Latest / Being Different Together / #45 - What to Do When Things Don’t Go Your Way

Transcript

#45 - What to Do When Things Don’t Go Your Way · Being Different Together

0:08
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: In fact, we welcome them.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: This isn't about being right.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: It's about being different together.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be a different kind of episode today because it's a different episode where we're being different and we are different and different things are happening.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're we're it's a different, we're different together, and this is a different episode of different together.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: It's double difference.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so if you've been following along with the pod, which I know our our loyal group of listeners has been doing, we've been working on this edition so that this is mom, my beloved mother-in-law, still can move in.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: And um we have been working on uh it's been an episode, it's it's been a year of unfulfilled expectation.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: What's that movie, the the year of living dangerously?
1:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of been our practice.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of been our practice.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Practice is something you choose to do, though.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: So this is this is where this is the meat of the episode, a practice.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: It's something you choose to do.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a plan here?
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I do.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: It's like how okay, I do.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: So I I was thinking that we could circle the episode around um the disappointments that we have had and um, you know, maybe like how Buddhism looks at working with frustration and anger, your own experience with how to work with that kind of thing.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Um I you know, I don't know.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: That's what it that's where I was thinking.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, just a little context.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, typically we ret we record on uh Thursdays.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: And uh what was happening last Thursday?
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, we had this GI thing.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was sick.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we were sick.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I missed a day in the office.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: I've gotten sick twice during this um Yeah, and that's unusual.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: I know.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Um and so and you know, we've been going up the body in our past couple episodes.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: So we had just another pelvis.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: We're like, okay, great, let's do the gut.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: That's perfect.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: We just had this weird GI thing, and then um, I guess it got in the way on Thursday.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I can't even not even remember what happened, but we we once again, if you remember from two episodes ago, we're like, okay, great, we'll record this weekend.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: And you know how it goes when we say we're gonna record on the weekend.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's been I have to say there have been some extenuating circumstances, so yeah, we didn't do it.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the bottom line is we didn't do it.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And um So we're here on an off day, and um and then you know, we had an expectation.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: So I want to just get straight to the because we're gonna make this a short episode, which is um we had an expectation that because Mama is moving in this week, we had an expectation and a really deep wish that everything would be done.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: And we had an independent inspection yesterday, and lo and behold, it's not done.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: No, and there are some pretty substantive things that need to happen before it we can really sign off on the project.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And um, and so of course this brings up so much.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, first of all, it's incredibly inconvenient, and then as second of all, um, you know, we have all these feelings about, you know, for me, I have feelings about my mother-in-law who I love very much and she's gone through a lot in order to downsize her house that she's moving out of.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: My God, we've she's lived in this house for 40 years and it's she's moving over her cats, and so she's going from a four-bedroom house to one room with us in a in a in what is going to be a four-bedroom house.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: But she's gonna be living with us.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole different scenario.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's just an enormous change for her.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: So really wanting to protect honestly protect her through that.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, and and not being able to to a certain degree.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Because of the nature of karma.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because of the nature of the nature of um construction.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, also it is cause and effect, right?
4:45
SPEAKER_00: It is the nature of construction, particularly in Florida.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I think also just like cause and effect.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Like there are so many things that are going on that we're not in control of.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: We want to be, damn it, but we're we're not, because there's so many other moving pieces.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: So it it's really possible for me to get in touch with a fair amount of anger and frustration um through this process.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And I um, you know, it's like I used to think that anger was caused by what happened to me.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Before I was really introduced to psychology, but more so to Buddhist thought.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I I really used to think that my anger was because of something that happened outside of me.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: It was caused by someone or something else.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: But what I've learned is that anger really arises um from the gap between what happens and what I'm insisting should happen.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm I don't want to get into some like moral relativism, meaning like anything could happen and then I wouldn't be angry, and everything that happens is okay.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: So, like sometimes I explain this to clients and they'll say, but what about killing babies in Palestine?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, some things are just wrong.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: And when we see things that are wrong, Martin Luther King said this, we should step in to the best of our ability and try and stop that wrong thing from happening, which is what we're doing, honestly.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: In this situation, we can see the things that are wrong.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: And we're not letting that happen.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: We're stepping in and we're saying no, and we're doing everything that we can possibly do.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: But at that point, then anger has served its purpose.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Its purpose is to bring intense presence and energy to a boundary or to a justice that needs to be reconciled, a boundary that needs to be erected, an injustice that needs to be brought in front of our lady of justice.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: I do remember way back in the day, probably in some uh book of aspirational sayings that were was put into the bathroom, I also had those.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: Which is very similar to Murray.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: This idea that um intentionality anger motivates us to change.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that was Titnahan.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember, but I just remember reading that at some point in my earlier life and going because I anger I was much more comfortable with uh crying than than expressing anger.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Um just part of my socialization.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: I I was almost come out with anger.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm more of a come out.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: With anger, you're more of a go-in with anger.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: But uh this idea, and so then I just I I it was a polarity for me.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So then anger was bad.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: It didn't feel good.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: But then this idea that, oh, anger could actually motivate me to change, that's a spin.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: I'll want to change.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: I want to be motivated to change.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: So then anger has a purpose.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: I feel like but it's like the hanging on to it, I think, that becomes the problem.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the hanging on to the anger, yeah.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: This is where it becomes the problem.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's like, okay, we confront the situation last night, we uh have a plan about it.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you're still awake at three, like you told me this morning that you were awake at 3 a.m.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: That's anger waking you up.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: That's more worry for me though.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: I do worry anxiety.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: But is it the is anger at the root of that?
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: I believe it is the root poison.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: I I I really think that's what we're talking about.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: In Buddhism, we actually call it a poison because it makes you feel poisoned, doesn't it?
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Like that feeling when you wake up and you're just like sick about something because your your mind is just going, just grinding on it.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I know.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: Your mind is just so many problems laying in my bed.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: It's like that, it's like that part of the mind comes up.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I imagine my mind it's like a 50,000, um, it's like a room of 50,000 angry soccer fans.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like actually, it's better, like it's like 50,000 soccer fans, and some of them are drunk and angry, some of them are peaceful Buddhists, some of them are, but they're all in there, and it's like it's like a roar.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And girl, that that roar is going all the time.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: It's just that I'm too distracted to pay attention to it.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: And at night, when my eyes are closed and I'm not thinking about anything else, it's like the roar.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: It's like when you open your eyes in the middle of the night and it's like you lift up the curtain and you hear it.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, you hear your mind.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And then you can close it real quick.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Really, what you're hearing, in my opinion, at that time, is it?
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And I say this with love because I have the same mind, so I'm gonna say it for my I'm gonna speak for myself.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: When I wake up at night like that, what I am hearing is my poisoned mind.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: What I am hearing are all of my attachments, all of my aversions, all of my delusions, all of my ignorance, all of my wrong views.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm hearing.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm just hearing that.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's so practiced.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing it for so long that when I'm not distracted by anything else and I'm a little bit weak because I'm tired, my mind is not completely strong, you know.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's gonna come out.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: And and that's you know, that's like what happens.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So the question is, and I know that that just doesn't happen for us, and you know why I know it?
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Because there are Buddhist teachings that go back about this that are 2600 years, they're they go back 3,000 years, these teachings.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: And the teachings of the Hindus before that go back even further.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: So this this is inform there are technologies for working with this that are thousands of years old.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: So I don't have to reinvent the wheel here.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to pathologize myself.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to be like, what's the matter with me?
10:08
SPEAKER_00: I need a pill or a drug or a I need to go sweat it out in the sauna.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: All those things will help.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm not against I mean, maybe.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about the pill and the drug.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the sweating.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I'm saying?
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, our my next step as a westerner is to say what's wrong with me.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I feel bad.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: I need to fix it.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: As opposed to what is the mind medicine that I can apply right now that will really help me solve this problem.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about all of that?
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Um well, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what's the mind medicine?
10:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, right.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So that's uh I wanna give me the medicine.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna link this in the show notes.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: I I've I recently read this really great article by the venerable Robina Corton, who is a Tibetan, uh she's uh actually an Australian woman who is practicing in the Tibetan Buddhist lineage, it's in the same lineage as the Dalai Lama.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: She's very um and a wonderful teacher.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I love listening to her because she's not like what most people in our culture expect a Buddhist to be, which is like Hello everyone.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Peace.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Please come in.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: She's like, no, darling, no, no, no, no, no, listen to me now.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's very full of energy.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: She's in her 80s now, she's very direct, she's very funny.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and she really calls things out in a way that's beautiful.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: So recently I read this article by her, which I'll link in the I'll link in the show notes, and it's called What is Anger?
11:43
SPEAKER_00: by the venerable Robina Gordon.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And basically her thesis is this anger is the response when attachment doesn't get what it wants.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is attachment in the Buddhist sense.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: This is not like attachment theory when we talk about a baby and a mommy.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, in Western psychology, everybody's into it.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: That's not what we're talking about.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: What she means in terms of attachment is having a way.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: That's the simple way that I'd like to like I have a way that I think something should be done.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: And I'm attached to that way.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the right way.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's right that the project for your mom is completed by Thursday when she moves in with the cats because that's would be the easiest way for me to handle this situation emotionally.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, I think it's right.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: And when that thing doesn't happen, what happens?
12:35
SPEAKER_00: The screaming fan comes out like calling at the ref, screaming at the ref.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: That's not a fair call.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: I've been at Bucks football games where security officers had to take fans out of the stands because they were screaming at other fans.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: This is what it is to be human.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: We have this inside of us.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't I'm I'm kinda yeah, I'm really, I'm really kind of at a a loss because I'm trying to like deal with my own emotions around the whole thing.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I think where I'm getting stuck is, you know, like you're like, okay, here's the thing about anger.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Anger's at the bottom of it.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: But it's like I'm not as in touch with that as much as I am the stuff that's on the surface, which is that worry and anxiety.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: So call it that.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I guess that would also be a result of having an attachment to a certain way, wouldn't it?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm worrying that it's not the way that I think that it should go.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let me split this hair.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: In terms of the way we think about it.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm anxious because it's not the way that I think that it should go.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons that I love Buddhism so much is that it's a philosophy that's based on logic.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: It's like, let me prove to you why this is true, right?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: So, what I want to prove to you about your worry is that it is related to anger, but it's the anger mixed up with what you think is gonna happen in the future.
14:04
unknown: Uh-huh.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: You're anticipating your attachment being unmet in the future, and that is why you're worrying.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: But what's at the root of that, I think, is this should be going my way.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and maybe that's anger.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: According to this tradition, maybe maybe.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not I'm not attached to it.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Again, I'm really just like having a dialogue with you around it.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's I'm just kind of watching my own.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I think part of it has to do with my relationship with anger.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: And then my registering of that versus like I don't I don't really register the things that I'm feeling as anger, although the more we talk about it, the more I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I could see how that's that's in there.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And I think aren't there like levels of emotion?
14:52
SPEAKER_02: Like there's like that sort of like the big five, the raw emotions, but then there's like all these nuances of in the sort of layer and layer and layer.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: And I heard you talking to somebody the other day about grief and how grief is not just one emotion.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: Um and so I just think I get it like stuck in yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: So we might use words like I'm frustrated.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: I like to say it's frustrated.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Frustrated.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: I love the way John Oliver says I'm frustrated.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm frustrated, I'm vexed, I'm annoyed.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm irritated.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: See that, and then and then I can see how those circle closer to anger.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: But then but then there's this whole and we could do a whole other podcast on like why why can I not feel just like pure anger?
15:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think some of that is is that that socialization of being a woman.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, if I were to really show anger, I mean, then I get labeled a very specific way as a woman.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: You're called a bitch if you're a woman.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: If you if you're if you're angry, whereas a much men are allowed to do it, but men are not allowed to cry, whereas I am.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: And so I do when that was pointed out to me when I was in my twenties, I was like, oh, that is totally totally a thing.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, not that I don't get angry, I certainly do.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I remember one time I was actually sitting with with someone who's a man who I see as as relatively evolved, and we were talking about my frustration about something, and I that I was gonna talk about it.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, you you know, you want to be careful not to be shrill.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, why would you say that to a man?
16:29
SPEAKER_00: Would you say that to a man?
16:31
SPEAKER_00: I I was like Did you say that to him?
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: I said, Why?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Why should I be does my does being shrill bother you?
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's where that dialogue went.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And it was peppery.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of it is like I do sit a bit with a more androgynous positioning in my gender orientation.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: And so I think I maybe because I'm taller, my shoulders are broader, I can, and my voice is a bit deeper.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Even when I was more feminine presenting, long hair in a dress, I could get away with it in a different way.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Um but again, that whole getting away with it, it's like, what am I allowed to do when am I not allowed?
17:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, all these things.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: And and and we are a a family.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: We're a matriarchal family.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: There are no men in our family right now.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Other than my daughter's boyfriend.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: God love him.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: God bless him.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
17:25
SPEAKER_00: It's in our meeting.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: In our really, really close circle.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have a brother, he doesn't live here.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: No, totally.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, my mother is married, but he's distant, you know, far away from us.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like they're they're not, we don't see them with regularity.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: So we're a matriarchy here.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: And we're dealing with these, you know, there are contractors are there's there's one woman on the team that we saw one time.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: So there are some gender dynamics, I think, that go into it.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: But I think more importantly, back to sort of, you know, I I know that we don't want to spend a great deal of time on this episode, but I think what I want to talk about for me is that my vow, I want to bring some intentionality, you know.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: Intentionality is is like making a vow.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: In Buddhism, we make vows about things.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Make a vow.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And a vow is different than listen, if you believe in a creator, that the creator, you know, I I love this for people who can believe in this if it helps you.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I love this belief system in the West.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Something created the universe and they gave us these laws and you live by them.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And um treat your neighbor as yourself, you know.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: The golden rule would be the law here.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, like work on your anger, right?
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: But that's all good.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: But basically, those those um recommendations, which are very helpful, come from the creator.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't do them, it's kind of like, well, be a bad girl, you know what I mean?
18:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like the creator said, Why not do this?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, Jesus says like why should I not sleep with your wife?
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Listener.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Because God says so, is that answer.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: And my answer is because it would because it would hurt you, it would hurt your wife, and it would hurt me in the end.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: It would hurt me.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: So this is the thing, logically.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: My anger when I hold on to it, it hurts me.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Being kind actually does help me.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: And being kind does not mean being nice, but to make a vow that says, I'm gonna approach this, my vow could be uh it could be an intentionality saying, uh, you know, uh, choose a pleasant path.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, we could recognize that.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what if well, I mean that's an interesting thing.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: It's like how what if what if what if I ask myself, how could I proceed the most peacefully?
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: With this.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: And that honestly feels better in my body.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Which is yes.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And which is not to say there may not be a time when we might have to really force it.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean bend over backwards, it doesn't mean agree to things I don't want to agree to.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean in the moment, if I have a flash of anger, that somebody sees that because I'm not trying I don't want to be a robot.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: But oh, you know, so and so, I would really like it if you did ex.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's gonna be heard.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: But like, no, this is what needs to happen.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Please make sure it does.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: That's very straightforward.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: And um and I don't think it puts anybody in harm's way.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, this other part of it, well, I you didn't meet my expectation.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: I have a way, you didn't meet my expectation.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: I blame you for that.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm displeased.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Then my anger can become about giving you my displeasure.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: And this is the beginning of the war.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Because then I'm discharging aspect onto a person.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm just giving them I'm gonna give them a piece of my mind.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would love to have a piece of somebody's mind.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Mine is the most glorious thing in the universe.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Give me a piece of your mind, please.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, what does that really mean?
20:56
SPEAKER_02: It means I'm gonna discharge, I'm gonna discharge my anger onto them, is what that means.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: I think it does.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I think it does.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: As opposed to I'm gonna advocate for these things, I'm gonna make a list, I'm gonna set a boundary, I'm gonna these are the things I'm gonna vow to do.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is and in terms of my intentionality, it's like I don't poison myself.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: But man, sometimes I just poison myself with all kinds of things.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Because that's my habit.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: If I've been alive is the Buddha would say since the beginning of time.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: But since there's no creator in Buddhism, that means there was no creation of time.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Time is always here?
21:34
unknown: Yeah.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Or does time not exist?
21:39
SPEAKER_02: So time was always here.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Is that the idea?
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like every consciousness is creating everything, and it's a combination.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Like everything in our world is a combination between mind, which is consciousness, uh huh, and matter, which is what it's coming into contact with, and it's consistently regenerating itself.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: And here we are.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are the product of that.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So if if if I in some way have been alive since beginningless time, I imagine that I have been a raging maniac.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: All these I I've been I I've I but I've been every one of these people that have been involved in this project.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: If with it so what what Jung would say is that this is your shadow, right?
22:17
SPEAKER_00: If you have a murderous impulse, an aggressive impulse, a rageful impulse, a rapacious impulse, that that gets put into the shadow, right?
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Because we think in our culture it's not acceptable.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to murder or rape or pillage, but I know that my Viking ancestors did.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And I know that's part of what in Buddhism we would call my karma.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's in me.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to be poisoned by it.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's the intentionality.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: So is maybe part of it is not sort of being ruled by it, not allowing it to move through you unconsciously, not you know, as much as you can, not discharging it onto other people.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I think that that saying things in that way can start to sound um prescriptive, and like if you don't do it, then now you're bad.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: Like that that's not what I hear you saying.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: We're we're moving out of duality.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: We're moving out of duality, that is exactly right.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: We're moving out of duality, but we are still in a dualistic world.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: So it's like we we still have to to to there's a there's there's still a seesaw that we're balancing on, but it it's it's it's just gonna continue on.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: So I talk about it, I'm in duality.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So I mean that that it just makes it very di it makes it very difficult, it's not impossible.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm not that advanced of a teacher to be able to demonstrate or non-duality in a way that it could convey it to the listener.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that really has to be experienced.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm I'm not there.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm not there.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't see anger and joy as the same.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: My ego still holds on to joy is better and anger is sure worse.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: And um, and that's of course one is more positive than the other.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: So this is a part where it's not.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: But does everything all the time have to be completely pleasant?
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, but does it do I want it to be virtuous is my question.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the vow.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Is is this actually going to help?
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Is what I'm doing actually going to to help the situation?
24:23
SPEAKER_00: And by help, I mean is it gonna stop it from harming people?
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the other thing I wanted to say about it is, you know, like I have an idea in my mind that this is the way that this project is supposed to be going.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, I have a way, but I I'm very likely wrong.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: I am probably wrong.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean about the way because it's not what's happening.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's what I was gonna say.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: Is like, you know, if we like take a um Tao is Yeah, that was what I was gonna say.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: If we go back to the um the the teachings, the conte teachings of Lao Tzu, of you know, the Tao the Wei, also called the Way by the Way, is going to flow where it is going to flow.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: And so if it's not going that way, then that's not the way it's exactly.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say supposed to, but it's just not the way that it's gonna go.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: And so there's a certain it I mean for me, it goes back to a lot of the stuff we talked about in the moon episode where it's like you have an idea, there's an idea in my mind, it's an ideal idea.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: I now want to take it from this sort of disembodied realm of ideas and ideals into material reality on its way.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: For me, like the idea and ideals are up here or they're up, they're in the head, they're in the heavens.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, we want to bring that down to earth, we want to bring it into material reality on its way down, things change.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's only one way to make a right angle, you know.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: There's there was only there was only so big of a room that we could have made with this project.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Yes, there were there were very specific dimensions.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's with the layout.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: I've thought about the layout and how I'm like, oh, this would have been better, this would have been better, but then I'm like, well, we we had very real limitations with it.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: And so there's that reality of things too.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: And even just in that, not even involving other people, even just in that process of creating something, it's not gonna go my way totally, because of how it goes into material.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's not necessarily, yes, there are other people involved, yes, there are decisions that were made, but it I I can see that there is just the way that reality unfolds.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: And that is a truth.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: And and the the thing that we can change is how we deal with it.
26:59
unknown: It's a law, and it's the law of karma.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just the law of causality, it's just so many causes that have gone into the timing on this project that my little eyes cannot see.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: And that's kar and that's karma.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people would say, well, that's God's will.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a that's one way of looking at it.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: And okay.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: If you know, okay.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: That's that's definitely a shorthand for me to say that there are so there are beginningless time for this project.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So many causes and conditions had to happen for your mother to be who she is.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Your father, who was he, who was he, who was who he was.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: For them to had you for you to be exactly who you are, just like how many causes and conditions had to happen to my book in order for you to be able to do it.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: To have found this place, to have stayed here, to all these things.
27:59
unknown: You are now 42.
28:01
unknown: Today's your mom's birthday.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Happy birthday.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: That's that's somehow point that we're doing this on her birthday.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's beautiful.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: I love her so much.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's like Happy birthday.
28:14
unknown: So, you know, it's like all of those things happen.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: It's like for me to have shown up in this way, but all the contractors have shown up in this way.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:32
unknown: And then for us to do this project.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Like if I could really break the logic down, it's just a sort of just yeah.
29:16
unknown: Sure.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know, I know, I know.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
29:40
unknown: Well, every time.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: What to keep?
30:55
SPEAKER_00: What to give away.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: So slowly, slowly, and at my own pace.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, this thing is going at its own pace too, so at least we're all on the page.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, listener, I hope that listening to our process and my mini therapy session um was helpful for you in your own in your own way.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, hopefully uh next time we record, which uh we'll still drop these on Thursday.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: So until then, much love.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: And um, if this made you think of someone, please share it with them.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Share with the love, and we will see you next time on Being Different.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: This episode is brought to you by Tragedy.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: What happens when you don't get what you want?
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Motherfucker! Turn a chicken, shit, and a chicken salad.