Latest / Mythmakers / At the Turn of the Tide - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 3 Ch 5

Transcript

At the Turn of the Tide - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 3 Ch 5 · Mythmakers

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to Mythbakers. Mythbakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy
• 0:10
  creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. My name is Julia Golding and
• 0:17
  today we are doing a sci-cast episode which is an author's journey through the Lord of
• 0:23
  the Rings and we have reached in the two towers chapter 5 it's technically book 3 but it's
• 0:31
  chapter 5 called the White Rider. Now how would I characterize this chapter? It's quite
• 0:37
  a long one but I would say it is held together by the theme of laughter and riddles. It falls
• 0:46
  into roughly four parts so we start with the last stage of the hunt for Mary and Pippin as
• 0:53
  Aragon, Legolas and Ghibli. They sort of pick up after the episode we've just had a
• 1:00
  tree bird trying to piece together what happened to their friends. Then we get the encounter with this
• 1:06
  mysterious man in the forest. We get a long exchange of news and some stories set within stories
• 1:14
  and then we get the exit from Fangorn, the arrival of Shadowfax and moving on to the next part
• 1:22
  the journey that's all sort of one very fast piece at the end. Okay so what do we notice about
• 1:28
  this chapter? First of all there's quite a what I would call these days a cinematic cut from being
• 1:35
  on the verge of invading Eisengaard to Ghibli stamping his feet. My very bones are chilled he says
• 1:44
  as he wakes up in the dawn. You can see how our filmmaker would deal with that and of course
• 1:52
  Tolkien is writing in the age of cinema so it is part of his sort of vocabulary or stylistic
• 2:00
  choices as a writer too. Anyway we originally get a reminder of the dynamics of the group banter
• 2:07
  that is developing between these three. So they are looking for the hobbits and Aragon is a little
• 2:14
  bit flummoxed as to how to find them on this battlefield and Ghibli is one gently well it's sort
• 2:24
  of a general prod of encouragement but also a little bit of ribbing he says a bent blade
• 2:30
  means a blade grass a bent blade is enough for Aragon to read and of course it proves to be so
• 2:38
  a little bit more than a bent blade but we get a dropped malon leaf. Here this before we move
• 2:46
  into the reading of the science this is where we're picking up this important theme in this
• 2:52
  chapter of puzzles and riddles they've been trying to read the signs ever since this volume started
• 3:01
  but we also had the puzzle at the end of the previous chapter with them where the horses flee
• 3:07
  and they see an old man that is a question that also is still in their minds and this is also
• 3:14
  a sort of a craft issue here that as an author you want to keep on creating questions
• 3:22
  but you also have to keep on giving answers so if you think of something like the structure of
• 3:28
  a murder mystery you have a big overarching question who done it why done it sometimes but you
• 3:38
  also need to give an answer at the end and there'll be smaller versions of that throughout the
• 3:45
  course of your novel so this is true in some epic fantasy like this talking is raising questions
• 3:53
  who was the man they saw at the fireside what has happened to the hobbies are they dead
• 4:00
  at this stage the we as the reader know more than the characters know we didn't originally but we
• 4:07
  now do so we're watching them work like a team of archaeologists in a sense time team picking up
• 4:15
  traces on the battlefield a couple of things I want to just outline here one is that we get a glimpse
• 4:24
  of all culture the orcacetic the knife they find has a carved handle with the hideous head
• 4:32
  squinting eyes and leering mouth I was thinking about this and about the world of the orcs that we
• 4:39
  don't see to create this someone has to carve it is there a workshop where all this happens there
• 4:45
  is sort of so much that you can let your imagination run with on this do the orcs perceive this as
• 4:52
  ugly or beautiful do they see it as in the same way you sometimes in some cultures get the
• 4:58
  like gargos on churches that kind of thing the idea of use the thing to frighten your enemies
• 5:04
  anyway I like those unanswered questions about the orcs and thinking about them we then get
• 5:10
  the fact here that arrogant is able to read the riddles correctly so they're all guessing how the
• 5:18
  man on leaf get there got there and how the hobbits got free legless has a go and he has a sort of
• 5:25
  sassy little number here when he says that the stopping to eat lemmas that at least is enough
• 5:32
  to show that he was a hobbit without the man on leaf but he can't solve the rest of the riddle
• 5:38
  about how they then got away and then arrogant is able to say look it probably this this this
• 5:45
  and this happened and he raises another correct question about what was the motives within the
• 5:56
  all group that meant one of them split away and him running over it like this and the sort of
• 6:03
  should we say geopolitics of the issue acts as a recap it helps clarify for the reader of what was
• 6:09
  going on within that walk band so it is a very useful purpose seeing someone else work it out he's
• 6:15
  doing the job of the author reminding us of the stakes and the various parties to this struggle
• 6:23
  arrogant and team then retrace the steps and here we as the readers we are a step ahead we've
• 6:29
  already seen this happen but we like to see them getting it right as well they go into fangoon
• 6:38
  I love these little touches here we've got legolas listening to the trees reminding us that he is a
• 6:47
  wood elf and so I think this is the first time we've seen him other than in Lothlorian but it's
• 6:53
  first time we've seen him in a sort of a huge vast forest like this and he's able to read the
• 6:59
  sign so he reads the signs in a different way from arrogant but he's able to say I do not feel the
• 7:07
  wood feels evil I catch only the faintest echoes of dark places where the hearts of the trees are
• 7:14
  black there is no malice nearest there is watchfulness and anger but he's also able to raise
• 7:20
  the tension for us there is something happening inside or going to happen do you not feel the
• 7:26
  tenseness it takes my breath and that's a reminder to all of us when we're writing is to keep
• 7:33
  raising the tension as you give answers you've got to also in other ways turn up the tension
• 7:39
  so that your story never loses its narrative impulse forward it's interesting here that normally
• 7:47
  we hear of them as legolas and gimli of course but at this point Tolkien chooses to refer to them as
• 7:56
  the dwarf and the elf and that's because he's telling us something about both races
• 8:03
  first of all gimli says this wood is lighter than mercury but it is musty and shabby so that's
• 8:10
  the dwarf verdict but for the elf for elves in general they see it completely differently it is
• 8:19
  old very old so old that almost I feel young again as I have not felt since I journeyed with you
• 8:27
  children it is old and full of memory I could have been happy here if I had come in days of peace
• 8:35
  so obviously we are laying ahead that this is one place he does go back to with gimli at the end
• 8:41
  of the story but it's where the two cultures can't see each others value in a place
• 8:49
  but the difference between this elf and this dwarf is they do try and see each others idea of beauty
• 8:58
  and sense of awe and wonder so we now are deep into the forest and they are
• 9:04
  following on the traces of pipin and merry I think there's a just to highlight here there's an
• 9:11
  example of where the book gimli has more dignity and is less comedic than the film version
• 9:18
  when he's talking about he will be careful with his axe as he enters in he says
• 9:25
  I will keep my axe loose in my belt not for you some trees he added hastily looking up at the trees
• 9:31
  under which they stood so they get the answer here to how many hobbits have escaped
• 9:36
  arrogance sees the footsteps of two different hobbits he says the marks are two days old I
• 9:44
  basically wonder how you can tell that perhaps it's rained or leaves the fallen on it or something
• 9:50
  like that anyway I'd love to know they have the same impulse as the hobbits to climb what is now
• 9:56
  called treebeards hill and here are going for the first time meets entarks now this is fun because
• 10:04
  in terms of puzzling and riddling we are the quiz masters with the answer we know he's looking at
• 10:11
  entmarks we also get an interesting little what I would call one of Tolkien's map moments
• 10:18
  when legulus uses this vantage point to say how they could have come here directly from the river
• 10:24
  but they've done a big circle and this is exactly the point where those with maps turn to it and say
• 10:29
  I am we know where you are so Tolkien drops those in with nice regularity so we always feel we are
• 10:36
  in a real place following a real journey so after the moment of the hunt some answers have been given
• 10:46
  not all of them that we've had sort of new questions and some answers then suddenly the tempo
• 10:52
  changes have a look at it in my addition it's in the middle of page 95 and the tempo change comes
• 11:00
  with rapid dialogue and it's also the glimpse of the mysterious old man in the forest so legulus says
• 11:10
  and yet here we are and nicely caught in the net look look at what said Gimli there in the trees
• 11:17
  where I have not elf eyes hush speak more softly look that is very different from the dialogue we've
• 11:24
  had before where they've been making much longer speeches about things and suddenly it's as though
• 11:31
  the heartbeat is going as is the character's heartbeat is raising so you can do that with dialogue
• 11:38
  to remember that dialogue is like action it does that keeping the reader on tentahooks is important
• 11:45
  here and they're in decision about what to do about the man who is approaching builds and builds
• 11:56
  and we see the man approaching through arrogance point of view it looked like an old beggar man
• 12:04
  walking wearily leaning on a rough staff his head was bowed and he did not look towards them
• 12:09
  in other lands they would have greeted him with kind words but now they stood silent
• 12:14
  each feeling of strange expectancy something no not someone something was approaching that held
• 12:23
  a hidden power or menace Tolkien is doing the balancing act here he doesn't want to say relax
• 12:29
  everybody it's Gandalf he's keeping us uncertain and in a sense Gimli is us because he suddenly
• 12:38
  bursts out in a kind of get on with it your bow legolas bend it get ready it is saraman he decides
• 12:45
  is ready to shoot but legolas doesn't take a shot an arrogant is the one who says that's the right
• 12:51
  decision legolas is right we may not shoot an old man so at unawares and unchallenged whatever fear
• 13:00
  or doubt be on us watch and wait watch and wait actually has a a biblical cadence to it doesn't it
• 13:09
  it sort of it feels like something from a psalm wait for the lord that kind of idea
• 13:15
  but here legolas is showing that he is just there is no extra judicial killing no random
• 13:22
  bombing of targets just because you think they might be bad guys it is we have to find out
• 13:29
  what's really going on here before we take action the encounter with this mysterious stranger is
• 13:36
  much longer if you've done this only from seeing it in a film version it all happens very suddenly
• 13:44
  here it's much more gripping and less pantomime because it's about their confusion and their
• 13:51
  failure to recognise in here we again we get some religious overtones in fact this chapter is
• 13:58
  one of the ones which has the most sort of presence of Tolkien's Catholicism in it because Gandalf
• 14:05
  is an echo or a version of some idea of a resurrection so of course the the echoes are going to be
• 14:16
  and in this case legolas gimli and arrogant are like Mary in the garden or the disciples on the
• 14:25
  road to Emmaus because they do not at first recognise their returned friend until they get hints
• 14:34
  of them doing something familiar Mary only recognises Jesus when he says her name on the road to
• 14:42
  Emmaus it is when he breaks bread in Tolkien's version or his echo of that story they only recognise
• 14:53
  Gandalf when they hear his laughter and the laughter is very important in this chapter because it
• 15:01
  is that youth atastrophe has Tolkien put it the triumph out of disaster which needs to joy
• 15:09
  and the laughter changes so it starts off as laughter on an edge because remember as the writer
• 15:15
  Tolkien is still trying to keep us tense about the outcome of this encounter to arrogant the laughter
• 15:23
  he hears is not terror but it's like the sudden bite of a keen air or the slap of a cold rain
• 15:31
  that wakes an uneasy sleeper so remember that image because it is going to be a variation of this
• 15:38
  returns so we are dialing out of this is a threat to the this is something new and strange
• 15:47
  who can it be that's if we're reading it the first time second time through it's just
• 15:53
  like the joy of opening a present that you know what it contains the most wonderful thing possible
• 16:01
  Tolkien however keeps the oddness going and one of the ways he does this is that Gandalf himself
• 16:09
  isn't being cruel he also doesn't quite know who he is with these people yet is though he's coming
• 16:16
  up in a decompression chamber is what I was thinking he's arising to the surface of his old memory
• 16:22
  and we see him do this he has been in La Florian rib collateral and his lane on the top of mountain
• 16:30
  in a kind of Maya version of himself the sort of demigod spirit version of what a wizard is
• 16:41
  and he's gradually becoming more and more human incarnated I suppose to use religious term
• 16:49
  and eventually as they speak arrogant gets his joyful revelation and he says what veil was over my sight
• 17:00
  again that has this echoes in various passages in the New Testament where they have that what veil
• 17:08
  was over my sight where you the scales drop from your eyes as a poor reference but what I love most
• 17:15
  about this is what I was saying about Gandalf also coming to this revelation point when arrogant
• 17:23
  calls him or first of all let's see first of all Legolas calls him Mithrandir which is his name
• 17:29
  amongst the elves and he's familiar with that because that is what a Galadriel and others call him
• 17:36
  and then arrogant calls him Gandalf and we get this phrase Gandalf the old man repeated as if
• 17:45
  recalling from old memory a long disused word so it's not that long ago that this word was used
• 17:53
  but Gandalf has dropped out of time and memory and he's now coming back so it makes sense to him
• 17:58
  that it was a long time ago yes that was the name I was Gandalf and the question here is is he going
• 18:07
  to become Gandalf again the next step is yes yes you may still call me Gandalf
• 18:16
  so this is though he's taking on the mantle of that the role that he had before this chapter is
• 18:23
  full of those wonderful phrases he goes on to say be merry we meet again at the turn of the tide
• 18:32
  so we are in a pivotal point in this story and Gandalf is telling us we are this is the fight back
• 18:38
  so in terms of the second world war this is what happens after Dunkirk it's the the next few years
• 18:48
  the arrival of America in the world that kind of thing so I'm not at the end but we're at that
• 18:54
  point where it begins to push back the other way Gimli in this chapter is really hung up on
• 19:01
  getting it wrong about thinking Gandalf was Saraman but Gandalf has some words of comfort for him
• 19:10
  here he says indeed I am Saraman Saraman as he should have been because he has taken over the status
• 19:17
  of the white which is more than just a badge of the head of the order of wizards it is actually a
• 19:26
  kind of being which Saraman has broken away from by wanting to be Saraman of many colors and
• 19:33
  Gandalf goes on to say I have forgotten much that I thought I knew and learned again much that I
• 19:39
  had forgotten which in itself sounds like a riddle so I said the theme of this chapter was all
• 19:46
  about puzzles what we discover here is that Gandalf is the biggest puzzle of the more we've
• 19:52
  been led not to answering the question about where Mary and Pipin are is actually who Gandalf is
• 20:00
  and what role he has to play is the real puzzle though that's not entirely answered
• 20:07
  because the the real answer lies in the world beyond middle earth the world of the gods and
• 20:14
  Eluvitar and things which middle earth a middle earth story doesn't really answer but we only sense
• 20:21
  we get lots of other kinds of answers though and the first one of those is how Gandalf has kept up
• 20:28
  with what's been going on and the traces the interweaving that we mentioned in earlier chapters
• 20:35
  begins to you know the knot is tied off on them we get to see that the eel that Legolas saw on
• 20:42
  a number of occasions was indeed sent by Gandalf but when you have a character who comes in
• 20:48
  like this who is so powerful you don't want to make them Superman you don't want to give them
• 20:54
  too much power they have to have kryptonite to make them work and so Gandalf knows a lot but he also
• 21:02
  doesn't know some things he is able to sense where the ring is the ring has now passed
• 21:10
  beyond my help but he didn't know about Sam for example he can see how a sore trial it was
• 21:20
  for Boramir but he didn't know that that was happened to Boramir until Aragon tells him doing
• 21:28
  this audacious move think how audacious it is to bring back someone from the dead which is basically
• 21:33
  what has happened to Gandalf here not quite dead because he is not quite human but that is the effect
• 21:41
  it is very bold and very brave to do this but it isn't him riding on a white charger to sweep all
• 21:51
  before him like with our magic spell he has to come and enter in the thick of it again he has to get
• 22:00
  down to the granular level of dealing with people otherwise the story would just implode at this
• 22:05
  point because Tolkien has daringly given us a big plus point turned the tide but he hasn't
• 22:14
  yet given us the answers as to how that tide is being turned we get some sense though
• 22:21
  and we have this wonderful little note here because Gandalf is being teasingly cryptic
• 22:28
  he says that the arrival of the hobbits their coming was like the falling of small stones that
• 22:34
  starts an avalanche in the mountains just a little side by here when Tolkien as a young man
• 22:40
  went on a walking holiday in the Alps there was a rockfall where a very big rock fell between him
• 22:47
  and the person next in line behind him which could have killed either of them but they escaped so
• 22:53
  he knows about mountains and rocks a question is Gandalf even sassia when he comes back he's been
• 23:00
  known for his sharp tongue but he keeps handing them out here the sassy comments so arrogance says
• 23:08
  you've not changed you speak in riddles Gandalf says riddles though for I was talking allowed to
• 23:14
  myself a habit of the old they choose the wisest person present to speak to
• 23:20
  so yeah he's teasing them but note here the return of laughter because after that as this sentence
• 23:30
  says he laughed but the sound now seemed warm and kindly as a gleam of sunshine
• 23:36
  he's used Tolkien here has used again the idea of weather so arrogance first mention of the laughter
• 23:44
  was as a bite or a slap of you know whether to wake you up here you're now basking in it
• 23:51
  in the presence of this person so you can use this idea of the same image but change the
• 23:57
  temperature of it whether it's obviously a good way of doing it Gandalf here gives another recap
• 24:04
  so we had a recap of the signs that reminded us of the the stakes among the orcs and what happened
• 24:10
  to Marion Pippin here we get the much bigger recap of the story if you've got the Peter Jackson
• 24:18
  extended edition of the two towers there is actually a scene which was put into the extended
• 24:24
  edition of Gandalf and arrogant standing against the sort of black background basically talking
• 24:31
  about this it was cut from the film because it isn't a filmic way of doing things but it is
• 24:36
  a novelistic way of doing things because Gandalf is able to lay out how he sees things and we are
• 24:43
  interested in his mentality and how he puts things together because it's his wisdom we want this
• 24:51
  information at this point and he's particularly interesting here on the role of Saruman because
• 24:56
  he's talking about how the actions that the enemy have taken have their own undoing within them
• 25:04
  he says yet a treacherous weapon is ever a danger to the hand so by following his own agenda to
• 25:11
  try and get the ring Saruman has undone both potentially both himself definitely but also
• 25:18
  potentially Saron the party in whom he had an uneasy alliance and I'm sure it can't have escaped
• 25:29
  Tolkien's thought here of the shifting alliances in the Second World War for example Russia and
• 25:37
  Germany being in partnership and then being enemies and so on so he was aware of how this plays
• 25:42
  out in a real world geopolitics he's reflecting it in his fantasy world Gandalf gives the verdict that
• 25:51
  the hobbits have arrived in the nick of time so between them our enemies have contrived only to
• 25:58
  bring Mary and Pippin with marvelous speed and in the nick of time to fangorn where otherwise
• 26:04
  they would never have come at all so it's the unintended good consequences of the acts of evil
• 26:11
  parties here we do get some answers again talking about this being riddled and answers
• 26:19
  Gandalf himself says that starved of information because Emma and his men had killed all the
• 26:27
  orcs who were coming back he himself ventured out to spy on what had happened
• 26:33
  and Gimli is very happy not to be wrong so he settles in his mind and Gandalf confirms
• 26:40
  kind of he guesses that it was Saruman so this is a longer conversation threaded through this
• 26:45
  conversation but I think we do get the answer so 100% but it's almost 100% that it was
• 26:52
  a version of Saruman they they saw the night before also note that we have here entering
• 27:01
  the name and naming of the Nazgul creatures who are going to become very important for the
• 27:07
  rest of the novel they've been seen across the river been unleashed soon their terror will
• 27:12
  overshadow the last enemy last armies of our friends cutting off the sun the winged creatures
• 27:19
  with the Nazgul on them I was reflecting here that the progress of the Nazgul from being Black
• 27:25
  riders to being riding on winged creatures is little potted version of the development of modern
• 27:33
  warfare from having cavalry as your major offensive weapon to having an air force and talking
• 27:43
  live through the development of aircraft in the First World War from being a novelty a novelty idea
• 27:54
  when the Wright brothers invented power flight in that way very rapidly during the First World War
• 27:59
  it became a means of bombing the enemy so he would have seen that in the trenches and of course
• 28:04
  you're in a whole new world of much more sophisticated aircraft by the time of the Second World War
• 28:10
  where talking himself is on fire watch in Oxford in case the bombing raids reached Oxford
• 28:16
  Gandalf tells them that Mary and Pippin have been picked up literally by the Enns
• 28:23
  it's interesting here the reaction of the companions Aragon talks about Enns as a legend
• 28:30
  he's heard stories didn't think they were still around legless talks about them as a memory
• 28:36
  he knew they were still around but they were a memory and this reminds us that there is this
• 28:42
  half world that elves living when they are at rest they walk in memories as though they are real
• 28:52
  Gandalf goes on to call the Enns our tree bid in particular the oldest living thing that still
• 28:59
  walks beneath the sun upon this middle earth okay let's unpack this a little bit I thought
• 29:08
  Tom Bombadill was the oldest living thing yes potentially but Tom Bombadill is more like a
• 29:19
  a bit more like the Maya he's the sort of spirit a creature of that who seems to be almost beyond
• 29:24
  and not just middle earth but the whole of the world here so I think that Gandalf
• 29:32
  unless it's a mistake by talking potentially but I think the point here that Gandalf is making
• 29:38
  is that the answer parts of middle earth just that part the world here not the undying lands
• 29:47
  over in the west and while the valar some of whom are in the undying lands are obviously
• 29:56
  older than the world itself we're talking about just middle earth that's how I make sense of this
• 30:02
  when talking about what the answer about to do there's a little discussion about who is dangerous
• 30:07
  I like this one because Gandalf tells them that everyone is dangerous I am very dangerous
• 30:13
  more dangerous than anything you will ever meet unless you'd be brought alive before the seat
• 30:17
  of the dark lord so we're getting a sense of the hierarchy here arrogant is dangerous legerus
• 30:22
  legerus is dangerous you are beset with dangers give me son of glowing for you are dangerous yourself
• 30:28
  in your old in your own fashion certainly the forest of fangorn is perilous not least to those who
• 30:35
  are too ready with their axes and fangorn himself that's tree bid is perilous too yet he is wise
• 30:43
  and kindly nonetheless so everybody is dangerous gimme me and of course you can imagine the glint
• 30:50
  in the eye as he says that and he goes on to say that thanks to the arrival of the hobbits a thing
• 30:56
  is about to happen that has not happened since the elder days the ants are going to wake up
• 31:02
  and find that they are strong wonderfully stirring speech that is what will they do
• 31:10
  ask legerus in astonishment i do not know said gander remember he's not superland
• 31:17
  he's not god he's not all knowing but he knows something's happening but not what and that's
• 31:23
  that as high as you can get as a character in a novel without making them into something that
• 31:28
  sucks all the energy out of an adventure once you're just doing a side bar here on the use
• 31:34
  of line breaks this chapter in a modern novel probably could be divided in lots of different
• 31:42
  chapters because there are moments where we reach a peak and the way Tolkien gives us a moment to
• 31:49
  appreciate that peak is to give a line break so it's like different scenes almost and that's
• 31:56
  very good because if you run straight on that underlining of what the ants about to do could be lost
• 32:03
  but then we modulate into another phase in this conversation where gandalf sits down
• 32:10
  and we return to the the riddle about him after hearing about the ants who are also a riddle
• 32:17
  because we don't know what they're going to do and we get some beautiful descriptions of the new
• 32:24
  gandalf he looks like his hands are filled with light as a cup is with water he's also able to
• 32:32
  look directly at the sun don't try that at home he tells them that he is now the white but
• 32:41
  hope isn't victory remember keep mistakes high and he says that black is mightier still he can't
• 32:50
  just go in and fight it out he has to he needs allies he isn't in fact he's not the one who's
• 32:58
  actually in the fight it's Frodo isn't it so that's the wonderful irony of this story
• 33:05
  note here that there is a moment of very brief tent temptation where gandalf wonders have I made a
• 33:12
  mistake if I taken the ring I could have been as powerful but then he realizes that it's gone
• 33:20
  beyond him the deadly peril as he puts it of him taking that route is removed but it's good that
• 33:28
  they still get this fact that he isn't so sure of his own moves that he doesn't regret things
• 33:33
  is done we get another change of direction here at this point gandalf tells arrogant that it's
• 33:41
  the next stage of their particular journey is to go to ederas and he's needs to do that both because
• 33:47
  of the geopolitics of the situation but also because he gave his word and these things are now
• 33:53
  there is a new firm direction that stage the hunt for the hobbits is finished we're now moving on
• 34:00
  but interesting here that we get this moment of what I would say like a set piece which in a film
• 34:09
  would be set to swelling music it's on page 104 so we get this moment where we get the two heroes
• 34:16
  standing side by side yes we will set out together say arrogant but I do not doubt that you will
• 34:22
  come there before me if you wish he rose and looked long at gandalf the others gazed at them in
• 34:28
  silence as they stood there facing one another the gray figure of the man arrogant son of
• 34:33
  arathor was tall and stern as stone his hand upon the hilt of his sword he looked as if some
• 34:40
  king out of the mists of the sea had stepped onto the shores of lesser men before him stooped
• 34:45
  the old figure white shining now as if with some light kindled within bent laden with years
• 34:52
  but holding a power beyond the strength of kings so it's like a moment where a lot of writers
• 34:58
  would end the chapter but we don't get that here we actually get another line break because
• 35:07
  there's still more to say what we get instead is the bow rag tail and I think this is because
• 35:14
  talking realized in this riddle an answer game who's playing with us that he needs to provide
• 35:19
  the answer about what happened to gandalf or the reader will not be interested in the journey to
• 35:25
  ederas that itch has to be scratched shall we say it's put in the way that the characters within
• 35:32
  the tail want the answers but I feel sure that it's actually a reader demand here and we get the
• 35:39
  wonderful tail within a tail of gandalf saying what happened when he fell down into the abyss
• 35:46
  the cadence of this story is just beautiful to listen to versions where it's read out
• 35:52
  any of the audio versions it is wonderfully done start his starts at the place long time I fell
• 36:01
  to place where time is not counted it has a legendary and epic cadence I was looking for words
• 36:09
  I was thinking well it's miltonic from the from the poet John Milton who talking would have read
• 36:16
  many many times I think yes Lewis calls him the like the church organ poet the one of thunder's
• 36:25
  away it's also elemental if you look at it you've got fire and ice and snow and darkness and water
• 36:34
  has that feel of an absolutely elemental battle that's taking place
• 36:42
  and you get some wonderful names that really fit the location so they go down into the depths
• 36:47
  and they go out to a place called ziraka ziggle which is pointy like the actual place it is right
• 36:53
  up on the peak talking is so brilliant with his names of course but let me point out the absolute
• 37:01
  talking moment here which is within this miltonic elemental story he bursts the bubble
• 37:10
  Gandalf suddenly you guessed it he suddenly laughs but what would they say in song he says
• 37:20
  there's no one to see it those that looked up from afar thought that the mounting was
• 37:25
  mounting was crowned with storm thunder they heard and lightning they said smote upon
• 37:30
  Kelliptil and leapt back broken into tongues of fire so those are probably the elves down in
• 37:37
  lothlorian who saw this and Gandalf sort of saying well let's get this into perspective what was a
• 37:43
  big thing with me looks like a thunderstorm to someone else and that ability to see how other
• 37:48
  see him is what humanizes Gandalf and his story ends with the great words that he has come back
• 37:57
  until my task is done so he's been sent back he says after that time where he he passes out
• 38:06
  of thought and time those words on the top of page 106 we're all just worth reading
• 38:12
  they're so wonderful naked I was sent back for a brief time until my task is done and naked
• 38:18
  unlay upon the mountain top the tab behind me crumbled into dust the window gone the ruin stair
• 38:26
  was choked with burned and broken stone I was alone forgotten without escape upon the hard
• 38:33
  horn of the world so it goes on wonderful poetic writing and note that we've got the idea that he
• 38:40
  was sent back and if you're sent it denotes a sender but Tolkien never tells us who sent Gandalf
• 38:50
  and this is one of the things he says in his letters is that he removed all the
• 38:54
  religious Christian overtones in his story to and it has this one for deepening effect because the
• 39:04
  mystery and the awe and the wonder is maintained by not giving us easy answers so it's no eluvitar set
• 39:11
  me back or one of the vallar set me back we don't get the answer we just get this mysterious idea
• 39:18
  that there is forces in this world who are paying attention to what is happening and intervening
• 39:25
  in the shape of Gandalf without pulling the strings in an obvious way Gandalf is taken by eagle
• 39:32
  favorite escape mechanism to Karas Galathon and he is healed there and he has reciprocal
• 39:41
  counsel with the elves I like the fact that it's not just him telling the elves all the elves
• 39:45
  telling him they talk and they share and he comes with yet more riddles and these ones are ones
• 39:54
  which are not given answers until later in the story so we've answered some of the riddles earlier
• 40:01
  but we're now given a whole new batch arrogant gets a riddle which leaves him to lead
• 40:08
  him to choose a difficult path to get to minister earth legolas gets a warning and it's really
• 40:15
  about death and leaving and departure particularly so it's a personal one and even gimli's
• 40:24
  message is a little bit of a riddle because it says have a care to lay thine axe to the right tree
• 40:33
  that's the lesson he already knew as he enters fangirl but he has the idea of there are more
• 40:39
  more than one kind of tree and he says i'm he actually realizes it's not at all about trees but about
• 40:47
  who his enemy is since Gandalf's head is now sacred let us find one that is right to cleave so he's
• 40:53
  often find orcs and saruman or someone else to attack and now we move rapidly into the last part
• 41:03
  of this chapter which is getting on with the journey to edras and the wrapping up in the cloak
• 41:12
  is like the drawing avail or ending that part of the story smothering the white light so that we
• 41:19
  can get on with the every day but the arrival of the every day is done with the dramatic arrival of
• 41:26
  shadow facts he has a great entrance one of the best entrances in the novel because we see him
• 41:32
  coming from afar and everyone gives a verdict on him well actually i don't think gimli does but
• 41:40
  arrogant he is him legolas sees him and then Gandalf says that is shadow facts he is the chief
• 41:45
  of the mirras lord of horses and not even feared and king of rohan has ever looked on a better does
• 41:52
  he not shine like silver and run as smoothly as a swift stream so giving descriptions to a character
• 41:59
  is a way of lightning the narration you don't have to put that in there Gandalf's told us what
• 42:05
  we're seeing arriving towards us note that there's different ways of communicating with horses here
• 42:12
  Gandalf talks to the horses like legolas does we saw legolas talk to arod earlier this sort of special
• 42:22
  way of treating animals that tree-bid mentions that the the elves woke up the trees by talking to them
• 42:30
  so it's this sort of similar idea of this this connection between natural things but also there's
• 42:36
  a special relationship here between Gandalf and shadow facts which is thought he bent his thought
• 42:46
  and summoned shadow facts that way so he's obviously a horse above all other horses
• 42:52
  and just finally in what has been quite a long ride through the white rider chapter i just want
• 42:59
  to point out there is a nice much neglected probably you've overlooked it paragraph right at the end
• 43:08
  it's as they journey away because we tend to think of rohan now thanks to
• 43:14
  having seen it in films there's just lots of grass for many hours they rode on through the
• 43:19
  meads and riverlands often the grass was so high that it reached above the knees of the riders
• 43:25
  and their steed seemed to be swimming in a gray green sea but that in lansi of grass they came across
• 43:34
  came upon many hidden pools and broad acres of sedge waving above wet and treacherous bogs
• 43:40
  but shadow facts found the way and the other horses followed in his swath so rohan is a new
• 43:50
  once country it's not just grassland it has bogs it has sedge and it feels more real as a result
• 43:57
  not as simple as ones that we've seen in a sort of filmic version of it
• 44:03
  and then we use the sunset as the connection to war again this has been done in other chapters
• 44:10
  and it's a favorite move I think of Tolkien so as the sun red fire sinks into the grass
• 44:17
  low upon the edge of sight shoulders of the mountains glinted red upon either side
• 44:22
  a smoke seemed to rise up and darken the sun's disc to the hue of blood
• 44:27
  as if it had kindled the grass as it paused down under the rim of earth
• 44:32
  so there's a gap of rohan and legolas can see smoke what may that be he asks battle and war
• 44:42
  said Gandalf ride on so we we know that Mary and Pippin have arrived at Isengard at the end of the
• 44:50
  previous chapter we're now getting a hint of what might be happening there but we haven't we're
• 44:57
  not given the answer we're given the riddle we're given the hint and we have to wait to find
• 45:02
  the answers so there we are that's the chapter of laughter and riddles and the next one
• 45:09
  we reach the king of the golden hall thank you for listening
• 45:18
  thanks for listening to myth makers podcast brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy
• 45:25
  visit oxfordcenterforfattery.org to join in the fun find out about our online courses
• 45:32
  in person stays in Oxford plus visit our shop for great gifts tell a friend and subscribe
• 45:39
  wherever you find your favorite podcasts worldwide
• 45:49
  warning the following zippercruder radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with
• 45:54
  f words when you're hiring we at zippercruder know you can feel frustrated for lore and even
• 46:00
  like your efforts are futile and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get
• 46:05
  flooded with candidates who are just fine fortunately zippercruder figured out how to fix all that
• 46:12
  and right now you can try zippercruder for free at zippercruder.com slash zip with zippercruder you
• 46:18
  can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast which is our
• 46:23
  absolute favorite f word in fact four out of five employers who post on zippercruder get a quality
• 46:29
  candidate within the first day fantastic so whether you need to hire four 40 or 400 people
• 46:37
  get ready to meet first rate talent just go to zippercruder.com slash zip to try zippercruder
• 46:43
  for free don't forget that zippercruder.com slash zip finally that zippercruder.com slash zip