Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #15 Check your ID: How to Pivot When You Can No Longer Put “College Athlete” (or “Summa Cum Laude” or “Musician”) on Your Resume

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#15 Check your ID: How to Pivot When You Can No Longer Put “College Athlete” (or “Summa Cum Laude” or “Musician”) on Your Resume · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

[00:00:00] I'm Dr. Sarah Olivo. And I'm Dr. Liz Seidler. And you're listening to College is Fine. Everything's Fine. We want to start today's episode with an exercise. We're going to say a phrase and then pause. In that pause, notice the first word or words that come to mind. College athlete. Okay. What words popped into your head?I know for me, Liz, I always think talented, competitive, strong. Do you have some hardworking, disciplined, athletic, right? And it's funny because after talking to athletes, essentially in all of our free time over the last month, I realized that these are the words we associate with them. And at the same time, there are these full whole people, so people probably don't think things like loves to code, great photographer, kind to others, like really shitty dancer.For the [00:01:00] most part, it's not a bad thing to think things like talented and strong and competitive. But what happens once you're no longer playing the sport that you've dedicated a thousand hours to or a thousand hours plus? Yeah, you get so much attention and enforcement from your environment around that one aspect of your identity, and you don't likely or as frequently get as much attention around the rest of your pie chart in terms of the other parts of your identity.I imagine there's a lot of fear that kind of comes up and uncertainty about who am I and how do other people see me now that that's not the card that I'm leading with. And the flip side of that is if you're not necessarily an athlete, you can also be talented, strong, competitive, disciplined, whether you never identified as an athlete or whether you're no longer able to compete.It's just an interesting idea that we have certain associations. With these labels, student athlete, and that's what today's episode is [00:02:00] about is what happens with that identity, whether by choice or not is taken away from you. So in a few minutes, you're going to hear from students who can no longer officially say that they are college professional athletes.Some by choice and some with injuries that shows for them and I think we saw actually a range of reasons We kind of put it into a few different categories what we saw in terms of why people were no longer playing their sport I mean, of course, there's a really obvious one and someone will say well I wasn't given the choice I wasn't recruited.So that was an easy choice for me I played in high school wasn't recruited or I wasn't recruited to the college I would have wanted to go to ultimately And then another reason why there's lack of choice is I started, but I got injured and it was a career ending or a scholarship ending injury. And sometimes we heard that students prioritized other things for themselves in the short term.So whether it was a decision based upon their mental health, maybe they chose a school that was a better academic fit for them over a sports scholarship, but there was some decision making [00:03:00] in terms of maybe going the sports route wasn't in their best interest. Right. And then, of course, there's those longer term goals, so expanding their sense of identity at the forefront.Hey, I'm not going to play professionally. So when do I start that life? Maybe I should start now that new career path now, or just an awareness that they are their team. We're playing for the wrong reasons. We all hear someone talk about how the innocence of playing as a kid and just the fun sort of revelry of it changed when they were faced with an environment that had more.kind of a toxic masculinity or where the goal of the team was just to win, win, win. And then lastly, I think, and I felt like this was difficult to hear, right? When we think about sports as being fun and joyful, that the road to getting to a point of getting an athletic scholarship in college is so rigorous.That some athletes were like, you know what this just doesn't make me happy anymore And I kind of made a decision that if I'm not getting joy out of the sport anymore, I'm not gonna do [00:04:00] it, right? I know that was really tough, but also some real gut check moments We're gonna come back to that in our discussion after this but regardless of the reason all of these people described a shift in how they saw themselves and What happens to their sense of self when they're no longer part of a team?And when those words that we all came up with sort of naturally and instinctively, that strong, disciplined, talented, etc. Maybe they felt like, okay, those aren't automatically assumed anymore. Okay. So you guys know the drill by now. We're going to let you hear directly from the source and in the end, Sarah and I are going to come back with some additional thoughts on how to manage a big shift in your identity or how you see yourself.Well, we want you to keep in mind, and we're well aware of this, just like Sarah and I were not college athletes, but the concepts that we're going to discuss after you hear from these students apply to any time you might notice a change in how you see yourself. For example, you are the valedictorian of your class and now you're in a sea of other valedictorians and not really sure where you fit in.So listen up. [00:05:00] And as you listen, we thought it might be helpful to have you place a pin in certain themes that we're going to come back to. So here are some ideas to keep in mind. What other words do we tend to associate with athletes versus non athletes? We're going to come back and talk to you at the end about how our biases that we don't even realize we have can often keep us boxed in to a really narrow or two dimensional version of self.We're going to think about what happens when we use labels and achievements to define who we are. So think about that. How are you using labels and achievements to define who you are? And we all know that phrase, no pain, no gain. But are there some times when you're experiencing pain that actually leads to growth?Have Or the pain of feeling stuck in a period of time in your life. So if you're intrigued, stay tuned and listen, I will talk more about how to create an identity based on more than your ranking or your resume. Now you'll hear from college students where sports played a huge role in their life in high school.They chose not to play in college and how that impacted their [00:06:00] identity. I played baseball high school. It was a really good experience for me. I got to know a lot of my really good friends. The schools that I would have wanted to go to without playing baseball would not have offered me because I wasn't good enough to get to that level.So I think that I didn't want to sacrifice my overall happiness. I played football for three years of high school and I loved it. I created like a huge bond with everyone I played with. I do miss playing official sports. A lot of times people, when they decide to play a college sport, say like a Division 3 or Division 2, you're committing to something that might not work out in the long run.So people go to bigger schools and go to, quit these sports because they're thinking about the long run. A lot of the guys that I played with in high school or for summer decided not to because it was too much work. That's Full time job for a lot of guys, especially if you're playing at a smaller school, a lot of work for not much [00:07:00] exposure.Can you talk to me a little bit about what it's been like to go from having that community built in to what it's like to go to college and not have that built in community? It's definitely cool when you're playing sports, cause you're practicing, talking to, playing with the same group of guys for years, daily or weekly.You just create that bond and it's definitely different when you get to college. Yeah, it's a lot different because you're not, it's not like as accessible to have that group. Yeah, it was a similar thing for me. It's almost impossible not to make friends in high school sports because, like Wynn said, you're doing two a days, you're doing sick damn workouts, I have classes together and then you go to the field after.I think once you get to college, it's a lot more work to make friends. You actually have to go out of your way. You're not always in the same place with the same group of guys every day. So, I think there is kind of, at least the first little bit of college, that transition period where you feel like, oh, this is the first [00:08:00] time I've had to actually Push myself to make friends, and it feels kind of awkward and scary.One thing we know that helps bond people easily is shared experience. So when you're doing two a days and you're like, either feeling the adrenaline rush of a win, or feeling the frustration of the coach pushing you too hard, and you kind of look at your teammate and roll your eyes, that helps bond people.So what are some ways you've had to transition and have different types of shared experiences in college when you don't have that automatic? Sports community for me freshman year. I did not rush. And in the first couple of months, it was kind of hard to make friends. And it feels like, oh, I feel like I should be making more friends.Everyone else has so many friends. I think the 1st year, it was more going out of my way to talk to people, maybe in the dorms or in the hallways. That was really easy. Because in my dorm we had community bathrooms and you kind of saw the same guys over and over again. I made some really good friends off my dorm floor and then this year I decided to rush fraternity and that's, it's just as close of a [00:09:00] bond as sport.I like that you mentioned dorm community bathrooms as a shared experience. Horrible. Terrible. It's like yet another way to bond over a shared trauma. Sports aren't the only way. For that to be the case, we found it through disgusting bathroom dorms like over urinals. Great to know. A lot of people do sorority rush, fraternity rush.What are some other things you've seen just on campus where people find their people? There's clubs, lots of clubs. There's intramural sports, which are really fun to do, especially if you played sports in high school, it feels good. To like, actually play an official sport. One big thing that me and Wynn did a lot last year was play basketball at our rec center, like the university rec center.And I think that a lot of guys, I know I did for sure, miss the competition. I feel like if I'm not doing anything and I'm not competing with anybody, I feel lazy. So going out there and just messing around for a couple hours and playing basketball really [00:10:00] brings that back. So you're saying that if you're a competitive person and that's part of your identity, there might be other ways you need to find that.Yeah. So in high school, as you're going through, if you played football, soccer, or a swimmer, baseball, whatever the sport may be, fencing, all of it, if that was a big part of your experience, I can imagine your identity gets locked in somewhat with the labels of that sport of you being an athlete, a student athlete.What are some of the things in high school that you felt like you really identified with being an athlete? I played. Sports, basically, since I was like, a baby. I've, all I've done is sports. Harris and I would compete. Harris is my brother for the audience, older brother. We would compete until we couldn't do anymore, and we would fight.And sports have always been my kind of getaway. High school, I guess I latched onto that, like my way of uh, [00:11:00] Therapy. Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like it's really easy to let it become your identity because I spend so much time on it and I know with a lot of people and definitely for me, my dad cared a lot about how I performed in sports and how much time I put into sports.I played baseball, like practices three times or four times a week, games on every weekend and it was just, it's a grind and because of the grind, you start associating yourself with your performance. What are some words you guys associate with yourself as an athlete? Cause you said, you said, I don't want to be lazy.I miss the competition. So I start to think, okay, so obviously words you associate are being competitive, being active. Like what are some words you associate with being an athlete? Competitive is definitely the first thing that comes to mind. It's something that Might be harmful sometimes definitely for me because I get a little too competitive.Definitely like hardworking competitive competitor. Yeah. Did your identity itself suffer? Wait, if I'm not on the field and winning games and getting the cheers and [00:12:00] the accolades from dad, mom, etc. Did your identity have to take a hit? Yeah, definitely for me because it still feels like weird. It almost feels like you don't have a purpose.Not that sounds a little deep, but it's like you've always been working towards the thing of athletic success. And then once that's not even an option anymore, you think, Oh, and what should I put all this time and energy into? It was really shocking to come in freshman year and realize how much time you have just to waste on random stuff.When you were in high school and you were plotting out your time between practices and games, it felt like. That's normal. And then once you don't have practices or games, it's so weird. Just kind of sitting down and breathing for a little bit. It definitely feels at some points, like, for example, the spring after football season or like the summer, you feel like all that hard work went to nothing for a little bit.And then you get to college and you're like, you stop working out. You feel a little down on yourself. That's when you start, like I've started trying to work towards other things. It's like. I was thinking [00:13:00] about joining a club or doing something along with my major. Yeah, you're so used to putting most of your effort into just school and sports, and once that 50 percent is gone, you wonder where that effort and energy should go.In high school, my priorities were sports, school, sports first, then school second. I'm sure that's not how it should be, but I'm For most athletes, I'm going to guess that is how it is or how it was, but in college is separate, different because you have to prioritize grades. Yeah. You have to flex totally different muscles.I didn't think about that either. Suddenly the thing that was their biggest priority, and then you have to do, Oh shit. School. There was a reason I didn't prioritize that first. So now that you've had some time to push past those initial transition times. What are some ways where you feel like you can have an identity that's not based on a label in some way?One thing that's helped me like come to terms with that is like making good grades. If I make good grades, then like I [00:14:00] can work hard in school, then I feel good about myself and I can give something to applaud myself for. And also like. Working out, I'm not good at that. Working out does make you, make you feel like you've still stayed on track.It's hard not to put my identity into something, I guess, physical sports in high school and grades in high school. I tried, I put a lot of pressure on myself in high school, both academically and athletically. I think that also came from my parents too, but now that it's more my choice on what I value, I'm not good at working out either, but.When I can get in the gym, it feels good to just know that no one's forced me to do this. I'm doing this on my own just to make myself better.Now take a listen to a college student who played a sport in college and made a personal decision to no longer play when it wasn't bringing him the joy it used to. You'll also hear from a student named Colleen who transferred [00:15:00] schools when she decided to no longer cheer. Due to a pretty hefty exam schedule, we weren't able to interview her, but she graciously sent us a voice memo about her experience.What is your relationship to college sports? I guess I would technically be a junior now in college. So played baseball my whole life up through high school and kind of later in high school, junior, senior year, I was. Like getting asked by a few schools, by coaches. Hey, like, do you want to play? Is this something you're interested in?And I think at the time I didn't know myself well enough to know the answer to that. And so I guess felt the pressure of other people wanting that for me. And so I think I felt. A sense of obligation to go and fulfill that for somebody to the people who really had poured a lot in a lot of time. I went to a small school in Nashville culture, Becca.Um, and I went for a semester and I was on a baseball scholarship. So I ended up going [00:16:00] and in my heart, I think it took a while to admit it, but in my heart, I was like, man, I don't know if I really am like, but I just remember sitting there in my dorm a lot. Just like, why am I here? Like. This is not what I want to do.There was one specific time during that, that series where we were scrimmaging and I hit a home run and was like, totally absent of joy, like, wow, that did nothing for me and it was a great hit. It felt incredible. It was by the book. Like all the things were right. And I remember running around the bases and like our head coach, he called me over and was like, Hey, love more of that, whatever, yada, yada.In my heart, I was like, man, I'll be honest. I have zero desire to produce that for you. I don't, in my heart, I don't have the joy anymore. Was there a time when you did have the joy? Oh yeah. I mean, there was times, and I think high school ball is a lot of people's most favorite time of their athletic careers, just because it's, you could say it's about winning.[00:17:00] And how it's innocent and fun, whatever, especially high school football. But I think it's more just about morale and about the people you're doing it with. And we, I went to a small school with our team was tight, very tight. And we hung out all the time and did everything together. And it was amazing. And I think I cared more about those people than I did the actual sport.And I think I cared about the sport because people who poured a lot into me wanted me to care about it. By the time I got to school. In college, it was like, and it felt more of a chore to even run like that. But there was a time in high school where I really loved, I didn't even care. I mean, I'll be honest.I didn't care about winning as much. I cared about good competition. And if, if both sides competed well, I was like, I don't care if we win or not. Like we competed and I brought everything I had. And I think what was lost from high school to college is like that innocent drive to just play and play hard.And then when you get to school or [00:18:00] college and even higher than that, it gets to be a lot about, there's a lot of politics that get used and it gets, I saw a lot of like unhealthy masculine competition come out that I was not trying to be involved with. And it was people trying to prove themselves in unhealthy ways.And. It just turned me away. Well, to your point, you know, you love the team. You love the gel and how much that was a big part of the game and the experience. And so if you're not gelling with your teammates, suddenly that's such a huge chunk taken out. I also loved how, and this is another thing I'm kind of trying to think about more, is the game within the game.Right game and there's the winning and the loss and what you see in the scoreboard, but you to your point idea of competition is the game within the game. And even your little little sort of, I'm going to get this guy. I'm going to flip the script on this guy and make him think twice. It is a game within the game, you know, on with that.And that's when the word [00:19:00] game actually means its original intent, which is something you define. Yeah. And it's all up here. That's the thing. It's all about how you, you're perceiving any given moment. It all has to do with the mind and not many people understood. The game that way, and that's how I like to see it, and so I was just kind of uninterested in the mere swinging of bats and throwing the balls kind of side.I was a little bit like, okay, but the. The side where you get to mess with people and like really get in their heads. Which that is what you're saying. It's the game. It really is. You said people, um, I'm going to hold up my end of the deal, right? So you said, I got to hold up my end of the deal. People put a lot into this.I have some natural talent. What allowed you to step away? There's obviously the stuff you said made you realize that you didn't have that love for it anymore, or that it was that toxic masculinity aspect of the game. But a lot of people have that and don't walk away. There are a lot of people who I [00:20:00] think feel these things and think these things, but I think it does take a level of like, you can call it boldness or courage to step away because especially in the athletic world, like my family, it's all in music.So like they have this, their own version of this in the music industry. But when you grow up doing one thing your whole life, And then you're not necessarily told it's wrong, but you find that you don't love that thing anymore and you want to step away, it can be really. Emotionally difficult. Cause it is a separation happening.And I think a lot of people, it's almost easier to just suck it up and stay than it is to leave. So for me, it did take a lot of like really getting solidifying in my heart, what I wanted. I think the shortest way I can put it is giving myself permission to let people down. That's the thing that really turned the page for me.It's really hard because it's, it's comfortable. To have a coach or coaches who've poured a lot into you [00:21:00] or have people who've poured a lot into you and they believe in you and they really know and Trust that you have the potential to do great things. It was probably the most one of the more challenging things i've ever done But it was the most freeing.And I remember having the coach of my high school baseball or having the conversation with my high school baseball coach, and we went out to breakfast and I was like, really nervous, like, like unhealthily nervous. I told him, I was like, I can't do this, man. It's turning negative for me to, to pursue a dream.That's not mine. And I, I love the fact that you've believed in me and I am so thankful for it, but I need to give myself permission to step away. One of the things I say all the time is, do you want to have the pain of growth or do you want to have the pain of stuckness? And when you said it was hard for me to go and say, yes, I can have gratitude for what you've given me, but I don't have to have obligation.Absolutely. And I separate those things and I can say the pain of stuckness, you know it. Well, it's getting [00:22:00] up. It would be continuing to practice kind of the physical pain and maybe getting sore muscles. It's also the pain of. The mental toughness you have to have to get up and do the practice, all that commitment, know that you had been doing it for a little while longer than maybe not.I think most people, to your point, don't even get to that place. You knew that pain. Well. And so growth is unfamiliar. What happens to this mentor, the second father, this coach of mine, when I tell him I'm not doing this, ultimately, if someone cares about you, they're not going to live through you.Absolutely. You're willing to make a hard decision. It's very, very, very difficult and it will rattle you to your core for sure. Usually those decisions are the best ones to make. You know, I'm in a place I never thought I'd be. A year or two ago, and it's amazing and beautiful and totally not what I thought.And it's great. And it's awesome. I think that's what I'm working towards. Emotional health is like, is, [00:23:00] is learning what you're afraid to let go of and then trying to let go. Yeah. And listen, also, it sounds like you had a lot of care and support in your life and people you probably knew can guess. Yes.Incredibly scary. But. You're going to land on the other side with some people who love you. You know, so it's, um, I can recognize that not everyone has that. I'm so glad that you did. Um, one last question. Yeah, it's a complete gift. It doesn't sound like there was a big part of you that said, I am baseball.Baseball is me. You had aspects of your identity and you went into this. Program being a scholarship athlete. Playing baseball when you switched out of that, did you feel a little loss? Like, okay, where do I go from here? Did you have a bit of an anchor point or a vision of where you wanted to go? Um, I think.So, a lot of, like, kind of along the lines of that toxic masculine competition mindset thing that I was talking about. A lot of what I [00:24:00] didn't like, and was very unattracted. To, or not attracted to at all, was this mindset of, like, I am baseball and baseball is me. That's all I've ever done. And all I ever will do, and it wasn't because they loved it was because it was like, I don't know what I would do without it kind of thing.And that was even in high school that I was seeing that. And so I was almost the opposite of that, where I was like, I feel like I'm supposed to be this way, but I'm definitely not. And I don't know why. So I was on the, on the slow journey of questioning. Why do I not feel like baseball is my identity and even still like stepping away from it, it was a little weird.Cause it's like. That's all I ever knew. And so like, when you step away, you're still used to those habits. Even if you don't like find true fulfillment in them, you're still used to those habits in those, in that culture a little bit, so stepping away, there was a little bit of time where I was like, I don't know what I'm doing.Like what in the world? This is [00:25:00] crazy. I think I was probably more relieved than anything. Like I was borderline miserable when I don't mean to be extreme, but I was like. I have to get out of here. I'll say this. When I committed myself to being fully present in the day that I was living, things came, seemed to come to me easier and more smoothly, but it took just like, you've got to sacrifice your opinions of the future of your own future.You just, it's really challenging. Cause it's. Threatens that part in the human heart that craves safety and predictability, and it's a massive threat to that, and it can be really hard, but you just have to sacrifice in a wise way, because you want to be wise about what you're preparing for in the future, but you just have to live where your feet are at, and I think there's a lot of value in that, and I, I wish more people would live that way.Hi, my [00:26:00] name is Colleen Young and I cheered at Sacred Heart University in Connecticut last year. I have now transferred to Tulane in New Orleans, Louisiana. I am doing a million times better here and I absolutely love my life here. I decided to step down from cheerleading last year and quit my team after realizing that it just wasn't good for my mental health anymore.And I spent a lot of time trying to put into words how I felt, and this is what I was able to come up with. It's on my Instagram, for anyone that would like to read it, I'm gonna read it for you now. Dear Cheerleading, to the little girl who fell in love with cheer, I know I didn't achieve everything we hoped for, but I came pretty close, and I know you would be proud.I spent majority of the last few months contemplating what it feels, what feels like the hardest decision. I've ever had to make if you know me well, you know, I have been struggling at school. If you saw me in class or at practice, you would not know that, though you wouldn't know it by the look of my social life or my grades or how happy I seem when you see me.But that's the negative [00:27:00] side of social media. You only ever see the positives to everyone around me. I look like I'm living my dream. I mean, who wouldn't want to be a part of a program that is one UCA nationals three times in a row, except I am not living my dream. My dream was to cheer in college. My dream was to win UCA nationals, except I learned that dreams tend to change.One day in the fall, I woke up and realized this isn't funny. More. I don't get that feeling anymore. The rush, the feeling that makes every athlete keep going. I am so happy that I get to walk away from a sport that gave me so much joy and on my own terms after somewhat of a good year. Learning when to walk away from your sport for your mental health is the hardest thing in the world.It's not a career ending injury, but it is. Sometimes it gets too much and the best thing you can do is walk away. And I can't express enough that that is okay. I spent my life choosing cheer, missing things for cheer, and for the first time in too long, I'm choosing me. And now you'll hear from a [00:28:00] college student who had to medically retire from the sport due to an injury.Athletics definitely matched my thought that it was going to be really hard. But it was rewarding. At least freshman year was. I think at first, like, I was like, Oh, I've really found my people. And I think this is, like, really good. Especially my teammates. But then I slowly realized that, like, a lot of them just really weren't great people.And that's fine. We don't vibe. That's okay. Like, You do you, I do me. It's much better now, like, we are good, like, they can do their own thing, I do my own thing. So then my junior year comes, I'm still injured, still can barely swim maybe 30 to 45 minutes a day. I think I was on a team of 30 girls, and I still felt really alone.I think the highs are gonna be the fact that I have all the freedom in the world. I no longer have to get up at five to work out. I'm helping coach the team, which I'm really excited about. And I'm excited to just be a normal college student because I haven't gotten that. Like I was only allowed to go out on Saturday nights.Now I'm [00:29:00] 21 years old in a college town. I could go out when I want and I don't have those rules and I don't have someone telling me what to do. Granted, I was going to, I was going to be a captain, which is sad. But at the same time, like, I'm okay with that outwe it outweighs, like, the good outweighs the, like, negatives of my senior year.I definitely think that I want to do a better job of making more friends. At least just to have a group of people that I'd be able to hang out with outside of the team. Because I have a lot of athlete friends, but I don't have, as we call them, NARP friends. I'm a NARP now, so I guess I need to find more NARPS around.But I'm just excited for something different, because I've been doing the same shit for 15 years. So it's all going to be different. I'm going to be a senior in college. That's exciting. Like, it's all, like, first things. Like, I'm going to get recognized at senior day still for being, like, An athlete on Swim Dive, like.I literally, I couldn't be more grateful for the position that I'm in to have this kind of fresh start.[00:30:00] I thought these people we spoke to today had a lot of wisdom and clearly had done a lot of the thinking for us. So that makes our job easier. Definitely. I think without much preparation, they were able to really share their journey and like into young adulthood and thinking about their former selves, who they are now and like how they got there.Yeah. By the way, I think the audience should know Let's give some background. Oh my goodness, are you sharing one of my deepest darkest secrets? Here it comes guys, get ready. I just got off a plane and I have a cold and Liz is like texting with her husband to see who can pick her up because they have a car in the shop.Like, we Just as a heads up, you're going to get like a dimmer version of me for sure. [00:31:00] So we're trying to be fully present. Yes. There's other things on our mind besides these athletes, but we're going to turn our mind towards them and share a little bit about what Sarah and I think we could take. from their interviews and what you can leave this episode with today.Since most of you listening are in this phase of life where it's really normative to be exploring who you are and making sense of yourself. Right. Right. And we're going to talk a lot more about identity in a second. But Liz, you brought up the fact that being on a team or playing a certain sport at some point filled a lot of roles.in these people's lives. Kind of like the plug and play friend group. People talked about, it was my therapy. I had a lot of intensity at home and I got to go and have a break from that. Exercising. I mean, it's just like a, you don't have to be motivated and go to the gym. You just like are working out two days.Right. And it's [00:32:00] just built in so they can feel that energy going. And then we have also the people who said it was just really nice to be Competitive. So here we have so many different ways and I was realizing like, wow, just being on a sports team in and of itself or just playing a sport, having a coach.So then having a mentor, someone who's not your mom or dad or your parent or whoever's raising you to have that different perspective is really fantastic for a lot of people. And so you just take this one thing away and suddenly poof, it probably feels like, what are we doing here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Someone was talking in one of the episodes, they have this, like this coach they've been close to since they were in like fifth grade. That's so wonderful to have this mentorship, this long period of time. And now you're moving across the country. You don't have them anymore. You don't have your team. You don't have a surefire way to keep in shape and keep your mind and body in shape and you don't have a peer group.It's a huge shift, a huge shift. Maybe you don't have that [00:33:00] one kind of catch all. But there are ways to get those things. It certainly isn't as easy, right? It can just take a little bit more hitting the road and doing some hard work to get there, maybe going outside of your comfort zone. It's not handed to you.But it doesn't mean that you can't find those things elsewhere. You mentioned exercise and one of the things I think that can tie nicely to this next piece is once something like exercise was taken away, suddenly one of the students we spoke to said, well, what, I guess I'm just lazy now. Right? It's like, I'm not an athlete, so therefore now I'm lazy, and it goes into those opinions that we don't even realize we have about what it means to be an athlete.And then again, always insert or valedictorian or musician, right? Anytime there's an identity shift, we always have these associations with these words and with athletes and things like dedication and strength. And so if I'm not an athlete, what am I lazy now? And I think we all have those. Sort of secret opinions we don't even sometimes [00:34:00] realize we have but can act on a lot or that can get tangled up with our identity or our sense of self.Yeah, they personalized when things became difficult that they weren't able to achieve the things. that you just described about, there wasn't one bucket that was kind of capturing all the things that they needed in terms of exercising, socializing, et cetera, that they attributed it to something internally wrong with them.Rather than when I hear about it, I'm like, Oh my goodness, no wonder why you're having such a hard time. Like you had accountability, you had structure, you have a description of like when to do your homework, et cetera. Like it makes perfect sense to me that. Yeah. You would struggle like the rest of the world does to exercise and do your work and sleep and eat well.Those are common problems that people have. And a lot of times if we have words that we use like that to describe our identity, like athlete or not athlete, Then sometimes I can create this sort of all or none, or we might say black and white thinking about something. If I'm not a dedicated, strong athlete, I'm a lazy softy, you [00:35:00] know, um, and so that can make us feel sort of two dimensional.So one of the things we talk about a lot is a diversity of experience and we'll get more into this in a bit around just how do you start to create a wider, more fluid three or four dimensional experience and identity. Yeah, and that likely you need to pay attention to ways in which you're still behaving in a way that's in line with your values.Let's say taking care of yourself physically, that looks different than being on a team, you know, that you can still be athletic and pay attention to your value of taking good care of yourself. The other thing that we wanted to talk about is that idea of wise mind when a lot of these students who chose to no longer play had a bit of a gut check moment.The person we spoke to, Kitsch, had mentioned, I hit that beautiful hit, and I felt no joy. So, some people, when we asked them, what's it like to put your uniform on? They expressed, [00:36:00] they said, you know, kind of depends on the day, but ultimately expressed pride and excitement. And I think some of the people who had chose I think some of the people who chose not to pursue college sports didn't have that joy anymore.It felt more draining. So one of the things I think is important is to have those moments as check ins for yourself. And obviously, if you have one bad day putting on your uniform, I wouldn't say that that's a, well, quit. Obviously not. But if the, if the trend is towards this is feeling like a lack of joy.Check in what's going on. Yeah, and I think sometimes there's these like roadblocks I like to try to think of like your wise mind is like this well, and there's some water down there and Sometimes our thinking or the environment puts up roadblocks to access the well And so we can push away our gut or intuition because we're focused on our scholarship and what it's going to look like financially if we no longer play [00:37:00] or that coach who worked so hard training me all through high school and they are so proud of me and want me to play or my parents or My friends, we put up these roadblocks to actually accessing our wise mind.And I think you should really pay attention to that. If there is any part of you that's noticing a discomfort, a lack of joy or satisfaction, that might be important for you to tune into to guide your decision making. Look, if you're saying no to one thing, that often means you're saying yes to something else.So if you think about it less as I want to quit this, it's more like, what do I want to start? What do I want to build on? We think a lot about this idea of the pain of growth versus the pain of stuckness. That's something I tend to say a lot. And when people are basing decisions on some aspects of their personality Home life or their religion or their community values and they kind of know how to do it.[00:38:00] They kind of know the rules and they know the players and it's painful because it feels maybe hard in some way, but you know it and it's familiar. And that can feel like the pain of stuckness when you're just doing something because it feels familiar and maybe you're good at it. Then there's also the pain of growth and sometimes people choose the pain of stuckness because, hey, it's already painful and I know it.The pain of growth is really based on something bigger than just what you're familiar with. And why is it painful? Because sometimes it comes with fear. You know, I'm starting something new. I'm going into an unknown. Or we had people say, it comes with a real sense of disappointing people and I had to tolerate disappointment in order to grow and go towards the thing I wanted to do.So oftentimes I've found that when you say, listen, it's painful either way, um, what is the pain of stuckness for you and what is the pain of growth? Then it makes [00:39:00] them chug along a little bit further. I think people avoid the path of growth. Because they are thinking about the short term emotional consequences and how aversive that's going to be and they're not really focusing their camera lens out further and perspective taking, okay, like in a year or two from now, what is this going to feel like?And if you really are making a purposeful choice to focus on something else besides the sport. You likely are not going to be as in much pain or suffering in two years from now. The pain of suckness likely will continue to persist. It might be manageable, but you're not opening yourself up to the possibility that you could be making a purposeful choice that might generate more joy.Right? No, absolutely. The last thing we want to cover, Liz and I chatted about it. Admittedly, it's a little heady. Bear with us. All right, because we still think it's important to discuss. I think this idea of having an internal [00:40:00] compass that guides us and that we listen in on versus an external compass that's guiding us is really at the heart of it.of what we're talking about here. And anytime we have things that we use to fill up our sense of who we are, to make us feel good, to have self worth, anytime that quote unquote looks good on paper, like it's a resume builder, an accolade, a score, a record of some sort, that can be hard because it's all external.And someone can always get a better record, make a better grade, get the job or the internship you wanted. And so what happens when those things are taken away from you? How do you start to build up your sense of who you are with internal things, things underneath your skin that only you can control? It ties back to the just win versus full send message that Fader talked about a couple of episodes ago.The outcome is often out of our control. And I can see how doing that, focusing more on [00:41:00] internal attributes that are stable versus external factors. promotes more self liking and self competency, which are two really important factors for self esteem. When you really feel like there are aspects of myself that are stable and internal that I like.And I feel competent and capable at achieving goals that I set for myself rather than it can sometimes be arbitrary when you get a certain accolade, right? There's a lot of factors that are involved in that that are not stable and consistent and predictable. You know, my nephew, who is one of the people we interviewed, talked about why now I really enjoy getting good grades and I didn't want to burst his bubble and be like, no, you can't do that either because I've actually seen him work his ass off and he should absolutely be proud.But the truth is, like, what if the class is grading on a curve, and that is dependent on the grades of other people, or how much they studied, or how much they know the topic. Suddenly, how much [00:42:00] work you put in is really dependent on someone else. And I'm thinking, for my nephew, or for anyone else out there listening, his ability to work hard and study even when he has to miss something fun, that is something he'll take with him in life that's really, really great.And it isn't going to matter what he made on statistics. He and I text a lot about statistics, oh, it's the worst, it's, like, I hate us to, you know, um, and yes, that might be a class where he can be, should feel really proud because he worked hard for that A or B or whatever he got, and the fact that he studied hard and that diligence Is internal.That he gets to take with him no matter what the grade is. Well, when I was a stats TA for a very long time and I had the love statistics, you cannot hit me up on the side and I'm going to be logging into SPSS with you. All right, when you know to call from now on, stop texting me about stats. All I do is just validate his pain.Well, listen, you've admitted your nerddom many times here, and I'm very, very impressed. I know. [00:43:00] I'm really showing all my cards, guys. But I agree that getting away from those results and really thinking about what are some qualities or aspects about the process of getting there. For the most part, people who are playing college sports now, if you start to think about how things filter out, Even people who go into professional sports eventually have to stop.And then what do they shift to? And if they have some of those internal compasses or that ability to bring whatever it is they brought to that sport with them, you're great. You're golden. You're complete. No matter where you are. Ooh, look at that. I could put that on my fridge right there. I feel like we just nailed that.I feel like Signing off. All right, that's a wrap. We're gonna go make a meme. It's gonna say you're complete wherever you are. Trademark. The College Is Fine Podcast. Thank you to our guests for sharing their stories and their advice. This [00:44:00] podcast is for college students and we want input by college students, so please reach out by text, email, or voice.Memo to colleges fine podcast@gmail.com or 9 2 9. 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