.
• 22:50
  So it's like 140,000 batteries replaced.
• 22:52
  Apparently, it cost GM $2 billion to do it.
• 22:56
  But the thing that they did with the replacements was they limited
• 22:59
  charging to 80%, because when they were carrying more than 80% charge,
• 23:03
  that was when there was a fire risk.
• 23:05
  The other example he had, and you may remember this, was that Hyundai
• 23:09
  had fire issues in 2022, and were telling people to park their cars
• 23:13
  outside because of the fire risk.
• 23:15
  But these were ICE cars.
• 23:17
  It just goes to show that even, you know, there's modern versions of
• 23:21
  Hillman Hunters being built with cracked fuel lines because there's
• 23:25
  just so many components on modern cars.
• 23:27
  So it only takes one little slip twixt cup and lip, and, and you can find
• 23:32
  yourself in this kind of situation.
• 23:37
  There is a conclusion to be drawn from that, isn't there?
• 23:40
  That are EV fires a real thing?
• 23:43
  Yes.
• 23:44
  Is it important that we train our firefighters and all of the infrastructure
• 23:50
  around accident prevention, you know, tow truck drivers, all of that?
• 23:54
  Is it important that everyone understands that these things
• 23:57
  catch fire in a different way from the way that gas cars do?
• 24:00
  Oh, yes, for sure.
• 24:01
  But the fundamentals of it, most cars don't catch fire, some do if
• 24:06
  there's a fault in manufacturing.
• 24:08
  We're working really hard to try and limit the number of faults in manufacturing.
• 24:12
  We're much better now than we were years ago.
• 24:15
  These EVs are orders of magnitude better than modern … Than, you know, even,
• 24:22
  you know, the, the gas-powered cars of the 2010s, let alone the gas-powered cars
• 24:27
  of the '70s and the '80s for fire risk.
• 24:31
  It's a bit of a storm in a teacup, that, isn't it?
• 24:33
  Sure, we need to be afraid.
• 24:35
  Sure, the fires are different from other kinds of fires, but, but really
• 24:39
  this is a bit of a non-story, isn't it?
• 24:42
  So there you go.
• 24:43
  That's my two cents on EV fires.
• 24:46
  Thank you, Drive Thru.
• 24:58
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