Latest / The Catholic Current / Synodal Slanders? (Fr. Kyle Schnippel) 6/23/26

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Synodal Slanders? (Fr. Kyle Schnippel) 6/23/26 · The Catholic Current

0:00
This is The Catholic Current, with Father Robert Metaig.
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It seems to me the adults have left the room, in terms of the sin, and you know the old
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Jesuit model for missionaries was, enter through their door, lead them through yours.
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Part two hasn't happened, though, has it?
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No, but the way that they're going at this, you know, you can't spell sin on it without
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sin, I guess.
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I mean, you could, but it doesn't look like the Vatican wants to.
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It's not surprising that they're asking for things that are either A, trendy, or B, might
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offer some hope of being relieved from their very terrible pain.
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Praised be Jesus Christ, this is Father Robert Metaig of the Society of Jesus, your daily
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host for The Catholic Current, where we bring Christ to the world, and the world to Christ.
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You're listening to us from the station of La Crosse Studios, your local radio station,
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and the iCatholic Radio mobile app, where we proclaim the fullness of truth with clarity
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and charity.
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As always, let's start with prayer.
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In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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Almighty God, through the intercession of St. Ignatius Loyola, we ask that you pour
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forth your Holy Spirit upon us, a spirit of discernment that might hear your voice and
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obey your command.
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In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, amen.
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Hey, friends, we know that one of the hot words in Catholic life these days is synodality,
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synodaling, being a synodal church, a new way of being church, and my goodness, there's
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a whole lot of listening.
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And of course, whenever bureaucracies are involved, there's a whole lot of paperwork.
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And we've been talking about the final report of Synodal Working Group No. 9, and here's
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the title of their final study.
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It's called Theological Criteria and Synodal Methodologies for Shared Discernment of Emerging
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Doctrinal, Pastoral, and Ethical Issues.
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I've talked about that already.
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We're going to be talking about it again.
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I want to focus on something in particular.
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There's a very fine Catholic apostolate called Courage and its auxiliary group, and Courage,
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and it serves people who experience same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria.
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I know the founder, Fr. John Harvey, the late great Fr. Harvey.
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I've worked with these folks.
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I've spoken at their meetings.
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They are an authentically Catholic apostolate, and what was said in the Synodal Working Group
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about Report Courage, they really threw some mud at Courage, and I said, the folks from
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Courage International, they need to speak up for themselves.
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So we're doing that right now.
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We have with us the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Courage International, Fr.
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Kyle Schnippel.
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Welcome to The Catholic Current.
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Thank you.
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It's good to be back.
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Fr.
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Kyle, it seems to me that Courage didn't get a fair shake.
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First of all, no one from your organization was invited to speak, and no one was consulted
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about what was said about your organization.
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Is that correct?
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Correct.
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Well, some of our members might have been involved in those really local parish-based
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Synod meetings that happened long ago.
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As far as at the main Synod that happened in Rome, none of our official leadership was
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invited to speak.
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No one from our organization was invited to be there, as were some other organizations,
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I'll say.
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Right.
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So it seems to me that as a matter of justice, and given the very public statements about
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enthusiasm for listening, you all weren't heard.
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You were talked about, but you also weren't given a chance to respond, which strikes me
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as unjust.
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So there were a couple of hot words thrown around in there that I want to begin to address.
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And one is reparative therapy.
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And in my experience, when talking about same-sex attraction, if you talk about reparative therapy,
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people become very animated.
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Can you explain what that is and whether courage is involved in it?
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Reparative therapy, in a sense, is like if you go through these certain steps of psychological
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therapy, of prayer, of whatever it is, then there's different groups outlining different
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things that if you go through these steps, then your same-sex attraction will go away,
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is one kind of a reparative therapy.
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It's repairing the attraction, I think, is what they would claim to be.
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Courage, while maybe early on in our history, might have, because even in the Catechism,
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it says the psychological genesis of same-sex attraction isn't really understood.
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It wasn't understood when the Catechism was written, when courage was first found.
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It's still not terribly well understood now.
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So courage doesn't support reparative therapy.
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We support conversion.
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Conversion towards Jesus is always the end goal of the Christian life, right?
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So that's the conversion we support.
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Courage isn't about if you go through these steps, then your gayness will go away.
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We've never been about that.
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Right.
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Because I know that sometimes folks in certain social groups kind of wink-wink, nudge-nudge,
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and, oh, you know what they're like.
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They want you to just pray the gay away, tee-hee-hee.
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But you're right.
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It is conversion to Christ, and conversion to Christ demands of absolutely everyone at
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all times, in every circumstance, an unbreakable commitment to chastity.
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And chastity is right use of your sexuality according to your state in life, and embedded
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in that is an exclusively heterosexual, monogamous, unbreakable view of the bond of marriage.
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And it seems to me that that's what is at stake.
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So the folks who wrote the Synodal Report, people who have been detractors of Fr. Harvey
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and courage for a good number of years, they seem to be rather mute, if not coy, about
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the universal call to chastity.
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Is that just my cynical eye?
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Am I looking in the wrong places?
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Or have you noticed that, too?
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I mean, based on the evidence that you see in the public sphere, I would say I would
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wholeheartedly agree with that statement, that they've been rather coy about the call
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to chastity and the freedom that the call to chastity entails, right?
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Like the end goal of that call to chastity is a deeper, integrated life, which brings
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us freedom in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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And so if you're living the life of sin, you're never going to have that freedom.
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Right.
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Now, I think part of the objection, I would imagine, is to say that acting on the same-sex
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attraction is by its very nature sinful.
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Isn't that really what's being contested right now?
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And we see that in the Working Document No. 9, etc., that we're going to have new insights,
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and these are the emerging issues.
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And I read the testimony of the folks whose testimony was in the appendices of the report,
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and it seems that, gosh, we've been misunderstanding human sexuality for all these centuries and
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millennia now, and we've got these astonishing new insights that's actually going to make
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same-sex acts somehow morally okay.
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Is that part of what's at issue here in current discussions?
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It seems like that's the issue, yeah, that there are agents within the church who want
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to promote that marriage.
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They want to promote a redefinition of marriage to two persons, absent that it's a male and
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a female.
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They want to redefine that marriage.
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One of the ends of marriage is procreation, is the generation of life.
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And no matter how hard you work, two men or two women cannot generate life together in
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the same way that a man and a woman can.
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Right, and it does seem to be rather obvious, and I published something in a Catholic World
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Report three years ago, we're going to put in the show notes, that says, before you start
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tinkering with philosophy and theology, there's some fundamental biology involved.
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Again, Father Harvey, who is a happy warrior and a great man, and the founder of Courage
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International, he said, if you understand human bodies and how they work, regardless
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of preferences, there really is only one sexual orientation, and that's heterosexual.
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And it's very obvious that male and female were made for each other, and they were made
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for the begetting of children.
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And we seem to be committed absolutely to obscuring that.
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As you read that report, I have to believe that your heart sank a bit, because it's got
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to be bad for the morale of your members.
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I mean, I have people at Courage International who were really heroic in their choice to
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convert to Christ, to acquire virtue, to live a sacramental life, to live a chaste life.
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It seems to me that all those heroic people were discounted in that document.
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Is that a fair assessment?
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Yes, and I think that's the view that Courage has taken of this, is like, our voice of heroic
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union of experience to Christ on the cross that we see day to day in our members was
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not included in this report.
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And instead, what was included in this report was like, was a dissing of that heroic striving
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for holiness.
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And not only a dissing, but like, really just like, flushing it down the toilet and saying
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that's not, the path of courage is not only, you know, it is like, is backwards, right?
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You know, it's like, that is what came across in this report, that the path of courage is
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imprisoning and is not authentic, is not freeing.
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Whereas this expression, you know, the report holds up this expression of same-sex partnerships
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is really, truly freeing.
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And we know, we know that that's been a lie, right?
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We've already talked about that, that that's the lie that the devil wants to sew into the
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life of the Church in this day and age.
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Right.
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It made me sad for very many reasons.
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You know, very often on the air I speak of the senior Catholic cadres, of the people
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who should really know better club.
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And that certainly includes the people who signed off on this document.
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I know there's some distribution and disputation about, oh, this is just a working document,
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we had nothing to do with it.
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Or, no, no, this has become wholly writ.
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But I think anyone with not only a familiarity with what the Church has always taught, but
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a commitment to that would say, hey, this report on it, at its best, is misleading and
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is going to besmirch the honor of people who are striving to answer Christ's universal
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call to chastity.
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Friends, when we come back, we're going to continue our conversation with Father Kyle.
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He is the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Courage International, an authentically
11:05
Catholic apostolate for people who experience same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria.
11:10
Remember, our rallying cry here at the Catholic Courant is Christus Mundo, Mundus Christo,
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My guest today, a returning guest, is Fr. Kyle Schnippel.
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He's Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Courage Apostolate,
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a Catholic apostolate that serves people who experience same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria.
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Father, in this Synodal Study Group report, Courage is mentioned by name.
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And like I said, I've worked with Courage for years.
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I knew Fr. Harvey, and a couple of things made me bristle.
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One of the people given testimony who tried out Courage and had an unsatisfactory experience
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said the meetings are secretive and hidden, and that the people there were lonely, hopeless, and often depressed.
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And I said, gosh, it makes it sound like this is Scientology or some sort of a cult,
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and you're all reading L. Ron Hubbard together.
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Help me to understand this.
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Well, of course our meetings are secret because we want to protect the anonymity of our members.
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And the integrity of the group as well, so that the way to get into a Courage meeting
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is to have an initial conversation with the Courage chaplain, the local Courage chaplain,
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because A, he wants to make sure, which is a priest, maybe a permanent deacon,
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he wants to make sure that you are coming to Courage for the right reasons,
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that here are the five goals of chastity, of prayer, of support, of fellowship, of good example role model,
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that you want to live up to those five goals to the best of your ability at the state of life that you're in
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while working towards embracing those goals at an ever higher level.
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And so we don't want someone to come into a Courage chapter that's, A, prowling and looking for a date,
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because that would destroy the chapter.
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Sure, of course.
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We don't want people to come into Courage chapters that have a political agenda,
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because we're not a political action committee, we're not an advocacy group,
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we're a companionship group, we're a group that walks with persons with this experience.
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So we don't list where meetings are held or the time that they're held,
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we list the chaplain because we want to protect the members themselves in walking towards Jesus.
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And I really, that comment about they're hopeless and they're alone, is there a loneliness?
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Yes, there is an inner loneliness because our hearts are restless until they rest in you, oh Lord, right?
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St. Augustine's great line.
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But what I see in the groups that I work with is that this is the first time that men in particular
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have these disinterested friendships that's called for in the catechism.
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And through those friendships, they find like a companionship towards Jesus in the healthiest way possible
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and in a way that I've not seen, like walking with others that you just don't see.
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And so is there loneliness?
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Like I think in that first couple times that new members come into a Courage meeting,
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yeah, they may experience that, but they also experience like this deep,
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they start to experience this deeper sense of friendship that is oriented towards Jesus,
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walking side by side towards Jesus, right?
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And I think that's the fulfillment of the longing that we have at the deep recesses of our hearts.
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Of course, I mean, ultimately it's a very human thing.
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I mean, it goes right back to Augustine,
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you made us for yourself, oh Lord, our hearts are restless until they rest in thee.
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And I spent a good number of years working for college students,
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and I said you won't be able to approach friendships or relationships of any kind
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with peace and freedom to the degree that God intends
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unless and until you give Christ every opportunity to be the first satisfaction of your heart.
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And then you can approach people with abundance and generosity
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rather than self-seeking or craving or asking people to fill an interior emptiness that only God can fill.
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And likewise, the call to chastity is universal because fallen human nature is imperious,
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it's impulsive, and to free people from that is a good thing.
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It's a gospel mandate to preach good news to the poor,
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to set the captives free.
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I often ask this, how did we get here, Father?
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You and I are talking about the universal call to chastity,
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including people experiencing same-sex attraction.
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How is it that that position has ended up on the defensive?
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Because it's hard.
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Really, I think that's the reality of it.
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It's that because it's hard.
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What was the line?
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It's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting.
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It's been found difficult and therefore not strong.
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Right, that's Chesterton.
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And it's hard.
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I fully embrace that it's a hard life.
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The life of the priesthood is hard.
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You and I can testify to that.
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There are days where it's very difficult.
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But yet, when we embrace the cross and the difficulty of the cross,
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we also find grace, we find purpose,
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we find a depth of meaning that you cannot find in any other way,
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sense, way, shape, or form.
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Right, and I think that I've been rereading some old Fulton Sheen
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recently, and stuff from the 20s and the 30s and the 40s.
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And in some ways, he was prescient,
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and he said that what's taking place in the West
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is to preach Christ without the cross.
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And there's no redemption there.
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There's the reduction of Christ to kind of our spiritual mascot
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for our political cause.
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And C.S. Lewis saw this too, what he called, you know,
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Christianity and, you know, Christianity in the present crisis,
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Christianity and spelling reform.
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So we have our a-priority political commitment,
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and then Christ comes along to approve that.
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So Christ is no longer our meaning and our measure,
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our standard and our king,
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but actually he's a buddy who gives validation to what we've chosen.
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I find that, well, it's monstrous.
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Let me shift a little bit.
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Let me go back to courage.
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I'll get off my soapbox here.
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I have to imagine that there were members of Courage International
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who read those reports, heard those things.
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That must have landed hard for them, didn't it?
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What was their response?
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You know, for so many of our members, there's this inner fatherhood.
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They have difficult relationships with their dads
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because their dads wanted something that these members,
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these men couldn't provide.
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And so, like, they're constantly looking for, like,
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am I accepted by my father?
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And so then that gets transferred to the courage chaplain
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because, A, that's why he's a priest, right?
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But then that gets transferred to the church,
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and we look for this, like, this inner, like,
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does the church see my suffering?
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Does the church see my struggle?
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Does the church see my experience?
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Does the church see me, right?
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And what I think came across in this report to them
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is that the church doesn't see me.
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I'm not of value to the church,
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whereas courage is trying to say, no, you're actually,
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you're at the heart of who the church is
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and who the church cares about.
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And your experience of the cross of Christ
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actually drives forward the church, right?
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So, like, with St. Paul, we can say, you know, like,
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I make up for what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ
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with my own sufferings, right?
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When we embrace that call of suffering,
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the church moves forward, you know, right?
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And so here's, I think, courage can be, like,
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an inner heartbeat of the church,
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and that was not acknowledged in this report,
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and I think that was so demoralizing to our members.
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I'm not even worth being mentioned or seen in this report.
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Right, and, you know, I mean, I know for sure
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that there are members, again, who made sacrifices,
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who decided to walk the hard road and carry the cross
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and live the demands of chastity.
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And you know what, if you're a human being
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and you're choosing to be chased by Christ's standards,
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there's going to be a cross,
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and there's going to be the experience of loneliness,
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and that is absolutely unavoidable in this valley of tears.
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And then there's also freedom, joy, and peace
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for those who persevere.
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It seemed to me that those struggles just don't count,
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that your membership were suckers,
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that they could have given in and joined the party
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a long time ago.
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That's how I imagine folks read that.
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Was that the experience of your membership at all,
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that they were just being dismissed as suckers,
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that all their effort was wasted?
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Yes, yes.
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Again, time and time again, I think that was just
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this whole experience of synodalities,
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that's been their experience of this.
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So it just re-hits those same wounds
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that they've had in their journey with Christ
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and their journey with the church time and time again.
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And I think that's what made me angry
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when I read this report.
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It's hitting those same wounds time and time again
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for our members who are heroic,
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and their voice is again not being brought forward.
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Right.
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And for all the talk about listening,
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there is, it seems that just an animal farm,
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all animals are equal, some are more equal than others.
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And in my observation in the synodal process,
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everybody gets listened to, not really,
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but some people get more listened to than others.
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It makes me sad because there are,
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I mean, I know members of Courage International.
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Their stories are inspiring.
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They can move you to tears.
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They can move you to sing the Te Deum.
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I'm going to ask you to speculate,
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we've only got about a minute and a half left here
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in this segment.
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I'm going to ask you to speculate.
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Why weren't Courage members included?
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Why wasn't the leadership of Courage consulted?
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It seems that the ear of the Holy Father,
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the previous Holy Father in particular,
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was dominated by our opponents, really.
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And I think that voice drownded out any voice
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that we attempted to contribute by Courage
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or friends of Courage or even proponents of Courage
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among the bishops, cardinals, and others who know us
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and support us, their voices were just drowned out
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by other voices that had a closer ear to the Holy Father,
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it seems like.
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Well, yeah.
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I mean, I've always said, you know,
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as soon as you involve humans,
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there's going to be disappointments
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and there's going to be frustration, etc., etc.
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So all that is true.
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You know, the synodal process, among other things,
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is certainly a human process.
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And I really do hope that if we're going to continue
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down this path, if, you know,
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the rallying cry is going to be inclusion
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and totos, totos, totos,
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that it actually include people who have chosen
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to answer Christ's universal call for chastity.
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And I want to hear the words universal call for chastity
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cross the lips of very many more people,
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including senior cadres of the people
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who should really know better club.
25:03
Friends, we come back to continue our conversation
25:05
with Father Kyle Schnuppel.
25:07
He is the chairman of the Board of Courage International,
25:10
authentic Catholic apostolate,
25:12
serving people who experience same-sex attraction
25:15
and gender dysphoria.
25:17
After the broadcast today, go to thestationofthecross.com,
25:20
get our resources list, download our audio podcast,
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where if you find audio, you can find us.
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Follow us on your favorite platform,
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write a five-star review.
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Please do stay with us.
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and the iCatholic Radio mobile app.
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Praise be Jesus Christ.
26:21
This is Father Robert McTague of the Society of Jesus,
26:23
your daily host for The Catholic Current,
26:25
where we bring Christ to the world and the world to Christ.
26:27
You're listening to us from the Station of the Cross studios,
26:29
your local radio station,
26:30
the iCatholic Radio mobile app,
26:32
where we proclaim the fullness of truth
26:34
with clarity and charity.
26:35
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And don't forget to mention the Station of the Cross.
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My guest today, my returning guest,
26:55
is Father Kyle Schnippel.
26:56
He's Chairman of the Board for Courage International.
26:58
An authentically Catholic apostolate
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for people who experience same-sex attraction
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or gender dysphoria.
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Father, I really want to set the record straight
27:08
for Courage International.
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I've worked with this group for years.
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I've met heroic members.
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I have great respect and affection
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for its late, great founder, Father John Harvey,
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a happy warrior and a real spiritual father.
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And I know there's also an auxiliary group
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called N-Courage for family and friends of people
27:30
who experience same-sex attraction
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and gender dysphoria.
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There are folks out there who are hurting
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that need help.
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What can Courage and N-Courage do for them?
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How does this all work?
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I think what Courage and N-Courage can do for them
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is offer them authentic pastoral accompaniment
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towards the cross.
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Especially on the N-Courage side,
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when a family member,
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when a family has a son or daughter
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who comes forward and says,
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I'm gay and you have to accept my girlfriend,
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a daughter.
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When a family member comes forward and says,
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I'm your daughter, but I want to be your son,
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that experience there is profoundly isolating.
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I don't know who I can talk to about this.
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And what Courage and N-Courage can do,
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what N-Courage in particular can do,
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is you're not alone in this experience.
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And here are other family members
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who have had that same experience
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and how they've helped walk through that.
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You can learn from their experience
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to navigate your experience.
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And Courage is the same thing.
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What I hear so often is,
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persons who come forward who have that experience
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of same-sex attraction,
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I don't want others to know that I have this
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and be involved in the church
28:44
because they'll judge me.
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So here's a place where,
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one of my Courage members, he said,
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we all know why we're in this room,
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so we don't have to talk about it
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and we can just be friends.
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And that breaks down that isolation
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and that loneliness,
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and it breaks down that sense of,
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I'm somehow different and unloved.
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Here I'm loved because Christ has redeemed me.
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And that's on both sides of that coin
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of Courage and N-Courage.
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I'm loved, and I have a path forward
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because people see me in this experience
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and love me in this experience,
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and I know that Jesus does too.
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There is, given the current cultural climate,
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shall we say,
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there is a certain social cost, isn't there,
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for someone to say that he experiences
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same-sex attraction
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and wants to answer Christ's universal call
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to chastity.
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Many Catholic groups,
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certainly many Catholic institutions
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or communities,
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wouldn't know what to do with them.
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Is that a fair statement?
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Agreed, yeah.
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There are many Catholic groups, as you know,
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that would say,
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Oh, great, that's awesome.
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Go be who you are, right?
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Which we know is a pathway to emptiness
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because I've heard that old story so many times
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versus, that's great,
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God loves you in this experience,
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and here's a path forward with that experience
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towards Jesus and towards fulfillment.
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And that's something that
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no lie will ever be able to answer that,
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versus Christ can, right?
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Christ can, you know?
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And I come back to, like,
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one of the COURAGE members
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talked about the day his wife
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found out that he not only looks at gay,
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at pornography,
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but that he looks at gay pornography.
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And he talked about, like,
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that was my worst day.
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Like, she should have left me.
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She didn't, to her credit.
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And she said, you get the help that you need.
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And that's what led him to COURAGE.
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And he said, like, now I realize how I pick up
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this experience of the cross,
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how I find Jesus in the midst of this experience,
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is how I work out my salvation
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in fear and trembling.
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And I'm like, wow, that's such a profound statement.
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Like, here is something that seeks to isolate
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that he's now used to be united deeper to Jesus.
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And that's, I think,
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the journey of the Christian life is that, I think.
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Yes, and I, you know,
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we preach Christ crucified.
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It has to come back to that.
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And where Christ crucified is found,
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Christ risen and victorious is also found.
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And my whole Jesuit life,
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I wanted to enter into that mystery
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and lead people into that mystery as well.
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And it seems to me that, you know,
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you do you deprives people of the opportunity
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to enter into that mystery.
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And we'll be held accountable
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if we remain silent in the presence of that failure.
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So Father, suppose someone goes to a COURAGE chaplain
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and says, hey, this has been my experience.
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This is what I've been up to.
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And it's not working for me.
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Is this all that there is?
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What's the next step for someone
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who's just approached a chaplain?
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I think the next step for someone
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that comes to a COURAGE chaplain is,
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A, let's walk through the five goals.
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Where are you on the five goals?
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So the five goals are,
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the first goal is chastity.
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According to my state of life,
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as the church teaches it.
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So if I'm married,
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that means I have relations solely with my spouse.
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For everybody else,
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it's this offering of sexual desire
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towards the Lord for freedom.
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Now, the call of chastity is empowered
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by the other four goals.
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So prayer and dedication.
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What am I spiritually reading?
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How am I serving others?
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How do I frequently attend
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and avail myself of the sacraments
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of reconciliation of the Holy Eucharist?
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Do I attend Mass on a regular basis?
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Do I have a spiritual director?
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All those things that are going to support
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the spiritual development of the individual
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to be able to live that call to chastity.
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Goals three and four are together,
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fellowship and support.
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So I often think of fellowship
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as in that small Christian community
33:05
that is present in COURAGE,
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where I can be who I am
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and people know who I am.
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And I have this fellowship
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and this sense of there's no secrets.
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There's no, you know,
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I am who I am and the Lord loves me in that
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and calls me forward.
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And that challenge of how...
33:24
What I really admire is
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when a COURAGE member comes in
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and talks about the struggles he had
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over the last week with pornography
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or masturbation or falling to sexual sins,
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other members of COURAGE really challenge him
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to like, okay, you know that's empty.
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Let's go. What led into it?
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Because their fellowship is so strong,
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iron sharpens iron,
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and so they sharpen each other
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and they hone each other.
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And I think then when we have that
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strong base of fellowship,
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then we can be the support of the Christian community.
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We can offer support to our brothers and sisters
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who are walking towards Christ,
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whether they have that experience
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of same-sex attraction or not.
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And we just want to be a part of that Christian community.
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That's the fourth goal.
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And the fifth goal, be a good example
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of a role model.
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I think if we all strove to be an example
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of what life is like in Christ,
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and we live that out in the world,
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what would our world be like?
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And it struck me really early on
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that the five goals of COURAGE
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are a great pathway
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for the Christian life,
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whether or not you have the experience
34:33
of same-sex attraction.
34:35
If we're striving to be Chase,
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we're striving to be a person of prayer,
34:39
find fellowship, support the Christian community,
34:41
and be a good example of a role model.
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If all of us are doing that,
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how the Church will be
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renewed in Christ Jesus,
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and we'll see those converts,
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the faith that we've seen
34:53
grow over the last couple years,
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we'll see those converts
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quadruple because
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holiness begets holiness, right?
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Yes. I want to go back
35:03
to the role
35:05
of sacramental confession.
35:07
I've been disturbed lately.
35:09
I've seen some younger
35:11
priests on YouTube
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say, well, you know,
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you don't really, really need
35:17
technically to
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go to a priest for sacramental confession
35:21
unless it's a mortal sin.
35:23
And well,
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we don't want to really,
35:27
really encourage people to have a habit
35:29
of frequent confession because
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it's a form of generosity or something.
35:33
I want to emphasize that
35:35
sacramental confession isn't just
35:37
juridical, that it's a
35:39
sacrament of healing
35:41
as well.
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And when people are healed,
35:45
they become free from
35:47
their compulsions and free
35:49
for Christ.
35:51
Can you address the
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importance of having a regular
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habit of confession for everyone
35:57
who wants to live a Chase life?
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And I would just, if people
36:01
question that, look at the catechism and the
36:03
fruits of frequent confession
36:05
is like, you become detached
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from sin. You desire
36:09
grace.
36:11
The habitual sins start to
36:13
decrease. You start to find that
36:15
inner freedom that is
36:17
Christ Jesus. And so,
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frequent and fervent reception of the
36:21
sacrament of confession, now,
36:23
I would say, weak is a minimum,
36:25
because we also want to grow
36:27
and resolve to not fall into that sin
36:29
and not use the
36:31
sacrament for scrupulosity.
36:33
But I think you see fruits
36:35
that come from people
36:37
coming to a fervent
36:39
and frequent sacrament of confession.
36:41
You see fruits of grace come from it.
36:43
Just in the same way, a fervent and frequent
36:45
reception of the sacrament of the Eucharist
36:47
has an impact in that person's life.
36:49
And so, in the same way it does
36:51
the sacrament of confession.
36:53
I have five parishes in
36:55
Dayton, Ohio, and
36:57
we offer confessions five days a week,
36:59
and we're always busy.
37:01
And so,
37:03
we've seen in the last four years,
37:05
our mass attendance is up
37:07
over 500 people per weekend.
37:09
Thanks be to God.
37:11
And I think the sacrament
37:13
of confession drives that.
37:15
I absolutely agree that
37:17
confession is integral
37:19
to the Christian life.
37:21
When I told seminarians,
37:23
I said, look, if you want to be a good
37:25
confessor, you have to start
37:27
by being a good penitent.
37:29
You have to be convinced
37:31
of your own desperate life and
37:33
death need for the sacrament
37:35
of confession and the unique graces that
37:37
it offers, because that will give
37:39
you the generosity
37:41
and the inspiration to
37:43
make confession available
37:45
to people
37:47
when and as they need it.
37:49
And for a priest who downplays
37:51
the urgency of confession,
37:53
I have to wonder
37:55
what the role of confession is in his own
37:57
life, but that will call for speculation.
37:59
Father, we've got about two minutes
38:01
left here in our conversation
38:03
today. Talk about the role of
38:05
Encourage as well, please.
38:07
Encourage is the partner organization
38:09
for Courage for family members who have a loved
38:11
one who's sort of active in the lifestyle,
38:13
experiencing that transgender,
38:15
and moving down that transgender path.
38:17
And they just
38:19
need that accompaniment of
38:21
how do we handle holidays?
38:23
How do we handle family gatherings?
38:25
How do we handle the wedding?
38:27
When my son
38:29
wants to get married to his same-sex partner,
38:31
what do we do?
38:33
Encourage is a place to find
38:35
that support where others have
38:37
walked that path.
38:39
Typically, Courage meetings
38:41
are weekly. Encourage meetings
38:43
typically are monthly.
38:45
Some frequency may
38:47
depend on the local chapter,
38:49
but it's
38:51
just because the needs are a little bit different.
38:53
But one of the beautiful things
38:55
I love about our conference in July
38:57
is that we bring Courage
38:59
and Encourage members together, and there's
39:01
so much healing that happens in those moments.
39:03
Yes.
39:05
I can testify to that as well.
39:07
I've spoken at regional meetings
39:09
and national meetings and so on,
39:11
and it really is
39:13
a very great grace.
39:15
Friends, if you're experiencing same-sex
39:17
attraction or gender dysphoria,
39:19
or you are family or friends with those who do,
39:21
there is hope.
39:23
There is healing.
39:25
The Catholic Church has very, very
39:27
good news for you, offers you
39:29
peace and healing and freedom
39:31
and liberation, and offers
39:33
you fellowship as well.
39:35
You don't have to walk the hard road
39:37
alone, and you don't have to
39:39
take ungodly detours.
39:41
Fr. Kyle Schnippel of Courage International,
39:43
God bless your very good work,
39:45
and I'm grateful for your time today.
39:47
Thank you. Thanks for the invite. Appreciate it.
39:49
I'm Jesuit Fr. Robert McTague, your
39:51
host every day of the Catholic Courage. You want to stay with us
39:53
for the rest of the hour. Coming up
39:55
next, it's a timely Tuesday. You know what
39:57
that means? The next segment is you and
39:59
me sharing timely thoughts,
40:01
reflecting on what we've heard today. And believe
40:03
me, I have a lot
40:05
to say. After the broadcast today,
40:07
go to thestationofthecross.com, get
40:09
our resources list, download our
40:11
audioist podcast. The resources list
40:13
today will be extensive.
40:15
I've been talking about this and writing about this
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and speaking about this for a
40:19
very long time. I have lots to
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offer for that.
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Take this audio
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and take it to your family and friends.
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Together, let's take it to the whole world.
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We can do it with you. We cannot
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do it without you. Let's do this
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good work together. Back in just two
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minutes, please do stay with us.
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Praise be Jesus Christ. This is Father
41:23
Robert McTigge of the Society of Jesus,
41:25
your daily host for The Catholic Current,
41:27
where we bring Christ to the world and the world
41:29
to Christ. You're listening to us from the station
41:31
of The Cross Studios, your local radio station
41:33
and the iCatholic Radio mobile app
41:35
and we proclaim the fullness of truth
41:37
glory and charity. Hey, friends,
41:39
here it is, the last segment of a timely Tuesday.
41:41
You know what that means, you and me sharing
41:43
timely thoughts, reflecting on
41:45
what we've heard today. My guest today, my returning
41:47
guest was Father Kyle
41:49
Schnippel of Courage International.
41:51
Courage International is a
41:53
robustly Catholic
41:55
apostolate that serves people
41:57
who experience same-sex attraction
41:59
and gender dysphoria, and
42:01
it's aided by a group called
42:03
Encourage, and it's for family and friends
42:05
of the first group.
42:07
And I know that Courage
42:09
International got slapped recently
42:11
in a synodal document, and I think that
42:13
was intrinsically unjust, and I was glad
42:15
that Father Kyle was able to
42:17
join us to give us the straight dope on what's
42:19
going on with Courage.
42:21
And I've gotten a lot of things in my
42:23
inbox recently. I, you know,
42:25
June in the Catholic
42:27
calendar is the month of the Sacred
42:29
Heart. In the world, it's another
42:31
kind of month. And I know there
42:33
have been large Catholic
42:35
confabulations, shall
42:37
we say, emphasis on the word
42:39
fabulous, for people
42:41
who experience same-sex attraction
42:43
and gender dysphoria,
42:45
who have decided not to work with
42:47
Courage International, but to
42:49
work with other groups. And I know that
42:51
prominent American cardinals
42:53
have published
42:55
letters that were rather
42:57
enthusiastic
42:59
about other approaches
43:01
to
43:03
postulates for people experiencing
43:05
same-sex attraction that were
43:07
not in the mode of Courage
43:09
International. Now Courage International,
43:11
founded by Father John Harvey,
43:13
insisted that everyone,
43:15
everyone, everyone, or if you will,
43:17
todos, todos, todos,
43:19
is called
43:21
to chastity.
43:23
And one of the things that I've
43:25
noticed about
43:27
groups that are not Courage
43:29
International is
43:31
they seem to be modest,
43:33
coy,
43:35
abstemious
43:37
regarding statements
43:39
in favor of
43:41
chastity.
43:43
And I just have to wonder,
43:45
I just have
43:47
to wonder why that is.
43:49
I would ask my students, what might a
43:51
reasonable man infer?
43:53
Now, I have to be
43:55
careful in whatever I talk about these issues.
43:57
I have to take a deep breath
43:59
and say,
44:01
I am not a hater.
44:03
I am not an advocate
44:05
of violence.
44:07
I don't want to throw rocks at
44:09
anyone. And unlike
44:11
misunderstanders of the religion of peace,
44:13
I'm not inclined to throw anyone
44:15
off a tower or hang them from the public
44:17
square from a utility crane
44:19
either.
44:21
I don't wish anyone ill.
44:23
I want
44:25
everyone to live and die
44:27
in a state of grace, become a saint,
44:29
and enjoy the beatific vision.
44:31
That's what I want for everyone.
44:33
I think that's what every
44:35
Catholic should want for everyone.
44:37
And I know that some things
44:39
facilitate
44:41
living and dying as a saint,
44:43
and some things
44:45
don't.
44:47
And I put myself in very good
44:49
company with the scriptures and sacred
44:51
tradition when I say that
44:53
failure in
44:55
chastity
44:57
breaks friendship
44:59
with God.
45:01
And that's why
45:03
we have to insist that
45:05
everyone, regardless
45:07
of preference or attraction,
45:09
is called to chastity.
45:11
And again, I think
45:13
of my friends in Courage International
45:15
who have lived
45:17
sacrificially
45:19
difficult lives
45:21
in pursuit of virtue,
45:23
in pursuit of chastity,
45:25
striving mightily to remain within a state
45:27
of grace, and finding
45:29
healing, peace, and freedom.
45:31
I just wonder
45:33
what goes through their mind
45:35
as they look through their years
45:37
and decades of struggle,
45:39
their
45:41
conviction of
45:43
having chaste friendships, etc., etc.,
45:45
and then looking at these
45:47
rather fabulous events elsewhere
45:49
that take place in churches.
45:51
I have to wonder,
45:53
do they think that they're
45:55
discounted?
45:57
Do they think that they've been suckers
45:59
and are being dismissed?
46:01
And I have to wonder
46:03
the enthusiasts who especially
46:05
were at fabulous events
46:07
this past weekend,
46:09
what would they say, too,
46:11
and perhaps more significantly, what would they say about
46:13
those folks who live
46:15
the demands that Courage International
46:17
rightly acknowledges as
46:19
universal?
46:21
One cardinal
46:23
recently wrote in a letter, said,
46:25
Making a greater effort to listen
46:27
to people's faith journeys
46:29
by recognizing evangelization
46:31
as a process
46:33
enables people to grow in the relationship with
46:35
Jesus Christ in solidarity with other members,
46:37
etc., etc.,
46:39
and we're going to imitate the early
46:41
Christians who were determined
46:43
that no one felt left out
46:45
or was left behind.
46:47
And I want to say, oh really?
46:49
Oh really?
46:51
Does that include your eminence
46:53
to people in your archdiocese
46:55
who want to pray in Latin?
46:57
Who want to pray
46:59
in the manner of their ancestors?
47:01
Are they
47:03
not left out?
47:05
Not left behind?
47:07
How much
47:09
time have you
47:11
spent listening to
47:13
their faith journey?
47:15
How much time
47:17
have you accompanied them
47:19
in a process
47:21
of evangelization?
47:23
Or are there some people that
47:25
you would not want to be seen with
47:27
or photographed with?
47:29
I just wonder.
47:31
I just wonder.
47:33
Friends, we're at a crossroads
47:35
and we have some hard
47:37
decisions to make.
47:39
I mean, very often, my years
47:41
as a priest, as a professor
47:43
working with college students,
47:45
and I was told
47:47
with confidence and a lot of conviction
47:49
that the church needs to
47:51
change its teaching about
47:53
x, y, and z.
47:55
And the church changing
47:57
its teaching is very different
47:59
from the development of
48:01
doctrine. The development
48:03
of doctrine says, this is what the church
48:05
has always taught, and now
48:07
we see its implications
48:09
in a richer and deeper
48:11
way. That's
48:13
development of doctrine.
48:15
Development of the doctrine is
48:17
not, we used to
48:19
believe this, but now
48:21
we believe that.
48:23
It just isn't.
48:25
It just isn't.
48:27
And I think of St.
48:29
Peter Canisius of the Society of
48:31
Jesus, a doctor of the
48:33
church,
48:35
who said that the sin of Sodom is such
48:37
an offense against the orders of nature
48:39
and grace that it cannot
48:41
be sufficiently
48:43
execrated, in other words, sufficiently
48:45
hated in this life or
48:47
the next. That's a
48:49
saint and a doctor of the church.
48:51
What do we say
48:53
to him? More significantly,
48:55
why did
48:57
he teach what he taught? I go back
48:59
to the students recommending
49:01
that the church's teaching
49:03
be taught. I said, look, before you tinker with
49:05
theology,
49:07
you have to deal with philosophy.
49:09
Human bodies mean
49:11
something. Human bodies
49:13
as male and female mean
49:15
something. And one of the
49:17
ways we know that human bodies
49:19
as male and female mean something
49:21
is the way that they were designed.
49:23
So before you even start
49:25
tinkering with philosophy,
49:27
you've got to come to terms
49:29
with biology. It is
49:31
really obvious that
49:33
bodies were meant to do some
49:35
things and not others.
49:37
Almost as if there
49:39
was an intelligent design
49:41
behind it all.
49:43
And my fear is that
49:45
obvious facts of
49:47
biology, perennial
49:49
principles of philosophy,
49:51
and unchangeable teachings
49:53
of the Catholic Church Christ founded
49:55
are being swept
49:57
under the rug. And that's
49:59
not good for souls.
50:01
I'm Jesuit Father Robert McTague, your host
50:03
here every day of the Catholic Current.
50:05
After the broadcast today, go to thestationofthecross.com
50:07
get our resources list,
50:09
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50:11
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50:19
get the attention they deserve.
50:21
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50:23
we give to you. Together, let's take it around
50:25
the world. We can do it with you, we cannot
50:27
do it without you. Let's do this
50:29
good work together. To the intercession
50:31
of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may mighty God bless you
50:33
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
50:35
Go in peace, and please do pray for me,
50:37
for I am a sinner.
50:59
Amen.