Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind with Kate Banford

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Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind with Kate Banford · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast. The questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have wenen and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands or do they happened individualism the patriarchy zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hi,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: welcome to the back Doll Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Durante. And we're back, Baby, We're back.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, for you guys were never we were never gone.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: But for us, we were gone. We were gone in
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: the sunset. I was out of town for a couple
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: of weeks and we changed and you were gone. You
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: were also gone. I'm so sorry to forget your experience,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: even though I just said I was gone. Wait, okay, yeah,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I was gone for longer. So I feel like I win.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: That is what I want to think about it. You
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: actually did win the contest of being gone. And then
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: also we are recording in yet a different place than
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: we have in all of our other episodes. Yeah, because
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: we were mostly at the studio at Maldon Comics. And
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: then we record at a few episodes at the Ruby,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: which is a comedy venue next door to Meltdown Plug,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: A good venue venue. Sorry, I shouldn't have say good.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about, well, we'll get there. We'll
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: get there. Now. We are recording in the How Stuff
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Works studio. Yeah, I'm freaking. I mean, daily Zeitgeist is
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: recorded here. We're here pretty frequently. I love a snack
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: set up here. The one note one note for this
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: amazing new space we're being allowed to use. Um Aristotle
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: is a full pane of glass away from us. Yes,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and that is new and I have to turn around
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: to see him. It's really well, we're experimenting with the
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: chair set up like this. I would say, this isn't
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: like I don't know. We'll see, we'll feel it out. Anyways,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: we're excited. Were excited. We've got an a v club
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: right up. Today we did that was a kick. By
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the time you're you'll hear this episode, it'll be weeks away.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's new for us today. Yeah. Yeah, with
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: our Anna Josie episode on She's all that. So we're excited.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: We get a lot of stuff to talk about today.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled about our guests today. Let's oh wait,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: what's the vital test? Oh yeah, let's talk about that.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Forgot So the Bechtel Cast is a podcast where we
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the portrayal of women and it's inspired by
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test, which requires that a movie has two
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: female identifying characters in it who have names, who speak
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: to each other, and their conversation has to be about
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: anything other than a man. Can I give you literally
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the most like insane example of the Bechtel test being passed?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So for work this week, for work, I had to
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: play this anime porn game called Pussy Saga. For I
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: didn't have to play it for ten hours, but I
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: did play it for ten hours. Pussy Saga, I mean,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: by and large, really just a scourge on humanity where
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: it's all animal titties. It's to choose your own adventure
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: game and the setup is wild. The setup is that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the Greek poet Sappho has been kidnapped, famous queer Greek
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: poet Sappho has been kidnapped by a sex demon and me,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the player also me personally, has to fill a jar
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: with the come of five different women uh in order
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to rescue the Greek poets Sappho. And that's the conceived
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of the game, which is wild. To hear from a
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: woman you meet because she is broken into your home.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: It is masturbating on your bed. This is not called
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: into question. This is the rules of the universe. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I go in there like, okay, I know you just
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: got me masturbating. But here's the thing. The Greek poets
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Sappho has been kidnapped and you need to get the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: come of five women or she will die. And I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's do it. Anyways, you have to,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of spread your seed. And it's very
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: problematic and I don't have time to get into it.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: But the way you meet the women who's come, you
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: can say, truly get to release the Greek poets afo.
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  Speaker 1: The way you meet is there is a conversation, a
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: cut scene where they talk to each other, which means
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: every woman you've ever had sex with knows each other
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: by one degree of separation. Another crazy world rule. But
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty much part for the course for me.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So there, Wow, you're such a wild child. There's okay.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So this is a scene between Marina and Linda, both
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: of whom I've had digital sex with. Also, you don't
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: actually have c intercourse or have sex with them. You
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: see basically play candy crush and then at the end
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: it's like you fucked her, she's yours now, and it's
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: it's wild you play puzzles. So they have this really
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: like kind of sweet cutaway scene about Linda's relationship with
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: her mom right before I have sex with both of them.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: This is your mom still nagging you. You need to
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: tell her this relationship isn't normal. And then Linda says,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know she's my mother. After all, I'm not
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: afraid of her or anything. I just feel lousy when
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I'm around owned her. That passes the PacTel shirt. And anyways,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: this episode is sponsored by Pussy Saga and do not
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: play it well. This has been a long and trail. Yeah,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: but I'm glad you shared that with us. It's important
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: for our listeners to know. I wrote a three thousand
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: word essay about it. So there's more if you're interested
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in pussy tagas. Anyways, let's get to our podcast that
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: we have. Let's do that just got very disturbed our
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: guest today. We're very excited about um. She owns and
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: runs the Good Good Comedy Theater in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: being the state that I'm from. Interesting that you made
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that about you, So sorry. I just started for four
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  Speaker 1: to five minutes about anyway. She is wonderful. You're gonna
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: love her. Kate Banford, Hello, Thanks. Okay, I also feel
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: very rude because I told you to say that, but
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I should say I co own and co run it
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: with Aaron Evans, who my other half. Well that's another
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: one of the great, another great, great person. Thanks for
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: being here, and thanks for bringing us the movie Eternal
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Sunshine of the Spotless Mine. Thank you for having me.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it. So what's your
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: history with this movie? When did you first see it? So?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I was trying to rack my brain
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: of the first time I saw this movie, and I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: don't quite recall, but I feel like I probably saw
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: it for the first time when I was like a teen,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: maybe like in my fifteens sixteens, and that era, which
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: is pre ever having a serious relationship or hating someone
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: while also loving them in that particular way. Um, but
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I had just rewatched this movie. Actually, it's crazy. I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: watched the movie recently, cried afterwards for like twenty minutes straight,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and then I watched the commentary, like right, after that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: as well, and then I watched it again this morning,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: so I've really been just knee deep in some nal
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: sunshine recently. Sure, yeah, it's really good. It's yeah. I
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: think part of the reason why I wanted to talk
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: about this movie is it's just so emotionally captivating and
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: it's like also just like visually, it's like stimulating to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: all the senses except for taste. I taste, I can
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: taste smart RUFFLOA wow, very h that was my big
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: crush take away from this movie was a new I
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: don't know if I knew who Mark Rufflo was before
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I saw this movie. Well when did you first see
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I watched it with a group of
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: girls sometime in my junior year of high school. I think,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: so pretty young, pretty impressionable, kind of like UK like
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't fully relate to it, but like like the few
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: lines in this movie that everyone says all the time,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, because this was like, this is such
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: an interesting example of like manic Pixie dream girl being
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: commented upon before that term was even in the world,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and I was worried about that going into this view
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: because I've seen it. I think again in college. Maybe
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: one out of This is probably the fourth or fifth
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: time I was watching it ever, and I was thinking
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: about it because I saw you last week and you
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: were you were like, I watched the movie and then
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I wanted the commentary. I was like, wow, I need
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: to like revisit it, and I was worried about how
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it would hold up. But all the like red flags
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I wrote down in the first half of the movie
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: are commented on and resolved by the end of the movie,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: and I was it just feels good to like a
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: movie still and not be like, well, this one goes
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: back in the trash, even though it made me weep
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: as a teenager. I was sobbing last night. Yeah, it's
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: so sad. It just it really captures like true human ocean.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what the red flags are you're
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: talking about. I didn't really think about it that way,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: but I think that the fact that they get resolved
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: is like a sign of the movie being able to
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: talk about how complex humans are and how we can
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: be shitty, shitty people and then very loving and caring
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: people at the same time. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah, And usually
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: with like those stock characters, they don't exist to be
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: complex they exist to advance the right narrative. For I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: don't know Orlando Bloom right, who was Elizabeth Sound? Orlando
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Bloom was absolutely my major crush when I was like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and he wasn't really anything before The Lord of the Rings,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: but after Yes to the Caribbean. Yeah, I found um.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: When I was home this past week, I found my
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: old dance bag and zip in the front pocket was
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a picture I had torn out of a magazine of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Legois like arching and I was like, whoa weird horny
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: kid thing to do? Yeah, I didn't. I don't even
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: remember having a crush on Orlando Bloom as Lego less,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: but apparently I did. You had to. Yeah, Um, I
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: first saw this movie. It came on two thousan four.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think I saw it right away in theaters,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: but I think I saw it probably a year or
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: two after that. I well, this has a lot to
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: do with me being emotionally dead inside, but this have
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you been in a long term relationship? I sure have not,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: so that also might have something to do with interesting
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: because that's what I was thinking about this morning. I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: was like, I wonder if that changes people's perception of
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, Although I do think it does a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: good job of representing all the intricacies of a relationship
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: in a way that a lot of movies don't bother too.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: And that's like one of the things I want to
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: talk about when we get into the discussion. But yeah,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I I still as someone who exists in the world
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and has like friendships and meaningful relationships outside of romantic questionships,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I still can understand and appreciate like all of the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: intricacies that this movie delves into when it comes to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a relationship. And then Jamie to piggyback off what you
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: were saying, where you're like, oh, it's still nice to
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: be able to like a movie because we've done just
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: after doing podcasts for a year and a half. Now, yeah,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: it's really Yeah the podcast basically, I when the Avy
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Club wrote that sorry to keep bringing it up, but
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the like over the past eighteen months and then sort
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of said that we've grown as people. I was like,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: that's not true. We haven't grown as plain you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: we are even probably worse than we were before. But yep,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that's going to be like speak to yourself for that's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: like Nope, but the record show I have gotten worse
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and will continue to. Well, I've been wanting to bring
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: this up every now and then, but like I've listened
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to our first probably like twelve episodes are so recently
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: people knew the cast, listen to them all. But also
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: like we've our voices have definitely grown and we've done
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a lot better when it comes to like critically analyzing movies.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I watch all the movies. Now you watch them all.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, I feel like in the first few
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: episodes I just had like really flimsy arguments about everything,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and I think we hated women when we started the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: podcast is the problem, but we like them. Wow that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: you guys have grown, you haven't get worse. It actually
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: get start as an alright podcast and now podcast. Yeah,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: this movie in particular seems to be a very personal
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: experience for everyone who like everyone watches this movie a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: slightly different way. I feel like, and if you have
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a specific experience of it, feel free to last note.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But like, I'm pretty sure every time I've seen this movie,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I've been thinking about a different person. Where it's so
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: easy to project yourself onto these characters, which is like
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: what a lot of good movies and bad movies are
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: enable you to do. But like, yeah, like I think
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I was like thinking of a different person this time
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: watching it than I was the last time I was
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: watching it, and my experience of it changed a little bit,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: and like different parts hit for me in different ways,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and oh, it's just really good. It is I would say,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: it holds up and it has a really good script.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I would know this as someone who does have a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: master's screen screenwriting from Boston University. I don't like to
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: bring it up, but uh, this is this is our
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: first on the list of people who our listeners are
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: always like, what about this one? That's my impression from
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I care, but it is our first Charlie Kaufman joint yeah,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: that we've done and directed by Michelle Country, who is
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: not Spiked John, which is who I thought this movie
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: was directed by. Which also Michelle Gondry has a music
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: video that I don't know if you guys have seen it,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: which is like one of my favorite music videos of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: all time, and it's very similar in aesthetic to this movie.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It's the Chemical Brothers Let Forever Be. The music video
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: is like a dreamlike dance song and it uses in
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the same way this movie does that uses like practical
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: effects as well as like editing tricks, and I just
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: see that music video and I'm like, yeah, of course
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this is this is the only person who could execute
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: this movie properly. Yeah. The look of this movie, I mean,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and we don't get into this too much on our podcast,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but like the way this movie shot is crazy. It's
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: like so so so it's the most amazing. It's just
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: such incredible filmwork and just seeing because you're kind of
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like watching magic because they'll do like
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: one shots and Jim Carey will be like in one
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: place and then another place, where like Kate Winslett will
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: be a one place and then another place, but all
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: in the same shot. And it's because they're like diving
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: through holes and like getting up or like changing their
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: outfit and moving places and being themselves at a different
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: time within like a span of three seconds. And it's
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: so it just like it really gives you this like
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: very realistic, like scary movie type shock value. I was
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: gonna say, there's like there's a lot of imagery in
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: this movie that you could easily find in a horror movie,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: like would not be out of place at all, Right,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because it uses it's almost like
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: it uses like art house kind of stuff, scary film stuff,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and then drama and comedy and like Flapstick. It just
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: uses a large variety of genres and it just melts
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: them all together in such a wonderful it's also good.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: It's perfect. Well, I have some notes, but before we
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: get um, before we get to those, shall we do
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the recap? Okay? So, internal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: is about the relationship between Joel played by Jim Carey
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and Clementine played by Kate Winslett. They meet, presumably on
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a train, and then we cut kind of further into
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: their relationships, sort of as they're breaking up. And then
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: immediately after they've broken up, and they both decide to
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: get this procedure by which they erase their memories of
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: each other. So they basically will go through this procedure
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and then they come out on either side. She gets
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: at first, he finds out she's getting it, and he's like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I'll show you, and then he's like, I'm going to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: win the break gap um, which, like fair have tried
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to do that a bunch of times. So she erases
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: her memory of him first, and then he's like, Okay,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: well I'm going to undergo this procedure now. As well
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: as he's undergoing it. During the procedure, he's reliving all
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: these memories and he decides that he actually doesn't want
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to forget about her, and he decides that he's going
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to try to like call it off. But this proves
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to be difficult because he is unconscious and there's really
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: no way to do that. Mark and his underwear dancing dancing.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, that just feels important to mention that Mark
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Ruffo is in his underwear and he does have really
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: nice legs. You see also a little bit of his butt,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you do. I mean, the cinematography is fine, but Mark
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: rufflos but really stole the show for me. But work
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: is incredible. I've honestly never seen better. But where but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Work you can see in a horror movie and it
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be out of place exactly. It's a great But
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: it's a great Mark Rufflo is so handsome, it's just crazy,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: like and I was like, I like I had my
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: teenage crush all over again. Yeah. Elijah Woods in it,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: he looks like shit. Also, he's very creepy. He Yeah,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: he's creepy and he looks fourteen. Yeah, that's my critique.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So that all of these characters are in the movie
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: because they're the ones who are executing this procedure. So
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: like Mark Ruffalo is the head technician, Elijah Wood is there,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Kirston Dunce shows up eventually, I wasn't clear in what
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: her job would she like the receptionist. So Joel has
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: decided that he is gonna try to basically stop this
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: procedure from happening so that he does end up remembering Clementine.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: So he's basically taking her and they're like trying to
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: run away from the like deletion of his memories. He
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: tries to like hide her in his subconscious. Basically they
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: try to sort of like create new memories to start
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: her into so that they can't find her to delete them. Um,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: so they're doing all this stuff. Meanwhile, like Mark Ruffalo
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and all those guys are like, WHOA, something's happening. This
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: isn't working, Like he's like reliving memories that were already deleted.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So they call in the doctor named Howard played by
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson, one of my favorite character actors. So the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: doctor shows up and Kirston Dunce is like, oh, how
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: are I have a crush on you? And we find
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: out they have a romantic history and then she forgot
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that and I was like, I've forgotten that too, So
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: she we find out had her memories of him erased.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And then when she discovers this, she is very upset
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and she decides to basically reveal to all the customers
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: of this mind eraser company, like basically what happened. So
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the procedure for Joel ends up actually working, like all
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of his memories of Clementine are erased. But they meet
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: again because there is a small like fragment of her
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: memory where she's like, meet me in Montalk, and then he,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: like on a whim, decides to go to Montalk, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: then they meet on the train, which is the opening
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: sequence of the movie, and they're like, wait, that wasn't
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: them meeting for the first time. That was them re
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: meeting and our minds explode. But then they immediately discover
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that they already had a history, that they had already
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: been together because they get the correspondence from Kirsten Dunce's character.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: It says like, here's all the information about your partner
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that you had erased, and then they decide, oh, even
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: though we like maybe weren't that good for each other
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: or we were unhappy that go around, let's try it again.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: But they don't explicitly say that. Yeah, they just basically
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: say like, Okay, yeah, you don't know what's going to happen.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I know, And that, I think is what makes me
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: so sad at the end. It's just because that's like
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you just don't know. It's very It's like I think
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: like living in that space is like like sad and terrifying,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: but also like really beautiful at the same time. So
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: it's like obviously I'm going to cry that scene. Yeah,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that scene really fun. Yeah, they're like they're like laughing
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and they're like happy and excited while also being like scared.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Just a very interesting place to end it in. Yeah,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: for sure. It's a very like non Hollywood ending, right
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: because Hollywood movies would be like they are definitely back
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: together in this time worked like this is like we
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: don't know and neither do you. But thankfully it's also
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: not like just like a sad super realistic ending, which
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: is like we would know they don't make it, which
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I'm also happy you don't have like you would think
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Charlie Coffman would be a pessimist enough to like end
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: it that way, be interested in like, yeah, what passed
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: drafts of it? Or if it's like ever at any
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: point and differently, I don't know, but I think that
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: that's like the ending is why people are so easily
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: able to project themselves into the movie, because it's like
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you just don't yeah know, like you can watch that
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: movie and still be in a relationship and be like
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it's us, or you can be out of relationship like
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: it's us. Like there's just so many different ways to
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to come at it and oh it's so good, all right?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: That there it is? That is it? Jamie? You mentioned
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the manic Pixie dreamgirl trope, which I definitely I don't
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: remember Clementine's character being that, but like when I was
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: rewatching it, yeah for sure. I well, I had seen
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: this movie like once and then I light did enough
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to buy it on DVD and then never rewatched it
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: until like yesterday, So I didn't remember that that was
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: like a component of her character. And I started watching,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, like this the first couple
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of scenes, You're like Oh no, it like really punches
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: you in the face with it. Can I can I
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: give the official definition of MANI I was just looking
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: a up. Yeah, it's a Nathan Raven great writer two
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: thousand seven. He originated the term in a review for
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Elizabethtowns Kursten Dunns Kurston Dunz character. Uh and then the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: world never onside. But it defines a character as a bubbly, shallow,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: cinematic creature that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: sensitive writer directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures. Basically, she's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: cute and she fixes him so when school, and he
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: even directly says that towards the end of the movie
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: when they're in the bookstore Barnes and Noble. Yeah, they're
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: at Barnes and Noble and they're kind of just like
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: coming to except that he's not going to remember her,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I even thought you were going to
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: fix me. Here I still thought you were. But she
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: says specifically, men all think that I'm going to fix you.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So he really comments on it in that scene heavily
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: before this term was even a thing. It's so yeah,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: it's like so interesting and cool that that that the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: movie does make so many comments on a term that
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: had not quite fully become a part of popular conscious
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: at least. But there's yeah, there's that line where and
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: she ends up saying it. I think it almost three
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: different points in the movie, because you can tell it's
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: just like a line she has in the back room,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: right yeah. Or she's like, I'm not a concept. Too
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: or I'm going to make them alive. But I'm just
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: a fucked up girl looking for my own peace of
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: mind and I kind of hate that, but whatever, don't
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: assign me yours. And then we're like yeah, screen and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: then crashed through the ceiling. But yeah, I mean the
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: first thing we see Clementine in she's sort of got
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that manic pixie vibe to her where she's got weird
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: hair and she's like, Hi, who are you? Unremarkable man,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I'm amazing, And she talks really fast and she like it,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: gets very intimate with him very quickly. Yeah, and he's
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: clearly very uncomfortable. And then we found out later that
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that's because there's something in the back of her mind
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: that knows him, and so there is a motivated reason
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: for him to go up to him that those characters
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: normally wouldn't have. And then we also find out all
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: this stuff about her that is like, okay, like we
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: we know people in our lives and like I you know,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: like maybe even have elements of it ourselves. That the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: manic pixie thing is like a total front to hide
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: uh issues you have, right, And so for Clementine it
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: comes up she like drinks too much but tries to
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: make it look cute. Been there she like there's like
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different stuff where she's like super flaky,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: she's super impulsive, but she's like it's because I'm cute,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: and it's that's just that's me. And she's also like
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: clearly very loving, but also has like a temper too,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: because it seems like she like blows up a lot
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: off of like little things that should maybe be talked about.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And then his character is messed up because he'll always
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: be like I don't want to talk about it. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it. I don't want to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: talk about it. And I see that I'm like, yes,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I'm both of those people well, and then and Joel too.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It's like where they are both like fundamentally good people, right,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Like they're not bad people, but there's so much that's
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: wrong with both of them that you're just like a,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: it's it's normal people, where like Joel is critical of her,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: and the things he's critical of are valid, but the
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: way he's expressing it is so annoying and biting and
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: like hass of aggressive. Yeah, you're like, yeah, I would
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: probably run out of that. Yeah, And it's like she's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it's partially because he's right, but it's mostly because he's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: just like, like it makes me so clearly also has
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: like a nice guy complex about him, which again is
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: addressing that first scene where she's like why do you
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: keep saying nice? Why? And it's clear that he thinks
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: he's being a good guy when he's like just being
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: a guy. Well, That's why I'm prepared to argue that
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: even though she comes off, especially in those first couple
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of scenes, as like the manic pixie dreamgirl type, the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: thing with that trope is that that type of character,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: that archetype, is often not developed any bit beyond that,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: So it's just like very surface level, like yeah, but
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: like she presents that way at least at first, but
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like we get to know her so well
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and her character so well developed that I think that
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: she has the persona. But then it drops like, like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I have no criticism of it that you would have
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: with a normal manic pixie dream girl character, because normally,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: if you remove that facade from that character, there's nothing
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: left because that character exists to advance the male's agenda
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: or the you know, like if we're using elizabeth Town,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: like Christian Dunst is like like I think like a
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: stewardess or something who's like, Hi, I'm quirky, what's your problem? Um,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: let me help. I'm going to coit my job and
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I have nice hair and my teeth are a little crooked. Well,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: your dad died. I've got it, you know, And it's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: like she doesn't exist outside of but it's like a
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: very one dimensional portrayal. What's so funny about the fact
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that Kate Winslet's character is not a manic pixie dream
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: girl is that she is actually literally of the movie
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: in someone's dreams or memories or fantas. Yeah, so it's
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: interesting that, um, that's the situation that it's within. It's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: interesting because it's like the element that we get to
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: know inside of her head that's not even her really
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: his reception of her. Yeah, but this was in the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: commentary from Michelle Gondry or Charlie Kaufman, I don't remember which. Oh,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: it's Michelle Gundry talking about it, because he talks about
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: how I think they're like kind of having an argument
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: over like it being essentially Jim Carrey's perspective of her,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: and it's like not technically her exactly. And then Michelle
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: is like, oh, well, I remember when my dad died.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I would have conversations with him in my dreams and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like I was making this person up. This
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: was my dad. And it's like I know my dad
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: well enough that it can actually create a really like
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: vivid picture. And he was like speaking through Michelle essentially.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a really interesting thing to say. Well. Also,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: like with Joel, he in the story is generally a
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: pretty reliable narrator, So if he was presented as a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: character in the story who wasn't as reliable, we would
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: maybe question his perception of Clementine a little bit more.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: But because he the story depicts him as being like
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the quote reliable narrator type, then I think we can
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: trust him enough and his perception of her enough that
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: what we see of her in his memory is generally
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: pretty true to who she is, so that that would
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: have bothered me if he had a very skewed perception
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: of her, and that even of how he was speaking
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: about things or something, and he always seemed like the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: good guy right exactly. But he Yeah, his memories are
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: pretty objective in the sense that he's remembering him being
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: shitty as well as her being shitty, and then also
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: being loving and good to each other. So if it
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: had been a little bit different, we wouldn't have been
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: able to trust him as much, and then his perception
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of her would not be reliable. I think, yeah, So
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I like how the movie handles that, and I think
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: that just also speaks to like I was saying before,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: how both of these characters are so well developed and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: don't rely on this like stock one dimensional like man
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: pixie dreamgirl type that doesn't get developed any bit beyond
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that because like so few movies that like ones that
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: we've talked about, even don't bother to develop their characters
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: well enough that we would understand why two people would
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: be together. So yeah, like a lot of movies that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: we've talked about depict like a hetero romantic relationship in
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a way that we're like, well, why do they even
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: like each other? Like what's compatible about them? And I
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: think that's usually a result of the female character being
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: so underdeveloped that we have no idea why they would
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: like each other, or why like the guy would like
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: her or anything like that. For example, like movies that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: we've done so far in the podcast, Twilight actually kind
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of Almond, Okay, don't I'm getting um love Actually, the
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Princess Brod the Holiday, Uh, this happens. I feel like
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: in Blade Runner, The Mummy, our favorite movie, Gli a Julie,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: they're perfect for each other, they're terrible. So that's a
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: common trend in movies. Or if a movie does take
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the time to develop its female characters a little bit,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the movie will often still force the woman to end
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: up with a man who has either lied to her,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: manipulated her, or done something else that's otherwise extremely shitty
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: that should be grounds for dismissal, but instead she's like,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but we're going to end up together at the end
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: and have a little kiss um. For example, this happens
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: in I Love a Little kids Um Hate the slur Um.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: This happens in She's All That Ghostbusters Groundhog Day. Like
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the movies will put them together at the end, even
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: though we as the audience don't necessarily understand why this
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: would be. As long as you think about it for
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: like two seconds, you're like, oh wait, why is she
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: picking him again? Like why are they end up ending
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: up together? Because he was very bad to her throughout
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the entire course of the movie. But this movie, Eternal Sunshine,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I think does a really good job developing both characters
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and exploring, like I said, the intricacies of a romantic
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: relationship in a way that most movies don't bother at all.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: So I appreciated that about the movie. Another thing that
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to me about Clem's character, and I guess like would
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: have about Joel if we saw him in another relationship
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: where something we haven't gotten into it all yet is
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a little little Elijah Wood, the sneak, who is whose
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: character I almost totally forgot about in like the because
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in maybe three years or so,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: but who has. And I think this is like a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: commentary of some sort on how men view women, because
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: that's something I think Charlie Kaufman is really good at,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Like he can write a female character, which a lot
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: of male screen orders absolutely cannot do. But he's but
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: like his like real strength is like writing about how
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: men view women wrongly a lot of the time. And
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: so like Elijah's character, Let's call him Little Patrick because
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: he's he's a little pot little photo and is the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: precious she is the ring. Let me put it in
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: some terms you nerds can understand, for Rhoda wants the ring,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: but the ring is does not need a man. Sorry,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Eternal Sunshine isn't like a twelve part series that's just
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: going to continue on. Oh god, it's just like you
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: need a different co host. So we're to believe that
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Joel gets his procedure done the week after Clementine has
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: hers done, and it was all the same people basically
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: who did the same thing to Clem the week before,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and we don't find out the way that information is
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: revealed as also very well done. Of like we see
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: her like not recognized Joel after her memory has been wiped,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and then she says, hi Patrick, baby boy, and then
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: goes to kiss question Mark actually Elisha Wood because he
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: saw Kate Winslett unconscious and was like all in love
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: with her right right, which is fucked up right there.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: It's crazy and it's like, oh, you know, a man
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: projecting whatever the funk he wants on to someone he
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't know while literally erasing her memory. Fucked, it's bucked,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and then steals her underwear just a good measure, steals
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: her underwear and then steals all the mementos that Joel
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: had bought for her as gifts, yeah, and just even
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: just mementos of their relationship, and starts stealing his history
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: with Clementine and essentially bringing this into his relationship with
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Clementine basically because he thinks it will win her over. Yeah, exactly,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: which in a in a different movie, that would make
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: her be won over by him because women aren't complex, right,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: because men be manipulating women in movies. And usually it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: okay because she'll still decide to end up with him.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: But great thing about this movie is that does not happen. No,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And then like the whole thing you can tell feels
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: very off to her and then she's just like I
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: have to go like and it's great, but yeah, I
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: feel like of all the male characters and it is
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: mostly male characters in this movie, Patrick is like the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: most obviously flawed, and it's also explained why he's that way,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: which I would hope that like Little Dweeby dudes Allah,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Elijah Wood would see that and be like, oh, that
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: is a flawed way of thinking, because he says a
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: few different times to Mark Gruffalo parenthes hot guff is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: like the moral like he's like the moral standard in
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: a way too. He comes out on top because I
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: forgot I forgot out if he was lying to Chris
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: and Dunson. At the end you're like he wasn't. Yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: he's a good guy now, and then I was like,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: thank god, now I feel good about right. But Elijah
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Woods character like keep saying to Mark Ruffalo, He's like, well,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm like not really good with ladies, and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: so he does that thing that like nerdy characters in
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: eighties movies would do, which is like, I'm not good
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: with ladies, so instead I have to trick one into
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: liking right, And we see that go horrendously wrong in
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: this movie, which normally we wouldn't good job movie. You
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: did the damn thing another thing I wanted to talk about.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if this has any legitimacy at all,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: so ready watch out for something that might be complete
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and utter bullshit. But one of the scenes that I
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: really liked happens pretty early on. Joel and Clementine are
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: in bed together. She is drinking out of a with
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: her own face on it. She's saying something like, you
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: don't tell me anything, like I share everything with you.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I want to know you. People have to share things.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: That's what intimacy is, and he's just all like, well,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: you just talked too much. I don't know if there's
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: like active commentary being made on this or not, or
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: if this is just sort of my interpretation of it,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: but I feel like that scene shows a lot of
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: like the emotional labor that, especially in hetero relationships, that
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: women often tend to have to do and to deal
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: with because men are conditioned to repress their emotions, women
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: are conditioned to be more emotionally nurturing. So she's over
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: there being like, oh, like we need to talk, like
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: you need to tell me things and he's like, no,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. And I feel like men tend
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: to perceive interactions like that is women being naggy, but
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: in this scene, like I'm totally on her side, where
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, you, like you have to share
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: things about yourself, like you have to be a emotionally
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: open and vulnerable or also relationship is ever going to work.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: And he's so passive. He's I wrote it down because
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, and I could hear an ex boyfriend
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: of mine saying that to me, you know, constantly talking
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: isn't necessarily communicating Comma Jamie period. And I was like,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that's like what he says, and you're just like, fuck you.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: But it also portrays the complexity of a relationship to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: with like what's happening verbally and like physically, because she's
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: like being really intimate and like kissing his cheek and
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: hugging him and touching him, and then he says that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: really mean thing and she continues and then it like
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: kind of sets in and then she gets really piste
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: off and like turns away. But then now he's like, oh,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: she's gone, and so he tries to kiss her and
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: hold her and like nuzzle her and she goes away.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's a scene that really sticks
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: in the brain too, because it's not only what's happening
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: emotionally and verbally, it's like also like physics, like their
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: physical touch of the body language. Yeah, yeah, mimics what's
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: going on there? Yeah. Yeah, So that scene stuck with
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: me is being like, oh, like, look at all the
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: emotional heavy lifting that women often tend to have to
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: do in heter relationships. I don't know if that gets
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: like commented on that much in media and stuff like that,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: because women like usually a portrayal like that in a
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: movie would be like, look, how naggy she is, right,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I think what you see over and over and it's
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: it's typically like the reason for their conflict and you're like,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: you guys should really go to a couple of therapy.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I think you can make it work. You guys just
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: really needed to learn how to work through community. But
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: seeing like how they are in the flea market as well,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: it's like she says something, he says something really shitty
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: to her about like not being ready to be a mother,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and she's like, yes, I can be a mother, Like
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to be a mother, and then they have
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: this whole blowout and he's just like, I don't want
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it, and she's trying
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. So I think it's like a
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: it's definitely a pattern that keeps happening in this film,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: specifically of she's trying to unpack the mean things that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he's saying to her and he's unwilling to do it,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: but then that causes her to freak out because what
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. You're like, it's not being gas lit,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: but it is being like shut down. You're like, you
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: just said something horrible to me, and now I can't
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: confront this thing. So then you start to feel like crazy,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: like you're trapped inside of your own head. Right, But
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: we also know it's weird because this relationship is so
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: fascinating and like familiar feelings, Like we objectively know why
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: he's saying what he's saying, right, because she's like an
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: alcoholic clear, but he won't just say that, right, And
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, if you not confront but like sort
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: of like talk about this in a controlled setting where
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: you're being honest with each other, then you can address like, Okay,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: she's got a problem. How can we fix this instead
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: of just being like you can't be a mother? And like,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: so we know why he's saying what he's saying. It's
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: not again, in a lot of movies that aren't this
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: well thought out, it's just why is he so mean?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Like why is he saying It's like, Okay, yeah, he's
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: frustrated because she's an alcoholic. Yeah, he won't say anything.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: And you can tell because this movie does such a
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: good job of like building up the subtlety of resentments.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And the reason resentments are built up is because of
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: no one's like communicating what they're feeling, and so it
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: comes up in like these terrible, terrible moments. And do
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: you think that's why maybe like as he's reliving these
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: memories and like sort of like reseeing how he handled them,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and maybe that's why he's like, wait, I don't want
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to forget these, like I want a chance to almost
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: redo this. Well, I think that's what's so interesting about
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this movie is because it's like it's essentially commenting on
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the fact that it's like you shouldn't erase your history
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: because mistakes are made. Like, even if this relationship does
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: end and it fucking sucks and it's like the worst
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: you have a whole year of like torture after the
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: end of this relationship. It's like you learn from that,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and if you're just erasing it, you're just going to
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: keep reliving it over and over again. Yeah, and he's
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: clearly and I think what's so beautiful. I mean, something
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I specifically love about this movie is how they comment.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I just find this to be so insanely good. Is
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: that they comment on what's happening in front of them
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: while also living in the moment. And have you guys
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: seen Fleabag that TV show, so you know how she
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: turned to the like chewing gum. They'll like turn to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the camera and talk to the camera, and that's how
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: you get their internal monologue. Whereas this film does something
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen in anything else ever. Also,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the TV show Unfabulous. I loved that
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: show at an age where I should not have loved
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that show. It was really at It's so good though. Yeah,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: but she'll like live out her fantasies and then pop
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: back into reality, and that happens in so many things,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: but in this movie you'll see them happening simultaneously within
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: like the same breath or with like in like one
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: shot within a conversation between the two people. So seeing
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: someone commenting on what's happening in front of them, yeah,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: like in real time, in real time is a really
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: insane thing to see. And it's like it's like, yeah,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: and you're you're watching someone learn as you're seeing it
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: for the first time. It's I don't know. Yeah. The
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: last thing I want to say about Clement Tank, because
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: we haven't even started talking about Marryott, right, is we
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: see that and we see this with Joel two, but
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: more so with Clem because we see how she acts
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: with sneaky little Patrick. Um is that for her the
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: same like most of us, the same insecurities pop up
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: in every relationship. And it's like sort of a variation
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: on a theme where there's that scene like is so
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: beautiful but also really breaks her heart where she's like,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I never felt pretty, I never felt like I was
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: pretty enough of the blow because an insecurity. So many
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: women have UM that starts when they're very young, and
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: we see that scene that is like very beautiful and sweet,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: where like joels like you are a pretty well one
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: and gives her what she needs in that moment, and
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: then we see that same refrain repeat itself when she's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: with Patrick, she calls him out of nowhere and it's like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: am I ugly? Yeah? I have certainly done, and like
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like like, hold on, I just had a thought. I'm awful. Wait,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you're also caught. You're calling attention to something too that
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't even connect. But it's like that is a
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: core issue of Joe and her relationship, which is that
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: she uses her sexuality to gain attention and to make friends.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Is essentially what he says, like, she'll like dangle like
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: the thought of sex in front of people to like
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: make friends, and that is like, obviously it's a very
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: feminine struggle like that, Like every single woman who listens
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: to this is going to be like, yes, there have
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: been friends where a guy was my friend. I didn't
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: want to date them, and then they sat being my
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: friend and then you're like, oh, the only reason men
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: want to be my friend is because there's the potential
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: for me to kiss them but them Oh wow, pussy taga, Yes,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: pussy Taga Queen but yeah, that's definitely like the being pretty,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: being pretty, being fuckable. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: that role, like feeling like you need to occupy that role. Fortunately,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: like some men are able to be your friend, but
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of men, especially like kind of kind of aren't.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Like I've had friendships that I assumed were friendships that
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: once it was like I don't know, once I made
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: it myself clear of like, oh no, that's not what
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for here, they sort of disappear. You're just
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like or you see a girlfriend of yours who's like,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: you can tell they're not being clear about a relationship
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: because they like this relationship hip and they're scared that
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: if they say something about it, that friendship, which is
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: such an unfair burdens and it's so many people have
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: to deal with exactly, And it's very cool that this
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: movie is essentially is like kind of delving into that
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: in a very very subtle way. Yeah, it's like it's
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: a it's it's not even a character flaw on Clementine's part,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: just like a very recognizable quality that's like, Okay, what
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you're doing is not the right thing to be doing.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: But I understand why you're doing it and it's sort
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: of put upon you in this very complex way. What
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: a GORERD character. Let's talk about Mary. Yeah, I have
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: a question about Mary. Actually, so something about So my
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: question about Mary is sorry writing is titled down because
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: there needs to be. Hey, Hollywood, here's my pitch for
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: a question about Mary. Um. Okay, we learned that she
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: and Howard the doctor had a romantic Howard not Howard
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: how Are the doctor whose last name I simply don't
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: know how to pronounce. Um okay, So honestly, I personally
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm on a first name basis with all
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: of these characters. Okay, Howard how and Howard how to kistory,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: she chose to have all of her memories of him
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: a race? Okay, but so that happens, But then how
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: would that work? Because she works for him, he is
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: essentially her boss, but all the memories of him she
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: would have had to have a race, so like all
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: of her working knowledge would also have had to have
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: been raised because they work together. So basically, did she
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: have to relearn her job from scratch? I mean, I
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: personally think asking questions like this will break the movie
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: down a little bit because I also just think about,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: like the guy calls it like brain damage essentially, but
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I do think about that. I'm like, this would never work.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: There's no like, once you really start to think about
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: how this would work, it just can't because you're just
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: gonna have random gaps and you're just missing very important
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: pieces of but questions. You would have this memory of
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: working there only when he's not there, which was you
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: would think, would leave huge gaps in her memory of
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: how to do her job. Also, like other people would, Yeah,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo, he'd be like, this seems really messed up,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Like why is this? Yeah, you're I think you're very right.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I think she probably a question. Yeah, she must have
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: gotten everything erased and then they just had to retrain
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: her on her job, be like this is your first day. Meanwhile,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: she's actually been there for like two years. Where I
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: let the movie gas light me a little bit on
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: that one the same because the second you find out
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: in that scene where is one of the only scenes
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: where two women appear in the same scene where Kristen
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Dunce is chase Howard's wife's car because she sees them together.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: She knows they've been together. We don't know that yet,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and then Mark Ruffalo leans on the horn to be like, yikes, boss,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: get out of there. But then I'm like, oh, well,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: then he would have to know. He would have to
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: know there's no way, no, he he must know his
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: wife obviously, but then he saw them kissing. But then
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: if he's worked there for so long and she's worked there,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: he and Elijah Wood would have to know, like there's
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: no because everyone gets some letters, and who would have
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: done because he's the main technician. Yeah, I feel like
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Howard would have been able to kind of like he
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: could get around. Yeah, I get around some of the
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: normal stuff. That's true. Maybe this is this a good
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: point to bring up in a SMR video? I really like,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: is there any good point there? Excuse you? There's a
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: great a SMR Requests video. She's one of my favorite
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: A smartists. That is a role play of you getting
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: your brain wiped by this company. It is like one
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: of the coolest, one of my favorite a SMR videos ever.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: It's just well done a SMR but it's called remember
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: It's Okay to forget Memory eraser roleplay that has a
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: ton of I think the last time I watched Eternal
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Sunshine was because I just watched this a SMR video.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: She's clearly one of her favorite movies. And she wipes
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: your memories. You've in theory brought all these and she
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: has all these objects that she taps on. It's an
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: a SMR video and she's like, this is your excess
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: coffee mug and then she taps on it for like
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: four minutes and it's a really good one. That's great. Yeah,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: great theme, strong brand. I love that. Oh. I wanted
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: to also how you said how Mary chose to have
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: this procedure done. I do also feel like when you
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: finally do listen to Mary's tape, Mary listening to her
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: own tape, She's like, I can't do this and she
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: starts crying. Also a moment where I'm like, God, what
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: a great actress. Um Chris and Dons underappreciated. He's incredible
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: in this is great. We've yeah, wow, se Spiderman two,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Margot season three, She's a gift. But yeah, I have
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: found you only hear a very short snippet and she
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: starts kind of like being like you can't do this
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: and starts breaking down, and You're like, this is clearly
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: a coercive situation that she was like really didn't want
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: to actually do, but because she's younger and so in
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: love with this doctor, she lets it happen to herself.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: And I find that to be like heartbreaking, lay sad,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: and that's so common in that scenario where like she's
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: his subordinate. Yeah, it's power much older. Yeah. Yeah, and
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: he's doing it. I'm sure to take herself marriage, yeah, exactly,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: because his wife knows about this affair, and it seems
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: like and this is getting several layers deeper than the movie,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: you know, has time to explain. But probably they're like, well,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: here's how we'll fix it for our marriage is we'll
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: just have this young woman that'll help. I totally, I
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: totally forgot about that large And then it's her action
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: that prompts the end of the movie, which is she
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: goes full of sage. Yeah, she's a leaker. She's a leaker.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: She's a little snug. Well look out, Chris. She pulls
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: out the tampacs and elite. She's free blading information kind
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: of free bleeding data. Right now, there's wat me hold
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: on too. Let's not forget about free bleading. Coming back
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: for a second. I think so I think I misunderstood.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: She doesn't choose to have this procedure done. He kind
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: of does it. I think she I think she said, yeah,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: she says yes to it, but I think it's just
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: a coercive Okay, I didn't pick up what it's. That's
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: what it seems like, But there's really only a snippet
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: where she's she's like, we agreed to it, blah blah blah,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and he says like, you know, we agreed to this,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't. She breaks down crying, and
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, she doesn't really want to do this,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: but he's essentially because you you have to if you
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: want to. I mean, and it might even be like
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: if you want to continue working here, because it sounds like,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: because we find out about her, she's also, in addition
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to like having a crush on this man, she's also
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: very interested in the work they're doing. So it sounds
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: like she probably wanted to stay working there. It sounds
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: like she had greater aspirations and that the field blah
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: blah blah. Yeah, it's a very complicated situation when you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: think about it. It's kind of like when I was
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: in college and and uh, handsome Dan was my supervisor
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: and my crush, but also I really loved public Radio,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: but also I mostly wanted to just be around handsome Dan. Yeah.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Also it never happened. I'm so sorry, Thank you so much.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I we don't spend that much time with Mary, but
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I think that she is similarly an interesting and well
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: developed character as Clementine. Like I said, we don't we
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: don't see as much of her, and we don't get
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: to know her nearly as well, But I think the
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: movie does take enough care with her to like to
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: just develop her beyond like a very one dimensional. Yeah.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: You even see her in multiple environments where she's like
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: really buttoned up, and they do a really good job
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: of like very subtle. Oh my god, there's so many
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: like little detail things that I was picking up on
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: this last watch. But it's like there's a lot of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: just very like subtle things that she does. You see
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: her buttoned up in the office environment, and her like
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: kind of hovering over the doctor, and like anytime he
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: touches her shoulder, she like really leans into it. And
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: then when she's hanging out with Mark Ruffalo, she's like
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: looks kind of like rocker chic and she's like drinking
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: and really hanging out and so and but then you
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: also like hear her like trying to develop her mind.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: And she's very passionate about this work. So she loves quote. Yeah,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: she loves quote. Such a twenty one year old girl
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: thing to be like, I've got quotes. Tumbler, she's got
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a tumbler. Pinterest, she's got it, she's pinning, She's totally
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: she's free blading. Yeah, her character is very interesting. The
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: last thing, oh, this is the last thing that it's acknowledged.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: I just sort of kissed the mic a little bit
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: gross is the mind funk of when like Clementine was
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: sort of playing Joel's mom and then was in a
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: memory like a friend her mom, Mom, you still want
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: to suck me? Right? It was like just a fun
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: mommy issue moment. Yeah, she does flash her underwear, um,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: which I'm not totally sure how I feel about that.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I did motivated, and but it's also like, yeah, there
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: are definitely moments like that in the film where you're like, oh,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: that's a little well, there's a moment where Clementine calls
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Joel a homophobic slur. Good not good, But also it
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: was two. Yeah, there's things have changed, one of the
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: few moments that does not hold up. Similarly, later on
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: in the movie, Joel is explaining to Clementine. He's telling her, oh,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I'm living with someone else, and she asks, oh, male
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: or female, and he goes female, female, Like how dare
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: you assume that I might be living and cohabitating romantically
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: with a man, which also doesn't hold up the classics honestly.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: So here's what I think, though, is like, I think
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: that does hold up. Not that it's like good, but
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: it is like that is how people. It is representative
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: of the I think those people still yeah, a sort
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: of representative of the character yea as well, where he
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: is uptight, not accepting of new things or people and
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: sort of like I could ease. I mean, and it's
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: not explored in anyway, but it's like I could see
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: this guy in two thousand three being homophobic, Yeah, you know,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: at least casually homeless. Yeah, yeah, not even like in
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: an overway. I just think I think those are things
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: where it's like, those are just accurate depictions of how
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: people can view the world and themselves, and that's like
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: a natural reaction. Yeah, people will still to this day
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: say the R word. But sometimes they'll comment on it
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, what I say that.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: But it's just like like you grow up in the times,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: you grow up and it's hard to let grow of
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: certain things. Yeah, we all have a lot of work
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: to do, and that's true. Fine lards, this movie hold
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: up for me, I agree. Yeah, it's note a movie
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: that necessarily you watch and you're like, wow, this movie
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: is so empowering for women because it's not written by
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: a woman. It's not direc to buy a woman. One
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: of the main characters as a woman, but she's like
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the secondary character, also very white, very straight worth right,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: as most movies are. Yeah, but it is seen through
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the eyes of a man, and so you can't really
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: it's like seen through this lens. So you're like, well,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: if it has to be empowering to women, then you're
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: kind of that's not the purpose of it. Essentially, it's
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: just to like help an neurotic man. Well if we're
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: if yeah, I mean if that way, it's just sort
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: of the Outour problem that we come up against a
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: time and time again is that we can't necessarily knock
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kaufman for plugging himself into a story or you know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: like otors will very frequently in a way cast themselves
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: as the lead, where most Charlie Coffman movies revolve around
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: a middle aged ish white guy because that's what Charlie
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Kaufman is literally in the movie adaptation The Yeah, and
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: these are great movies, but it's it just comes down to, like, Okay,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: that's fine, these are good movies. We can't be upset
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: with Charlie Coffin for putting himself and reflecting his own
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: experience as to an extent. But it just means that
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: other people need to be given opportunities so that everyone
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: is able to see themselves in the greater landscape. So
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: there's also no excuse that every I think every character
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: is a white person. Yeah, they're like, yeah, there's no
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: excuse for that, but there are very few characters in
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the film. Yeah, yeah, there's mostly white guys. Anyways, shall
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: we discuss whether or not the movie passes the Bactel tests? Yeah? So,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I uh, I was curious about what you guys had
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: to say because I was looking at it very closely
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: and I was like, well, there's only a kind scenes
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: in which two female characters interact. One of them is
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Clementine as Mrs Hamlin Roles mom's friend. Yeah, it's confusing,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: and his mom is also there. We hardly see her
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: on screen. We hear her voice quite a bit more
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: than we see her, and she's like talking past Clementine,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: she's not really talking to her. Yeah. Well, there's a
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: few moments where she's like, Oh, I'm gonna go stir
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: with the soup and get a salad bowl. Can you
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: keep an eye on jewel? So Clementine's like sure, and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: then she's like, he just likes to be near me.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Later she comes back and she's talking about string beans
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: and she's like, is he okay? Well washed them? And
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: then later someone's talking about a cocktail. I think this movie,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: in spite of while we could argue that passes if
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think it does, it's really hard to tell.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: But then so, but you wouldn't count when Kirsten Dunce's
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: voiceover is speaking to Clementine before, does that happen? Yeah,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: it happens. It's weird. But she's in the car and
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: she opens up the letter and hereson Dunce is like,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: and she's not talking about a relationship or a man.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: She's just not talking about man. She's talking about the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: company and what they've done and to do right by it.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: But then but because it's a letter, she's not like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: really directly, he is not responding back right now. It's
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: so crazy because I'm like, I'm like grasping a straws
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm like that, I'm like that is this is
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: the one time I'm hearing like two female voices like
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: actually like saying staces. That's like one of them against
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: each other. That's like unfortunate about this movie because and
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: then there's a scene where Mary and Howard's wife are
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: in the same scene, but they're talking about Howard. They're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: talking about but does not pass. So I want to
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: throw myself out a window. It makes me frustrated because
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: there are crazy yeah, like, there are opportunities for this
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: to happen, and it simply doesn't mm hmm. Frustrating. I
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: think we could argue that the memory scene with the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: mom and the friend passes on a technicality, but I
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: would say, because we're in a man's memory, I know
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: that's what's also crazy, and everything is technically through. Yeah,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: males perspective, right, that's also not really misses Hamlin, but
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: does that matter? And then also like the whole context
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: of their conversation is like we have to make sure
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: jewels near me because he always likes to be nearest mom.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: And they hardly have any interaction where they're we actually
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: see them on screen talking and the things that they
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: are talking about that arna man are as we often
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: notice on the podcasting Cooking. Yeah, very domestic things. Yeah,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say as are our definition of the test evolves.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: For me, it does not pass. I would agree with that. Yeah,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't. It doesn't feel you could you you
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: can make the argument, but for me, it doesn't pass.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Which because there's no mean, mean, full interaction between two
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: women in this movie, right, maybe that's something that we
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: should because to figure out, like what is our definition
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: of it, because so many horrible movies pass it on
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: technicalities that are really frustrating. So maybe it's maybe the
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: word meaningful is like just like a meaningful interaction between
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: two women that isn't about a man, or like something
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: that plot the name caveat, like the two characters have
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: to be important enough that we would know their names.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Is an example of like are they meaningful enough characters
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: like and then yeah, I think we could add the
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: caveat is it a meaningful conversation that is important to
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: the story, and like the progression of the plot, don't
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: you Also, this is like totally different thing. But I
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: just often think about male writers of that era who
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: do really good work, but they're just going to be
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: a nately sexist. They're not going to be creating worlds
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: where women are the focus. It's they think of the
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: world a male perspective and they're so eased to that.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: So it's I just I feel I feel like that
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: is a hard place to You're you're rarely going to
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: see someone breaking out of that. Still a lot of
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: work to be done. Let's write the movie on ourn't
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: of women. I'm going to give it. This was a
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: tricky one because while Clementine is a very well developed character,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: although it is through the lens of like how Joel
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: sees her in his memory, so it's already kind of
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: like skewed a little bit. She is the one who
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: comes up with the idea to be like, hey, what
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: if you hide me in your other memories or like
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: hide me in your subconscious and it's like, wow, that's
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: a really great idea. It's her idea, So that's cool
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: that at least she has given something like that. But yet,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: despite her being well developed, I think it's going to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: get like a three a half from me. Is that
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: too high? Is that too low? Because yeah, she's well developed.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: But I don't watch this and think like, wow, how
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I feel so empowered as a woman, or like I
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: do think it's a good example of a depiction of
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: a hetero relationship that is very white and very straight
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: in the sense that she is well developed enough that
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: we at least understand why these two characters like each other.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: But I think it holds up. I think it's a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: good script. I think it's a good story. Yeah, I
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: don't know. Three point five nipples is just what's are
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: you giving your nips too? I'm giving my nips to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: to to Clementine, one to Mary, and then a half
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: nipple to m Carrie, who we do not talk about
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: at all, but she is. She's friends with Joel, like
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: she's in a relationship they would cross. Exhausted, She's exhausted
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: and yeah, half nipple for her, just because we didn't
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: get to talk about her. I'm going to give it four.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: I'll docket one for the inclusion stuff that we talked
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: about that there are certainly in a movie that takes
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: place in New York. Again, it's just like, oh, the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: whitest New York you've ever seen, like the New York
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: only existing movies and for the few two thousand and
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: four elements it has um. And also just like because
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: the ratio of significant female characters versus significant male characters,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's like I can think of four
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: very significant men two women. Yeah, you've got Clementine and Mary,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: and you've got Howard Patrick, Mark Rufflo, whose name I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: truly do not know, but only because I'm in love
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: with him as Mark Rufflo and Joel So so the
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: ratio bad, but I mean, I think that the way like,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily looking to feel empowered as a woman
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: watching this movie. I'm just but this movie makes me
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: feel seen in ways that I wouldn't feel most times
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: watching a movie. And is it partially because I'm a
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: white head old lady. Sure, but for this movie, it's
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: like I can connect with it so much, and I
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: do feel seen by it, and I want that for everyone.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: You know, everyone should have a movie they can watch
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: and feel seen. But I just I think Clementine is
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: such an interesting character who is very like layered and
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: everything we've discussed basically um, but it's cool to see
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: that trope commented upon in such an overt way, broken
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: down to the point where it's like, yes, some women
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: do act like this, but it is a mask for
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: something else, and it's a mask you come by honestly,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: because it's sort of like put upon you, as like, okay,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: well here is a way I can act in order
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: to seem more pleasing to the male case anyways, for
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: from me two to Climb two to Mark Ruffalo four nips, okay,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: what do you? What say you? I would give it
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: also for nipples. It's pretty much for very similar reasons.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I think that although Clementine is simultaneously is like a
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: very flawed character, I think she's portrayed very accurately. You
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: see her in like many different ways. And as a
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: woman viewing this film, I often see films or television
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and I feel like women are like misunderstood, misrepresented or
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: treated like objects or disrespectfully and it doesn't really feel
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: like that is the female purpose in this movie, which
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: is really nice. Um, And like Jamie said, it makes
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: as a woman, makes me feel like heard and paid
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: attention to and cared for. And yeah, also like Kirsten
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Dunn's character and the wife's character and David Cross's wife,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: that character Carrie, all those people, you see them struggling,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: which I think is a really nice thing to see
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: because instead of struggling, oftentimes you see women being like
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: a pain in the ass. And to see women's struggle
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: is that is something that makes you feel like you're
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: coming from a place of understanding. And also they're all
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: just like so fucking hot. They're also hot, Oh god,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: everyone is very except for Elijah Wood, who I will
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: say again looks like ship in this movie looks and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: and also his characters terrible. So I don't feel that's Yeah,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: so I'll give one nipple to each woman. Yea, Kate,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here in town. Yeah,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: where can we find you on social medes? Wow? Um,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: you can follow at Good Good Comedy. That's on Twitter,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, on Facebook, and then me personally, I'm I
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: don't really use social media that much. But my name
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: is Kate Banford, so just you know at Kate band
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: and Kate Banford and if you're in if you're ever
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: in Philly A good yeah, the best, it's the best.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: It's wonderful. We try to be very representative as well.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: You do a great job. You can follow the betel
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Cast on social media. You can give us five dollars
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: a month or more just to say just because, but
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: also on our Matreon because that will enable you to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: get to bonus episodes of the Packetel Cast every single month.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: You can also buy our merch online. Other than that, Jamie,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know that I will never
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: erase any memories of you. I'll never erase you either.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, love you, Love you alright. Bye,