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Exiting STC chairman reflects on his tenure · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Machine Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: This week I was pleased to speak with Mike Hayes, who has been on the State Transportation Commission for 14 years and is stepping down so he can further enjoy his retirement.
• 0:31
  Jeff Cranson: He was chair of the commission for the last couple of years.
• 0:35
  Jeff Cranson: He talks about his time overseeing some policy recommendations that the commission has made and what he learned along the way about transportation and specifically about the Michigan Department of Transportation and what myths he encountered and was able to knock down and how he's used that.
• 0:57
  Jeff Cranson: His experience learning new things as an ambassador for the department to educate friends and associates and family members about some of the misperceptions they might have.
• 1:07
  Jeff Cranson: And he also talked about his background as a community leader and lawmaker and how that informed his time on the commission.
• 1:15
  Jeff Cranson: And lastly, we talked a little bit about his work on the International Authority, which is a body comprised of three Canadian members and three US members that have helped uh oversee the building of the Gordia Gao International Bridge, which will open sometime in the next few months.
• 1:34
  Jeff Cranson: Recording was a little rocky in places, and I have to apologize for that ahead of time.
• 1:39
  Jeff Cranson: He was out of state and the connection was sometimes rough, but I still hope that you uh enjoy the conversation and the things that that Mike had to say.
• 1:49
  Jeff Cranson: Mike Hayes, who has stepped down as chairman of the State Transportation Commission after after being uh one of the two longest serving members of that commission since it was created um and added in the constitution in 1978.
• 2:06
  Jeff Cranson: Um, he was active in a number of community fairs in Midland for many years, served in the Michigan House of Representatives, and did a number of things, even serves on the international authority, which is overseeing the building of the Gordie Howard International Bridge.
• 2:20
  Jeff Cranson: And we'll talk about that a little bit later.
• 2:22
  Jeff Cranson: But Mike, first, I I kind of wanted to talk about, and we touched on this briefly when you were on the podcast when you became chairman, but with a little more time to reflect, um, what your perceptions were of the department, um, both as a lawmaker and a business leader before you joined the commission and and kind of, you know, what changed as you learned things along the way?
• 2:45
  Mike Hayes: Well, that's a good question.
• 2:46
  Mike Hayes: Uh, I have to go back quite a few years to remember what was in my mind back then.
• 2:51
  Mike Hayes: But uh, you know, I I suppose I was uh I had a lot of solid uh thoughts and I also had a lot of invalid thoughts.
• 3:00
  Mike Hayes: Um you know I I always I remember my dad growing up uh would say, you're just lucky we live in Michigan.
• 3:08
  Mike Hayes: We have the best in America.
• 3:10
  Mike Hayes: And uh and I've always actually taken great pride in Michigan roads.
• 3:15
  Mike Hayes: Now I know we have our issues.
• 3:17
  Mike Hayes: Uh we know we have we have the the freeze-thaw uh effect that just really is tough to deal with.
• 3:25
  Mike Hayes: And so I I know we had issues, but I've always felt that we had a a really good system, uh, one that uh that we could be very proud of serving you know the the whole state, so many miles of of state and federal highway.
• 3:39
  Mike Hayes: But I I learned quickly that it's it's not as simple as, gee, we I like a smooth road and I like a well-designed road, and I want a road that's there to get me from where I am to where I want to be.
• 3:53
  Mike Hayes: There's just so much that goes into it that I didn't didn't realize.
• 3:57
  Mike Hayes: And uh the MDOT staff and leadership around safety and design and durability just uh really um really impressed me uh as I got to know more and more about MDOT and uh what it takes to have a good solid highway
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: system.
• 4:20
  Jeff Cranson: So can you uh thinking back, uh talk a little bit about what you thought your your role should be and as it evolved in your understanding as a commissioner, we know the STC is a is a policy-making body.
• 4:37
  Jeff Cranson: Um it's its charge is to help the department uh you know be representative of the citizens and help the department make decisions about policies.
• 4:48
  Jeff Cranson: You probably had to learn a lot along the way.
• 4:50
  Jeff Cranson: Could you talk about that?
• 4:51
  Jeff Cranson: Sure.
• 4:52
  Mike Hayes: That was not, I mean, I know what the Constitution said, but I don't think I kind of comprehended what that meant very well.
• 5:00
  Mike Hayes: The commission is not there to manage the department or second guess the department leadership, but to uh to be that outside voice, uh the public voice, uh um expressing kind of what people are thinking in around the highway system, and to make sure policy that will enable the the development of and maintenance of the best highway system we can possibly uh have.
• 5:30
  Mike Hayes: And that's a very that's a 40,000-foot look at the MDOT process, if you will.
• 5:37
  Mike Hayes: So the commission needs to stay up at that level.
• 5:41
  Mike Hayes: Uh throughout the the time that I served on the commission, the various different directors and and their staff, uh senior staff, I never felt it was my job to tell them how to run the department or how to build roads.
• 5:56
  Mike Hayes: Frankly, I've kitted about this.
• 5:57
  Mike Hayes: And Jeff, you've heard me kid about it.
• 5:59
  Mike Hayes: I can't build a birdhouse.
• 6:01
  Mike Hayes: But uh, and so don't put me in a point in a place where I've got to make decisions about how roads should be built.
• 6:09
  Mike Hayes: But the overarching policy of how the public should be served by a state highway system, that's what the State Transportation Commission is there for.
• 6:20
  Mike Hayes: And I I feel like over my tenure on the commission, and then in the last couple of years as chairman, uh, I tried to make sure that that the commission stayed focused at that level, not at the micro level of of just how the work gets done.
• 6:39
  Mike Hayes: Nor does the commission have anything to do with funding.
• 6:42
  Mike Hayes: I thought perhaps maybe there was some impact the commission could have on funding, but that really lies completely with the governor and the legislature and not with the commission.
• 6:53
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, but having said that, um, you did, I think, advocate as much as you could um in terms of resolutions and conversations to to at least try to educate the public on funding.
• 7:07
  Jeff Cranson: Um could you talk a little bit about that and what you again going to what you kind of learned along the way about that?
• 7:14
  Mike Hayes: No, I I think that's a really that's a good question.
• 7:17
  Mike Hayes: As I as I said my previous answer, I was thinking, well, that's not totally accurate.
• 7:21
  Mike Hayes: Uh you really ought to be, as a commissioner, you ought to be an ambassador of sorts for knowledge, uh a purveyor of knowledge about the highway system, how it's how it works, what goes into it.
• 7:35
  Mike Hayes: I did spend a considerable amount of time trying to educate the public, legislators for that matter, uh, regarding the needs and uh uh just how how important to to the the economic education, safety, uh, the convenience of Michigan citizens are all so impacted by a good highway system.
• 7:59
  Mike Hayes: And it's it's important for uh for all the citizens of Michigan and those in any position of uh decision making to realize just how critical the roads are.
• 8:11
  Mike Hayes: So I tried to, in the commission meetings even speak up uh at times about the need for uh for good good solid funding.
• 8:19
  Mike Hayes: We did do something during my tenure that I'm very proud of, and that was pass the bond issue, uh approved the bond issue uh so that we could uh get a significant infusion of funds into the system to bring the roads up to where the the highways up to where they should be.
• 8:37
  Mike Hayes: Um and we did we did do that.
• 8:39
  Mike Hayes: So we we do have that authority as a commission and and we did take advantage of that.
• 8:44
  Jeff Cranson: Well, you were yeah, part of a unanimous commission vote to approve the $3.5 billion in bonds that the governor asked for, and you oversaw the the project list that MDOT submitted as the best use for that money.
• 9:00
  Jeff Cranson: And I firmly believe, and I think you do too, that as much as we prefer not to use debt to do these things, the debt from these bonds pales in comparison to what we're leaving our our posterity by not doing anything and letting the roads and bridges crumble.
• 9:14
  Mike Hayes: Absolutely.
• 9:15
  Mike Hayes: That that was the conclusion I came to.
• 9:17
  Mike Hayes: You mentioned in my introduction that I'm a former state legislator.
• 9:20
  Mike Hayes: I I've never been uh a big proponent of heavy uh public debt, but uh we're in a position where for one reason or another, uh good solid funding was not coming forth uh from the legislative process.
• 9:36
  Mike Hayes: And so we we just owed it to everyone in Michigan to find an infusion of funds that could keep us from reaching a level of deterioration that perhaps uh it would take you know forever to come back to.
• 9:56
  Mike Hayes: And so it was uh it was a prudent thing to do.
• 9:59
  Mike Hayes: Um previous governors of both parties had done the same thing, and so it was not uh highly unusual.
• 10:06
  Mike Hayes: Uh it's certainly a uh uh a strong decision to take, but uh but it was one that was uh was I think critical.
• 10:16
  Mike Hayes: The uh the point I I'd also like to make is that uh and I talk with you know friends, neighbors, uh, and so on, and and everyone wants good roads.
• 10:26
  Mike Hayes: Everyone likes to complain about bad roads, but people are just reluctant to support good fiscal policy that supports the roads.
• 10:34
  Mike Hayes: And that's if if there's been one very discouraging thing over my time on the commission, it's get enough public support for good solid road funding.
• 10:44
  Mike Hayes: And I don't know what the prescription for that is, but if I have one disappointment, it's that we haven't been able to rally the public.
• 10:52
  Mike Hayes: Uh, we can't complain about potholes or complaint that we don't have roads to from A to B if we aren't willing to accept the cost of building those.
• 11:03
  Mike Hayes: They don't uh uh that money does not fall from the skies.
• 11:06
  Mike Hayes: It has to be uh it has to be raised um from the taxpayers.
• 11:11
  Mike Hayes: And I I wish we could have been more successful in getting a uh a good solid road funding package.
• 11:18
  Mike Hayes: We did we did some things, certainly Governor Snyder did, Governor Whitmer did, uh, but we we're not there yet as to where we should be for road funding.
• 11:26
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, very well said.
• 11:28
  Jeff Cranson: Stay with us.
• 11:28
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 11:32
  MDOT Announcement: In Michigan, safety comes first on the roads.
• 11:35
  MDOT Announcement: To combat distracted driving, Michigan passed the hands-free law.
• 11:39
  MDOT Announcement: The law makes holding or manually using a cell phone or other mobile electronic device while operating a vehicle a primary offense.
• 11:47
  MDOT Announcement: This means an officer can stop and ticket you for violating the law.
• 11:51
  MDOT Announcement: This can include, but not limited to, sending or receiving a call, sending, receiving, or reading a text or email, accessing, reading, or posting to social media sites, or entering locations into the phone GPS.
• 12:05
  MDOT Announcement: With this law in place, drivers are encouraged to stay focused, keeping their hands on the wheel and their attention on the road.
• 12:12
  MDOT Announcement: Drive smart, drive safe, drive hands-free.
• 12:15
  MDOT Announcement: Michigan's hands-free law, making the road safer for everyone.
• 12:21
  Jeff Cranson: What are some of the myths and misperceptions that you still encounter when you're talking to friends and associates?
• 12:29
  Jeff Cranson: Uh, you know, I think a lot of people feel like sometimes, depending on the crowd, I might not want to tell them that I'm associated with transportation, whether it's a local streets department or a county, you know, or MDOT.
• 12:42
  Jeff Cranson: Uh, but obviously you're well known in your community and people know what you do.
• 12:46
  Jeff Cranson: So how how rigorous have you had to be in in trying to set people straight?
• 12:52
  Mike Hayes: Uh uh departments of transportation all over America can be the the brunt of jokes in in the individual states and and people do that.
• 12:59
  Mike Hayes: And and they're probably going to always do that.
• 13:02
  Mike Hayes: But it it's important as a commissioner, and it's important for all MDOT leadership and employees to help people understand uh just how complicated building roads is to build them safely and uh and to build them uh with excellence in engineering and design and uh and to build them with durability.
• 13:28
  Mike Hayes: And so what what I've gotten is is is side remarks from people.
• 13:34
  Mike Hayes: Uh oh, you know, you go past a uh a construction zone and everybody's standing around doing nothing, uh which is just absurd.
• 13:42
  Mike Hayes: And I I would point out to people that, you know, most all the roads and highways built or repaired are being done by the private sector companies that are contracted with the state, and then the state has a rigorous contracting and and bidding process that that they have to go through.
• 14:02
  Mike Hayes: And then when they are awarded the bid, it's up to them to get it done uh in within the uh within the bid range.
• 14:12
  Mike Hayes: And um and people don't people don't realize that.
• 14:15
  Mike Hayes: I think they they some people even think that all those people working behind the orange cones got employees.
• 14:21
  Mike Hayes: And um I'm I'm quick to to educate them on just how the road building process works.
• 14:27
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I would uh tell you that's for sure.
• 14:29
  Jeff Cranson: And if you talk to our social media coordinator um who has to answer these questions on the various platforms, uh that is one that comes up a lot.
• 14:38
  Jeff Cranson: And there's still a heck of a lot of people that assume that those are all state employees out there manning the equipment and holding the shovels.
• 14:46
  Mike Hayes: I I've talked I told you, Jeff, at times that uh you're social the social media person for MDOT uh deserves a purple heart and a gold medal.
• 14:57
  Mike Hayes: Um just uh extremely patient and answering people very thoughtfully uh and truthfully.
• 15:03
  Mike Hayes: And uh it's it's pretty amazing what that uh uh what those folks do with the social media and and try to clear up misconceptions, uh misinformation because there's a lot of it out there.
• 15:16
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, and that's mostly Jesse Ball, who is our social media coordinator, and he is a happy warrior to be sure.
• 15:24
  Jeff Cranson: Um but also the area feeds, the region feeds um are manned by the various media relations people, and they also do a good job answering those questions.
• 15:36
  Jeff Cranson: And I always appreciate you acknowledging that.
• 15:39
  Jeff Cranson: Maybe talk just a little bit too beyond the bonding and some of the other accomplishments.
• 15:43
  Jeff Cranson: Um, you've had to learn a lot about technology and stay abreast of a lot of rapidly changing things.
• 15:50
  Jeff Cranson: Um, I think because you're intellectually curious, you've enjoyed that hearing presentations and learning about those things.
• 15:55
  Jeff Cranson: Um, is there anything there that kind of stands out?
• 15:59
  Mike Hayes: Well, I think what stands out for me is is that Michigan is such a uh the mission is such a leader uh or involved in the leadership throughout the country on um on you know engineering and design and and uh construct construction requirements and uh and and safety.
• 16:18
  Mike Hayes: And so I um I've been impressed at uh how MDOT is engaged at the highest levels uh nationwide and uh and does two things.
• 16:31
  Mike Hayes: One, it provides good insight and leadership um based on our experiences in Michigan, but also uh listens carefully and learns from uh from uh our peers in the other states and implements best practices based on the experiences of others.
• 16:50
  Mike Hayes: We're our our uh the requirements into the federal highway uh administration are are rigorous, uh they're thoughtful.
• 17:00
  Mike Hayes: Uh MDOT does an exceedingly good job of meeting the clearance and uh and employing uh some of the the most current and best technology uh known throughout the country, maybe even throughout the world.
• 17:17
  Mike Hayes: Um never ever uh there's never been a pride in MDOT of of ownership.
• 17:24
  Mike Hayes: It's always been an openness the 14 years I've been involved to new ideas and and uh new innovations and and good solid engineering and design practices.
• 17:34
  Mike Hayes: So I've been always impressed uh at the highest levels in MDOT and throughout the the department, uh to people's opening to learning from others.
• 17:45
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I tend to think that most of the best ideas are derivative.
• 17:49
  Jeff Cranson: And my first question, whenever a lawmaker comes up with a new idea for legislation or asks a question um is you know, what are the other states doing?
• 18:00
  Jeff Cranson: Let's let's find out uh if somebody else has already figured this out and you know, we don't need to build a better mousetrap if we can just do what they're doing and figure out a way to do it efficiently.
• 18:10
  Jeff Cranson: And and you're right, I think uh I think all the state DOTs participate in those kinds of peer sharing reviews and various conferences and programs just so that they can do that and make sure that if somebody else is doing something really well, they can they can borrow the idea.
• 18:28
  Jeff Cranson: So I'm I appreciate that you acknowledge that.
• 18:31
  Mike Hayes: Yeah, there's no uh you can't be have too much pride in that area that you can't learn from others and uh steal those good ideas.
• 18:41
  Mike Hayes: That's right.
• 18:42
  Mike Hayes: But I think transportation officials throughout the country uh in the US, I think are very good at sharing best practices and learning from each other, and that's been a key learning for me, too, to watch over the years.
• 18:55
  Jeff Cranson: Let's touch on your time on the international authority.
• 18:58
  Jeff Cranson: Um, that's another great experience that you've had related to transportation.
• 19:02
  Jeff Cranson: Um, really once-in-a-lifetime piece of infrastructure, the Gordy Hauer International Bridge.
• 19:08
  Jeff Cranson: Um, most of us uh definitely won't see something else like that uh for a number of years.
• 19:14
  Jeff Cranson: And uh, you know, it's it's planned to be open uh sometime in the next few months, sometime in the spring, is what the Windsor Detroit Bridge Authority is telling us.
• 19:24
  Jeff Cranson: So uh, and your tenure will continue on the IA.
• 19:28
  Jeff Cranson: So talk about that and what you've learned along the way.
• 19:31
  Mike Hayes: That's been a phenomenal experience.
• 19:33
  Mike Hayes: Uh when Governor Schneider asked me to serve in that capacity, um, I put some thought into it.
• 19:39
  Mike Hayes: And I I thought to myself, just like you just said, that's an opportunity.
• 19:45
  Mike Hayes: I've had a lot of public service throughout my adult life.
• 19:49
  Mike Hayes: This was an opportunity for uh you know, a capstone to that, of something that'll last for generations.
• 19:55
  Mike Hayes: And the people of Canada and the United States will be extremely well served, uh, both in in leisure and and um and commerce uh by a new cross that's going to be fed and and then in both directions by excellent highway systems, the uh uh the Herb Gray Parkway in Canada and the I-75 interchange in the U.S.
• 20:20
  Mike Hayes: uh it's going to be phenomenal.
• 20:22
  Mike Hayes: And it's I I I'm so proud to have been asked to be involved.
• 20:28
  Mike Hayes: It's been a uh quite an experience.
• 20:30
  Mike Hayes: Uh three Canadians and three uh Americans uh on the commission, or on the authorities, excuse me.
• 20:36
  Mike Hayes: And um and we uh we've learned from each other.
• 20:40
  Mike Hayes: Um we've all served very felt really out of commitment to the people of Canada and Michigan.
• 20:50
  Mike Hayes: And uh it's it's been a a joy.
• 20:52
  Mike Hayes: I can't wait for it to to open.
• 20:55
  Mike Hayes: I've been out to the middle of it.
• 20:56
  Mike Hayes: It's exciting.
• 20:58
  Mike Hayes: Um, it's big.
• 21:00
  Mike Hayes: I I think people will be take great joy using it uh and and uh observing it as a as a landmark uh structure in the on the Detroit River.
• 21:13
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, when they finally completed that center portion, that very iconic photo, one of the coolest things I've seen in this job was the Canadian iron worker and the U.S.
• 21:24
  Jeff Cranson: iron worker shaking hands.
• 21:26
  Jeff Cranson: And I had a chance to speak to both of them on the podcast a while back, and it was really fascinating how how uh how how much they recognized what a historic moment that was and to be part of it.
• 21:38
  Jeff Cranson: So yeah, absolutely.
• 21:40
  Mike Hayes: I think partnering with our neighbors to the north, uh, well, actually some to the south, Canada, um our friends in Canada, it's really been gratifying to me personally in my public service time to have that kind of time with Canadians, uh in And working so positively and with such such a commitment on both sides to making this happen for the people uh of Canada and Michigan.
• 22:10
  Mike Hayes: Uh it's been very, very gratifying.
• 22:13
  Jeff Cranson: No, I feel the same way.
• 22:14
  Jeff Cranson: The uh I've come to be uh very close and and good friends with some of my counterparts and the ones who Detroit Bridge Authority.
• 22:21
  Jeff Cranson: And uh yeah, they're great people and they've been so committed to this and they've had to endure, you know, a lot of obstacles as you would expect building something of this uh enormous size.
• 22:33
  Jeff Cranson: But they have they've hung it there and endured very professionally.
• 22:37
  Jeff Cranson: Well, thank you, Mike.
• 22:39
  Jeff Cranson: Uh thank you again for your uh service on the State Transportation Commission to MDOT into the state and your ongoing service to their national authority.
• 22:48
  Jeff Cranson: Um I wish you the best and I appreciate you uh sharing your thoughts uh with the listeners of the podcast.
• 22:56
  Mike Hayes: Jeff, I appreciate being asked.
• 22:58
  Mike Hayes: And uh the one thing I haven't mentioned is uh throughout those 14 years, I've been out in all parts of the state interacting with all of the leaders uh and and field staff out in the and throughout the state of Michigan, and they're just phenomenal people.
• 23:15
  Mike Hayes: They do such a great job communicating with and working with the public.
• 23:20
  Mike Hayes: Um and I'm just very proud to have been asked to uh to serve in a in a leadership role at a uh a level appropriate for the State Transportation Commission, but it got me down uh involved with all of the regions, and I'm very proud of all of the folks out there that wear that M DOT uh that MDOT shield.
• 23:45
  Jeff Cranson: That's very nice of you to say.
• 23:47
  Jeff Cranson: Um thank you again, Mike, and enjoy your uh your time away.
• 23:52
  Jeff Cranson: I'm gonna try real hard, Jeff.
• 23:55
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 24:00
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 24:04
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who helped make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.