Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Mia Carmen | The Christian Reeve Podcast #348

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Mia Carmen | The Christian Reeve Podcast #348 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of Christian Reef
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  Podcast. Today's guest is a musician
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  based in Manchester. Her name is Mia Common.
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  Welcome to the show. How you doing?
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  Thank you for having me. I'm good.
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  Thank you. How are you?
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  Good. Yeah, a bit all over the place.
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  But when it comes to sitting down and doing this, it's, it's
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  very just you sit down, you do the show.
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  And after six years now, I don't know, it's, it's kind of you
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  get, you get into a flow and such.
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  And despite the noise of life, you know, I imagine it's a lot
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  like being on stage for yourself.
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  It's you know what I mean? Like you could have like the
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  craziest noise going on and around you.
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  But as soon as you get on stage, it's just like clockwork.
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  Yeah, in theory. In theory.
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  Anyway, let's well, before, before I jump into a bunch of a
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  myriad of questions. So I, I think I found you
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  originally on, I want to say TikTok.
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  Maybe it's interesting how that works as well, because from what
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  I can see, a lot of the time it does throw up local creators
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  from your, your network, people you may know.
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  And sometimes that can be annoying because it'd be like,
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  well, I do know them, but I don't want to know them.
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  And other times it's like, oh, who's this?
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  Oh, they're going to the same places I do.
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  That's a bit weird. That's, you know, it's, it's
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  like almost like too familiar. But then you end, you end up
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  like discovering people. And yeah, I've been discovering
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  a lot of amazing artists over the last, I want to say 2 1/2
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  years, especially in Manchester and just all around the country.
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  And I found yourself and I was pretty stoked about that.
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  Like what you're doing, just that just everything in general,
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  the presentation of it all and such.
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  But before we kind of get into what you're doing now, let's
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  kind of go to the beginning. So where does, where's your
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  music journey begin? What's you know, what does it
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  start for you? So I've loved music for as long
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  as I can remember, and I've always listened to music and
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  I've always enjoyed singing. So I started singing when I was
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  like really very young, but I always had terrible stage
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  fright. So I never actually performed or
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  kind of even wrote my own music. I almost didn't let myself do
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  that until I was about 14 years old.
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  So I was terrified of singing in front of anybody and I didn't do
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  it. And then I think the first time
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  I performed was like some school event where I did some backing
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  vocals or something and then that helped me start to overcome
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  the fear a little bit. And then I booked my first ever
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  gig, like a small pub gig when I was 15.
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  And then I haven't really stopped since.
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  So this is interesting. Let's start with this.
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  So you've got this stage fright. When you got on stage and you
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  had that kind of stage fright, what, what was going through
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  your mind like? Is it just general self doubt?
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  Is it because some people speak about feeling a sense of
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  paralysis? I know in my experience, the
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  very first time I got on stage, I was forced to go on stage.
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  And you know, to be honest, in retrospect, it was, it was the
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  right thing to happen. But in the moment I was like,
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  no, no, no, no, no, no. And then and then you get and
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  you just say it similar to yourself.
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  Like I think it was a pub thing. And I was like, oh, that felt
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  good. They even clapped.
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  Wow, OK, cool. And then, you know, like many
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  things in life, the more you do it, the more comfortable you
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  feel with it. I don't want to speak for all
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  musicians here, but I think that or, you know, performers, but I
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  think a lot of the time you always have some degree of like
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  nervousness. But then you, it's like I said
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  at the beginning, business as usual.
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  So working through that stage fright, like what was going
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  through your mind and how did it get easier for you?
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  I think like when I grew up, I was always quite a naturally shy
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  person anyway, so it kind of always felt like performing or
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  any kind of singing or anything like that.
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  Just anything that happened on a stage wasn't really something
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  that was meant for me, you know? I struggled socially with
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  anxiety and things like that. So I always just thought, oh,
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  that's just not something that's in my realm of anything to do.
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  But then, yeah, I, I did backing vocals for a couple of my
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  friends and I loved doing it with them.
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  I think that helped me because I was with some other people as
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  well. So that made it a bit easier.
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  And I do think like you're saying, you know, you, you have
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  that first experience and then you're like, oh, people actually
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  clapped and people actually like that.
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  And it's a bit addictive in the sense that you're like, oh, this
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  is actually really fun. And people aren't as mean as I
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  think they're going to be. People don't think I'm terrible
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  because I'm not terrible. And I just think, yeah, like
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  once you've had that initial positive experience, it's a bit
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  of a gateway to to keep doing it.
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  It's funny you say that, like I used, I used to Co host and do
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  sound for like a an open mic for about close to a year with my
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  good friend Kaisha. And you know, we we had like a
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  bunch of different people that would come on stage and some
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  people had never been on stage before.
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  Some were a bit like trepidatious, you know, like you
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  could tell they've been practicing for a while.
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  But obviously when you get on stage, it's, it's a, it's a
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  different thing because you know, you're, yeah, you've got
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  people staring at you. And sometimes, like the, the
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  places are built for it. You know, if it's a venue,
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  people are there to see music. If it's just a open mic or a pub
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  or, you know, like you can never really kind of gauge what's
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  going through their head like, 'cause sometimes it's apathy,
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  sometimes it's general like, oh, that was cool, that was nice.
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  Other times you might get a few decades.
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  I don't know, it does happen. Or sometimes it's just like, I
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  don't know, like you just kind of blend into the background.
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  It's, it's weird, but I remember she always would say, you know,
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  it takes a lot of balls to go on stage to do this.
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  And you know, it's a, it's an obvious thing to say, but at the
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  same time, I think it still holds up Like it, it does take a
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  lot of balls to go on stage. And I always respected everyone
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  that, that got on stage and, and performed.
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  And I, I realized for myself, like I've been doing it for
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  years as well. You, you maybe it's once you've
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  been doing it for a while, you in a way you do kind of take it
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  for God and you, it's like something you just do and then
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  you don't really think about it anymore.
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  And that's interesting because it, it does take a lot.
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  And I, I do get it. Like, I give an example, another
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  one. I very briefly took acting
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  classes in Manchester and, you know, it just didn't work out
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  for whatever reason. And I just kept doing my own
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  thing acting wise, just, you know, just practicing, etcetera.
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  But while I was there, I met this guy who was like, a really
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  funny comedian, a great actor. You know, he'd been doing it for
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  years. And I remember we were waiting
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  to go in for a session, and I was like, you know, the usual,
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  what you've been applying for, what's going on?
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  And he was like, oh, I didn't apply for anything.
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  And I was like, dumbfounded. I was like, what do you mean?
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  Why? And he was like, oh, I, I just,
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  you know, I don't feel like I'm ready.
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  And I was, I was like, what? I was like, but you're
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  brilliant. Like you're already funny and,
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  and really good at this. What do you mean?
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  And then, yeah, it's the the anxiety thing.
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  Like he didn't feel he was good enough.
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  That's that's the crazy thing, isn't it?
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  Perception of yourself, of how others see you.
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  You know, I've been performing since I was the first time I got
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  on stage. I was 11 or 12 years old.
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  I'm 32 now, been doing it all my life.
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  Like I said earlier, like you, you still get that nervousness
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  and I don't know, sometimes I do Dutch courage or other times
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  just went through it. Yeah, anxiety, like I I share,
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  I'm social anxiety myself and it's it's unpredictable as well.
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  Like I get it more with little things, like if it's a room full
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  of people that almost feels like a cocoon, like safe in a way.
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  Like I'm, you know, and, and you make you know, you make it
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  laugh. Like, you know, you, you might
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  tell a joke. Joke doesn't land.
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  It's silent. And you're like, ah, I'll go
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  fuck myself then. But and you just have a laugh of
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  it. Fuck it.
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  Like doesn't matter. You know, you make a mistake on
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  guitar, you laugh it off. It's it's OK.
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  But there are people that you know, like that freeze in that
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  moment. And I'm like, Oh, no, this is
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  the worst thing ever. It's not.
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  But it feels that way. Yeah, it it, it can feel that
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  way. It does, I think like you learn
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  to kind of go with it. I, I think like there's a lot of
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  emphasis on like, oh, am I prepared to do what I'm going to
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  do? Am I prepared to go and perform
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  and things like that? Because that's something that I
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  think is, is like you said, most people's fear.
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  It's like, am I ready to do this?
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  Have I prepared enough? Have I practiced enough?
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  But I just think you get to a certain point where you're like,
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  I'm not ever like 100% ready for anything that I'm going to do.
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  So I've just got kind of embrace that that's part of the
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  experience. And I'm in a very like
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  privileged position now where my social media presence has grown
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  enough where I've got quite a fan base of young people and,
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  and a lot of young people who want to also do music.
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  And I've had a few messages about like, oh, how have you
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  overcome the anxiety or have you overcome the stage fright?
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  And I, I think it's, it's not a bad thing to have because I
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  think it's a symptom of your passion, but it's just something
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  you've got to learn to use rather than try and defeat it.
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  Because I don't think, I think if it goes away, you probably
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  don't care that much about it anymore.
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  Was there anything in particular that you do that helps you with
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  it? Any ritualistic things?
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  I mean, I mentioned the Dutch courage thing sometimes works.
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  Is there anything for you that works?
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  I, to be honest, it's depending on where I'm going and what I'm
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  doing. I, I experience it quite
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  differently. So if I'm playing a, a new
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  venue, I tend to get a lot more nervous than if I'm playing at
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  somewhere I've played at every week or every month.
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  So I, I think a lot of it depends on where I'm actually
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  at, because when I'm more familiar with the venue and I've
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  been there more regularly, I don't find it as difficult to
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  then get up on stage. But I just think I have to
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  remind myself that like, you know, if you make a mistake, no
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  one actually cares. And I think as well, musical
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  people are very critical of themselves and they think, oh,
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  everyone's going to notice if I make a mistake.
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  But usually it's only you that notices.
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  I will add though, in certain rooms, the worst critics are
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  other musicians. Yeah, and and don't get me
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  wrong, it it won't even be like they won't say anything, but
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  like they'll just be the look. It does happen.
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  Yeah, we've seen the look, you know what I mean?
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  And it it can go otherwise as well.
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  So like the best look you can ever get is that's the best,
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  just brilliant. You're smashing it.
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  But you're right, we are, we are the worst critics of ourselves.
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  And that's a double edged sword because it pushes you to to
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  really give your absolute best. But.
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  And then other times maybe yeah, I'm guilty of it as well.
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  There's been times I've got on stage and I wasn't ready and I
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  was really quick, especially when I was in the bands years
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  ago. I'd, I remember my first band, I
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  was very hard on them and we'd come off stage and I was like,
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  oh, that was our worst performance ever.
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  And they were like, what, what are you talking about?
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  And but I was in my head, I was young, I was foolish, you know,
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  it is what it is. But when it comes to live
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  performance, I suppose, especially when you're trialling
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  and figuring it out and trying to understand that what is it
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  that I'm trying to offer? What is it I do?
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  Everything feels new and everything is, you know, it's
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  like treading water. Like, is this good?
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  Is this not? And I think you are looking for
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  the audience to kind of help you with that.
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  I think in the end, it really just comes down to you, you know
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  what I mean? Like you got to kind of be
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  uniform and go everywhere and do your thing and sometimes it will
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  hit, sometimes it won't. As you're performing with with
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  your current music and everything that you're doing
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  right now, is there anything that you're finding that's say
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  consistent from a, from a performance angle?
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  Like is are you performing it like it is a record?
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  Are you mixing it up a bit more? Are you more into kind of
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  getting the crowds interactive? Like what's your approach to
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  that live performance wise? For me, I'm actually very rusty
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  with my own shows, my own gigs, because I haven't played my own
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  solo gig since I want to say maybe 2023.
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  Over the last few years I've just spent a lot of time going
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  to open mics because I've relocated and I haven't got
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  equipment where I need it and things like that.
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  So I haven't been able to do my own gig in a very long time.
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  I think I just, I, I tend to keep a mixture of my own songs
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  and then a couple of covers in the set just because sometimes
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  it can be harder to engage people if you don't have
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  something they already know, which is its own kind of worms.
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  And yeah, I try and I try and engage with the audience a
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  decent amount. I think if you make a mistake or
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  something like that, in the, in the worst case scenario, if
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  you've come across as personable, then I don't think
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  it feels as as bad to then play the wrong chord or something.
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  You can be like, oh, you know, silly me, that was a mistake.
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  And you can have a laugh and a joke with the audience.
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  Whereas if you kind of just go up there and you say, Oh, my
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  name is Mia and this is my song, and then you don't really talk
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  to them at all, it feels a lot more awkward when those things
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  do happen. And I've also found as well that
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  if you try and engage with people a bit more, they're more
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  likely to come up to you and talk to you afterwards.
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  And it's always nice to connect with people.
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  And that's ultimately how you meet other musicians as you, you
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  appeal to them first your your audience as a musician when
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  you're starting out is other musicians and and then you build
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  out to other people. No, you're 100% right on this.
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  I think. I think that was going to say
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  earlier as well. When it when it comes to me
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  getting awkward, like it's never addressing people on stage, I
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  find awkward. It's when I come off stage and
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  someone comes up to me and goes, Oh, that was really good, man.
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  And then they got like 50 questions and I want to talk.
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  But I am very socially awkward. So I'm like like, not, not like
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  I love talking to people. I'm not awkward in that in a
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  sense, but I'm awkward like because my mind is OK, I need a
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  drink. I need to get off this stage.
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  I need to get all my shit off the stage.
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  So like that's where my head is AT.
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  And there's been times when I've been like, hey, can I meet you
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  at the bar? Give me a minute.
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  I'll I'll be over there. But like, just give me a SEC.
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  Like, but you know, I mean, it's, it's a little learning
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  curve, isn't it? I stunned me before.
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  I've met like big musicians before.
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  And then they've been like kind of awkward.
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  Like there was a musician I met, I think her name was, was it
• 15:00
  Leona Flores? The guy name is?
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  She had like a big track on TikTok a few years back.
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  She released an album 2 years ago, which is brilliant.
• 15:09
  I highly recommend. It blows her that track out of
• 15:12
  the water to be honest. Anyway, she was on stage, she
• 15:15
  had this ensemble. It's fucking fantastic.
• 15:18
  She gave the main act to run for their money to be honest.
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  And I saw her signing stuff like it was like it was she was
• 15:27
  behind us and that it was, it was a men I trust gigs.
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  So like, we're watching the gig, but then she's behind us and I
• 15:33
  was like, oh, fuck it. Oh me.
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  Yeah, like, come on. So I bought a record, you know,
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  I got to sign it. And then I was like, what do I
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  say? I because it was just me.
• 15:44
  Everyone else had like someone with them to take photo.
• 15:47
  And I was like, I just chatted to her for a minute.
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  But like, I wouldn't say she was all good.
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  Like, she's good with people, but there was a bit of like, and
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  I said to us, I don't want to take too much of your time, you
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  know, I know you're busy. I know what it's like getting
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  off stage. Like, you're like, she's just
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  spoken to about at least 30 people.
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  Yeah. But it's, it's it's quite
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  daunting. The whole thing's daunting.
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  And it's funny because you can get on stage and perform in
• 16:11
  front of like, 100 people, but then talking to a few people for
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  some reason feels more daunting. And I don't understand why that
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  is. It's so much harder.
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  It's so much harder. Very strange, Very, very
• 16:22
  strange. Let's talk about let's talk
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  about your music. So from what I understand you,
• 16:28
  you've released 11 track, which is the one that I discovered and
• 16:34
  we'll get into like the theme and everything in a second, but
• 16:38
  just a good, good all round, kind of poppy track.
• 16:41
  Reminded me a bunch of different things I've.
• 16:43
  I've actually released two yeah. Yeah.
• 16:46
  I've got just coming. Yeah, so right, right, right.
• 16:49
  So I know, I know you've got this other track out, but it's
• 16:54
  just been released within the last week or two, right?
• 16:56
  Is that right? I released it in November.
• 16:58
  It's not a second. My debut came out on the 25th of
• 17:02
  September I think. And then?
• 17:04
  That's the one my. Next one came out on the 28th of
• 17:06
  November. OK, so I'm spacing on that,
• 17:09
  right. All right, that's fine, that's
• 17:10
  fine. But what I saw in some of your
• 17:13
  videos was like, OK, I'm slowly releasing these tracks out and
• 17:17
  I'm like, OK, so is there is there like an album there?
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  Or is it just kind of singles testing the waters, figuring
• 17:23
  stuff out? At the moment it's just singles
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  because I I'm still trying to build up a fan base as much as
• 17:30
  possible and I think an album is something that is probably quite
• 17:33
  far off for me. Not for like a few years I have
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  had in the talks maybe like a small EP or something comprised
• 17:42
  of the singles that I've I've got out and, and like a couple
• 17:44
  of additional ones. But it's not something that's
• 17:47
  currently being planned. At the moment I'm focusing on
• 17:50
  just releasing singles as they come and I'm having a lot of fun
• 17:52
  with that so. Yeah, I gotta say, you got the
• 17:55
  right approach to it. I'm conscious of not talking too
• 17:59
  much about my own experience here because I know sometimes
• 18:01
  when I meet someone for the first time on the show, no one's
• 18:04
  ever said this, but I, I do. It's part of the relation thing.
• 18:07
  So it's like you want to get most out of the artist, your
• 18:09
  guest on the show, but you want to obviously connect and, and
• 18:12
  share your experiences. I've, I'll just say this on a
• 18:16
  side note, I've never had an issue with talking about myself
• 18:21
  in order to push a forward a conversation.
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  Do you know what I mean? But I know sometimes people get
• 18:27
  a bit iffy about that because they're like, well, you're just
• 18:28
  talking about yourself, man. And it's like, no, if you're
• 18:31
  only talking about yourself and you're not listening to the
• 18:34
  other person, then yeah, you are just talking about yourself.
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  But if you're doing it to push a conversation forward and to have
• 18:40
  an interaction, then that's a conversation.
• 18:42
  What's the problem? Yeah, that's my two cents on
• 18:45
  that anyway. So I released an album last
• 18:49
  year. I did a single first, then an
• 18:51
  album. And I mean, it was what it was.
• 18:56
  I did a bucket, a bunch of bucket list things.
• 18:59
  I've, I'd say I've failed to create a fan base and I've, I've
• 19:02
  tried a lot of different things on social media and we'll, we'll
• 19:05
  get into the social media angle a little bit after discussing
• 19:08
  your music, I think. But what I will say is that
• 19:13
  nothing is, is really predictable.
• 19:16
  You know, it's a lot of it is just trying to see what would
• 19:19
  work. And I guess what I'm trying to
• 19:24
  say is I learned from my failure that a few things.
• 19:29
  One is the connection with people trying to make it as
• 19:32
  personable as possible. And take your time for anyone
• 19:36
  who's thinking of like releasing an album, music, anything.
• 19:40
  And you know, you're either a big, oh, sorry, up and coming
• 19:43
  artist or you've been around for a while, slow it down.
• 19:47
  Not everything has to be rushed. You know, I was really eager to
• 19:50
  get a, a full length out, get an album out, and I did it.
• 19:54
  And then it, it kind of, you know, it, it was, there's like
• 19:58
  one track that people reacted to fairly well.
• 20:00
  And then everything just kind of sat there and I'm, yeah, I'm
• 20:03
  still promoting it a little bit. But now I've, I've moved forward
• 20:05
  and I'm like, OK, now we're going to slow this down and
• 20:09
  we're going to try something different.
• 20:11
  So bringing it back to yourself, I think it's interesting that.
• 20:16
  And I don't know how you did it 'cause I, I have, I don't know
• 20:19
  how I, how to do it. Like I got a track coming out
• 20:21
  on, on the 14th, right. Yeah.
• 20:24
  And, and there's an option, I think with certain distributors
• 20:27
  where you can promote something and have the, the music, like a
• 20:32
  part of it, like an excerpt of it, but not actually have the
• 20:36
  track released. And that's what you did with
• 20:38
  your first single. Remember that there was just
• 20:40
  endless videos of you promoting this, this song.
• 20:43
  And people were like, all the comments were, when are you
• 20:46
  releasing this? When are you releasing this?
• 20:47
  When are you releasing this? And it was brilliant.
• 20:49
  You see what I mean? And it got in your head and it
• 20:51
  got in my head. And that's what you want, you
• 20:53
  know, it's an ear 1. So I think like your approach is
• 20:57
  really smart. Is there anything else that
• 21:01
  you've kind of learned from, I suppose that angle, the social
• 21:06
  media angle that's worked for you?
• 21:08
  Because like you said, you've got a bit of a following now and
• 21:11
  it's happened fairly, fairly quickly.
• 21:13
  I'd say of course, about six months.
• 21:15
  You've built quite, quite a decent following through that.
• 21:17
  So what have you learned? Yeah, I mean, I have grown a
• 21:21
  following really quickly and I'm very blessed.
• 21:23
  I mean, I only started posting on TikTok.
• 21:25
  That's where I started in, in March last year.
• 21:27
  So I've been very, it's been very hard to wrap my head around
• 21:31
  like how kind and and receptive people have been to my music
• 21:36
  because I wasn't kind of expecting the response that I've
• 21:39
  had. But yeah, I would say, like you
• 21:43
  said, the main thing is, is just having that engagement and
• 21:45
  having that personability. I think the hardest thing about
• 21:48
  being a a small artist is the fact that you have all of the
• 21:51
  jobs. So you're the social media
• 21:53
  manager, you're the artist, you're the PR team, you're the
• 21:56
  management, like you do everything.
• 21:57
  So I've, I have selfishly found a benefit in that by kind of
• 22:03
  engaging with my followers as much as possible and forming a
• 22:07
  bit of a fan base through, you know, we have like a group chat
• 22:09
  and we have like a discord channel and you know, I just, I
• 22:12
  respond to all their DMS as much as I can and things like that.
• 22:15
  They start to do a little bit of the work for me in the sense
• 22:20
  that they inadvertently promote my music to their family and
• 22:25
  their friends. And so it becomes a bit of word
• 22:27
  of mouth. So I have a bit less pressure on
• 22:30
  me actually as well, which has helped me a lot because they're
• 22:33
  the most intensely supportive people in the world.
• 22:36
  And so they tell their mum and their dad and their sisters and
• 22:38
  their brothers and their friends and they tell everybody.
• 22:42
  You know, I've had like some of my younger followers tell them
• 22:44
  that, tell me that they've they've told their teachers at
• 22:46
  school about me. And it's just things like that
• 22:48
  where it's just they start to take on a little bit of my job
• 22:52
  actually, and do a bit of that promotion for me.
• 22:55
  So I'm very grateful. And yeah, I think as well, like
• 22:59
  you're saying, take your time with it is really important.
• 23:01
  I think there's a there's a big pressure.
• 23:05
  I've especially noticed this since I started kind of
• 23:08
  promoting my own music because I started out just doing covers
• 23:11
  and things like that. There's a lot of pressure for
• 23:14
  people to and make it in the industry, whatever that looks
• 23:18
  like to them. And, and there's a lot of
• 23:20
  pressure to do that kind of immediately.
• 23:22
  It's like you need, you need to your first song that you make to
• 23:25
  take off on TikTok and to take off on Instagram and to go
• 23:27
  viral. And then you've got a career
• 23:30
  and, and there's a lot of pressure around, you know, if
• 23:33
  you haven't made it by a certain point or if you haven't made it
• 23:35
  by a certain age, then you then you can't.
• 23:39
  Yep. And I think, I think it's
• 23:41
  something that people from all, all ages feel that because there
• 23:44
  are, there are some really, really incredibly young artists
• 23:47
  out out there and on social media who are, you know, 15 or
• 23:50
  16 and they're doing amazing things and they're making
• 23:52
  amazing music. And they're already losing hope
• 23:54
  that they, they can't do this because their promotion isn't
• 23:57
  working or whatever it is. You know, I'm only 19.
• 24:01
  I've had two songs out and even I have felt sometimes, Oh no,
• 24:04
  what if this isn't the path for me?
• 24:06
  You just can't tell. You just got to throw all of
• 24:09
  everything that you can at it and, and just hope for the best.
• 24:12
  And there is an element of luck of the draw because TikTok will
• 24:16
  promote the content it wants to promote.
• 24:17
  TikTok will ban you for random reasons sometimes, but it is
• 24:24
  also what you put in and what you get out of it.
• 24:26
  And I, I think, yeah, having that fanbase has been the
• 24:29
  pivotal thing for me because if I didn't have those people who
• 24:32
  were consistently commenting or showing up to the lives or
• 24:36
  whatever it is, I would sometimes have zero people in
• 24:39
  that room. And that would make me lose my
• 24:43
  motivation very quickly. I.
• 24:46
  Think the most important thing that young artists should keep
• 24:49
  in mind, old artists should keep in mind is to not lose their
• 24:53
  artistry. Because as you said, you have to
• 24:58
  be a social media manager, you have to be a salesperson, you
• 25:03
  have to be, you have to be everything.
• 25:05
  And you know, like, like I said, like I promoted my album for 365
• 25:11
  days, I released 3 music videos, a documentary.
• 25:16
  I'm still promoting the music after all this time and it's
• 25:22
  unpredictable, you know, I'm that it's and it's crazy how
• 25:26
  social media works. There are people that know me in
• 25:28
  real life who have only just discovered now that IA I'm a
• 25:34
  musician B, that I release music like what?
• 25:38
  And I'm like, oh, but that's interesting because that has a
• 25:41
  few things. One, maybe people just not
• 25:43
  interested in you 2. Maybe they just didn't see it.
• 25:47
  Yeah, yeah. And then I don't talk about
• 25:49
  Instagram in this instance, but it's the same with TikTok.
• 25:52
  Like people will be like, Oh, I've not seen you in ages.
• 25:54
  I'm like, I'm here every day. What do you mean?
• 25:56
  I'm doing every day? What?
• 25:58
  But then that's, that's the thing, isn't it?
• 26:00
  It's algorithms, it's and and people get, we get too hung up
• 26:03
  on that. Oh, this tracks.
• 26:04
  Not got enough, you know, followers, listeners, whatever,
• 26:08
  you know, and it's I think that takes away from what you're
• 26:12
  trying to do. You know, at the end of the day,
• 26:15
  everyone's got their own goals. Like you said, every musician's
• 26:18
  got their own goals and quite this whole pressure on on making
• 26:22
  it. I think it lessens or devalues
• 26:25
  what you're trying to do. Like I've, I've, I'm not when I
• 26:29
  look at what I've done in music and acting and stuff over the
• 26:32
  years, podcasts even like I'm proud of what I've done.
• 26:36
  Just because it's not like a massive success, it doesn't
• 26:38
  lessen it for me. But I understand that we live in
• 26:41
  a society where like status is that pressure's put onto you,
• 26:46
  even if you don't agree with it, it's put onto you.
• 26:50
  And then I go and I see up and coming artists and I'm like,
• 26:53
  they've got a big TikTok following or they're doing well,
• 26:55
  but then there's no one there to see them.
• 26:57
  Like I saw, I saw a band recently and I was the only
• 27:00
  person that came to see them that wasn't like part of their
• 27:03
  like family entourage thing. And I was like, what is this?
• 27:07
  I don't understand. This band's fucking brilliant.
• 27:10
  What? What?
• 27:13
  Yeah, but that's, that's the thing.
• 27:14
  It's it's I, I think I don't know, part of the thing I'm,
• 27:18
  I've been trying to push for a while now is trying to get
• 27:20
  people to go out and listen to up and coming artists, live
• 27:25
  artists, your local artists. Go, go listen to them because a,
• 27:29
  it's more affordable, right? I mean, you can see musicians
• 27:34
  for free or, you know, only for a couple of quid or whatever,
• 27:38
  right? Versus.
• 27:39
  And I coined a phrase, someone coined this recently versus
• 27:42
  corporate gigs, right? So yeah, you can go pay £500, go
• 27:46
  see Coldplay if you want, or 10 lbs to see this local band.
• 27:50
  And that local band will blow you out of the water.
• 27:52
  Yeah, absolutely. And I think like people, I think
• 27:55
  people have a perception that kind of small artists or local
• 27:58
  music is just like, is really garbage or like it's just a
• 28:02
  bunch of people who, who want to be something.
• 28:05
  And, and I don't think that's something that is a problem.
• 28:08
  I think if you want to be a musician, that's that's cool.
• 28:11
  And I don't think it should be something that is stereotyped
• 28:14
  because I know lots of people are like, oh, they're just
• 28:16
  trying to be somebody else. Maybe they're just trying to
• 28:18
  make it as they are and that should be allowed.
• 28:21
  I think an important thing to consider as well is like if
• 28:25
  you're trying to pursue these things in life for like money or
• 28:29
  fame or whatever, you'll, you'll never be happy.
• 28:32
  I know, I know people might say like, oh, it's easy for you to
• 28:35
  say you've not made it. You're not, you don't have any
• 28:37
  money. It's like, well, that's pretty
• 28:39
  common for artists. I'll just say that.
• 28:41
  But also as as a driving force, it's kind of a lackluster goal
• 28:46
  because you might indeed get those things.
• 28:50
  And then, and then what? Do you know what I mean?
• 28:52
  Like let's say let's say like in the next year, like you just
• 28:55
  become Meg Star just for argument's sake, right?
• 28:58
  You're still the same person. Absolutely.
• 29:01
  Right. And now it's like, OK, well, I
• 29:04
  just got to like change certain things now because it's I've got
• 29:08
  to adjust and, and, and move with this wave, but it's still
• 29:12
  me writing my music, doing my thing.
• 29:15
  Yeah, I totally agree. Do you know what I mean?
• 29:17
  It's it's it's like when I think when it becomes too much about
• 29:20
  stats. And this is something that my
• 29:23
  followers, people who've since become my friends over the years
• 29:27
  have tried to bang into my head. And I only really took it in the
• 29:30
  last maybe year. I'm like, yeah, this is really
• 29:32
  important stuff. Like you just you can't get hung
• 29:35
  up on the on the stats. You can't get hung up on any of
• 29:38
  that. Focus on the people that are
• 29:40
  there right there like you, like you said, like people that are
• 29:43
  promoting you to their friends, family, that that's huge.
• 29:46
  That is so valuable. Yeah, it's so.
• 29:49
  Valuable. And I think, yeah, I mean I, I'm
• 29:53
  in a very fortunate position where I, I, I have so many
• 29:55
  passions in my life that I would love to pursue and and so, you
• 29:59
  know, I'm, I'm making music and I, I listen to music and I, I
• 30:02
  write music because it, it brings me joy and it brings me
• 30:04
  fulfilment. And so whatever direction that's
• 30:07
  going to take me and it, it will take me in that direction.
• 30:09
  But I, I think if you, if you get the, the bonus of being able
• 30:14
  to do it full time and to be able to make money off of your
• 30:17
  music and, and go and tour and things like that and do all the
• 30:19
  things you want to do, that's a, that's a great bonus.
• 30:22
  But at the end of the day, nothing's gonna, I would hope,
• 30:25
  take away from your genuine love for it and your, and your drive
• 30:29
  to always listen and always write.
• 30:31
  And so, yeah, that's a part of yourself that you don't lose
• 30:33
  touch with, whether or not you kind of make it in the
• 30:36
  traditional sense or not. So your music's quite
• 30:38
  interesting. I've picked up on a bit of a
• 30:40
  theme. It's, I mean, look, you know,
• 30:46
  Taylor Swift made a career out of it at the end of the day.
• 30:50
  Your first track very clearly aimed at as well.
• 30:56
  It seemed like it was aimed at a specific person.
• 30:58
  But I don't know. Would I be right in saying as
• 31:00
  more you took it and you're like, well, let's make this into
• 31:02
  a concept. Would that be fair?
• 31:05
  So a lot of my writing like isn't particularly
• 31:08
  autobiographical, like a lot of the things they've been writing
• 31:10
  about in the last year have been a bit more like satirical or a
• 31:13
  bit like exaggerated. I will say Chloe is quite an
• 31:16
  autobiographical track, but everything that I've kind of
• 31:20
  written going forward, So Nobody's Perfect, which has come
• 31:23
  out in November, and my next few tracks that I'm thinking about
• 31:27
  releasing are not autobiographical and they're
• 31:29
  exaggerated. They come from a place of just
• 31:31
  silliness and just enjoying writing and having fun with it.
• 31:34
  So and yeah, most, most of my music isn't autobiographical and
• 31:39
  it's, it's very exaggerated and, and, and ridiculous.
• 31:43
  But there are elements of, of some of those songs that is
• 31:48
  autobiographical. It's kind of injected in there.
• 31:53
  Yeah, I'm not criticizing. I think it's I've done the same.
• 31:58
  Like I'd be a hypocrite fight, you know what I mean?
• 32:00
  But it's, it's interesting sometimes because there's like
• 32:03
  songs on my record where it's like very specific to a specific
• 32:07
  person. And I took something out of it
• 32:10
  and made it into a song. And then there's other stuff
• 32:11
  where it's like maybe that was the starting point.
• 32:13
  And then it just kind of turned into like a concept.
• 32:17
  Like, you know, it's about this thing.
• 32:20
  Like nobody's Perfect is kind of what I'm referring to because
• 32:24
  the track, it sounds like you're kind of like communicating with
• 32:28
  with like an ex who's just a bit childish, really kind of
• 32:34
  reminded me of Sabrina Carpenter.
• 32:36
  We'll get into that. She did a track called Manchild,
• 32:39
  which ruffled a lot of feathers and pissed a lot of people off.
• 32:42
  But it was interesting because a lot of people made the, the
• 32:47
  argument was kind of split because some people were like,
• 32:49
  oh, well, this is offensive towards men.
• 32:51
  And you know, it's like treating men like children.
• 32:54
  And it's like, well, a lot of other people were like, well,
• 32:58
  maybe if it applies to you, it might feel that way.
• 33:01
  But if you're not immature and you know that that way, then how
• 33:06
  could you be offended? Yeah.
• 33:08
  And it's. And it's like, and that is the
• 33:12
  vibe I got from that track, you know, because he is talking
• 33:16
  about other things as well. But I was like, oh, I suppose.
• 33:21
  I suppose my question is like if you ever wrote or write songs
• 33:24
  about, maybe with this particular person in mind, you
• 33:28
  ever worry they might clock and be like, is this about me?
• 33:33
  I mean, I do worry about it. I mean, that song wasn't like, I
• 33:37
  will say it wasn't written about anybody in my life that I've,
• 33:40
  I've met. So I, I feel that song sat down
• 33:43
  in the studio with my producer and I said, what would a Dick
• 33:45
  head do? And then we wrote a song based
• 33:47
  on that concept. So I, I was like, I want to
• 33:50
  write a song about, you know, a girl who kind of wants
• 33:53
  everything but also wants nothing and kind of like has
• 33:57
  these really big expectations, but then kind of cringes when
• 34:00
  like she gets a lot out of this guy and then I want him to be a
• 34:03
  little bit dumb and not really see that.
• 34:05
  So like, it was that that wasn't, that was like 100%
• 34:09
  fictitious. But with Chloe, that was very on
• 34:13
  the nose because I, I wrote it about one of my really good
• 34:16
  friends. When I first met her, I was very
• 34:19
  taken by her and how she can kind of light up a room and, and
• 34:23
  talk to people. And she just seemed very like
• 34:26
  socially, it seemed that she found things very easy.
• 34:29
  And since I got to know her better, because when I first
• 34:33
  wrote that song, I hadn't known her for very long.
• 34:35
  I know that that's not how she feels about herself, but that's
• 34:39
  my perception of her when I first met her.
• 34:41
  And so I wrote that song all about that.
• 34:42
  And the name Chloe actually rhymes with her name.
• 34:45
  So I was very on the nose with that.
• 34:48
  You can sing her name instead of Chloe, and it fits perfectly.
• 34:52
  And I was thinking this is a bit of a risk.
• 34:55
  But you know, she she knows that the song is about her now and,
• 34:58
  and she takes it as a compliment.
• 35:00
  But yeah, I definitely have worried in the past.
• 35:04
  This may be a bit too on the nose.
• 35:06
  And what are the consequences of that?
• 35:08
  I don't want to find out. It's it's crazy as well, like
• 35:13
  like I saw love Kat recently and she has this song about a friend
• 35:18
  of hers who I was listening to the lyrics apparently when I was
• 35:22
  at the Manchester show, like that person was in the audience
• 35:25
  apparently. And and the song, I don't know,
• 35:29
  it's kind of tongue in cheek, but it's I don't know, I don't
• 35:32
  know if it's overly flattering. It's you know, it's kind of it's
• 35:36
  fun. I guess that's their
• 35:37
  relationship. I don't know, but it I was like,
• 35:41
  imagine you fall out with this person.
• 35:44
  Like now you've just got this track, right?
• 35:46
  And it's like, do you do you keep singing it or do you know?
• 35:50
  I mean, because we've seen it over the years, people have
• 35:52
  written like these love songs for someone and it's very
• 35:55
  clearly about this person. And then they might even say
• 35:59
  that as well. And then it just becomes awkward
• 36:02
  or they just don't play it anymore.
• 36:05
  There's that famous track. I can't remember who it's by,
• 36:08
  but it's like, you probably think you're so vain.
• 36:12
  You know that one. Yeah, right.
• 36:14
  And I think the story goes that it was about a producer or
• 36:19
  something like that. And everyone in the music
• 36:21
  industry was pretty like they knew who it was.
• 36:25
  But it like the artist, I don't think she ever revealed or
• 36:28
  confirmed that. I think it was just kind of
• 36:30
  like, yeah, like, yeah, like pub talk kind of vibes.
• 36:34
  Like everyone knows, but like no one's like, oh, is it?
• 36:37
  Could it be? Oh, I don't know.
• 36:40
  I always just wonder about stuff like that, you know what I mean?
• 36:42
  Like anyway, Sabrina Carpenter, your face lit up like a
• 36:46
  Christmas tree when I did. What is it about her that stands
• 36:52
  out for you and acts as a source of inspiration?
• 36:54
  To me, she's very special to me because I've been a fan of her
• 36:57
  for the last 10 years. So her actual.
• 37:00
  Actual fan. I feel like I've, I've grown up
• 37:02
  with her a little bit. So for me, it's it's very
• 37:05
  special to see her in the last couple of years to kind of shoot
• 37:11
  into superstardom. That's been very special to me
• 37:13
  because I always followed her career when I was very young.
• 37:17
  I loved her first ever record, I think it's called Eyes Wide
• 37:20
  Open. I loved that record.
• 37:22
  I would listen to it front to back.
• 37:23
  I think it was probably the first thing I kind of listened
• 37:28
  to like in full that wasn't kind of introduced to me by like my
• 37:33
  dad. Like my dad's a big part of my
• 37:34
  musical taste and influence. So, yeah, she's always been very
• 37:39
  special to me. And I, I just, I love her style
• 37:43
  of writing now. I love that she writes things
• 37:45
  that are satirical and, and they're ridiculous because I
• 37:50
  have a track record of, of writing very sad songs.
• 37:53
  And I'm not, I'm not a sad person, but I always felt like
• 37:56
  my, the way that I would write gave an impression that I was
• 37:59
  very miserable. And I think I felt like, I felt
• 38:03
  like it was very hard to break out of that kind of thing that I
• 38:06
  was in because I was so used to writing songs that were sad that
• 38:09
  I felt like I couldn't write anything else.
• 38:11
  And so her writing style has really inspired me to, to branch
• 38:14
  out of that and just write things that are a bit ridiculous
• 38:17
  and, and just a bit more fun. And that's not to say that I
• 38:21
  don't write sad songs anymore, but it's, it's just, it's helped
• 38:24
  me to branch out of that a little bit and feel like I'm not
• 38:26
  stuck in a niche where all I can write is things that are about
• 38:30
  the terrible things that have happened to me because I also
• 38:32
  have an incredibly joyful life and I don't like to overlook
• 38:37
  those things. So yeah, she's, she's massively
• 38:40
  inspiring to me. And I think just as a person
• 38:43
  that she comes across as very down to earth.
• 38:45
  And she's always made me laugh. And so I just, I've always felt
• 38:49
  quite connected to her. And yeah, it's very exciting to
• 38:52
  to write stuff and and release stuff and have people say that
• 38:56
  my stuff reminds me of hers because she's just such an
• 39:00
  inspiration to me. So I feel like this quote that I
• 39:04
  have in my quote book, I have a quote book people that I write
• 39:07
  quotes in. We're up to 149 so far.
• 39:10
  So you're ready for this because this refers to you and what you
• 39:14
  just said. When looking at your art, ask
• 39:17
  yourself, is it sincere? Was it cathartic?
• 39:21
  Was it fun to make? Is it made by me?
• 39:24
  And don't forget to stay silly. So true.
• 39:30
  Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I have the same thing.
• 39:33
  Like I often write sad songs. And actually for me, the bigger
• 39:36
  challenge is to write happy songs.
• 39:38
  And they're often like super cheesy.
• 39:42
  But it's, I think the thing I always struggle with is, is the
• 39:46
  authenticity angle from a happy song kind of thing, you know,
• 39:49
  because there are songs that like capture the feeling, but
• 39:53
  almost feel a bit like that they're trying too hard.
• 39:57
  And then there's others that I think are a bit more simple,
• 39:59
  like that song. Happy by Is it Pharrell?
• 40:04
  Yeah. Yeah, like I feel like that if
• 40:08
  you had to boil it down to just simplicity is a perfect
• 40:11
  representation of just kind of being bubbly and silly and
• 40:14
  happy, you know, like when you, when you really just make it
• 40:17
  simple, but where if it's like, you know, oh, I'm walking
• 40:21
  through the park, everything's great.
• 40:22
  Everything's lovely, everything's just wonderful.
• 40:24
  And you know, life is brilliant, then it will appeal to certain
• 40:28
  people, but a lot of people will be like, well, that's not what
• 40:31
  my life looks like. How dare you?
• 40:34
  It is like, all right, I get it. I get it.
• 40:37
  But like, that's the thing that we're always begging out for,
• 40:39
  isn't it? Is the authenticity thing.
• 40:40
  It's like, make it real. Make it feel real because that's
• 40:43
  ultimately going to be what people relate to.
• 40:46
  When you write your music, is there any key themes that you're
• 40:51
  trying to kind of echo through it, to relate to to your
• 40:55
  followers, to your listeners, to just the world?
• 41:00
  I mean, like I said before, a lot of the writing I've been
• 41:02
  doing recently hasn't been autobiographical, but there are
• 41:05
  definitely feelings in those songs.
• 41:07
  They're very real and, and feelings that I have felt.
• 41:09
  So I'm always still trying to keep in touch with something
• 41:12
  that I felt or something that I've experienced, even if what
• 41:15
  I'm writing about is fictional. And I I can only hope that those
• 41:19
  are things that also other people find relatable, I think.
• 41:24
  Particular themes though, like in the in the, so with your
• 41:27
  music that's that's going to be coming out, is there anything in
• 41:29
  particular that you've kind of touched on maybe you haven't
• 41:33
  touched on before or just like certain themes?
• 41:37
  I think I've been writing a lot about relationships in the in
• 41:40
  the last sort of year. And so a lot of my writing has
• 41:43
  revolved around that and, and, and breakups and, and the messy
• 41:47
  parts of relationships, but in a, in a very satirised way.
• 41:53
  And, and that's not something I historically have written about
• 41:55
  a lot because I, I think I was very focused on my own feelings
• 42:00
  and my own emotions kind of independent of anybody else.
• 42:02
  And so that's quite new for me. Yeah, I think I'm especially,
• 42:08
  especially in the last month or two and actually forming a real
• 42:11
  connection with quite a lot of people through my music.
• 42:14
  I think I'm, I'm now at the moment, I set a New Year's
• 42:17
  resolution to try and write a new song every week.
• 42:20
  And so one of my goals to, to write a song about soon is, is
• 42:24
  my connection with those people, because that's something that's
• 42:26
  really important to me. So as I listen to them talk
• 42:30
  about the things that they're up to and the things that they're
• 42:32
  going through, I think conversations I've had with them
• 42:35
  has inspired me quite a lot. I, I spoke to a follower on New
• 42:39
  Year's Eve about that, that weird feeling that you get from
• 42:41
  before New Year's where some people are like, yes, it's New
• 42:43
  Year's. Like I'm so excited.
• 42:45
  And then other people, it feels very ominous and it feels like,
• 42:48
  oh, another year has passed. And I've always felt like that
• 42:51
  that on New Year's is a bit like there's a lot of pressure to be
• 42:55
  excited. And that really inspired me.
• 42:58
  And I wrote a song about that that night.
• 42:59
  It's an incredible goal. I I wish you the best of it.
• 43:04
  That's 52 songs in a year. I've stuck to it so far so.
• 43:09
  Well done. Well done.
• 43:09
  Just keep it up. Yeah, I've noticed that about
• 43:11
  New Year's. I've actually, there's been
• 43:13
  times when it's felt almost depressing, which it's a new
• 43:18
  year, you know, it shouldn't be. It's.
• 43:20
  Yeah. I mean, I think the film that
• 43:23
  captures it the best has got to be Forrest Gump.
• 43:30
  There's a scene in that. Have you ever seen that film?
• 43:32
  Yeah, right. So for those who don't know, I'm
• 43:35
  sure most people know, but there's a scene in it where
• 43:38
  Forest is celebrating New Year's with Lieutenant Dan, who
• 43:43
  famously doesn't have any legs because they, I think that he
• 43:47
  was in the war or something. They were blown off, something
• 43:49
  like that. And yeah, that's right.
• 43:51
  Yeah, they were in war together. Forest saved him.
• 43:53
  That was a story anyway. So he resents Forest for that
• 43:57
  because his ancestors always died in battle and he wanted to
• 44:01
  do that. And he didn't see the point of
• 44:03
  living. And it sucks.
• 44:04
  There's a story and there's this just iconic shot of like Forest
• 44:09
  celebrating and it's New Year's and he's partying.
• 44:12
  He's oblivious. And Lieutenant Dancer sat there
• 44:14
  in his wheelchair just miserable.
• 44:17
  And like, all the confetti is all over him and everywhere.
• 44:21
  And it's just, it's a miserable picture.
• 44:23
  But it's like the the juxtaposition of the happiness
• 44:26
  versus the sadness. And I think we've all at some
• 44:28
  point felt maybe not even just with New Year's, but that that
• 44:31
  feeling of being in the crowded room and, and maybe not feeling
• 44:36
  the vibe that everyone else is feeling.
• 44:37
  You know what I mean? It's like quite isolating.
• 44:41
  It's quite a raw feeling that people don't always get.
• 44:46
  And if you don't get it, it can try and explain.
• 44:51
  It is a bit tricky because it's like people just think you're
• 44:53
  miserable. And it's like, yeah, but there's
• 44:56
  a reason why. Like, it's not, it's not all in
• 44:59
  my head, man. I'm not just like a miserable
• 45:01
  person. Like, yeah, it's a series of
• 45:04
  events. But anyway, I digress.
• 45:05
  I do bring it back to Sabrina Carpenter, just for a second.
• 45:10
  I noticed a lot that you you were pushing to maybe perform
• 45:14
  with her one day. Yeah.
• 45:17
  How close are you to that goal? Very far away, yeah.
• 45:23
  So you never know. You never know, you know, I, I
• 45:26
  listen to so much music and so there's, there's so many, so
• 45:29
  many artists that I'm, I'm so inspired by and I would love one
• 45:32
  day to, Oh God, there's so many. I mean, she, she is obviously
• 45:37
  one of them and probably the, the biggest one that I can think
• 45:41
  of. But you know, I'm a big Lana Del
• 45:43
  Rey fan and I've seen her twice live and I'm massively inspired
• 45:46
  by her and oh, there, there are just so many.
• 45:50
  I, I listen to so much music, so much music.
• 45:54
  And so, yeah, I'm very far off that goal.
• 45:56
  I don't think she knows who I am right now.
• 45:59
  But you know that that's such a, a wild dream of mine.
• 46:02
  And you, you don't, you don't get anything without putting it
• 46:05
  out into the universe. So, you know, there's no harm in
• 46:09
  aiming very high is in my opinion anyway.
• 46:15
  But yeah, I, I often like, use her hashtag and under my videos
• 46:18
  and things like that because a lot of, a lot of fans of her
• 46:20
  music end up really liking my sound.
• 46:22
  So my strategy has been to use her as a hashtag as much as
• 46:27
  possible when I'm promoting my own music because a lot of
• 46:29
  people who who love her love nobody's perfect.
• 46:33
  And that's a good portion of my, of my fan base are people who
• 46:36
  are very intense Sabrina Carpenter fans.
• 46:38
  So I can relate to them in that way.
• 46:41
  I've got to say you're really smart young lady.
• 46:42
  Like there's, there's a lot of I felt such an old man saying
• 46:47
  that, but like I just, I never would have thought of doing
• 46:50
  that. Like it's, it's really
• 46:52
  interesting how you approach your promotion and the way you
• 46:56
  approach this and stuff. It's very smart.
• 46:58
  Like did you learn this at school from the parent, from
• 47:02
  somewhere? You get this business kind of
• 47:05
  mindset. As I go, I'm just learning as I
• 47:08
  go, but I have some amazing, amazing friends who are also
• 47:11
  making music who who have helped me a lot.
• 47:15
  So just asking for their opinion and for their guidance has been
• 47:18
  a blessing. But no, I'm, I'm really just
• 47:20
  learning as I, as I go, like most of us are.
• 47:22
  And just once something sticks, just staying with that for as
• 47:25
  long as it does stick. And that's what you can really
• 47:29
  do. Yeah, well done.
• 47:31
  Move on smashing it. Thank you.
• 47:33
  So you've been nominated for AI. Want to get this right?
• 47:38
  SBTM songs behind the Music Award for Breakthrough Artist of
• 47:43
  the Year. Now what does that mean to you?
• 47:47
  It was definitely quite shocking to be nominated.
• 47:50
  So I didn't know before they announced the nominations that I
• 47:53
  was in the running for one because they had run a like a
• 47:58
  text box kind of poll thing on Instagram where they asked who
• 48:01
  do you think should be a nominee?
• 48:03
  And I knew that I had come up, but I thought there's no way
• 48:07
  that that's going to progress anything beyond that because I
• 48:11
  only started releasing music in late September.
• 48:13
  So I there's just no way in my head that that made sense.
• 48:18
  But, you know, it happened and I got nominated and yeah, it's a
• 48:24
  very emotional thing for me because I, I think it can be
• 48:28
  hard to to visualize kind of how much support you're actually
• 48:33
  getting when you don't like, you know, play a live show with a
• 48:36
  bunch of people in a room. You know, you know, that you've
• 48:38
  got a certain amount of followers and you know, that
• 48:40
  you've got a certain amount of people who kind of consistently
• 48:42
  comment or show up for you. But you don't get kind of a
• 48:45
  metric for that, you know, getting a kind of number of
• 48:50
  votes, something that you wouldn't obviously ordinarily be
• 48:52
  able to gauge. And so, so yeah, it was a shock
• 48:57
  to be nominated for it because I think it made me realise, oh,
• 48:59
  there actually are a lot more people in my corner than I tend
• 49:02
  to realise. And yeah, I'm just, I'm
• 49:06
  incredibly lucky and I never take it for granted.
• 49:08
  I think I get, I get very worried sometimes that maybe
• 49:11
  people don't realise how grateful I am.
• 49:13
  So I like to take every opportunity I can to tell them
• 49:15
  because, you know, I'm, I'm doing my degree and I'm, I'm
• 49:20
  living outside of my TikTok page, a very normal life where
• 49:25
  I'm just, you know, I'm studying and I'm working part time and
• 49:28
  things like that. And so to be able to do this on
• 49:31
  the side semi sustainably, it's just a massive privilege.
• 49:35
  And so I don't like the thought that people might not realize
• 49:38
  how much I appreciate that. So I always like to let them
• 49:40
  know. It is incredibly humbling.
• 49:42
  And yeah, I just, I feel very, very grateful because I, I often
• 49:47
  say quite a lot, I have a very weird life because you know,
• 49:51
  I'll, I'll go in to uni 9:00 to 5:00 and get some, some work
• 49:56
  done. And then 5:00 to 9:00.
• 49:58
  I'm like writing songs and posting music and interacting
• 50:01
  with thousands of people. And it's, it's, it's very weird
• 50:05
  kind of thing to flip between, but it's, it's, I'm massively
• 50:09
  lucky to be able to do that. It's.
• 50:11
  The life of an ice, isn't it? It's I, I know the feeling well.
• 50:15
  It's it's strange that one day it's like you're serving at the
• 50:17
  bar and next day you're on set. Next day you're on on stage,
• 50:21
  whatever it's. But it's the life we chose to
• 50:24
  try and do the things we love. And, you know, it's just part of
• 50:28
  the deal, isn't it? But it's it is strange.
• 50:30
  It is weird. It is weird.
• 50:32
  It is strange. Yeah, that's very weird.
• 50:35
  So we, we, we, OK, well, we, we spoke about this earlier a
• 50:40
  little bit, but I'd, I'd love to kind of get your general
• 50:43
  thoughts on it. So what do you make of musicians
• 50:45
  having to be content creators and in order to promote their
• 50:48
  work? Because you're getting success
• 50:51
  with it. And I, I think you've got a good
• 50:53
  attitude with it. You're having fun with it.
• 50:54
  And I think that's kind of the key, isn't it?
• 50:56
  Like you can't take yourself too seriously.
• 50:58
  I started having fun with mine earlier a month or two ago.
• 51:03
  I was like, what if I just play around with the lyrics for for a
• 51:06
  laugh? And yeah, got some laughs and I
• 51:08
  was like, this is fun. This is this is what it should
• 51:10
  be. But what do you make of it in
• 51:13
  general? Like how?
• 51:14
  What are your thoughts on that? I wouldn't say that I'm a
• 51:18
  natural kind of content creator. I know you know some people that
• 51:22
  I want to be an influencer. I want to, I want to make videos
• 51:25
  or things like that. And that's not something.
• 51:28
  My worst fear is people thinking I'm an influencer before they
• 51:31
  know that I make music, by the way.
• 51:33
  But you know, like everybody, to each their own, right?
• 51:36
  Everybody has their own thing and.
• 51:38
  I see this single right there. Yeah, but I'm, I'm not a natural
• 51:43
  content creator by any means. And I think when I first started
• 51:48
  out posting videos, I had, I had a little bit of, I don't want to
• 51:53
  say resentment because that's the wrong word, but I, I think I
• 51:55
  had a little bit of bitterness that I, I had to make so much
• 51:58
  content and I had to do things that were actually things I
• 52:03
  would feel inclined to do. Like I felt like I was a bit
• 52:05
  dishonest sometimes in the kind of content I was creating
• 52:08
  because, you know, I would cover songs that people would request
• 52:11
  that maybe I didn't actually like and things like that
• 52:13
  because people were asking me to do them.
• 52:14
  And so it felt a bit disingenuous.
• 52:18
  And I would get frustrated because I think when I started
• 52:20
  doing TikTok lives and things like that, it's a bit of a Wild
• 52:23
  West sometimes. Like people say things that are
• 52:26
  very out of left field and obviously you're.
• 52:30
  Dealing with them. Creepy.
• 52:32
  Creepy, weird, discriminatory, like it's just kind of anything.
• 52:36
  So, you know, I, I had a bit of bitterness at at the beginning
• 52:40
  because I was, I was like, well, this is what I sign up for.
• 52:43
  I, I sign up to enjoy music and to make music.
• 52:46
  I don't sign up to get abuse on the Internet or whatever it
• 52:49
  might be, which of course no one signs up for.
• 52:52
  But I think like you're saying, you know, you start to learn a
• 52:56
  way to be genuine and to and to get across the point that you
• 53:00
  want to get across and you start to have fun with it and you
• 53:02
  start to enjoy it a lot more. So I know there's a big argument
• 53:05
  online like you're saying, oh, well, small artists shouldn't
• 53:07
  have to be a content creator to be a musician because they're
• 53:10
  not the same thing. But I think the reality of it
• 53:13
  now is that a massive part of people's career is social media.
• 53:17
  And I think you unfortunately now can't have one without the
• 53:21
  other. You can't go to a record label
• 53:24
  and send them ACD and, and sign a label and become massively
• 53:28
  famous. You, you have to go through the
• 53:29
  social media route because there's actually no other way of
• 53:32
  doing it now. And I think, yeah, it's, it's
• 53:36
  hard. And I, I, I agree that like you
• 53:38
  shouldn't have to be 1 to be the other, but I don't know.
• 53:42
  I think it's it's. It's hard to imagine making it
• 53:46
  without it now. Yeah, I agree on the social
• 53:49
  media angle or that I will say with labels and film directors
• 53:57
  these days and stuff like that, all they care about is numbers.
• 54:00
  And it's just, that's just not realistic.
• 54:04
  That's not what being an artist is, and it's not sustainable.
• 54:08
  Yeah. I mean, I just started listening
• 54:12
  to Joe Kerry's music. D Joe, As I said, Joe, Yeah.
• 54:17
  Yeah, I think it's just Joe. Yeah.
• 54:18
  Joe yeah. So turns out he did that all off
• 54:23
  his own back, like independent and he smashed it.
• 54:28
  Like he's he's kind of done a Childish Gambino in the sense
• 54:30
  that like his acting career and music career, like it's like
• 54:33
  different people almost, you know, And, you know, I think the
• 54:39
  thing that I look at in particular is, you know, we, we
• 54:42
  were speaking about artistry earlier, like what things look
• 54:46
  like, how things are presented. Like, yeah, you have to have a
• 54:49
  social media presence, right? But you don't have to be a
• 54:53
  content creator. Like it's a choice, you know,
• 54:55
  you can have fun with it. I think the reason that I
• 54:59
  decided to try it is A, why not just try it?
• 55:02
  B. I've always been a content
• 55:04
  content content creator anyway. And C yeah, I never minded being
• 55:10
  a little bit silly, but I know that that like with certain
• 55:12
  things, it won't work. Like if it's a more serious
• 55:15
  thing or, or you're trying to do like a concept thing, stick to
• 55:20
  your art stick, stick to what you want to do.
• 55:21
  You know, don't don't feel the pressure.
• 55:23
  You don't have to do it. It's a choice.
• 55:25
  You know, it's always. A choice.
• 55:27
  I do agree with you there. Like I think there's a
• 55:29
  perception that it has to be very regimented and you have to
• 55:31
  do certain things to achieve certain things.
• 55:34
  But I think you also have to stay true to yourself.
• 55:36
  So if you're going to make a kind of content that doesn't
• 55:39
  feel right to you, then it probably won't resonate with the
• 55:41
  audience because they can read you quite well, I find.
• 55:45
  So yeah, the main thing is having fun with it and then and
• 55:47
  then finding your niche of the kinds of things that you
• 55:49
  actually enjoy creating, because then the people who enjoy that
• 55:53
  will come and find you eventually.
• 55:55
  But it's better to stick to something longer term that feels
• 55:58
  more you than to do something that feels disingenuous just to
• 56:01
  get some figures because also your audience then misled by
• 56:05
  that as well, which isn't fair on them.
• 56:08
  You mentioned that you're studying what you're studying.
• 56:10
  Psychology. Psychology.
• 56:14
  Are you going to become a doctor of psychology?
• 56:17
  Yes, I'm, I'm kind of stuck in in two minds between counselling
• 56:21
  psychology and and doing music psychotherapy at the moment
• 56:24
  because obviously that would be the perfect marriage of the
• 56:26
  things that I love. But yeah, going into something
• 56:29
  therapeutic. So it'll be one or the other.
• 56:32
  Be Doctor Carmen on stage. Hey, crazy things that happen.
• 56:37
  I've got a friend who's a doctor in psychology.
• 56:41
  I kid you not. And she's the lead singer of a
• 56:44
  punk rock band. I love that.
• 56:47
  And it blew my mind because I remember when I met her, she was
• 56:50
  studying the PhD and had like a full time job and was doing the
• 56:55
  band and managing and label. And I was like, how do you have
• 56:58
  the time? And she made it work.
• 57:02
  And then one day I just see it like, boom, I got my PhD.
• 57:06
  What? So that doctor, I'm like, that's
• 57:09
  that's the coolest shit ever. So there you go.
• 57:11
  I'm calling it Doctor Carmen. It's gonna happen one day.
• 57:16
  All right, here's some big questions.
• 57:17
  You ready? What has music taught you about
• 57:20
  life? I think that this is actually
• 57:23
  kind of easy for me to answer I think cuz I think I've thought
• 57:25
  about this actually a lot. I have always felt a little bit
• 57:31
  like I've always found it quite hard to relate to people.
• 57:33
  Like especially growing up, I always find it quite hard to
• 57:35
  connect to people and I think I had some very big feelings, so
• 57:39
  very difficult for me to explain.
• 57:41
  So I've always been very like deeply empathetic and things
• 57:44
  like that. And those are those are very
• 57:45
  big, big things to process on your own.
• 57:48
  And I think music was always so healing for me because it gave
• 57:51
  me this outlet where I always felt like there was someone in
• 57:53
  the world that understood what I was going through.
• 57:56
  So I could always find a song or an album that reflected how I
• 57:59
  was feeling. And it helped me to process
• 58:01
  whatever it was that I was dealing with at that time.
• 58:03
  So I think it's taught me about life that you're even even in in
• 58:08
  times where your situation feels very, very specific to you or
• 58:12
  your feelings feel very specific to you, that there's always
• 58:14
  somebody else who's gone through it or gone through something
• 58:16
  similar enough where they can understand your perspective.
• 58:19
  Because I, I always growing up that for I kind of thought that,
• 58:22
  oh, I'm seeing the world in my own way and, and no one else can
• 58:25
  get that because I can't even begin to explain it myself.
• 58:28
  But then music always put that into words for me in a way that
• 58:31
  I could never do myself. There you go, solid stuff.
• 58:34
  What's the worst advice you've ever received?
• 58:39
  I will add before you answer, right?
• 58:42
  So there's a reason why I've added this question is, but that
• 58:47
  I always have these like questions at the end of every
• 58:49
  show, right? Like the bigger questions and
• 58:53
  the next couple of questions will be positive, right?
• 58:56
  But I do actually think there's something to be learned from
• 58:58
  this because it's we get great advice in life and we also get
• 59:02
  terrible advice in life and we can learn a lot from the things
• 59:07
  that we don't follow. And that's why I'm including
• 59:10
  this question. So I'll just say that worst
• 59:12
  advice. You know, I think I've been
• 59:15
  given quite a lot of bad advice over the.
• 59:18
  Years, I'm sure. I think, I think a lot of, at
• 59:24
  least musically, I think a lot of the advice that I've, I've
• 59:28
  been given that I, I would never ever now with my knowledge today
• 59:32
  give somebody else is, is a lot to do with like always go with
• 59:36
  the audience or always do what the audience wants.
• 59:38
  All that kind of advice about like cater to the like when I
• 59:42
  was like a lot younger and I was playing at pubs in, in like
• 59:46
  summer events and things like that.
• 59:47
  It was always like, you know, do Valerie by Amy Winehouse, like,
• 59:50
  you know, like always these things that like crowd pleasers
• 59:52
  and, and I get that you want to have a crowd pleaser in there to
• 59:56
  engage people and things like that.
• 59:57
  But that always felt disingenuous to me because I was
• 1:00:01
  doing something not necessarily because I wanted to, but because
• 1:00:05
  it was what other people wanted to hear from me.
• 1:00:08
  And I think a lot of artists fall into that trap of like.
• 1:00:11
  Going to play at pubs that only let them on because they do a
• 1:00:14
  whole set of covers because they don't want to hear anything
• 1:00:17
  original. And so yeah, that's advice that
• 1:00:20
  I think is bad. And I understand where it comes
• 1:00:22
  from because it seems logical. But I would never, ever bestow
• 1:00:25
  that on someone else, which is always do what the audience
• 1:00:28
  wants. Because you have to strike a
• 1:00:29
  balance between making sure that the audience enjoys you and
• 1:00:34
  enjoys your music and enjoys you being there, but also not
• 1:00:37
  sacrificing being true to yourself.
• 1:00:40
  I completely agree. And you've touched on the big
• 1:00:42
  thing for me here. I've seen it happen in real
• 1:00:45
  life. Fucking Bellary.
• 1:00:48
  No, it's just end of conversation.
• 1:00:52
  No, but I get it. And I think a lot of that comes
• 1:00:55
  down to just being in the wrong venues, really wrong places.
• 1:00:58
  It's not for them. And that's fine.
• 1:01:00
  You know, there's, there's places for that, there's
• 1:01:02
  musicians that do that. Last year I did a lot of covers
• 1:01:05
  gigs and I was getting paid to do and it's great.
• 1:01:08
  But I'm not doing it now. Why?
• 1:01:11
  Because I don't want to play other people's music.
• 1:01:14
  Yeah, same thing you said. I'm sick of walking into places
• 1:01:18
  and oh, play this, play this, play this, play this.
• 1:01:22
  It's like soul crushing for a musician when you when you've
• 1:01:26
  got the original music and you're trying to push that.
• 1:01:29
  I looked at it and I was like, this is what are the benefits of
• 1:01:31
  doing it? OK, you get paid.
• 1:01:33
  You get to perform. Now as a musician, anytime you
• 1:01:36
  get to perform fantastic, it's great.
• 1:01:39
  But when you're playing other people's music, unless it's
• 1:01:42
  music specifically that means a lot to you in some way, it's,
• 1:01:47
  you know, it's just kind of going through the motions, I
• 1:01:50
  feel. It is.
• 1:01:51
  And, and I, I say that with the caveat that like, obviously
• 1:01:53
  there are some amazing, amazing covers artists out there.
• 1:01:56
  Yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, they're absolutely amazing and,
• 1:01:58
  and incredibly talented. And I think, you know, if, if
• 1:02:01
  some, if I go to a pub or I'm on to talk live or something, and
• 1:02:03
  someone asked me to play Valerie, if I'm in the mood to
• 1:02:05
  play Valerie, I'll, I'll play Valerie.
• 1:02:07
  Like, is this a good, it's a good song.
• 1:02:08
  It's fun. I'll do it.
• 1:02:09
  But I, I think it's, it's just when that feeling of autonomy
• 1:02:12
  gets taken away from you, like, oh, these people are only going
• 1:02:15
  to listen to me if I play them something that they already know
• 1:02:17
  and they're not actually interested in me as a person.
• 1:02:20
  I think that that's the bit that feels soul crushing.
• 1:02:23
  And yeah, I think it's it's hard to kind of communicate that in a
• 1:02:26
  way that makes sense to the listener.
• 1:02:31
  There was an artist that I met an open mic a few years back,
• 1:02:36
  Chad Charlie Hawkins. I don't know if you ever see
• 1:02:38
  this. She's an amazing singer.
• 1:02:40
  Like she can do anything. It's incredible.
• 1:02:44
  And she has her own music out. And we were, was it Peaky
• 1:02:48
  Blinders in Manchester, which they used to do.
• 1:02:53
  Open minds. They don't do it anymore.
• 1:02:55
  It's not built for it. It's just not like you, you
• 1:02:58
  throw someone on in the background, play some like,
• 1:03:00
  covers, a little blending. That's what people want.
• 1:03:02
  Or if it's a Saturday night, people, yeah, play fucking
• 1:03:06
  Wonderwall. You know, that's what they want,
• 1:03:07
  right? But this was an open mic and it
• 1:03:11
  was interesting. It was my first time there was
• 1:03:12
  my last time ever going there because I just looked at it and
• 1:03:15
  I was like, this is these people don't want this.
• 1:03:18
  And it was interesting. She got on stage, she played a
• 1:03:21
  few originals. People clocked, oh, this girl
• 1:03:24
  can sing. And I could hear like with her
• 1:03:27
  voice as I bet she could do this, this, this.
• 1:03:30
  And she did like an amazing, I think it was a Florence in the
• 1:03:33
  Machine cover or something like that, which is really fucking
• 1:03:35
  hard to sing. Like, wow.
• 1:03:38
  And like, you know, sure enough people, random people were like
• 1:03:40
  dancing and drunk and like, yeah, great, great, great.
• 1:03:43
  I'll play this, play this. And she played it like she's a
• 1:03:47
  smart eye. She's like, she knew that I'll
• 1:03:50
  throw this in. They want this, I'll play this.
• 1:03:52
  And she's used to it, right? But I went and I, I listened to
• 1:03:56
  all of her music and I was like, this is fantastic.
• 1:03:59
  This is really, really great music.
• 1:04:01
  And I see her now sometimes doing covers gigs.
• 1:04:03
  I'm like, that's cool if you know, if it's just a way of
• 1:04:05
  making money and you're happy doing it.
• 1:04:08
  And that's the key. If you're happy doing it, by all
• 1:04:10
  means, right? But there is a big difference
• 1:04:14
  between being an artist and being a covers artist.
• 1:04:17
  There's people who make careers out of it and it's its own
• 1:04:21
  thing. But you, you can't mix like it
• 1:04:24
  doesn't. I've tried throwing in my
• 1:04:26
  originals in cover sets and people don't want to hear it.
• 1:04:30
  Absolutely. I, I, I love playing covers and
• 1:04:32
  I love, I love like singing people's other people's music.
• 1:04:36
  It's, it's one of my favorite things to do.
• 1:04:37
  I sit with the guitar for hours and I can do it.
• 1:04:40
  But it's it's when people aren't prepared to hear your own stuff
• 1:04:43
  in the mix of that that it is disheartening because it's like,
• 1:04:46
  oh, you actually only like that because you already knew the
• 1:04:49
  song and it was actually nothing to do with me or what I can
• 1:04:52
  bring to the table. Yeah, that has been open.
• 1:04:55
  Microsoft done where that's the case.
• 1:04:57
  I played a couple of originals and one cover.
• 1:05:00
  And I remember one time because I love Radiohead, so I sometimes
• 1:05:05
  play Radiohead's tunes. And I included this song.
• 1:05:09
  And then these people go, oh, what was that song that you
• 1:05:11
  played last? And I was like, oh, yeah, it's a
• 1:05:14
  Radiohead song. Oh, thank you.
• 1:05:18
  They didn't care about me. I just want to know.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah, who's by Great. And.
• 1:05:22
  And your heart just sinks. And it's not their fault.
• 1:05:25
  Look, they're just sitting there listening.
• 1:05:26
  They're just the audience. But it's like, I wish they'd say
• 1:05:30
  that about my music. Yeah, But there will be people
• 1:05:33
  that will. But yeah, anyway, let's bring
• 1:05:37
  the mood up. What's the best advice you've
• 1:05:41
  ever received? I think something I've been kind
• 1:05:46
  of following over the last year, like when I've been actually
• 1:05:50
  putting out my own music, is to it level.
• 1:05:54
  There's a level to this, but buy off more than you can chew and
• 1:05:57
  then just chew it really hard because I, I was always very
• 1:06:02
  like, oh, I can't, I can't make music.
• 1:06:04
  I can't release music because how will I balance it with
• 1:06:07
  everything else I've got going on?
• 1:06:08
  And and you know, will I become so in love with it that it makes
• 1:06:11
  everything else a bit more difficult?
• 1:06:13
  Yes, that is true a little bit because I would love to have
• 1:06:17
  more time in my schedule for it, but I'd rather have not as much
• 1:06:21
  time as I would like to do something that I'm doing rather
• 1:06:24
  than give it no time at all. And so that's been a big, big
• 1:06:29
  bit of advice that's been kind of in my head for the last year
• 1:06:32
  is just take on as much as you possibly can and you'll fit it
• 1:06:35
  in somewhere. And then if you, if you really
• 1:06:37
  can't fit it in, you'll figure it out.
• 1:06:38
  But like, I, from my perspective now, I can't imagine what my
• 1:06:44
  life would be like if I hadn't started posting on TikTok in
• 1:06:47
  March and releasing my own music because it brings me so much
• 1:06:52
  fulfilment that I can't picture my life any differently right
• 1:06:55
  now. So yeah, just like, take every
• 1:06:58
  opportunity and just do it and like, do the things that you
• 1:07:00
  love doing because life is way too short to not do them.
• 1:07:03
  You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow or next week,
• 1:07:05
  and it's not worth waiting around to find out.
• 1:07:08
  I think just do the things that you want to do.
• 1:07:11
  Why is beyond your years? Man it's blown me away.
• 1:07:14
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:07:16
  I think not. It's quite similar to what I
• 1:07:19
  said before, but not letting other people's opinions kind of
• 1:07:22
  dictate what you do too much because, you know, there's lots
• 1:07:27
  of people that have a lot of things to say on the Internet
• 1:07:29
  about your appearance or what you're doing or the music that
• 1:07:32
  you're making. Or, you know, like people say
• 1:07:34
  that, oh, you're just trying to be this other person.
• 1:07:36
  Or, you know, like people have a lot of opinions and they want to
• 1:07:39
  say them because they think that hiding behind a screen makes
• 1:07:42
  them immune to that kind of thing.
• 1:07:44
  And that's its own sort of issue.
• 1:07:46
  But you know, I used to get very in in my head about the content
• 1:07:51
  that I would post. Like you were saying, you know,
• 1:07:53
  you learn to have fun with it over time.
• 1:07:54
  But I think in in the beginning, you sort of think, how are
• 1:07:56
  people going to see me? And, and what if this is just a
• 1:07:58
  stupid idea and it doesn't work out?
• 1:08:01
  I've quite quite quickly stopped caring about those things.
• 1:08:05
  You know, I used to think, what if I posted a video and it
• 1:08:07
  doesn't do well. No one cares.
• 1:08:08
  Only you notice no one's looking at your view account except you,
• 1:08:11
  you know, I like, and just just understanding that like, no,
• 1:08:15
  everybody's so busy caring about themselves that no one really
• 1:08:18
  cares about you in in that way. No one's looking at your numbers
• 1:08:23
  and thinking, well, that's really pathetic.
• 1:08:25
  No, no one's seeing a hate comment and thinking, Oh, that's
• 1:08:30
  justified. You know, it's only that person
• 1:08:32
  who's left it. So I think it's just not not
• 1:08:34
  caring so much about what other people think because a lot of
• 1:08:36
  the time people don't have the time to even form a thought
• 1:08:39
  about you that's negative. They're just scrolling on,
• 1:08:42
  minding their business, and they're just doing their own
• 1:08:44
  thing. It really, I got to say, it's
• 1:08:47
  really refreshing to hear all of this in your opinion on these
• 1:08:50
  things. I could talk to you forever
• 1:08:51
  about these things, but I don't want to take up all of your
• 1:08:54
  time. But thank you.
• 1:08:56
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
• 1:08:59
  you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:09:00
  Oh. I have so many projects.
• 1:09:02
  I'm so excited. I have a new song coming out
• 1:09:05
  very soon, which I'm hoping to announce the release date of in
• 1:09:09
  the next week or two. OK, I'm just waiting for it to
• 1:09:12
  be mastered and then it's done. So I'm very excited and I'm
• 1:09:16
  working on a collaboration with one of my really good friends as
• 1:09:19
  well. I'll be heading to his studio in
• 1:09:22
  a couple of weeks to work on that.
• 1:09:24
  So hopefully that's something I can give some updates and some
• 1:09:26
  teases about as when we get there.
• 1:09:31
  And yeah, I think, you know, I'm just, I'm writing so much music
• 1:09:34
  and I'm in such a good place at the moment where I'm very lucky
• 1:09:38
  to not have any writer's block at the moment.
• 1:09:39
  And I'm just making so much stuff.
• 1:09:41
  And I'm having a lot of fun with posting snippets.
• 1:09:45
  I mean, there's been quite a few tick tocks recently where I've
• 1:09:47
  written something and then 20 minutes later I've posted it.
• 1:09:49
  So I've been really enjoying just writing stuff and then just
• 1:09:52
  putting it out in the world and seeing what sticks because
• 1:09:54
  that's given me a really good idea of what I want to actually
• 1:09:56
  do something with going forward. So I'm just, I'm hoping to have
• 1:10:01
  so much music out this year and I don't plan on stopping at any
• 1:10:06
  point soon. I'm just having so much fun with
• 1:10:09
  it. And yeah, I'm sure there's
• 1:10:11
  there's so many more things that will that will come up.
• 1:10:13
  I'm sure that I'm not even thinking about right now.
• 1:10:16
  I've been like a master at keeping secrets over the last
• 1:10:19
  year. I've because I feel like there's
• 1:10:20
  just so much going on that I can't quite disclose yet.
• 1:10:23
  But yeah, lots of music plans and hopefully all going well.
• 1:10:30
  I will have a couple of gigs this year if I if I can manage
• 1:10:33
  that. I'm emailing venues and hoping
• 1:10:35
  for the best. And so, yeah.
• 1:10:38
  I'll be there for sure. Yeah.
• 1:10:42
  Thank you so much for being on the show, for just sharing your,
• 1:10:45
  your, your knowledge, your mindset.
• 1:10:47
  It's been, it's been a lot of fun hearing just about your
• 1:10:51
  progress and, and how your mind works and stuff.
• 1:10:53
  Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
• 1:10:56
  Absolute pleasure. And to all the listeners of
• 1:10:59
  Christian Reef Podcast, make sure you go out of your way to
• 1:11:01
  check out Mia's music. It's available everywhere right
• 1:11:04
  now. Mia, Carmen, go check it out.
• 1:11:06
  And as always, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next
• 1:11:10
  one.