Latest / Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries / #465: Fred's New Frontier, Artemis Landing Zones & Ryugu's Revealing Secrets

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#465: Fred's New Frontier, Artemis Landing Zones & Ryugu's Revealing Secrets · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi there, Thanks for joining us on another episode of
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Uncley, your host, and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: great to have your company, as I tend to say,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: well you know, I ever say it's not great to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: have your company. You know. We're done for now. Who
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: was that voice in the background. Now? We a lot
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to talk about today, and one of those things is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the future of Fred. Yes, Fred's future it's about to change.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Is he leaving us? Tell you in a minute, Artemis.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Three landing sites have been announced. There are I think
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: about nine of them. We're going to look at some
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: new data from the asteroid Reugu, which could shed more
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: light on how life ended up here. And the study
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of Titan's moon Saturn's moon Titan. They're saying it might
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: rewrite planetary science. That's a biggie all coming up on
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the next episode of Space Nuts right now.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Fifteen, Channel ten nine ignition sig Wes Space Nuts or
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: three two one Space Nurse.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Hasn't I reported? Neil Good and here he is to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: tell all Professor Fred, what's hell out bread?
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Are you doing? Andrew? Good to see you again.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Good to see you too. My question should be how
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you doing? Because today's a big day for you.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: It is, Yes, it's a it's a day of some
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: note in my life. But the story starts actually on
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the sixteenth of July nineteen seventy three when I became
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: a staff astronomer at the Royal Grandwich Observatory in the
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: United Kingdom, because that is when I joined the British
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Public Service, and effectively i've been there ever since except
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: it switched to the Australian Public Service in twenty ten,
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: so I've been a public servant Andrew for fifty one
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: years and from my and it comes to an end today.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: So so my role as the nation's astronomer, the Australian
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Government's Astronomer at large, which I've had since twenty eighteen,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: so it's six years that i've been in that job.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: It's coming to an end. So I am going to
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: leave the public service. I'm not leaving astronomy. I'm moving
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: to a new role in one of the universities here
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: in Sydney, which I'm extremely excited about. But it means
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: that i'll be able to well, certainly be able to
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: carry on with space. Nothing will change there. But it
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: also does mean that from outside the government, when you're
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: working not in the government, but you're working outside, you
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: might be able to have more influence, believe it or not,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: in terms of advocating for the way we hope Australian
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: astronomy will go. Getting the message out that astronomy is
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: a good thing and that people like it and want
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: it to be supported. All of that's easier to do
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: outside the government than inside. So in that regard, it's
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: a good thing. I'm sad about it. Of course, thirty
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: first of October twenty twenty four is as notable as
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: the sixteenth of July nineteen seventy three. Yeah, so it's
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: you know what I'm I guess I'm sad about is
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: the colleagues that I've worked with over the last six
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: and a half years, six years and four months. A
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: fabulous bunch of people. Public servants are that they're a
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: breed on their own. I guess they essentially, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: provide all the information that the government needs to make
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: up its mind on its policies, and they are very
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: very professional about it, and they're nice people. I've had
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: made some great friendships with the people down in Canberra,
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: which is where I've been based. Although I live in Sydney,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: so it's all been done over the internet. But yeah,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: we had a little party yesterday down I was down
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: there yesterday, drove back yesterday afternoon. We had a bit
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: of a celebration, some cake and nice coffee and things
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: like that. And they bit me on the way. There's
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: another one today actually last day. In fact, immediately after
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: this podcast recording, I'll be joining my colleagues online just
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: to say a virtual farewell to the ones who are
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: scattered over the country. There are people in Western Australia,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: South Australia, all over the place.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Wow. Gee, it's the end of an era, Fred, And
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I'd say congratulations, first of all for all of those
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: decades in astronomy and surviving that long in the public service.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: That's a feed in itself. But I suppose the good
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: news is that you are not retiring. We want to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: make that a very solid point. This is not the
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: end of your astronomy career, because if it was, you'd
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: go from being an astronomer at large to a large astronomer.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Oh yes, that's probably right. So I I actually should
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: just highlight one of the one of the jokes that
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: one of my colleagues made quite some years ago when
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: I was the new Astronomer at large, because I sent
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: them a photograph. I skipped out for lunch down on
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: the beach one day here in the Northern Beaches and
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: came back and took to them online and said, I said,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: this is where I had lunch. And this gentleman his
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: name was Bence Candreck, really nice guy. He said, oh
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you're you're the astronomer A Laplage turned it into the
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: French version Astronomer on the Beach, which quite like.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: That's very funny. Yeah, And just to prove the point,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: that's not a door behind Fred. If you're watching a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: video stream, that's actually a very well disguised Malibu surfboard.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: It is a most people don't notice that.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Oh that's why I'm in journalism. Yes, got to pick
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: up on these things. Well, we wish you well, Fred,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and there'll be more to announce down the track when
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: things start shift. But yeah, it's been a wonderful, wonderful
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: public service career and you should be very very proud,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm glad I was able to be a part
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  Speaker 1: of that for a few years as well.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Nice to hear and thank you very much for that
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: and I mean you and I are going to go
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: on forever probably, so that's all right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're planning on a couple of billion years because
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: we just so much want to see that collision between
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Andromeda and the Milky Way galaxy. So you're hanging and
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: hanging on for that. Some other exciting news is and
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: this sort of falls at the same time as China
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: has launched a mission to test Moon bricks for their
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: future base up there. The race back to the Moon
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: is really ramping up. The Chinese I think of fired
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a pretty heavy volley that NASA needs to respond to.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is their response, but they've
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: certainly made a major announcement they've looked at key landing
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: sites for Artemus III.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Indeed they have, yes, sir. So this is not really
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: a response to anything. It's just part of the process
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: that the mission planners go through when you are planning
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: something as big as Artemis three, which people will remember
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: is the first landing of humans on the Moon since
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two, and will have four NASA astronauts walking
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: around the South polar region of the Moon. That's what
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: makes this challenging, Andrew, because you know, all the Apollo
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: landings were in the middle latitude region of the Moon,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: where a landscape is relatively flat. There were mountains there,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: there were a few sort of highland peaks that they
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: landed on, but the south pole region of the Moon
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: is quite different. It's very very pop marked with craters,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of mountains, a lot of you know, evidence
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: of past geological history, and of course that's one of
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: the reasons why they're going there to be able to
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: sample the geology of the Moon's south Pole. So the
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: landing zones that have been identified, what they've done is
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: they've they've sorted them out, taking into account factors and
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: I'm quoting NASA here. Factors in the selection process included science, potential,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: launch window, availability, terrain suitability, you don't want to land
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: on a mountaintop, communication capabilities with earth, and lighting conditions,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: so all of those things have to go in the mix.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: What was them, sorry, what was that last one? Lighting conditions?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, because you don't want to be working
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: completely in the dark, and you could be if you're
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: at the Moon's south pole.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Worked out worked out okay for Pink Floyd.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: It did, Yeah, but they you know they were in
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: a different universe. I think so probably will Yeah, so
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: actually I might just continue the quote from NASA because
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: it's a nice way of doing this. Additionally, the team
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: assessed the combined trajectory capabilities of NASA's SLS, the Spence
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Launch System rocket, the Orion spacecraft that's the crew module,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: the equivalent of the Apollo, you know, the Apollo crew capsule,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: and the Starship HLS, which HLS is Human Landing System,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: and of course Starship is the machine that we've seen
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: recently having test flights powered into orbit, in fact by
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: the Falcon super heavy booster which made that spectacular landing
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: last month. Is this month's being grabbed by the chopsticks.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: So all that's got to come together to ensure safe
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: and accessible landing sites. The Artemis three geology team I'm
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: still reading, evaluated the landing regions for their scientific prop
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: with sites within each of the nine identified regions have
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: the potential to provide key new insights into our understanding
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: of rocky planets, lunar resources, and the history of our
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Solar system. So it's really big picture stuff and all
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: of that feeds into the decision as to where you
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: put the next landing site on the Moon.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm guessing this strategic value in being on
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: the North or South Pole is an ico. Therefore you
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: can get water, therefore you can make rocket fuel.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I think that's it in a nutshell, Andrew. The South
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Pole is a place where we know there is water
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: ice from orbital measurements and actually the Indian spacecraft that
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: was was it an Indian one I think contact with Yeah,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: it crashed into the surface and you could see water,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: the signature of water in the in the plume that
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: resented from that. So yes, that's what sets it. South Pole,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: apart from the North Pole, is actually much rockier, much more,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: much more creceard, and the craters are deep enough that
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: we think there is what you might call primordial water,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: water that was dumped there by comets. You know, it's
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: the water that was originally in the gas cloud that
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: formed the Solar system, so quite quite a legacy.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And just what would you like to get hold of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: some of that and melt it down and have a drink.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Well, we I think we did a discussion about that,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: didn't we about whether it will be drinkable. I'd be
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: up for it, Yeah, I'd be game a bit of
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: moon water. You never know what it might do to
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: your insides. But hopefully I grow some some antennas or
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: something like that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe or you'll turn into cheese and.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: More already cheese.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned India and that just sort of
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: prompted a memory, a thought in my mind. Hugh in
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the studio messaged me the other day. So we've picked
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: up some strong audience indicators from from India. So hello
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: to all our Indian listeners. Believe it or not, I
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: will be in India in about a month, so I'll
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: look look out for me. I'll be I'll be wearing
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: this shirt. He's only got one shirt, folks, Sally shirt
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I've got. So yes, I'll be visiting several places throughout
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: India while i'm over there, so that'll be lovely. But
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: if you're in India, salutations, thanks for watching, and sorry
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: about the cricket. Yeah they got they got hammered by
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: New Zealand's right, yeah, unheard of, unheard of, and then
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: they've got they've got to follow that up with a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: tour of Australia. So yeah, but we haven't won. We
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: haven't won the trophy from them in quite a long time,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: so this will be a key series for both sites,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: So looking forward to that. My favorite sport to watch
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: on TV is cricket.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, love forget that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, so Artemis three landing sites, but we still don't
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: know when do we?
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Late twenty twenty six is my guess. I think for
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: that crude landing late next year for Artemis two, which
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: will be you know, a crude flight but warm land
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: on the Moon. It will go around them, it'll do
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: an Apollo eight, the Sally alone.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Oh there it is by yeah bye, except Christmas all way,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Christmas Christmas Day, it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Was it was I remember it well, yeah, nineteen sixty age, Yeah, yep.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Gosh, so long ago, so long ago. Yeah. Okay, if
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you would like to look into that little story about
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the Artemis two Atamis three landing sites, it's on well
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: it's on all sorts of stories, but you can get
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: it at space connect online, dot com dot au. This
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Broad Space Nuts.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Now, Fred, we're going to revisit the asteroid Reugu, which
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: we've spoken about a couple of times, but it's in
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the news again because they've been able to do a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: bit more study on the on the stuff that was
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: brought back. I think was a Japanese mission, was it not?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Indeed?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And they have found out some interesting things and it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: all sort of leads to piecing together the puzzle of
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: life on Earth.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Indeed it does, and so was Jacks of the Japanese
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Space Agency who's higher books of two mission collected samples
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: from Riugu and return them to Earth in twenty twenty.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: And then in fact we in Australia played the party
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: in that the Space Agency had a role in that,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: because I think I'm right in saying that they returned
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: to Earth not far from Boomera in South Australia.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right, now, it must have been a different
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: mission where I thought we just made the sausage rolls
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: for the party afterwards.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: A bit there, Okay, yeah, yes, that was a serious rex.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I think that you're thinking, which was a nasubmission and
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: we did make the sausages.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: So, but you know, twenty twenty, that's four years ago.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: It takes a long time to analyze these samples and
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: get the detail. But there is some really interesting news
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: from one of the French universities actually where some of
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: the researchers are based, along with some researchers from the
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Upper University in the UK, and it turns out that
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: there are grains of something that is called HAMP.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Not hemp, you preempted me.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and is an acronym for hydrated ammonium magnesium
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: and phosphorus rich and phosphorus. Yeah, hydrated ammonium magnesium and
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: phosphorus h A m p H. And it turns out
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: that that is a compound that is highly soluble in water.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: And if you're trying to get nutrients into you know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: living organisms that are formed on a water base, and
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: all life on Earth is water based, that this is
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: a really important way of doing it to have something
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: that will easily dissolve. And so the suggestion is that
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: we know that these asteroids like Riugu are remnants of
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: the early material of the Solar system there, you know,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: the sort of scraps of dusts that were left over
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: when the planets formed, and it's the raw material of
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: planets that we looking at, really, but it means that
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: if they are rich in these hydrated ammonium magnesium and phosphorus,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: and that's a soluble basically a soluble thing. Maybe in
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: the very early Earth when it was being bombarded from
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: all sides by asteroidal material like this, maybe that's where
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: these chemicals came from that provided nutrients for any early
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: life forms. Basically as Psyitech Daily which has reported this,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: as they say, creating the right conditions for life to emerge.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: I might quote actually if I may, from doctor Richard Greenwood,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: who's at the Open University in the UK. Richard says,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: our study reveals how the building blocks of life were
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: likely transported from the outer Solar System to Earth. Material
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: returned from primitive asteroids like Riugu is providing new insights
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: into how our planet was transformed from a barren in
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the hospitable world to a water rich oasis continuing all
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: the ingredients needed for life to emerge very nicely.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like I always equate life to being
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: always out there and potentially available if the conditions are right,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: if the place is right, if everything's right, life will
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: will find a way. And I back that up with
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: you know how weeds will grow just about anywhere they
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: damn alive. But it's true, like I've seen weeds growing
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: in the weirdest places, but they got a foothold because
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the conditions were right and they found somewhere to grow.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, you can take that little
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: weed analogy and turn it into a planetary evolution. I
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: honestly believe that. And I think everything, all the formulas
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that exist to create life, it exist across the universe
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: is just a matter of finding somewhere to plant it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And we just happen to be one of the or
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the only place so far where we can confirm life exists.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: It's not very bright, but it's here. We are here.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: It's got lots of hampers, well sorry, hamp not hemp.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: A lot.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I think you're probably right. It has to be said
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: that we simply don't know whether that's the case or not.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: But that's I think a very plausible assumption. I think
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: it's a reasonable thing to assume that if the conditions
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: are right, life will start.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I'm just turning my fan on because it's getting quite
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: warm in my office today because I think we're going
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to hit thirty something degrees today and it's starting to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: magnify through my window. Yeah, but Riugu's probably been a
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: keystone mission in trying to solve these riddles. Of life,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and it keeps, as you say, it keeps coming up
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: with new information the more they they study it. When
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you know, when they first got the samples back, they
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: went out's dirt and the Kitcat wrapper. So you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: they've come a long way in four years.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: I wonder if anybody's analyzed the KitKat wrapper that could.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Be that, you know, that that that's more weight to
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: string theory. I think maybe I would, Yes, it certainly would.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Is there more to learn from rig?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: I'm sure this is ongoing research. You know, we've learned
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: a lot about it, not just the what it's made of,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: but we've learned a lot about that particular class of
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: asteroids that Ugu is a part of. It's a it's
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: a rubble pile, and you know, just the images that
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: came back from it showing this object shape like an
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: old fashioned spinning top that was sort of like two
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: cones back to back, and that now we think is
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: the characteristic shape for rubble pile asteroids. So all that
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: sort of thing comes from studies that have been made.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: I think that there's probably still more to come from
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the you know, from the soil samples too.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: It also suggested that UGU could be evidence of how
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Earth's got it's water. And we've talked about this many
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: times because there's all sorts of different theories about where
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: the water came from. It's possible all of them are correct,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: but one of them was the fact that as the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: planet came together, all of that staff already had water
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: in it, which eventually leached out and became the oceans
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and the ice caps and everything else.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: I think you're right. I think it is a mixture
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: of that, plus you know, comets coming in and dumping
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: water into the into the environment, to the planet. Yeah,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: So I think, and I guess what supports that is.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: We know that the isotopic ratios on Earth's water, the
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: ratio of normal water to heavy water quite much, most
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: of the isotopic ratios in commons except in a few cases.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: So there's obviously a mixed foot, you know, a mixture
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: of foot there as well. So I think you're right.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's probably a combination.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Interesting all right. So, yes, lots has been learned from
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: asteroid Reyuga, but there's probably more to come. But it
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: certainly seems that it's carrying evidence to show that we
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: are here because of those kinds of collisions in the
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: deep dark past. And if you'd like to read about it,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: it's as Fred said on the SYE Tech Daily website,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: space Nuts, and that story dovetails beautifully into our final story,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: which is also on si Tech Daily. And this is
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: some information they've uncovered about the moon Titan, which is
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: one of Saturn's largest moons, and what they've found out,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and this I'll steal straight from the headline, could rewrite
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: planetary science thread. That's a big call.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: It is, yes, it's but it's really interesting results. And
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: you're right, Titan is well, it's the largest of Saturn's moons.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: It's the second largest moon in the Solar System after Ganymede,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: which is Jupiter's biggest moon. So what's the story here?
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: And this comes from research carried out by scientists at
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: the University of Hawaii at Manoah place I know reasonably
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: well from when I used to have to observe on
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: the summit of mard Care back in the day. These
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: scientists have noted that compared with and indeed compare with
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: moons like Ganymede, they Titan has fewer craters than Ganymede
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: by a long shot, and also that they are the
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: ones that are there, and they can only identify ninety
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: of them. That's much less than Ganymede and most of
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: the other moons with craters. It shows that sorry, sorry,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: of the craters and the ninety craters that have been
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: found on Titan, it turns out that they are much
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: shallower than what you would expect and what you find
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: on other moons. So you've got few craters and the
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: ones that are there are shallow. And so what these
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: scientists have done is put those two facts together, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: one of the scientists is quoted as saying, this was
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: very surprising because based on other moons, we expect to
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: see many more impact craters on the surface and that
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: are much deeper than what we observe on Titan. We
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: realized something unique to Titan must be making them become
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: shallower and disappear relatively quickly. And that's at the heart
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: of what planetary scientists do when they look at a
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: surface of the Moon, I, a moon or a planet.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: It's the number of craters that you can see that
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: tell you how old the surfaces. The older the surface,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: the more craters you've got. So the sun, sorry, the
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Moon is certainly a south polar region where it's heavily craated.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: That's a very old surface. Indeed, it goes back to
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the first billion years of the Solar System. And yet
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: on Titan we're looking at something quite different. Now we
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: know that ice worlds like Titan, and by that I
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: mean a world that is a rocky core, an ocean
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: overlaying it and ice overlaying the ocean. Worlds like that
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: do tend to have relatively recent surfaces because the surface
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: is constantly being modified by sometimes by plumes of ice
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: that come up through cracks in the surface, as we
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: find on Enceladus and Europa, but also just because of
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: the you know the fact that if you've got an
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: icy surface, it's subject to different geological processes from what
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: rock would be. It doesn't preserve, it doesn't preserve structures
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: anywhere near as well. But on Titan and Gannymite too
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: has an ice surface. We believe that it's an ice
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: world as well. Yet it's got far more creators than
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Titan does. So that's a really interesting judgment that's been made.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: We realize something unique to Titan must be making them
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: become shallower and disappear relatively quickly. And so what they've
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: done is they've done a lot of computer modeling and
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: sort of suggested that maybe there is an insulating layer
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: on the outside of the ice. And what they're pointing
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: to is something called methane clath rate. Cloth rate is
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: basically methane is water ice, but with methane gas trapped
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: in it, which gives it a different formation and different properties.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So you know, it's much more of an insulator than
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: the ice would be. And so they've modeled it and
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: they find that the likelihood is that there is a
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: layer of methane clath rates a crust which is five
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to ten kilometers three to six miles thick, because that produces,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you know, the computer simulations that produces the crater depths
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: that are actually most like the ones that we find
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: in reality.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And are they suggesting that the atmosphere of Titan is
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: coming from deep inside with an insulating layer of water ice?
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Did I read correctly or I've got my wires crust?
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I think they there's certainly a comment in the article
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: that I've read that, and in fact I might quote
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: from it. This is from Cyitec Daily. They say, estimating
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: the thickness of the methane ice shell is important because
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: it may explain the origin of Titan's methane rich atmosphere
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: and helps researchers understand Titan's carbon cycle. It's liquid methane
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: based hydrological cycle and changing climate. You know, it's a
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: really interesting, really interesting world because we can study climate change,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: you know, from the outside. Another quote from the lead
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: author in this paper, Titan is a natural laboratory to
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: study how greenhouse how the greenhouse gas methane worms and
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: cycles through the atmosphere. There you go.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I highlighted that exact quote. And they even compare
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: what's happening on Titan to what's happening in regard to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the perma frost of Siberia. So even on Earth we're
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: witnessing these kinds of cycles.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, and once again, you know, it points
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: to I think it enhances the possibility that we might
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: find life in the Titan's liquid water ocean because the
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: temperature is probably a bit higher than we thought it
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: was because he's got this insulating layer on the outside.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: So exciting stuff.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Ah, Yes, that would be a thrill to find life
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: on Titan. Of course, they've got some missions slated for
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: studying titans undersurface ocean and look for biomarkers and learn
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: more about it. It's pretty exciting time. Of course, We've
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: we've got missions Europa clippers on its way. Yeah, there's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: there's so much to learn out there, and it just
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: never ever can say no, there's no life anywhere else,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: because there might be something there. We hope we find
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it or at least indicators of it. We found indicators
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: of potential life, have we not?
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, which, but that's the trouble. You know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: what we call biomarc is these indicators, they're not it's
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: really hard to pin them down to be things that
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: could only occur because of life rather than you know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: through normal sort of chemistry rather than biochemistry.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Indeed, all right side Tech Daily again, as we mentioned,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: is where you can read up on that story of Titan.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Although I've noticed that the story has been popping up
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: on all sorts of news platforms because it's pretty exciting
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to find out something that might be a bit different
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: than what we first thought, so you might want to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: check that out. It brings us to the end of
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the show, Fred, Thank you, and not only for today,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: but for the last five hundred million years that you've
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: been doing your job.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: It must feel like I feel like.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I only did it twenty two years in the public service,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and it felt like a lot longer. But looking back,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it just happened so fast.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: You know, it's that's right, I have to say, Andrew.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: You know I've not been a real public servant because
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: I've been an astronomer first and foremost. But I'm paid
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: from the public person. That makes me a public servant.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: It's mixing with real professional public servants as I have
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: done over the last six years. That teaches me a
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: lot actually about how the public service works and what
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: I should have been doing for the forty nine years
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: before that.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It generally works with an eight ur coffee break when
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you get to work, and then I can go from there.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I will go there.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: You can tomorrow, Yes, come tomorrow. Yeah, that's right, all right,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks Fred, We'll catch up doing jeans.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: It sounds great.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks Andrew, Professor fured Wat's an astronomer at large. And
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: thanks to Hugh in the UDIO for keeping it all together.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Because if there is a problem, Hugh's name is spelled
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Huw and we just type huw st o N we
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: have a problem. Figure that one out And for me
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Andrew Donkley, thanks for your company. Don't forget to check
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: out our website, check out our social media platforms, check
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: out our shop, all via our website or Facebook or
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Instagram or whatever, and we'll catch you on the very
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: next episode of Space Nuts soon see you then bye bye.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: You'll be listening to the Space Nuts podcast available at
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast player. You
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: can also stream on demand at bytes dot com. This
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.