Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan : Shadows of Abuse - Behind the Murder of Martha Guzman

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan : Shadows of Abuse - Behind the Murder of Martha Guzman · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. It's been said that
0:21
Speaker 1: the most precious thing that any of us possess is time.
0:26
Speaker 1: You can't add it to your life. I suppose you
0:30
Speaker 1: can waste it, but it's something that you can never
0:33
Speaker 1: get back. We measure our lives by the clock. How
0:38
Speaker 1: long do I have to get to work? How long
0:40
Speaker 1: before I don't know my favorite program comes on? How
0:43
Speaker 1: much longer is this lecture going to last? When it
0:47
Speaker 1: comes to my students at college. But we take its measure.
0:51
Speaker 1: We look at the clock on the wall. Perhaps we
0:53
Speaker 1: look at our phones constantly. There's always kind of an awareness,
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Speaker 1: isn't there? But I want to give you a specific
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Speaker 1: time today, specific time that involves the life of an
1:04
Speaker 1: eleven year old little girl. That specific time is roughly
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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. That's eighteen hundred seconds. Think about that, just
1:14
Speaker 1: for a moment. A life that has been lived from
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Speaker 1: birth until the age of eleven, and then within a
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Speaker 1: thirty minute window, she is no more. Today we're going
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Speaker 1: to talk about one of the most gruesome murders that
1:31
Speaker 1: we've covered in sometime. We're going to talk about the
1:34
Speaker 1: butchering of an eleven year old girl in Miami, Marthakuseman,
1:38
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body.
1:41
Speaker 2: Bags, Dave.
1:46
Speaker 1: How frequently do you look at the clock? I mean
1:48
Speaker 1: everything you do. I don't see how you do everything
1:50
Speaker 1: you do because you work with Nancy Grace and my lord,
1:54
Speaker 1: the stuff that she has to do. It's so the
1:57
Speaker 1: material is so dense, it moves so quickly. I'm not
1:59
Speaker 1: going to say I'm an afterthought, but you know, compared
2:02
Speaker 1: to Nancy, I move at a glacial pace, and I can't.
2:06
Speaker 1: I know, you spent a lot of time looking at
2:08
Speaker 1: a clock, don't you trying to do the next thing
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Speaker 1: in your life?
2:11
Speaker 3: Everything? And it's one of the weirdest things about being
2:14
Speaker 3: married to somebody in the media is the spouse either
2:18
Speaker 3: has to understand that life is built on a clock
2:23
Speaker 3: or you can't be together. It really is that simple,
2:25
Speaker 3: because the reality is I live on a clock. You
2:29
Speaker 3: live on a clock too, with classes and schedules, and
2:32
Speaker 3: you're booked on every show known to mankind. If there's
2:34
Speaker 3: a forensic, if there's a drop of blood somewhere, hey
2:38
Speaker 3: called Joe Scott Morgan. It's pretty cool that is that way.
2:41
Speaker 3: But you're right time is precious.
2:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm not complaining about that, But you're right,
2:46
Speaker 1: Tom is precious, and it is I don't know if
2:48
Speaker 1: we can call it a commodity. I actually think it is. Look,
2:51
Speaker 1: I can tell you that from a life having been
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Speaker 1: lived spent with the dead as I have, it's right
2:58
Speaker 1: in my face. I use it relative to time since death.
3:02
Speaker 1: When was the last time someone took their medication? How
3:04
Speaker 1: long did this type of injury take in order for
3:07
Speaker 1: someone to die? When was the last time they were
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Speaker 1: seen alive? But from a more philosophical standpoint, I look
3:18
Speaker 1: at a body that's laying there before me, and I
3:21
Speaker 1: think this is an example of a clock stopping and
3:26
Speaker 1: no one saw it coming.
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Speaker 3: You don't think of an eleven year old as dying
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Speaker 3: a heinous way and then having the person that perpetrated
3:35
Speaker 3: the crime being so cowardly as to try to blame
3:39
Speaker 3: it on the eleven year old victim, which is exactly
3:42
Speaker 3: what happened with Martha Gouseman at eleven years old. The
3:46
Speaker 3: question was it suicide or murder? I'm not kidding, that
3:49
Speaker 3: was a real question. But Joe, as we take a
3:52
Speaker 3: look at some of these not even all, just some
3:56
Speaker 3: of the injuries on Martha Gouseman, the pain level alan
4:00
Speaker 3: would have been prevented her from doing anything else. I'm wondering,
4:04
Speaker 3: how what does it take to inflict this type of
4:09
Speaker 3: carnage on someone. I don't know if that's the right
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Speaker 3: term or not.
4:13
Speaker 1: Really a lot to examine in this case. Day, But
4:15
Speaker 1: back to something you said deflection in this particular case
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Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint, the little eleven year old who
4:23
Speaker 1: is butchered in this case, I don't know any other
4:25
Speaker 1: way to really put it. How is it that you
4:28
Speaker 1: assigned blame to an eleven year old. What we have
4:31
Speaker 1: come to find out is that the perpetrator in this case,
4:36
Speaker 1: he claimed that this young girl had a history of
4:43
Speaker 1: self inflicting cuts or self harm. And for folks out
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Speaker 1: there that are not really aware of what that means
4:52
Speaker 1: is that many times individuals get so involved, I think
4:58
Speaker 1: in that space between their ears and they're grieving, I
5:02
Speaker 1: think internally they're dealing with emotional pain, sadness, they've got
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Speaker 1: anger that's going on, maybe they're stressed out, and sometimes
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Speaker 1: they begin to inflict non suicidal injuries upon themselves. And
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Speaker 1: I've seen these manifested in cases that wind up turning
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Speaker 1: into suicides. And you'll see histories of these where you
5:25
Speaker 1: can actually begin to read old scars on the body.
5:29
Speaker 1: These kind of you call them superficial, but many times
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Speaker 1: they'll have these deep scratches, for instance, on their wrists,
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Speaker 1: on the backs of their legs, where they're taking an
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Speaker 1: item like the tip of a knife blade and they're
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Speaker 1: just kind of dragging it along. And it's unknown what
5:46
Speaker 1: type of relief I think that they get from those
5:50
Speaker 1: stressors that are in their life. But there is a
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Speaker 1: thread that runs through this behavior where the idea of
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Speaker 1: inflicted self pain I think numbs them to the pain
6:03
Speaker 1: that they're feeling internally. And for an investigator, when you
6:08
Speaker 1: have this idea that's put forward that yet this young
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Speaker 1: girl who's only eleven would begin to harm herself in
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Speaker 1: this way and then it's going to escalate to this
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Speaker 1: kind of butchery. You look at what you're seeing the scene,
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Speaker 1: you're saying, Wow, this goes way beyond anything that I
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Speaker 1: could imagine that she's kind of superficially doing. You're taking
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Speaker 1: like a leap, You've jumped over an intermediate step here.
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Speaker 1: When you're talking about, say, for instance, maybe she would
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Speaker 1: try an attempted suicide. Now you've gone to this area
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Speaker 1: where she's inflicted so much damage to your body that
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Speaker 1: it can't be explained. I think one of the really
6:46
Speaker 1: important things here, Dave is try to understand her home life,
6:50
Speaker 1: what was going on with her.
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Speaker 3: Well, this is one of those scenarios that plays itself
6:55
Speaker 3: out in homes across the United States of America. We
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Speaker 3: have eleven year old Martha goose Man, whose mother, Marie Alvaringa,
7:03
Speaker 3: and Miguel Rui's Lobo. They had been involved in a
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Speaker 3: relationship for long enough time that they actually lived together
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Speaker 3: for a while as a family unit. You had, you know, mom,
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Speaker 3: the stepdad, and Martha right there in the mix. But
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Speaker 3: home life was chaotic. Home life was filled with alcohol,
7:23
Speaker 3: It was filled with physical abuse, verbal abuse. It was
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Speaker 3: not a happy, peaceful home life. And you know, it's amazing, Joe,
7:33
Speaker 3: how children can see through to the truth in relationships
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Speaker 3: a lot quicker than a lot of adults because we
7:40
Speaker 3: sugarcoat things. We try to balance out the pros and
7:43
Speaker 3: the cons and what's good and bad, and what her
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Speaker 3: mother couldn't see Martha could. Martha could see crystal clear
7:50
Speaker 3: that this man Miguel Rui's Lobo was not good for them.
7:54
Speaker 3: He was not good to her mother. He wasn't good
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Speaker 3: to her, and Martha made that no own to her mother. Martha,
8:02
Speaker 3: at eleven years old, convinced her adult mother this guy's
8:06
Speaker 3: bad news. So finally Martha's mom said get out, get out,
8:11
Speaker 3: and he thought getting out. He didn't want to leave
8:14
Speaker 3: getting a place to go first of all, but he
8:17
Speaker 3: did leave, and he had been gone for a couple
8:19
Speaker 3: of months. That's what makes this so traumatic. On top
8:23
Speaker 3: of how bad it is, there's an additional level of
8:26
Speaker 3: bad Joe. We've got an eleven year old girl that
8:29
Speaker 3: her mom makes a great decision for me. I'm sure
8:31
Speaker 3: you know what. I bet I'm Maria felt so good.
8:33
Speaker 3: I bet mom felt so good about this decision. Our
8:36
Speaker 3: life is moving forward. There was a lot of there's
8:39
Speaker 3: still chaos, but it wasn't overwhelming to her family, and
8:42
Speaker 3: her daughter wasn't upset about it like it had been.
8:45
Speaker 1: You get this one element out of the environment, the boyfriend.
8:48
Speaker 1: I'm never a fan of the boyfriend. In this circumstance,
8:52
Speaker 1: when you've got a single mother, she's got this young
8:54
Speaker 1: girl she's raising, it creates a very unstable environment many
8:59
Speaker 1: times when there's no commitment on the part of the
9:01
Speaker 1: mail perhaps and he's abusing them and emotionally abusing them
9:05
Speaker 1: from what could be surmised. You know, they lived in
9:08
Speaker 1: this little apartment in Little Havana in Miami, which Little
9:12
Speaker 1: Havannah is a really cool place if you've never been there.
9:15
Speaker 1: It's a neat place to go and see the old
9:17
Speaker 1: guy's playing Domino's and watching them hand roll cigars and
9:21
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. I love it down there. But
9:23
Speaker 1: you know, they lived in this environment for this period
9:26
Speaker 1: of time. And what is really heartbreaking about this, I
9:30
Speaker 1: think at least, is that we know that there was
9:35
Speaker 1: evil that was lurking just around the corner in this case,
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Speaker 1: and the mother of Martha actually went to the court
9:45
Speaker 1: and asked for restraining order, and of course, as in
9:49
Speaker 1: many cases, it was not granted. Writers throw around the
10:12
Speaker 1: term blood bath with some frequency. It's been used as
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Speaker 1: a literary device for years and years. I can tell you,
10:19
Speaker 1: as I have told my listeners before, sharp horse injuries
10:23
Speaker 1: are the single most bloody thing you can work as
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Speaker 1: an investigator at a scene, and blood tells a lot
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Speaker 1: at the scene. The tough thing, Dave, is that many
10:35
Speaker 1: times blood can obscure things upon your initial viewing. Sometimes
10:40
Speaker 1: you're not going to get all of the information that
10:43
Speaker 1: you need to do an assessment because blood's kind of
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Speaker 1: blocking the way. It'll tell a story, but sometimes it'll
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Speaker 1: mask things.
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Speaker 3: Joe, when we set the table here to understand what happened,
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Speaker 3: and you mentioned all the blood because a knife was
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Speaker 3: used in this attack. But I don't know if you're aware, Joe,
11:00
Speaker 3: and I don't know that I pointed it out in
11:02
Speaker 3: looking at this, but Miguel Rui's Lobo was not a
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Speaker 3: small man. He was six feet four inches tall and
11:09
Speaker 3: two hundred and twenty pounds. When Martha, he knew Martha
11:13
Speaker 3: would be at home alone because he knew their schedule.
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Speaker 3: He knew Mom would be gone, Martha would be home alone,
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Speaker 3: and so he shows up at the door. You mentioned
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Speaker 3: a minute ago that Mom had filed for restraining order,
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Speaker 3: but it was denied, so kind of assuming there was
11:27
Speaker 3: a lot of negativity here.
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Speaker 1: But somehow he actually knows the location of a hidden key, Dave.
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Speaker 1: He actually knew the location to a hidden key that
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Speaker 1: he recovered. And you know what, Dave, this can be
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Speaker 1: appreciated on a surveillance tape from outside the apparent apartment.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, they had to identify when did it take place. Okay,
11:50
Speaker 3: just so you know that mom didn't get home till
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Speaker 3: about two twenty eight that afternoon, and we have on video,
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Speaker 3: we have Miguel Rui's Lobo at the door.
12:01
Speaker 1: Within the details. As an investigator, many times that's where
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Speaker 1: the answer lies. And this is a good point here,
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Speaker 1: I think, because you're trying to understand this, how do
12:11
Speaker 1: you get access to this? And one of the points
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Speaker 1: that you brought out a few moments ago. Give me
12:16
Speaker 1: that number again for his.
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Speaker 3: Size six twenty.
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Speaker 1: That's like the size light. But he could with that
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Speaker 1: kind of size, he could be a linebacker in the
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Speaker 1: NFL sixty four to twenty from the autopsy, Dave, this
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Speaker 1: little eleven year old girl. And when I say little,
12:33
Speaker 1: pay attention to that, because Dave, she was only four
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Speaker 1: foot eight and weighed at the time of her autopsy
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Speaker 1: sixty pounds day sixty pounds. So this guy has got
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Speaker 1: access via key that he knew was hidden. He comes
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Speaker 1: in and what's she going to say?
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Speaker 2: What she could?
12:51
Speaker 1: Can you imagine having this raging bull come in at
12:54
Speaker 1: you at that age.
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Speaker 3: You know, one of the things that was shown in
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Speaker 3: court was the fact that a neighbor's video camera, surveillance
13:03
Speaker 3: camera did seek Miguel Rui's logo approaching the apartment at
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Speaker 3: ten twenty eight am, and he left the apartment at
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Speaker 3: eleven am. Now, Mom didn't get home until two twenty eight,
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Speaker 3: and no one else enters between the time here, so
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Speaker 3: we actually know I don't know another way to explain
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Speaker 3: how somebody else went in there and did this. Now,
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Speaker 3: the idea of what Mom walked into is still shocking
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Speaker 3: to me. As Mom walks in at two twenty eight
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Speaker 3: in the afternoon, she has met with a sight of
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Speaker 3: destruction of her child. Her daughter, her baby at eleven
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Speaker 3: years old, has been so hurt, so damaged. He slashed
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Speaker 3: her throat and tried to stage it to look like
13:52
Speaker 3: a suicide. I don't know if he really thought it
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Speaker 3: would work. To blame this on the child just boggles
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Speaker 3: my mind.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that he's going to blame this on
14:03
Speaker 1: self harm is really astounding to me. And to back
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Speaker 1: up just a moment, when the mother arrives back home, now,
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Speaker 1: remember just let's set the table here just for a second.
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Speaker 1: Peace is settled upon this apartment. Again, he's out of
14:19
Speaker 1: the picture, Dave, He's out of the picture now. Granted
14:22
Speaker 1: she couldn't get the restraining order, and this psychopath has
14:26
Speaker 1: shown back up, and she's not there to protect her daughter,
14:29
Speaker 1: protect her daughter. Her daughter's eleven years old. I was
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Speaker 1: staying at home, I think, by myself when I was eight.
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Speaker 1: You can imagine that in today's times. But to think
14:39
Speaker 1: that your life is back on track, You're going to
14:41
Speaker 1: make a better life for you and your daughter, and
14:44
Speaker 1: to walk in to this horror show that the mother
14:48
Speaker 1: walks into and when she initially stated what she saw,
14:53
Speaker 1: it came out in Spanish, and essentially what she saw
14:57
Speaker 1: lying curled in a fetal position on the floor was
15:00
Speaker 1: her baby girl. And Dave, this's knife that you had
15:04
Speaker 1: mentioned just a moment ago, was buried in her neck,
15:08
Speaker 1: buried in her neck, sticking out, protruding, and there's blood everywhere.
15:13
Speaker 1: And you can imagine, I can imagine, at least because
15:15
Speaker 1: I've seen it happen. There's a thing within humans where
15:20
Speaker 1: we have to confirm things through touch. It's very basic,
15:24
Speaker 1: rudimentary need that we have. It's a tactile thing. And
15:28
Speaker 1: what you'll see many times with these events that are
15:32
Speaker 1: just the most horrific thing you can see. When you're
15:35
Speaker 1: interviewing the individual that has first made contact or found
15:39
Speaker 1: the individual, particularly like a parent, they will be covered
15:42
Speaker 1: themselves in blood. They'll have it on the hands, all
15:45
Speaker 1: the contact surfaces. They'll embrace the child. They don't care.
15:49
Speaker 1: It's almost like they can't see the blood for that
15:52
Speaker 1: moment in time. All they see is this child that
15:56
Speaker 1: they have done their best with, that they've attempted to
15:58
Speaker 1: take care of all of these years, and they are
16:01
Speaker 1: just super saturated with But can you imagine not being
16:04
Speaker 1: able to see that what you're seeing is your lifeless
16:07
Speaker 1: baby and you're trying at every turn to breathe life
16:11
Speaker 1: back into them. And she even went so far as
16:13
Speaker 1: to say that she flung the knife aside. So here
16:16
Speaker 1: we have this mother that is bearing witness to this.
16:19
Speaker 1: She wraps her hand around the handle of that knife
16:23
Speaker 1: that's buried to the hilt in this baby's neck, and
16:26
Speaker 1: she throws it to the side because she knows that
16:29
Speaker 1: this is what's created the injury, and she's trying to
16:34
Speaker 1: revive her daughter. And she was able to call nine
16:37
Speaker 1: to eleven, but by this time, Dave, it's too late.
16:40
Speaker 1: I would imagine that considering these injuries, Dave, that the
16:44
Speaker 1: child had little or no blood left.
16:47
Speaker 2: In her body.
17:07
Speaker 1: There are certain things that stay with you when you
17:10
Speaker 1: see the dead, because those elements, beyond the trauma that
17:15
Speaker 1: maybe they sustained, it gives you an insight into their life,
17:20
Speaker 1: the life that had previously been vital, that was being lived.
17:24
Speaker 1: And in Martha Gooseman's case, life rest in her fingernails.
17:30
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds like an odd comment, but
17:34
Speaker 1: for those of you that are parents of young girls,
17:37
Speaker 1: they cross over this threshold, you know, where they're no
17:39
Speaker 1: longer babies. They're your baby. You don't want them to
17:43
Speaker 1: grow up, but they have this desire to paint their fingernails.
17:47
Speaker 1: I remember when my daughter was that age, and the
17:50
Speaker 1: first time I saw her with painting fingernails, I was thinking,
17:52
Speaker 1: oh Lord help me. But you know, with Martha, her
17:55
Speaker 1: fingernails were painted green. It was a color that she chose.
17:59
Speaker 1: Perhaps maybe her mom sat down with her and said,
18:02
Speaker 1: maybe I'm going to give you a manicure, and maybe
18:05
Speaker 1: she decided to paint her fingernails for the first time,
18:08
Speaker 1: or maybe Martha got the green fingernail polish and said,
18:13
Speaker 1: when mom comes home, I'm going to show her what
18:15
Speaker 1: I did. But there they were, and the medical examiner
18:18
Speaker 1: actually examined those fingernails and made note of it in
18:21
Speaker 1: their autopsy report.
18:22
Speaker 3: When looking at this, I think about mom coming in shocked,
18:27
Speaker 3: she grabs a knife right out of her daughter's neck
18:30
Speaker 3: throws it. Does that actually damage the injury when you're
18:35
Speaker 3: trying to figure out what happened to place it all together,
18:38
Speaker 3: because I know you kind of have to put together
18:40
Speaker 3: a timeline of the injuries and removing it like that,
18:44
Speaker 3: does that cause problems later?
18:46
Speaker 1: It's an excellent question. Our preference would be a weapon
18:50
Speaker 1: stay in place, because what that does for us is
18:53
Speaker 1: that we and I say us, in the medical legal community,
18:56
Speaker 1: as horrific as this is, the body would come in
18:59
Speaker 1: to medical Examiner's office in this case down in Dade
19:02
Speaker 1: County and you would, ideally you would like to take
19:05
Speaker 1: an X ray. And we've talked about X rays before,
19:08
Speaker 1: but just so people understand again, you take what are
19:11
Speaker 1: called ap which is straight on looking down on the body,
19:15
Speaker 1: and then you take lateral, which is self explanatory. You
19:18
Speaker 1: take one from the side, and if you take those
19:20
Speaker 1: X rays you can get an idea of the position
19:22
Speaker 1: of the weapon in the neck and the angle of
19:28
Speaker 1: the weapon as well, and if you remove it, you
19:32
Speaker 1: can do damage. If I were to pose that question
19:35
Speaker 1: to that mother at that moment in tom she would
19:39
Speaker 1: probably say, you and your evidentiary evidence can both go
19:44
Speaker 1: to hell. I don't care. I wan want to, and
19:47
Speaker 1: she was doing what she had to do, and there's
19:49
Speaker 1: no excuse. Many times when Paul I've been on scenes
19:52
Speaker 1: where police have done this, they should know better. And
19:55
Speaker 1: it wasn't as an attempt to save somebody's life. And
19:58
Speaker 1: even in life, you leave it if the person is
20:01
Speaker 1: still living and breathing. They say a surgeons say, don't
20:03
Speaker 1: remove the item because you're gonna do more damage. But
20:07
Speaker 1: in this particular case, you know, you got to work
20:09
Speaker 1: with what you have.
20:10
Speaker 3: From the standpoint mom at two twenty eight, now we
20:13
Speaker 3: know this attack took place, and at thirty minute window
20:17
Speaker 3: the arrival of the murderer, we know the exit of
20:20
Speaker 3: the murderer. I'm praying Joe that this little girl that
20:25
Speaker 3: she was knocked unconscious or something. I don't know if
20:27
Speaker 3: there's a way to find that out, but I hope
20:29
Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts that somehow this little girl
20:31
Speaker 3: didn't have to just put I hope he wasn't terrorizing her.
20:35
Speaker 3: Do we have any indication from the injury sustained. I
20:38
Speaker 3: know we've got multiple injuries. One I know we had
20:41
Speaker 3: an injury to a wrist that he tried to stage
20:43
Speaker 3: to make it look like she was cutting a wrist,
20:45
Speaker 3: but it went all the way to the bone. But
20:47
Speaker 3: my question, is it possible to determine when death occurred
20:52
Speaker 3: or when a lack of consciousness began.
20:55
Speaker 1: That's really hard to determine because these hemorrhages, most of
20:58
Speaker 1: them had the exception of the wrist, these injuries had
21:02
Speaker 1: in dwelling hemorrhage, which is an indication that she was
21:05
Speaker 1: alive for a period of time. And here's one more
21:08
Speaker 1: thing that's quite revealing as well. When the perpetrator was
21:13
Speaker 1: arrested Lobo. When he was arrested, he had scratches on
21:17
Speaker 1: his face and those green fingernails I mentioned they come
21:20
Speaker 1: into play in this particular case. Because it's great that
21:24
Speaker 1: you've got this CCTV footage, particularly from a timing standpoint,
21:27
Speaker 1: I don't know in recent memory, if I recall a
21:30
Speaker 1: case where you have it this tight. We're talking about
21:33
Speaker 1: thirty minute window, and that's pretty significant in these case.
21:37
Speaker 1: You know, all these cases we coverage, sometimes that window
21:40
Speaker 1: is gigantic and it's hard to whittle it down. But
21:42
Speaker 1: in this particular case, you got thirty minute window where
21:45
Speaker 1: this was all perpetrated and you see him going in,
21:48
Speaker 1: you see him coming out. So not only do you
21:51
Speaker 1: have that digital footprint, but also you've got a dynamic
21:56
Speaker 1: here where this precious little angel is fighting back for
22:00
Speaker 1: her life. And remember what we said, six foot four
22:02
Speaker 1: day six two hundred and twenty pounds and this maybe
22:05
Speaker 1: sixty pounds. She fought so much that she scratched him.
22:09
Speaker 1: And when they did the examination on her at the morgue,
22:13
Speaker 1: the me did the nail clippings, which is what we do.
22:16
Speaker 1: We clipped the nails and we scraped the nails, and
22:19
Speaker 1: when they did that, they found skin cells beneath her nails,
22:22
Speaker 1: and I would imagine there were some RBC's or red
22:25
Speaker 1: blood cells as well, and from that they were able
22:28
Speaker 1: to take a swab from him and compare the DNA
22:32
Speaker 1: that was beneath her fingernails and that that they have
22:36
Speaker 1: in that known sample. Because you have to have you
22:38
Speaker 1: have an unknown you compare it to a known and
22:41
Speaker 1: they required him to give a DNA sample and it
22:44
Speaker 1: married up. So there's a very difficult time that the
22:49
Speaker 1: defense would have in this particular case of marrying these
22:52
Speaker 1: two things or trying to dismiss them, okay, because the
22:55
Speaker 1: physical evidence is so very overwhelming in this case.
22:58
Speaker 3: Well, there was one thing that was said, and they
23:00
Speaker 3: talked about her injuries included several stabbing through her throat.
23:04
Speaker 3: There was what is called a knife scrape that were found.
23:08
Speaker 3: Again the little girl's four feet tall. Okay, what is
23:12
Speaker 3: a knife scrape?
23:13
Speaker 1: Well, a scrape is where it literally means this. It's
23:17
Speaker 1: where the knife is drug across the skin and it
23:20
Speaker 1: can also you can find knife scrapes and tool marks
23:23
Speaker 1: like on the floor and it will marry up to this. Now,
23:26
Speaker 1: you can use this as a means of terrorizing somebody, Okay,
23:31
Speaker 1: whether you're applying it to the surface of their skin.
23:34
Speaker 1: I've seen people take knives that were so tightly pressed
23:39
Speaker 1: against the surface of the skin that it leaves a
23:42
Speaker 1: slight abrasion there because it's being pressed down so tightly.
23:46
Speaker 1: Then you can threaten and terrorize people by taking a
23:49
Speaker 1: knife and scraping it across the surface. Say, if you
23:52
Speaker 1: have her pin down in a particular position, remember you've
23:55
Speaker 1: got this hulking form that's on top of her. But
23:58
Speaker 1: you know what's really kind of in this case, Dave,
24:01
Speaker 1: is that these post mortem injuries that came about on
24:06
Speaker 1: her body relative to her wrist, most people equate the
24:11
Speaker 1: slicing of the wrist with a self inflicted injury. And
24:13
Speaker 1: that's where we go back to this idea of self
24:15
Speaker 1: harm and these sorts of things that she was alleged
24:19
Speaker 1: to have been engaging in in life by Lobos. Our
24:23
Speaker 1: wrist if you just consider everybody, look at your wrist
24:25
Speaker 1: right now, and you can actually see your tendons move.
24:28
Speaker 1: If you just you're looking at the palmer aspect of
24:32
Speaker 1: your hands, if you flex them back and forth, you
24:34
Speaker 1: can see your tendons move just beneath the surface of
24:37
Speaker 1: the skin. They act as pulleys, and they actuate several
24:41
Speaker 1: movements within our hands. And one of the things that
24:44
Speaker 1: are actuated here is our ability to grip. So if
24:49
Speaker 1: you think about gripping a knife or a spoon or
24:52
Speaker 1: a fork or whatever, once those tendons are sliced, you
24:56
Speaker 1: don't have that ability to to facilitate that any longer
25:01
Speaker 1: the physical ability has left you. So if you're trying
25:05
Speaker 1: to convince me, and I'm using the universal, you not you, Dave.
25:09
Speaker 1: But if you're using the universal, if you're a defendant
25:12
Speaker 1: and you're trying to convince me that, yeah, she sliced
25:15
Speaker 1: her wrist and then oh, by the way, she took
25:17
Speaker 1: the knife and stabbed herself several times and then buried
25:21
Speaker 1: it in her throat. You're gonna have to go a
25:22
Speaker 1: long way to sell me that, because that's not what
25:25
Speaker 1: the case was. And as it turned out, he inflicted
25:28
Speaker 1: those wounds on her wrist after he had killed her
25:31
Speaker 1: to give the impression and I quote impression that she
25:35
Speaker 1: had done this to herself if things were not bad
25:37
Speaker 1: enough in this particular case. It took nine long years
25:43
Speaker 1: to get a conviction in this case, with as much
25:45
Speaker 1: evidence as they had pointing to Miguil ruiz Lobo, but finally,
25:52
Speaker 1: as of May first, twenty twenty three, he was convicted
25:57
Speaker 1: and a week later he was sentenced to life terms
26:00
Speaker 1: in prison. If you are anyone in your family, friends,
26:05
Speaker 1: whoever it might be, are dealing with domestic abuse, you
26:10
Speaker 1: need to reach out. You need to get help. There's
26:12
Speaker 1: a phone number you can call. It's one eight hundred
26:16
Speaker 1: seven nine nine Safe sa FE. There are people there
26:21
Speaker 1: at the National Domestic Violence Hotline that can help you. Again,
26:25
Speaker 1: that number is one eight hundred seven ninety nine Safe
26:29
Speaker 1: seven two three three. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
26:38
Speaker 1: is Bodybags