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When Calling Your Boss An Idiot Backfires · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not asking you to hide anything.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no put it out there.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let the people see it.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've never not worked in a hospital working department.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Zach, that's a hard question.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have no answer for it.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch, this is between the headlines.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: For nearly two decades, East Mississippi Community College and head coach Buddy Stevens have been synonymous with one of the most dominant programs in junior college football.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: But as of Monday, that era is over.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Stevens is out.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll dig into what that means for the Lions and for EMCC.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, the dispatch hosted a community listening session earlier this week and a few clear themes emerged about what folks here want to see.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll break that down too, but first.
• 0:57
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  SPEAKER_03: This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi.
• 1:28
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• 2:03
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• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to Between the Headlines with the managing editor of the commercial dispatch, Zach Player.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I am Dispatch Publisher Peter.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am sitting in for David Chisholm while he takes a much needed vacation.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: He'll be back next week.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've been pounding Red Bulls, Zach, and we'll try to work in at least one reference to urine just to make you feel you know I don't want you to feel too out of sorts with me sitting across from you.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Zach, Buddy Stevens, let's start there.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you start by telling everybody who is Buddy Stevens?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of frame this up for us.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he was the larger than life.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: He's the larger-than-life uh junior college uh coaching legend.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um he's the star of the Netflix documentary the first two seasons of the Netflix documentary, last Last Chance You.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Got to be one of the winningest coaches in uh community college uh or junior college football history.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Overall record of 155 and 31.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that's what is that 83 percent?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: Something like that.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Something like that, yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty remarkable.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: And five national championships, uh uh a slew of other state uh community college championships.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh a lot of kids came through that program and went on to become stars at uh four-year colleges.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh a lot of people came through that program, sort of the brand that got them the Netflix uh spot was that uh a lot of kids who had started at four-year programs, high-profile four-year programs, got in trouble, washed out, needed a little bit more massaging, came to Buddy, and Buddy put them back in the spotlight in a couple of years.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: So um on the surface, looks like the system was working, but as we know from the documentary, if nothing else, uh there's a little more to it than that.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't watch the entire documentary.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's still presumably available on Netflix, and uh they featured EMCC in the first two seasons.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and but the episodes that I saw of that and clips that I've seen on social media show Buddy as a uh a maniac at times.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just as in an over-the-top, what you would imagine as an over-the-top football coach um who, you know, got results.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess one of the questions I have as somebody that's not a huge sports fan, but am certainly aware of EMCC football is uh was that larger than life personality the reason for their success?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's an interesting question because I would I would I would say that probably to an extent, yes, because you know, in the same manner, and and you know, we've talked about this off-mic, this is um uh one of two very similar larger than life characters that we had in the Golden Triangle getting results.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: And neither one of them are working at their former places of employment anymore, I don't guess.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, in the same way that Joe Max Higgins used that brand to get results for the link, and people looked at him and went, catch this guy, but he really knows what he's doing, but he does it funny.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it gets attention.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sure where football is concerned, that's a really effective way to get recruits.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's a very effective way to maybe at times get the most out of certain people.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, in leadership, you gotta have some nuance and you've gotta have some diversity in your approach.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: And anytime that your brand gets bigger than your duty, it goes wrong.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get into what he actually said and and the substance of that, um uh this is not a decision or an action made by EMCC that's just has local implications.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Buddy was uh somebody that people were aware of on a national stage, and this is made national news, yeah, picked up by the New York Times, other sports podcasts are talking about this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is big news.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: It matters quite a bit, and it matters quite a bit because of um uh what Buddy built at EMCC, and you cannot deny that that is the case.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh however, uh a couple of things here that I'd like to go into.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and I don't I don't know if you were going to introduce what Buddy actually said.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's talk about that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so this is a uh this is a reporting that uh that we did.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a story that dropped on August 27th.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was last Thursday.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the headline, uh, people can go back and read it is new MACCC playoff format question mark.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Buddy Stevens is not a fan.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just pull out some some quotes, but basically, this is a decision that Mississippi Community College presidents made to change the format of the playoffs.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's just to kind of frame this story.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in response to the new formats, Stevens said, quote, they're idiots.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he said this of the leadership in charge of changing the format.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: He also said, quote, this is what really happened.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you really want to write something, write the truth.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is Buddy talking to our reporter.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what happened.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: The presidents decided they didn't want to have to spend a lot of money to travel.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they did our system, our playoffs, and our yearly schedule in order for them to be able to back out of the playoffs if they want to.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: He also said later on in that same story, and this is a longer quote, but I think we need this for the context.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: He said, we wouldn't have won, and he's speaking of EMCC here, we wouldn't have won two national championships because we were the second place team in the North.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: What he's saying is that this new format would prevent them out.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a very well thought out process, he said before struggling to find a word to describe the whole situation.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was really junkified the way they decided they were going to do it, and there wasn't a lot of real thought.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was very surprised at how it came out because there were actual people who have doctorates that came up with this.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the things he said.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and and Zach, I I've got a couple of uh things, a couple of directions I want to go with this.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: The first one is is what he said really that bad?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, uh he was talking out of line, but uh is it uh and of course you shouldn't call your boss uh and his peers idiots.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but for somebody with Buddy Stevens' track record, do these quotes get him fired?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously the the answer is yes, but it seems in the grand scheme of all of the things that Buddy Stevens has ever done or said this is pretty light.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let me tell you why I think that this is what got him instead of some of the other things, because if you're looking at it objectively and you're looking at the actual impact on uh your uh public?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: If you're worried about academics, if you're worried about their actual stewardship of public money, let's do some history here.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: Why wasn't the televised and nationally broadcast fight with Mississippi Delta Community College 10 years ago or however long ago that was, why wasn't that the end of it?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: That would have been the end of it for a lot of people, but that wasn't the end of it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: He made bombastic statements about here and there and everywhere for this entire time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: That wasn't the end of it.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: We reported in 2019 that the athletic department was bleeding money, and we showed where they were spending some of the money, and that wasn't the end of it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm gonna tell you two things that I think were the end of it.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: Through Buddy Stevens' first eleven seasons, he went 110 and 13.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: Over his last six, he's gone forty-five and eighteen.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Now that's not bad.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Forty-five and eighteen, uh if you're an SEC coach, you're taking that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: But it's definitely a step down.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Now you couple that with he could have said this about he could have said far worse about Joe Public.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: He could have said this about a player, he could have said this about the citizens of Mississippi.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_04: Or worse, they wouldn't have cared because they haven't before.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: They cared about it because he finally said it something about people who EMCC felt it hurt their pride and they were accountable to.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: This is MACCC.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: So this is this is a group of people that Scott also Brooks pays attention to.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Whether he's paying attention to the budget or whether he's paying attention to the reputation that his college has on the national scale because of a fight at Mississippi Delta, whether any of the things that he said before have made any difference whatsoever, they make a difference now because he said it about Scott publicly and it printed.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: He said it about Scott's peers publicly and it printed.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that was the difference.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because this is a group that they felt uh pride in and felt accountable to, because I can tell you that out there in that pasture in scuba, they haven't felt a lot of or they haven't um they haven't demonstrated a hell of a lot of accountability to the general public.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you gave two answers uh in that answer.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the first one I want to go back to, you seem to suggest that maybe because of EMCC's record, um are you suggesting that maybe EMCC was looking for an opportunity?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: So if it if if he's still at 90 percent winning national championships instead of falling to 83 percent and not winning national championships, I think it's a fair question of whether this gets him.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um also, if this isn't if he's not saying this about Scott also Brooks and his friends, I don't know if it gets him either.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Strip away the calling college pres uh community college presidents idiots, strip away kind of the the wild language, was he raising a valid point?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I mean I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: I don't uh I I'm not the uh I I I'm not into community college football.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: So uh their playoff format doesn't mean anything to me.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but it does mean something to him.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: So if it if you're gonna get uh constructive criticism and cross-examination from anybody about the playoff format, I would say Buddy Stevens would be a credible person to listen to in that discussion.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that what he was trying to do here was establish himself as a credible person to listen to on this subject.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: And the community college presidents didn't want to hear him.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh y you touched on this earlier, but uh we all answer to someone.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Joe Max Higgins found that out last year.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and Buddy Stevens just found it out.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I uh not to get too philosophical on this, but uh it's something we should all keep in mind, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when we're finding some level of success.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, don't don't uh don't let your hat get too big.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is not the first time our reporting has had major fallout.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um we write a story, it highlights something that somebody did or something that somebody said, and that person ends up losing their job.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um But yes.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or th there are other examples of fallout, but that's a very personal result that sometimes happens.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: As a reporter, how do you view that?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I would imagine it can be a lot to shoulder.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: It can be.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um and reporting that I have done has resulted in those consequences for sources.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um reporting that I've edited and r reporting that I have guided with with people d under me have have resulted in that as well.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Harry Sanders is another example.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: It it wasn't an immediate Right But it had consequences.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um the f you know, the first thing that I try to remember is for me, is that whatever was said, I didn't say it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I recorded it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um I reported it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: And the judgment the judgment call of reporting that goes through several levels.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: That goes through the reporting level, that goes through the editing level.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm the managing editor at the dispatch, so um, you know, when we've had stories that I've reported, or hell, even stories that you you talked about the Harry Sanders uh issue that came from a general assignment reporter.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: That went through me, that went through you.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: We all sat together and said, is this relevant?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Does this matter?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, is is this something that we need to print and why?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: And we did, and we made that decision.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we made that decision in the public good.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: And if we're following those standards and we and we can uh and we can stand by those ethics and we're consistent with it, um, then we're not the ones who said it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: And we did the public service of letting people know about it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: In this instance with Jared Connerly, our sports reporter who wrote this story about Buddy, uh Buddy is sitting there telling them, and you can print it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: I want you to print it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Tell the truth.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, he knew what he was saying, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: And he knew who he was talking to, and he knew that not only did he know there was a possibility of it being reported, in that moment he was begging for that result.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: So these are Buddy's consequences, and you can't kill the messenger.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're the messenger, you can't kill yourself.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so there's there's really three ways that that can go for a reporter, and two of them are bad.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the first that we talked about, okay, I have this quote that is that it that may be seen as inflammatory, incendiary, it may have consequences for the source.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've gone through, I've gone through it with my editor, I've gone through it with my publisher, uh, whatever the process is in that.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um this is ethical reporting, we've done it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not the one who said this, move on to the next one.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: And that that's the way you got to do it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um the other two ways is and and I've seen both uh in my in my career.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: I've been in this for 22 years.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: God.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um it can get to feel a little a little good to you, and you want to build your brand on that sort of thing, and you want to take credit for somebody's downfall and you know, build a body count on who all you got fired.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's not that's not the way.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you don't you also don't want to feel so guilty about your reporting having that result that you're too scared to do it again, or you try to avoid those things, or you let it weigh on you so heavily that it affects your ability to do the next one.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: So you you you gotta pick the middle way.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: And uh it those are conversations all across that spectrum that I've had with reporters and that I know you have had with reporters as well.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we uh a lot of news sources have reported that he was fired, but do we even we haven't reported that because we don't we don't know it on the record.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um we've heard all manner of things off the record, um, but we haven't heard on the record.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: And this goes back to one of the points that I was making about Buddy's statements uh and and EMCC's response to it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: The idea that EMCC is accountable to who EMCC chooses to be accountable to from moment to moment.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's problematic, and that problem has really come to the fore here with um uh uh some request for information and request for records that we have out to EMCC and their response to them so far.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what have we requested?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so And these are these are open records requests.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Open records requests.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um so we so whether somebody is working at a state institution, whether they're employed there, their hire date, their last day working there, their salary, their contract, the terms thereof, um, what position that they hold.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: Those things are just standard operating procedure public record.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: You you ought to be able to call up there and know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: They have been very reticent.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's or they've refused, frankly.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: EMCC.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: EMCC has refused, frankly, to say whether he whether Buddy Stevens is still employed with the college.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um because as you know, uh you can be removed from one position, uh especially in college and university circles, and you can be made the director of development for bull crap we made up.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: And we don't know on the record whether that has happened.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: We asked the college, does he still work there?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: We're not telling you that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we asked them to cite a statute that gives them their cover for not telling us that.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is public record.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because it is public records, that's our understanding.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: And their answer to that was no comment.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: So we sent then a formal public records request to them.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: We looked at their open records policy, which is not something We necessarily have to follow to the letter because all we have to do is follow the law that establishes that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: But out of courtesy, we looked at their policy.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: Those things are supposed to go to Dr.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Also Brooks, so that's who it was addressed to.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: And we listed our statute that we are citing for our right to have the following information, or records pertaining to the following information.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: His employment status, including his first day and his last day, or if no last day is relevant, his current position with the college.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_04: Then the most absurd thing of the whole thing happened.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: We got back a an email, or Jared got back an email from uh one of their marketing people, communications people, William Everett, who we were told was the point person for all things related to Buddy Stevens.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: So we sent it to him addressed to Dr.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: Also Brooks.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: He confirms receipt of it by sending back the policy with the word writing highlighted.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: So the argument suggests that you sent us an email, you haven't sent us a request in writing.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: So in my view, that's a bad faith response.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: They're obfuscating, they're circumventing, they're just trying to tell us we're we're just not going to do it because we don't want to.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: And they have to tell us these things.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: And we have spoken with the uh with Tom Hood with the Ethics Commission.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um and we he's offered to mediate between the two parties.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: I emailed the president, this whoever this Everett guy is, and a few more people, stated our position, stated how absurd it is, uh Mr.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: Everett's response that an email isn't in writing, which by the way, Tom Hood confirms in correspondence with me that in the year of our Lord 2026, an email is absolutely a written request.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just trying to understand where y'all are coming from, and you have to cite a statute if you're denying crickets.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: But in that email, I have also said, hey, Tom Hood has offered to mediate with your general counsel.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: Is that something that you're willing to do?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Crickets.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, that entire exercise exemplifies how accountable EMCC, Scott also Brooks, and his subordinates believe that they are to the public of Mississippi.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't believe that if Buddy Stevens had said these things about anybody but him and his friends, that it would have had any impact.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um typically our next step would be uh filing a complaint with the Mississippi Ethics Commission.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: That's correct.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: EMCC has seven business days by statute to respond.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um if they give us the records within that time, then no complaint.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh if they but if they deny at any point between now and then, uh then a complaint's coming.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and that uh or if they wait longer than seven business days and do not respond, then we can file a complaint then.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: And what that complaint essentially does is it says, um, we feel like we have a legal standing to get this record, and they have a legal obligation to provide it.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: We went through all of the necessary steps to get that record, and they've denied it either uh by uh overtly denied it or have done it by acclamation by waiting too long.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: And we want a ruling that says we're we're petitioning the ethics commission for a ruling on that question.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and this whole process basically gives the public recourse when a public body, a city, a county, a school board, uh, a community college in this case, right, does not comply with open meetings laws or open records laws.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a process that's not just open to the media.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Any John Doe can file a complaint.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: They can file an open records request and file a complaint.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is state law that we're talking about.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And these are ways that it might sound that like the dispatch is splitting hairs here, but we try to be precise in what we report.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: And we can't say Buddy Stevens has been fired from the college because the college won't confirm it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: And in these ethics commission things, uh because it's available to citizens, it's one of the few things that Mississippi does right in not making the citizen bear the cost of holding the government accountable.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: A complaint to the Ethics Commission doesn't cost the complainant.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: It will cost the taxpayers of Mississippi whatever in this case EMCC is willing to pay their attorney to defend it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so there again, we're using taxpayer money to keep taxpayers from knowing things that taxpayers have a right to know.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that's something to uh that's a real feather in your cap if you're a public body.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Shifting gears.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Monday night, the dispatch hosted a listening session, is what we called it.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Community listening session.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: We invited about 25, 25, 26 members of the public ended up attending.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then a large segment of our own staff, uh, and I think your entire newsroom was there.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um we asked questions to prompt conversation about what people want to see in our community and things that the paper could be doing differently.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought the discussion was great.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there was no this is not something we were reporting on.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um everything said was off the record.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was meant just to be a roundtable discussion.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of good good ideas came from it, a lot of feedback for the paper, some actionable things that that we've already put into place.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but there were several recurring themes that came up in that uh in that conversation.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them was the need, and and Zach, we had, I mean, you were there, we had young, old, black, white, male, female.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was a really diverse group.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Very diverse group.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Very um engaged.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the recurring themes was both for young people as a way to bring them into um into the city a little bit more, give them more participation in civic life, and with uh avid readers of the paper, everybody expressed an interest in having more explainer type articles.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, think civics classes.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: How does stuff work?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why, uh, how are tax rates set?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do we know what everybody pays in property taxes?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what role does government play in bringing businesses to town?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those types of things.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we try to get at that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a weekly feature called Ask the Dispatch.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we rolled that out, what, maybe two years ago.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Two years ago close.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's meant to do just that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody has a burning question, why are things the way they are, they submit questions to us and we try to get them answered.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's been um I think that's been well received.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: That listening session made me think about well, maybe we need to broadcast that in different ways.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we need to present it on social media.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, uh we're doing the thing that everybody said that they wanted to see, but maybe our delivery method changed.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: And that was something that I thought about was um maybe because in our stories we explain especially with taxation, we uh we know that stuff and we tell people and we try to break it down as simply as we can for the reader.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and with Ask the Dispatch, that's been uh uh another delivery method.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that there's a lot uh I th I think that there's a lot there that we need to be thinking about in terms of how to diversify our delivery methods to reach the most people in the most effective way.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Zach, you know, in addition to Ask the Dispatch, um you know, we've seen in the past few months elected officials get more interactive on social media.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh even in the last administration, I mean Pierre Beard did a lot on Facebook talking to his constituents, uh asking questions, giving feedback.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um Lately we've seen Jason Spears doing that.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Jason is doing a, you know, I would say a higher level technical anal uh uh explanation of the finances of a city.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but he has, you know, just in recent days, I saw a very helpful infographic on how budgets are set for a city, what the step-by-step process is.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the feedback as I'm reading those comments on those posts, people really seem to there's something here.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people want to understand why things work the way they do.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of course it's social media, they are going to bring skepticism, but I think there's something too, I mean, heck, we try to do it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, there's something to trying to explain why do things work the way they do.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but and and we talked about, you know, our responsibility to vary up our delivery uh methods for those things.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: And there's two other pieces to this that I do think um falls into the realm of public responsibility.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll start here with a question for you.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: Jason Spears posts what he posts, it's very helpful.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: I agree with you uh that it's very helpful, it's very responsible, it's very well put together things.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: And that yeah, there's been some cross-examination, there's been some, but uh but everybody that's that I've seen comment on that, or at least the vast majority of them, are approaching that in good faith.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: But let me put this question to you would those same people have those same responses in that good of faith if those same if that same information and those same slides were being posted by Stephen Jones.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think in this particular example, Jason Spears brings a unique skill set to the city council.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: He is a um a wealth manager, he advises people on money, he has an established track record at Columbus Municipal School District as a board of trustees member first and then the president of that board.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And under his leadership there, his fiscal leadership, that district basically got debt free.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not debt-free, but in a uh much better financial state.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got somebody with a obvious expertise in a particular field.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think more than Steven Jones, more than any other board member, uh city council member, maybe even more than Jim Brigham, I think Jason is viewed as an expert in finances.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that this is a unique case.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if this information came from anyone else, I think people would be a little more skeptical.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is a unique situation.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and that may be true in this case, because of Jason's expertise.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_04: But what I'm saying, and is what I have seen, is that um, and and you've seen this in politics from the local level, you've seen it on state level, you've seen it on the national level.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: People are more and more and more bringing their preconceived notions into discussions.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they're bringing uh whether they like the speaker into whether the speaker is telling the truth.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: As long as that is an issue.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_04: And and I'm not I'm not uh those preconceived notions can be based on a range of things.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just the not just the obvious one between Stephen and Jason.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it could be there could be all kinds of things informing or misinforming your preconceived notion of whether somebody is telling the truth, whether something is real.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um and a lot of times it's whether you like the person or whether you like the thing they're saying.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and in order to get good information to people, um, explain to them thoroughly.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: You could do that all day long, it could be anybody, but there's a group of people that Jason, with his expertise and with his good ideas, are not reaching because it's Jason talking.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: Just like there would be a group of people who, if Stephen was talking about real estate, would say, Well, that's Stephen.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there's this and this and this I don't like about Stephen, so I don't care what he says.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: And that that that goes into what that informs as much as anything right now what people are willing to know.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: And and I feel like that's a problem, and I think that apathy is the other problem.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think that people are beaten down so by whatever, that it has become easy in a lot of times to make their circle very small and to disengage with everything outside of that circle.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that all three of these things, the way the way that information is being delivered, um a deterioration of credible listening and disconnected apathy in communities that spans uh across the spectrum of information.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think all of those things are working together to uh to to affect how people are informed.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll say something that uh I tell my kids.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can control your actions and what you can say.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can't control how anybody receives it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to consistently go out and do the right thing for the right reason over and over again.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Over and over again.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all you can do.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's the conversation that I have in the newsroom all the time.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you just plug away at it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not a one-time thing, it's a it's a a building of a reputation, it's a building of a credibility.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Were there any other themes from that listening session that jumped out at you?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was the one that was overwhelming to me, and it it seemed to span.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that I think that it is very, very valid, but I do think uh, and please don't take anything that I've said as, you know, pointing four more back at the at the public.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: I just think that it is very important to understand the entire landscape of information and how it is known and understood.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you can read if two people can read the same story with the same objective information and leave that, not coming to two c different conclusions, what they believe about what should happen next, but two different, very different conclusions about what that story says, um, based on preconceived notions.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's always going to be a problem until that's not.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_04: And just acknowledging that part of it as being a challenge to getting information out there and and and and it resonating.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Another one of the recurring themes that we heard is the importance of conversations like that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: We heard a lot of people speak up and say, I wish there were more opportunities for us to get together and talk about this, our community, talk about what this community needs.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are planning follow-up listening sessions.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we don't have one on the books now, but we plan to do another one in the next two or three weeks.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you are listening and you're interested in participating, this is not necessarily we want to hear your feedback on the dispatch.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is not necessarily just a dispatch thing.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is just an opportunity to get together and talk about community.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Email Susan Wilder at the commercial dispatch, swilder at cdispatch.com if you're interested in participating in one of these and and we'll get you scheduled on one.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Zach, three things to know.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_04: Number one, the Prairie Arts Festival returns this weekend for the 48th year in downtown West Point.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: As always, the event offers food, fun, arts and crafts, vendors, and live entertainment.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: Number two, the fall slate for the barn concert series in Stephen K.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: Ellis' backyard on Mac Davis Road has been announced.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: The first show is September 17th with headliners Kyle Kite, Early Grace Davis, and Goodlow Chillcut, the top three winners of last year's Munson and Brothers Songwriters Contest.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: Tickets are$30.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Additional donations benefit local charities.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: Number three, the City of Columbus did approve a new procurement policy this week that will require secret competitive bids for more purchases.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: The threshold for construction and nonprofessional services now requiring bids has been lowered to$1,000, while commodities has been lowered to$3,000.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: Bids for anything less than$75,000 can be submitted by sealed hard copy or electronically.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: You've been listening to Between the Headlines with this week, Zach and Peter.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: David will be back next week.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Join us on our Facebook group.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just go to Facebook and search for Between the Headlines.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: We should pop up.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know what you think there or send tips to tips at cdispatch.com.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: And if Peter's not going to say it, I'll say it for David.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_04: Let's keep it friendly and we'll keep it real.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just a simple old country boy, but um I think that makes sense.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's what old people do.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: That he is.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is Peter Rimes, publisher of The Dispatch.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, we try to keep news and opinion separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government, and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: The Dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity, and our reporting will always reflect that.