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Should I Say Something? · The Pause Before You Lead

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like if someone brings that forward and says, This this news story I found really disturbing.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's out in the room now.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So what are what are the choices?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, like immediately noticing, okay, oh where am I in this?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Has it triggered old memories or old experiences for myself that I'm also having to manage in addition to wanting to create psychological safety in the room?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the pause before you lead.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Alicia Saint, and I'm Heather Haig.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we've both led teams inside large organizations.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And over the past decade, we've coached and partnered with hundreds of leaders and teams navigating complexity.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen, felt, heard, and supported leaders through the challenging and sometimes really messy parts of leadership.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And while a lot has changed, many of the patterns that quietly take leaders off track just keep showing up.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: We work with leaders who don't want to lose momentum, but who know that clearer thinking is what makes momentum sustainable.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast is for leaders who are moving fast, leading teams, and making decisions under constant pressure.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: And leaders who know there's a better way to think, lead, and respond in those moments.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, we bring you real conversations drawn from our work with leaders and teams.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where speed matters, stakes are high, and the quality of your thinking shapes everything.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: So in each episode, we're going to pause just long enough to think more clearly, to see what's really going on, make better decisions, and build high-value teams.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're listening before the day takes over, on your way to work, or in the middle of a full day, this is your pause without losing momentum.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: So before we begin, take a breath and join us.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, welcome to the pause before you lead.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Heather Haig.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Alicia Saint.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: And this week we are exploring a topic that both of us had an interesting reaction to when we considered bringing this to the conversation.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so we felt almost like we had to take on the challenge.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the question that we're exploring is: should I say something?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And really, Alicia, I think each of us are going to sort of take turns to how this came to be.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: But we've been talking in our weekly meetings about some of the challenges with news stories that have been coming to light.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the question that we were asking that made us both a little uncomfortable is what would you do if something like this were said in a team meeting or in a in a work environment if you're the leader?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that feeling of should I say something or how do I say something when an opinion or something that feels like it could be harmful is expressed on the team.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine it's it's Monday morning and you have your team meeting like you do every Monday morning, and some big news story broke, you know, and you notice people were at the water cooler in, you know, parenthesis before they came into the meeting, and you could overhear them talking about it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: You could hear some voices were raised, you could hear there was some tension in the conversation, and then everyone walks into the into the meeting, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that energy is present, right?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: You could just feel it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's some tension, there's some angst, maybe even a little bit.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, as we have talked about as a leader, you know, don't just jump right into, okay, so on the agenda for today, right?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: The importance of the psychological safety and checking in with each other and how are we doing?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: How are people's weekends?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like having that human-centered, you know, first approach to build connection and psychological safety.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: What if someone said, you know what, we just really had a had a really tough conversation and I'm having a hard time focusing in for this meeting.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so you and I were both like, okay, as a leader, what do you do?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And my reaction was, I noticed I was like literally physically leaning back.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, oh, like, I don't want to go near this one.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I hope this comes off well.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: But we're doing an experiment, right?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're imagining we are putting ourselves in the shoes of, to the best of our ability, leaders today that might be walking into that room.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you honor psychological safety, you know, being heard, being seen?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a tough conversation.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: The other element is how does my own past experience impact how I'm observing whatever was said?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, there it isn't just a what am I noticing is happening in the room, which of course we want leaders to feel that's an important part of their role within a room, is to be noticing what's happening to others.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And noticing what's happening to ourselves.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you have had an experience with another example of that, maybe I'll just pick a personal story that's going back many years now.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember I had someone within my work environment, not someone I reported to, not someone that even was part of my team, who would come over to me and call me Heatherkins in the office and ask me to fax stuff for them.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it was to me at the time overt gender bias because there were other men sitting at the shared desk.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Never came to anybody else, and certainly didn't call them, you know, uh Michael Kins or, you know, David Kins.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like no one else got those nicknames.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: But here I was, hey, Heather Kins, can you fax this for me?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember at the time, two things.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: One was, did I did I feel like I had psychological safety to address this directly?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing I was feeling was, isn't anyone else gonna say how inappropriate this is?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like at what point does someone else go, that's not okay?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I just think about how easy it can be for something that someone, and I don't think that this leader, uh, by the way, uh necessarily thought it was offensive.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: They probably thought it was it was cute.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was a term of endearment.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Friendly, yeah, yeah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: And and so, and those kinds of things that are not as overt, some of them are very overt, but sometimes it's just you can tell something, someone's being made to feel uncomfortable.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And what is the responsibility of the leader in those moments?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah, yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So some different ways to think about it, right?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's sort of that one-on-one experience.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's in a group, like in your team, right?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like someone brings that forward and says, This news story I found really disturbing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's out in the room now.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what are what are the choices?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, like immediately noticing, okay, oh, where am I in this?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Has it triggered old memories or old experiences for myself that I'm also having to manage in addition to wanting to create psychological safety in the room?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Address what's been said, do it in such a way that that it that it doesn't come across as attacking.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many variables that a leader needs to be thinking about.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: What would we do?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: What would Who wants to take the hot seat first?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think there's what I did then and what I do now, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you can kind of also toggle between like lessons learned along the way.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So so in my early career, it felt generally unsafe to raise things that made me feel excluded or made me feel targeted in some way.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: I did not have I felt I felt anger towards it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I had emotion towards it, but I didn't necessarily have the confidence or a sense of safety that someone would come to my defense if I spoke up.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: As I got more bold in my career, I would challenge it more often, but I think it would depend on who said it, who was in the room, what were the circumstances.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I was still maybe uh too hesitant, but more likely to speak up about it than to pretend like nothing had happened.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can remember a couple a couple of inappropriate comments being made towards me, uh, where I actually, somewhat jokingly, but somewhat not jokingly, would pull out the sexual harassment pamphlet and just hold it up.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like an overt, you can't say that to me, but it was an uh me subtly saying this is not okay.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure that's so subtle, but yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: How about for you?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if we could just just stay with that for one minute, because the other thing I I just wanted that you brought up that I think is really helpful is bringing humor.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I think bringing humor can be helpful, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's what we're lacking a lot of right now is you know, how do you make your point in a way that makes the point without being on an attack, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: You might be justified, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And how does it land and and does it get you the outcome that you're hoping for?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what you just said there, you know, sort of using using some humor but making your point is I think a really helpful strategy.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: It it's interesting because I I do think you would also have to be cautious or or maybe not cautious, but conscious of the fact that humor might not land when something doesn't feel funny.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: So so as the leader, to be discerning to say, what's how do I assess the seriousness of what's been said?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And who is in the room is experiencing a reaction to what's been said.
• 12:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: And is humor what's helpful here, or is taking a more serious tone about what is or isn't acceptable within the team appropriate?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what are all the choices in a response, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'm just really noticing it's it's um because it's in the moment, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, you don't know this is coming into the room.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you involve the team?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's even another question.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is this an involvement of the team, or is this a time where you need to take a stance?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like this isn't a collaborative conversation.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to take a stand in this moment?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think as leaders, there is a responsibility for us, whether we're um as a coach holding space in a room or as the leader leading the meeting in in those situations, to is this accidental or intentional?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like is someone attacking someone, or is someone saying something out of ignorance and they don't know that this could be offensive to someone else in the room?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like how do we just offensive.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's what I mean.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think I think sometimes someone can say something that that is actually uh whether it's a racist comment or a sexist comment or um political or religious.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a even a neurodiverse comment.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like like things can be offensive in a number of ways that is not inclusive to those in the room.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: And and so the the question that I kind of start with is how do I assess the level of severity?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not even sure what the right word of that is, but what is this a worthy of discussion around how do we ensure everyone feels psychologically safe in the room?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Or is it a I need to directly say comments like this are not welcome in in this room?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just um uh I think all of that if someone puts a comment out into the room, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we were just talking about this news story, and uh I'm really offended by the comments made by Junk.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure that I can really focus for today's conversation because it's really got me rattled.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't think that those kind of comments should be belong in the workplace.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: So what what's interesting about that scenario, Alicia, and I almost feel like maybe you and I have been talking about different uh different experiences, even as as you articulate that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what's so interesting about this experiment where we kind of go, let's just see where we get to on a really difficult topic.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: But is, you know, to me, I say, I'm thinking, would the person who's offended have the say the like there's incredible psychological safety to be able to say, I'm offended and I can't pay attention right now because this was said and I don't think it should have been.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, like there's a piece of that that makes me feel extremely hopeful, actually, in a in a different energy than I was feeling sort of a minute and a half ago, that says, wow, like if if we've already established an environment as the leader where people can openly express, I can't think right now because I'm still offended by what my peer at the table said.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't seem to move past it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: What a powerful invitation to the group to say, let's let's take a pause and address this.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or, or to say to that person, so thank you for sharing.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now that you've brought this into the room, how would you like to?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: What would be useful for you having shared that with everybody?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where I was going with it too.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I think it's natural to go, oh my God, I own this.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a leader, like someone shares something like, oh my God, I I own this, I gotta fix it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's my it's become my problem quickly, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I really, really agree with what you just said is acknowledge it, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I can see how I can see how this is um upsetting to you.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that you've shared that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: What would be helpful in order for us to move like to have this meeting?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: What would be helpful?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And sort of look at everybody, not just look at that person, but like look at everyone.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because the assumption is there may be others in that room that are also distracted or disturbed.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess if no one in the room raised it before you as the leader and you heard it and everything, everyone just got quiet.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: No one actually said, I can't pay attention.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do you in this sort of similar way to this team member that we've said come forward say, you know, I just heard I just I just heard this comment was made.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how other people are experiencing it.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's concerning to me.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: So before we move forward, I just wanted to take a pause.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like well, yeah, because there's there's a danger to raising it and there's a danger to say staying silent, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Especially I think maybe there's context here, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: If it's obvious that you heard that comment.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of like the group was like, oh, there's Heather.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we didn't think she was, you know what I mean?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's clear that you heard that, right?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Then exactly.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, okay, I heard that.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: They know I heard it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know they heard it, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like And it feels like you do need to bring at least bring it into the room to say, I want to check in.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something that we want to talk about as a team?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can also look at it from you and I both have different styles, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm the the connector, I'm the people first.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So harmony is everything to me, and I care.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I get dysregulated when I think others are dysregulated, right?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult for me to move, you know, kind of step over and go to the business if I sense that there's there's um disharmony.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think disharmony is a word, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm noticing about my me, I'd be, I'd want to go there, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then you from impact, or anyone, like with more of an impact style.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I can't speak for anyone with impact because again, this is such a there's so much about our own lived experience and our own lens of things that are sensitive.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know that I would be trying to repair harmony so much as addressing something that is just not in alignment with integrity.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I it feels like something's out of integrity.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where I say I'm different now than I was when I was younger, because now I feel a very strong responsibility, almost obligation to call it out, even if it makes people uncomfortable.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because to do nothing, to stay silent, is a disservice to the person in the room who has been excluded or feels attacked or unsafe.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is that's I feel such a strong that's a responsibility of the leader.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and to sit back and do nothing suggests acceptance of it, permission to continue.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking even that as an opening could could work, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, this is this is what I heard.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, check in.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did I did I hear that correctly?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if I caught that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's here's how hospital.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have that right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think I heard.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you intended to say?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: As I share it back with you, what what how do you hear it?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um you raised a really interesting question.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is it an in-the-room conversation or is it an outside of the room?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking Kim Scott Radical Candor, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you you give you give people constructive feedback in private.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, how would you navigate addressing what happened in the room, but then also Also considering how to give someone direct feedback in a respectful, separate way.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't make someone feel attacked in the room.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think you've got so many variables you need to be managing in that scenario.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Great point.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if we were to summarize, like, okay, so what are the things, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So context is really important.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing your team is really important.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how safe is this space?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that's going to dictate a lot about what you feel, you know, trusting your gut and your instinct to know what the what the approach might be that lands, that would land with your team.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's choices, right?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it addressing it in the room?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is it addressing it outside of the room?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is it asking the person who brought it forward to sort of set the direction, right?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think in all of and and checking yourself, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Checking yourself quickly, like where am I at at this?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think probably mostly is being curious, really trying to stay in curiosity.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like even when we said when you feel like integrity, the integrity is very strong, there was still a curiosity that said, I'm just gonna check in.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna check in.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And did I, did I hear that correctly?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot to be thinking about in a in a fairly short period of time as the leader.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing that strikes me as a possibility for us, how useful would it be as a team to talk about how we collectively want to approach when things are said that someone's offended by?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you had that conversation in advance, there'd be less guessing to be done when it happens.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because you've already decided as a team, how do we as a collective want to approach when someone says something that feels like an attack, when someone says something that's biased, when someone says like because if you did that before any of those issues arose, you'd already have a collective agreement on the team how to tackle it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it wouldn't, the responsibility wouldn't lie solely with the leader.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Great point.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Great point.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well as always, I love our conversations, Alicia, and the and the willingness to just sort of jump into the the scary, deep, unknown, exploring the question, should I say something?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Say something.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: So things for leaders to be reflecting on between now and the next conversation.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And in the importance of the pause, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: The pause in that moment when you're struck by should I say something?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Importance of the pause.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Check in on yourself.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Trusting your gut, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like those, you've got to without the pause, you you don't have that that chance to kind of gather yourself, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And if you aren't sure, maybe pause a little longer.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right, my friend.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to pause before you lead.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for joining the Pause Before You Lead.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: If this conversation sparked something for you, share it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because more leaders need space to think clearly in the moments that matter.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Follow or subscribe so you don't miss an episode and let us know what's on your mind.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: We shape these conversations for you.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Before you move on to what's next, pause just for a moment.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And notice what might change if you led from here.