Latest / Pastors Perspective / Pastors' Perspective-10/12/26

Transcript

Pastors' Perspective-10/12/26 · Pastors Perspective

• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going? Welcome to Pastor's Perspective. I'm your host,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Brian Perez, and it is that hour in the day
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: that we open up the phone lines to talk with
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: you guys, find out what's going on in your life,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: what you're learning from God's word, what's your question?
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: are about God's word. 888-564-6173 is the number to call.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We also live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram if
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: you wanna watch. But if you just wanna listen, that's
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: fine too. But we really encourage you to call in
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: if you have a question. Don't just, don't just be
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a participant or, uh, what do you call it, uh, uh,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: there when you're sitting watching instead of participating. Armchair. That'll work.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Armchair something. There's a word I'm thinking of. No, that's something.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. Don't just be a spectator. That's literally
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a participant anyway, that was easy.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Sorry guys, um, welcome. 888-564-6173 is our number. We've got
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Char Broderson here today. He's the lead pastor of Calvary
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Chapel Costa Mesa, and Mike Chaddock is joining us online. Uh,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: he's the pastor of Image Church in San Juan Capistrano
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: here in California. He's not in the studio today. Char
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: referred to it as, uh, he's on a satellite, so
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: we'll call it a chattalli because it's Mike Chattick. There
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: we go. OK, rough crowd today.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where's the, where's the canned laughter button? Yes, I've
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: got one of those, believe it or not, because I
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: use it all the time. I need to. No, 888-564-6173
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is our number. How are you guys doing? How was
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: your weekend and all that? Any, anything exciting, Mike? You
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: want to go first? Sure, yeah, we survived the great
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Southern California hurricane, so that, that was good. We did
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: our
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Worship by the lake night in Rancho Santa Margarita Saturday
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: night went well, all things considered with, uh, the rain
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and everything and then coming off a beautiful Sunday service, uh,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: bummed can't be there in the studio. Not quite the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: same thing, but glad to be here. Good to see
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: you guys. Yeah, good to see you too. Yeah, I got, uh,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I was invited to a retreat, um, up in Malibu. It's,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: there's a retreat center up there that we use, but, uh,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: facilitated by the Long Beach Church Collective, and they do
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a psalms retreat.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And it's literally, uh, it's a day and a half long,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's an evening all day and then
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a morning, and the whole thing is just immersed in
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: the Psalms. And you know, you walk through confession, then praise,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: lament and precatory, and then hope, and you just kind
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of look at each of these, talk about it a bit,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the theology of these things, and then what you do
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: is you actually write your own psalm under that kind
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of category. Man, it was like one of the most
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: just deeply cathartic experiences. I was saying, you know, Mike,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I think you'll relate to this. Same since the passing
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: of my brother-in-law, it's been really hard to articulate my prayers,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and I just feel like a lot of it's been
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: kind of the groanings that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: You know, just can't be articulated. Just the sadness, the grief,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the anger, and I feel like I finally, you know,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: just through the grace of God's spirit was able to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: tap into some of those things I haven't been able
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: to articulate and just talk to God about them and just,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: just a new freedom. And I even felt like on Sunday,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I just, all of a sudden I'm being able to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: articulate my prayers for people in our congregation, praying over
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: them and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: In just real clear ways that I'm asking God to
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: meet them and minister to them. So man,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I just feel so encouraged by that. And then we
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: had just, um, you know, we're in the Book of Acts,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and I just felt like God gave us a very
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: specific word about just
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Man, just cultivating the grace of God in our midst,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the ways that God is already at work and how
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: he wants to continue to work. So we talked about
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the grace of God. I defined it as, it's, uh,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the presence of God, the power of God, the gifts
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: of God among the people of God, making us more
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: like Jesus, making us more human. And like, where do
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you see that? Like, let's strengthen that. So it's, it
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: was a really beautiful weekend for me.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Nice, nice, and, and we just taught or we did
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: like a miniseries at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa the last
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: few Sundays in the Psalm, yeah, we did. So don't
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you kind of wish that, oh, I wish I'd gone
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to the retreat first. Yes, it's always like that. It's like,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: you know, you, you teach your sermon on Sunday morning
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and then maybe Monday for me is kind of a
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: day where I, you know, dip into other books and
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: so many times I've like started a new chapter and,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you know, a book I'm reading I've been like.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: If only I had this for yesterday's sermon. It's perfect,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you know. Yes, it is what it is. Yep, yep.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: That's what Mondays are for.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: 888-564-6173. Call in like Stanley. He's in Huntington Beach, listening
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: to K Wave. 888-564-6173 is the number he called. What's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: your question, Stanley?
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my question is, John, by the way, thank you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: so much for your serving the Lord. Thank you. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: also my question is, John 5:14. When the Lord healed
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the paralyzed person, he says, stop sinning.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And my words coming in and I mean for my
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: when I checked that there's one person, only two persons,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: wants for him to stop singing and there's one the
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the lady caught in the adultery and he said do
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: not live in the.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Uh, the life save for life. So but this was,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: what is what is mean by stop singing seen before
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: that's my question.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: All right, Mike, you wanna start?
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very interesting. It's obviously kind of scary, right?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Because it's insinuating that somehow, some way there's a connection
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: between this man's infirmity and his sin. I don't think
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: he's saying be sinless from this point on, but I
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: think he's making a connection that there is some sin
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that in some way or other, whether natural, demonic, whatever
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it is, has brought it on. Now, I think sometimes
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: we know that there are sins we do that have
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: direct and immediate consequences.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I think we've all experienced that. You can actually say, hey,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: you did this and this followed as a result. But
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: lest we get this idea that we live in this
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: mechanistic universe where every time we suffer, it must be
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: because of my sin, we have not only the Book
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of Job, for example, in the Old Testament, but in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this very same Gospel, the Gospel of John chapter 9.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: There's the case of the man born blind. And again, the,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the common belief at the time was sort of a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: mechanistic reaping and sowing where it's 1 to 1 all
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the time. If there's anything bad, you must have sinned,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. You see that theology in Job's friends,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of course, but in this case, Jesus said,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but that the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: glory of God may be revealed. So there is a mystery.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: There are times where we're suffering, we're going through pain, illness, loss,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, and it's a mystery. Same thing in Job. I'm,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I'm studying to preach.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Job coming up and honestly Job is in a way
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a frustrating book because if you're coming to it for
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: an answer to the question why you're gonna find out
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: God gives an answer you don't want to a question
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: you didn't ask, which is what kind of a world
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: do we actually live in?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: And it's a mysterious world and where we have to
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: entrust ourselves to a good and all wise creator. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the answer for Job is,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I am God. And this is enough. And Job never
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: actually is privy to what, of course, the narrator informs
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the reader of in the beginning. Well, hey, in the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: background here's Satan, and this is going on. Job never
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: knows this, never gets this answer. That's how he lives
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: his life. And so for some of us, certainly at
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: least at times in our lives, if not many times, uh, Char,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: like you brought up.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Passing of Michael, you know, like, to me, this is an,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: an utter mystery. It, it makes no sense to me.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And the more I try to make sense out of it,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the more frustrated I get. It's one of these mysteries
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: where I open up my hands and say, God, I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: do not understand, but I committed to you as an
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: all wise, all graceful Creator of God, and one day
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: he will make clear in eternity what seems wrong in time.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I, I would just agree. I mean,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: with what Mike was saying, just in the sense of,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you know, some, you know, I think scripture says, I'm
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: trying to remember the exact wording, you know, some sins
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: are evident and later other, you know, consequences follow. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I think Jesus here is identifying, as Mike said, you know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that this man's condition seems to be directly correlated with
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: his life of sin.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: And, and so Jesus is just talking, you know, like, look,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: if you go back to who knows what the consequences
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of that lifestyle would be, right? Like, returned upon you
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: for these things. And, and I, you know, I don't
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: think it's a, like you were saying, Mike, it's not karma,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it's not mechanistic in that way. But sin is cancerous.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: That's what it is. It is the deterioration of all
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that is good and holy and pure, uh, the way
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that God made things to be.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Sin is deteriorating cancer to God's goodness. And so, this
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: is just what it does, sin destroys. And so, you know,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Jesus is giving a direct warning to this man's life.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: You know, you go back to the sin, it's gonna
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: destroy you. There will be further consequences to it. So, um,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: of course, we don't know exactly what that was, um,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: but we can understand that, yes,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Sin in general destroys, it destroys us. It destroys our
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: relationship with God, it destroys our relationship with others. This
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: is just the nature of it. Stanley, what do you think?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, OK, uh, OK. Now I, I thought that at
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: first I thought that maybe that relate to the Sabbath
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: because the Lord, uh, the Jews, Jews talked about why
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: you picking up this Jew, uh, pick up your men,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: and Lord told him to do it, but the man
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: told me to take it, so maybe this one is
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a trigger, the first trigger for the Jews to using
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it against.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Lord, because.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: First, he don't know who told him or who killed him.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: But the Jewish told the the the, the, the, the parent, uh, the,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the paralyzed person said um.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Who picked uh we we got about who told you
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to do is like pick up the man 7 but
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: then even the the he knows.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: To Jews to wander looking for him. He don't appreciate
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the Lord's gratitude to the Lord. He turned around like
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: a pursuit against, I mean, try to, uh, through the bus,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: through the Lord in the bus or something. That's what
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I thought. Yeah, yeah, I think you are onto something, Stanley. Uh,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's directly connected in that way. Um,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: this man does seem to be unmoved by this miraculous
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: healing like.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: The the whole conversation's very strange, and if you actually
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: contrast it with uh the man born blind, I mean,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: he is like this beautiful witness of what it looks
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: like uh to testify, um, to the power that is
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: in Jesus' name. I once was blind, but now I see, right?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: It's this incredible testimony that we can all say, man,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: my testimony is something like that, you know, when Jesus
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: came into my life. But this man,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: It's different. He seems to be apathetic towards Jesus' offer.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: He seems to be apathetic towards Jesus's healing. There's no positive, um,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: kind of connection. And then when he finds out it's Jesus,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: he just goes and tells the religious leaders, and this
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: gets Jesus in trouble for healing someone on the Sabbath. Now,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I don't think what Jesus is saying here is connected
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: directly to that, but I think you are right in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: assessing the situation of the dynamic between this man.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And Jesus and him getting Jesus in trouble with the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: religious authorities at the time.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Stanley, thank you so much for your phone call today
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: on Pastor's Perspective. 888-564-6173 is the number you can call
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to speak with Char Broderson and Mike Chadtick. Let's go
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: to Nebraska. Heather watches us there on Facebook. Thank you, Heather,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: for calling 888-564-6173, and hello, we'll wave to Heather there watching. Uh,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: what's your question?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Um, I'm struggling. Um, um, my, my son, who is
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: only 33, has been diagnosed with liver cancer. And I've
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: gone through, I, I, you guys were kind of touching
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: on that with your conversation earlier. I'm struggling with.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: You know, why God, why my son?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Why, you know, take me. Mhm.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Um, and my.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: My friend recommended calling into you guys, um.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: But I, yeah, I'm struggling with that. Like, why God,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: why my son? Yeah.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Char.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Heather, I'm trying not to cry. No, it's OK
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to be sorry, yeah, you are.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Just fine as you are, just.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Heather, I'm, I'm just so sorry. Um, I'm so sorry
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that this, um, is your situation and that this is
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: happening to your son, and I believe that that's how
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: God feels as well. You know, we live in a
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: world that God did not intend.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And you know, I actually had this moment with my
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: son recently where he was kind of grieving some things
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that are happening in his life and I couldn't figure
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: out like what was going on. And I think a
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: friend helped me just kind of identify this, and I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: just had the moment to say to him, like,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry that your life hasn't turned out the way
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: that you wanted it. And I do believe that God
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: feels something of that for us as humans. Like that
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: he is grieved that the human experience for us so
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: far is one of pain and brokenness. It's one of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: cancer and, and early death. It's one where the good
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: die young.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: And so I, I, I know that um God our Father.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Um, feels your pain deeply, and we know that Jesus,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the Son feels it. He became one of us. He
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: subjected himself to all of this, um, to suffer with us,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to suffer for us, so that he might end all suffering.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: And yet,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: It doesn't change the pain, um.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: It doesn't change the loss in in the moment, right?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I, I'm, I'm, I mean, I, I was
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: trying to, you know, um, deal with it yesterday, and,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: but I'm still, I'm angry.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be angry at God and I
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: wanna find.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I want to find a way to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Use my belief in the Lord to get us through this,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm, but I'm struggling. Absolutely, yeah, I mean, Heather,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I think what you are expressing right now, um, there
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: is language in the book of Psalms that, uh, expresses
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying like.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm angry, but I don't want to be angry because
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I actually believe that God is who he says he is. And,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: you know, we have these psalms of lament that do
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: exactly that. They say, God, this is who you say
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: you are, and yet, that's not my experience. Where are you? Like,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: why do I see the wicked prospering, and yet my
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: son has cancer. You know, why?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Why do the good die young? You know, it's, it's
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: struggling with what we know about God in our lived reality,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and there is, uh, you know, disillusionment there. There is
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: anger and frustration and grief and all this to say,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: there's language in the scripture that allows us to bring
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: our anger to God, and that he can take it,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and he actually wants us, uh, to bring it to him.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: And so that we can wrestle with him and he
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: can wrestle with us over that, and we can
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: See his faithfulness.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: His presence and dare I say, even his goodness through
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the worst things that happen in our lives.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Mike.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I, you know, I don't think any of
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: us who, who have faith in Christ.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Who found the gospel beautiful.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: who've received grace want to be angry with God.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And I agree. I mean, I prefer that it not
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: be the case, but I, I pose this question.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Can God handle it?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: If and when we do get angry at him.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And I think the answer of the Psalms is yes.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the dangers is if we
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: find ourselves, and again, remember, God has compassion on us.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: We're not like slightly smaller than God. He's just a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: little bit bigger, you know, we pray the prayer, our Father,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and so maybe we picture him, you know, maybe too
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: much like an earthly father. Oh, you know, he's a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: little older than me, maybe a little bigger. Um, our,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: our Heavenly Father is.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is where the lang human language just
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: in a sense, it's like it's truthful insofar as it goes,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: but it, it fails really to reveal the full reality
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of who God is as our Father and
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I think when we are angry, we are invited through
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: scripture in the Psalms to speak that to God, to
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: share that with him, that he can handle it. Remember,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: scripture says he knows our frame. He remembers that we
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: are dust. We're, we're fragile, even the toughest of us.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Picture the toughest person.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: You know, by the way, yeah, I just, I've been
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: dealing with a, you know, loss and grief lately, a
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: number of friends, memories of people I've lost years ago
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: kind of hit me today first probably because it's a Monday. Um,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: but just all of a sudden I'm thinking about all
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: of this, and, and I was just kind of overwhelmed,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: you know, because the thing is you lose somebody, that's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: bad enough. And as the years go on, you know, it's,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you start, you start burying more and more people.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: And that's actually the way of, of this world, life
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: under the sun, as the preacher would say in Ecclesiastes,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and it, you can see how a person can become cynical.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I totally understand. I don't berate people who've had rough
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: lives and they've experienced loss and they're mad at God and,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and all that like I understand that. I think the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: tragedy is that people believe because they're mad at God,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: because they've experienced loss, that they're outside God's grace and love,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and I think the psalms invite us to bring.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Those tears to bring the pain, to bring the anger
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to God. He can handle it. God is big enough.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: His shoulders are big enough to handle our complaint, our
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: lament when the psalmist is crying out, Why, oh God,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: why am I drowning in my tears? You know, this is,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: why do you let this happen? Why do the wicked.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Prosper. Why do the righteous die young? Why, oh God, I,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think this is unholy language. I think this
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: is authentic language. It is holy. It is true. Again,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: whether we should feel that way or not, to some extent,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I can't control that. I feel how I feel. I'm responding,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: but give it to God. And I, I think in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: a way.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: You know, lament is a way of protesting the unrighteousness
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: of a fallen world. And so I think, you know, your,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: your language of why God or that I, I don't
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: think it's bad in a way.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I, I think it is appropriate.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And so I would just encourage you, and by the way, like,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you know, we're saying, trying to give it to God today,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and you're going to have to do that every day.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: It's never going to go away. It might change. You'll
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: have easier days, harder days. I just, I mean, honestly,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I wish there was one day, and you know, sometimes
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I hear stories of someone who said, Man, I just
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: really prayed and God just took this pain away from me,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I lost a loved one and all of
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a sudden I feel that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that's like personally, and to be honest,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I haven't really seen that, uh, almost ever. Most of
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: us were going to bear that, but I actually think,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you know, what's interesting is I was exploring this idea
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of anthropopathos. There was this Jewish scholar named Abraham Eschel,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called The Prophets, and he
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: actually said that the prophets, if you notice, if you
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: read Ezekiel, read Jeremiah, they weren't just given a message,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: they were given a burden.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: They were given a life. They were not only called
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to speak God's word, but to feel God's pain.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And you actually see that like Jeremiah is just so,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: he's like, I am so weary and burdened. I don't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: want to speak your word anymore. Jeremiah says that, you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like I don't, Jesus, I love you, but I don't
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: really know if I'm gonna follow you anymore. This is
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: too hard. This is too painful. And it's actually ironically,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: it's not just that God knows how we feel, it's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: through pain and suffering we understand how God feels all
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: day long. Jesus said, stretched out my arms to a.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Unrighteous people all day long. God raised Israel, taught Israel
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to walk, nursed Israel, raised them when they were in infancy,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and then Israel has rejected God, rebelled against God. So
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I think again we're, we're allowed to share in God's
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: own pain and understand what it costs God to love us. Yeah,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I think Heather, just to Mike's point there.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, I will write down and remember to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: pray for you, and I would just encourage you just
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: maybe to ask of God is, Lord, if you're going
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to allow this kind of suffering into my life, may
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: it be met with the fellowship of your suffering, right? Like,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: that's what Paul said, that the more he suffered, the
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: more he felt Christ near to him. And
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Um, he felt just a deeper intimacy, you know, kind
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of to Mike's point, right? The prophets actually felt the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: burden of God themselves, what God felt. And so, that
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: as you are entering into suffering, that Jesus would meet
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you in that suffering with a, a beautiful, deep, rich,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: intimate fellowship, um, in the season that you're going through
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and that your son's going through.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: If everyone watching and listening can keep Heather in your
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: prayers and um Char, would you pray for Heather right now?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Lord Jesus, Lord, only you can understand.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Or the pain that Heather, this mother feels. Um, Lord,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: we know that you know, and, uh, just even as
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: we said, Lord, because you know, we can call out
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Because you were the God, Lord, who, who made us,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: who made Lord this son who has given her just this.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: loving relationship with her child, this beautiful bond. Lord, you
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: know the pain.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: that this cancer is bringing into his life, into her life,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: or do you know all the fears?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Lord, you know the suffering. And so we are asking
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Jesus that in your grace, you would meet Heather, that
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you would meet her son in this suffering, Lord, with
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: just such a, a weighty sense.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Of your friendship, of your presence, of your power, of
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: your care over them, Lord, and Lord, would you give
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: them peace and rest even in the midst of this suffering, Lord.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: And we, God, we know that nothing is too hard
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: for you, Lord, and so we are just asking according
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: to your will, Lord, that you would bring healing and
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: wholeness and full recovery, Lord, from this cancer. We just
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: pray that in the name of Jesus. Amen.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Heather, thanks for calling us today here on Pastor's Perspective.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: 888-564-6173 is the number. We'll be here for about another
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: 30 more minutes. Call in, Joseph in Huntington Beach. You're next.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: What's your question for Char and Mike today?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: So, I have a brother that we kind of stopped
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: talking to because he's got on drugs, meth, and he's
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: kind of on the street, but also is accused of, uh,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: child molestation, never convicted. But, you know, but we all,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I knew in my heart that like something funny was
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: going on. So my family, we all caught him, cut
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: him off. Recently, it's been like 5 years, like 34,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: about 4 years, and we were really close. Recently, he
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: started reaching out and I started like walking with the
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Lord more and reading the Bible every day like I should.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And I, I noticed like, not only these verses, but
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: other verses kind of have a, kind of contradict each other.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of getting, trying to get a clarification
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: on it. And it's, uh, Matthew 18:15-17, and Matthew 5:39-48.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: 1 says, you know, turn the other cheek, forgive your brother,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: and there's other verses like, you know, how many times
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: should I forgive my brother, 7 times 70, and the
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: other scripture along all along, don't judge people, you know,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: forgiveness is everything, you know, have mercy.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And then there's also, you know, the ones that say
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: don't hang out with people who are unrepentful individuals, like,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you know, because they're like poison your crop type deal
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: and like, you know, like those people are on their
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: own journey basically and like don't let it, like, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's like Paul's right into the church and
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: one of them says like, don't sit down and dine
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: with them or something. I don't remember. I can't quote
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: it exactly. But, um, yeah, so my question is which,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: which side, what do I do? Do I ignore it
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: or do I, or, you know, go towards it for
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: mercy and forgiveness.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Mike, you want to start?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think forgiveness excludes consequences or or the reality
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: of it. So I think on the one hand, you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you are probably in the most safe position given the
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: details you shared to to approach and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think again, it's, you know, I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: think primarily as an ambassador of Christ, you know, wanting
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to see that he is walking with the Lord or
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: following the Lord or if he doesn't know the Lord
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: at all, to, you know, to be a voice, to
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: be salt and light in his life, but at the
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: same time that that doesn't mean there are no consequences. I,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I find
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: That's something that people, especially like you mentioned with the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: thing involving children, like, I mean, for me, that's going
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to mean boundaries, immediately, like, and it's not a lack
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: of forgiveness and I'm not going to let people put
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: false guilt on me. I'm like, oh well, you don't
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: truly forgive me because you're not allowing me access to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: this and that and the other. I'm like, no, sorry,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't, you know, like, hey, I, I don't harbor
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: any ill will towards you, but I'm also called not
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to be a fool. I'm not going to allow this
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to happen. And actually if you look at
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Look at God Himself, for example, uh, Moses miss misrepresents
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: God in the wilderness, right? Instead of speaking to the rock,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: he strikes the rock. Um, I would, would you say like,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think God forgives Moses in the ultimate sense,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: but there was a consequence that God stuck with the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: rest of his life, namely, he would never enter the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: promised land.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: That that that was a consequence. David, when he sinned
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: with Uriah and Bathsheba, profane God's name, you know, God
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: ultimately forgave him. He's still called a man after God's
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: own heart, and yet, um, David lost his child as
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: a result of that. And, and obviously David also reaped
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: what he sowed with his, his own son that that
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: came after him. So, again, I think you can.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: You can pursue forgiveness, and I think it's obviously easier
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: to do so in the context of simply your relationship
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to him, but again, as it involves family and all
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, I, I think there has to be.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Strict boundaries. I think strictly speaking too, I mean, the passage,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the differences between these passages, one is about vengeance and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: what we do with the wrongs that are done to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: us and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: We are not to retaliate as God's people, but we
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: are to hand these things over to God. And I
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: think Paul gives us better clarity on this. So I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: wouldn't read this, you know, section on the eye for
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: an eye without the rest of it, part about loving
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: your enemies. And I think Paul, he gives kind of
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: color to that in Romans chapter 12, right? That we
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: hand these things over to God, that we, uh, take
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: thought to do what is excellent, praiseworthy.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Uh, things that would, uh, I think, shock the world
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: in our gracious response to the way people sin against us. Um,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and then, of course, you know, Matthew 18 is much
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: more about how we would practically walk this out with
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: somebody who isn't listening, you know, to the sin that
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: they've done against us. But I totally agree, um, with Mike.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I just want to say, you know, I think sometimes
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: we actually don't believe, uh, that sin has such radical
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: ramifications to it. Like we don't want to believe it's that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Wicked and evil and deteriorating. And so we think, oh no,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I should be able to sin and be forgiven like
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: nothing ever happened. You can be forgiven by God, literally,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the slate wiped clean, but man, it can actually destroy
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: human relationship forever in a way that we will only
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: see redeemed and resurrected in the new heaven and the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: new earth. I think as humans, we don't like that.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Joseph, thanks for your phone call today on Pastor's Perspective.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Time to take a break. 888-564-6173 is our number. What
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: do you want to talk about? Call in.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back on Pastor's Perspective. Hi there, 888-564-6173
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: is the number to call. My name is Brian Perez.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'm here with Pastor Char Broderson. He's the lead pastor
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in Orange County. We've also
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: got Mike Chaddock. He's the senior pastor at Image Church.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: San Juan Capistrano, also in Orange County, 888-564-6173 is the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: number to call if you're watching on Facebook, YouTube or Instagram.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: You can call in too, we've got the number right
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: there on the bottom of your screen, and we've also
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: got a QR code there that you can use. That'll
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: take you to the pastor's perspective page at Kwave.com, where
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: you can submit your question online, and maybe we'll use
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: it at a later date, and we'll reach out back
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to you to let you know, hey, we read your
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: question on such and such date, so you can utilize that.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Robert in Fountain Valley, you are up next on Pastor's Perspective. Hello. Hello.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon. Good afternoon. What did you want to ask
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Char and Mike today? In Matthew 3, around 16 and 17,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: where John the Baptist is baptizing Jesus and then a
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: voice from heaven says, This is my Son whom I love.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I was curious, was there other people there to hear
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: that voice, or was it just
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: For John the Baptist, or what what was the situation?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: All right. Mike, you wanna start?
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually a great question. Um, and I, I
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people probably missed that and assume
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: everyone heard it. I think technically it doesn't explicitly say, uh,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: whether the crowds, for example, heard. Um, I will say
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I believe it uses the second person singular to say,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and when he saw. So, and there's debate on whether
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: that's saying, and John saw or Jesus himself is seeing
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: it happen.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: And interestingly, when John gives testimony in the Gospel of John,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: he actually doesn't say that he heard the voice. He said,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I saw the spirit descend and remain on him. So
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: he specifically speaks to what he saw. Now again, we
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: have to be careful where there's silence. Um, it doesn't
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: say he didn't hear, um, but obviously you would probably ask, well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, if he had heard, would he not
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: have said, um, that is, that's quite plausible.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, maybe the more impressive thing for John,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: or the particular point he wanted to make was that
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Jesus is the one upon whom the spirit descended and remained.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: He is the spirit baptizer because you remember John said earlier,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I baptize you with water, but one is coming after me,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose, and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: he will baptize you with the holy.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Spirit and fire. So it may be there's a, a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: theological reason that John specifically emphasizes what he saw, and
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: it is possible still, although, you know, I, I would
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: think he would have said it, but there is a
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: reason he might not have emphasized that in his gospel account. Chuck. Yeah,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: there's also interesting in the Gospel of John as well.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: There's another story where a voice from heaven speaks in
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: John chapter 12.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Um, Jesus is, you know, talking about, you know, the
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: hour that he is coming to, and he actually turns
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: this kind of speech in front of people to a prayer.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: And now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say, Father,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: save me from this hour. No, it was for this
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Then a voice came from heaven, I have glorified it
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and will glorify it again. The crowd that was there
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: and heard it said it had thundered. Others said an
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: angel had spoken to him.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And then Jesus says, this voice was for your benefit,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: not mine. And then he goes on to, you know,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: kind of back into his speech. So it's really interesting,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: and that we find this in a number of places, um,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: where a voice from heaven speaks, and it seems that
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: the recipient hears, but others are confused by it. They
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: recognize something has happened.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Uh, that there is some kind of communication happening between
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: heaven and earth, and there is a recipient, but kind
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: of those on the outside are confused about it. The
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: other story I'm thinking of is, uh, Saul on the
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: road to Damascus, right? Uh, and in the account in Acts,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you know, it's told 3 different times, you know, it's like, well,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: they only saw or they only heard, and, and other
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: times it's like they heard a voice, but they couldn't
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: discern what it said, right? These things. So,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: So we don't know, you know, kind of to Mike's point,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: but we do have other stories. And so it seems
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: to me that in these stories, um, the direct recipients,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: those who it is meant for, hear it. Of course,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I believe in the baptism, it's meant for Jesus. So
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: you are my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Interestingly though, in the transfiguration, the voice from heaven speaks again,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and this time,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: It does not speak to Jesus, but it speaks to Peter, James,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and John. This is my beloved Son in whom I
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: am well pleased.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Listen to him.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: So it's directed at Peter, James, and John, and Peter
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: tells us in one of his epistles, he was on
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the holy mountain and he heard the voice from heaven,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: and he, again, he quotes that, um,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Uh, those words of the Father directly. So, yeah, it
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: really is a, a really interesting question, and it's fascinating
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to compare and contrast the different stories of when God
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: speaks from heaven, who hears, who doesn't hear, who it's
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: meant for, who are the outsiders and these things. So, OK,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: so there was a crowd then. Yes, yes. Jesus is, uh,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: this is the part where he's entered, or, oh, I'm sorry.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the baptism. Yes, there was a crowd.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's probably why, again, we know it's specifically
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: meant for John. John is the forerunner. He's our
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Pretty he knows that the one coming because in a
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: sense he doesn't know he like he knows how he
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: will identify, but he actually doesn't know who it is yet.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: It's the one upon whom you see the spirit descend
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and remain. So John's ministry is all about looking for
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Jesus and again the parallels of, you know, our ministry
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: like like we're we're not the Messiah. Our ministry is
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: all about preparing the way, pointing.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: People to Jesus. And so the vision, like Char said
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: interestingly in a couple of the Gospels, the heavenly address
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: is you, you are my beloved son speaking directly to Jesus,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: but in the Matthew account it says, this is my
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: beloved Son, which sounds like it's meant for a second party,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: which would be John.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Got you. Second party. OK, well, thanks so much. Appreciate
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: your time. All right, Robert, thanks for calling in. Yeah,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: great question. We love it when you guys dig in
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: through your Bible, you dig in through the scriptures, and
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: you find things and you're like, wait, what does this mean?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Call in 888-564-6173. You can also send us your questions online.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: That is what Robert and Duarte did, not the same.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Robert we were just speaking to right now, but, uh,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Robert sent in two questions actually. First one is, in
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Luke 23:28-30, Jesus tells the daughters of Jerusalem to weep
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: for themselves and to weep for their children. What terrible
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: thing is going to happen to the daughters of Jerusalem
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: that will make them say to the mountains, Fall on us, Char?
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Hm, it's a great question.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I will honestly say, I have not thoroughly
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: studied the Gospel of Luke. I would be much more
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: familiar with the Gospel of John. I've taught that many times.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: The Gospel of Mark, I've taught that twice, uh, the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Gospel of Matthew, I've taught before. I've never taught through
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the Gospel of Luke. So, um, I know that Jesus'
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: warnings of judgment in the Gospel of Mark.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Uh, however, you know, at the end of his career,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: he's talking about the end time judgment on evil and
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: sin that is going to fall upon Jerusalem. But in
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Mark's Gospel, Jesus is the one that is actually, uh,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: that judgment of God is being concentrated on. And again,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's the picture that he is burying, um, the guilt
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: and the sin of his people in order to set
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: them free, right? Mark is all about God's great second
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: exodus being accomplished, uh, through Jesus Messiah.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, but here in Luke, it seems that Jesus, as
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: he's heading to the cross, speaking to the daughters of Jerusalem, uh,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: it seems to me to be more in line with
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: what Jesus says, um, when he comes to Jerusalem, and remember, uh,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: in the Gospels, it's recorded that he weeps over Jerusalem,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: and he talks about the, the day of their destruction, right? Like,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Um, that there's a destruction that's going to happen, a
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: judgment that's going to fall on Jerusalem, and that is
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: the thing that they actually like need to fear and
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: need to worry about. Um, and so,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I would think that this is what this references, uh, here,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and he talks about, you know, what is done. If
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: they did this, you know, when the, what does he say,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: when the wood is green, what will they do when
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the wood is dry, right? Like, uh, this is a,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: this is a moment of, um, you know, like a
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: palm branch being offered, like the true king is there
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: and they're rejecting him. What are they going to do
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: when that reject, you know, rejection is total and complete, uh,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: what the judgment of God will look like then. So.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Mike
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Anything to add? Yeah, I think.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: It's
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Probably, I think it would have been pretty clear to
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: an Israelite living in Jerusalem what I was talking about,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: it's the language of siege, because this is something that
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: actually happened to Jerusalem centuries before. It's recorded in lamentations
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: where people were being starved to death. Women were even
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: devouring their own children, resorting to cannibalism. It's this horrible language, and,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you know, the Jewish community still actually remembers like the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: horrors of, of the siege of Jerusalem to this day, um,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: as a
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Is a class project for seminary. We, we, I went
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: to a non-messianic synagogue and, and we just happened to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: be there on a day in which they were observing
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the siege of Jerusalem and they were lamenting and remembering, um,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: those who died, those who suffered, those who starved, and
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: all of that. And so Jesus is warning, he's like, hey,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: a siege is coming, and of course we know historically.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Um, that this did happen in 70 AD that Jerusalem
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was sieged yet again and horrendous atrocities occurred. And, and again,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you know, we hear about bad things in warfare today,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: but I mean there were no holds. There was no rules,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: no Geneva Convention there. I mean, who, who can, who
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: can be the most cruel wins. Like that's, that's how
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: it is. And you didn't just win to win a war, you,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: you went to make a point. So it was, you know, um.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Just absolutely horrible and, and one thing I that, you know, that's,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: this is a historical and sort of prophetic question. I
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: think that's important on its own merits, but I marvel
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: that Jesus is approaching his own death and, and he,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: and he says, don't weep for me. I'm worried about you,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and I just, I, I marvel, um, at that, at,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: at the heart of, of heart of our Lord, that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: even when he knows he's approaching his time, and it's
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: not like it's not on his mind.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Um, it's, it's on his mind, his entire ministry. You
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: see this in his first miracle at Cana when, when
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Mary comes to him and, you know, says, hey, can
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: you do something about the wine? And he's like, what
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: does this have to do with me? My hour has
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: not yet come in the hour. Always in the Gospel
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: of John refers to the hour of his suffering. And
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: so 3 years prior, Jesus is just this his.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Suffering, his cross, what he is going to do and
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: what it's going to cost him is on his mind.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: And yet even here as it's actually getting near, he's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: he's concerned about them, and you just see the heart
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: of God in that, by the way, and I just,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: for me, that's something that I've reflected on. Yeah, I think,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: you know, too, the, the gospel writers will often give
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: us hints like if they're not, you know, like directly
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: on the nose, like, what is Jesus talking about, you know,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: when he says like this weird phrase, you know.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Um, Matthew will give us a, a scripture reference for
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: those things, but Luke and Mark and John, they, they
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: hide it in a different kind of a way. It's cryptic.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting, you know, this phrase, say to the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: mountains fall on us actually comes from Hosea, specifically, Hosea 10, uh,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and it's about the day of the Lord. And it
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: also comes from Isaiah chapter 2, once again, about the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: day of the Lord, the day of God's judgment. And
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: so here it is, right, the judgment of God is
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: falling upon
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: His son
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: The sins of the world are being placed upon Jesus.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: And for all who by faith trust in Him, right?
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: There is refuge, there is forgiveness of sin. And yet
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: for those like who reject it, we see this again
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: fulfilled in the book of Revelation. We see the picture, right?
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: When Christ comes as judge, they will say,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Hide us from the face of the lamb. They've say
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: to the mountains and hills, fall on us, protect us
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: from that judgment. So this really has to do a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: warning about God's ultimate judgment on those who, um, do
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: not flee to Christ for forgiveness of sin and refuge.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Here's Robert's other question. He says, Sometimes I talk to
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: my friend's son, who is 12 years old. The boy
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: is a believer. I tell him that Jesus does not
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: approve of lying because the boy has fallen into a
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: patter of constant lying. What does the Bible teach about
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: how to parent youngsters who have chronic lying issues?
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Mike, what say you?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Um, well, I mean, I practically, I would start by
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: talking to your friend, since it's his son, and just
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: kind of talk to him about it. I mean, who knows,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I think, um, and again, not, not to say this
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: is the case here, I'm answering this just very generally
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: for people, but I think sometimes
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: We want context for everyone and by the way, this
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: includes children, um, and I think you can see behavior
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: in children, um, for example, there's children that that'll act out,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you know, and they're the class clown and.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And all this kind of stuff and you're just like, oh,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: this bad kid, he, he doesn't just get in line
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: and all that, but then you don't understand like some
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: of that is coming from difficulties that they're experiencing in life.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Their parents are going through divorce or, you know, they
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: have an illness or or whatever it might be. So
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, first of all, begin by talking
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to your friend since it's his son and he will
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: have
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Much better context. And again, this, this doesn't do away
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: with the fact that lying is a sin, of course
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: it is, but I understand that fundamentally we're all sinners
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and that's the, that's the ultimate source of the problem
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: and the particular sins that people commit vary actually. There,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: there's some people that, no, man, they told the truth,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: but then they do bad.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Things, uh, in a different area of life. So I
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: kind of want to know what's going on there. It's
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: possible maybe the, the friend is not aware of that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: And so I think just getting some insight into that,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and again, I'd say primarily this is a parental issue.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So I, I'm not sure how and to what extent unless,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: you know, that there's some other context I'm not aware of, but.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: And I think just as a parent, of course, I
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: want to teach the principle that lying is wrong. And
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: by the way, don't just teach that lying is wrong.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, definitely as they get older, and
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: they don't have to get too old where you can
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: start explaining this, the worst thing about lying is it
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: harms relationships. That's actually what's bad about it. Relationships are
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: based on trust and lying destroys trust.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: So the worst thing about it, it's not that, oh,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: you just technically lied, Oh, it's a law and you
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: broke it. Well, why is it a law? I don't know.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: They just decided, no, you should be able to explain
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: why lying is bad. Lying destroys trust. Trust is the
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: currency of relationships. We have to have trust. And so
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: like whatever it is you've done, it is better for you,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: for the sake of our relationship, to tell me the truth.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: That's what I tell my kids, at least I try
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: to teach them that. Then, especially as, as they're younger,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: there should be consequences for their actions, because again, they
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: might believe that, oh, hey, if I lie, nothing happens. Well,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: out in the real world, you know, you, you lie
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: on an exam, you cheat, you lie in a job interview,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: you lie about your background or whatever it is. Well,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: that comes up later. So we want to teach kids
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: when they're young.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: That lying does have consequences. And again, whatever consequences would
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: be appropriate for each child, that's obviously up to parents
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: to decide. But I think just letting them know lying
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: is not a harmless little thing, even if a particular
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: lie is about the cookies in the jar. For me,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: it's not about the reference of the lie. It's about
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: the fact that lying fundamentally destroys trust.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. Just in terms of, you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: you need a partner with this parent, right? Like it's
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: not up to you to fix their kids lying. Like,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that's their sole job is as their parent is to,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you know, um, train them in godly character and these things.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: So that's the work that they're doing and you're just
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: coming along to, to partner with them and you don't
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: want to get in the way of that, and contradict that. So, yeah,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: it's really important to have a conversation with your friend
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, just in this situation, I
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: would say too, just to get at the heart of
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: what's going on, like why do we lie, right? Like, what's,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: what are we after that we think, you know, lying
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: will actually get us rather than telling the truth, you know.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And I think many times like we lie because we have,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: you know, false ideas about God. We, we have lied
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: because um we think that people have certain expectations of
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: us when they don't. And I, it's really interesting to me,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes just to get kind of under the hood.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: And realize the motivation for why we hide and why
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: we lie. And I think if we can bring, um,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: support and trust to those areas, man, then, then that
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: really like builds a context where a child doesn't feel
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: the need to lie. They feel safe. They feel like
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: they understand, oh, this person actually does want what's good
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: for me. And I think going back to what you're
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: saying about, you know, Mike, just like a framework for children, like,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: To know that God is trustworthy. Like, if God is trustworthy, um,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: then I don't have to lie. But if God knows
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: everything and he's the judge of everything, oh my gosh,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't I lie? I would want to hide everything
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: from this person that knows everything. He's the judge of all,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: but the fact that God is trustworthy, that he is gracious, compassionate,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: slow to anger, he forgives sin, he takes away our burdens,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: he blesses us with everything that is good. And so
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I think
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I would just say, man, what we want
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: this kid to know first and foremost is the character
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: of God, uh, the character of God revealed in Jesus.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes, uh, Charles Spurgeon said this, he says,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes we try to, um, teach children to
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: love God without first trusting God.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Right. And so I think in a way like we're
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: kind of identifying that this is maybe the wrong place
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: to start, you know, like, let's start by showing and
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: revealing a God that is trustworthy and actually worth loving.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: And then once we do that, man, the lying will
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: go away, right? And so I would say that the,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the aim for you parents, if you're listening, right,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: is to show how trustworthy and good God is, and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: how he is worthy of love.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Robert, thanks for sending in those two questions. Oh, go ahead, Mike.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on that, you know, like, I,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I'll say sometimes, you know, when we, we do communion and,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: you know, communion is multifaceted. It's remembering what Christ did
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: in the past. There's a past element. There's also the
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: present element of engaging with Christ now, receiving His grace,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: confessing our sins, then there's the future, you know, do
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: the drink of this cup until he comes.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: But I think one thing too, we, we tell people
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: in the confession part is remember there's no safer person
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: to confess to than God because God actually already knows
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: what you're actually doing is perhaps in some areas for
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: the first time you're becoming honest with yourself. Think about
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: when God, after Adam and Eve sinned, and he said,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Where are you?
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: For whose benefit was he asking that question? It was
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: not so that God would gain knowledge, so God would
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: figure out where they are, which tree it was they
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: were high. He knows exactly where they are. The real question,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the subtext is, Adam, do you know where you are?
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: You know how far you've gone. And so I think
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: on it, that's, and sometimes we're not, you know, like
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Charlie were saying, I think, why do people lie and
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: oh gosh, if I, if I told the truth, then
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: this might happen or they might not accept me or
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: love me or whatever. But again, I think if we
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: know that God, God knows, and I'm actually, because you
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: can deceive yourself. This is the crazy thing about lying, right?
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And we'll say.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Not everyone is a pathological liar, but there's people where
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: they literally can lie so much, they believe themselves. It's
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: a scary, scary thing. And I, I think that's something
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: where for some people, the only way they'll ever come
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: honest is when they confess first to God, recognizing he
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: ultimately knows everything. The little game you play, uh, about
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: a posturing, maneuvering life as a chessboard. Well, the truth,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: if it gets me here, I'll say it. If it doesn't,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I won't.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: That there is no game with God. Game over. He
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: knows exactly what the truth is and so confess to him.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: And I think when you confess and you start having
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: an authentic real relationship with the God who knows you,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: who hates sin, and yet absolutely loves you as his
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: own child in Christ.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: You can start to, you can trust God. Like Char said,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: I trust God with the truth of who I am,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: what I've done, what I haven't done, whatever it is,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: and then that may be the freeing thing that enables
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you to be true and trustworthy with others.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Angelica and San Marco, see you next on Pastor's Perspective.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: How can we help you?
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Hi, yes, I'm calling because I've, my husband and I
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: have been going through like a long infertility journey. Um,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I recently found out I have endometriosis, um, which seems
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: to be contributing, um, but I've been struggling a lot
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: lately with why God allows people to go through infertility
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and like what purpose it serves, and I feel kind
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: of just angry at God. Yeah, mm, Char.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm very, very sorry for you, Angelica,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: and just for you and your husband's just grief, and I,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I imagine this journey has been incredibly painful and
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Um,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I know for friends who have walked through this as
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: well that my wife and I walk with, you know,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: it's many times you experience this grief, right? It's like
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: each time you try to get pregnant and then, you know,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: kind of receive the news that you're not able, it
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: just feels like you're kind of reliving the grief all
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: over again. And so I'm so sorry. And you know,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier, but I think
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: We, we have to realize, um, that we live in
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: a world where God's will is not currently being done
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: on earth as it is in heaven, and this is
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: why we pray to that end. Um, and so that
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: there are many things that happen in this life that
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: are
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Way outside of God's will. It's not God's will that
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: people would die. It's not God's will that people would
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: have cancer. This is not the world that God created,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: and scripture makes that very clear. Uh, we live in
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: a world that is broken because of sin and, um,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: human rebellion, and, and we're living in the consequences of
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: that world. And yet God has mercy on that world. Um,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: God has compassion.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Um, on that world. And the he has compassion on
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: the consequences of the sins of humanity and, you know,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: just our pain and our suffering. We have so many
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: references in Scripture where God hears the cries of His people.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: He hears their suffering, and this is the ultimate story
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: of Scripture. He has come down to save us, right?
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: That's what we're told about God's people that were suffering
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: in slavery and exodus. And this is what we know
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: about what God has done through Jesus Christ. He has
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: come down.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: To save us and rescue us, and he is um.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Through Jesus, he's bringing about a whole new creation where
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: there will be no more pain and no more death,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: no more tears, there will be no more infertility, but
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: there will be life and life abundantly. And so, we
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: know that that's the story of scripture, and yet here
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: we sit in this. And so, Angelica, we're gonna pray
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: that just in your suffering, God will meet you in
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: a way that is just so personal and powerful, and
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: he will bring you peace, He will bring you comfort,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: bring you hope.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: And that he will show you the ways that he
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: is working in your life and the ways that his
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: will is being accomplished in your life. So, uh, Angelica,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: the Lord be with you. Yes, everybody watching and listening,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: if you can please keep Angelica and her husband in
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: your prayers. We've run out of time on today's episode
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: of Pastor's Perspective. Thanks.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: To everyone who called in, if you, uh, call, if
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: you're on hold right now and, uh, we couldn't get
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: to your call, here's a fast pass, you can use
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: it tomorrow and, uh, we'll try to put you on
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: as close to the beginning of the show as possible
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: or as close as you call in. For Char Broderson
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: and Mike Shattuck, I'm Brian Perez. God bless. Thanks for
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: watching and listening to Pastor's Perspective.