Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of Evil of the Daleks (4/7)

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Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of Evil of the Daleks (4/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:42
if the Doctor Who commentary podcast, I am back with the
0:48
resplendent, Jason Thompson, we're both knackers after long
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days at work, but we promised to give you exciting and in Falling
0:57
material that we Jason Yes, absolutely.
1:07
He's fallen asleep, already. Yes!
1:09
Indeed. Well, we're seeing that kind of
1:12
day but he's a Daleks. Give me something to stay up
1:15
for. Yes.
1:16
Well, there you go. There.
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You just drop that way. It's talk about either the
1:18
Daleks, we're going in to episode 4, and I'm going to
1:24
smack you around the face with a question, straight away.
1:28
Go for it. Hey, slap.
1:31
Okay, so a lot of this episode, A lot of it is without dialogue
1:38
and it is protracted. Either action sequences, or
1:42
suspense sequences. Yeah, that's true.
1:45
Yes. So is this the closest like a
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whole episode of Doctor Who's come to, like, like being a
1:51
movie where the visuals are far more important than what, almost
1:57
the storytelling. Because I think the story
1:58
Paul's, it's quite a bit here as well.
2:02
I think it comes close, I think Deadly Assassin, three is a
2:06
close Contender. Although yeah, that possibly
2:11
even better or worse. Depending on your point of view
2:15
in that the plot of Deadly Assassin.
2:17
Absolutely completely stops the part 3, at the end of it, they
2:21
haven't advanced The bit, you know what, the real protagonists
2:28
in this, spend the entire episode of sitting or lying
2:30
down. Yes, indeed.
2:35
Spandrel doesn't even get up to shoot that God, that the master
2:38
sent in to kill the doctor. The doctor is lying down for the
2:41
entire episode and so is golf. Yep.
2:45
And you know, sat next to the doctor watching him.
2:47
The master is sat next to a golf watching him.
2:50
The only person who actually stands up is that shat
2:52
what's-his-name's Solace that the Aster sends to send to kill
2:55
the doctor and then he gets shot.
2:57
So well I believe is Ibrahim na Min from it is yes.
3:03
Same time after. Yeah, yeah, I know what my
3:07
parents more than I do. Now, we've got off track
3:09
already. But anyway, yes, this one this
3:11
episode actually leads me also into one of our Twitter comments
3:18
that I requested before we started at the beginning.
3:20
Hmm, and sigh heart, all calls this episode Padding.
3:24
Because he asked how much of this story is padding and he's
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thinking particular episode 4, I think, episode 4 is less padding
3:32
than episode 1. Because as I think we discussed
3:35
at the Time, episode 1 is almost entirely Superfluous to the
3:38
actual plot. Whereas episode 4 is the Crux of
3:42
the matter which is Jamie's test to find the human factor.
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So although it's a lot of action, a lot of suspense and
3:49
not a lot of dialogue. It is actually still important
3:52
to the plot of the story and those those long sequences are
3:57
punctuated with seen shot on film of troughton.
4:03
Meaning the purpose of those long sequences.
4:06
So they're kind of we're given a reason as to why those sequences
4:10
are all taking place. Yes.
4:13
Yeah. Patrick, troughton took a
4:14
holiday for this one and just appears on film sitting at the
4:16
computer Bank talking about various elements of the human
4:19
factor and, you know, I'm going to press play in a second but I
4:23
actually think this is one of those episodes as well.
4:26
That is a bit miserable on audio because there's so little
4:30
dialogue and it's just a lot of music.
4:32
And and if you're going to listen, The soundtrack is just a
4:35
lot of instructions about what's going on.
4:37
Whereas, as an animation they've got a lot to play with.
4:42
Yes. Absolutely.
4:44
Don't think they quite got it right in some places and will
4:46
come to that. But one moment in particular
4:50
stuck out for me when I was watching it at the BFI but we'll
4:53
get there. Well, I just remember you
4:54
absolutely appalled, at the end of the last episode as camo
4:58
approach Jamie with his arms, outstretched in a very
5:01
villainous way. Yeah.
5:03
Yes, I think that was over. Egging the pudding.
5:05
Some was well, that's where we left off.
5:08
So, we pick up. I think we should definitely
5:11
okay, as in then. Okay, in five.
5:15
Four, three, two, one, go. it has a sort of like a bit of
5:25
other opinion, even even other than the Twitter opinions that
5:28
we've had, I went on slowly Doctor Who ratings guide to have
5:32
a look and see. What if there was anybody out
5:34
there that would give evil of the Daleks like a bad review?
5:38
Hmm. Arkham really fond Soul.
5:40
There was there was maybe one who was being a contrarian
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saying, alright it's fairly average.
5:48
I don't think it could be called a bad storm.
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I think the more I watched it, the more I look at it, the more
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you think about it and doing something like this, you're
5:59
making me think about it Joe. So this is your fault one, the
6:04
plot doesn't stand up too much in the way of scrutiny.
6:08
It's not well plotted by any stretch of the imagination but
6:12
it has so many good. Character moments, it has so
6:16
many set pieces in it that make it really good but the plot
6:21
makes not a jot of sense. Well, okay, well then I've got a
6:27
question for you about the plot as I've been thinking about it.
6:30
I work hard very boring job so my mind wanders, a bit.
6:33
So you know, if I'm doing a story that evening and suddenly
6:36
I'll start thinking about plotting consistencies and
6:38
things like this and if the Daleks cannot identify the human
6:45
factor. Yeah.
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Oh, this is something with all their technology, their very
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much. They've got time travel and all
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sorts. They're pretty smart cookies.
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If they cannot Identify the human factor.
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How do they know the doctor can? Well.
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I suspect that they've got an idea that he's you know, clever
7:07
than they are. and, Yeah again, probably one of those things
7:15
that doesn't make a great deal of sense because it turns out
7:18
they don't want the human factor.
7:22
In which case, why do they even let him put it into any of the
7:24
Daleks at all, but we'll come to that.
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Now, I've just seen the bit that made me a little bit, unsure in
7:31
the animation where they've animated the bit, where camels
7:33
ended up on the roof and in, from the guttering.
7:35
Oh yeah, yeah. And in the animation, I think
7:38
quite a few people laughed about it, he runs into the room and
7:42
through a door that opens out onto a sloping roof and I'd
7:46
always envisaged and open to correction.
7:51
In, if the episode turns up, I could be wrong.
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But I'd always envisioned. It is him flying through a
7:55
window, not a door because there's no reason for a door to
7:58
open out on a roof. Like the Hat, what was the Telly
8:00
snap show us? Have you studied there really
8:02
wasn't? That's the problem, it doesn't
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and we see him hanging off the guttering.
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We see a close-up of his hands on the gutter but we don't see
8:08
what he actually went through, but I'm pretty certain.
8:11
It would have been a door or window rather than a door.
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So this is just sort of dramatic license that they're taking.
8:18
Yeah, I would say. So which we've discussed before
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and fair enough, I think. Yeah, to a point.
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Absolutely. There you go.
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Jamie's just been saved from The Swinging acts.
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This again, is one of those things that makes you wonder if
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Jamie's supposed to be being tested for the human factor.
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Why is the house absolutely riddled with traps?
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That will kill you. I want to know what maximal gets
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up to his spare time that he's got all those portcullises that
8:48
come down and cut your head off and since all that going on.
8:51
Well yeah, there is that as well.
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What does this guy done to his house?
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The only thing I can tell you is that certainly is Happening in
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my house. You know.
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No, no, there's no, there's no lethal traps in my house as far
9:03
as I know. But I'll tell you one thing that
9:05
really stood out in this was the music Dudley Simpsons music.
9:10
In this episode, it's doing a lot of the work.
9:13
Oh, the music is absolutely stunning and I think it might
9:19
have been sigh heart. I can't remember our to dig up
9:21
the Twitter thread again, which I forgot to do before we started
9:24
this episode. So I'll do it.
9:28
The next one is this the first W Simpson school that really flies
9:32
and I think it probably is. But what did you do before this
9:36
Off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you but I know he
9:39
definitely did plan it a Giants and he definitely did the chase.
9:45
Yeah, and those are fine but the chase is very jaunty.
9:52
Yeah, memorable. But I think this one is the
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first one that really gets the mood and the atmosphere in and
10:01
has sort of very that thought, banished out of my head halfway
10:07
through that move on quick because I think this is a old
10:11
man. Now Jason, you're going to have
10:16
to do me a favor, am I? Yes.
10:19
Because this is the city moment while tell you that my episode
10:22
didn't start. So I need to know where you're
10:24
at now so I can catch up with you water, filled and Max
10:29
havelaar, removing Toby's body from the laboratory.
10:33
And water-filled is having a bit of a breakdown about his, his
10:37
part in this, where people are dumb, I even I think I've done
10:41
pretty well without the pictures.
10:42
All right. I think you have.
10:44
Yeah, it's time to time stamp please sir.
10:49
I can give you a time stamp. Let's have a look now at 40
10:58
seconds now. Okay.
11:01
Okay, I'm back in the game, baby.
11:11
Okay. Yeah.
11:16
So this is where Max double pulls a gun out of a drawer.
11:18
Again. This, I worry about this guy.
11:23
What? Well, I mean, clearly is not the
11:25
full ticket is emacs table. No, but this is the point where
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we start to realize, he's actually a bit.
11:32
Even worse than that, really? That's like Edward walls, filled
11:36
like a total sap. Oh, Waterfield is a total sap.
11:40
Absolutely. Absolutely is but now we get
11:44
camel and Jamie making friends. That's rather nice.
11:49
And you know, in terms of, you know, don't think this is the
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best period of Doctor Who for a racial representation.
11:58
No. We did touch on this very gently
12:00
earlier, in the story, But having the two characters
12:07
working together, that that's quite a nice.
12:09
You know, that's certainly better treatment than toad mango
12:12
in Tomb of the Cybermen. No, very much.
12:15
So yeah. And I actually rather like the
12:17
friendship that develops between Jamie and camel.
12:22
It's quite, it's quite believable.
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They've met under strange circumstances.
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And now they've saved each other's lives.
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And there we go. They now have a mutual interest
12:31
in rescuing Victoria. You know in those things between
12:36
Matt Stovall and Edward walls filled.
12:39
Why is there a Dalek and the Machine in the background?
12:46
No idea. Okay, wasn't paying that much
12:50
attention to be honest, I really do like the attention to detail
12:57
on Campbell and actually from the pictures that are available
13:05
to discuss this earlier. It's very easy on the eyes.
13:09
Well in fact this is a good episode for me.
13:11
All right? So it would seem James H on
13:15
Twitter, Asks, should camel have had nipples in the animation?
13:20
Yeah. A little more attention to
13:21
detail. Might have been quite nice.
13:23
Yes. Well, you know, you can't please
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all the people I Remember bizarrely.
13:31
Somebody complaining that they had an animated Victoria with
13:33
enough cleavage, really? Yeah, that was establishing its
13:40
people focus on their. Yeah, the details are people get
13:43
obsessed about it is and it isn't at the same time, you
13:48
know, these film sequences of Patrick troughton.
13:51
Yes Walker's is it just go off to England for an afternoon and
13:55
knock him out and then he goes away on holiday.
13:58
Yeah. Basically all the pre-filming
14:00
for the stories is done ahead of time.
14:04
So yeah, they'll quite often do the filming sometimes weeks
14:08
before the actual Studio starts working.
14:11
So, I think that these ones, the film inserts for this were
14:15
recorded during the faceless ones.
14:19
Okay. Certainly I think the location
14:22
the location stop was but yeah, these film sequences will be
14:26
recorded So having it the the pre-filming of Doctor Who is why
14:30
you have these wonderful anecdotes.
14:31
Like the fact that adriene Hill filmed her death sequence before
14:35
she filmed her, first appearance in the actual show
14:37
chronologically speaking but it's a dangerous business, isn't
14:40
it doing the film world for I mean doing anything first
14:43
because if something happens to a member of the cast, Then
14:48
decides You know, worst-case scenario, somebody dies, then
14:52
you've got a real film or rewrite, you know what I mean?
14:56
Like, like in Dad's Army, when the fellas name, the, the games
15:00
begin? Yeah.
15:02
And he filmed didn't, he all? They did all the all the filming
15:05
for that whole season. Yes, he's, he appears in on film
15:10
in one episode, but not in any of the studio sequences because
15:13
he, you know, what do you film this stuff and then he got taken
15:16
ill. Yeah.
15:19
Well, I think now because the nature of television has changed
15:21
so much that everything is recorded technically on film.
15:25
Now, is there on location apart from a few rare things that they
15:30
do in a studio? And so I don't really think that
15:33
problem really exists anymore. I don't think it exists in the
15:38
same way because the whole method of Television production
15:41
has changed to the point where they film scenes.
15:45
Not time, rather than because at this point, I think they were
15:48
still recording, more or less in order.
15:51
So, they go through and record as much as possible in sequence
15:57
as far as I'm aware. I think it that changed in death
16:01
to the Daleks that now, I mean, I was the first time they shook
16:04
it up and did it in set sequence rather than in story sequence.
16:09
So, they were Phil and John Pertwee was thrown because he's
16:13
so cute. To doing things in order.
16:16
Yeah, I'm not sure. I have a feeling, there are a
16:18
few examples of a bit earlier than that, but I think that's
16:21
when it became the norm, but I'd have to look that up.
16:24
I don't so don't quote me on that.
16:26
Anyone who's listening, who knows that?
16:27
We're wrong, don't worry. But now I know, I only know that
16:31
because there is there always Studio footage of Pertwee in the
16:37
studio bemoaning. The fact that that's not the way
16:40
they normally shoot it and then on the documentary, Markley
16:42
Bryant says, no, I shook it up. I wanted to make a cheaper.
16:45
I want us to do it. Both are and that we can't
16:48
remember any of his lines because he's doing it all out of
16:50
order. And apparently, it was pretty
16:52
shaky. Start off with with his lines.
16:55
Well, he's famously said repeatedly that when he worked
16:59
with Patrick troughton on the three doctors, it took a while
17:02
to get into sink because hurt, we learned his lines and needs
17:05
the queue because that's what he was used to.
17:08
How he's used to working whereas trout and kind of improvised
17:11
around the dialogue that was on the page and gave you the gist
17:13
of it so it took them a while to actually gel.
17:16
But once they did, they worked very well together.
17:18
But yeah, I wonder if trou and started out that way or if he
17:23
just got comfortable and stylish, Side.
17:25
You know, I kind of imagine your fertile power of the Daleks just
17:30
sort of doing these things on the Fly and go giving a rough
17:33
estimation of the dialog. Well, I think it all depends on
17:37
your definition of rough estimation as I think, if
17:40
Pertwee needed the exact Q. Then even the slight word here
17:43
or there being different would have thrown in I'll Joy all this
17:48
about camel being absolutely obsessed with Victoria.
17:52
He's got that little flowers, only the yeah, it's It's kind of
18:01
classic isn't it? You know got to save the pretty
18:03
girl. I don't know if it's true in the
18:06
live-action one but she sort of up on the bell tower like the
18:09
princess in the tower, isn't she?
18:10
She's Jump on a balcony. Like you interested?
18:15
Yes, it's there's a gallery. Landing that.
18:17
She's standing on. Pete Lambert on Twitter asks,
18:19
how did they imprison Victoria upstairs?
18:24
Because I hovered. That's why we just didn't see
18:26
it. So next can go upstairs.
18:28
They've always been able to go upstairs, laughs don't see it
18:32
that often. Let's all go not even are real
18:34
Pete. Yeah, it's marked bloody good
18:38
thing. We had come and see Toby this
18:39
weekend. The right we slap you around
18:41
your ears. Have you have you studied the
18:46
Telly snaps at all for this story?
18:48
Because I'm telling you the film sequences of the Daleks going
18:51
around the house, they've captured it really well in the
18:54
emanate, in a animation here, you're amazing.
18:58
They do the Telly snaps, do look great.
19:01
I did, I did look at them before we started, although I didn't
19:03
refresh my memory before we did these episodes.
19:06
But yes, I have seen the, I remember being very excited when
19:09
they were first. Published in Doctor Who magazine
19:11
way, back in the 90s. Was it Mike I'm mad was it the
19:17
Telly snaps and then the archive in the middle and then the Telly
19:20
snaps. Again it was like that wasn't in
19:21
the middle of the magazine. Evil of the Daleks think was
19:27
covered in an archive in a, in a special somewhere by car.
19:31
Remember. But yes, certainly, there was a
19:34
Yeah, the archive feature in the middle was a pullout and keep
19:37
which I used to do and then I realized I was ruining my
19:41
magazine so I stopped doing it. It's so it's such an incongruous
19:45
thing, a Dalek sliding around, like a Victorian house.
19:49
Every time they do that with the Darlings, how long will you be
19:52
in a setting? Where they don't belong?
19:54
It just works beautifully. It does.
19:57
It really does look good. Oh, and he is Molly being
20:00
dragged in by Arthur Terrell. She's treated terribly is she I
20:05
feel so sorry for her when she just burst into tears.
20:10
Oh well I think doesn't believe come along and saw him out.
20:13
Yes. Yes, she does.
20:18
Yeah, the whole after Terrell's I mean this is when so I was
20:22
asking about padding, it offered terrible, he's padding he
20:26
thought he's he's pretty much padding.
20:28
We never find out exactly why the Daleks put a controlled of
20:31
all eyes on him. But she could control him.
20:36
Why they didn't bother controlling anyone else or what?
20:38
So then she'll know. I think if you sat and look at
20:42
any Doctor Who story that is longer than four episodes.
20:45
Yeah, I bet you anything you could find two episodes where
20:48
for padding in any story. I don't know, there is certainly
20:55
a lot of padding in. I mean I don't think it's
20:57
necessarily the case. In there has to be longer than
21:00
four episodes. There's definitely some padding
21:02
in some for partners that I can think of like dr.
21:06
Tyler's pointless escape attempt in the three doctors.
21:10
Oh yeah. And Joe with the doctor
21:12
basically just standing in a corridor chatting because the
21:14
plot isn't ready for them to me, omega just yet.
21:17
So they just stand there, chatting for a bit dr.
21:19
Tyler runs around in a circle ends up back where Started.
21:21
And even says that was a bit of a waste of time, wasn't it?
21:24
We're looking at it going? Yes.
21:26
Yes it was you remember the doctor doing that?
21:29
My use on the wall in death to the Daleks?
21:32
Yeah some people might call that Patty what you're that going?
21:37
Yeah, I know. But you know, like, what we've
21:39
got to remember is is they really weren't thinking of these
21:42
things, as whole stories, where they were putting out an
21:45
episode, a week, you know, and what you are supposed to focus
21:49
on was that 25 minutes. Absolutely.
21:52
That's why I always say to people who complain that the
21:55
stories are too long and boring. So just break them up, watch
21:58
them in episode at a time. You were never supposed to sit
22:00
down and watch three hours of the evil of the Daleks, and sort
22:05
of on those terms. We don't know that that off
22:08
Terrell stuff. Ain't going nowhere for 25
22:10
minutes. He's a bastard.
22:12
You know. And he's been a horrible to
22:13
Molly and he's effectively a villain.
22:15
Yeah, absolutely. No, a Dalek is just shoved Max
22:19
table to the floor. I do love the fact that A bit
22:22
physical. He's a vicious honey that yeah
22:27
what you know I think David Whittaker is convinced you know
22:30
the Daleks are not going to say the c word so I'm going to say
22:33
bastards, he's convinced a complete bastards well they are
22:36
complete bastards, absolutely. but yeah, it's I don't have, you
22:45
noticed, Jason but those bubbling Vats are still going on
22:48
Beyond them there. I do worry about his tab, it's
22:51
it up. After that experiments began on
22:53
a long time. Bubbling liquids in random
22:56
glassware and is just shorthand for laboratory, isn't it?
23:00
Yeah, which makes no sense whatsoever.
23:03
But it's far from the only thing in this story that makes no
23:05
sense. I think there's some Poors, you
23:07
know, stagehands job there to make sure that still going
23:11
nicely. That's all the action is Okay,
23:14
what happens? We've Ruth, I can't.
23:16
Remember at all. What happens through taxable.
23:18
Oh, she Molly and Arthur Terrell disappear.
23:21
In the next episode. After Downton Abbey quite
23:25
possibly, it downstairs. Quite possibly.
23:28
Oh, now we get matched up with explaining why he's helping the
23:30
Daleks because they promised him the secret of metal into gold.
23:35
I do quite a minute, I think it's fairly short e motive but I
23:39
do love the fact he's utterly obsessed with Wells.
23:43
That is willing to go to all these lives is something that
23:45
trips up a lot of dogs who violence, isn't it, money?
23:48
I always certainly does. Absolutely.
23:51
But yeah, the ability to transform metal into gold.
23:55
That would be well, it would be a hell of a breakthrough
24:01
breakthrough now. Yes it would yes.
24:05
Turning one element into another.
24:06
Yes, that's quite But for the, if he has kidnapped his friend's
24:13
daughter, he has invited in these terrible.
24:16
You know, machine creatures. He is effectively set.
24:22
The doctors friend of, you know, in like a murderous trap.
24:26
I mean, he found some extreme things in order to discover this
24:29
secret. Yes, he certainly has.
24:34
Oh yeah, the Daleks look so good in that house.
24:36
And I, and I think the shot is exactly like that, from a bar.
24:40
Yeah I think yeah I remember at Ellie's not like that.
24:43
Are you sure? You know how signed an actual
24:45
house? Yeah they are.
24:47
Which is why there was that special Dalek a cup of his own
24:50
to go which had a narrow skirt section so that it could get
24:52
through the doors. See this so badly.
24:57
I would love to see this but I'm also a bit nervous about seeing
25:02
one of the episodes. Have you have you seen the
25:07
picture that's on Twitter today of that fellow's, collection of
25:11
cans? Yes, where they don't eat said,
25:15
none of it was catalogued, we don't know what on these cans
25:19
are very that to talk to her that's like catnip to talk to.
25:22
Who is? Yeah.
25:25
Everyone's going, oh my god. There must be some Doctor Who in
25:27
there as if Doctor Who isn't really just a drop in the ocean
25:30
of all the You look beautiful that was on film but he did have
25:33
two dogs. Who episodes didn't he?
25:36
He did. Yes.
25:37
So the possibility is there, so the possibility is there?
25:41
That's enough. Jason, I thought it would be
25:44
interesting if anything else came up because it has been 10
25:48
years, I think, since the last one wasn't.
25:49
Because it was just before the 50th that we got web of fear, an
25:52
enemy of the world back. So strange.
25:55
Now let's talk with the celestial toymaker in the 60th.
25:59
I'm wondering. Can you hear that?
26:01
I can hear the keyboards being battered by people on that
26:04
missing episodes. Mega thread on Gallifrey base.
26:07
All the theorists are out now and then Yeah, it'll be good to
26:14
get something back but you know the longer it goes, the less
26:16
chance there is but you never know.
26:18
Why is he going up that ramp? Can't make out the stairs.
26:23
Apparently not Gallery, Landing but not there's no staircase
26:27
associated. With this one, the stairs must
26:29
be around the other side of the house.
26:30
I'll tell you, if a wire some more Dynamic sequence, this way,
26:34
it certainly is, But it's all right.
26:38
He's up there safe. Now they can knock on the door
26:41
and ask to be let in so so far. Jamie is this like what courage
26:47
and forgiveness and friendship. And Instinct and instincts.
26:53
Yeah. Okay.
26:56
I think those are the reasons, you know that we defeat the
26:58
Daleks probably not. No.
27:01
Oh no, don't like appearing behind them.
27:03
What are some very odd color? Is that how it plays out in the
27:05
episode? Yep.
27:07
And I remember that one from the the audio, cassette with Tom
27:10
Baker's narration, when he says, in his in his wonderful voice he
27:14
said below them, a Dalek appeared behind them, the door
27:18
opened. It was another dollar.
27:22
Something that I didn't Tom Baker's voice.
27:24
Yeah, I'm absolutely amazing. It's a very different set of
27:29
narration from his power of the Daleks narration because this
27:31
the evil one was written. In the third person, he give a
27:33
much more subdued reading orbit and this is a very different
27:38
episode to the previous free that we did.
27:41
In fact, there's not another episode of evil at all.
27:43
It's quite like this one. No, if I think every episode
27:47
from here on goes on with different directions, it's quite
27:49
a yeah. Quite an odd little story.
27:52
You know, you know, when there's all those soil, we talked about
27:55
this in diets master plan of like Dennis Spooner and Terry
27:58
Nation trying to outdo each other, right?
27:59
I'm gonna box you into a corner, but this Cliffhanger and see, I
28:03
feel like Davy with because doing that with himself in this
28:05
story, right? Where start off in the present.
28:07
Now we're going to the past where these action sequences,
28:10
right? Then we're going to add five.
28:17
We finish off the The rescue of Victoria, and if she gets nabbed
28:21
again and then the human factor is complete.
28:27
And we shall see what it does to the Daleks.
28:30
You said to me in one of the earlier episodes, you know, you
28:32
thought Victoria had a good showing in this story.
28:34
She had a much so far as I know she hasn't so far.
28:38
No she started screaming whimper to be fair, she's pretty good
28:42
enough for our rum to be fair. She's been kidnapped by Daleks
28:46
and she's never seen any alien creatures before.
28:48
So you know, she's still adjusting at this point.
28:50
That's true. I've not been in that situation
28:52
so I couldn't possibly attend. Oh yeah.
28:55
If you were imprisoned by a bunch of Daleks, I bet you'd
28:57
scream and whimper. Joe, I'll talk to him off.
29:00
Rock will be climbing up, ropes, and facing portcullises though.
29:03
Do you know your sigh? I'll find another loudmouth.
29:07
Doctor, Who fan. Don't worry a lot of trouble.
29:10
Well, before we had this episode, is there anything else
29:13
from Twitter? Is there anything else from
29:15
Twitter that's relevant to episode 4?
29:20
Let's have a closer look. So Fraser Gregory asks, who
29:26
writes Daleks the best David Whittaker or been on a beach?
29:31
Attackers. Was I swore?
29:33
He was going to say Terry Nation.
29:35
God, that's a toughie. I'll say David Whittaker.
29:40
It's it's almost unfair because David Whitaker's got 13 episodes
29:43
to play with and been around a bit Tony wrote for and for
29:48
bankers. Yeah, absolutely.
29:51
I think as far as the Daleks themselves, go, it's difficult
29:55
to say because David Whittaker wrote the Daleks themselves in
30:00
brilliant ways with them scheming in power of the Daleks
30:03
when they start off at a disadvantage and have to worm
30:06
their way into the colony and take what they need before, they
30:09
can burst out. And then evil of the Daleks
30:11
where he does something totally weird with them.
30:14
Been there on a bitch. I think he wrote one of the best
30:21
Dalek stories because he took what the Daleks actually are and
30:25
what they represent, and wrote a big story around it.
30:27
With lots of other characters showing similar issues as the
30:31
Daleks, it was kind of the whole point of the racial Purity,
30:35
angle of the Daleks was woven throughout remembrance of the
30:39
Daleks brilliantly. But the Daleks themselves But
30:43
just basically they shouted and shot at each other a lot.
30:47
But the joy of that was that suddenly we're in an era of
30:52
Television where we can start putting off some impressive,
30:57
Dalek on, Dalek action sequences.
31:00
Definitely I returned to block a set-piece remembrance is
31:03
fabulous. It's probably the best classic
31:06
Doctor. Who story it really is one of
31:08
the best especially in context when you look at season 24.
31:14
which, You know, it has its issues.
31:17
It tries is trying to do something good.
31:20
I think it falls short quite a bit in several places and the
31:24
tone and then you come to remembrance of the Daleks, it's
31:27
almost like you're watching a different show.
31:30
It's, you know, it's great. Love it.
31:33
It's certainly pulls his socks up, but I would still say David
31:37
Whittaker though, I think. Because I think empower the
31:40
Daleks he's written the definitive Dalek story and
31:44
obviously you know, we spent six episodes talking about that but
31:47
showing them at their tour, devious manipulative best.
31:51
I don't even need weapons in order to bring its calmly.
31:55
Okay, ultimately they do but they have to manipulate them in
31:58
order to be able to sort of You're Factor enough to wipe
32:02
them all out and they use their own, bloody greed and selfish
32:06
motivations. Again, that's just marvelous,
32:08
well, as like a of the Daleks because apart from the doctor
32:11
that and the companions, there are no good guys.
32:13
Among the people that they encounter, yeah, everyone is
32:16
motivated by some form of self-interest.
32:19
You are fabulous bitch. Chan Lee I love her she's gonna
32:23
but then an evil is doing you're right.
32:26
He's doing something really unusual.
32:28
He's putting him in an unusual. Setting.
32:30
And he's having them behave in a very unusual way throughout and
32:35
that's really interesting as well.
32:36
Just the weirdness of it is interesting.
32:39
Yeah, I'm Steve, Alexander are on that front asked.
32:42
Do you like this reinvention of the Daleks as mythical almost
32:45
magical creatures? Yes, I do very much.
32:49
I had not even thought of it in those terms before but yeah I
32:52
suppose you know magical creatures coming out of a
32:55
cabinet and Doing weird and wonderful things are just, yeah,
33:00
it's kind of, I like it. I like it.
33:02
I mean, I have a Hall of Mirrors, you know, in a puff of
33:05
smoke, but I don't know, I think the Mythic comes in the last
33:07
episode. Oh yeah.
33:09
It's you know, the sort of Destruction that you talk about
33:13
in countless eons to come. Do you remember when the Dalek
33:16
Emperor was taken down on skaro and the good Daleks went in and
33:21
blasted the shit out of everybody.
33:22
It's caused a massive Civil War. It is Miffy.
33:25
It's so Mythic, they didn't dare do another.
33:27
Dollar store for about six years.
33:29
Yeah, absolutely. For how we're gonna top that but
33:32
the Final End, we'll get there. We'll get that.
33:36
It's a which will recover that question.
33:37
Well, I think we did okay. You think we can cover up so
33:41
five now I think we can cover episode 5.
33:44
Let's do that. Okay, let's do it Bosh.