Latest / Skin Anarchy / Amy Gordinier, founder and CEO of Skinfix

Transcript

Amy Gordinier, founder and CEO of Skinfix · Skin Anarchy

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: This is Ecta, and I am super excited about my guest today.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, her line is truly phenomenal.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: So uh without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Amy Gordonnier.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh welcome, Amy.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's the founder of Skinfix.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: So I'm so, so excited.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure a lot of you have heard of Skinfix.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: So uh hi, Amy.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're here.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Ecta.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: It's so great to be here.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me on Skincare Anarchy.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it is truly my honor.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Your products are phenomenal.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, Amy, I I can't tell you how how happy I am to see a line that really genuinely works for like so many like skin issues, right?
0:46
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna rant.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: I want you to get started and I want you to tell us all about your background and your beauty journey and how you got to the place where you wanted to create skin fixed.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, my beauty journey started probably when I was a little girl because my father actually worked in the manufacturing facility for Estee Lauder back in the 1970s when I was a little girl, and he used to come home and I would be so fascinated by all his lotions and potions.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: And he would take me to the factory and you know, watch the lipsticks being molded.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: And I was just totally captivated.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: And then after I graduated, I was a religion major in university.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: So what was I gonna do with that major uh comparative religion?
1:29
SPEAKER_01: So I went to New York and started applying for jobs in beauty because why not?
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Beauty's such a fun space and was really, really lucky to get a job with L'Oreal, um, which I'm sure you know is sort of like beauty boot camp.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm sure you've heard it's a it's a really rigorous place to cut yeah.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I've I've heard that whoever comes out of L'Oreal, like they really know their stuff at the end of all that.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So that is what I know.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, at 22 years old, they sit you in conference rooms with you know senior people, and you're you're expected to contribute and you just listen and you learn and you absorb so much, and they teach you how to run a PL and how to do you know advertising and how to create product and how to manage cost of goods.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's unreal.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: So I was there for close to five years, and then they kicked me out to get my MBA.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: They said, okay, you know, you've got enough experience, but you really need some more finance and statistics experience.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: And then I started, um, I came back and worked for Cody for a couple years, and then eventually um went to the UK.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to live abroad and had an amazing experience working for Joe Malone right after.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, Joe Malone is I'm sorry, I just totally had a moment.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: It is my favorite perfume brand.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, concept.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: I just I'm yeah, uh I'm obsessed.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, go ahead.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Really?
2:55
SPEAKER_01: No, she no, absolutely.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: You have to have a moment over Joe Malone.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, she created indie fragrance.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she was the first, and she loved like crazy things that you would never think to put in fragrance, like lime basil mandarin and nutmeg and ginger.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: She started the whole indie fragrance revolution.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: She's a genius, she's also just a really amazing mentor and woman, and she was an aesthetician by training, actually.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: So um I learned a lot about skincare from Jo.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Funnily enough, we had skincare in her stores in London, and she still gave facials back uh when I worked with her, but worked with her for about uh almost five years, and um then I got pregnant with my first baby uh 17 years ago and moved to eastern Canada where my husband is from.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I thought, well, that's it, I've left beauty behind.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: And after living here, and I was a stay-at-home mom for a few years, and then I met a woman who had this incredible healing balm formula that her great-great-grandfather had created in Yorkshire, England in 1870.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah, sort of like a Keel story, you know, it was like that's so cool, yeah.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: It was really cool.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: And the formula was an anhydrous balm.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: It's still in our line, it's our Eggsama Targeted Body Balm.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: But it um it was loaded with active pharmaceutical ingredients.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, having worked for the big beauty companies, I was used to sort of picking one active and building a story around it.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And this thing was just loaded with actives.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: But over the decades, the family had emigrated to Canada in the early 1900s.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: They'd been making it at home and they had literally collected ECTA, like hundreds of letters from people who had tried everything, seen doctors, all kinds of modalities to treat really serious skin stuff like diabetic foot ulcers and psoriasis and eczema.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And they had found this little bomb from 1870, and it had worked to treat skin issues.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's that is the coolest story in the world, dude.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Seriously, like I'm just like imagining like this old apothecary and like just this beautiful.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's so cool.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: It was it was amazing, and you know, the idea that a clean product that was created in 1870 could truly be medically efficacious, like not just you know, being a nice skincare product, but truly be as effective as an OTC or even a prescription.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: That just turned my crank.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, you know, I believe in clean, I believe it can be as effective as a prescription.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: And that was the genesis of skin fix.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I love that.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I just want to take a minute to talk about what you just said because that's so hitting the nail on the head is that it, you know, over-the-counter stuff, like when I look at skincare, genuinely, one of my biggest um, you know, like intriguing points of this industry is that these are like new options in, you know, medical health, like medical, you know, just overall right skin health, uh, body health.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And nobody wants to talk about that because there's so much research that can come from the these products that you guys are creating.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, your line is phenomenal.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got so many products that work for not only people who want just normal skincare, you've got products that work for people who are actually having skin pathologies.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And they might not be able to afford a dermatologist or, you know, so, anyways, rant over, but yeah, continue.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: I just want, I just think that's amazing.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's amazing.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: I love that you rant about that because it's it's honestly what gets us up every morning at Skin Fix is this idea that, you know, active natural ingredients, active clean ingredients can be truly effective.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one of the things that we did early days is I took the original bomb to a dermatologist and I asked her what she thought of it.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: And she said, you know, I love the ingredients.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I love the fact it has no fragrance, no essential oils, and it's treating all of these um sort of symptoms of eczema, but I will never recommend it without some sort of clinical validity.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And so she and I did our first clinical together in her office with 10 patients that had moderate to severe eczema.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And then we went on to do a second study and compared the bomb to a 1% steroid cream, which is what she would prescribe normally over the counter.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And so that set us on our journey of really clinically proving that our products work.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're going to treat a medical skin issue and you're gonna have the medical community back you up, you really need to prove it with science.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And I think we were really ahead of our time with that in terms of, you know, I don't, I still don't think to this day there are any clean brands at Sephora that have the clinical efficacy we have.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, I know there aren't, and certainly not.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: We've got five studies that have been published in peer-reviewed journals, and derms are actually prescribing products to treat rosacea and eczema.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of a revolution for a clean.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really fun.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: I love that you know what, it's not just a revolution for clean, it's it's a revolution for uh fixing the word clean.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Like it's I think you guys are literally doing everything that I wish every clean brand would do, which is just focus on the science of it all.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's amazing what you just said.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you brought up the peer-reviewed journals because for me, the biggest hot point right now in terms of the medical aspect of skin health is that there seems to be a disconnect between dermatologists and medical practitioners and the PhDs and the real, you know, the minds behind the innovations that lead to medical discovery, right?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So, like there's this disconnect between academia and clinical medicine.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I see a lot of the germs saying things like, well, you know, I can't, we don't believe in skin care.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: We don't believe, well, you should believe in research then.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
8:47
SPEAKER_00: So this is my point is what you're doing is working, and that is truly the heart of medical discovery.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I think skincare is much more important than it's being, you know, given credit for.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I think as we move forward, there are going to be so many topical medications.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are so many things that can be delivered as effectively, if not more effectively, topically.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at things like uh magnesium, which I take topically at night.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I use a magnesium spray at night, and it works for me a lot better than taking a pill.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: So I think you're absolutely right.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: There's going to be um even more research done in topicals.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And in the same vein, there are a lot of topicals that are not, in my opinion, formulated um the right way.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And this idea of leaning in and putting as much of an active into a product as physically possible, you know, this 20% niacinamide and all of this craziness that's going on right now, that's also problematic because your skin is a porous organ and it it does get into the bloodstream.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So it's, you know, it's this fine balance of really understanding that topicals can be super effective, but also that topicals need to be carefully formulated, you know, and appropriately dosed.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I think there's definitely so much merit in everything you said because that's the main argument is that, you know, skincare people are using it and they're overusing it.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And these are very, very strong products and it's causing damage more than anything.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: But again, like you said, it it truly is a game of science mixed with, you know, discovery.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to think outside of the box.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, I I want to dive into your products because I would love to hear how you came up with the first product and you know, just the whole journey of the brand.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, truly, you've ever I feel like every product you guys have come out with is just like you know, it's almost revolutionary in the space.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I want to start from the beginning.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes me very happy to hear because that's what we endeavor to do.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't launch something if it's a Me Too.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: If it's something that already exists and somebody else has done it well and it's in a clean way, we don't we don't go there.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: We don't that's why we haven't done sunscreen.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's why we don't do retinol.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, because there's a lot of those on the market that we think are great.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: So we try to find white space in areas where people need products to treat conditions and there aren't solutions, and that's where we play.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, the very first product.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: So the balm was the original SKU, and that still exists in the line, targeted body balm, which is a really targeted treatment for eczema.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Think about a sort of clean alternative to hydrocortisone or steroid.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: And then as we were working with the dermatologists, I sort of solicited their thoughts on what do you need?
11:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, what's the sort of next product that you really need to treat eczema?
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Because eczema was our first focus.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: And they said a lot of derms said, you know, eczema affects 77% of people that have eczema have it on their hands, and the hands are really exposed.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And there are no good hand creams.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: There are no creams that have the proper combination of humectants, emollients, and occlusives that have no fragrance, no essential oil.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: That is super important when you're treating skin issues.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't believe in them in topicals anyway, but certainly not with that damaged skin barrier.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, has the proper actives to treat a condition like eczema.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: So hand repair cream was the first product that I created on my own with our chemist.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: And again, based on the recommendation of the derms.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: And we sort of carried on with that philosophy.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: We we learned a lot from the dermatologist community about where the pain points were, where they needed products that their patients would use.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: One of the issues in dermatology is getting patients to be compliant.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, if it's a sort of drugstore product that doesn't smell very nice and doesn't look very nice, they're not going to use it.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So to have a beautiful, beauty award-winning product that actually is also helping to, you know, treat severe acute symptoms of eczema or rosacea or KP is really kind of the sweet spot for them.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: So we just followed their lead.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: We built out a whole complement of products for eczema, then we tackled rosacea, which is a big pain point for them.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we ended up moving on to KP, keratosis polaris, which affects 80% of us at some point in our lives.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: It's those little red bumps behind our arms, the backs of our legs.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have those.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Very, very common.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there aren't a lot of good sort of over-the-counter, certainly not clean uh products to treat KP appropriately, because again, a lot of a lot of sal acid lotions are loaded with sal acid, and um, KP is actually closer to eczema than it is to acne.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: It's about it's a dry skin issue.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's really important to have a lot of emollients and enough chemical exfoliance to unclog the hair follicle, but not too much, which can be irritating.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: So it's about the balance.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: So, and then what we discovered was that every condition that we were tackling, um, it there was a common thread.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: It all went back to some deficiency in the skin barrier and specifically in the lipids and the skin barrier.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: So, eczema is a deficiency of ceramides, rosacea is a deficiency of fatty acids.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: And so then we we sort of got fascinated with this idea of barrier health and barrier repair.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: And how do we create a healthier skin barrier so that people are less prone to have these conditions in the first place?
14:11
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we came up with our barrier line, which is our best place.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just sitting here and I'm really, really like enjoying that you are so deeply rooted in science.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: And you know, what one thing that's crossing my mind is that, you know, when I recently did a I published a review on aquaporins, and I found that there are certain aquaporins that are upregulated in the skin um barrier, which is, you know, interesting when you look at like burn wound patients, right?
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Because for burn wound patients, you need to apply something topical.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: It everything is topical, right?
14:42
SPEAKER_00: So when I think about what you're doing and when I think about, you know, the steps you're taking, I'm in my head, I'm like, well, this could be another step towards that, figuring out how to help with that and the cascades that are, you know, contributing to things that are really affecting these patients.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: So that's, you know, my again, my point is like, you know, you're, I feel like what you're doing is a better option in a lot of ways than going to a dermatologist and getting a prescription cream because let's be honest, you know, being in the medical field, I and on being a person, I guess, on earth, you we're not, you know, devoid of the idea that pharmaceutical companies don't really create things that are like, you know, optimal.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not like we're getting the best of the best.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: We're getting what's gonna sell and we're getting what's gonna, you know, keep consumers coming back and not consumers, but patients coming back and, you know, feeding the system.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very, you know what I mean?
15:35
SPEAKER_00: It's like a very, very deep and multi-layered like reasoning why skin care and these kind of options, over-the-counter options, are just so vital right now in medical health.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: I so agree with you.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: There was a Durham conference that we were at in I think 2018, where there was a Durham that got up to to talk about a new product launch from one of the big pharma companies that was a topical to treat eczema.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: And it had a lot of what I would call dirty ingredients in it, things that, you know, were not necessary to be in the product.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, it's just laziness, right?
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Because there are better alternatives.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: And then one of the ingredients in this product was propylene glycol.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: And every year, the American Association of Dermatology picks an allergen of the year, you know, kind of ingredient.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: That year was propylene glycol.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking, you know, you're up here presenting this new product, and yet propylene glycol is the allergen of the year, it's all how is that possible?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not that hard, you know, to I completely agree.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's the thing.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: It's it's just like people don't understand, and you know, there's a lot of medical practitioners that are pushing and involved in the pharmaceutical realm of it all.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sorry, you know, it's seeing it up close, there's a lot of times where pharmaceutical options are just not the most optimal for our overall well-being, period.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, why is it that an antidepressant side effect is you know, suicidal tendencies?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about that, right?
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Like 100%.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I do think, you know, that the a lot of the younger derms, because clean has sort of become a movement now and has been, you know, a decade old.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: I do find a lot of the younger residents coming up and and all of the germs we work with really are sort of starting to really dig into ingredients and understand them more and really um wrap their arms around the science of clean and definitely want to see better um choices made by topical um company formula, you know, topical formulators.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: So I do think that it's changing and I think it's changing for the best.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, no, I agree.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I agree with that.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: I think you're absolutely right.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: It's good.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: We are going in the upward direction, you know what I mean?
17:50
SPEAKER_00: That's an upward trajectory.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: I definitely agree.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: But I want to actually, I want to spend some time talking about your products because I know they're very, very um, you know, just coveted products in the industry.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: I know you've received multiple awards, you know.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: I know Allure, um basically you have so many products that have uh won the Allure Award and you know, just so much more.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk about the success and you know how it really came about for the company.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Was it like immediately your consumers were just there and they stayed committed?
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Or how how was that process for you, like from the business perspective?
18:22
SPEAKER_01: That's such a good question, Ecta.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it definitely wasn't the hockey stick, you know, it wasn't the drunk elephant, you know, it cosmetics glacier, straight up trajectory.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the that's the exception.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I often will will mention Supergoop because that brand has been around, I think, 17 or 18 years and has really just like been on fire in the last five.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: But often when you enter white space, like we did, um, there was nobody really, I mean, clean was just sort of happening.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: There was nobody doing anything clinically validated and clean.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: There still really isn't, frankly.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, seven years later, we're still really the only ones that have true clinical advocacy.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: But it was a little bit um, you know, it was hard to break through initially when consumers did find us, they did love us and they stuck with us.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: We do have a lot of brand loyalty because we're tackling and treating skin issues.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, there was just it took a number of years to really educate and for the consumer to kind of get there and really appreciate what we were doing.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: But in the last two years and specifically since launching exclusively with Sephora in April 2019, we've really just exploded.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think this timing, you know, and then it was just this move really back towards clinical efficacy in skincare.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's it's back and it's important, and consumers know the difference between quantitative studies and consumer perception studies.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: They know a lot about ingredients.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: My 17-year-old daughter is just very um you know, well educated and um articulate about ingredients.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, intelligent women raise intelligent women, so she learns a lot from you know, from TikTok and from YouTube.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's it's wonderful.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think in the last two years it's been much more of a hockey stick and much more of an upward trajectory, and it's been really exciting and it's just so rewarding to see that we are reaching people, we are helping people.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, the testimonials that we get are tear jerkers because it's such a psychological component to skin issues, as I'm sure you know.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: And um, people definitely, I mean, and and all on all dermatologists, uh I can't even speak tonight, on all clinical studies in dermatology, there's always a factor for quality of life.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: And there's there are questions about depression and anxiety and sleeplessness, and because it plays a part in skin issues.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: And so when we help someone and we give them back their sense of well-being, their sense of physical comfort, there's a there's an emotional and psychological component to that as well, which is really, really rewarding.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I yeah, I mean, I can completely, completely, you know, vibe with that.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what that must feel like, but it just, you know, one thing I want to say though is your brand, one thing I've loved is that you know, you found a way to connect with your consumer that I haven't really seen before because I remember um I'm a huge fan of your body cream, and it's it's just been a game changer for me.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, the big tub of it, you know, and I use it every single day.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And for me, what really drew me in is that on the very front of the packaging underneath, you have a little, you know, two sentence little thing explaining the role of ceramides in our skin and explaining, like, you know what I mean?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Like you've put this logic out there for consumers to look at and say, you know what?
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to go look up what ceramides are.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I wanna, if somebody's not educated, it's like you've I I feel like you guys are giving that.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That little, you know, hey, here's the hint.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, go look this up and and see exactly why what we're saying is true, you know.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: And I I really like that as a consumer.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: So I thought I'd share that with you.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: So glad you, I mean, we've been sort of quote unquote transparent from the beginning in terms of we list each active ingredient that is at a clinically active level and the percent, and we explain what it is.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And that again comes from our heritage of working with dermatologists who need to know.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: They need to know, you know, if there's something like BHA and somebody could have a sensitivity, they need to know it's in there and they need to know that it's active and it's at a high enough percent that it could cause an issue or that it's highly effective.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's kind of a two-way street.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: It can, you know, in in most cases, we're listing it so that people know, hey, this is at a clinically active level, it's actually going to do something.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: But for people that have sensitivities, it's important as well.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: So I'm so happy that you appreciate that.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because we, you know, for years just thought, oh, our language is really science-y, you know, we use words.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Keep it parenting and declamation and people must think we're such nerds or or just, but I think people are starting to really appreciate it and love it and want to know, you know, what what the mode of action is of all these ingredients.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know, and that and that's the thing, you know, I think people who genuinely take their skin health seriously are gonna be consumers that go out and do the research.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: And I think that if brands can promote that, you know, self like self-discovery and what we need as consumers, I mean, that's uh that's a beautiful thing.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I love that you guys did that.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: I want to actually ask you, um, you know, in terms of just the company overall, like, you know, what has been one of the biggest things that's been a catalyst in your growth?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: Is it like influencer marketing?
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, what what really um did you see was like, you know, a huge impact in how you reached people, like accessibility, I guess.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, two things really stand out for me as the game changers.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: One is Sephora.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are just the most amazing retail partners on the planet.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Our uh head merchant, Sam Lou, is just so smart.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: She knows her stuff, and they are consultants and they have been incredibly helpful to us.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: And their view advisors in store are really second to none.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they just they're so educated, they're passionate, we have so much access to train them and give them information, and they've become just you know advocates for the brand and influencers in their own right.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: So Sephora, just as an organization, has been a total game changer for us.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And then Hiram Yarbrough, Skincare by Hiram, God bless.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: I adore him.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: He's just he's been a total game changer.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had lunch with him uh almost two years ago now.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: I went to Hawaii on vacation with my family, and my daughter and I had lunch with him, and it was before he was on TikTok, and he was sort of just on Instagram, and you know, he was obviously big and influential, but not as big as he is today.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, probably wouldn't have lunch with me again today.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: But we had lunch and he just was lovely, and we didn't really talk about skim fix.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: I asked him a lot of questions actually about sunscreen and Korean sunscreens, and um, we just had a really good chat.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: I gave him a bag of product and he fell in love with a few of our products and just started talking about us and ultimately put us in his best of skincare 2020 roundup.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: And his two of his five favorite moisturizers for 2020 were skin fixed moisturizers, and that just absolutely catapulted us.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, he is, you know, he is incredibly uh powerful in that regard.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, his followers love him and and trust him, I think, first and foremost.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: And he's just so smart and so informed and so fair.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: And if he doesn't like something, he's gonna say it.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And we're just really incredibly blessed that our ethos aligned with his and that he loves some of our products.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's just given us such momentum that other influencers started to pay attention and it just kind of rolls from there.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: So those are the two really key factors.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Sephora, I love that you guys have truly had an organic growth, you know, and that's beautiful because I I remember when I was uh doing some like my influencer pictures, you know, my favorite skincare on my account.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: I remember skin fix would pop up and I'd be like very intrigued, you know, and I never really dug in till later, but then I started seeing you guys everywhere, you know, all the people I was following, you know, they were posting about the whatever product it was in the line that they loved.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, you know, and then I really looked into the brand and I was like, wow, this is this is really cool stuff.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think that influencers like your growth has truly been organic, and you're just a you know, you're a favorite for social media and your favorite for just everyday consumers.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, very well deserved.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And the derm community has really backed us as well and been really um authentic and organic.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of these derms we've worked with for years, and um they've taken to social media and they've got really big followings now, and and we just are very blessed that they talk about us often.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's given us a tremendous um amount of wind at our back, which is which is exciting.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: So I have a question then, Amy, because I know that a lot of people struggle with like, you know, finding their skincare regimen.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of dermatologists right now are promoting minimalism, you know, don't use too much, which I understand, you know, and I get I actually get behind.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of you know, just skin fix and finding the perfect routine for you know a consumer, how do you guys have something in place like on your website or something that can help people figure out what they need?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just that whatever product they buy, it's for all skin types, or you know, how does how is that system set up for the company?
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, act it's a really good good question.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: We don't have uh any sort of um system on our site now.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: We we have wanted to for some time, and it's definitely on the agenda, if not this year for 22.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: We've been sort of working on playing with and tinkering with a much more sort of comprehensive diagnostic tool, if you will.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're not dermatologists, but certainly asking enough questions about not just you know the typical are you dry, are you oily, are you T zone, are you this?
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, more about we're so you're doing it right as the real answer, and she's working on it in the right way.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're trying and we're learning from a lot of the you know of the other sort of D2C brands that are um really about personalization.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: We're learning a lot of interesting things from them, and so we're building something that hopefully will launch probably 22, I would imagine.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: But beyond that, there's absolutely no such thing as a brand or a product that's that's good for all skin types.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't exist in the world, you know.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: As any dermatologist will tell you, and I'm sure you know, I mean, there are people that are allergic to water, so somebody is going to react to everything in your product.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: And so we always say, first of all, we really advocate patch testing, especially if you're using actives.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And we really sort of try to promote this idea of be your own skincare expert, be your own, you know, do your own sort of skincare research.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And it will take some trial and error.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: We have a very liberal return policy.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: We want people to find the right solution for them and to really listen to their skin.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: You know your skin better than anyone, and you know what feels good and you know what looks good in terms of like the response your skin is gonna have to something.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: We try to coach and guide about, you know, tingly is not a good thing.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: If something turns red, that's also not a good thing.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's too active for your skin, it's causing damage to the barrier.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: But in the end of the day, we can't really prescribe a routine.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: We'll give recommendations, but we can't unequivocally say this is gonna work for you.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: We just we never will say that because we don't believe it's true.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: And we believe that that everybody is going to find their own ritual.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna change as they age, it's gonna change with different seasons, it's gonna change if they're traveling or under stress or eating badly or whatever it is, and you might have to tweak your routine to adapt.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I also am a big, big, big believer in diet as being Yes.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: I was actually gonna one of my questions was for you when are we gonna see supplements from Skinfix?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, we've looked at it and I think right now it's just a matter of priorities, or so many topical um products that we still want to launch, but I'm a huge follower of Dr.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Mark Hyman and Dr.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Cole and big believer in functional medicine.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And I do, you know, we do often tell the BAs and Sephora stores, hey, listen, it's often, you know, also connected to diet and there are other factors.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: A topical isn't gonna solve every problem by itself.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's a you know, ideally it's a holistic approach.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: I have teens that, you know, it doesn't always work.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, I can tell them not to eat dairy and sugar all I want for their acne, and they're not gonna listen to me.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: So topical can be really helpful regardless, but it certainly is going to, you're gonna get a better result if you're thinking about things holistically, in my opinion.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: No, and that makes total sense.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: And I completely 100% back up everything you said because genuinely, you know, I think skin health is emerging in realizing that it's a very multifactorial, you know, um, approach that you have to have with your skin's um, you know, integrity and your skin's health and you know, everything.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: So I I think that that has to be like before we jump into like too many supplements, I think there needs to still be a lot of data that's accumulated, you know what I mean?
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Like just to understand like how it impacts skin.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: But I would love to see you guys do that, like supplements, because I think you're one of the few lines that would like do it right.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thank you.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: We've been due the diligence because the supplement industry, as I'm sure you know, is the wild west and very unregulated, and people are able to make outlandish claims and put all sorts of nonsense in their supplements.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: And so I struggle even as a consumer.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, I really take the recommendations of Dr.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Will Cole, Dr.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Mark Hyman, Dr.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Josh Axe.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I really kind of follow their lead because they do the due diligence and the deep dive into supplements because there is a lot of misinformation and really sort of troubling things in the supplement space.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: There's a very, very slippery slope for sure.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a it's a hard, it's a hard area.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I actually want to I I want to move to the another question I had because um I'm wondering how difficult it was to be eczema approved.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, what is the process of that?
32:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we go we go at it from a number of routes.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we work with an organization called the Durham Review Panel, and they're an organization of dermatologists who will look at your ingredient listing without any sort of brand associated or brand name associated, so there's no bias, and they'll vet your listing and they'll um, you know, call out any uh worrisome ingredients with respect to eczema.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's well, actually, they look at all of our products, but specifically with respect to the the you know, eczema condition.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And then we work also with the National Eczema Association, and you know, we also do a lot of research and a lot of um we do a deep dive with with functional medical practitioners as well.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they know a lot about eczema and they know a lot about what's going on with that skin concern.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of and our chemists too, chemists, as you know, they know a lot of people.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, chemists are really, yeah.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: The chemists and doctors have to be pretty much equals in this area, you know, because yeah, chemists are like the backbone of absolutely our chemists will often say to us, you know, we'd be looking at something of concern, and we'll pick some ingredients and bring them to him, and he'll say, No, this is really irritating.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: And I don't recommend you use it.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've seen uh reactions and responses.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: So again, it's like aggregating information from everywhere we can to try to distill it down and bring the best possible solution that's going to have the least potential to do harm.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to first do no harm and then second help.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: But first do no harm is, you know, often as you were saying earlier with some prescription products, it's often, you know, there's there's ingredients in topicals that are causing problems.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know what?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you my own experience real fast.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually, when I was before skincare anarchy, I was, you know, I've always been into skincare and all that stuff, and I've loved going to a dermatologist, but I had gone to a dermatologist in Florida, and I got something um topical because I wanted to make sure that I'm getting, you know, my retinoid from the doctor and all that stuff, right?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: So I went in and he gave me two prescriptions.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: That was one of the worst skin reactions I've ever had in my life.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like I kid you not.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: My face looked literally like a tomato, like a like a raisin tomato hybrid.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it was the weirdest, I mean, terrible.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Like it was terrible.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I guess please laugh because I was laughing at myself and it was terrible, laughing and crying at the same time.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, so my point is I was traumatized by my experience of going to a well-researched dermatologist that was acclaimed in that, you know, in the state, like all that stuff, right?
35:42
SPEAKER_00: So when I look at that and then I compare my results from skincare products that I trust and from founders that I trust, I am as a consumer more inclined to go this route.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: So that's where I think that there's a huge, like, you know, we were talking about steroids earlier, right?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Steroids are terrible for your skin.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: They thin your skin out, they cause all sorts of you know downstream effects because they cause this anti-inflammatory, you know, situation, which is going to blunt so many other responses in the body.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: So there's a huge, you know, slew of conditions and sequelaes that come from, you know, just pharmaceutical options and medicine right now.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: So we can't use that as a benchmark at this point.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: We I just, I mean, that's my opinion, but you know, we just can't.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: So we have to find new innovation thing.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where skincare comes in, and that's where products like yours come in.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I want to ask you, you know, my one my last question for you is accessibility because I know I've gotten a lot of feedback from dermatologists about how, you know, someone's come in, they've had a terrible reaction because of all the skincare they've been using.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And so the the dermatologist is frustrated at the industry.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: I want to ask you, in terms of accessibility, what were some things that you considered?
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Because I think those kind of patients are trying products that are just not formulated well.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: So, like, um, can you tell us about that?
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Do you mean accessibility to to a dermatologist?
37:04
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, to your line, so that like consumers are buying good products, you know what I mean?
37:09
SPEAKER_00: And instead of like, yeah.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, price is a really important point point for us.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, we use really expensive, high quality clean ingredients at really high concentrations, and we do clinical validations.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: So we really should be a lot more expensive than we are.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was kind of an issue for a number of years in terms of our profitability because we weren't sort of taking into consideration, oh, we're also doing a hundred thousand dollar study to support this.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: But it just I felt a moral imperative to prove that the products worked, especially when you're dealing with people that have tried lots of things and spent lots of money and had lots of bad results.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: And I felt a moral imperative to do my utmost to deliver a result and to at least prove that I could deliver a statistically significant result to, you know, 30, 30 patients.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: So um we've always kept our pricing as accessible as possible, you know, and we are one of the most accessibly priced brands at Sephora.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at the ordinary and inky list, obviously, they're a whole new, whole new product, and they don't do clinical testing because they don't have that sort of um room in their margin.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: But we're sort of the next level up where we're, you know, we're hover around the you know, the pricing of sort of a first aid beauty or a clinique, a very accessible entry-level price point.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: And we will always maintain that and we do our utmost to deliver the best product for the most uh you know efficient price possible.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are cases where we're tackling some tough skin issues now that we've been looking at for years, and we're we've come up with what we think is a really good solution for a line we're gonna launch in 22.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's going to be more expensive than we like, but then we also really don't want to scamp on the ingredients because we know it's gonna work better than anything else in the market.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, there's certain instances where a product might be a little premium in its space, and that's only when it's delivering something that nobody else is delivering and we just can't really afford to do it for less.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: But we do endeavor to be as accessible as possible.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: We do also some little kits, you know, our eczema kit is one of our best sellers because it gives someone an opportunity to try the eczema lineup and it has a full size of our dermatitis face bomb in it, and you know, it gives them a chance to just test and try um and make sure it works for them or decide which product they want to they want to invest in in terms of the no, I think your pricing is awesome.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: That's why I asked you that question because it's like you know, you're really delivering a lot of product.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was raving about body cream earlier, and I it, you know, looking at the size and the amount of cream I'm getting, like, you know, it's uh$67, right?
39:58
SPEAKER_00: How much is it?
39:59
SPEAKER_00: Like six, it's like 60 something.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: It's it's very, very affordable, like because I've spent like hundreds, you know what I mean, on that size of a cream that doesn't do anything for me.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: The body cream I think is 45 USD.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: So okay, even better.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: 45.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was looking at another one, but I mean, honestly, it's amazing.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, I I can buy it and it's going to be with me for you know a few months at the very least.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: And and that's well-invested money.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you guys have kept your prices so realistic.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I really hope that dermatologists, like if there's any dermatologists listening, I really hope you'll consider um having skin fix in your in your office because this is really, really good skincare.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: We do have quite a few derms that sell the line and and lots of derms that recommend it.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: And we we really appreciate their support.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: And we do our best to deliver products that their patients will not only want to use, but that'll work for them.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: And whether it's on their own or in adjunct with other prescription medications, because we know that prescriptions are also necessary at times, you know, and and our products also won't contraindicate and are, you know, are also formulated to work well with with prescriptions.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Our barrier line is formulated to work well with chemical exfoliants and retinoids and um you know, vitamin C's, and and so we we really uh really try to try to also manage that because we know people are going to use those things.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Right, absolutely.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, Amy, this has been such a pleasure um learning all about you know skin fix and your journey.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: It's truly an honor to have met you and to have spoken to you.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for your time.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Ecta.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: This was lovely.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Really love your podcast.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: Skincare Anarchy is awesome, great content, and appreciate you having me on.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening, please go check out SkinFix.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna tag them in the art, obviously.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: And I would love to hear your comments and feedback about the show, about the products that you love by SkinFix.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, leave us some comments and questions for Amy's team if you have them.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we'll be back next time.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
42:14
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42:19
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42:22
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42:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
42:44
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42:47
SPEAKER_00: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: We also have a blog on Medium.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast, and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.